Transcript
Speaker: Mariano Rivera and Carlos Beltran, a whole bunch of other famous ballplayers. And they all knew you like better than anybody else. They were just coming up to you. and i was like Yeah, Mo is a brother. He's not a friend. We're brothers.
Speaker: It's a blessing for me to have seen him grow. I spent 10 or 12 years every other week in his $10 million dollar mansion doing a Bible study with him.
Speaker: you know Imagine, you know i i used to live in a cardboard box and I'm doing yeah i'm doing a you know Bible study with the greatest relief pitcher ever in the history of baseball. you know I remember five years after we were doing it, I said, Mo, ah say thank you, Jesus. And he said, well, why? I said, you just say it.
Speaker: said, bro, just say it. he so He said, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. I don't get high no more, brother, because I would have robbed you blind. You got some good stuff in here, man. I would have backed up the truck. you Do it.
Speaker: Hey everybody, welcome to The Upgrade. It's only up from here. Pastor Joe here from somewhere in North Brunswick. We got our production team, our ghost writer, Stephen George. We got my son, producer, Joseph Atavai. We got to get the young people in here, you know? But man, I am so excited about our guest today because this is an amazing man of god And we're gonna hear his story about how he left home at an early age, 10 or 11, was living on the streets, hooked on drugs, and somehow he became the chaplain to the New York Yankees.
Speaker: How do I know that? Because he's introduced me to some of the greatest players of all time. Like I got a baseball from Mariano Rivera. I got to meet him. I got to meet Carlos Beltran. I got to meet so many people because he's chaplain Willie.
Speaker: He's got three books. One of them is a study guide. I'm going to let him talk a little bit more about them. I read his first book, It's a New Beginning. And let me tell you something. You had one heck of a new beginning. And he has a study guide for that. And he also has a new book on the other side of fear. I can't write wait to read it.
Speaker: We're going to let you know how you can get these books. But let me just tell you something. This is a mighty man of God. He's a friend. He's a brother. He speaks to our church every year. And if they could have him every week, they'd kick me out. because because he's funny but he's powerful very powerful his testimony change your life so we're gonna get into this we we'll tell you about the books a little more later but just as an opening tell us a little bit about your early life
Speaker: Yeah, well, you know I'm a Brooklyn boy from Bedford-Stuyvesant, Williamsburg. Grew up with a family of six, four girls, three boys. Excuse me, seven.
Speaker: ah Four girls, three boys. you know my My father was ah an alcoholic and extremely abusive man. He beat my mom every day, beat us every day, be drunk.
Speaker: And so, you know, I would watch this man beat my mother and I would say, I think I maybe he was about five or six years old, I would say, you know, one day I'm gonna grow up, I'm gonna take care of this dude you know? And I remember saying it at five, at six, at seven, at eight.
Speaker: At 9, at 10, and around 11 years old, 10 and a half, 11 years old, he came in drunk. He picked up a broom, and I dropped him, you know, and and he ran out.
Speaker: And for me, that was the happiest day of my life, and that he ran out. For those that don't understand, what does it mean that you dropped him? yeah I put my fist in his face. I know what it means. And if I could have done something else, I would have. um And he left and and like I said, it was the happiest day of my life. But three days later, my mother said to me, ah we got a little issue, little problem here. Your father's coming back under one condition, you gotta go.
Speaker: And so my parents drew me in the street, abandoned me. and had live abandoned buildings. had live in cardboard boxes and ah being a cardboard box in the middle night someone trying to rape me and I gotta defend myself and and I started a sniffing glue, I started sniffing cabona, I started smoking pot, started sniffing heroin, then heroin and cocaine, speedballs and that became my life. ah On drugs, off drugs, on drugs, off drugs and and that became my journey.
Speaker: o How were you doing inside? Like, what were what were you thinking? What was going through your mind? You know, in the beginning, I was scared, you know, but the streets have a way of, know, heartening you up because, you know there an old saying i was when I was growing up, only the strong survives. So you learn how to survive or you die.
Speaker: And so i had to learn how to survive. So I did whatever I had to do, you know, to survive. um You know, I had to steal, had to... You know, do what I had to do.
Speaker: You know, i'll leave it I'll leave that at that. you know And you know I get it. Yeah, yeah. We sort of at one point grew up in sort of the same area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to buy drugs from the same guy. yeah Oh, but we're not going to mention. Yeah, we're not going to mention. Yeah. Real quickly, how I met Chaplain Willie. We were speaking both speaking at a men's conference. Yeah.
Speaker: And you know, you think you have a testimony, you know, and I have a testimony. And the next thing you know, i heard your testimony. I was like, what? It was so amazing. And from that time, I was just drawn to you. and And I asked you to come speak at our church, and you did. And we were smaller then, but you said you loved the church. One of the churches love coming to, you know, ah it's such such a diverse church.
Speaker: ah People are friendly. people Most of all, people love the Lord. You know, and if people love the Lord, it draws me. So i I look forward to every single year coming and speaking here. and we look forward to having you. You're amazing. um And you even give some grace to some of our leaders who are Met fans. Yeah, yeah, we're praying for them. you know i had brought back some oil from Israel to anoint them. Pull that demon out of him. It's amazing. It's amazing when Chaplain Willie comes to our church and all the Mets fans come out and, you know, he gives them some grace and he could kill them. And he does. Oh, wait. Can we see that World Series ring real quick before forget? Look at that, ladies and gentlemen. 27 diamonds for 27 championships. Mets have nothing like this.
Speaker: So we met at that conference. You came and spoke, and then we became friends, and you even helped us out with our rehab center. You almost really became a part of the rehab center that I had. But we were friends. yeah You have a beautiful wife, great family. um Yeah, tell us real quick about what's going Yeah, well, yeah i'm married fifty seven years oh my you know,
Speaker: You know who was 57 years old? I don't know if I would stay with me 57 years, but my wife, when we get to heaven, she'll live in a mansion. I'll live in the projects. You know, I have three three daughters. My daughter Venus is 53.
Speaker: My daughter Yvette is 51. And then God had a great sense of humor. After 15 years, we had another girl that she's 36. That's Krista. We have a ah granddaughter, Julie, that's 21. She's in a five-year master's program.
