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No Trades People In TWO WEEKS | £96k Spent | Plaster Ceiling Rose | Bungalow Update | S2 EP 2 |

The DIY Guys Podcast
The DIY Guys Podcast

48 plays · Aug 7, 2026

It was all going well and then everyone disappeared! No carpenter, no plumber, no builder and even Nick didn't manage a day - a grim but real result of DIY renovating!   Dan DIY's a bespoke plaster ceiling rose and Nick's £100k budget is at 96% - eek!

Transcript

Speaker: Welcome to the DIY Guys, the podcast where home renovations, power tools and mild panic go hand in hand. I'm Nick Morris. And I'm Dan Doher. Each week, we'll be chatting with some property pros, some DIY diehards, hopefully help you with some tips and tricks along the way.

Speaker: Welcome to the DIY Guys podcast, season two. The first episode with just me and my good friend, Nick Morris. How are you doing, mate? Yeah, we made the season two. Pretty pretty impressed with us. Yeah, I am as well. This is awesome. Yeah, we're actually getting some good content now. We're getting some people emailing in and stuff. It's getting exciting. I mean, who would have thought like all those like months ago that we talked about doing this that we'll be like here and like doing 30 odd episodes yeah it's awesome and we've got lots more exciting people to interview i've been dming some people spamming some people and luckily lots of people want to come on so hopefully the next few months we can reel out a few more definitely yeah and like if anyone's got any guests that they would like to have on obviously hit us up yeah um we would love to have people on that people recommend yeah um but yeah there is some good guests in the pipeline that's for sure so what have you been up to other than my brother's wedding i saw you on friday we both had friday off and brother's wedding yeah well i worked and then came over oh yeah you weren't invited to yeah it sounds really offensive especially as you've known him 40 years know yeah it's kind of one of those things you understand with like weddings and after you've had your wedding and you've had to cut it down you like completely understand yeah you can't just have everyone there especially like you want all your friends there but family obviously does come first and then you've just got to extend out and My brother's six years older, isn't he? he's got his own group of friends. And you sort of met my brother and his friends through me. Yeah. So you're sort of like added on in a way. Yeah. But it was really good. That was boiling, though. It was so good, yeah. And just have to shout out his evening food. It was bloody amazing. Oh, you're just winding me now. So I didn't get any evening food. So went home because of Lydia. Kristen's annoyed because she was like,

Speaker: You keep going on about this evening. Oh, it's amazing. You know what I've heard about this evening? is So, to put it into context, Lydia basically woke up. Well, on Thursday, or Wednesday or Thursday, she gets, like, purple eyes when she's ill. Like, you know when you haven't slept, like, baggy eyes? Yeah. Even though she actually had slept.

Speaker: You sort of see an illness was coming me and mean Emily were like, ah no, please don't get ill. We offered to look after Chris's kids on the Thursday so they could do wedding stuff. Yeah. And they all mingled together, had a good time. was okay, she's doing fine. She woke up Friday and was just so aggy. Like, her tongue always gets these, like, white dots on them. had this massive ulcer, like, really high up that was causing her loads of pain. Her tonsils were massive. And it always happens to us if we, like, go first day of holiday yeah like...

Speaker: wedding on this occasion we're like oh why does she have to be she's the flower girl so she literally just went into a little shell when we got there yeah shy shy shy i was really reserved i'm gonna ask him chris just like don't worry she doesn't want to do it but i think because her little cousins were like page boy and one one had a bubble gun yeah my mom was obviously older just teddies seven just being an actual page boy can know what to do yeah yeah They just sheepishly walk down there she throws a little peps on it. And then she's just sort of, she's really good for a four-year-old, just like powering through. Yeah. I think she gets off Emily because I'm just more of a whiner. Emily just does power through on like two hours sleep. Yeah, but man flow is different, isn't it? Exactly. So just power through. So then literally all day she was good, good, good. And then she had that spell where she was sat on the kids' table and I didn't see her for hours. And was like, this is great. She's happy. I'm happy she's playing on the playground. Yeah.

Speaker: And then when you guys came in the evening, she just like my mum was like, oh, we're trying to get off to sleep on this like random bench at 9.30. And I was like, oh, come on, let's just go home. We've had a good day. yeah like The end of the night is obviously fun. i was going ask you about what it was like, but yeah everyone's like getting a bit drunk and stuff. it's like You don't miss too much apart from the evening food, which is amazing. ah It's like this deep dish pizza. It's soaking chips.

Speaker: and ah yeah And cupcakes and cake. I didn't even cake. Surely he brought some home. Well, he's gone straight his honeymoon. I didn't see. He went on his honeymoon today. just spoke. His kids came over on Saturday again because they went on like a little spa thing. So we looked after them again. We're totally worried now we've infected them. Like we've had their kids two of the last like four days and they're just now really and then go on their honeymoons. let's see exactly what I voted on a plane full of people but yeah so there were cupcakes I didn't even know there were cupcakes on the table they were so pretty thought they decoration apparently they were really good I heard the cake was good And there was pizza and something else? Yeah, pizza and chips. Oh, I did have some chips. Emily bought some chips. Yeah, that was so good. But yeah, the food was amazing.

Speaker: And ah obviously, were a lot of drunk people, but probably none more so than fish. Oh my God, I'll find a bit. This is just absurd, but he was on his seventh drink before the wedding reception started. Seven. I had one at that time. He got there at like, it was 3.30 wedding, which is quite, I think he got there at like 1.15 or something. Yeah, yeah. we got there at like quarter to three. literally had one beer.

Speaker: And he came out with like 3.25 with a brand new one. The wedding's for five minutes. He was like, can take it? It was outside, but in. And the woman was like, no. You've been to a wedding before? Yeah, is this supposed to be nice? Our good friend Rob pointed out was being ushered out.

Speaker: He was so drunk. He got like ushered out into the garden. We're like, oh, that's him done. Literally like 20 minutes later, he's like back on the dance floor on absolute machines. He literally barged into us. I was carrying Lydia around saying goodbye to everyone, getting her to high-five around at like 9.30. And I said goodbye to him, high-fived him, and then I went around to some family and stuff and came back out literally just like slammed into me. What did my boy do? Keep being careful. It did make me laugh. but yeah And then my brother also or my mum or someone said, there was that pizza, there was tons of it. Yeah, there was, yeah. oh What happens to that? Did the staff take or something? Well, messaged your brother. I was like, surely you took that home with And he was like, no, didn't. I guess they were going to the spa, a nice spa place, it'd be a bit random.

