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E003 Dyatlov Pass Part 2
2.8k Plays6 years ago
When a group of highly-educated, highly-dedicated friends decided to hike Kholat Syakhl they never would have guessed the turn their well-thought-out plan would take. What the Russian Government would label as death due to "hypothermia" has been in question for some time. What in those mountains could have caused their strange and violent injuries, which could lie beyond human understanding? Part 2 of this episode focuses on the sometimes natural and sometimes outlandish theories used to explain the injuries suffered by the friends.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Dyatlov Pass Incident
00:00:02
Speaker
Last week we analyzed the mysterious deaths and injuries of nine hikers, young adults from the Ural Polytechnical Institute, hoping to take a fun yet relaxing hike together to earn their grade three hiking certification. Maggie and I hope that you joined us then to listen to their story. If you didn't, we urge you to listen to episode two of our podcast and then meet us back here for episode three.
00:00:25
Speaker
If you recall from last week, the group of friends began the trip with smiles, group hugs, and song, yet they left the mountain, not only dead, but with mysterious injuries, broken ribs, odd burns, cracked skulls, missing eyes, and a missing tongue.
00:00:49
Speaker
We know that the members of the group are dead and we even can tell when by the contents of their stomach. But the disparity of injuries and the contradictory evidence leaves us with one question still.
Conspiracy Theories: Government and Extraterrestrial Involvement
00:01:03
Speaker
How?
00:01:05
Speaker
One of the reasons so many conspiracy theories abound is due to a few central reasons, including Maggie, Sasha, the one, I know this question, yeah, giving a false name, the appearance of the bodies at the funeral, which we'll talk about a little bit later, the way the Russian government attempted to control the funeral, the well-known fact that the original lead investigator connected the events that transpired to potential extraterrestrial activity,
00:01:33
Speaker
The knowledge that other hiking groups in the area reported strange orbs in the sky the night the Dyatlov team met their fate, the tent being ripped open from the inside, a makeshift tripod set up inside the tent to capture pictures of something, and the fact that the Dyatlov Pass was promptly shut down for nearly four years after the incident.
00:01:58
Speaker
Today, we're going to jump into the fanciful and the logical. And I hope you're ready because some of the theories might just give you nightmares. Maggie, what I plan on doing today is just working my way through the theories to give you an explanation of how they work, sometimes who proposed the theory itself, sometimes why I think the theory is unlikely, and always a list of more questions.
00:02:25
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams and I'm Maggie Dameron.
Mission Gone Wrong: The KGB Theory
00:02:33
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips of law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:02:42
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page because these families will tell you conversation helps keep their missing family members in the public's eye and help keep their memory alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:03:11
Speaker
Theory number one. Some of the Dyatlov group were undercover KGB agents.
00:03:39
Speaker
In the book Dyatlov Pass by Alexey Rakuten, he proposes that several members of the group, Sasha Kolevitov and Krivonashenko, were KGB agents on a mission who were tasked with taking pictures of particular people. He argues
00:03:56
Speaker
the CIA, and to deliver radioactive samples, hence why some of the articles of clothing from the diet log group tested positive for radiation. Can you remind me again what the KGB stood for?
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's the Committee for State Security. So it's like the Russian equivalent, I guess, of the CIA. Okay. Well, the leading evidence to support this theory is the fact that Sasha, who, remember, was so much older than the rest of the group, joined at the last minute, already fishy, right? Had extensive military experience.
00:04:37
Speaker
and if you remember he was tatted. That's right and he had one of his tattoos was extremely odd and we talked about it last week and it is actually untranslatable in any known language. So there's a lot of
00:04:54
Speaker
Where? Curious, yeah. Curious things surrounding Sasha. Kalevitov, who they also speculate was a KGB member, had worked in a top-secret scientific facility, and Kravanoshenko had worked at a facility that had experienced a nuclear disaster, kind of like this Chernobyl disaster. And those who support this particular theory say that the rest of the group didn't know the true intent. Like, they didn't know that these members of the group were part of the KGB,
00:05:23
Speaker
but that during the mission, whatever mission it was, the CIA members realized that they had been set up and tortured and killed the entire group. Oh my. Now this theory, it would explain why Sasha had that additional camera. Remember that Yuri Yudin was like, I didn't even know he had that because they had a manifest literally of everything that they took and that was one thing that wasn't listed.
00:05:49
Speaker
So that could explain that, but if that's the case, you know, last week we talked about all the injuries that they had, how would a human inflict wounds that were said to be the equivalent of a car accident and thus something a mere human could not inflict? Right, so that to me is a flaw in that theory.
Unlikely Perpetrators: Prisoners and Mansi Natives
00:06:12
Speaker
Well, partly, yes, I agree, but I mean, this does sound,
00:06:16
Speaker
more realistic to me, right? I mean, it could be, right? Because they were tortured and right against no eyes and no tongue. Theory two, they were killed by escaped prisoners near the area where the disaster struck the Dyatlov group. There were prison camps, these Russian prison camps, and this theory is based on the idea that some
00:06:44
Speaker
obviously individuals who were being held captive in those camps had escaped. And the Dyatlov group were like unwitting witnesses to the prison escapees. And the prison escapees were like, uh, now somebody knows that we're escaped. We have to eliminate them, right? We've got to get rid of them. This theory would explain why. So in addition to the extra camera that Iriudin was like, I didn't even know that existed.
00:07:10
Speaker
When they were going through all of the investigators, going through all of the different things that they found in the tent, there was one single item of clothing.
00:07:19
Speaker
that Yuri Yudin was like, I've never seen that before. And that particular piece of clothing that was found, they said, or those who support this theory say, that that was a particular kind of piece of clothing that would be used to wrap around and warm legs and feet. And that that item was often used by the prisoners in those camps.
00:07:43
Speaker
So they're like, is this a sign that this escaped prisoner was there? Unfortunately, this piece of clothing, quote unquote, disappeared. Of course. Of course. So, but even if the theory were true, why would there have been only the footprints outside of the tent of the nine members of the Day Out Long group in the snow? So if it's the KGB or it's an escaped prisoner,
00:08:11
Speaker
I mean, if I'm gonna believe those explanations, if there was another person involved, I feel like there would be more prints as proof. So, when I said that I thought Theory 1 was a little more realistic, I had forgotten that they had counted that there were only nine sets of footprints. Now. So I revoke my statement. But if you're part of the CIA, look, maybe you know how to erase yourself. True. I mean, maybe they... Maybe.