Speaker: A grandson that's 17. He's a junior in high school. And my son-in-law that's just retired from the NYPD. Wow. You got a lot going on. And, you know, so we met and I met your beautiful wife and you're right. She's going to have a mansion. Live at the project. I love that. I'll probably be there with you. But um we met at the conference and then we we were friends and you were speaking at the church. And I don't know how, but some you invited me to a Brooklyn Nets game. Yeah.
Speaker: And I got to speak to the players. Yeah. Which was like a big thrill for me, everybody. Yeah, wow. And we got to sit there and watch Giannis Antetokounmpo destroy the Nets. yeah and at one point, we were in the locker room, and Jason Kidd comes walking by.
Speaker: says, Chaplain Willie. And Chaplain Willie stopped him right there. and We got to lay hands on Jason Kidd. Yeah, Jason's a friend. um you know Yes, I'm dropping names. Yeah, Jason's good brother. you know Good friendships.
Speaker: but we got to lay in. I was like, I've been telling that story for so long. I mean, that was so exciting. We were we were walking around the TV crews and everything. and we were walking on the floor in Brooklyn. I was like, yes. I had a little juice. I had a little juice. You had a lot of juice.
Speaker: I remember when the players' girlfriends walked in you said, you see those ladies walking by? That's not the wives. That's the girlfriends, but that's another thing. But it was really exciting. And then you invited me to an auction and it was Mariano Rivera and Carlos Beltran, a whole bunch of other the famous ballplayers.
Speaker: And they all knew you like better than anybody else. They were just coming up to you and I was like... Yeah, Mo is a brother. He's not a friend. We're brothers. You know, ah he's a pastor now. Him and his wife pastor a church in New Rochelle, a beautiful ah church. So he's now and a past a pastor with his wife. He pastor this wonderful church and it's um it's a blessing for me to have seen him grow. I spent 10 or 12 years every other week in his $10 million dollar mansion doing a Bible study with him.
Speaker: you know Imagine, you know i i used to live in a cardboard box and I'm doing yeah i'm doing a you know Bible study with the greatest relief pitcher ever in the history of baseball. you know I remember five years after we were doing it, I said, Mo, ah say thank you, Jesus. And he said, well, why? I said, you just say it.
Speaker: said, bro, just say it. he so He said, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. I don't get high no more, brother, because I would have robbed you blind. You got some good stuff in here, man. I would have backed up the truck. you know do du I would have emptied you out. You better say thank you, Jesus. you know Japlen, before we even get to that, so Tell us about your transformation from the streets and how you came to Christ or even, i mean, not even to become the chaplain to the Yankees. We'll get to that. But just yeah from the streets, from that low, low rock bottom place. Yeah. You know, I was on drugs, off drugs, got married, you know, had two kids and,
Speaker: And I was working in a print shop. That's what I did for living. and I worked for brokerage houses. Back then they had implants. you know I work worked for Oppenheimer at the time. And it was about 60, 65 employees, all black and Hispanic. And one day they hired a new supervisor, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, German, white boy.
Speaker: And i said, we're going to eat this boy up, man. But his name is Otto Lang and Otto walked up to me and shook my hand and told me Jesus loved me, opened up his Bible and he read me a verse. And i said, man, this this is a like crazy white boy coming with that junk over here. you know yeah I mean, in the beginning it was kind of amusing, but after a while, you know you get a little tired of that junk.
Speaker: so ah I took his Bible and I and i took it to a glue machine. I glued his Bible. have And I said, this dude is not going to open the Bible today. And he came and he took the Bible. He cut all the glue off, came to me, shook my hand, told me Jesus loved me, read me a verse. Long story short, I was strung out. He left. He gave me his number. I called him up. He invited me to church.
Speaker: and So that Sunday day I convinced my wife, let's go to church in Staten Island. So we went to church. heard the preacher preach, but left something inside of me, told me, go back. Back then you had service in the morning and service at night. I went that night. I sat all the way in the back of the church and I and i made a deal with God.
Speaker: I said, God, Jesus, whatever your name is, personally, I think you're a hustle, but I ain't got nothing to lose, man. You know, my wife's about to leave me. I'm strung out. If you could help me get this habit off my back and my wife doesn't leave, nobody will ever serve you like me. That's 53 years ago.
Speaker: You know? And I have never one time touched any kind of drug since, ah you know, ah started going to church. I couldn't read. I couldn't write. Was it that night that it happened?
Speaker: Yeah, it was that night. Miraculous. Yeah, and you know, it's funny because on on the way home, i had to pull over because I was like overwhelmed. Now I know was the Holy Spirit. Back then, I didn't know what it was. You know, I couldn't even drive. I had to pull over and and wait like maybe half an hour to to compose myself.
Speaker: You know, and I'm saying, what the heck is this, man? You know, that I can't even drive. ah Like I said, now I know what now i know what it is. ah And I went home, I told my wife, and and her her response was, yeah, right. you know i don't know where you copped those drugs, but they were good. yeah But she came to church with me on Wednesday, this midweek service. She came to church with me, and she gave her life to the Lord.
Speaker: So we started this journey with God, but I couldn't read, I couldn't write, I never went to school, so we had a retired teacher, but three years tutored me, taught me how to read and write. you know I took the GD test six times.
Speaker: I finally passed it, then I did my theology. theological studies through Moody Bible Institute, corresponded. So you did go. Yeah. And and and here I am, you know, ah ah and God just started opening up different doors. I started teaching Sunday school, elementary, junior high, high college and career, ah prison ministry. I, you know I always was involved in something in my church. And I tell people all the time, you know, everybody wants to get blessed. You know, if I were to say to an audience of a thousand who wants to get blessed, every hand would go up. Right.
Speaker: But I was, I constantly say to them, your blessing is in your service. You hear that? yeah Your blessing is in your service. And you know, if you're not serving God, you know,
Speaker: Why would God bless you? You know, you know, we come to the Lord to go about God's business, not our business. I can see the people at Grace Church signing up to serve right now. Let's go. Yeah, you know, and and so, and so, you know, I always was involved with something in the church.
Speaker: um Then I started doing um street basketball, you know, the most dangerous projects playing against each other. We saw it. dozens of kids. So all this was outreaches of your church? All outreaches, you know. And then then one day I went to ah went to a conference in Long Island and I met this guy called George McGovern from Athletes in Action, Ministry of Former Campus Crusade, now called Crew. And he invited me to do a chapel with the Yankees. I said, yeah.