Speaker: After our wedding, we had pizza left over and we just took it home. I did it the next day. sun we So Emily said, I've got you some chips, but I was in the back, Emily drove and I was in the back so I a drink. um And this whole episode is going to be about food. I just love to be about food. And was like, I won't eat the chips because I'm literally, Lydia was all over the shop, just like 9.30, tired, ill. So I just sat holding her hand trying to get her off.

Speaker: Then when she fell asleep, that's what Lydia annoyed me about. I was oh, those chips stink. And thought Emily threw them out the window. was like, but she just put them down the front. was like, oh, you can't eat those. And she took ages to drift off as usual. So when she got home, I carried her up into bed. And she was like, oh, mommy, oh, mommy. But she was like in a dozy state. And just like put her on the bed. was going to say threw her. I didn't throw her on bed. Throw out the window. I put her on the bed. And then was like, mm, mm, we switch. And I just went hunting for the chips. I'm I was so sweaty. stripped off down to my pants and just the shirt, took the tie off and the trousers and everything. So I went back out to the car and I couldn't find the chips. But it turns out that Emily had already brought them in. I was like gagging for these. I know. But yes, I missed out on so much good. But the food was like proper chip shop, fat chips. I liked it. It was proper, wasn't it? Yeah.

Speaker: I love a wedding. Yeah. You can't beat it. It was such a good day as well, wasn't it? The weather was perfect. It was perfect. They literally had the reception, not brag, because you weren't there, facing the sun. Luckily, I had to witness the registrar thing, which my brother asked me saying, oh, can you come and do that boring witnessing bullshit or something? was like, classic Chris. was like, yeah, okay, fine. And it was the only shaded bits when they called me up. I was like, oh, it was amazing. Really take your time to write your name. Yeah, it was so nice. You know, like, have you ever done those situations where just get nervous for no reason? He was like, write your name, first name in lowercase and then surname all in capitals. It's such an easy thing. Yeah.

Speaker: what What about the no? The no. And I'm like, why am I talking like phonetics? Because of Lydia as well. And he's like, what? Oh, the N. Is the n small? No, no, that's a capital. then also But the old surname capital is like, yes, you idiot. yeah like I don't want to ruin it. Well, it's like immediately they're like, this is really important. Yeah. this And immediately my brain just switches off. you Yeah. Why have you done that? It's one of those posh fountain pens from school. Oh, yeah. I was like, how do you use this? You write stuff down in a lot. So yeah, I melted in more than one way. Yeah.

Speaker: But yeah, it was so fun. I love a wedding. We haven't got a wedding until maybe late next year. We've got one. No, yeah. December. Yeah. December wedding next year. You've usually got hundreds. Yeah. we Well, Chris's mates all got married at the same time. the majority of those are done, think.

Speaker: don't think we've got another one next year. But yeah, so we've got that one next year, Moffs. Yeah, that'd be good. And another Stag Do. Yeah, another Stag Do. More importantly. Yeah. And we've got a cheeky 40th trip to Riga. Yeah, in a couple of weeks we'll be off. Old man trip. Yeah, exactly. A couple of weeks. Jesus, it isn't far off. No, yeah, exactly, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, like leaving the wedding, Rob was like, oh, I'll see you in like three weeks. was like, what are you talking about? He's like, we're going away. was like, wow, I didn't realise it was so close. But yeah, have you been up to anything else exciting?

Speaker: So exciting wise, well, sorry to bring this subject back up, but the bloody foxes are back. I can't get rid of the things. thought you bought all those stuff. I'm pretty sure this is Lydia's illness, by the way, you're going to it soon. At least we're not in an enclosed space. Yeah, you can't get rid of them. I've got all those sound things put them all around the garden i've told you they don't literally yeah literally still coming in it's just infuriating now so i went into my garage which is an absolute state and just got a typical bloke where i just keep all my wooden off cuts oh yeah yeah i've got i've just like piled it up against like there's like a hole in my fence i've just piled it up against there hoping that um

Speaker: it'll keep it out and then next thing I know he's like sat on my garage roof oh man god I just need something I even Chrissy laugh at me because I even like weed down the bottom in the garden that's how desperate got and then Chrissy was like well that didn't work because looked out and there the fox was like poking its head out where I'd just done a weed so was like that doesn't work also the irony you're trying to teach your kid potty trading was like pissing all the time in the garden when I just saw you was like what could have done that because we've earlier on in the potty training where i was out with Dylan and he was like, daddy, I need a wee wee. And then like, there's nothing, nothing like more scary. You can hear your child say when you're not in your house or a toilet. So i was like, Oh, just wee on the grass. He was like, no, I don't want wee on the grass. So i convinced him to wee on the grass. After that, he bla just loves weeing on the grass. i mean now like

Speaker: We now had to like train him out of that, which he's finding out. So I'm glad he didn't see me because he probably would have come and just joined me. yeah Oh my God, potty training could be so hard. Oh yeah. He's doing all right though, isn't he?

Speaker: Yeah, he's good now. yeah oh good He's so done. I suppose he's not done through the night, but but we haven't really attempted that at the moment. but So the fox is actually coming in still as well?

Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Geez. Yeah, it came in the other day, yeah. That's so like brash these days. I thought they'd be scared of everyone. I know, it's just infuriating, isn't it? It's just like, I just don't know what to do to get rid of them.

Speaker: Surely this is the DIY. Yeah, yeah. You be able to build something. But how do you do it? Well, that's the thing. We aren't fully, like, fenced off at the bottom because it's like we've got a garage and then there's, like, a fence that slightly leans up against it, but there's loads of gaps in it, which is where they're coming from. Yeah. So I'm like...

Speaker: do I spend a load of money and fence off the bottom garden? Oh, I don't think it'll work. I think it'll just be a complete waste of time. Unless you like concrete under it. I know, exactly. They're just everywhere as well, aren't they? It's like you need to put a foot in for your fence to stop them getting through. so yeah, I really don't know what what to do, but The neighbors next door at the end of their garden, they cut down a load of trees.

Speaker: This is quite funny. So it's a rental property. And when they were swapping tenants, they were like, oh do you mind like trimming your tree down? Cause it like hangs over. was like, no, that's fine. No, I don't mind doing that. So we trimmed ours down and they like literally like blitzed their garden, but like piled it all up out the back of their garden.