00:08:41
Speaker
or magic? Maybe. Theory three, Maggie, is that they were killed by a Mansi native. This particular theory is based on the idea that the Mansi, remember they're the local indigenous tribe, that they worship nature and that they have these special sanctuaries in nature itself where the Dyatlov nine had perished
00:09:05
Speaker
And remember from our episode last week, the group had been known for singing and had already gotten in trouble for it. And from what I read, the mancy believed that that kind of loud singing was disrespectful to the spirit of nature. Like you need to be quiet and reflect and be respectful. Yep. And so what if the mancy killed them to save or preserve nature's respect? That's this theory.
00:09:33
Speaker
And we know that they were following the marks left on the trees by these. Right, right. So we know that they're in close proximity anyway. And according to most reports, the mancy, because of this close connection with nature, would have been skilled enough to cover their own ski tracks, which could explain why there were only nine sets of footprints. But,
00:09:58
Speaker
If it was a Mansi native, a lot of people question why didn't they loot the tent? Because they found all kinds of money inside the tent and some alcohol. So they were like, you know, this is like currency to the Mansi. So why obviously money, but also the alcohol, why would they not have taken it and traded for that? Like why would they have just like, I don't know, attacked them and then moved on?
00:10:25
Speaker
And they said, why this attack? Because it had literally been decades and decades and decades with no attack by the Nancy people on anyone. And that they have said in interviews, you know, we saw everyone as welcome in nature. So we would never have done something like that. And they were generally seen as like this generous group of people. So I'm not so sure about, I feel like that's one of those things where like,
00:10:54
Speaker
the other right who's not like the majority and so we're like oh they must have done it just because we don't maybe understand their culture as much so we just like project the blame.
00:11:06
Speaker
them. I also don't think that it's weird that they didn't take the money because is there a town close to them where they would like to purchase things? It would be far off. Yeah. Because they even had to take a sled before they started taking the skis. Yeah. On this trip. Yeah. They were out there. Good point. Theory four.
00:11:27
Speaker
There was an avalanche.
Natural Causes: Avalanche and Weather
00:11:29
Speaker
I know this is the most innocent theory and it's at an avalanche or at least the belief that one was about to happen is what drove the group into the snows of Colasiacal. Benjamin Radford has claimed that the tent could have been cut open because a group believed an avalanche was beginning to happen. So maybe high winds and snow and ice breaking off the mountainside had somehow blocked the entrance to the tent.
00:11:57
Speaker
and then fear of being buried alive by an avalanche that pushed them to tear their tent to escape. But
00:12:07
Speaker
If it were an avalanche, I mean it is true the evacuation would have to have been quick and maybe they didn't have time to you know throw their clothes on before getting out of the tent. This particular theory posits that once they got outside the winds were so strong and the conditions right they're trying to escape this potential avalanche they somehow got separated.
00:12:29
Speaker
In fact, here's what Radford wrote concerning his beliefs about the avalanche. Quote, The group woke up in a panic and cut their way out of the tent either because an avalanche covered the entrance to their tent or because they were scared that an avalanche was imminent.
00:12:46
Speaker
better to have a potentially repairable slit in the tent than risk being buried alive in it under tons of snow. They were poorly clothed because they had been sleeping and ran to the safety of the nearby woods where trees would help slow oncoming snow.
00:13:04
Speaker
In the darkness of night, they got separated into two or three groups. One group made a fire, hence the burned hands, while the others tried to return to the tent to recover their clothing, since the danger had apparently passed. But it was too cold, and they all froze to death before they could locate their tent in the darkness.
00:13:23
Speaker
At some point, some of the clothes may have been recovered or swapped from the dead, but at any rate, the group of four, whose bodies was most severely damaged, was caught in an avalanche and buried under the equivalent of 13 feet of snow, more than enough to account for the, quote, compelling natural force the medical examiner described, end quote. So the snow is strong enough to rip your tongue out.
00:13:53
Speaker
Well, he would argue that if we believe this innocent theory, which I'm with you, boo, it's not exciting, but if this were true, that they thought an avalanche was coming, so they, you know, somehow they can't get out the entrance, so they rip their way out of their tent, no time to dress because they don't want to be buried alive in the snow, they take off running, they somehow get separated, they try to build fires
00:14:18
Speaker
to keep themselves warm, right, that the ones who were in the ravine, who had the worst damage to their bodies, that they were somehow caught in an avalanche buried under all kinds of snow, which the pressure would cause, like, you know, crushed chest, cracked ribs, those sorts of things, and that scavenging animals had, like, eaten eyeballs and
00:14:44
Speaker
eating tongues. But then I question, if they're buried under 13 feet of snow, how are the averaging animals getting to them? And some of them weren't poorly dressed. Right. Especially the ones. Right. Right. They had on more clothes than those who were found just sitting by the fire. Right? Remember the two? They're found just in their underwear. So, hmm.
00:15:11
Speaker
Why would some be sleeping in just underwear and others be nearly fully dressed? You're right, avalanche doesn't. And if the fully dressed ones were standing outside of the tent, they could have opened the tent for the people inside to tell them an avalanche was coming and they would not have had to cut the inside of the tent. Very disproven.
Interpersonal Conflict: Love and Chaos
00:15:30
Speaker
Dismissed. Well, even more specifically, some people have said,
00:15:34
Speaker
that they think their deaths were caused by a particular type of avalanche that's referred to as a snow slab. And I bring this up because it'll be important later. When the smaller layer of snow like shifts and the slab slides down the mountain onto the Dyatlov group and of course they left the tent, worried about a second larger avalanche that would follow. But again, we talked about the footprints last time. And they were there. That's right. And here's another way to disprove it. Not only could we find the footprints,
00:16:01
Speaker
But remember, they proved that they were walking slowly. If there's an avalanche coming, you're running. I'm running from my life like I'm not just slowly walking, right? Plus, there was no evidence later that an avalanche had actually occurred because there was no pattern in the snow or debris that would indicate that the avalanche had been the cause of their death. Plus, modern physics
00:16:28
Speaker
show that the terrain of Colasiaco was not conducive to avalanche conditions, it would have been extremely unlikely, especially in this time of year, regardless, something drove them out of the tent. And this next theory proposes a more controllable human element. Theory number five is that there was intergroup fighting.