Speaker: And went and I go in the locker room and there's Derek Jeter and there's Paul O'Neill. And here's the truth. and I was never ah you know crazy about baseball. and I'm a basketball guy.
Speaker: So I didn't even know who they were. you know, and did a chapel. And then he asked me, you know, would I consider coming and being assistant? So I became his assistant. um And around five years later, there was no chapel in Spanish.
Speaker: So I asked, could we do chapel in Spanish? They said, you started. So I went to Mariano and said, Mo, no one's going to say no to you. So we started chaplain Spanish. And today, every single minor league and major league team has chaplain Spanish. Wow. I'm the first Hispanic senior chaplain in major league baseball.
Speaker: Wow. And, you know, God just started moving. And then George McGovern was the chaplain to the Nets, and he couldn't do it no more, so he turned it over to me. And...
Speaker: Here I am now with Jason Kidd and Alonzo Mourning and with Byron Scott, and and and i love basketball. I'm traveling with the team. I'm on their plane, you know. Listen, see listen it's a it's it's a Jesus thing.
Speaker: I'm not that smart. I couldn't have put this together if I tried. you know If I tried, um you know I couldn't read and now I'm writing books. So know I wrote my first book, you know It's in the Beginning, and this is my life story.
Speaker: know and And then I wrote a study guide to it. Awesome. And then I just recently wrote this book, On the Other Side of Fear. And this book here is about all my past pains growing up.
Speaker: You know, when you come to the Lord, you come with this luggage full of pain. Okay. And going to have to open up that suitcase start getting rid of that's something that junk.
Speaker: But what happens is that while you're walking with the Lord, there's new pains. Amen. You know? And so what happens to people is they they they take their old pains and their new pains and they forget about God.
Speaker: and then walk away from the Lord, and then walk away from the church. And what I'm saying in this book here... Guys, you're hearing this, right? Does our church need this? Yes, we need that message. What I'm saying in this book here, and I did not want to write it, is that um that no matter what pain I've had, and I've had many pains, I used to eat out of garbage cans.
Speaker: ah Regardless what pains I've had, never walked away from God. And I never walked away from the church because the church is the place where I get restored.
Speaker: The church is the place where people of God come around me, lay hands on me, pray for me, look out for me. You know? and So there are ah things in this book that are deep.
Speaker: You know, I didn't want to write it. The God made me, made me write it. You know, I have a daughter, you know, that at 16 told me she's gay, wrecked my world.
Speaker: Can't even tell you how I wrecked my world. And I dealt with it so wrong. And some years later after that she left, she wanted nothing to do with me. i was doing my devotions in the morning and I felt God speak to me.
Speaker: I'm not the type of dude that's always saying God said this, God said that. you know I felt God say to me, you know the issue with with your daughter being gay is between her and me, not her and you.
Speaker: Your issue with her is to love her. I re ah contacted her and you know I don't embrace her lifestyle, but I embrace her. She's my kid and I love her. And so we reconciled our relationship. And so why would I as a pastor want to write that in a book?
Speaker: you know And the issue is also with her being gay, it's what but what would people say about me as a pastor? You know, ah so I had to put my own pride aside, you know, and and and and I asked her, can I write about that? And she said, I know you yeah you're not going to demonize me.
Speaker: And I didn't. Of course. And so we wrote it in the book. So, you know, the journey has been a journey, man. You know, you're going to have past pains. You're going to present pain. But don't walk away from God.
Speaker: Don't walk away from the church and be involved in your church. I used to vacuum the floors. I used to clean the bathrooms. I was always involved in my church. And because of that, I went from a cardboard box to Yankee Stadium. I'm not that smart.
Speaker: On my best day, I couldn't put that together. You know, Alonzo Mourning, you know, one of the great power forwards of of of the NBA came to the Nets. And as we know his story, he had a kidney breakdown, almost died. i was a fan. Yeah, I went to the hospital to visit him and I led him to the Lord and we became good friends. and And he wrote a book and he chapter 10 is about our friendship. Can you imagine? I live in a cardboard box. I'm in a lounge, no morning's book. Only God. Yeah, only God. And so he goes to the Hall of Fame. He invites me and my wife.
Speaker: And in his exception speech, he says, you know, this pastor really led me to Christ. Crazy. Cameras from all over the world. You know, when they won the championship, when miami hit he flew and my wife, and my wife to be there.
Speaker: Only God, man. but But those things happen when you're actively involved in the things of God. and if And if you're in a church, you must be involved in your church.
Speaker: Everyone has gifts and talents, and they have to display them where they worship. now Oh, you are preaching good right now. And so so I'm not saying that, Pastor Joe, because it's you and this is your church. I tell i say this anywhere I go. know. you know it hit the I know how you roll. Here's the great thing about me saying that.
Speaker: When I say that in a church, if people don't like it, I don't care. I'm not on your side. I'm going to leave. I don't care. But you have a way of doing it. People need to hear that, man. Get off your backside, man. Church is not about coming to church on Sunday and that's it.
Speaker: No, church is about you taking your gifts and your talents and demonstrating them in your church, giving to your church so that your church could expand. you know Someone paid a price for you to get there.
Speaker: Amen. you know So you got to participate. Why do you think so many people, when they run into trouble, they run from God? i don't get it yeah ah they they they they're not trusting God to to see them through it. What's faith?
Speaker: Faith is believing what you can't see or believing it's going to happen. I should be dead or dying of AIDS or doing life in jail. And here I am in my 70s, okay? I've been chaplain to the Yankees, the Nets, the Yankees 28 years, the Nets 22 years, the Staten Island Yankees 20 years, the New York Giants seven years. Executive director. Wish I would have known you then. Executive director to Urban Impact 20 13 years, a chaplain to the athletic program for Lions University, a guy that couldn't read, you know, and now campus pass to the Teen Challenge. You know, it's the journey. Tell us a little bit about the now. i I know, but tell everybody else what's going on right now.
Speaker: Well, I'm with Teen Challenge. you know Teen Challenge is is it's called Adult Teen Challenge now. And you have men and women that come of addiction, whether it be alcohol, whether it be drugs, whether it be so you know so ah porno, whatever it may be, homosexuality. And they come into our program for one year. And I want to tell you, ah one of the things that kind of bothered me in ministry was sometimes not seeing the fruit of my labor.
Speaker: In Adult Teen Challenge, New Jersey, in Lebanon, New Jersey, I see... Every day, I see the fruit of my labor. I see men come in wrecked and come out new men, excited for the Lord, connected to a church.