Speaker: And then now they've just left it to go to that absolute pot. What's the point? Why do that? Some people just like that, though, aren't they? They just don't, know, fly tip and stuff like that. They just don't do it properly. didn't know, are tenants then responsible for flights? cutting the grass yeah yeah because they've taken responsibility for the house yeah yeah so maybe it's not the owner's fault it's the tenant's fault you could probably dump them in if you want to be that i know yeah and you're like there's always going to be that occasion where you're like oh i need to do this and do that so i don't like to bother neighbors too because there's always going to be time where like you're asking a favor yeah

Speaker: and But yeah, where they chop down everything and pile it in the backard ah like back of their garden, I feel like that's where they live. Oh, yeah. so And then they just come into our garden because it's like nicely cut down. um and So annoying. Yeah. They're literally everywhere everywhere. When Dylan went missing and I went out at night looking for him,

Speaker: was like, there's Dylan, there's Dylan. It was just literally like a dozen foxes just down our road alone, just yeah wandering about. They're not even like bin day or anything. They're just everywhere. There's literally nothing you can do, I don't think. Speaking of bin day, there was this period where ah i actually found this quite funny. This is before the foxes were invading my house. But we would put our food bin out and then the next morning I'd wake up and a fox had got into it. And that it's normally a lot annoying because it's ripped into shreds.

Speaker: gone just finished it off someone some poor bloke's garden yeah yeah some poor bloke's garden's probably got my food bin like yeah shred to i i've had food from the foxes in my garden that isn't our food it's always disgusting it i need to buy marigolds or something i'm always out there with tissue yeah yeah you own a glove company as well yeah just use your own gloves that's so true i just don't have anything here this is your farcical So yeah, we've ah been dealing with the foxes, um but I have actually been doing some DIY. nice. What have you been up to? So you know my escapades with all the COVID in our plastic COVID, in which took me ages to cut up. That's a real skill, to be fair. Yeah, that is probably the worst job I've ever done in life. Well, yeah, I've tried i tried to pay people to do it at my house and I couldn't get people to do it with money. Yeah. Like my carpenter who can do everything said no. My plasterer who's obviously done coving and stuff before and it's plaster coving refused.

Speaker: He was just like, get a coving specialist in. You're like, Jesus. Yeah, because we looked at that, but the cost to have a coving specialist. yeah. is And I ah must have been in my ah arrogant DIY phase. I was like, no, i'll do that. No worries. It took me absolutely ages.

Speaker: It looks really nice. um And then we really wanted like a plaster ceiling rose. Yeah. So, um well, I suppose i have to say it's a kind of ad. like um A company from plasterceilingroses.com. Good name. Yeah, they do. Solid. Yeah. They do lots of like coping and stuff like that. there They were really super helpful, to be fair to them.

Speaker: um But they they offered to send us a ceiling raise. Oh, wait, for free? Yeah, for free. That's awesome. How much would it have cost? I think they're about 90 quid. Oh, nice. But it was like...

Speaker: know when like someone agrees to send you something, you're like, are they going to send me like ah plot a one? a like polish diary Yeah, I thinking of. Are they going to send me one those? But it was like proper plaster.

Speaker: The quality and detail of it is amazing, to be fair. oh those play There's one in Bromley, actually. Oh, is there? Down the road. um Literally, a little warehouse tucked behind the house. and When I got my coving guy, he said he sent me there to pick up like the sand and stuff just to mix up or whatever. Yeah. And they gave it to him free because used them so many times. was just like, this place is awesome. Literally like getting like an off cut of coving from this Georgian house or whatever then making it themselves on site and bringing back. It's like that is so skilled. Oh, it's so skilled. and Absolutely so amazing. You can just tell the quality with it. It was just like something like...

Speaker: Because you never know what on the internet when stuff turns Yeah, yeah. And it was just like, delivery was easy and it just looked pucker. I did have to drill a hole in it to get the cable through for a light. Yeah. I've never been so scared in my life. nervous, yeah. I've had to do that before. I've had to when clients have paid for it. Oh, of course, yeah.

Speaker: So yeah, you'll be pleased know, drilled through, um took the light down. that you I was going to say, because I put up that light and when I saw you did that, was like, you've messed with my light. But I was actually thinking, the way I wired it I'm pretty sure that was one cable, right? Yes, it was. Because you can do it with like loads, of like three cables there. Yeah.

Speaker: Or have it at the switch with loads cables. And I've always preferred at the switch. Yeah. i was thinking, at least it's only one cable there. You pretty much can't balls that up. Well, was worried, like getting it down. I was like, yes, Nick. Yeah. Chris was like, what are you saying? I was oh, Nick's done an amazing job. so helpful. I just prefer, because it's harder. I'll bring your arms up in the air and the seat. So just like doing it all at the switch. But then sometimes actually switches can be massively like overcrowded. think I told you recently, sorry, going off on a tandem. Some guys designed a switch that's like,

Speaker: the switch is like there where my hand is. Yeah. But above it is like a secret panel for all the wires and stuff to sit. Oh, wow. So, but obviously you need to chase out double the amount. Yeah. And then it just, it's designed to then skim over or balled over or whatever. And then you've got all that room to tuck all the millions of cables. Yeah. I was going to say like, that's the worst part when you're like taking off a socket. They're either like,

Speaker: There's no cable, there's loads and you have to like proper squish it in and then it ah pops out. doesn't it Yeah, because i'm doing a well I've just finished a garden room for my brother and it's different from his usual ones because someone's actually living It's like they've got plan permission through the council. It's like a proper one with building regs and certificates everything. yeah um so it's got a little living room at the front a bedroom in the middle and a bathroom at the back and of the switch at the back had seven cables in it wow i remember thinking i was like oh this is the only way i can do it because i had to switch from the front the back i had to switch on the bathroom the main lights like the fan everything yeah it's like seven cables was like jesus about just left loads of room yeah luckily i didn't screw you over it no no i was just going down i was like amazing But um shout out to Great Escape Garden Rooms. I used their props again. Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah. So I put adhesive and then stuck it up and then used the props to hold it there. and that's a good idea. Yeah. um

Speaker: It was funny. How heavy is it as well? Yeah, it was quite... Not really heavy, but yeah, definitely. like You could feel like it was like solid. Yeah. um Yeah, Dylan Christie came in and like laughed at me because there was just like two props in the middle of my lounge just like holding up this thing. Also, you're doing this in the hot weather again. I know. You must have been sweating. Even in the house is yeah's probably cooler than mine. but if Luckily, it's at the front, and our front faces north and our garden's south facing, so that part of the house is normally quite cool. Oh, yeah. Even then, you're still like the littlest job.

