Transcript
Speaker: My entire extended family were important figures in the Zionist movement before the state was established. I felt very proud to be part of that family until much later on when I was exposed to the reality in Palestine itself outside of the spaces where the colonizers live, where Israelis live. How did you personally come to understand the difference between propaganda and reality being fed as a false and immoral paradigm? I broke free by stepping out of that sphere of a colonizer and into the world where Palestinians actually live.
Speaker: How do you see the current state and future of this movement with activism, particularly in the U.S.? On the positive side, everybody is working much more closely, targeting the same people that need to be targeted and need to be moved.
Speaker: As-salamu alaykum. This is CARE on the Air, and my name is Robert McCaw. I'm CARE's National Government Affairs Director, and I am filling in for our host, Edward Mitchell, CARE's National Deputy Director. And today we have an exciting program. We're joined by Miko Pellet.
Speaker: Miko, hello, how are you? Good. How are you? and Nice to be with you. Nice to be with you. Now, for viewers that don't know Mikko, he is an Israeli-American activist.
Speaker: He's an author. He's a speaker known for advocating for a single democratic state with equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis. He was born in 1961 in Jerusalem to a prominent military family. His father, ah General Pellet, served in the IDF before rejecting the ideology of the State of Israel. His books, The General Son and Injustice, chronicle his transformation. So you should definitely pick up that book and critique of Israeli policies and support for the BDS movement. So with that, Miko, we're really happy that you've joined Kira on the air today.
Speaker: Sure, it's a pleasure. I'll just add one more item to my bio, which is that I'm the founder and president of Palestine House of Freedom here in Washington, D.C. that's I'm speaking to you from right here. Oh, that is excellent. yeah I'm going to have to drop by going to have to grab some tea.
Speaker: Absolutely. All right. So just to kick this off, tell us a little bit what it was like growing up in Israel with a father in the military.
Speaker: What sort of things were Israelis brought up to believe ah during this time period, nineteen sixty s nineteen seventy s So, well, first of all, again, thank you for having me. You know, it wasn't just my father, but my entire extended family were um were very important figures in the Zionist movement before the state was established, and then were held important positions within the within the state after it was established.
Speaker: So they were the planners and then executors of the of the apartheid regime that now we know is has been occupying Palestine since the state was established. um You know, when you in in in um in a society that is so militaristic, which is what Israeli society is, having a father who is a general You know, I mean, you couldn't you couldn't have anything more glamorous than that, um because the generals, and particularly that generation of generals that were officers in 1948, and then there were generals in 1967, these are two two times two two dates, two years that were instrumental in the in the establishing of the of the myth of the Israeli military.
Speaker: ah To have a father like that is like, you know, you can't imagine anything, any any bigger source of pride. And discussing, I mean, I always say I didn't learn about Zionism from a textbook or from a college course every night at the dinner table. it was a way of life.
Speaker: Family gathering. It was all about the state, what's good for the state, what's not good for the state, who are friends of the state. That was the conversation growing up all the time.
Speaker: And so I felt very proud to be part of that part of that family until much later on when i was exposed to the realities in Palestine itself outside of the spaces where the colonizers live, where the where Israelis live.
Speaker: and then everything And then everything changed. You know, and let's just ask about how that changed. So you're brought up in this environment. You're brought up with a family carrying out the occupation, building the foundations for apartheid. How did you personally come to understand what was the difference between propaganda and reality?
Speaker: ah What you were being fed as a false and immoral paradigm. How did you break free of that?
Speaker: Well, the short answer is i broke free by stepping out of that the sphere of the colonizer um and into the world where Palestinians actually live. Now, growing up, mean I didn't know the word apartheid, but I saw it. I mean, I was born and raised in Jerusalem.
Speaker: um you know i was four or five years was taken, was occupied. And, you know, you see the differences. You see that the Palestinians, ah you know, they their language is different. Their schools are different. Their streets are different. that I mean, everything is different.
Speaker: You know, ah where where Israeli Jews live, you have sidewalks, you have playgrounds, you have parks, you have swimming pools, you have, you know, it's a very nice reality. So just to clarify, materially, Palestinians were living on a different strata than their Israeli neighbors.