00:16:55
Speaker
Some argue that the inciting incident what transpired was something more akin to normal young adult behavior, a fight over a love interest. I know. Some speculate that a fight broke out between two of the male members of the group over Zena. After all, she had this charismatic personality. Remember, she's the one the kids were like, oh, don't leave us, Zena. Right? Like begging her to stay.
00:17:20
Speaker
Maggie, I am so proud of you. She was one who was bitten by a viper. Yes, well remember she had that charismatic personality and so I guess it makes sense why, you know, multiple people, multiple men of this group would be drawn to her and that they fell for her. That's how this theory goes.
00:17:38
Speaker
and remember they've been together for a while and you know how I mean I don't know if you know I feel this way when you're around especially someone who you don't you're not married to or like best friends with or you know you're around them all the time and then eventually you're like
00:17:57
Speaker
you're frustrated. Yes. So like this group, you know, they've been with each other for a while now without a break. They're in cramped quarters. And so I'm sure
00:18:09
Speaker
there had been some frustration and some tension. And so what this theory argues is that this could explain the evacuation from the tent that two of the young men had gotten, you know, into this altercation over Zena. It explains why two of them had bruised knuckles akin to fist fighting that we saw on Dyatlov and Rustam. And it could explain the slashes in the side of the tent, you know, if that happened in the scuffle or... I guess someone pulled a knife. Could have.
00:18:38
Speaker
Or even why the entire group, maybe they came outside to break this fight up. But the question is, if that were the case, why would they wander so far away?
00:18:52
Speaker
Why would they have left their coats inside and walked so far from the tent? If you're just coming out to break up a fight, you're not like walking out into sub-zero temperature in your underwear. Yeah, with no shoes on. Right, to try to break them up. You know, I talk to my students with some of the texts that we read about this theory and it's called Attraction of Repulsion. And it's this idea that like,
00:19:16
Speaker
even if you're scared by a horror movie like you still peek through your fingers or like if you see a car accident on the side of the road even though you don't want to see anything bad you still look like there's something in you that like draws you to it and so I think that's a lot
00:19:33
Speaker
to do with teens today and like why they'll watch like fights instead of like stepping in and stopping it but again like if we're to believe this theory that it's this fight and they're you know going out to watch it this attraction of repulsion again like i don't think that people would do that at clear personal risk of their own lives out in the cold
00:19:56
Speaker
That doesn't make any sense to me. No, because I would have been like, hey guys, it's really cold outside. Just come on back to the stove. Come where it's warm. Yeah. Actually Maggie, I am so glad you said that because others argue that it's the stove that drove them out. That's theory number six.
Accidental Mishaps: Stove Malfunction and Hypothermia
00:20:15
Speaker
In the book, A Compelling Unknown Force, the Dyatlov Pass Incident, aka Six Hours to Live by Clark Wilkins,
00:20:24
Speaker
this theory is explained. We discussed in last week's episode how Day Out Love was an inventor. He had created the stove for the group that they used to warm the tent. And we also talked about how strong this stove was because we were super impressed by it, right? That he could create the stove that's so hot. And we talked last week about how the group members would argue about who had to sleep next. I can't imagine that.
00:20:48
Speaker
I'm the one who's like, it's so cold in here when it's like 80 degrees in the house. But they would argue about who had to sleep next to it. So what if something happened to the stove causing it to smoke up the tent? And that's what Wilkins argues is that maybe some of the embers that they put out like right before they were going to bed had reignited.
00:21:11
Speaker
and then that would have completely filled the tent with smoke in mere seconds and then not being able to see where the entrance was. In an attempt to vent the smoke, they had cut the side of the tent to escape and then they weren't in a rush outside because now they had fresh air, right? So then that would explain why the footprints. Exactly.
00:21:35
Speaker
He also argues that smoke inhalation could have caused some of the injuries that we saw in some of the bodies like blood around the mouth of some of the group and I asked Rodney about that and I was like hey can smoke inhalation like you know cause like and he was like well yeah I mean it could you know depending on how much. I feel like it would have to be a long
00:21:56
Speaker
like you have to be doing that for a while. I think so. Before, right, not a few seconds before. Otherwise I would think you would just cough and move on. Yeah. But I feel like this theory is easily dismissed because again, if they're getting outside to get fresh air from the smoke,
00:22:14
Speaker
Why would they have gone so far from their tent to get the fresh air, again barely clothed, when the same fresh air they could have gotten when they're immediately outside the tent? So again like that doesn't make any sense to me why you would go into the dangers of the cold.
00:22:31
Speaker
do we have any theory or evidence that maybe there was like a small fire because weren't some of their clothing like it was burnt yes and that is another part some people argue with Wilkins theory is that maybe when those embers reignited like it wasn't just smoke that it was fire and they had to like maybe again but why would you go so far right and if your tent's on fire you would run
00:22:56
Speaker
Right? I mean, I would think and they would have seen evidence of it when the investigators are coming and they discovered the tent and they said nothing. Well, I guess I didn't even think about this until just now. They didn't even say anything about smoke damage because I would think that there would be some evidence of smoke where they would smell it, right? But there's also no evidence of a fire inside it. So there's nothing like, oh, the tent is charred. Now we know what happened. Nothing like that.
00:23:25
Speaker
I know you're not gonna like this theory either, Maggie, but the dangers of the cold themselves are another theory. That's theory number seven, just straight up hypothermia. You know, how they were all listed that they died despite their eyeballs were ripped out and their tongues were chopped off. Hypothermia! Hello! Well, we joked last week about all of those rulings from the medical examiner as being the cause of death as hypothermia, but apparently one effect of hypothermia is something called paradoxical undressing.
00:23:55
Speaker
And I read it could happen to as many as 25% of hypothermia victims. So when hypothermia is setting in, your hypothalamus for all intents and purposes malfunctions and your body temperature feels like it's rising even though in reality it's dropping and you feel so hot that you just start taking your clothes off. It's getting hot in here.