Speaker: They're miracles. They're miracles. know One of the greatest ministries in America and throughout the world is Adult Teen Challenge, amen in my opinion. I've seen it up close. yeah And as a church, we support it, and we get to take part. We don't.
Speaker: personally get to take part, but we know what's going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. you've helped us in the past. Yeah, and listen, at my age, I am fully conscious that the grave's not far.
Speaker: I'm fully conscious of that. But I'm going to die exhausted for God. You know, there's no retiring for me. know I slow down a little bit, you know, you know, i moved to Jersey. And so my wife thought I would slow down a little bit. And I live in Hunterdon County. I live in Clinton, Hunterdon County. And now I'm the chaplain.
Speaker: to the police department of all Hunterdon County. Oh my gosh. You know, I get no tickets. you're not going You know, no tickets. You yesterday, every month, there's a police chief meeting. I'm there. Imagine, I'm in the meeting with 25 police chiefs, the police chief of the district attorney's office, and the number one prosecutor in the meeting, and I'm sitting there, you know?
Speaker: That's awesome. Only God. Only God. and what i'm what what I'm saying to people is, you know, don't make Christianity church on Sunday. It's not Christianity. Christianity is every day.
Speaker: Every day. I moved to Clinton, New Jersey. There's a shop right there. 90% of the cashiers are senior citizens. They all know me. cause they see the ring and I take it off, take a picture.
Speaker: yeah All the old ladies have taken a picture with the ring. One day I lost my keys and I told them I lost my keys. Those ladies searched the whole shop rightte and found my keys you know to my car.
Speaker: yeah I am who I am, whether I'm preaching in your church, Pastor Joe, or I'm in ShopRite. Well, you're preaching in the choir. I know who you are. You know, this this is a life. This is a life, man. and And, you know, God has a journey for every single person.
Speaker: But unfortunately, a lot of people that never get to get to that journey because they think their church is just on Sunday. Right. And it's not get off your backside and serve God.
Speaker: Even if you're vacuuming, even if you're cleaning the bathrooms, whatever it may be, Sunday school, you know, whatever ministry your church is involved in. And this church here, Grace Church, it's crazy what they do for God. You know, it's a place for everybody here, whatever your talent is, because you guys do so much, not only in the building, but a lot out of the building.
Speaker: You got to get with God's program. Amen. Chap, is there any background story from the sports world you could give us, anything? no Yeah, I mean... ah You got a zillion of them. Is there anyone that sticks out with you? I'll tell you one story. right um He's with the Lord, Tim Matumba. We call him Deke.
Speaker: Deke is a dear friend, loves God, no, no, no. you know And so um his bodyguard, Tim, was getting married. Okay, bodyguard Tim was getting married, so he asked me would I come ah and and um and pray. I said, oh, okay. So I went there, went to the church, got there a little early. The pastor was a short little white guy.
Speaker: And I told him, you know, do you know who you're marrying? This is, you know, the Timber's bodyguard. He really didn't know. Anyway, the Timber came with with his with his family, around 50 people, all from Africa. And um he did the ceremony. And and then I got up and i and I prayed. And I stood behind the pastor. Now, you have to understand that in the sports world, there's a lot of joking.
Speaker: There's a lot of joking. So the tembe is sitting right alongside where I am. And so when the pastor pronounced the man and wife, you know, the whole crowd went, oh, it's an African thing, right? He panicked. He went like this. And he said, what's going on? I thought it was a great time for a joke.
Speaker: I said, listen. in In their culture, whoever does the wedding is lunch. That's you, baby. Whatever you do, ah don't run. The tembe hears me, stands up, and goes, and I like white meat. Oh, my gosh. And the guy kind of panicked, man. you know and and and And so i had to call him and apologize. you know I said, brother, look, i I don't know you that well, man. apologize. It was a joke. you know It was a joke. But did you really think they're going to eat you, bro? Come on, man. you know But there's a lot of fun, you know Luis Soho, which i love, he was the jokester. you know But I would have to tell him, brother, i got virgin ears, you gotta keep it clean.
Speaker: You gotta to keep it clean because you can't compromise on who you are because of them. I don't care who you are, I don't care what your position is, I don't care how much money you make, okay? I'm a man of God and you have to respect that. man And that's, that's just, that's just the way it is. You know, I'm not compromising on that because you know, I'm not your boy, you know, same thing in teen challenge. You know, I'm not your boy, I'm your pastor.
Speaker: Okay. You're going to need to respect that. Now I'm not saying that I'm like, you no know, you have, you have to put me on a pedestal. No, no, no, no, no. But you got to respect the position. man You got to respect the position. You know, uh, uh,
Speaker: that's, that's the way it is. But yeah, I had I had a great time, you know, had ah had a great time being sports. Uh, it was, it was a great run. it was a great run, you know, almost 33 years, you know, doing sports ministry. And, uh,
Speaker: And it was time to go, you know, um during the COVID time, I just felt it was time to go. And, you know, my my my my boss, George, used to always tell me, never make it yours.
Speaker: He said it to a point of annoyance. That's good. You know, and that's really I didn't understand it until I left, you know. ah When I felt God was telling me that said I was able to walk away because I never made it mine.
Speaker: You know, I never i never made it mine. It belonged to God. And so a lot of my pastor friends said, you're out of your mind, man. You're with the Yankees, man. I said, it's not mine. That is a great mess. I need to hear that. Yeah, it's God, you know, so I can walk away from it, you know, because it belongs it belongs to the Lord. Amen. That's good stuff. But it was a great ride, you know, and and I'm doing what I'm doing now. But my greatest testimony in life is that I'm married to Nancy.
Speaker: That's my greatest testimony. I'm married to this girl that loves God and loves me and loves her children, her grandchildren. And she's a mighty woman of God. you know ah ah you know And I do everything in my power to protect that. When i used to go to spring training, for 28 years, I went to spring training. I could have stayed in the hotel where the players were. I never did.
Speaker: and i never did. The woman in the lobby, they were too fine, man. Couldn't handle that, man. Oh, no, man. I you know i wasn't about to have to come home and explain to my wife. They've been loyal to me that you know that I i can you know
Speaker: had to do something like that. So I would get in my car and drive an hour and a half to Ocala. I would say my brother. Smart. I would say. I've learned through my walk with God um that you know that you need to use wisdom. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: You know, the Bible says in all you do, use wisdom, you know, and and trust God. Don't trust in the Lord with all your heart. Don't lean on your own understanding and all your ways acknowledge him who direct your path, you know. And so I would walk away. When I was with the Nets, once and we got to the hotel, i would go to my room and never come down.