Speaker: Completely. And on top of that, you know, we wouldn't enter those spaces because they're dangerous, they're Arabs, they want to kill us. so breaking ah So I saw it. You know, you see it. And when you drive around the country, if you pass through a Palestinian town in any part of Palestine, you see the differences. I mean, it's night and day.
Speaker: It's not even similar. there's not there's no so There's no similarities at all, even within 1948 Palestine, where Palestinian so-called citizens of Israel live. Then having taken this decision about 25 or so years ago, a little more than 25 years ago, to cross over and see what it's like on the other side to get a better understanding of where it is that I was born and raised.
Speaker: um That's when I slowly became you know began to realize that everything I was told is based on a lie. what What brought you to the other side of the fence? Was it military service? Was it just no no no young, finding your own footing? No, this was much later, you know, 25 years ago. into it little bit more.
Speaker: So in 1997... i'll get into it a little bit more so ninety ninety seven My sister's little girl was killed in a suicide mission in Jerusalem. yeah She was 12 years old. And so that obviously is the kind of shock that forces you to reevaluate everything you know.
Speaker: And so I was living already here in the US, you know I traveled to Jerusalem, I was there for you know the funeral and everything. And it was big news because here is the the granddaughter of a famous general and look what happened and so on.
Speaker: But
Speaker: the trying to understand what is it that three young men decide to, there there are three three three young Palestinians decide to go and kill themselves and then kill a whole bunch of civilians what What have we done? i mean how did How did this reality come about? And this was you know the mid-1990s. There was a lot of violence and buses were blood being blown out. There was a lot of violence. well was It was the Second Infantata.
Speaker: It was leading up leading up to the Second Infantata. It was like once Oslo, the Oslo process, people realized that the Oslo process was a lie was you know and wasn't leading anywhere. In fact, it was only strengthening the occupation and the oppression of Palestinians.
Speaker: um And so yeah and the tendency is to just move on. Like there's ah here here there's attack, there there's attack, people killed heel, people killed there. I mean, you you can't keep track, right? the um And I opted to just stop and say, well, wait a minute, what what is going on here? What kind of reality have we created that brings about something so horrific?
Speaker: um That's a radical act of empathy. Well, I began, so what I did was I began actively engaging with Palestinians here in the U.S. And then when I'd go back home, I would travel around the country, meet with Palestinian activists, first within 1948. And I'd never met Palestinians.
Speaker: I grew up in Jerusalem, what they call, you know quote unquote, a mixed city. It's not a mixed city. It's a completely segregated city, just like the entire country is. And so I never met Palestinians. And then when I would go back home, I would travel into Palestinian cities within 1948 in the West Bank and so on.
Speaker: And I began to understand what kind of reality we created, we as Israelis, you know the Zionists and so forth. And that's when I realized I wasn't born in a country called Israel. i was born in Palestine.
Speaker: um But in a part of Palestine that has been colonized completely, and you can live within that colonized space and completely not know or not sense that you're actually in Palestine.
Speaker: You have to break away from that mentally and physically travel into it. And so that was that was the journey. That was what prompted it. And then I, you know, formed relationships and trust and and friendships and so on to the point where, like I said earlier, about three, four years ago, I, with many Palestinian comrades in Palestine and here, decided to create Palestine House of Freedom here in here, and right in the heart of D.C. We're right on Capitol Hill.
Speaker: Well, you know, thank you for Again, that radical act of empathy and the willingness to meet the other rather than letting them be the other and making you know justice, justice for Israelis, justice for Palestinians your goal. Because when someone loses a family member, it can take them in many directions.
Speaker: And you made a very bold choice. And I think people on both sides of this need to learn how to have radical empathy. um Speaking of being on Capitol Hill, you know I've been in D.C. working for CARE since 2011. I've seen some major changes in how this issue is addressed, how Palestinians are referred to, how the parties are treating.
Speaker: the Israel and Palestine issue, what a vision of a future state would be. Before it was unquestionably, there's it has to be a two-state solution.
Speaker: But as Israel continues to occupy more land, not only in Gaza from this conflict, but in the West Bank, taking over Islamic religious sites, ah proposing to take over other sites,
Speaker: ah where do you see this relationship in DC going? You know, what would you describe, i guess, as the current status of Israel's relationship with the US? You know, just, we keep on seeing ah
Speaker: the peace negotiations between America and Iran being sabotaged or disrupted. And now there's frustration building with U.S. leaders, with Israel.
