Transcript
Speaker: Islamophobia intensifies during election cycles. These are coming from top bottom with funding going toward the marketing of this phenomenon. Why is it happening now? The Israeli Ministry of Foreign and Affairs increased the Hasbara budget to $730 million. $730 million buys you a lot of Islamophobic sentiment. How do you think Muslim politicians have been handling that sort of attack? I think it's very important to take stock of Islamophobia, but don't jump into the mud because Muslims as a marginalized minority do not have yet the institutional power to make people think twice before they engage in such racist attacks, that there will be a price to be paid publicly. Should American Muslims are making a greater effort to reach out to conservative voices? Muslims need to engage without also sanctioning some of the problematics. To win Muslimness while also losing the rights of blackness in the society is not a win.
Speaker: Bismillah alhamdulillah wa salatu wa salam ala rasulullah. Assalamu alaikum, may peace be upon you. Welcome everyone to today's episode of Care On Air, Beyond the Courtroom and Behind the Headlines. I'm your host today, Edward Ackman Mitchell, Deputy Director of the Council on American Islamic Relations. Thank you for joining us. As you all know, if you have a social media account, if you own a television set, ah Anti-Muslim Hate,
Speaker: in our country is out of control. We've got members of Congress calling for the literal destruction of quote unquote mainstream Muslims for banning or criminalizing the practice of Islam, expelling muslim Muslims from our country. And at the same time, you're seeing violence rising against American Muslims, including the horrific ah white supremacist terror attack on the Islamic Center of San Diego this year that killed three members of the American Muslim community. May God grant them paradise.
Speaker: So why is this happening? Why is anti-Muslim hate in at least some corners of our country on the rise? What is causing it? Is it a natural occurrence? Is it manufactured? um What should the American Muslim community be doing about it? What should other Americans who oppose hate against any community be doing about this? And where does all this end? Is this just a flare up or is this something that is going to become the new norm for the United States, for our country, just a persistent um current of anti-Muslim bigotry? To discuss these things, very happy to have on our guest, Dr. Hatem Bazian, who is an expert in Islamophobia, a teaching professor at UC Berkeley. Many of you have seen his lectures, his writings. This is, ah he is the man when it comes to understanding anti-Muslim hate. We're happy to have him here. As-salamu alaykum, Dr. Bazian. are you doing? As-salamu alaykum, it's pleasure to be with you. um
Speaker: Thank you for joining us on Care On Air. So let's you know dive right in. So number one you've been studying this for decades. You've lived it personally. um What is your assessment of the state of anti-Muslim bigotry?
Speaker: and And that could be referring to the the negative sentiments towards Muslims. It could refer to the acceptability of anti-Muslim bigotry. However you want to describe what's the state of anti-Muslim hate in our country right now, and how would you compare it to years past, like after nine eleven after the Muslim ban and ISIS running wild? like How do you assess where we are right now? And then we'll talk about what's causing it, what to do about But just what's your assessment of where we are right now? Well, we're experiencing an intense Islamophobic period.
Speaker: and this period is filtering from the top to the bottom in media, in political leadership, and across the board. So we are in, if you want to use color gradation, I don't like to do that, but it's definitely we're in an intensive care period.
Speaker: ah of Islamophobic anti-Muslim bigotry on a national and I would also extend it international level especially in Europe I just returned from teaching abroad so the same phenomena is being experienced in in Europe as well as in in the United States.
Speaker: got All right, so then that begs of the question, why? what is What is causing this increase? Obviously, if you were ask, why did anti-Muslim hate go up after 9-11? There's an obvious answer. you know A terrorist attack occurred, perpetrated by Al-Qaeda, which you know identified as a Muslim organization. And so people, you know naturally and wrongly though, but predictably, there was a backlash against everyday Muslims. So you kind of explain why it happened then.
Speaker: Why is it happening now?
Speaker: Contrary to popular opinion, not that we put stock in it, but Islamophobia intensifies during election cycles. So the data is almost consistent.