00:24:18
Speaker
Take a look at clothes. I can identify with this theory, not that I've ever been close to hypothermia, but because one and only time that I went skiing. What happened? Well, I stayed on the bunny slope for a really long time because I just, it did not come naturally to me. And then finally, Anthony talked me into the green. Is that the next level, I guess? I don't know. Sure.
00:24:41
Speaker
And so like I'm going down the slope and I started going really fast and I got scared and I fell and I had on this big like fuzzy brown coat and I didn't know how to stand up on the skis and I just like started flapping back and forth and I looked like a whale. And then I just took the skis off and walked down and I was sweaty by the time I got to the bottom. So there we go. Similar thing with hypothyroidism.
00:25:07
Speaker
Clearly, this is what happened to them. Exactly. They were flailing around. Like whales. And then they had to take their clothes off. Yeah. So, well, here's my other problem with this theory, though. And that is, why would they feel hypothermia in their tent? Because where was their clothing left?
00:25:28
Speaker
in the tent which would mean if you believe this paradoxical undressing right that you're feeling so hot even though you're not that you take your clothes off that would mean that they were feeling the effects of hypothermia in the tent and we know that the stove was hot and it was still there though the stove yep so
00:25:49
Speaker
Again, it doesn't make much sense to me. And if this paradoxical undressing happened when they were outside of the tent, then I feel like we would have seen their items of clothes like around their bodies. You know what I mean? Like out in nature. But they weren't there. So on the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the next theory. Theory number eight, Yetis.
Strange Theories: Yeti and Decreased Gravity
00:26:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:13
Speaker
A researcher of the Yeti, Olga Koshmanova, penned a book titled A Look From Behind.
00:26:20
Speaker
She titled the book illustrating the phenomenon that we all feel like when you're walking or drive, I get it when I'm driving and it's you feel like there's a presence behind you like somebody in the backseat and you turn around and you look like fully expecting to see someone or something even though you know that I do that every morning when I get in my car. I do too. Especially when it's cold and I warm my car up and it's like unlocked
00:26:45
Speaker
I'm like not today murderer are you back there? Right well sometimes like headlights the way they shine in it reflects off of the headrest that's in the back and it makes me think that it's like a person back there and I turn around all the time because it freaks me out. Well
00:27:00
Speaker
she focused on that feeling on that sensation when you're walking around in the snowy Ural wilderness and that that tingling sensation in your spine she says it means there's a humanoid figure that of the Yeti
00:27:16
Speaker
lurking nearby. She argues that those who live deep in the woods like the mancy and we mentioned this earlier have rules that respect the yeti in her mind instead of nature. Rules like we talked about before they don't break out in loud song and disrupt the peacefulness of the woods. They don't take more wood than they need to survive so they respect the wilderness.
00:27:39
Speaker
So again the question is could the jokester of the group Yuri Kravanashenko have broken out in song again and this time not be punished by local police authorities but by something else entirely?
00:27:53
Speaker
So while they may have been joking, the Dyatlov group, as we talked about, kept meticulous diaries. We talked about it last time along with the photographs to document their trip because remember they had to provide evidence of their journey so they could get their grade 3 hiking certification.
00:28:10
Speaker
And we saw last week that the diaries were a mix of both serious material and silliness. Because if you were called Rustam's diary, there was that list of mancy words that were translated and he had lyrics to popular songs written in his journal. Well, the one thing that the group did to pass the time was to produce a pretend newspaper about the trip. Well, that's fun. Yeah, it sounds, I know, as English teachers were like, perfect. Well, they called it the Evening O'Torton.
00:28:40
Speaker
And one of the headlines read, and I quote, from now on, we know that the snowmen exist. And the story continued by saying, quote, they can be met in the northern Urals next to O'Torton Mountain. Now this entry, along with a photograph that I'm about to show you Maggie, is what have led many to speculate about the Yeti. Were they only kidding?
00:29:10
Speaker
So Maggie tell them about this photograph which we'll post on the website. So it is like I'm assuming that's a pretty good distance because the figure in the background is in shadow but he looks like you can't see any clothes he's just you know like a dark shadowy figure and a very large one. Yes.
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah and I would say like it does kind of look like our conception of Bigfoot. Yes. It really does. Well also those who have argued the escaped prisoner theory or the KGB theory also point to this picture and they say was this instead of Bigfoot was this that escaped prisoner or the KGB I mean the CIA who was following the group
00:30:01
Speaker
and the group had somehow managed to stay still and quiet enough that the person tracking them had emerged just long enough for Nikolai to capture him on film. But wouldn't there be more detail? Or maybe it's just because it's so far away. Right. And the way the picture is, it's almost like they were hiding behind a tree. Yeah, like they're hiding behind a tree and because the tree is in the forefront and that's what it focused on. Right.
00:30:29
Speaker
and so the background is yes it's blurry and those who believe this yeti theory they say well is this why they didn't pitch their tent in the tree line because at least by pitching it in the middle of the mountain then they're able to see anything coming around them like coming from a distance but then like
00:30:52
Speaker
couldn't this image just be something as innocuous as like a fuzzy image of one of the Dyatlov team themselves? Because we saw they're always taking pictures of each other. They're always goofing around and again like maybe if we had seen it in focus it would clearly be
00:31:10
Speaker
You know, exactly. One of the Dyatlov team. Now we're laughing at this kind of idea that there's Bigfoot, right? That's coming after them. But sometimes the logical reasons seem just as far out, just like this next theory. Theory number nine.
00:31:30
Speaker
gravity fluctuation. Now Maggie, this reason is quote-unquote scientific but it would literally freak me out like no other. This theory is one that you know is associated with this particular area of colasiacal where they had pitched their tint and this theory goes that this particular area may have experienced a decreased force of gravity or what's called gravity fluctuation.
00:32:00
Speaker
Now, interestingly, even though this sounds crazy and you're probably like, I have no idea what this is. It holds some clout because as I read in research, it was proposed by a physicist at St. Petersburg, a man by the name of German Urchenko. And he holds a PhD. He's an associate professor at the Institute of Engineering. So a well-rounded, well-educated guy. And he said, quote, it, meaning like the wind or the gravity,
00:32:29
Speaker
fluctuation, formed a corridor of a kind in which Earth's gravity decreased. The tourists in the tent sleeping or just getting ready had time to undress and then the quote unknown force began to lift them up off the floor and drag them into the direction of the corridor
00:32:53
Speaker
people began to push outwards. The emerging tourists instantly pushed the tent from the inside and since the pressure in their bodies still remained high, they received unexplained internal injuries including broken bones." So this is something that really can happen?