Speaker: Never came down until next day shoot around. Then I would come down and then or take the bus to the game. But I would never come down because the lobby, lobby was rough. Lobby was rough, man. you know And I could look at you straight in your eye and tell you, Pastor Joe, that in my 33 years, I never fooled around on my wife.
Speaker: For 33 years, never one time. Never one time, man. I would duck it like the plague, man. I wasn't going to dishonor first the Lord, my wife, my children, and my grandchildren.
Speaker: you know My kids probably forgive me, but it will never be be the same again. Too much to lose you know for one day. You've always taught that. You've always talked about so highly of your wife. It's a testimony. She's the love of my life, man. We married 57 years.
Speaker: know she's she's She's the love of my life, man. who My greatest testimony. Listen, as as a put as a Puerto Rican, because I am i am Puerto Rican to the max. you know i I'm puro Puerto Rican. where a big, you know I believe anywhere 50 or 60% of Puerto Rican, you know Hispanic men, they walk away from their family. wow you know My greatest testimony is that you know I'm married to Nancy, 57 years, being Latino, knowing the statistic on Latino, even being Latino. Mo and I are good friends. and And he always says it to me, says,
Speaker: one of the few Latinos I know that's still with his wife, man. you know greatest test that's a phrase that's greatest Greatest testimony. praise. That is testimony. They would watch me. you know They would watch me, man. you know You get to the games, a lot of women did. They would watch me, man. I would see them and I would move away.
Speaker: i I would move away and they would watch me, you know. yeah The greatest testimony is that I'm married to 1957 years. Congratulations, Jeff. Amen, amen. Only through the grace of God, you know. Only through the grace of God. I mean, those those women were fine, you know. i hope to get to them. I'm 38 in, so I hope to get there. So ah we were talking about this earlier. What, if you were back in your 20s, what would you tell yourself?
Speaker: Oh, man. This is for the production guys, you know. Well, they're not. They're not that young. Well, one of them is. I am that young, yes. To be 20 and know what I know now, I'd be a dangerous dude. I love that. I'd be a dangerous dude. I'd be i' be a dangerous guy, man. To be 20. You're dangerous now. and no way Know what I know now. you know Listen, God forbid I fall, I would have no excuse because I know better.
Speaker: I know better. There's nothing i could explain. ah know better. There's no reason for me, you know, to do something like that. You know, I watch myself all the time, all the time, you know.
Speaker: You know, I'm a street dude from Brooklyn, from Buffett-Stuyvesant. moved to Clinton, I'll tell a quick story, I moved to Clinton and I i was in ShopRite shopping and and this guy bumped my car.
Speaker: He bumped it hard and I looked at him, you know, and he said, yeah, No. and I'm going to be honest. Yeah. First thing I did was I looked to the left and there bottle of olive oil. said, I'm going to crack this dude's head. And after that crack his head, I'm going to stomp him with this cart.
Speaker: You know? It's the old Willie wanting to come out. You know? And listen, he doesn't go away. But through the power of the Holy Spirit, I control him. He doesn't control me. And you know and I just felt the Holy Spirit say, keep it moving, man. I looked at the dude. I said, you do you believe in God?
Speaker: He said, why? said, because you should. And I walked away. You know, you know your your Christianity is constantly challenged, especially a guy like me that comes from where I come from, you know, constantly challenged. But I've learned that I have the power through the power of the Holy Spirit to say no. Amen. I'm not going to do that.
Speaker: No, I'm not going to go there. No, I'm not going to speak to her. No, I'm not going to get involved with this. You know, through the power of the Holy Spirit, because the Bible says at the moment of temptation, I will always give you the way out. So if that's true, which it is, then we should learn to tune our ears to the voice of the Spirit of God. And we wouldn't get caught up in half the crap we get caught up in. Amen.
Speaker: you know And so i learned to listen to that, especially being in sports ministry. you know you maooing yeah you know you know my My wife and I were Macy's shopping and I heard someone laugh. if I'm looking and my wife said, what are you looking at? I said, I heard someone laugh. There's 500 people here. you know And then I heard it again and I'm looking around. My wife said, what's wrong with you? I said, I hear. I turned around. It was my daughter.
Speaker: i know her laugh. Imagine how much the Lord knows our voice or how we should know his voice. You know, we should know the voice of the Holy Spirit to keep us out of a lot of trouble, man. is good stuff. You know, and and and a dude like me that came from where I came from, you know, I i could bang up a free lunch, man.
Speaker: When you speak to me, you're preaching right to me, Chatham. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're preaching right to me. I need to hear this stuff. You know, the old Willie doesn't go away. I just got to keep him in check. Amen. I got to keep him in check, man. I can't allow him to rob what God has given me.
Speaker: So what's your plans right now? Like, what do you... You know, ah I'm in my middle 70s, you know. You don't look it. Yeah. You know, I... um ah you know I'm um' with Teen Challenge right now and whatever the Lord has for me, you know if it's to stay in Teen Challenge, it's so be it. If it's to move on to something else, then that's what I'm gonna do. you know I don't believe that God's finished with me yet.
Speaker: no I believe that God has a lot more for me. ah you know I used to run from the cops. Now I'm chaplain to the police department of all of Hunterdon County. Crazy.
Speaker: um But i you know I don't know. I couldn't tell you, Pastor Joe. It's whatever God has for me. If he shows me, I'll do it. you know Whatever it may be, man.
Speaker: you know If he wants me to do prison and ministry again, I'll do it. If he wants me to be part of a church and clean the bathroom, I'll do it. you know, whatever it is, the most dangerous place to be is out of God's will.
Speaker: The most dangerous place in life to be is out of God's will. When you're out of God's will, you're on your own. I'm not the type of guy that could be on his own.
Speaker: That's good stuff. I need guidance. You know, I need guidance from from Christ. And so I am constantly tuning my ear to the voice of God. I get up every morning.