Speaker: ah The public opinion of this relationship is is tanking for Israel. So what do you make sense of this? Because I've seen just in the last 15 years of work from Capitol Hill,
Speaker: When there was a conflict with Gaza maybe 15 years ago, you would get two or three members of Congress to speak out. Now you can get possibly upwards to 60. ah So we're not there yet, but you know what's your take?
Speaker: Well, we obviously we see some serious fractures in this in this bond between the two apartheid states, the United States and and and the Zionist apartheid state of Israel. i mean, we see serious fractures. In public opinion, for sure.
Speaker: and in the halls of power, it's beginning to there's serious cracks that are taking place. what we Our vision is, as Palestine has a freedom, is and our our mission as a nonprofit is to educate. So our mission is to educate ah people in the halls of power, the general public, and so on, that the single most realistic and just solution for the question of Palestine is a liberated Palestine, liberated from Zionism, on all of historic Palestine, with equal rights.
Speaker: And so to that end, we do everything we do. We have an outreach arm, we have an educational arm, we' we're finishing up a very extensive curriculum on Palestine using Palestinian sources only, going back historically and culturally and politically.
Speaker: um and And we have events, we have a very large space here, and so we hold events, educational events, community events. But that is the single focus of all of the work that we do, to get to the point where people realize that a peace peaceful coexistence is a possibility.
Speaker: However, to achieve that, we need to dismantle the apartheid state, replace it with a real democratic liberated Palestine, allow the refugees to return, put in immediately, put in mechanisms that will allow the refugees to return and and and be paid reparations. And it's it's all possible. and We're not reinventing the wheel here. We've seen processes like this take place in the past.
Speaker: We just need to overcome this connection, this this really psychotic and sick connection between the regime in Palestine, the apartheid regime, and the racist apartheid regime here in Washington, D.C., which which which has you know they have a long history and and shared values of racism and and and apartheid and genocide.
Speaker: And like I said, there are fractures, and we're, of course, trying to get in these fractures and and and make them bigger and bigger. yeah i just call it sunlight, just exposing them to the truth.
Speaker: Exactly, yeah, bringing some sunlight. and and And in terms of the war with Iran, it was a war that attacking Iran made no sense. there was no strategic value, there was no there's no explanation.
Speaker: you know, I just did a, I was on a panel with Mohamed Marandi from, you know, the Iranian was you know professor, and you listen to him, and and you know, you have a clear idea of where Iran stands and why they do what they do.
Speaker: When you listen to commentators that try to explain the U.S. or the Israelis' stance on this, There's no idea. Nobody knows why they attacked Iran other than they wanted to attack Iran.
Speaker: no but There's no explanation. There's no reasonable explanation or commentary that helps to understand why they did this, why they created this chaos, why they attacked this country, other than the fact that they wanted chaos and to attack this country. And now the Trump administration is going, oh, my God, why did we do this actually? we you know Look at this mess.
Speaker: How do we extricate ourselves from this mess while we have this ridiculous, psychotic ally that wants chaos, wants more land, wants to destroy Lebanon, wants to take but large swaths of Syria, and just wants to attack Iran in order to attack Iran. you know And so that's the reality now. And and this administration got itself into this c mess. Now they have to figure out a way to get themselves out of it.
Speaker: And it's pathetic. It's really pathetic. I mean, we saw reporting from the Situation Room when Netanyahu was pitching Trump on why they should you know, attack Iran unprovoked, his own cabinet, Trump's own cabinet,
Speaker: rejected this idea and said it would be foolish. i'm I'm actually using polite words right now. yeah But Trump went ahead regardless. ah We said it would be a three-day mission, a four-day mission. I think, we're are we on month three now?
Speaker: Time flies in D.C. ah There are no objectives. And I think because there's no objectives and the open... goal for the Israelis or for the Netanyahu government was just to cripple your enemy, to you know hurt their infrastructure, possibly incite regime regime change.
Speaker: Although internally, the CIA was reporting to the president that regime change was not going to come from the streets. So any encouraging of Iranians to go to the streets and, you know, Kiribati's Iranian should pick their own government.