Speaker: How long it take you? Oh yeah, it took me like good couple of days.

Speaker: Because that's the thing, you've got to line everything up. And I remember when I put that light in, i put a bit of timber across so we had something to into. nice. So, yeah, went through the ceiling rows into that bit of wood. So I'm like, oh, it's going to hold it up as well as the... You look a big old screw. Yeah. That's when you search for and you haven't got one. Yeah. You've got to buy like 200. I've got so many screws like that. I'm like, please use one day. And one day you're like, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: um Yeah, so plasterseelianroses.com. Completely recommend them. They're awesome. so I really want to go to that place and ask them to like, actually, can I film a place like that making it? Because I just want to see it. And I want to see when they copy one. That must be incredible. That'd be amazing. well I'd love to see that. It's such an old-fashioned skill. I'm sure there's more like machines these days. Yeah. I'd love to see the old-fashioned way of like making a mold and pouring it. Yeah. It must be such a cool thing. That was like um renovating the constabulary. Oh, yeah. Constabulary, you're right. Because she had that detail on the outside of her house and she know the guys actually made that using, like I think they made moulds from like wood and stuff. That was incredible. We've spoken about this before, but it's like that's the old old ways. I know too expensive these days, it's so much better.

Speaker: some way we're going this way yeah at least you didn't put in some rubbish i know sometimes it comes down to money yeah like some styrofoam thing because i was actually debating styrofoam doing the whole house in that styrofoam thing and um a couple people just was like it looked good for a bit and it'll just start to just go not like crack but just like bend in there especially this heat at the moment i think it'll just change shape a bit and cracking like above and below it and stuff um So instead, i I went for proper plaster coving, but I could only a afford living room, hallway, landing. That's it. And even that was so expensive. It was eight or nine hundred just to buy it.

Speaker: know, right? It was ridiculous. think ours was 200 and something quid. Like, for one room. Yeah. Because of the lengths you've got to do, and then that stuff's heavy. Yeah, all the cuts, and you need so much more. and Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, it's a cool like little skill, though. But it looks wicked, yeah. I was thinking, there's no way I've actually implemented this, but i'd love to do, like, a... proper skilled tradesmen versus us just doing the same thing. I wish we could just have like a warehouse and just be like you doing that.

Speaker: What's it called? I was going to say cornice, not cornice. Ceiling rose. Yeah, ceiling rose. So Dan versus this guy. Just to see of interest like how quickly they could do it, how better it is or whether yours is better but you did it like four times as slow. And he can like commentate on how bad of a job I did. I would so watch that. was like, how do you do this stuff?

Speaker: I was like watching videos on YouTube and they were like, oh, you make holes in some of it and then like drill it and then fill it. And was lucky I had that bit wood so could just go through where the light is held in. So I was like, oh, don't need to worry about that. But they were like, drilled this little hole, screwed in, and then he got this filler and he just went and it was immediately perfect. Oh, that's why I could never do that. I could never do that. Yeah.

Speaker: Even if I, my brain, I like do it. was like, oh, looks good. Yeah. My brain's like, touch it again. Yeah. I was like, no, I shouldn't. I'm like, yeah, just, it could do better. than I'll try. And then the hole appears. You're like, no. Just falls out. You're like, I'd say that is my worst job. I think you've said before you're like the king of the film as a joke.

Speaker: But I am awful at filling. Yeah. Absolutely awful. I don't know how, but I painted um and ah we did some new skirting, which I actually did for a change. dis natural dii ah I like with, admittedly, with my Dave's help helping me, but with his saw and stuff. But I cut the skirting and then one night in between like,

Speaker: I think we were doing like bedtime and dinner and stuff like that I like filled it really rushed it sanded it down really rushed it painted it really rushed it in between doing other stuff I was like this guy looks so crap just the paint was good or something Emily was like oh wow it looks amazing i was like It does look crazy. I was like, that doesn't ever happen with me. Usually you look back and like, this is crap. yeah i don't know what happened that night. No, no, yeah. ah No paint on the floor anything. I was like, well, must have mastered something for while. And I bet you like smashed through it as well. Yeah, because I was rushing. I'm sure I was doing bed, was my time for bedtime or something. Oh, maybe Emily was reading the books or something. Because it was such a small amount. was like, quickly go boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, yeah. i went up, did a bit and came back down. but yeah, and it actually looked good.

Speaker: Or you can come and have a look at mine because you're going to have to look at the wiring for my downstairs toilet. Oh yeah, that's fine. I can't wait to see you. I haven't been in your house in ages. I know, yeah. I can't remember last time you were at my house.

Speaker: Because also, want to see if your house has stated mine. Because last time you came around, me, you, sat with Emily for a bit. Yeah. And we saw you, like, move stuff to sit on the sofa, as usual, like kids' stuff. And then Emily left. was like, think Dan thinks we're pigs. And I was like, no, I don't think so. think he's just used to having kids' stuff. Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, yesterday, I genuinely think I tidied and cleaned for over an hour, like solid. And then this morning before I went to work, I did, like, a couple of washes just whilst I was doing other stuff, putting away washes whilst doing... And then I did all of that and I still like, oh, it still doesn't look 100%. You don't understand anything. I just can't get there. Yeah.

Speaker: It's like, how these people have like, you see online, like immaculate houses. They must just have cleaners or they're just so like on Yeah, yeah. They just do more than that hour I'm saying. Oh, no. Yeah, our house is like that as well. Just like stuff everywhere stuff.

Speaker: But in my defence, I did have Chris's two boys and Lydia for yeah two of the last four days. And an ill child. So yesterday, she just didn't want to go out. We like, you want to come to park, go to a nice cafe you like, get you ice cream?