00:33:16
Speaker
Okay well let me get to that because that's a great question. Archenko believes that this occurrence it would have only lasted a couple of minutes but that that would be enough time. Are you ready for this? To throw people one to one and a half kilometers which is like a thousand to fifteen hundred yards so ten to fifteen football fields.
00:33:40
Speaker
And here's what he wrote, quote, they flew one by one or in groups from the tent to be scattered on the slope and in the woods. When they were falling in the snow from a height, not being able to protect themselves, they received the injuries on their faces, which were disfigured, end quote. Now, if this happened to me all of a sudden and all of a sudden I just began to levitate,
00:34:06
Speaker
There was no explanation because I'm not on the space station. I mean, I would die of fear, I'm sure, if something like that happened to me. Well, and here's the problem. To get to the answer to your question, the problem with belief in this theory is that from what I've seen and everything I've read, there is no evidence of this happening to anyone on the face of the earth ever.
00:34:29
Speaker
Okay, good. Because I was really scared. No fear of spontaneous levitation. Or a wall I had when I was little, this really random fear of black holes. Just get swallowed up. Yeah, because you just disappear in those. And then the whole time you were reading this, I was like, let's just add this to another random list of fears I have. Random fears. Hashtag spontaneous levitation.
00:34:53
Speaker
All right, well a bit more realistic, even though it's still rare, is theory 10, catabatic winds. Now I kept reading and all the stuff I was reading about the Dyatlok group about this type of wind and I had no earthly idea what it was. So I did some searching and I found that they are extremely rare, but they are a natural occurrence. So unlike, you know, the occurred to no one ever, they are sometimes called quote deranged winds.
00:35:22
Speaker
and they occur on mountain slopes when higher density air is pushed down the slope, especially at night when the temperature drops. And in the diaries of the dialogue group, they had mentioned a somewhat warm wind that was blowing up from the base of the mountain. So this theory goes that the warm wind, combined with the temperature drop, would have caused these catabatic winds. And because they're heavy winds, they rush down the mountain with hurricane-like speed. So it's like a hurricane
00:35:52
Speaker
in the mountains. Yeah, so if that happened that night, it would have been next to impossible for the diet log group to stay inside the tent, especially because it would have been extremely vulnerable since it was so exposed. And the only safety would have been to leave the tent and go directly to the tree line, right, where there's some safety and it's breaking the wind. But they walked there.
00:36:16
Speaker
They would have known that they needed to try to save the tent if they were going to survive, right? And that would explain why it appeared as though they had thrown snow on top of it to kind of hold it down. And they had placed a flashlight on the top shining so that then they could see it in the night and that could kind of help guide them back to safety once the danger had passed. Well, feeling like they needed to hurry then to save themselves. And again, because the wind was pushing
00:36:43
Speaker
creating low visibility, the theory goes that the team somehow became separated. But this theory also, in addition to not explaining why they walked away from the tent, as you just mentioned, it also doesn't explain many of the injuries that we saw in the victims. Now one final natural alternative is something called infrasound, which is theory number 11.
00:37:09
Speaker
Donnie Eicher, author of Dead Mountain, the untold true story of the Dyatlov Pass incident, believes this theory, also propounded by Yuri Kuchevich. Man, I was doing so well with the Russian names this time. Yuri Kuchevich. He's the head of the Dyatlov Foundation. Now this theory, like the Catabatic Winds,
00:37:34
Speaker
is due to a naturally occurring phenomenon of something called a Carmen vortex, which creates something also called infrasound. So infrasound is caused by winds that move over some sort of like unique topographic feature, like a domed mountain, which Eicher argues Colaxiacal is, or a sand dune. So like something with not a sharp peak, but like more of a rounded mound and that
00:38:04
Speaker
The wind going over it causes, quote, perceptible humming when wind gets warped by hitting the blunt surface. The wind then twists into miniature yet mighty tornadoes. Oh my. Yes, that can create this unique humming sound. Now this humming, which affects us even though it is imperceptible to the human ear,
00:38:27
Speaker
It's been shown can have peculiar effects on us humans including nausea, anxiety, increased heartbeat, feelings of dread, difficulty breathing. So it's almost like this humming that's going on that you can't hear.
00:38:43
Speaker
makes you insane, right? It creates this anxiety and this feeling like you're about to die. So his theory is that the tent was down the slope enough so that the actual tornadoes didn't affect the team, but that the team was affected by the infrasound.
00:39:03
Speaker
And so maybe this infrasound caused that feeling of immense panic and dread. It drove the group to cut open their tent and so there wasn't time to dress and maybe it led to disorientation and maybe that disorientation would explain why they walked.
00:39:19
Speaker
slowly as opposed to running, and Eicher argues that the group, after walking far enough away from the infrasound path, would have realized that there wasn't any real danger. Calmed down and tried to make their way back to the tent, which would explain why Zena, Dyatlov, and Rustam were trying to make their way back, but hypothermia reached them first. Right?
00:39:44
Speaker
So all of these are like, no, I lied, not all of these. Some of these are like pretty plausible theories. So you think about like all of the injuries that they had and then you're like, just kidding, no. Wait, yeah. And that's one of the reasons why I have to discount this theory because then how does that explain crushed ribs, skulls? And I feel like there has to be a theory that's going to explain some of those injuries and there are
00:40:12
Speaker
But the problem is they're a little bit crazier than some of the ones that we've talked about. And the thought behind all of these final theories stems from these photos that I'm about to show you, Maggie. And again, I'll post these on the website for you to see them as well. And I feel like this is kind of like one of those ink blot tests where you see what you want to see. So Maggie, I'm going to see what you see. Okay. All right, Maggie.
00:40:39
Speaker
Here you go, and there are several pictures here and I'm gonna post these to the website again. Here is the first one. Okay, this looks like, like when someone snaps a photo and there's like those little just like lights or it's like in the background that like my grandma would say is like spirits. Oh. That's kind of what this looks like. And maybe one is like smokey.
