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Britain's Best Garden Photographer Clive Nichols
139 Plays15 days ago
World-renowned garden photographer Clive Nichols joins Mykal Hoare in the Lodge for a thoughtful conversation about photographing gardens at their most beautiful. Having captured some of the world’s finest and most private gardens, including HRH King Charles III’s garden at Birkhall, Clive reflects on a career spent observing gardens at their most fleeting and atmospheric.
Together, they explore light, patience, and atmosphere in garden photography, alongside practical insights for gardeners and photographers looking to capture gardens with clarity and restraint.
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Transcript
Introduction to Gardening and Photography
00:00:07
Speaker
Step into the gardener's lodge with me, Michael Haw. Let's explore the fascinating worlds of gardening, nature and ecology through conversations with experts, thought leaders, passionate enthusiasts, and of course, some real good friends.
00:00:23
Speaker
All from the cozy heart of the lodge. Come on in.
Meet Clive Nichols: A Renowned Photographer
00:00:28
Speaker
Clive Nichols is a world-renowned photographer, and arguably Britain's best. His work over a 45-year career has been featured in hundreds of books, countless magazines, he has even authored his own books. He has photographed some of the most prestigious and important gardens of modern times, no less for the King of England himself.
00:00:50
Speaker
I met Clive at his home in the English countryside on a chilly winter's morning, met by the warmth of a rolling fire and his hospitality. But before we dive deep into this chat, of course, we need to ask Clive our six rapid-fire questions.
00:01:05
Speaker
Are you ready? Trammy. Favourite plant? ah Tulip. Favourite way to connect with nature? Go out in the morning first thing into a garden.
00:01:16
Speaker
What is the most beautiful garden or natural landscape that you have visited or I suppose photographed? Crikey. Maybe Corfu. Now you're not a gardener, but favorite garden tool.
00:01:28
Speaker
Favorite garden tool? Or even let's, we'll cheat for you. What's your favorite tool of the trade? No, I can do favourite garden tool. Perfect. Yeah, the um horror is it Horry Horry? Yes, that's mine too. I mean, I'm not a big gardener. If you could be one, plant or animal?
00:01:43
Speaker
ah Plant. Good. Most people say animal, but I disagree. If you are stuck and looking for the most reliable research on a plant, maybe that you photographed, where do you go? For reliable? Probably ah RHS. Yeah. Website, yeah.
Clive's Journey from Geography to Photography
00:02:00
Speaker
Clive, I'm fascinated by how you capture gardens. And I'd love to start at the very beginning. okay How did you discover photography? How did you find your career in garden photography?
00:02:12
Speaker
Well, believe it or not, I actually went to Reading University. and studied human geography there. And it was whilst I was there actually that a friend of mine and sort of introduced me to photography, like black and white photography. So I started off by taking pictures of my friends and things like that and then sending them off to the university processing house where they would come back as contact sheets. yeah and And I didn't know anything about photography at all so that's how I first picked it up.
00:02:42
Speaker
And when I left university, um i wanted to travel. So i I actually worked in a restaurant whilst I was at university in Reading. And so I actually learnt to chef quite well.
00:02:54
Speaker
And I travelled quite a lot during the holidays. And whilst all the other students, all my all my mates were sort of, um you know, going home, having the sort of summer off, I'd be travelling around Europe inter-railing and things like that, so which I enjoyed a lot, yeah.
00:03:10
Speaker
But then when I left university, i I thought I wanted to
Finding a Niche in Garden Photography
00:03:13
Speaker
be a chef, and so I worked for an Italian restaurant called Nino's in Reading. which in the 1980s was a sort of for very trendy restaurant. And I became head chef there, actually. Oh, right. So I'm quite good at cooking. um But it nearly killed me. you know, the hours were ridiculous. My only day off was a Sunday and I'd sort of fall asleep, you know. Oh, I bet, yeah. It's unforgiving, isn't it My girlfriend at the time, Jane, who I ah married in the end, and she had a great job working for Mars.
00:03:43
Speaker
Okay. The company Mars. And she was earning really good money. And she said to me, look, you've got to do something. That's more interesting than this. and And I said, well, I love doing travel, you know, travel photography and writing. So she said, go on, do it. I'll sort of support you, which was great at the time. Fantastic. Yeah.