Speaker: She's like, I want stay home. You're like, oh, i what? What about, oh, go get you a smoothie? You're like, no, i want to stay at home. You're like, oh, wow. Me and Em are like, oh, we do like our home, but we also need to like get especially weekss hot yeah get out. Only thing I could convince her to do is go on the road and learn her bike a bit more. She's literally got it, but is not confident enough to start by herself because she thinks she's going to fall. yeah um I literally hold her for a second. yeah she does two little pushes and then she can just go off as far as she wants oh that's amazing um and then but I'm just like oh why don't you just weve got a lot we're lucky to live in a cul-de-sac was like you can definitely it's really big cul-de-sac you can big tone you like turn a car in there but one turn she's like no I'm just like no but you could do like no I don't want to you're like but why don't you want to because then i was like

Speaker: starting here she's going up there waiting for me to walk up there which was easier than I thought because last time i was holding her by a shot it was so painful like bending over and running on so I thought I was going to be sweating so then she's like wait it's up there and I walk all the way up there and then I have to go back there and walk all the way back so I asked Emily to come out and she just wouldn't let Emily go in she's like no you don't know to do it I was like mummy knows her no so was like well you won't start you won't like do the little lap you won't let Emily touch her was like great I'll just do everything she was like human God bless her. She's been here and she can do can't wait for her to ride a bike. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I don't know we have to get a bike. It's a bit sad. As long you don't wear all the light grip and stuff like that. People that that annoy me so much. It's just so weird. It's so uncomfortable. Where'd you put your stuff?

Speaker: Yeah, it looks odd, doesn't it, really? I'd like to get a little bike ride with her but can't see her being... outdoorsy enough to go for any little time. What you need to do is do Centreparks, Nick. You don't have ride a bike. That's true. Centreparks so fun as well. I like Centreparks.

Speaker: I've heard the ones like in Europe are like really good. Yeah, Chris went to those before he went to did Disney Paris. said it awesome it is said it was um definitely like not as clean and like nice, but like but still really fun. Yeah, yeah. them to do Not as big and stuff, but much cheaper.

Speaker: Yeah, I've heard think third of the price or something. Wow. But yeah, so I've got a few things in the pipeline. um Well, this is not DIY, but I've asked Builder Dave to quote for my porch finally. But I don't literally don't know what it's going to be. So I actually don't have any money. It's all going to grand. So I said to Emily, Do I dare ask how you're paying Dave for this? Yeah, just stripped down. So I said to Emily, can you pay for it? And she was fuming about that. But she did say if it's like ah in and around a certain amount. But literally have no idea because we want like oak framed. Oh, lovely. And then obviously like it's because we've got this, our house is like symmetrical-ish, but it goes on an indent. So on the indent is where the pulture will be. Yeah. It's quite a big little indent. So literally...

Speaker: I have no idea what it's going cost. So would you have it just over your door or would you have it like running? Yeah, I want it running so that the opposite of an indent is like the two out of it. So it just comes out a little bit. And Emily's like, it's so unnecessary. We don't need it. And she's totally right. Yeah. But i just think it will finish it off and make the house way more, like soften it up a bit. Yeah. Because those rendered houses are a bit like striking, but like sometimes think it's a bit much easier.

Speaker: I think like a little porch, well, not a little porch, but a porch will like soften up nicely. They look wicked. like Yeah. So nice, didn't they? Genuinely, I've noticed. You get these, when I'm looking at Google, you can get these like pre-fab made ones with real oak stuff and they're like two, three, four grand. Okay. But mine's like a bigger opening. So I don't know. And that doesn't include roof tiles, roofing. Of course, yeah. Building it, like um supporting the beams in the floor, like concrete and stuff.

Speaker: So um' ah generally, hopefully it's not too ridiculous. I'd love to do that this year. Yeah, that's that's the one, but I'm just paying nothing. The other thing, like, where you've got a porch, like, we're in England, it's going to rain, like, 90 degrees all the time, although it hasn't rained for, like, three months. It's ridiculous, yeah. This could be the end of the world, but... yeah like when you're like running from the car and trying to get in in the rain that's always the time when you like your key won't go in you like drop the keys or whatever just have that little show because that's what you have don't you've just got that little bit show we just don't have very first world problem isn't because stuff like just putting umbrellas in a little basket out there or something and just

Speaker: Yeah, it's not like the most important thing in the world, but just really like want one to finish the house. and yeah Just in case we ever have to sell it as well, I feel like it's a good like selling point as well. And make the house look nicer and stuff. But I don't want to sell it. But um we just don't know what good secondary schools around here for Lydia. So yeah loads of good primary, but we're not as convinced on the secondary. So maybe in five years or four years, depressively, we need to look into it. Wow. I know, I really don't want to move ever. really Hopefully, like you'll find a school you like.

Speaker: Yeah. I also want an exciting renovation if I don't. I have to buy something quirky. Yeah, that's true. Like an old castle. A lighthouse or something. Yeah, exactly. Midget does like lighthouses. Don't think everly will go for it. Yeah. I saw someone on Instagram and they do like a renovating, think it's a lighthouse, but like in the middle of the ocean.

Speaker: well like How do you do anything? They just get like dropped there and then there's only a certain amount of times like the boat can get there and stuff. I was just like, how they get their materials up there and stuff that? must be insane.

Speaker: But yeah, that would be cool. It's like those ones in America, those ones that are like they like living off the grid. Yeah. exposed to that woman as well. It's a bit different with van life for Susie. Yeah. how they get anything down they the cop trucks delivering all like the timbers are co and they literally can't get there no just have to do everything anything themselves i love those ones but I could actually never do it no it's impossible it's just too much but they get massive views on YouTube yeah so maybe I should do something like that yeah just for the YouTube views tune in next week for Nick's castle he's going to buy well don't have money for a porch so I might be struggling and I don't think Emily's got that much money even though she never tells she has down there And I've had the most depressing two weeks at the bungalow ever.

Speaker: Oh, no. I think it's very relatable um in terms There's nothing like that, but yeah really relatable for anyone who's ever done a renovation, I'm sure. But it's literally been two weeks of inactivity.