Speaker: We don't have a ah bone in that fight. But, you know, we were essentially sending people to their own deaths. we the The Kurds were happy that we gave them arms that never made it into Iran. I'm happy that there was not further bloodshed in Iran. But because there was no true stated goal or endgame for this attack, except cripple Iran, hurt Israel's enemies,
Speaker: my My own opinion is that this happened because when you read the cards in D.C., it shows that ah this is probably their last chance where they could control an American president to attack Iran. And when you look at even the prior Bush administration or Obama or even Biden,
Speaker: ah We really, we we did not listen to Israel. We were not so easily led into this war. But Trump was without an end goal against his advisors. And now ah that we're getting near the midterms, now that Israel seems to be sabotaging every ceasefire, and Trump loves saying that there's always a deal approaching. I think he said it over 33 times.
Speaker: ah and hopefully one will stick. I don't really consider an MOU a deal. Hopefully they'll get there. But I think this is going to really alienate this administration from the Netanyahu government if they keep persisting on holding land in Lebanon and their ability to attack Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Occupy Gaza, Occupy the West Bank.
Speaker: um where Where do you see this fracture going? ah I know i I keep on throwing a lot on the table, but I'm just trying to set the scene. you know i think it's coming. I think there could possibly be a fracture.
Speaker: No politician wants to be the first to lead that, but I think more are you know becoming emboldened. Yeah, well, absolutely. More are becoming emboldened. Not enough, like you said, but more and more. And the fracture, I think, is going... So when you read the the Hebrew news and listen to the you know TV commentators and to see what you know people in the streets, what popular opinion is like among Israelis, and you know what what major ah members of the Netanyahu cabinet are saying...
Speaker: They will continue to attack and destroy southern Lebanon and flatten southern Lebanon. They will continue to bomb Beirut. They will continue to the genocide in Gaza. They will continue with all their horrific genocidal policies throughout Palestine.
Speaker: And they want to attack Iran more and more and more. um I think both the U.S. and Israel made a colossal strategic mistake.
Speaker: I think they took Iranian restraint over all of these decades where there was the U.S. and Israel were threatening to attack Iran, ah and Iran responded with great restraint. Even when it was attacked, it it it it responded with great restraint.
Speaker: And I think they mistook that restraint to be weakness. And they've decided, they've opened they've opened ah you know a war that they cannot possibly win.
Speaker: that they cannot there was no advantage to it to anyone, the chaos in the Straits of Hormuz. You know, people never heard of the Straits of Hormuz, most people, right? It's just chaos. Most most Americans can't identify Iran on or a map.
Speaker: ah Yeah, exactly. and And it's a pretty big country. And so it's hard to miss. And, you know, the chaos in the Gulf, in the Gulf states and so on. All of this for what exactly?
Speaker: For nothing. Now they're trying to negotiate to get back to a place where they were anyway before this this psychotic attack. but that's what happens when you have leaders who are irresponsible, who have no understanding of the lay of the land, who have no concept of history, and are just willing to attack another country at a whim.
Speaker: And I don't know what they were expecting. I don't know how they thought they could possibly win this. They can't. Again, the Iranians responded with great restraint. When you compare the casualty count that you know the result of the casualties are the result of the Iranian attacks versus the casualty count ah casualty count that resulted in the Israeli and the American attacks, I mean, it's night and day.
Speaker: i mean, right off the bat they bombed a school and then they killed all these all these little girls and so on. so i mean And they're mistaking, and I think they're still doing this. they are you know I always say they forget that Iran invented chess.
Speaker: You cannot win this war. And I never thought they would attack. I never thought they were that stupid. Every time I was asked over the years, will there be an attack on Iran? I said, no, they're lunatics, but they're not that crazy because they cannot win a war against Iran. It is ah impossible.
Speaker: It's never going to happen. And therefore, I never thought they would be stupid enough or psychotic enough to attack. And now they got to deal with it.
Speaker: I think the fallout is going to continue. I hope this fracture continues. Yesterday, you know, Trump is a man of two minds. ah Yesterday, he said and criticized Israel for attacking entire apartment buildings in Beirut just to go after One supposed Hezbollah operative, he said Syria was doing a better job at containing Hezbollah than Israel.
Speaker: Obviously, he's throwing side eye at Israel. He's not happy with them. At the same time, he just recently said he would flatten Iran again. if um if the the peace negotiations don't work out.