00:04:00
Speaker
So I started doing travel photography, actually. And I got some great trips in the in the early nineteen eighty s I went to Hong Kong, I went to the Falkland Islands. Okay. Yeah, for free trips, you know press trips, which was great fun, them but I couldn't make any money.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I thought, well, if I'm going to do this full time, I need to do something that I'm going to, you know, make a living out of. yeah And one day I walked into Smith's, W.H. Smith's. Yeah. And I started looking through the magazines, I thought, oh...
00:04:28
Speaker
Gardening, there's a lot of gardening magazines. but Nearly all the the sort of um women's magazines and things had you know gardening sections in them. I thought, okay, I'll give that a go. you know i haven't Because I never trained in lighting or anything like that. And in and in the 1980s, when it was film, you were working with film, not digital. You couldn't really do things like interiors unless you knew how to do lighting. you know It was all very complicated. So i I'd only ever worked outside. So I thought, well, i' I've got to do something that's outdoor. This gardening looks quite quite interesting.
00:05:02
Speaker
um And it went from there. And I didn't i didn't know the difference between ah you know a tulip or a rose. At that point, I had no interest in flowers at all. You clearly had like an eye for detail and for lighting. and Yeah, I mean, I'd done a lot of landscape photography, which I think helped a lot. So i i think I understood, you know, a lot about lighting. Yes, outdoor lighting for sure.
00:05:23
Speaker
And yeah,
Inspirations and Self-Taught Success
00:05:24
Speaker
it went from there. really So what were your early inspirations? Then obviously you picked up those magazines. Were there photographers or um certain magazines you were particularly inspired by? Yeah, I mean, I was always interested in things like National Geographic, you know I used to look the photos in there, the quality um of of the pictures in that were were amazing.
00:05:42
Speaker
And um that's that's kind of, that was my inspiration really initially. And i also was very interested in some of the great landscape photographers. So there's some amazing American photographers like Ansel Adams and Tom Till.
00:05:57
Speaker
They were working on sort of large format, you know, 10 by 8 plate cameras, 5 by 4 plate cameras. And they were very precise sort of compositions that they they would take. And so I studied their their work and was very inspired by that.
00:06:11
Speaker
So did you actually study photography as an art form at university? No, not at all. yes I'm completely self taught. Wow. And you've built this like illustrious career, which is pretty amazing.
00:06:25
Speaker
Do you have a sunny space in your garden that you just don't know what to do with? Well, I have a treat for you. A free perennial garden design that you can download right now.
00:06:37
Speaker
It's full of colour and year-round interest, and the best part is that it's pollinator and wildlife-attracting. It's been designed with the yeah UK climate in mind, but I know I've got listeners across the globe. So if you're in the southern states of Australia or the northern part of the US, this is the design for you.
00:06:57
Speaker
You can download your free perennial garden design, as well as my free Australian native garden design, at the link in the description.
Collaborations with Country Life Magazine
00:07:06
Speaker
um You know, you've photographed some incredible private spaces. The King's private garden in Scotland, for yeah example. cool yeah yeah Yeah, beautiful. um how did you How do you find working in intimate spaces like that?
00:07:18
Speaker
I don't have a problem with them, actually. I mean, you know i love it I love it, actually. mean, I would too, do you? Yeah. Yeah, um no I find it very very easy actually because you know because I've been doing it now for what, forty probably 45 years now I've been shooting gardens. So you know, garden spaces are very much my thing um and it's sort of my happy place. you know yeah I very quickly get into the sort of rhythm of it, and the swing of it really. king's garden How did you get into that position where you were asked to photograph That was for Country Life. Okay. Yeah, Country Life is a great magazine. I've been working for them for, you know, many years now.
00:07:55
Speaker
I'm kind of their main sort of garden photographer, which is great because I get, you know, get a lot of good commissions from them. Absolutely. So that's the sort of entree into these places. Yeah, otherwise, you you know, you've got no chance. so Yeah, yeah. yeah yes um So yeah, I love working for for Country Life. Yeah. So obviously in that respect, you you're somewhat of a commercial photographer. um How do you balance working for a client and your own artistic vision of of a photograph? Well, usually amazingly, actually, most clients, including magazines and and private clients, they usually let me just do my thing, you know Great. Yeah, they sort of trust me to to come up with with the goods, really, which is great.