Speaker: in the United States, in Canada, in France, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands. So across the board, Islamophobic, anti-Muslim, bigotry, hate, violent incidents, burning Quran incidents, attacking physically Muslims or sites that are associated with Muslimness, it spikes around election cycles.
Speaker: which also have to get us to understand that these are instrumentalized processes coming from top bottom with ah machination and funding going toward the marketing of this phenomena.
Speaker: right So it is not really bubbling up from a grassroots or organically formed. These are literally paid instigators, paid actors that are engaged in Islamophobic discourses. And you say why it's taking place in particular at this point, I would say we have many different pieces that are adding up simultaneously.
Speaker: One, the ongoing genocide in Gaza has actually ah intensified the focus on the role of Israel, the role of AIPAC, the role of foreign policy as it relates to Gaza.
Speaker: The research that was done by the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs have identified that Israel standing in the West, United States, Europe, ah is actually has been identified with the genocide.
Speaker: However, when the notions or the ideas about jihadism, Islamic terror, Islamism, and so on, Western public opinion shifts by about 20 percentage point.
Speaker: So in this sense, it was not coincidental that literally within three weeks of that research and data, We will get the ah Governor Abbott in Texas ah beginning to launch literally Islamophobic attacks on his own population, Muslim population with the epic center.
Speaker: Dr. Bazian, you're discussing the the poll the Dropside News covered last year. And the report you know revealed that the Israeli foreign ministry was serving Western countries to see what people thought of Israel. It found that there were very negative views of Israel because of the genocide in Gaza. But as you noted, that um views of Israel would rebound by 20 points once the respondents were prompted to fear, you know, jihad, the Muslim next door, et cetera. And so, you know, tell us again, what what do you think, um how do you think that poll that Mark Penn's firm conducted has affected what we're seeing now in terms of anti-Muslim hate in Western countries.
Speaker: Now that that poll also is can be linked to the increase in the Hasbara budget for this year. The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs have increased by five-fold the Hasbara budget to $730 million. So $730 million buys you lot.
Speaker: seven hundred thirty million buys you a lot a lot of Islamophobia and a lot of Islamophobic sentiment. So it's not coincidental that we see the shift that occurs in the deployment of Islamophobic discourses, anti-Muslim bigotry at the highest level.
Speaker: It accelerates the emergence of the anti-Sharia caucus in Congress, which if you mirror it, it's almost at the same time period.
Speaker: So that's a major driver at this point. And now this is built on an Islamophobic industry that is already or heavily ah has been associated with the pro-Israel cluster of organizations, of individuals, of think tanks, and so on. So you could say that the link almost is instantaneous between the Haspara Network, the Israeli foreign Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Islamophobic organizational infrastructure, which again, CAIR have done considerable work in identifying the ah cluster of organization, 37 organization of the center, and then a cluster around it.
Speaker: So that's what we are seeing in here in terms of how Islamophobia becomes driven by an attempt to shift the discussion and the focus from genocide, Israeli genocide in Gaza, to a threat of Muslimness in the Western sphere.
Speaker: Now the second part of the driver is the the driver within the Republican Party itself. ah and especially in here we're speaking about coming up to the midterm election, and the Republicans don't have much to show for the broader American public. Yes, you could have um Trump counting on the mega base, but that's not sufficient to win and shift the seats in the midterm election.
Speaker: So in affordability, ah you cannot campaign on affordability. You can't campaign that the tariffs that have been instituted have made American lives better.
Speaker: It's also added to it the fact that the president has bought 300,000 pounds of beef from Argentina to rescue the Argentinian beef industry, which actually is hitting the American farmers and ranchers who are seeing that their ah resources are being channeled to Argentina to rescue Argentina at a time where they are hurting.
Speaker: So you cannot really campaign on that. You can campaign on gas prices. You can campaign on the Epstein files. Especially yesterday, Congressman Massey read on the floor 14 names of individuals, and i think he's introducing a bill with Rolk Hanna for demanding, this is the second bill, to demand the release of close to 3 million plus files of the Epstein. So you really, that's still hanging there, especially on the right and possibly the center. It's an important issue that fractured the mega base.