Speaker: So CARE is holding off on welcoming any statements from this administration because they change daily. That all said, you know we've heard this American perspective.
Speaker: ah I'm going to ask you one more quick question about DC since you're a Capitol Hill creature like myself. um I feel like the Republicans more easily bury their head in the in the sand on this issue. And it's something they're trying to ignore, even if their base is changing. I feel like more elements within the Democratic Party still preach an idea of a two-state solution, even though that's failing.
Speaker: We see issues where a number of Democrats are still supporting these National Defense Authorization Act and Intelligence Act. We call them merger bills, where we're merging technology transfers, giving priorities to Israeli military contractors, ensuring that they get first dibs on all our tech, including AI and drones, which they've been shown to use, kill civilians, and then intelligence sharing provisions.
Speaker: um the Democrats really separate this out and say, well, all these benefits for Israel are for the state. We don't like this administration. What's your opinion, though, on a left-leaning administration unseating Netanyahu? Does anything practically change when it comes to the daily occupation, to policies of apartheid?
Speaker: on Are the Democrats just still in this delusional state that they can somehow turn this around if just a more liberal-leaning Israeli official gets elected? So the idea of a liberal liberal Zionism is an oxymoron.
Speaker: yeah So it doesn't matter who. I mean, that to now is is is is I think it's it's it's it's fair to to to expect him to win again. um I think it's ridiculous to accept to to expect that he won't, but you never know. But even if he does lose and somebody else takes his place, there is no left.
Speaker: In other words, when somebody wants to a slander, when one politician wants to slander an opponent, they say, you're a lefty, you're an Arab lover. You know, that is the worst thing you can tell someone. You don't want to kill Hamas. You don't want to kill Hezbollah. know, that's what they do. So it doesn't matter who sits. And the only reason they are running against each other is because everybody wants the prime minister's seat.
Speaker: In terms of their policy, there are no ideological differences. So that's one thing. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses, but again, he's he's i don't I can't believe that it's hard to expect that he will lose.
Speaker: um Now, in terms of what's happening here, you know we have meetings, I have meetings on the Hill, and they do come up with this, you know, oh but there's two-state solution. um and And so when I hear that, you know I like to ask three questions.
Speaker: First of all, if you look at the West Bank, It actually no longer exists. There are pockets of Palestinian population within what used to be the West Bank, and the vast majority of it is now de facto part of Israel. and In other words, Israelis who live in the West Bank, in most of the West Bank, in the cities, in the towns, in the farms, in the villages, and they go to university there, or go to the gym, go to the malls, they're not considered settlers.
Speaker: These are our mainstream Israelis. settlers are the one yeah the Settlers are the ones who live like right in the heart of Hebron or you know those guys, these Ben-Gvir types. So how is this going to work? Where exactly are the is the border going to come? Where are you going to so create a Palestinian state when so many Israelis are already, where Israel has de facto taken over?
Speaker: Number two, um Who gets the bigger part and who gets the smaller part? In other words, how is that going to be determined? There's two-state solution.
Speaker: The vision is the West Bank and Gaza will somehow be a Palestinian state, right? And the vast majority of Palestine, the 80 percent, will be will be given to the colonizers. So how is that determined? Why not do it the other way around?
Speaker: Maybe Israel should be the small state and Palestine should be. You know what i mean? How is that going to be determined? Why are we expecting that Palestinians agree to this to this kind of a format? Would it even be feasible to govern a state that small?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous. And then the third question is, what are the virtues of a two-state solution? What are the virtues of a two-state solution is you know as opposed to a real democracy with equal rights, a totally liberated Palestine with a right of return?
Speaker: What are the virtues? And all three questions, when I ask these questions, no one has any answers. There are no answers. But the two-state solution is a fig leaf. that people like to wear and use to so to hide the fact that they're actually supporting the apartheid state, that they support this idea of completely destroying the Palestinian people, destroying you know Palestine as we know it. And you mentioned the holy places, and I'm glad you mentioned them, because people do not realize what is happening. you know The Ibrahimi Mosque in in Hebron, in Al Khalil, was given now
Speaker: the the The settlers were given full administrative rights to that. They can do whatever they want, and they've been abusing, and they've been going into the mosque, and they've been you know walking in with their shoes. and i mean It's been going on for years.