00:08:39
Speaker
and and And I essentially I take pictures that I like, you know, I'm not really taking them to please somebody else. You know, I'm taking the pictures that I love. It really is kind of a It just happens that they seem to. They're good and they like them as well. The clients seem to like them as well. Yeah, I'm very much sort of, you know, if I like it, I'll take it. If I don't like it, I probably won't take the shot of something. Yeah, unless
Techniques and Tips for Garden Photography
00:09:02
Speaker
I'm specifically sort of asked to do it. What's been your favourite garden that you've shot?
00:09:06
Speaker
Oh my goodness, so many. So many. A lot of them are in my book there, The Brilliant English Gardens. Fantastic book. So, um some some personal favourites are Petterfers, actually, which is in my village, um which was made by Gina Price. It's literally about 500 yards from my front door. Wow.
00:09:26
Speaker
Unfortunately, Gina died a couple of years ago, but she was a great plantswoman, and her garden's amazing, and she... she would just call me and go, you know, Clive, the garden's looking amazing, and come round now sort of thing. And I'd shoot off round there.
00:09:38
Speaker
um So that's that's a beauty. There's another one called Morton Hall, which is near Redditch, um which is a ah beautiful garden. got amazing tulips. They do amazing tulip festival. um And Anna, the the owner, she commissions me a lot to to shoot shoot the gardens there. And she's got a very good Instagram as well, actually.
00:09:57
Speaker
Morton Hall. There's another garden called
The Art of Capturing Gardens
00:10:00
Speaker
Silver Street Farm in Devon, which is owned by Alistair Cameron. He's a got a brilliant garden designer and he's commissioned me a lot to shoot his is garden down there. And what do you love about the gardens? Is it plant species? Is it the way that it's positioned? Is it the composition of the plants? Like what actually like draws you to a good It's kind of a, it's several things really. um You know, it's it's the hardscaping, so the sort of bones of the garden. yeah um
00:10:30
Speaker
If they're good, you know, then the planting should be should be good as well. So looking at really strong sort of bones to a garden. and then beautiful planting as well. And that's really what attracts me. And also the light. you know Some gardens get amazing light. So some gardens you know will get light at sunrise when you've got low-angled sun hitting the scene.
00:10:53
Speaker
And that's when you get all these beautiful atmospheric sort of shots. But some gardens are so enclosed by woodland or or buildings that they actually don't get very good light. and And those are the most tricky gardens to shoot, actually, because...
00:11:06
Speaker
you have to photograph those in sort of a softer light, you know, so maybe on a cloudy day. Yeah. yeah so in And you won't get the same atmosphere in those gardens as you will when you when you're getting early or late sunlight streaming into a garden.
00:11:21
Speaker
So when you first walk into a garden, what are you noticing before you pick up the camera? Are you are you looking for certain things? Like what's your process for when you first get in the door or the gate?
00:11:32
Speaker
No, no, absolutely. um ah Usually I do a rec of the garden. so So I'll sort of sometimes even run around garden ah quickly. and And what I'll do is I'll pick up views, you know, so I'll think, well, that's a great shot there, you know, along that path or whatever. And is this the morning of?
00:11:48
Speaker
Could be in the morning, could be in the evening, could be the middle of the day. you know yeah Sometimes you're going blind into a garden where you've literally got to just take pictures straight away. Other times you can go before you need to, you know days before or whatever, and have a good recce round.
00:12:04
Speaker
But basically I'm looking at um compositions that that i I can take and then I'm basically sort of waiting for the right light when I do actually take them. You know, I'm waiting for the right light to hit that scene or that plant.
00:12:18
Speaker
um Yeah, so i'm pretty i I have a pretty good idea of what I'm going to shoot before I actually take the picture. You're actually known for the light in your work, we using light very well in your work. yeah. Oh, it's absolutely vital. mean, the light is the most, is is the key to all photography, isn't it? But in gardens, it's certainly the the essential ingredient, yeah. And I think a lot of people misread the light. It's very difficult to get the light right, actually.
00:12:44
Speaker
um First of all, you've got to find a garden that looks amazing. And then when you found that garden, and you've got to be there at the right time, which, for example, in the summer can be very early, you know, 4.30 in the morning, for example. So sometimes I'll get up at two o'clock in the morning and drive, you know, 50 miles, 100 miles to a garden to get there for dawn.