Speaker: And then you have the big elephant that the Republicans are staring at, which is the Iran war. It's unpopular from day one. ah It's definitely identified that the U.S. entered into a voluntary war based on the pressure from Israel and Netanyahu.
Speaker: And we are still seeing opposition ah in taking place at this particular time. So these are the issues that the Republicans have as policy, and each one of them is a failure.
Speaker: So if you have a failure in policy, you try to what you call shift the conversation. And the conversation, I wrote an article recently about Muslim Inc. using Monster Inc.
Speaker: ah film as a way to try to actually use fear and scapegoating and bigotry as a way to try to fill the tanks off because you don't have the tanks on the policy level are completely empty so that's what we are seeing and unfortunately the democrats who are biting on still wanting to push the israel first or the israel policy are likewise jumping on the van wagon of islamophobia for their own centrist particular reasons so i don't want to absolve the democrats from critique
Speaker: on also peddling in Islamophobia as well. So, you know, that that reminds me, you know, in recent weeks, you've seen this very heavy criticism of Hassan Piker, you know, over these debated remarks that he made.
Speaker: But when you compare that to the response to what, you know, someone like Laura Loomer has said, Randy Fine has said, Andy Ogles, Brandon Gill, I mean, on a Nancy Mace, on a daily basis, you've got people who are saying stuff about Muslims that if they said it about Jewish people, the FBI probably be at their doorstep.
Speaker: And rightfully so. um And so, you know, and you don't see that same response from even the democratic leadership in terms of pushing back against that. Is that why is that? Is that because you think maybe anti-Muslim bigotry is still tolerated, acceptable, um or they just or they don't feel like Muslims have enough political power yet to matter?
Speaker: in a way that we're not going to respond to it, you know, forcefully because we don't really need to care that much about the Muslim voter yet. What what are your thoughts on why we we still see that lack of response to indisputable anti-Muslim bigotry?
Speaker: It's a combination. I don't think we could put our finger to say it's only one thing. I would say the following. When people are expressing bigotry, scapegoating and racism toward a marginalized community and reflecting and amplifying discourse of power, they are not taken to task.
Speaker: So in here, both on the the Republican side or the Democrat side, they both are amplifying the discourse of political power, using Foucault in terms of as a discourse. So this is what we are seeing. So when they are attacking ah what the...
Speaker: state or the dominant structure have identified to be the problem from a discourse, therefore they're not taken to task. And you could see that in the media, the questions that are being asked to to Muslim candidates reflecting the dominant narrative.
Speaker: It's no coincidence that the media is often spoken of as the Fifth arm of the state and meaning that it is actually embedded within the priority and not to use Chomsky since he appears in the Epstein files All right that the role of the media is to manufacture consent so we have to take into account how the discourse from a mega narrative is actually amplifying this and not actually taking to task. It's almost on the margin that is the challenge to this discourse. So Laura Numer, or ah Laura,
Speaker: forgetting her last name now. Nancy Mays, Laura Loomer, Randy Fine, Andy Ogles. yeah Yeah, but it's also reflecting on what is coming directly from the White House. Trump has always also amplified this aspect of anti-Muslim sentiment in Islamophobic discourse.
Speaker: Now on the second track of this, that Muslims as a marginalized minority, as a target minority, as a scapegoated minority, do not have yet the institutional power to actually ah ah make people think twice before they actually engage in such racist attack. And that's also in terms of building power base in order for people to actually ah if they decide to use Islamophobic and anti-Muslim sentiments as a way to gain votes or to position themselves in society, that that there will be a price to be paid publicly.
Speaker: Which means that we are living in an Islamophobic social imaginary which means that they the toleration of bigotry as a normative practice taking place, and it's up to also Muslims and their allies to begin to actually organize institutionally to make sure that this Islamophobic social imagery is not maintained and actually is reversed. And it will take some time.