Speaker: that and palestinia and they And they have free access. When Palestinians want to go into the mosque, they have to go through like a whole you know checkpoint after checkpoint after checkpoint after checkpoint, if they are even allowed to get in to the mosque.
Speaker: Settlers go in and out freely, you know, and the same process is now taking place in Al-Aqsa. You know, the idea of building a temple, a Jewish temple, so-called Jewish temple, used to be a fringe idea.
Speaker: um For the last 10 years, hundreds of thousands in israel of Israelis go on to the Al-Aqsa compound as ah you know to do these tours with that are run by the settlers.
Speaker: And I've gone on these tours a few times just to see what they say, just to hear what what the deal is. You know, they dream of the day that this will be all destroyed. And they even have a model as you walk towards the, you know, into the into the into the compound. There's a huge model of what the stemple is going to look like. They're serious about this. It's become a national symbol.
Speaker: We need to have the stemple because that will be That will be the the the epic moment of Zionism, when we are now 100% back and so on and so forth. So this is taking place.
Speaker: This is taking place. It's called the Hebronization of Al-Aqsa. And now they want to take away the the caretakership of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on the holy places.
Speaker: They want to kick them out. Not that they do much, but it's a... I've seen a bunch of radical proposals, including that, either come from the Trump administration or the Israelis. I feel like they're just throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what will stick, what gets pushed back. They poke and prod on these issues.
Speaker: They're very serious. They're very serious. And, you know, it's a gradual thing. Moving moving the American embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital.
Speaker: You know, that was a huge victory for the Zionists. and And in the past, people would say, oh my God, if we did that, you know, the Arab world, the Muslim world will stand up. And they were, you know, they had a conference in Istanbul of the Muslim countries and they, and they you know, that's it.
Speaker: No one's going to stand up. And then one day, We're going to see it If nobody intervenes, we are going to see the end of that place. We're going to see the end of Al-Aqsa. And if somebody was born and raised in Jerusalem and has been there, I can tell you that that will be a great one of the greatest losses for the first civilization.
Speaker: It's one of the most, i don't know if you've had the chance to be there, but it is one of the most beautiful, most inspiring, spiritual, old stories. you know old structures in the world. it's it's far great I've seen the Taj Mahal. It doesn't compare. I've seen you know all these other places, these great places, ah you know ah Notre Dame and all these famous places.
Speaker: this is They don't even come close. You know, I would love to go there. i would be surprised if I could. Yeah, if they let you in. One day, inshallah, right? One day, inshallah. All right, quick question for you. I got two last ones, and then we can wrap it up because we're going over. honor We've seen polls that public, and hitting on this again, we've seen polls that that public opinion in Israel is just overwhelmingly pro pro-war.
Speaker: even among critics of Netanyahu. What's going on in the Israeli mind right now? What's the public perception of the declining U.S. views on Israel, the ceasefire with Iran?
Speaker: Where do the Israelis see this going? Oh, as a disaster. a huge strategic mistake, a disaster, putting the entire world at at danger you know in danger, and on and on and on. I mean, the commentary across the board, all the politicians across the board, and in the media across the board, and public opinion across the board.
Speaker: you know How dare they make this deal with Iran? This is even worse than the deal that President Obama made, and on and on and on. They want this war. And they are saying, and this is coming from major figures within the cabinet, within the Israeli government, we have to untie this bond with the United States and do what we feel is best for us.
Speaker: In other words, war is better, they're saying, than the connection with the United States, which is completely suicidal. But that's where they are right now.
Speaker: That's what the commentary is. Israel and America were the last two holdouts in opposing or boycotting apartheid South Africa. um America turned...
Speaker: It was just Israel. I think if America can turn on this, if the politicians listen to the popular polling in America, Israel will be in for a surprise if they lose the American support. I think this is the last thread of the string we're seeing. um All right, shifting to our last question.
Speaker: ah Thank you for your service, your long service in the anti-genocide, ah pro-Palestinian, pro-Israeli joint human rights vision, this one state solution, equal rights for all. I know that scares a lot of people in the Netanyahu government. How do you see the current state and future of this movement with activism, particularly in the U.S.?
Speaker: What is your organization looking forward to in the next five years?