Speaker: I can't even think of anyone for one day. It's just one of those ones... we lo like To be fair, the plumber's like got to a certain point now where he needs the tiler to come in. yeah And the kitchen's delivered, but my kitchen guy, like my carpenter, has been really busy on other jobs. so he was trying to get I thought he was going to start a couple of weeks ago. He's been delayed. Other jobs have been bigger than he thought. Window man. so But anyway, long story short, was there's been no one there. and it's so So even I was like, oh, I'm going do a day there because I've got I think I told you before, so stupid. I've got the ceiling fans doing the bathroom on the ensuite. So I've got to crawl into the loft space because it's big, but I'm going to have to crawl. And it's like the hottest summer ever. Yeah. Yeah. So I've got to do that. But I still feel like I should wait and do it because I've got other stuff on and I can just do it whilst the kitchen fit is there. So then I can help him if he needs help lifting anything around. But literally today, Monday, is all go, I'm glad to say. So, like, Toby's back. No day, as per usual. Yeah, yeah. On holiday? No. But Toby, one of the builders who's done everything, is there. And he's finishing off bits of the porch. Actually, he was there Saturday as well. Finishing bits off of the porch, ready for the windows. And, like...

Speaker: He said if he if we've got any odd jobs, if he've got any spare time, we can sort of fit that in. So I asked him to look at that crazy paving, just finishing, which i was going to do myself. But I thought he actually, if he's only got like four hours work, it's kind of cost effective just to be like, well, can you do something? yeah so haven't been there yet, but he's done that. But now it's all go. I'm glad to say like tomorrow my Tyler starts. Yeah. He's amazing. He'll literally be done by Wednesday, two days. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So all my tiles are there.

Speaker: um I went and got all my grout and I went and got all my bits. So everything's there waiting for them. I always stack it right outside the bathroom, make it like try as easy as I can for these people. And then ah text my window guy being, I really want to put this on the market in September. How how are you getting on? oh I've had delivery today. be it yours tomorrow.

Speaker: I'm like, oh, yes. And then thought, no, it hasn't happened since we've been in it. I thought my carpenter might be staying tomorrow as well. So, mate, it's definitely this week, you said. So maybe Wednesday the kitchen's going in as well. Yeah. But i need the kitchen to go in because today i had like an office day and I've pushed the button on all the bathroom stuff. Oh, wow. And I was going to talk to you about because ive got the rough spreadsheet yeah about just how much everything is these days. It's mad. Oh, my God.

Speaker: about but The kitchen is spread between like the living room a bit, the kitchen a bit, and the two front bedrooms a bit, and you're just like, there's no room. So all the bathroom stuff comes is going to be chaotic. So i literally I've been trying to it really sensible order. So the kitchen's in by now, and then the bathroom stuff comes, and it's perfect. Obviously, the kitchen, nothing's happened.

Speaker: So I'm a bit oh, god damn it. You feel bit stressed about that? No, you know what? September is the goal, but it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen. Got a Yeah, I forgot about that. um But the same time, I actually think it still could happen. I'm not quite sure what could hold it up in my head still because all my guys are so quick. It'd be something like I've ordered all my kitchen DIY kitchens, including the worktop. So that's like a two week wait to just template. And then I don't know how long it is after that. So something like that might hold me up. But soon as my car starts, I'm going book in the template.

Speaker: And then hopefully that's within two weeks and hopefully a week or two weeks after that. So that's something that could lose a month just, yeah just on that. Um, So yeah, it's getting really exciting, but it's so depressing when I'm looking on my little pervy ring doorbell. I'm being like, yeah, who's there today? like, oh, what? No one. No one turns up.

Speaker: But at the same time, some people, my plumber's gone on holiday, but he's got to good point. put the bath in, he's got the shower tray in, so it's just ready for tiling. Amazing. So the end of this week, it could start looking a lot better. And I was going to do YouTube video, and I thought, well, what am I showing? Yeah, yeah. I guess it could be reality. could be like big sobbing. Yeah, yeah. It's you waiting for people to turn up. Yeah. So I thought, what could I talk about with you? So I thought this was quite interesting. It's not another quiz, is it? No, I just didn't think of one as well. I thought it was too hot to quiz you. It's just interesting how...

Speaker: I don't know if you've had this experience or people out there have had this experience with bathrooms and plumbing stuff particularly. But what surprised me is just how many, you just never ever go to like one shops. There's like loads. There's like Plum World, Victorian Plumbing. up Victoria Plum, do you remember them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've bust. Did you know this? No, I didn't know that. So I've got a trade account with them. So I was like, I'll compare everything as I go. i've been looking at bog standard um traditional radiators. yeah And with some products, you can literally see it's the same product from the same factory. And then they all buy it and put a different name on it. yeah

Speaker: So you like I find something I like and then I try and search specifically for segments of it and so like screw code would that be yeah but i think that differs because that's how they do it i think because i literally found a kitchen tap on here that was exactly the same kitchen tap you could see by like the hot and cold symbols on the thing the same coloring the same shape um and it was like 70 quid on screw fix 80 quid on which was it oh this random website it was on like victorian plumbing it's like 90 something quid which i've yeah realized they're definitely like high-end as in yeah more expensive rather certainly high-end yeah but buying bathroom things is just lots and lots of different companies it's so difficult to buy all from one don't know if you've had this experience yes 100 when and we're doing our bathroom yeah so it's mad so i've literally got to break it down roughly and it's all added up quite neatly to just under five grand but i've ordered a kitchen sink and a utility s sink exactly the same this is what's quite handy a lot of my things are the same just quite made it easy yeah um thing i look out for kitchen utility s sinks is this porcelain because you get these ones now i can't actually you think of the name of oh it's like a resin Yeah, yeah. And it just looks like slightly off-white and like dirtier look.

Speaker: Yeah. um And I just don't like them. i ah I guess porcelain, they could chip or something in the future maybe. be like But I don't really have much experience of that going back. And I just think the resin ones just don't look as nice as even though they're cheaper. Yeah. No. So that's what my little tip is for sinks. But guess it's... Some people like those stainless steel ones, which I don't like. Yeah. So I guess it's just personal. We've got that in our utility. That's where most people do them, don't they? Yeah.

Speaker: Because we just thought, like, we've got a bottle of sink in our kitchen. And it was like, the price difference was insane. And we're like, realistically, like, what we cleaning our utility? It's normally like... Yeah. Fox poo. Yeah, yeah. Fox poo at the house. Yeah, but it's just like those bits that you wouldn't want to clean in your own sink. Yeah. it's like, oh, like industrial, like it makes sense, easy to clean and stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I've got my two sinks, both the same from one company, Bathroom Takeaway. Yeah. So they were 444 pounds of 222 each.