00:13:08
Speaker
goodness man So I'm checking the weather all the time. I'm checking like BBC and weather forecast, you know Met Office forecast. And when I see you know clear skies and five mile an hour winds, for example, that will trigger me to go out and shoot.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. So you must cancel a fair bit then. all the time yeah and sort of switching dates you know so you fix a date say you like the 20th of May or something and then you know it's raining so you can't do anything you have to just wait and then go the day that's good yeah yeah yeah it's a nightmare actually yeah it bit of a nightmare yeah and I was just thinking about the poor Hort team at the gardens going oh yeah no it's looking good now though and yeah absolutely yeah you've got to be in the you know you've got to be in the right place at the right time yeah that's the secret really
00:13:55
Speaker
So, yeah you know, your photos feel absolutely alive and enchanting. How much of the crew is a creative process versus like careful planning? I think the
Photography Equipment and Techniques
00:14:07
Speaker
planning is very important. Yeah. um Because if you get the weather right, you know, and you get it and and then you're in the right place at the right time, then, you know, you're going to get some great shots. But obviously you've got to you've got to read the light as well.
00:14:22
Speaker
So you've got to be aware of what it's doing and how you can um exploit that. Any tips on how to read the light? Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I do a lot is I shoot towards the sunlight. You know, a lot of the photo may magazines tell you to put the sun behind you. Yes. So that it's not coming into your lens, you know, you're not getting flare.
00:14:41
Speaker
Whereas actually, that's quite can be very sort of flat light. Whereas if you're shooting towards the sunlight, and you get shadows coming towards you. And that adds to the three dimensionality of the of the of the image. And probably the illumination of the plants itself the flowers. Yeah, also backlights plants and makes them come alive, yeah. So they look like they're lit with a light bulb internally. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:04
Speaker
Stunning. But you've got to be careful because if if the sun's coming straight into your lens, you'll get flare. And the way to avoid that actually is to use a lens hood. So all my all my lenses have got lens hoods on them. Okay. So they act as a sort of blinker like that and sort of stop that. That's a good tip. Yeah, stop the sunlight coming yeah. And you can also use a black, like a piece of black card to sort of, um as ah what's called a flag, where you you're using that to block the sun, you know. Okay. So if you're pointing, say, at you, the sun's, say, top left, you know, to the left of me, I can put a...
00:15:40
Speaker
a black piece of card there and that will block the sun from hitting the front of the lens. And that will stop that lens flare kind of flicking through the photo. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, sometimes that can be very creative, of course. Yeah, of course, yeah. I mean, probably back in the mid-2000s, that was all the rage, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. There's definitely sort of fans in there, for sure, yeah. How do you find working with trends do you just completely throw that out the window and do your own thing? I don't really do. Yeah, I just do what I do, you know.
00:16:07
Speaker
That's working. Yeah, no, I don't really follow trends, to be honest. Once you've finally, once you've seen the light, you've composed your image, what's your next steps? Well then i you know i I take the photo, obviously, yeah um and I'll check it on the back of my camera now because i've got a digital camera, Canon.
00:16:27
Speaker
um And the the camera that I use is actually a 59 megapixel camera, so it's very, very high-res images that I get off it. um But I always check the image on the back of my camera and look at the histogram as a ah check to see what make sure I haven't overexposed or massively sort underexposed the shot.
00:16:46
Speaker
And then when I'm happy with that, I'll i'll move on to the to the next one. you know And I'll also check check for sharpness on the back of my ah camera as well. you know So I'll blow the image up and just make sure it's pretty sharp. yeah yeah yeah Yeah, because you can zoom in nicely now. Do gardens reveal themselves slowly do you kind of like stalk through the garden, like prey almost looking for the right light, changing your kind of positions at a whim because something's changed within the environment? Yeah, I would say arm more control I'm like a predator going through the garden. Like a tiger. Yeah, definitely like a tiger, you know, sneaking around, they looking thinking where the light's going to come next, you know, getting in position.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah, I use a
Best Times for Garden Photography
00:17:29
Speaker
tripod a lot as well, which is a good advice for for people, you know. um So often my camera is on my tripod, so it's solid. yeah So there's no movement to the camera. So if the if the subject is very still, um which it often is first thing in the morning, you know, often the wind is very, very low. Yes.
00:17:47
Speaker
In those sort of situations, once my camera's on the tripod, I can shoot at any aperture because it doesn't matter about the shutter speed because things will still be recorded nice and sharp. um So I'm using my tripod, which is a very big, heavy tripod, actually. So it keeps me fit doing that. Yeah, but I'll sneak around the garden and...