00:41:09
Speaker
Right, well there are more. Okay. Lots more. Here are some more images of film that was developed from the Dyatlov team. I'm going to show you some more and then you can kind of give an overall feeling about them. One final page for Maggie. I'm showing her like
00:41:35
Speaker
20 different images. So what would you say about, what do you see in these images? I mean, it just kind of looks like something floating and like bright lights and that kind of looks like someone. Well, you could be right.
00:42:03
Speaker
So regardless of what you see, these pictures are very strange. Yes, weird. Yeah, it's not a normal photograph, especially, you know, if you have like one photograph that maybe doesn't develop and it's got multiple pictures, all with similar odd lights in them, you can't really explain those away. So a lot, again,
00:42:34
Speaker
how people interpret this depends on who you ask and all of the explanations are
00:42:41
Speaker
off-putting as well.
Extraterrestrial and Military Tests
00:42:43
Speaker
Theory number 12 is UFOs. Yes. You're like no avalanche boo. Yes UFOs. Well the night of February 1st 1959 the Dyatlov team were not the first to see some potentially strange sights. Another hiking team who had set up camp roughly 30 miles away reported and I quote, a shining circular body
00:43:11
Speaker
flew over the village from the southwest to the northeast. The shining disk was practically the size of a full moon, a bright white light surrounded by a blue halo. The halo brightly flashed like the flashes
00:43:30
Speaker
of distant lightning. When the body disappeared behind the horizon, the sky lit up in that place for a few more minutes." And additionally, these spheres or orbs, like your grandmother had said, were observed by other groups in February and March of 1959 in Evedale.
00:43:54
Speaker
And reports were made by several independent witnesses of the events. And lending credence to this theory is the fact that Lev Ivanov, who was the lead investigator of the deaths of the dial-up team, is known for promoting the possibility. He noted that the tops of many of the trees near where the bodies were found were scorched at the top.
00:44:17
Speaker
as if a fire or something very hot or very fast had brushed the tops of them. The treetops were 50 feet high. So what could cause such a phenomenon? This is why his judgment of the deaths was that the cause was, quote, an unknown elemental force which they were unable to overcome, end quote. So that's a vague enough reason
00:44:43
Speaker
that it could account for extraterrestrial activity. And others who believe this theory, they further argue that the group had been maybe blinded by these bright lights because they argued that the evidence found at the scene revealed that the makeshift fire that they found had been built with damp and like two large branches when dry perfectly usable brush surrounded them. Now,
00:45:07
Speaker
In my research, I saw nothing about the wood that was used for fire. You know, that's what people do, explain this.
00:45:14
Speaker
Nor do I really think that they would have been able to tell that the firewood, since covered by snow, was damp before the snow covered it. You know what I mean? Versus after. So I don't know if I really believe that. And a lot of people rule this one out because they say, you know, it's just too fanciful. But it is interesting that the lead investigators saw scorched treetops. Yes. Like that's a little bizarre. Bizarre.
00:45:40
Speaker
So we question what else could have caused the injuries? If not, you know, some force that is quote unquote inhuman, right? Like aliens.
00:45:49
Speaker
Well, theory number 13 is secret military testing. So some conspiracy theorists, according to the Dyatlov Pass website, have noted that the Soviet military had been launching these rockets from one of their bases nearby. But the armed forces were like, no, the rockets we launched, they landed in the northern Ural Mountains, nowhere near the Dyatlov group and where they had made camp. And that was their, I guess, justification.
00:46:17
Speaker
But other people have argued that those orbs could be evidence of rockets or some other secret military weapon being tested. So they're taking pictures of it. And many use that to explain what I mentioned earlier in the episode as the odd appearance of the bodies at the funeral because there were a bunch of people who described the bodies, the ones who had open caskets, which again was not all of them.
00:46:45
Speaker
that they had this dark brown tan color to their skin and that they looked prematurely aged. And so they were like, well, maybe there's some sort of like secret military weapon, you know, that was used. And again, they like unwittingly stumbled upon this area.
00:47:04
Speaker
It could also explain away the fact that the government, and this is according to Richard McLean Smith's Unexplained podcast, he mentions how the government had attempted to use false pretenses to convince the families of the victims to agree to a mass grave?
00:47:20
Speaker
and not public and individual ceremonies. So according to his podcast basically the government went to like the first family and they were like hey we've already spoken to all of the other families and they agreed to do this one mass grave and ceremony. That's so weird.
00:47:36
Speaker
and not do individual ones. So we hope that you're not going to be the only one who disagrees. And then they went to the next family and they're like hey we've already gone to all of the other families and they all agree to do this. We hope you're not the only one who disagrees. And in fact they had not talked to any of the families. So they were just like making this story up to kind of keep it hush hush which has led a lot of people to be like
00:48:01
Speaker
What were they trying to cover up? So did they do a masquerade? No, they ended up having separate funerals. Well, they had like group funerals, I guess, by when the bodies were discovered. And there were two of them who were buried separately from, they were buried in Sverdlosk, most of them, which is where they had gone to school.
00:48:24
Speaker
but a couple of them were buried in other places and the argument for that was that where they had been in the military they got like some sort of like special burial. It would also potentially explain the fact that some of the articles of clothing from the group contained the high levels of radiation, right? So like if this was some secret military test
00:48:44
Speaker
Maybe that's why. Well, one particular journalist by the last name of Ivanovich has argued that the Dial-up team was murdered for what they saw that cold night and that the crime scene, he argues, as a result, had been staged.
00:49:00
Speaker
He noted some inconsistencies in the witness reports and that days before the search parties arrived that his argument is other people had gone there to quote, stage the scene so that the military could hide their crimes. Even arguing that the tent had actually been pitched along the tree line, but moved to the middle of the mountain slope to create confusion.
00:49:25
Speaker
possibly explaining why the footprints appeared that they just walked away instead of ran away. Right, so is this why nothing makes sense? What Maggie just said, is this why the rips show this urgency to get out of the tent but the footprints show this slow and intentional movement? Is this why some people argue that the lead investigator saw the Dyatlov tent in the distance but were in no hurry to get to it?