Speaker: I then got a load of bits from Plum World. I'm to think what those two bits were. It was two small bits again. And then i've got all my tiles from well two companies for just tiles, so Topps Tiles and Claybrook. Claybrook's quite high-end. They're in like Chelsea High Street or something like that. But think I said to you before, just it came down to it being in my bathroom. We really like it and just thinking, oh, sometimes you've got to just splash the cash. That's what we've got in our bathroom. favour Oh, exactly. So, yeah. um And then we went for a new company called tile.co.uk for the ensuite. And again, in like a nice duck egg.

Speaker: um things and it's just like that's like four companies off the bat yeah bathroom mountain again i used for something else plum world and then another one bar oh no bathroom mountain was a new one bathroom takeaway was one bathroom mountain was another plum world and screw fix it's like seven or eight companies so i just had to make a list of everything yeah just go for all these and it honestly probably took me near like three days going through everything, all these websites, and then you still don't actually know. You're taking like a bit of a punt, aren't you? It's please be nice. and please yeah yeah Because sending stuff back is obviously doable, but a bit of a pain. Well, especially if it's big stuff. yeah How do you send that back? Yeah. I've learned over the years to actually just do it and just pay whatever it costs. If you don't like it, pay the cost or try and take it yourself.

Speaker: Yeah, um yeah just it's added up to like five grand, which in my head just seems a lot. but I guess it is a whole bathroom's worth of stuff and a whole en suite's worth of stuff.

Speaker: Yeah, that's really good. So yeah, but... What, all tiles included? Tiles included well. Wow, that's really good. Yeah, think that's good? thought it sounded a lot instinctively in my head. Yeah, I'm trying to think what we paid for our bathroom.

Speaker: Yeah, it's probably a good couple of grand, so... Yeah. Two and half grand a room sounds about right. Yeah, and the bathroom's a bit more complicated because it's got, obviously, like a bath filler, which the en suite just a shower. Yeah. It's obviously everything's bigger.

Speaker: Um... But yeah, so I've ordered all of that and I'm at £100,000 renovation is at £96,000. And I've got, I've got to say, you know what I've got to do. I've got the kitchen fitter to pay. I've got the flooring to buy. I've got the flooring god to I do. I've got the painter or I do it myself. He's already miscoached it for me yeah and has some availability.

Speaker: I'm tempted to use him because he's so good. Yeah. um Yeah, I've got so many trades. I've got the plumber. I think I owe him 5,000 still. So, yeah, so I'm over. So I have no idea what this is going to end up at, but we'll see. But this is a renovation, run Yeah. This is what happens. You have your budget, but what you really need do is set your budget and then have like 10 or 20%. I feel like 20 is probably more common. From what we're seeing, talking to people as well, like online, 20. And these people are doing so much themselves, like DIY as well. They're still going over.

Speaker: Yeah. It's mad. I think the hard thing is when we did our extension, prices were just changing every week. Yeah. It was just like, our plumber was like, I've given you a price, but if we don't order the materials to today, then have to let you know how much it's going to cost next week sort of thing because it just kept changing. They do just change, don't they? Oh, 100%. That's why pushed the button on my DIY kitchen's order really quickly because they got, remember we said they got bought out by Howden's.

Speaker: And I don't think it would change anything, hopefully, but it's gone from like a family business to that. And you're like, please don't change. So I had my price. i was like, well, let's just go for it. And there was a 10% discount on at the same time and stuff. Amazing. So just like push that button and just hope. But then that's why it's been sitting there for maybe four or five weeks now. And you're just like, oh, come on, please go in. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, that's the thing I worry about. Like we we've ordered our vanity unit for our downstairs toilet. But it's like, you've only got 30 days send it back, right? Yeah.

Speaker: I'm going to open it and make sure it's not scratched or anything. But will I know if there's anything wrong with like how it's planted? I know. I just won't know until they install it. I know. Some things, are you should definitely check everything. but I've ordered the radiators now. They come, obviously, really well packaged. And I sort of think sometimes you undo it all, take all the packaging out, and you're cool, it's fine. Put it back in the box, but not as well. yeah And then it might get scratched because of that. So I'm like, I want bother checking them and just hope for the best. It's so hard, isn't it? Like...

Speaker: But yeah, i'm I'm getting to some nice stages though in terms of, um I think my window, so he's doing, he's got the porch windows, I believe. He's got the front door. He's got the porch door. He's got the two back doors.

Speaker: um So you'll get to those stages where you're like, oh one person is ticked and gone. Yeah. When he gets to those stages, that's so nice. Yeah. and And then obviously when the porch is done, then the builders are done.

Speaker: Cause this is another like, cause they got to do the pork and the soffits stuff like that. And if they do these odd jobs for me, that'd be great too. So you got tick those off and then obviously it gets to stages like me where I can do the electrics and tick me off. and Even like when I got rid of that last bit plasterboard after I did all the plasterboard and like,

Speaker: That's nice. just Put it in the skip, the excess, and tick another job on. So I can't wait to start getting to that stage. But I hope September's on, but i feel like something's going to come up and it's not going to quite get there. There's always that worry, isn't there, with doing a renovation. let you say Like you say, other a tradesmen, their job's overrun or stuff doesn't get delivered. Or like I would say, it's delivered, but it's damaged, right? How long does that take to replace it? Yeah.

Speaker: And I lost two weeks, but I just didn't anticipate losing two weeks. Yeah. Because nothing happened. No, exactly. um yeah Not great for the podcast, but... Yeah, especially if there's hardly any DIY at this point. It's me doing other bits of work. Yeah, well, you should build your own porch, Nick. Oh, my God, no. Oak porch. I'd have to spend about a grand on tools, probably, to get all the cuts and everything. Well, even doing the cuts. Imagine that expensive bit of oak and then, like, cutting into Yeah. Yeah, again, Dave was straight away, he was like, oh, I know, like, what builders, merchants did he mention?