Speaker: I get up at 3.15 in the morning. right you know ah You hear that, Gen Zers, millennials? I get up at 315. I go brush my teeth, take my shower, because you know this just doesn't happen. you know And I go get some coffee. I'm Puerto Rican, so I get some butelo. or some Colombian coffee. I like sit down and i and I have my one year Bible. This is my 28th year reading it. Then I have a devotion. Then I sit on my sofa with my little dog and I have a time of prayer. Then I keep quiet listening to what God wants to say to me because I need direction from God.
Speaker: This is every day. I leave my house at 10 to 5. ah I live 10 minutes away from Teen Challenge. Now, I don't start to 6, but I get there at 5 because I have right now 12 men at the altar at 5 in the morning on their knees praying. That's God.
Speaker: You know, and I don't get paid for that hour, but that's okay. It's the best hour of the day I spent. You know, so I got guys that used to stick people up. They're all tattooed up. They were straight up dope fiends. They're at the altar at five o'clock in the morning crying before God. Right?
Speaker: That's what I want to do. That's amazing. jack That's what I want to do. You see the smile on my face, man? love it, man. I know you said you're not running anymore, but you're running faster than ever right now. Yeah, know. Yeah. What you're doing. Listen, man. Wow. yeah I'm handicapped. You know, I i have chronic pain syndrome.
Speaker: I've had 10 different procedures. None have worked. I'm going to have another one done soon. um But last year, I get, I think, 12 sick days. I think I took one. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: It's my way of kicking the devil in the behind. Amen. And saying, no, bro. I'm not, I'm not, I could go out on disability. I go on disability and get almost my whole check.
Speaker: Why? Stay at home and watch TV. not That's not for me. i I would probably die. Not for me, man. I'm going to die exhausted for the Lord. of Hey, chap, before we came to Christ, somewhat similar, but the way we went after the world, yeah that's the way we go after God.
Speaker: Harder. And I admire you, yes, and harder. Harder. And no quitting and no turning back. No, only punks quit, man. Tell i ain't got no punk in me, man. Punk is not in my DNA. That's right. it i'm you you need You need to grow up and be a man.
Speaker: you know Be a man, man. Stop being a little kid, man. Get off the war with me party and start doing something for God. And watch how God will open up doors that no man could close. Amen. I need you to come in and talk to our men. So we're going to set that up. You know, I mean, here I am. I i lived in a cardboard box and I'm in Yankee Stadium with a press pass walking anywhere I want. Man, I'm not that smart. Only God.
Speaker: Amen. I was a Laker fan my whole life. Diehard Laker fan. Right. used to see Byron Scott shoot the ball. used get because he used to wait hesitate a little bit. And now he's the coach. Right. Right. I'm in the i'm in the the the report the reporter's cafeteria, and I looked at him. said, that's Byron Scott. So I walked up to him. said, are you Byron Scott? says, yeah. He said, who are you? I I'm the chaplain. He said, well, I'm the new coach. He said, come with me.
Speaker: So I went with him to his office. He said, you know, my dad's a pastor, and he told me that when I get here, that God was going to send a man of God to help me get right with God again. I think that's you, right? And Byron and I coached.
Speaker: Bet the friends. Bet the friends, you know? Carlos Beltran did Bible study with six years. You know what? Actually, I saw the change in Byron Scott. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Just from watching him on. Yeah, Byron is my dear buddy, man. You know, but my my dear friend, man. You know, I i love him, you know, like like a brother. and Who would have thought that this guy that lived in a cardboard box would...
Speaker: do this, but God, because I'm special, created by God to do something special for God that I could do. But I'm not the only guy that's special. Everybody's special, created by God to do something special for God that only they could do. But they get out have to get off their butt.
Speaker: oh and' somebody to go Somebody's watching this or listening to this and probably saying, I want that, I want that. So what would be the first thing you would tell them to do?
Speaker: Well, if you don't know a Lord, get saved. Okay. Get saved. That's number one. Number two, plug into a good church. And every time those doors are open, be there.
Speaker: preach Okay. Number three, get involved. Get involved, man. Start. wherever, God will show you direction. God will have you use your gifts and your talents. Matter of fact, you'll learn that you have gifts and talents you never thought you had.
Speaker: You thought you never had. God will bring them out, man. God will bring them out. And then settle out for Jesus. Settle out for him, man. Become a holy roller. Now, I wear that as a badge of honor. You're holy roller. You're right.
Speaker: Wear the badge of honor, man. And God will take you to places you would have never imagined. It may not be Yankee Stadium, but it will be where he has for you. You know, don't don't don't don't go to the grave missing what God has for you. Yes, yes. That's good stuff. Don't go to the grave, man. you know You know, if you're a bus driver, it could be that God wants you to talk to people after they get on the bus. Sell out for Jesus.
Speaker: You know, whatever it may be, you know, God has a plan for you because you're special, created by God to do something special for the Lord that only you could do. No one else could do it. i'm ah um I'm a special dude.
Speaker: Yes, you are Created by God. Extremely special. To do something special that only I could do. And here I am, you know, some 53 years later, sitting in this wonderful, beautiful church with a good friend, Pastor Joe, you know, doing a podcast. Who would have thought?
Speaker: Put the Lord. Put You know the lu you and I were copping dope from cop and both with the same guy, you know?
Speaker: Do you guys have any questions? Yeah, sure. I'll ask one. So, Chaplain, you've been talking a lot this episode about getting plugged in, right? Getting plugged in specifically at a church and how you've got to sell out for God. You've got to be serving God. You've got to be serving in the church. um And that people kind of run away from church and God when life gets hard.
Speaker: But I have a question. This might speak to some of our younger viewers who are staying away from church because of the church. And what I mean by that is, what would you say to those people who are um apprehensive towards serving or getting involved because they feel that they've been hurt in some way by people in the church? Yeah, listen, getting hurt is going to happen.
Speaker: Amen. Whether it be in the church or out of the church, it's going to happen. Okay? Here. Here. Trust the Lord. Trust him. Trust him.
Speaker: He will not hurt you. He will not fail you. He will open up doors that no man could close. Get your eyes off man and put your eyes on Jesus and watch where he'll take you.
Speaker: You know, my eyes are off men. There are men men that I love, you know, and I respect, you know, like you, Pastor Joe. My eyes aren't on you. My aren't on you. Our friendship is because I see Jesus in you.
Speaker: If I didn't see Jesus in you, we wouldn't be friends. We wouldn't be friends. I don't want to be friends with no one that's not in love with Jesus. so I would tell young people, I get it.