00:18:07
Speaker
My approach normally is to take the the wider angle shots, you know, so the big garden scenes first, and then when I'm sort of happy I've got those, I'll then probably move in and do, you know, close-ups of flowers and things like that. Detail kind of thing, yeah. But I'll try and capture the whole garden if I can.
00:18:24
Speaker
and And quite often, on a sunny morning, for example, in the summer, you you've probably only got an hour you know we call it the golden hour yes you've probably only got an hour of good light before the sun is too strong so you've got to work quite fast you know youve got one hour maybe to capture a garden and and then maybe again in the evening you know the last hour hour and a half in the evening Would you say you prefer the evening or the morning?
00:18:46
Speaker
I think the mornings are best, particularly in in the UK because you get the the dew drops, you know the cobwebs. There's more atmosphere in the morning. The light can still be beautiful in the evening, you get that lovely rich light, but but usually the the moisture levels are...
00:19:00
Speaker
have gone by the evening. evaporated. Yeah. I mean, at this time of year, you know, when you get a frost like this morning, that's the time to be out. Beautiful, yeah. Sorry, I've probably kept you from your subject. Well, I i actually didn't go out this morning. It caught me unawares, actually. Yeah, right. Yeah, because it was supposed to be quite well, it? woke up this morning about seven, looked out and thought, crikey, you know It's frosty, yeah. There was no sort of warning. us But, you know, within in the winter, frost, yeah, it's fantastic. What's your favourite season to shoot? I love now. i love autumn. I love spring. my my
00:19:30
Speaker
least favourite season is the summer. Why is that? Because it's get up very, very early. Yeah, true. Yeah. yeah so Quite often I'll sleep in the middle of the day, you know. I'll have to have a sleep in the middle of the day because I've been up so early for so many days on the trot.
00:19:44
Speaker
jo say Whereas winter and autumn and early spring, you you can sleep for a bit longer. You don't have to be in a garden quite so. You know, the the the dawn, the sunrise now is about ten past eight in the UK.
00:19:57
Speaker
Whereas in the summer, like I said, it can be 4.30, you know. It swings quite a lot compared to, you know, in Australia, we've got quite a kind of condensed yeah yeah light. den I haven't actually taken any pictures. I've been to Australia a couple of times yeah to see my daughter in Sydney, but I haven't yet got around to photographing. Oh, are you should. The light is... It looks a bit harsh.
00:20:16
Speaker
It is harsh. A lot of my listeners are home gardeners themselves or maybe... Horticulturalists taking photos of their, you know, clients' gardens. Yeah. what ah What would your advice be for someone trying to get, like, that perfect image?
00:20:30
Speaker
Wake up early and get into the garden early on a sunny day, i would say. Like at dawn, yeah. Perfect. And that's not easy, of course, because you've got to get the the approval of the client. Yeah. um But if you've got your own garden, there's no excuse, really, is there? set your alarm exactly ah i mean having your own garden must be fantastic know you've got a really good garden because you can literally wait for the perfect day and then get up and take take pictures on that's it again i would say take pictures early or late if you're going to take them in the daytime wait for a soft overcast sort of light yeah don't shoot in in bright sunlight because in bright sunlight you get sort of really burnt out highlights and dark black shadows you don't really see any detail particularly of plants you know if you're shooting borders and things like that so try and shoot those first thing in the morning when you've got low raking light or last thing in the evening or when it's ah a bit of a softer cloudier day and and try and choose days when there's not too much wind as well
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah, true. Because wind can be so annoying. It's probably one of the most annoying things for a garden photographer. Yeah, is the wind lose all the focus on the subject. things just blow around
Gardening Services and Coaching
00:21:39
Speaker
until, you know.
00:21:40
Speaker
Just chasing those still moments between gusts. Exactly. Yep. 2026 is upon us and I have limited spaces open for my garden coaching and consultation sessions.
00:21:52
Speaker
Whether you're looking for help with plant identification, advice on care and maintenance, or tips for improving your soil and plant nutrition, I'm here to help. As a garden designer, I'll help you think creatively about your outdoor space, offering tools and ideas to give you a fresh perspective on your garden projects.
00:22:13
Speaker
My coaching and consultation sessions can happen right in your garden if you live in the yeah UK, or online if you're anywhere else in the world. My goal is to meet you where you are and support your unique garden journey.
00:22:28
Speaker
Whether you're just starting out, looking to refine your skills, or simply need a second opinion, or someone just to bounce ideas off, you have found your space.