Speaker: Knowing that it spikes over election period and then drops during the periods of drop, that's where a lot of the heavy work that needs to take place in order to reverse. And and I'm hoping as more Muslims into enter into the public arena, more Muslims get elected, and more Muslims demonstrate their readiness to lead,
Speaker: not because they're Muslim, but because they are qualified to lead, Zahra Mamdani, Sayyid and Ilhan Omar, Rashid Tuleib and others, that will actually begin to actually shift both the public discourse, but also at the local level. All politics is local.
Speaker: And I think what we need is to make sure that we begin to deepen our roots in so in society in order for us to make sure that Islamophobia and anti-Muslim sentiments do not sink into ah the muddy ground that is already plowed historically, both in terms of anti-black racism, anti-Latinos, anti-Asians, and so on. so we are we are dealing with a ground that is already fertilized to demonize the other. So it's a lot of work that has to be done
Speaker: by us, without consenting to blaming the victim for the fact that they are not powerful. So I'm not at all blaming the victim that the Muslims is because you are the problem. No, I'm saying that part of the work is to constantly engage in empowering yourself in the society and connect with people who are like-minded and have a priority of creating what I call the good society.
Speaker: So, you know, this brings up an important topic, which is the political progress that American Muslims have made in recent years, including, you know most famously the election Zeran Mamdani last year.
Speaker: And you've also now had, I think, the the fourth or fifth member of Muslim member Congress elected, Aisha Wahab out in California. And then last cycle was Latifah Simon. You've got Rashida and Ilhan there. And obviously there are Muslims running for office right now. We do not endorse candidates, so I won't say their names, but there are Muslims running for office. um Right now, you know, is um is that political engagement contributing to the backlash? In other words, are are is the the anti-Muslim industry, you know, deciding that, you know, we've got to step up anti-Muslim bigotry to undercut these Muslims running for and winning elected office.
Speaker: um and how do you think Muslim politicians have been handling you know that sort of attack? or the you know Because you know you really don't see them, as far as I can tell, necessarily taking it on head-on. It seemed like Zoran Mamdani, near the end of his campaign, he gave that speech addressing Islamophobia you know when it really hit a fever pitch, when Andrew Cuomo was making remarks about nine eleven and that's when Zoran Mamdani just really took on the issue of Islamophobia. But it seems like the candidates generally just try to focus on you know affordability, economic issues, and it's almost like we have to be Muslim, but that's not the key issue. How do how do you think they're handling Is that an effective strategy, Muslim elected officials? What do you think? I do think it's an effective strategy because at the end of the day,
Speaker: ah both Islamophobia and racism in general, is to distract people from the bread and butter and the policy-oriented issues that benefit and ah provide a way for everyone to be living in a healthy society.
Speaker: So it's not coincident that Netanyahu from the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs and the Foreign Ministry or the Republican Party or Centrist Democrat, they want to take us down to discuss ah ah creeping Sharia, ah the halal shawarma that you are having, the all this instrumentalization of fear. So it's literally grounded in fear. So you would not actually begin to discuss the issues that are of importance. So I would say that our candidates, while...
Speaker: every once in a while they have to express some pushback around the Islamophobic content, but they immediately are making the pivot to the critical issues. I think Sayyid has been masterful in shifting the discussion. I think Zahram Mamdani likewise has been very instrumental in shifting the discussion, focusing on the issues that he's advocating, Ilhan Omar, Rashid Tuleib and others. So I think it's very important to take stock of Islamophobia but don't actually jump into the mud that is being created because in essence the mud is intended to take you away from your messaging taking you away from your or campaign taking you away from its very importance now I would have to say the following I do think that the Islamophobic discourse is no longer registering
Speaker: ah in such a way to effect elections as it used to be possibly 10 15 years ago. Especially, i think, the Zohran Mamdani, they threw on him the sink in terms of Islamophobic content.
Speaker: Now we're experiencing in a Sayyid's campaign in Michigan. And I do think the reasons for this are very well present, whether it's the increasing people's consciousness about what has taken place in Gaza, but also in the Iran war and in the region.
Speaker: The fact that also the promises of affordability have collapsed. So whether you're in fearful of Muslims or not is not really registering. And I do think in particular on the right, the mega, who have been the literally the ah foot soldiers, if you want say, with the Islamophobic discourse, ah the Epstein files and the Epstein promises is hanging heavy.