Speaker: I get it, man. There's a lot of junk out there. There's a lot of junk out there. But there are also good places like Grace Church that you could come to and you could grow and you could be loved and they'll help you to fan the flame of the gift that's in you.
Speaker: You know, when you fan that flame, poof, boom the dynamite, man. And you'll be shocked what God will do with you. You'll be shocked. Yeah, you got to go to work.
Speaker: Yes, look you know, my my granddaughter is getting her ah master's degrees and, and you know, and that's good, okay? But it's more important that she has more than a master in her walk with God than her walk, than than her her degree.
Speaker: So, you know, trust that there are churches, there are pastors, you know, that do the right thing. And, you know, if they're good, they'll what do you always say at the newcomer's luncheon when we have them?
Speaker: About being offended? Yeah. Oh yeah, you will be offended by someone in our church. In our leadership. And what you do with that will determine your future. Yeah. and i've but i Listen, I've been hurt and spiritually abused.
Speaker: you know and and and and and spiritually abused Okay? Does that mean that I just stopped going to church? I stopped believing in God? You know, guy go on a 22-year character assassination on me because I didn't agree with him on something. Tried to destroy me.
Speaker: You know, a pastor. But did I stop going to church? Did I stop believing in Christ? Did I stop using my gifts? No. That's on him. That's not on me, man. I'm not about to let him rob what God's given me. even going to ask you who it is because he's still around. I wouldn't say anyway. know. I'm not about to let no man rob what God has given me.
Speaker: you know and and and those years were in vain because... the door The Lord just opened up more and more and more doors. You know so you got stronger. Yeah, I got stronger. you know I went to places I would have never imagined you know because I kept my eyes on the... Bless those who are persecuted. Keep your eye on the Lord.
Speaker: Keep your eyes on Lord. And don't put everyone in the same basket because some... people in ministry have heard you doesn't mean that everyone's that way. yeah Okay. Because I travel all over this country speaking and by far, you know, they listen, no matter where you go, there's 10% that stinks. You find 10% doctors that stink. You find 10% mechanics that try to rob you. There's always that 10%, man. But there's always that 90% that will help you get, you know, Frank Sarkoni, there was my, my, my mentor.
Speaker: I owe that man my life. Okay. You know former fireman, retired Italian dude, gentoo, you know, i put him to hell, man. You know, and he just loved me and cared for me. 90% of what comes out of my mouth is Frank Zalconi speaking.
Speaker: What he put in me. I tell young people, man, don't give up. Don't give up, man. Don't give a God wants to use you. He wants to use you. You're special created by God to do something that only you could do. Does that answer your question, guys? Absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely. In fact, I'll even push one more question. um You spoke earlier when you were talking about your story. It was such a such such a visceral image of, you know, being on those trips and, you know, escaping from the hotel, not being in the lobby. And and to me, that's just reminiscent of what Jesus says about, you know, if your eye causes you to sin. goug it out. Not saying physical harm, but like get out of get out of situations that might cause you to stumble. And I know that's a big thing that I've, um just in conversation with like guys in our church and just guys outside, like temptation is such a big thing. I know you've preached about that. I remember one time you preached about that. If you could give specifically targeted at the young men who are listening, who are a lot of our viewers, um some things about temptation to look out for, the devices of Satan and God's help, you know, just something about temptation to help us out, some tips and tricks, you know? Listen, this life is all about choices and choices you make determine where you go.
Speaker: that's yu that's That's the journey. this This whole journey with Jesus is about choices. Okay? But I suggest highly that you read your Bible every day because there's nothing going to go through that the Bible is not going to bail you out on. Amen. And what happens is, you know, this is just my opinion. i find that many people that say they're Christians, I find them to be pulpit Christians.
Speaker: All they know is what they hear from the pulpit. That's all they know. They have no time in God's word. They have no time in the devotion. They don't come to a cell group. They don't come to a men's meeting. They don't come to men's breakfast. And then when all hell breaks loose, they want to blame God. Well, brother, you didn't put nothing in it. So you didn't get nothing out. yeah Okay.
Speaker: What you put in is what you get out. If you don't put, you don't get We're all one bad choice away from going down the rabbit hole. yeah All of us. 53 years in the Lord. okay All it takes is for me to stay in the hotel one day and I'll bang it up, man. right So I got to make my choices. Where did I learn that? I learned that in God's word. 28 years doing the one-year Bible.
Speaker: I learned that in the devotions I do. I learned that in going to prayer meeting. I learned that by fellowshipping with guys like Pastor Joe that loves God and loves his family and loves his 11 grandchildren. Man, that's a lot of grandchildren. know ill Listen, said at my age, I want to leave a legacy behind. amen I want my grandkids and my great-grandkids to say, my granddad, he wasn't a perfect guy, but he loved the Lord.
Speaker: amen He loved Christ, man. He didn't shame our family. He didn't shame my grandmother, man. He didn't shame us. you know He was a man of God. I'm at a point in my life where my mindset is legacy. yeah What do I leave behind?
Speaker: you know And so at at a young age, start building a life to leave a godly legacy. you know if you're If you're single, then don't get involved with an unsaved boy or girl.
Speaker: Right? goodness Because you're equally yoked. You're equally yoked. You know, when when when when athletes are going to the Olympics, they're going to the Olympics to win what? old Gold. No one said silver or bronze. right Right? Because if I'm the coach and you're playing for me and you say, hey, coach, we're going to win a silver medal, I'll No, you're going for gold. Well, for a single person that's a believer, God has gold for you. Amen. How do I know that?
Speaker: This Monday, this Monday, I'm going to be marrying a young man that was in our program six years ago. And I to say to him, Tim, When you leave the program, you're going to be in church, and one day you're gonna be sitting there, and this fine girl is going sit next to you, and that's the gold that God has for you.
Speaker: Well, guess what happened? This girl sat next to me, and he called me up and said, Pastor Willie, what do you have on? Oracle crystal ball? Crystal ball or something, right? Well, guess what? This Monday, I'm going to be marrying him. You know why? Because he got his gold.
Speaker: Why? Listen, if you get silver or bronze, you pick that. God didn't pick that. like that. You picked it. ro good you know Well, it's the same thing with my walk with God. I want to be gold. I don't want to be silver.
Speaker: I don't want to be bronze. I don't want to take 53 years of my life serving God and make this one mistake dito that the devil steal. Everything God gave me.