00:49:55
Speaker
to note their discovery, like could they have already known? Right? Is this why some argue that the date, get this Maggie, the date of the report about the Dyatlov incident
00:50:08
Speaker
had a date that didn't quite fit. Now most people are like, oh, it's like common mistake. You know how like, you know, in January, 2020, I'll still be writing 2019 for like five months, right? Like simple mistakes. So some people are like, oh, this was a simple mistake. But others, especially those who say that this scene was staged, say that this wasn't accidentally misdated at all because they argue that the investigation actually began
00:50:34
Speaker
before the day at log group had even been reported missing or search parties formed because the investigation date says February 6th even though the team
00:50:48
Speaker
wasn't reported missing until almost 10 days later. Okay, so sometimes, like, I don't even know what the date is. Oh, I do. It's Friday the 13th. So sometimes I'll be like, maybe I thought today was the 12th. Right. And I'll accidentally put that on the paper. Right. But I'm not like saying it's the third, or, you know, like... You'd be a day off. You wouldn't be two weeks off. Right. And, I mean, there are lots of questions.
00:51:17
Speaker
There are also lots of questions, you know, that focus on the lack of clout for this theory. So for example, if this is the explanation, right? Wouldn't all of them have suffered from radiation poisoning and thus all of the articles of clothing tested high for radiation levels? Like if they did stumble upon some secret military weapons test, why would it have only been like three articles of clothing? And not all of them. Exactly. And wouldn't their bodies be more
00:51:45
Speaker
like burnt maybe? I mean I would think or at least that like all of them would look the same. Yeah I mean I guess this could explain why the tree tops could have been. Right exactly and the other question is like could this tanish color of their skin have actually you know have a much more innocent explanation and that being that because their bodies were exposed to the elements for so long
00:52:10
Speaker
that your body actually started to go through this mummification process. And so that's what caused the discoloration of the skin. And maybe the aging, like they looked like they were other. Right.
00:52:22
Speaker
Now another particular military exercise theory that's not associated with radiation is a parachute mine exercise. Now parachute mines as the name implies they explode in the air right like a parachute coming down and the thought is that the group was maybe woken up by a loud explosion of one of these parachute mines and then being disoriented and thinking it was an avalanche. They had ripped their way out of the tent they were shell shocked
00:52:51
Speaker
And since these mines actually detonate in the air as opposed to on the ground, they can result in injuries like those found on the day at Loft 9. So like these internal injuries, crushed ribs, those sorts of things, but no external injuries. And remember we pointed that out last week. Like this is odd. Like how could you have broken ribs but no injury on the outside? What could have caused that pressure?
00:53:14
Speaker
Well, it could have been this parachute mine explosion and maybe that's the reasons for the lights in the sky on the film as they were noticing these things that night. They go out and they start taking pictures of it. But again, I go back to how are you missing a tongue? How are you missing eyeballs? I feel like if your tongue is gone and an animal is responsible for that, you would be missing part of your face.
00:53:43
Speaker
I mean, true, yeah, I don't know what, like, scavenging animals, like, are they really gonna dig in there and be like, oh, this tongue looks tasty, right, instead of your cheek, which is right there, you're right. Well, the lights could also be explained by something that I personally think is much more likely. Theory number 14 is ball lightning. Now, as with many of the theories, there could be natural or logical explanations for the lights in the photograph.
00:54:12
Speaker
It's scary nonetheless. This particular explanation is something called ball lightning, which is lightning, not surprisingly, in a ball shape. And it could explain the lights in the sky. It could explain the scorched tree tops.
00:54:28
Speaker
Well, Micah Hanks of Mysterious Universe, he found that in a 1984, and I know that's several years after the dial-up incident, but in a 1984 article in the British Journal of Meteorology, the following report concerning ball lightning based upon an incident that happened to the speaker on a high altitude mountain, much like Kolesi Akul in 1978, quote,
00:54:53
Speaker
I woke up with the strange feeling that a stranger had made his way into our tent. Thrusting my head out of the sleeping bag, I froze. A bright yellow blob was floating about one meter from the floor. It disappeared into Coravin's sleeping bag. The man screamed in pain. The ball jumped out and proceeded to circle over the other bags, now hiding in one, now in another.
00:55:23
Speaker
When it burned a hole in mine, I felt an unbearable pain, as if I were being burned by a welding machine, and blacked out. Regaining consciousness after a while, I saw the same yellow ball, which methodically observing a pattern that was known to it alone, kept diving into the bags, evoking desperate, heart-rending howls from the victims.
00:55:48
Speaker
This indescribable horror repeated itself several times. When I came back to my senses for the fifth or sixth time the ball was gone, I could not move my legs or arms and my body was burning as if it had been turned into a ball of fire itself."
00:56:10
Speaker
So let's just go ahead and add this to the list of random scary things that I'm afraid of with right up there with black holes. And spontaneous limitation. Now we have ball lightning, right? It's like it's attacking you. I mean, I would think it was some like evil spirit. I would not think like, oh, this is natural. Yeah. Natural phenomenon.
00:56:33
Speaker
So the argument goes, maybe a similar incident could explain the lights and the photographs, right? The similar orbs that were observed by other groups, like not UFOs, it's ball lightning, not secret military weapons tests, it's ball lightning. It could explain the burns on the bodies, you know, that we previously thought were caused by the makeshift fire.
00:56:55
Speaker
fire, it could explain the lack of clothing, right? If this thing is like getting into your sleeping bags and getting under your clothes, I mean you would be like taking it off because you feel like you're being attacked by this ball lightning and you feel like you're on fire. And some of their stuff was scorched. Right.
00:57:11
Speaker
and it could explain why the tent was ripped in an attempt to get out and maybe the group you know they might have even been worried that the ball lightning would create like a hot spot under the tent which would cause the snow to melt and again it could create an avalanche. What it wouldn't explain though and we keep going back to this is why the group left slowly and calmly
00:57:34
Speaker
and why there potentially was time to load the tent down with snow and place a flashlight on top to find their way back. And finally, well, this last theory, those who have a little more belief that there are sometimes dangers in this world that we can't see, their deaths could be the result of something much more ominous.
Folklore and Supernatural Causes
00:58:02
Speaker
Theory 15, the Golden Woman, or Baba Yaga, or some other demon. In fact, when looking at the details of this case, Maggie, some see something very dark indeed.