Speaker: in the minds of people and on what they were promised. Remember, from even before 2020, end of the campaign, from all the way the election twenty twenty four the mega was promised that on day one, the files will be released, all the pedophilia in the Democratic Party will be exposed, the Clintons will be exposed, the ah IT or the tech industry that are also intermixed in the pedophilia and the secret societies will be exposed. That was four years of literally stalking the base of the mega. And then they come into office
Speaker: And Bandi says there is no files. ah that ah Kesh Patel says there is no files. Now, I would say that Trump and the MAGF created their own undoing by promising and creating this, what you call, imaginary themselves.
Speaker: And then as soon as they got in power, they literally, they then switched. So it switched on people. And now it's a drip, drip, drip. They haven't learned learned anything from the Nixon Watergate.
Speaker: A drip, drip approach will only keep the issue alive. Had they released the files on day one, I think they would have been able to survive because everybody literally whatever Trump wants he will get even if he said if I shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue they will still support me and I think they have committed you call hundred and we thought he was exaggerating but I think it turns out quite accurate it's quite accurate so I think they have completely mismanaged this file and now that fractured the megabase
Speaker: And as such, I don't think it's registering because as soon as you talk about ah creeping Sharia, Islamophobia, and so on, affordability, and this is what I think i say it said on CNN, they tried to get him to bite on responding to J.D. Vance.
Speaker: He didn't. He just literally shifted and spoke about affordability, about health care, about where the American public, and I think that's the winning message, both in for...
Speaker: ah Muslim political figures how to handle and not to actually take the bait by engaging in discourses so you begin to actually try to defend and argue and poise that the American public that's not their core issues. right So I think it's a very important for us to understand why we're pushing and trying to understand the Islamophobic sentiments that we have is not to fall victim where the strategy of our opposition becomes our core ah campaign issues. And I think that's the challenge that we have.
Speaker: Dr. Bazin, let me ask you about the conservative dynamic when it comes to Islamophobia, because we have seen over the past year or two some conservative voices, you know, saying openly, i was hoodwinked. I was convinced that Muslims were the enemy.
Speaker: I had to worry Muslim neighbor next door. And I realized i was lied to that the real threat is the corrupt politician taking my taxpayer dollars and using it to to kill children overseas. So, you know, if you look at, for example, someone like Tucker Carlson, who was, you know, pretty hostile, you know, I would say to Muslims and it's still, you know, I would say many Muslims disagree with many of his views that he holds about immigration and other such things. But he has, you know, been really open minded in recent months and years about the issue of anti-Muslim hate. ah Marjorie Taylor Greene was, you know, she was Randy Fine before Randy Fine. I mean, she was harassing Muslim members of Congress. She was saying all sorts of wild stuff about Muslims um and not that long ago.
Speaker: And now she's, you know, and I here in Georgia, you know, she's from Georgia. I'm from Georgia. Completely different um in terms of her discourse about Muslims and kind of acknowledging that, you know, she also was tricked to worry more about her Muslim neighbor, um you know, was praying five times a day compared to, you know, a foreign government committing genocide with our taxpayer dollars.
Speaker: And then Megyn Kelly, who is still, you know, i think hostile to Muslims, but even she in recent months has, you know, seemed to indicate, you know, she's rethinking, have I really um been fair in terms of my views about, you know, Muslims in general?
Speaker: And so what do you what what are your thoughts on that dynamic? Should American Muslims be making a greater effort to reach out to and engage with conservative voices who might be very hostile to Muslims?
Speaker: Um, but maybe because they just don't know any Muslims directly. They just kind of bought what they've seen from Fox news and ISIS and Trump, and that's all they know. What, what do you think? Is that something worth pursuing and and how?
Speaker: Well, uh, I'm not the person that says you don't pursue engagement with any sector of the society, but it's a matter of resources and, uh, abilities to reach in the broader sense. I don't think that we're able to go and reach, you know, there's about 335, maybe 340 million. So there's no way that we'll be able to reach the 340 million to transform everyone.