Speaker: One night at that hotel. Now you're saying, wait, Pastor Willie, you don't have the willpower, man. No, I don't. right yeah I don't. I say that front my wife.
Speaker: I don't. I don't, man. I don't give the devil no leverage on me. None. are i So, you know, I could have had a fight with my wife that night and be been ticked off and then Let down my God, you know, and no, no, no, no. I go to my brother's house, man. I'm safe, man.
Speaker: Choices you make determine where you go. This life is all about choice. Yes, it is. What are you going to choose? I choose Jesus. Amen. I got another question.
Speaker: you're You're talking about how you come to this church. You see that it's very diverse compared to other churches you've been to. Going and speaking in all these different churches, it's a two part question. What do you think a lot of churches are doing right when it comes to Christianity and just getting people to God, getting people to church? And then what do you think it's one thing that you've noticed that a lot of places are doing wrong? Yeah. A lot of churches, you know, like this one here, you know, your aim is to see people who come to the kingdom.
Speaker: Other churches, their aim is to put on a show. Showtime, you know? Showtime, you know, the pastor's here. You know, you very rarely hear Jesus.
Speaker: You the pastor's here. You know, ah that that their aim is more the choir, you know, the the worship. you know No, no. this The church is there to lead people to Christ. Amen. To lead people that are lost to the Lord. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have good worship. I love good worship. You know, this church, worship is off the hook.
Speaker: Okay. You should have, but, but the aim has to be leading people to Christ. Second thing is come out of your building, man. Okay. Because the building is not the church. You're the church.
Speaker: Come out of the building, man, and start doing something for people that are lost. outreach so You know, I get invited to some churches and I, uh, I got invited to this big old church in Miami and I turned it down.
Speaker: I turned it down, man, because I and know what goes on, you know? And yeah, but man, you could probably sell 500, 600 books. Nah, nah, you know, everything I need, I get from God, you know?
Speaker: i've I've learned that, that the he's Jehovah Jireh, my provider, man, you know? And, and, and I'm not going to sell my soul. or some dude, you know, the plain God. not Not me. You got the wrong dude. He invited me four times. Even sent his son.
Speaker: I told his son, no, you tell your father no. No, no, no. Why not? Well, I told him why not. I won't say it here, but I told him why not not. I go in there. I'm not hitching my wagon to that. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: know I'm hitching my wagon to churches that preach Jesus, that preach salvation, that preach kingdom, that preach godly integrity and godly character. Listen, holiness still counts.
Speaker: Amen. It still counts. Now, I'm not pointing painting myself to be no angel. I have no halo in my head. I have no wings in my back. Press the wrong button, you'll meet a different pastor. Old Willie. I'm i'm just saying, you know i'm i'm working you know, I'm working on my salvation, man. But I'm a man of God.
Speaker: i'm um um I'm a man of God. you know with With all my faults, and like I said, there's no halo, man. You know, uh, uh, that's why we love you. I'm a man of God. And, and, you know, uh, uh, I don't want to ever get to the point where you will say to me, pastor, I'm sorry, but I can't invite you back to the church because of ABCDFG. No, no, man. Why?
Speaker: Why? you know Why? you know ah they say to They say that ah the grass is green on the other side. Well, water your side.
Speaker: Water your side and get it green, man. You got some good one-liners. I like that. Water your side, man. you know oh man never heard no I can't handle my i can't handle my wife. I'm go...
Speaker: You know, you know, it's crazy, man. You know, I'm satisfied with with with the woman of my youth, man. You know, you know, I'm in love with her, man. She's my woman. She's mi mujer. Mi mujer, mi jeba.
Speaker: We say in Spanish, you know. No, man, to to dishonor my kids, my grandkids, ah you guys, you know, your son is here. And that, you know, I love like he's my own my own son, that he has to know that Pastor Willie did. Nah, bro.
Speaker: Nah. Not happening. Amen. Not happening. Chap, one final word. We got a lot of Met fans in Grace Church, man. Yeah, I know.
Speaker: It's the only thing about the church that... You're unsure about. We got a lot of Yankee fans. Yeah, I know I'm coming. think it's the 31st. I'm coming to preach here.
Speaker: And so I bought some oil from Israel. And I'm going to be anointing all those Med fans ah because they lost. Yeah. Listen, you can go to our Facebook page and look up the history and see Chaplain Willie preaching here. He's amazing, everybody. We love him. We're going to give you websites where people can find you to get a hold of your books and everything. They can Google Willie Alfonso, and they'll they'll find everything they need to find. you know Like I said, I wrote i wrote this book. It's my life story.
Speaker: here and this is a a Bible guide that comes with it. But everyone, it's not because it's my book because I did not want to write it. The Lord just haunted me for years. Everyone that knows the Lord should read this book because I got some deep stuff in here, man. Some personal things. How how my cousin, female cousin, molested me from four years old to nine years old two, three times a week.
Speaker: She molested me. Pain, you know, ah how I'm handicapped. I have chronic pain syndrome. As I sit here, i have a battery pack. I have a computer chip attached to my nerve. I've had 10 different procedures. None have work.
Speaker: Pain. You get all kind of pain, but you don't walk away from the Lord. man And you don't walk away from the church. I told every believer should to read this book. Again, it's my copy right there. But this this book is it's a must read. It took me, I think, three years before I conceded to God on this book.
Speaker: um But yeah, um and it's funny. i though I couldn't read at one time, and I'd written three books. Only God. Come on, people. Can you read them now? That's what an upgrade is right now. That's what an upgrade is This is breakdown, breakthrough, upgrade stuff.
Speaker: Don't forget to subscribe to this channel and share this podcast. This is going to change some people's lives. And Pastor, can say one last thing? Yes, please. If you know anyone that's addicted and needs help, contact teen Adult Teen Challenge New Jersey, Lebanon, New Jersey. Just go on Facebook, you'll find it.
Speaker: Adult Teen Challenge, Lebanon, New Jersey, male and female. their lives will be changed. to Yes, they will, because we know people. We we send as many as we can. If yeah they come into the church, there's a lot of people struggling. so Man, Chaplain Willie, you are the man. My man.
Speaker: You are the man. The man. If you're in this area, you're looking for a church, this is it. Grace Church in North Carolina. Chaplain Willie, don't forget to share it. It's only up from here, baby.