00:58:17
Speaker
Cora Hull, the author of a book entitled Fallen Angels Exposed, said the following, quote, these photographs are a clear indication of fallen angel or higher demonic involvement, several of which appear to capture a partial physical manifestation of a higher level shape-shifting demon.
00:58:42
Speaker
and that the bright, small dot is, quote, typical of fallen angels and or higher-level demons manifesting in orb form that people mistakenly refer to as aliens, or UFOs, end quote.
00:59:01
Speaker
Okay, so this kind of stuff really does scare me because I believe in angels. So if there's angels, there has to be demons. That's my perspective too. And this is scary to me. I know. And especially because you were commenting on the pictures. Yes, of the one that kind of looks like a form. And to me, this picture almost looks like a person falling out of the sky. I mean, it's scary.
00:59:32
Speaker
It's just scary. And a lot of people, they argue, if you're unlike Cora Hull, who argues that it's a demon, well, some of them say, well, these golden orbs that are from these now infamous pictures, they're something, well, still more demonic than aliens. Some argue that it's the golden woman of legend. And it said that the golden woman or the golden hag. I would be very mad if my name was the golden hag.
01:00:00
Speaker
that she would appear in the shape of an old woman and serve as this oracle for indigenous priests, which again would take us back to the mancy if you're believing this. But a lot of her story sounds a lot like the legend of Baba Yaga that we talked about last time, which is a figure who is just ready to destroy. And the problem is we don't know.
01:00:29
Speaker
Some diary entries and photographs they give rise to the theory of the Yeti or an assassin like we saw. Others still support theories of ball lightning or aliens or military testing or the Golden Woman or Baba Yaga all out to do some menacing deed. Now we talked about 15 theories today.
01:00:49
Speaker
Well, they're actually from everything I've read, roughly 75 possible explanations that have been given for this case.
Conclusion: Government's Natural Causes Explanation
01:01:01
Speaker
And admittedly, some of them are wild, like wolverines attacking because they smelled the food, right? Even though there are no animal tracks. Now, when the Russian government reopened the case this year, they stated, nope,
01:01:16
Speaker
I know there are 75 reasons, but we're only going to consider what to us are the three most likely hypotheses. Here are the three that they said they were going to consider, Maggie. A hurricane. So the catabatic winds. Okay. An avalanche. No. Or the snow slab, which is a particular kind of avalanche. That's it.
01:01:37
Speaker
no other possible explanations. All of which I'm gonna say no, no, and no. No, no, no. So Maggie, which theory do you think is most likely of them? Or like where are you leaning? So I think this one is hard because like my brain wants to go to like an actual like plausible end. But then part of me is like
01:02:07
Speaker
But maybe not. I feel like I'm kind of stuck in between military testing. Okay. Like the parachute mines? Yes. Okay. Um, the Yeti. Don't laugh. I'm so sorry. Because I feel like, like, when you were telling the story last week, I was like, they were attacked by Bigfoot. Like, that's the first thing I thought. And I told Allison about, there was this video posted on Facebook and
01:02:37
Speaker
I'm sure you can tell from my voice that I'm from Eastern Kentucky and I don't want to like be stereotypical but there was a video posted of this like just the mountainside and you hear like this god-awful noise and I promise you it's not like a coyote it's not like an animal and like people from back home said that it was like someone had captured Bigfoot's like call on on their phone. So a scary noise. Yeah.
01:03:05
Speaker
And so, I don't know, or maybe it was a demon. I don't know. I'm kind of leaning towards a ball lightning, too. Yeah. I mean, that's freaky, but like. But real. Natural, I guess. Even though I've never seen it, but. I hope I never do. Yeah, exactly. And the reason we don't go camping. That's right. We stay at home. Yes. Well,
01:03:26
Speaker
You know, with the Russian government saying that they're only going to consider those three, I guess my problem is that, you know, say the avalanche. In more than a hundred expeditions to the area since the Dyatlov Pass reopened four years after the incident, from what I've read, not a single avalanche had been reported.
01:03:44
Speaker
And if hurricane force winds or a snow slab are the cause, how could we still find the footprints in the snow? How could we still find the tent? And we saw pictures of the tent. It is clearly there. It is not covered by feet of snow. And how could there be no evidence noted of sliding snow and ice? And I have no doubt that we will get a, quote, official answer. But for many, the true cause of death remains buried on Kolesiakal.
01:04:14
Speaker
Let's be honest, no matter what the Russian officials find after reopening the investigation, there will always be those who wonder. Those who can't let the what-ifs go. What if one of the team, or all of them for some reason, experienced some sort of mental shift that left them devoid of reason? Or what if the Dyatlov team saw something they shouldn't have? What if it were something far more sinister yet?
01:04:44
Speaker
But, my sleuthounds, I want to leave you with something to ponder, whether the legends of Baba Yaga are true.
01:04:52
Speaker
Her dichotomous nature should be something that we can all understand. After all, we see it in nature that surrounds us, and not just in the snowy Urals, but everywhere in our world. The nature that is, on the one hand, life-giving, nurturing, water to the parched lips, rain to the crops that become our daily meals, but also the nature that is the destructive force, drowning the innocent. Hurricane force winds, apathetically ripping life from the land. And further still,
01:05:21
Speaker
We can also see her in the people we pass on the street. However, we cannot just focus on the evil because we have to remember there's also the capacity for good, but only if we meet it with our own goodness, with our own willingness to admit that yes, while there is evil and plenty of it,
01:05:44
Speaker
There's also charity, hope, kindness, laughter, and beauty. And I'm going to leave you with a portion of a poem that I found online, and it was entitled, Baba Yaga Said by Shanann McGuire, which showcases the intentional sense of awe that Baba Yaga can also inspire. Quote,
01:06:06
Speaker
There's nothing mystic in this magic, Baba Yaga said. Nothing so strange as you would make it out to be. This world is wide and wild and full of wonders, and in your yearning to see fireworks, you overlook the glory and a dandelion, the spectacle trapped inside a butterfly." End quote.
01:06:34
Speaker
Let's allow our minds not just to revel in complexity, but also to appreciate and exist in simplicity. Even if it's just for today, let's choose to focus on the good.
01:06:49
Speaker
At least then, you might be able to get some sleep tonight. Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases Podcast, to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at Coffee Cases Podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcast at gmail.com.
01:07:12
Speaker
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