Speaker: I do think that the fracture on the right is a direct outcome of failure of policy. alright The policy, and as that's what I focus, that the policy within the Trump administration, they were promised the release of the files. They did not deliver.
Speaker: They were promised no more forever wars because Trump specifically critiqued the Iraq war, the intervention that cost us close to, you know,
Speaker: a conservative estimate possibly nine to ten trillion dollar so he promised no more wars no more interventions and so on that there is gonna gonna be America first so the fact that some of the those on the right have begun to recognize that the Stoke bigotry that is there was it specifically Stoke bigotry that does not have really legs to stand on. It's astroturf type of bigotry that was there.
Speaker: And I think increasingly that debate is occurring. And I do think that the right wing and the mega, including some of the evangelicals that are beginning to reassess their positionality in terms of engaging in politics and where they are.
Speaker: So Muslims need to continue to be aware of the debate, engage wherever that engagement without also sanctioning some of the problematics. We're still dealing with heavy, heavy load of racism that exists on the right.
Speaker: And we cannot literally close our eyes and to think just because we could win on a particular notion of Muslimness that we forget that there is heavy anti-blackness that are there, that the assault on civil rights is there, the assault on voter rights, the immigration rights, all these are there. So we have to be able to assess not in a narrow construct, but also to be able to actually argue on larger principles and not let go of what I consider to be foundational issues.
Speaker: For me, to win Muslimness while also losing the rights of blackness in the society is not a win. It's basically a very momentary ah elation for the fact that the hammer is not on your head, but there is a bigger hammer that is actually hitting all of us simultaneously. I will be cautious of celebrating certain fractures on the right and taking it as a transformative moment for both Muslims and the history of our country.
Speaker: Roger that, Roger that. um Going forward, and again, so without mentioning particular candidates, as we don't support or oppose candidates, but let's say for the sake of argument that some of the Muslims running for office this year um lose. um you know What effect do you think that has on anti-Muslim bigotry? Does that kind of send a signal that it works? you know It can be still effectively used in politics. Or on the flip side, if some of the Muslims running for office win,
Speaker: um You know despite facing anti-muslim bigotry, you know, what is the impact on that or do you think it no impact whatsoever? Even if these people win They'll still be anti-muslim bigotry being used to try to undermine them in office. what What do you think the the future? ah It all depends on again as you know elections are determined by how much money you have So we have the best democracy that money can buy and I know that ah Michigan seat is being contested. The Senate seat with the Sayyid and Rogers is being contested, not because of a Sayyid in particular Michigan, because it might end up determining who will have the majority in the Senate.
Speaker: right So the shift in the balance of power between Democrats and Republicans ah is sitting on the Senate seat in Michigan, possibly also Alaska and a couple of others. Texas is in play.
Speaker: So I don't want for us to think that the winning seat or the losing seat will end Islamophobia or that it will intensify as such. I think Islamophobia is with us for the long deray because it has been monetized into votes at the ballot box, sometimes more, sometimes less.
Speaker: I think in 2008 where Islamophobia began to be monetized at the ballot box, it completely failed because the society, the American public, was tired of the war in Iraq and literally wanted to shift and elected Barack Hussein Obama, a very difficult name to have on a national election cycle. And also, need to remind you, Hillary Clinton used this Islamophobia first against Barack Obama to try to insinuate that he is a closet Muslim. Then the Republican picked it up.
Speaker: And then 2010, they were able to actually succeed the because they ah literally threw massive amounts of resources and they used the Ground Zero mask as a rallying point.
Speaker: And literally after the day after the election, there was no more stories about Ground Zero Moss. So it's literally, it is a cell it's ah an item that is selected to drive a wedge to reduce the turnout of voters from your opponent and increase the turnout from your base. So that's what I expect in this election cycle. Win or lose, it is part of the dynamics. But what's important is that win or lose have we been able to actually increase our engagement our participation our deeper commitments to the political landscape and the social public landscape and I think no matter what we are actually beginning to see this and money is not sufficient at this point especially ah
Speaker: Aisha Wahab from the California 14th District, AIPAC pumped $8 million dollars in the last a piece of her campaign, yet she was able to win in her district. Of course, she has been very effective.