00:22:39
Speaker
Head to the link in this episode description or shoot me an email at hello at thegardenerslodge.co.uk.
00:22:49
Speaker
So editing must play
Transition to Digital Photography
00:22:50
Speaker
a role in your photography, as with all photography. How much of what you do happens through the lens versus in post?
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah, I would say um i do a little bit of post-production, but I try to minimise it. So I shoot um RAW files. I don't know if you know the difference between RAW files and JPEGs. Maybe explain. Yeah, so a JPEG, if you if you're photographing with JPEG setting, ah you take the picture and then you've got the JPEG. It's a finished photo.
00:23:24
Speaker
with With a RAW file, you take the picture and the the the RAW file is huge, actually. It's really big file, but it doesn't actually look very good. Yeah, so you have to open it in ah in in what's called, you know, in a camera raw window, and then you have to do some basic work on it. So I add sort of a little bit of vibrancy, a bit of saturation.
00:23:43
Speaker
I'll also check the colour temperature, ah which you can change on a RAW file. So there's so many... you know You can add sharpness, you can you can add contrast, lots of things like that. So you sort of tweak the picture up yeah to make it look as as you want it. sweet But I try and keep keep my images looking very natural, yeah which again I think is what people quite like on Instagram you know because they're not they're not messed too much with it. I don't like put false skies in and things like that. yeah yeah And i think I think you can see the difference. You can see that it's a naturally shot image. So I try and make it
00:24:18
Speaker
as it was when I shot it basically. yeah yeah When I'm happy with that I'll then put it into Photoshop and maybe do a little bit more work but yeah not not too much. you know you're You're using Adobe Lightroom. I don't use Lightroom I use Photoshop. Photoshop, photoshop yeah perfect. Yeah it's the same. You know you can do the exactly the same stuff. Better capabilities.
00:24:37
Speaker
Well, no, I probably should use Lightroom. I don't know how to. But I've got a techie guy called Stephen, and he he's always trying to get get me onto your like Lightroom. He's like, you've got to learn this. It's easy. And I'm like, no, I'm happy to stay. Because I'm not very technical, actually, um and I'm self-taught. I have to learn everything by rote Well, that's an interesting point, actually. I can't in intuitively learn something. I have to be shown it. Absolutely, sort of, yeah, step by step. Practical learning. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about this before when you were talking about how you started on film. You obviously have bridged, your career's bridged from film photography right through to digital photography. Exactly. What was that process like? Horrible. Yeah. Yeah, when I mean, when digital first came out, it was literally horrible. I nearly gave up.
00:25:22
Speaker
Really? Yeah, because everybody was pushing for for digital and and the quality was terrible. Yeah. So, you know, the shots that I was taking on film were way better than the digital ones. I mean, the first camera that I had that Canon actually gave me was ah was a 10 megapixel camera. It was awful. God.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. It's worse than an iPhone now, you know. yeah Yeah, much worse. And um the and the software wasn't ah wasn't really good enough. But now, of course, it's amazing. you know So eventually yeah the quality got better and better and now it's now it's astonishing.
00:25:54
Speaker
yeah But what film did teach me actually, because it was so expensive on film, it taught me to really compose images carefully. And i think I think that really helps actually to to get great shots. you know So I don't really waste any shots now. I'll i'll take say 100 shots in a garden and probably...
00:26:12
Speaker
throw away only like two or three of them you know really yeah whereas some people take thousands of shots and you know edit edit them out edit them down yeah I'm uh I definitely do that yeah I'm very precise you I'll take a shot and I'll be happy with it and move to the next one this is why you're the professional you know your career has now led you into being the lead judge of the international garden photographer of the year competition the royal horticultural society's garden photographer of the year competition I was before, yeah, not so much. Not now? Not not
Judging and the Impact of AI
00:26:45
Speaker
now, no. What do you see that others miss in photos?
00:26:49
Speaker
Or what don't I see that others see? Yeah, there you go. Well, for IG Potty, I only judge the um the garden scenes, which I think is my thing, really.
00:27:02
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So, um you know, i think I think they trust me to, you know, judge a great a great garden shot, if you like. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What are some common mistakes that you would see within photos through those competitions that you kind of will immediately go, not today, you know? I think, i think the yeah, the misjudgment of light, like you said. Yeah. um You know, they're just not that interesting, maybe quotes quite flat. Yeah.