Speaker: one like I never juicings one who I always like associate with being like expensive and not really like good with things and he's like oh no with them Oatposts are really cheap whereas I've tried these other specialist ones and he's just like so good having someone who just knows like immediately but when he comes back with a 400,000 pound price I'll obviously take that back Juicers where I bought some like floor joists I had to put in upstairs in the bathroom and then miscalculated how big our car was which was ridiculous because it was a full Fiesta and then I couldn't get it in the car so had to like in the car park the like cutting of show and cut it down put in

Speaker: times you need a three meter car i've learned yes i've got skirting in this garage i need to take over to the grands and that's three meters and again that would go out the window but you just look a bit insane yeah and my car was obviously like a lease i've already scratched um the middle bit i'm gonna gonna pay for getting a door in there oh god i got there and it just ripped all the upholstery in the middle i was like oh it's gonna cost me i don't know what gonna cost me but at the end of the lease that's me done um Yeah, that's the thing. And then, like, like something three metres, like, that's hanging out your car. Like, you're yeah worried about, like, jousting off a cyclist or something like that. Yeah. Like, he's wearing Lycra. Yeah, yeah, he deserves it. Me and Lydia after just learning. It's like, you finally did it and we'll just joust it straight away.

Speaker: But yeah, there's another there's a few other things that like my flooring guy has done a couple of layers. I think before the tour, it's obviously literally nothing has happened. But yeah he's getting i think he'll be good at like getting on it. um So once the kitchen's in, he's going to put a little bit of batten under where the plimps will be. And then he's going to do a final layer of the floor to get it all smooth across like the whole house. So getting rid of all those, well not getting rid of, but covering up those asbestos tiles. yeah and getting him more importantly like a perfectly flush finished floor for the Antico I saw him do it he did it for my brother's garden room don't think why because Chris doesn't ever use it I think it was just because they were using more specialists like Antico or whatever yeah yeah was it called LVT yeah think so yeah because because they were using that he had to float it it's so fun watching him float it did so quickly he puts his like sticky stuff down

Speaker: just like pause, moves, and he did it, like the whole garden room in like half an hour was awesome to watch. Like he obviously did our floor at our place. Like people have been around were like, oh, do you do the floor and then build the kitchen on top? of Like, no, no, no. Like how did that guy like,

Speaker: cut it in. I know. You can't even see. It's awesome. He's so good. and Yeah, he literally, at the moment, is working seven days a week for like three or four weekends in a row. I was like, jeez, you must be knackered. He's like, yeah, I'm knackered, but I've got so much work. was like, also, can you not pop me up? Please do mine. No, you're tired, but please do mine. Get down on your knees and get to work. He's now going to add on like a grand. Yeah, exactly. yeah So yeah, I'm getting to the nice bit again after two weeks of bitter disappointment yeah maybe i should do youtube video to show the realities but just feel like it's quite dull for people but no i think it's like quite like honest and like you know these things happen right yeah especially if like and you're you're experienced in doing this so yeah like you're used to stacking tradesmen on top of each other and sometimes it just doesn't work out does it yeah well never mind just have to do it yourself

Speaker: To be fair, this called DIY guide. It's basically you. You're the DIY guide and I'm just sitting here trying to pay people. I'm not even doing that. Yeah, you need to like, please email in of a project you would like to do. I'm doing man versus professional. I'll be the DIYer of that. That would be so embarrassing.

Speaker: We would need small jobs, wouldn't we? Maybe we could floor this against Scott. You're just building a stud wall. I'd love just a DIY or anything, just how bad it would be or how good would I've got do a stud wall in my downstairs toilet. So, yeah. Yeah, but I need the exact one done so people can compare. That's idea. That's true. It's impossible to implement this.

Speaker: No, exactly. A carpenter could probably earn like 300 pound day and say, oh yeah, I'm just going to go to your garage and build a stud wall for no reason. So yeah, hopefully when we next come on, there'll be more exciting times. I really hope really hope so because I really want to do a good... um YouTube video because people starting to like get interested again. You know, when you start like posting nicer stuff, people are like, oh, i want to see this bit. That's it, yeah. just like plastering every day.

Speaker: think that's it. And like people like to see an end product. Yeah, exactly. And then when it doesn't sell for a year, Yeah, yeah. I'll rip it out. I've once worked on a job in knightsbridge is where people would it's called one hyde park most exclusive i think the flats sold for like 140 million at the top yeah and literally these people would buy these hats flats for like six and a half million bespoke kitchen and just rip it all out and just put their own style there it's just like what the hell Kind of think like why bother putting anything in there. Yeah. Surely, surely someone's profited for that as well in terms of keeping Yeah.

Speaker: yeah You just rip out carefully, wouldn't you? Yeah. Try and salvage as much as possible because it was all super expensive. Yeah. Really nice. Yeah, of course it is. Even like sockets and stuff we were putting in, you know, like we put all, I can't remember anymore. It definitely wasn't white plastic, but maybe like brushed steel and they wanted like brushed brass. So wonder how...

Speaker: what happened to all these things? Yeah. Oh, can you imagine if you put like just white plastic in it? Oh, that was good. Very good. But yeah, like even near us, like some people will buy a house and like knock it down and you're just like,

Speaker: how have you got that money? And they're not living there either. It's insane. out Some of these flats weren't even, hopefully I don't get sued in some way, weren't even nice. They didn't have a view of like anything like Hyde Park was at the back, but in the front you could see Harrods. Most of them, some them couldn't even see Harrods. It was like a small triangle. It's like six and a half million. You're like, well, mad. Yeah. They're still Yeah.

Speaker: It's literally insane. Yeah. Yeah, madness. Hopefully one day we get six and a bit million and we can do a project together. Yeah, that is the dream. We were talking before, didn't we? We were like, we'd love to do a project like a broad. Oh, that'd so good. Buy an old house abroad. There's no language skills between us. We'd have to learn something. We'd have to fly Toby out as well. Let Duolingo go with him. We could trick Dave by offering him a free holiday and he would be all over it. I don't know if he's got any of them booked in for once. I haven't seen him. They both disappeared on me. Everyone's disappeared on me.

Speaker: I haven't even paid up either. It's just gone on me. Unbelievable. Well, amazing. Cheers, mate. It's all right. Nice to see you. Yeah, good see you and good to chat DIY and building and all that. Season two.

Speaker: Season two. It's off to a bad start. like it's No DIY for me. No DIY. Or tradesmen. Yeah, yeah. But you're bringing something the show anyway. At least I've done something. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker: okay As always, thank you so much for watching. Please like and subscribe. Ping us an email, hello at DIYGuysPodcast.com or hit us up on Instagram, DIY underscore guys underscore podcast and follow and like our YouTube.

Speaker: Yeah, our new YouTube is for all the podcast. That's no longer on my one. No, exactly. Follow both. Yeah, follow both. Yeah, cheers.

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