Speaker: She's had plowed the ground. in such a way that she was able to register the victory. It might have affected the percentage of the victory and again this is a ah cycle outside presidential election so turnout usually is very is less but nevertheless she was able to defeat an overwhelmingly funded campaign against her.
Speaker: So that's what I would see that where we are at. Islamophobia is going to be with us. Win or lose is there. But I think our ability to continue to shape our presence across the board. We're going to win some and lose some.
Speaker: Dr. Bhaazin, want to thank you for joining us and sharing those perspectives. you know As I look back to history and I think about what Catholics went through you know in their long journey to become you know fully visible, participating member of society,
Speaker: They went through a long period where they were you know called unwelcome, you know untrustworthy, disloyal, dirty. Their religion was attacked and denigrated. Catholic churches were being firebombed. Yesterday was actually I was lecturing specifically about you know the Catholics. Their churches were being attacked, firebombed. They could not go to school. So that's why the Catholics invested in their own schooling system. Now they're the prize of this country as a Catholic institution. So there's a long history on that.
Speaker: Yes, yes. So then I i say I'd say, you know, you wonder if what lessons, you know, should we learn? And this is my last question to you. What lessons should we be learning from communities that came before us? Obviously, it's not a one to one comparison. Obviously, what the Catholics went through, what Muslims are going through, the the causes of it are different, the circumstances, there but there are some similarities, especially the rhetoric used against them. um Any lessons you think we can learn from how the Catholic community eventually overcame what was pretty entrenched, you know, significant bigotry against them?
Speaker: Yeah, well, not only, I would say that we need to learn lessons from almost every community. I draw lessons from the Catholics. The Japanese had went through a whole internment, and yet they rose up and been able to really become very important community in our society. You could speak about the Latino community, and now there are major players politically, especially in America. in various states, in California, in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, even in Florida and so on. So that's another lesson to be learned. We also can learn, again, with people would possibly not think of it, from the Jewish community. They faced massive anti-Semitism during the early part of the 20th century, and the ADL was formed around 1913, 1914, to deal with this period, but unfortunately they have abandoned the core core mission and now they're peddling in Islamophobia as a way to protect Israel.
Speaker: But there are lessons in there. My collective lesson is institutional building. That all of these communities collectively, they build an institutional capacity, they build their civil rights arm, and I do think that CARE is one of those institutions. We also learn from the black community in terms of their institutional building.
Speaker: institutions can muster a challenge, can muster and rise up to the challenges are placed in front of them. So institutional building is what's learned. Second, commitment of resources, which means that collectivity to coalesce our limited resources in order to actually rise rise up to an overwhelming challenge.
Speaker: And I think for Muslims, those resources have to be deployed correctly in ways that we'll be able to meet the challenge, whether on a civil rights front or other fronts as we speak.
Speaker: Third, I do think that deepening our engagement in the society, and very critical in terms of academically, most of our students are still going predominantly to two majors, medicine and engineering. So part of our challenge is to create a diversification of our pursuit because it will have an impact on our ability to actually have institutions and communities that are able to rise up. And then lastly is how to link with communities on what you call a common agenda.
Speaker: I do think that the Muslims have a lot to contribute in relations to the public good. right And that's, I think, where our challenge has to be of how to actually create this common good collectively.
Speaker: Well, thank you again, Dr. Bazian, for sharing all those thoughts with us, for being with us today. We do appreciate it. um Historic time we're living through. The next you know year or so will tell a lot about the future of American Muslims in our country, inshallah, democracy itself. So we look forward to continuing the conversation with you, inshallah. In the meantime, assalamu alaikum. Thank you for joining us. Wa alaikum salam.
Speaker: And thank you all for joining today's episode of Care On Air, Beyond the Courtroom and Behind the Headlines. Inshallah, we'll see you next week. In the meantime, assalamu alaikum. May peace be upon you.