Speaker: Well, I don't, I i certainly don't want to to wait five years. I mean, know our vision is to get this thing done as quickly as possible. So five years is a long time, especially when we've seen the last three years. And so if we let this continue five more years, we are in big trouble.
Speaker: um But on the positive side, you know, the all the different groups, particularly here in Washington, that work for this cause, you know everybody is working much more closely.
Speaker: Everybody is targeting in their own way, you know in their own path, but targeting the same idea, targeting the same the same people that need to be targeted, that need to be moved.
Speaker: you know Keeping ah our finger on the pulse of what is happening in the capital. We're just literally a few blocks away from the capital. So like I said, you should come visit. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker: But I mean, there the work that we're doing now, and we, I mean, all of us in this in this struggle is much more effective. um We see the results, we see these fractures, you know, broadening, becoming bigger.
Speaker: And if this takes us five more years, then I think we're doing something wrong. this cannot last five more years. I mean, the the destruction of the Palestinian people, the suffering, the torture in the prisons, the reality in Gaza, to think that this is going to go on five more years is horrifying. it's a It is. can't imagine it going on that long. And to add just one more aspect to this, the state, the apartheid state, the state of Israel internally,
Speaker: is crumbling. The education system is bankrupt. The health care system is bankrupt. The police are corrupt. The judicial system is politicized. Nobody trusts them. The military, we saw how incompetent they were on October 7th.
Speaker: You know, a bunch of a bunch of fighters from the poorest place and the most oppressed place in the world, where you can't get a a glass of clean water, came up and completely paralyzed them.
Speaker: you know And so the military is is is is incompetent, the intelligence apparatus is incompetent, and people are beginning to realize that the state is like, there's no source of safety, there's no there's no net. you know And all they can do is go ahead and murder lots of civilians. Okay, but that doesn't that doesn't change anything. Internally, this state is crumbling. So what we're trying to propose is we know that this collapse is coming.
Speaker: And the worst thing that we will the worst thing would be if it collapses and creates a vacuum. If there is no plan in place for the transition from apartheid to a democratic liberated Palestine, that that is a scary scenario.
Speaker: So what we want to do is have a plan in place and say, well, here is what we need to do and preempt the chaos, preempt the void. I know there are actors even further right in Israel than Netanyahu that would love to take its place, that would love to exploit the situation, bring on even a worse situation or government.
Speaker: It's so important that as support for this government crumbles, that we have organizations like the Palestine House of Freedom putting out this vision where there can be one state on one land with two different peoples,
Speaker: that have the same rights and honestly a number of shared values that are overlooked. um your your Your service to this mission is incredibly important. Can you tell our audience how to get in touch with the Palestinian House of Freedom?
Speaker: Sure, we have a presence on social media and people can always message us. They can go to our website, PalestineHouseOfFreedom.org or in Arabic, Darah Horea.org and sign up for a newsletter. And we're right here, we're open to the public. So if anybody goes to, you know, between the capital and Eastern market,
Speaker: you know There's a buzzer upstairs, you're buzzed, then you can come in, take a look. Like I said, we have a huge space here. We have art, we have, like i said, events coming up. we have We're hosting a an alternative Fourth of July on the Fourth of July here.
Speaker: So anybody who wants to celebrate or recognize the Fourth of July in a different way, We're going to be here for that. um And everybody's welcome here, 100%. hundred percent And, you know, other Palestinian or ah all of our allies use the space free of charge. So if anybody wants to host an event, collaborate on an event, or just have their own private gathering here in our space, and everybody's already been here. So I'm just kind of...
Speaker: restinstating you know restating this. It's free and all they need to go on the website and and fill up a request form. yeah So we're here for people. Space and time is one of the most expensive things in DC.
Speaker: So i would I would ask everyone to take Miko up on that kind offer. All right. Well, Miko Pele, director of the Palestine House of Freedom, author of The General Sun and Injustice, ah chronicling your own transformation, your own activism.
Speaker: we We thank you so much for joining our program today. And you know we encourage our audience to look out for our next episode and to make sure to follow CARE, subscribe,
Speaker: and you know keep the activism up because there there is an end to this if we work towards it and a benefit for everyone if we do. All right, with that, assalamu alaikum.
Speaker: Thank you, alaikum salam. Thank you. right, thank you. Bye.