00:27:29
Speaker
And also probably composition as well, probably not quite there, you know, maybe they'll have it. They've included something in the shot that might detract from that actual image, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing how many shots you see with sort of an ugly bench in the corner or, you know. Oh, true. A sort of tree that's dead or something. Yeah. Yeah, you've got to be very careful, particularly with garden shots. You know, everything's got to be perfect, really. Well, that brings me, I suppose, to a conversation that we had before we started recording about AI. I mean, you obviously wouldn't use AI in your own work, but a lot of photographers would to remove things like the ugly bench or the... Well, I would to do tight little bits, you know. So if there was a label or something, I would get rid of it. Yes. Yeah, I wouldn't be removing benches. It doesn't sit aesthetically with me, though. How do you see AI affecting the photography industry, particularly garden photography industry, moving forward?
00:28:25
Speaker
I don't think it's going to affect sort of magazine photography, you know, or um because I think people want integrity there, you know, they want the they want it shot as it is. So i don't like I can't really see it affecting that. I can see it affecting designers because I think they will use it to show what a garden will look like, you know.
00:28:44
Speaker
I mean, I've seen some amazing renders that... yeah they look almost they almost look too real too real they look too good you know yeah yeah but I'm sure for designers it's a great it would be great it will be a great tool because you can show clients how the garden's going to look but you know if I'm going out photographing somewhere that nobody's ever been you know a lot of the gardens I shoot are private gardens that have never been photographed by anybody so you can't really I don't I don't see how you can AI those and there's no value in doing that anyway no and think so I don't think that's going to change much. When we first came in,
Social Media and Masterclasses
00:29:16
Speaker
um I met Jules, your PA, and she was mentioning, she said she does a lot of your social media and whatnot, and she was mentioning that people just love and your photography, particularly this time of year, and it really like pops off this time of year because people need that connection and are longing for that connection to nature. yeah How important is Instagram and social media to your ah photography business? Very important, yeah. I mean, a lot of the commissions that that I get are come from Instagram, you know. Yeah. Requests from Instagram, yeah, definitely.
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, having having ah a big following, I think, helps a lot, yeah. Yeah, it's so important these days, isn't it? Oh, absolutely, yeah. I think way more than than a good website, for example. Yeah. Well, it's...
00:29:57
Speaker
Based for photography, it's your portfolio, isn't it? Exactly. But we don't do Facebook or anything. We just do Instagram because I can't cope with all that sort of multiple channels. So we literally just do Instagram. And I suppose Instagram is set up for photography. Well, you know, back in the day, it was primarily set for photography. It certainly was to start with, yeah. Yeah. Things have changed a little bit now. Changed a little bit. Changed little bit. Do you find that with your social media that you not chase trends, but, you know,
00:30:33
Speaker
photography has taken a little bit more of a back seat to that quote unquote algorithm. Are you finding that you're now having to kind of reinvent the way that you capture eyeballs on your social media?
00:30:44
Speaker
Well, we don't, I mean, my my numbers have been about, you know, 200,000 around there for for months and months. yeah i don't I don't really care. you what mean? Because I know that people are looking at the the images, you know. Yeah, yeah. I don't really want to get into reels and things like that. No, I mean, don't really It's kind of not appropriate, right? No, no, it's not. I might do some ah sort of how-to, you know, some instructional. Yeah, yeah. You you do masterclasses and talk publicly. So so i'm I'm hopefully doing one in March with um John Massey at Ashwood Garden Nurseries in Worcestershire. And then I'm doing another one for the RHS at Wisley, which always goes down well. That's always a sort
Memorable Projects and Reflections
00:31:24
Speaker
of booked up straight away. Beautiful, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, i enjoy doing the masterclasses, yeah.
00:31:29
Speaker
I've also got an online course as well. Okay. With learning with experts. they they They've got an online course that you can do. So that's quite useful. Listeners can find that through your Instagram or through your website. Through the website, yeah. Or George. 45 years of shoots. Yeah.
00:31:44
Speaker
What has been your ultimate project? What's been your favourite? I think the Burkeall one is pretty close. Yeah. um I was lucky enough to photograph David Beckham's garden earlier this year, which was quite nice. Really? Yeah. Lovely. Yeah.
00:31:58
Speaker
What's he's gotten like? I can't really say. I had to sign an NDA, so I can't really talk about it. So that was for of that was for the family, privately? That was great. That was for Country Life, actually. Okay, cool. It was great fun. um But I love going abroad as well. yeah i mean, I travel with my partner, Annette, and nette and you know we we write photograph and write about gardens in Mallorca and Ibiza, and we've just come back from Morocco, which is fantastic. Oh, lovely.
00:32:24
Speaker
I love photographing there. yeah So we're we're doing a new book called Dream Gardens, actually, which is going to be beautiful. Probably be out either next Christmas or the following spring. I'll look forward to purchasing it. Dream gardens, yeah. most Most of the gardens are in Europe or North Africa. Okay.
00:32:39
Speaker
What has photography taught you about life, patience, time? That's a good question, that's interesting question actually. Well i mean I'm a very sort of um happy person, i'm ah I'm always looking for but beauty, you know um rather than sort of looking at bad things. So gardens are definitely um full of beauty you know and and gorgeousness if you like. yeah So it suits my sort of personality. yeah um And i mean, being in nature is the number one way to stay happy. i mean, I know quite a few sort of billionaires whose gardens I've photographed and all they want to do is what I'm doing, basically. Yeah. You know, they've made all this money. They want to retire. Well, they probably can. They take pictures gardens all around the world. And they probably can, yeah.
00:33:25
Speaker
But yeah, I think, you know I'm lucky. i've got I think I've got the best job in the world, personally. Pretty close to it, yeah. I'd say so. So, yeah, I can't really complain. Is there a dream project that you're just still chasing or a garden that's that's elusive? I don't think there is, but i'd want I would love to shoot in sort of Japan, New Zealand, Australia. You know, those places really, really appeal to me. How much of what you do is ah commission-based, like a magazine will come directly you? Yeah, it's probably half. How much do you offer? Probably half and half.
00:33:53
Speaker
I shoot a lot of ah of gardens on spec, actually. Okay. For magazines, especially, because they they love, you know, gardens. When you... shoot them and then present them to them because it means they don't have to commission them.
00:34:03
Speaker
Exactly. Or think of the idea. giving them the sort of the the perfect solution. yeah So I take a lot of pick of gardens on spec. I'm always planning, you know like at the moment I've got two or three sort of snowdrop gardens that I've got my eye on that I'm talking to and hopefully going to shoot um because I know that I can probably sell those on. you know and then ah And then I'll start looking at, once once I get through that I'll start looking at daffodils and Then I'll be on to Tulip Gardens, you know, so it's like the whole season through.
00:34:33
Speaker
Do you work with
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:34:34
Speaker
a big team? No. No, I tend to work myself. If I travel ah abroad, I go with Annette, my partner. She writes a lot of the stories that I take, which is great. So we can travel together. Right. Which is great fun. That's nice. um Sometimes if it's if it's at a job where the client wants to see the images, you know, whether you need to get them on the laptop whatever, I've got my techie guy, Stephen Johnson. Yes.
00:34:59
Speaker
and he'll come on the shoot with me. i've got I've got a lighting guy as well. If it's, you know complex sort of lighting that's required, he comes along does all the lighting. But generally it's me and the growth the sort of great outdoors. Yeah, nice and kind of freeing almost, not to be kind of weighed down. Yeah, it makes bunch of people following it makes it a lot easier. yeah And not everybody wants to get... You know, I've i've had assistants who said, you know, Can I come along? And then you you go, yeah, great. you only get up at two o'clock in the morning? and ah Maybe not. you know this is just the
00:35:30
Speaker
It's hard to get people to get up that early. I mean, it's not easy. i went up When I first started, I really struggled. You would. Getting up early in the morning. ah Looking at your books and your body of work, what do you hope that people take away when they see your photographs?
00:35:45
Speaker
I hope it sort of thrills them, you know, makes them feel good, basically. I mean, a lot of people have said with the brilliant English gardens that they, you know, they sit down in the winter months and just go through it and sort of dream of going into those gardens or, you know, it's an escapism, I think.
00:36:02
Speaker
yeah Yeah, absolutely. i think people use it as ah as a thing to liftp lift their spirits. Yeah. Clive, thank you so much for your time. that was great. It's been as lovely. Thank you for having me to your beautiful home. The village you live in is absolutely beautiful. It's incredible.
00:36:19
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining me today. If you like the show, don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button. Tell a friend or two, or maybe even give the show five-star rating and a review.
00:36:29
Speaker
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