Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Especially for Athletes podcast, where we explore essential principles that empower athletes to learn life's most valuable lessons through sports.
Speaker: Hey, athletes, exactly one year ago, we did an episode. It was our 150th podcast episode with NBA basketball player George Niang. At the time, he was a member of the Utah Jazz Association.
Speaker: He has since been traded. He's currently with the Golden State Warriors. Personally, I think this might be my most favorite interview that we've done in our 170 plus interview. So we're going to replay it this week for this week's podcast. Enjoy last year's interview with NBA basketball player George Niang. Welcome to the Especially for Athletes podcast. Thanks for joining us today. I'm here with Shad Martin, as usual, and our special guest today. it's It's always an honor for us when we can get current professional athletes and and when we can get them from the the hometown team where where we live here in Utah, it's even better. So our guest today is George Niang. George, thanks for joining us.
Speaker: Oh, thank you guys for having me. I'm super excited to be here. George is a ah returning player for the Utah Jazz. He played back with the Jazz in 2017 through Is that right? Was it or that's correct. And then after played with with the seventy six er with atlanta ah with cleveland and a summer with boston a little bit with boston is that right are you getting a thirty day vacation they say
Speaker: 30 day vacation with Boston. Well, I want to jump right into something, George, because I've, I don't know that I've ever asked an athlete this. I've, well, I haven't asked an NBA player this. I have talked to an NFL player about this, but what's that like? Let us understand kind of what is that like when you get traded? and That's got to be a ah wild experience when somebody's got to be the messenger. I, I, I'm, you know, how, did and how does that, how did that work for you? Is that,
Speaker: I'm sure there's some stories with with you and when you were traded. Oh, yeah. I mean, first off, you know you you think it can never be you, right? It's never going to be you. And then when it does happen to be you,
Speaker: Um, it's almost like being dumped, right? you're like, wait, like you don't want me anymore. um and I think the biggest thing you have to realize in sports is it's never about you. It's, it was never just about you. You know, there's so many moving pieces and dynamics, especially in professional sports. And you look at college now that there's money involved. And now that there's money involved, there's so many more, moving pieces, um,
Speaker: But yeah, I got traded three times in six months this past year. Right. So it's like you you you learn how to have thick skin. You learn how to you know what? I'm going to wake up every day and and pick up pick up my big boy pants, put them on and and go to work because basketball is the thing that I love to do. And I think that's kind of what helped me get over the emotional heartbreak of someone being like, hey, you know,
Speaker: It's looked at as a relationship, like, hey, this relationship isn't working. We're going to send you somewhere else. And, you know, you kind of like the new kid at school trying to, like, build new friends. And then the next thing you know, it's like, oh, I got to build new friends again. So I i think to answer your question, it all starts off where, you know,
Speaker: It's a business, right? And you get traded. The GM calls you, you know, whatever message they have. Thank you for what you gave to this organization. We're sending you here. And it's kind of like the Band-Aids ripped off, right? And if I could give any advice to anybody, it's just go to wherever you are and be who you are, right? You know, i don't want to say...
Speaker: don't go and try and fit out, but just be who you are. Right. And, and things end up over the course of time, you know, playing, play out the way they're supposed to play out. And, uh, lucky enough for me is when I went to Atlanta, I had played for Quinn Snyder here in Utah before. So there was a, some familiarity,
Speaker: um there where, you know, I could lean on that relationship. um But also I think you've got to thrive in your routine, right? There are things that you know that make you a better person, a better player, better son, you know, father, if be, that you can do on a day-to-day basis that make you 1% better. And if you can just fall in line with that process, whether if you're sick, mad, sad, you know, happy, and you know that you're going to continue to grow as a human, those things kind of take care of themselves. But nonetheless, being traded, sorry, this was a super long answer. Being traded. It's good stuff. This is great.
Speaker: is ah It's tough, you know, and it's it's not easy emotionally to to to handle. But I think if one thing that you could remember is just keep showing up. because eventually you'll learn how to cope with with the heartbreak and there's gonna be some victories that make you look back at the heartbreak and be like, I'm so glad I didn't quit because this feels so good to get back to winning for myself.
Speaker: Well, I kind of want to follow up um to that, the the just showing up part, because you you, know, you came out of Iowa State and and you were the dude at Iowa State. Anybody that, you know, makes it to the NBA was obviously, you know, the the dude at in college.
Speaker: Not a lot of guys have come out of Iowa State that I'm aware of to the NBA. I'm sure there's been some, but, you know, you you make it to the NBA and, you know, yeah you you're, you're,
Speaker: you've been around for what, 11 years now? How long you been in the NBA? cause This is year 10. This is 10 years. Okay. So, so you, you' you're a veteran, you've been around, but on those teams, like you played with some, some guys that, you know, they were the dudes, right? They were the, they were the guys you, you've been more of a, a role player, but a really important role um and and a very valuable role. But,
Speaker: How do you, what what advice would you give to athletes in understanding and accepting ah to a part, right, yeah their role? When I say accept, I don't mean like be okay with being on the bench, but you you you want to get in. But once you understand what your role is,
Speaker: How do you succeed and and thrive in that so that you're valuable to the team? Yeah. I even want to dial it back even before that, right? Because sometimes you're not just given a role. Like you have to earn the the bare minimum of the role. Like when you look at like a school, there's a principal, there's teachers, then there's a nurse, there's a custodian. Like you have to like earn your way into this role. So you may,
Speaker: think that you're one thing at a different place. And when you get to the NBA or you get to whatever league, or if you go from high school to college, it's like this, is you are back at the bottom of the totem pole. Like you have to earn the right to then partake in a role that then mends a team. Right. And I think the biggest thing that I would say is one is show up, right? You got to show up every day. And I don't think people understand that more than 50% of the world won't show up. So just by showing up, you give yourself a 50% advantage, maybe even more of a percentage, right? And showing up is one, like how hard is that? It's a simple task.
Speaker: Practices at eight, I'm going to be there at 7.30 or 7.45 and I'm going to show up, right? And then the next thing is, I'm going to give everything I have. Two things that you can control, being on time and your effort, right? And then at that point, 75 to 80% of people can't do that so you only really have to beat out 20% of people, right? So then to earn that role, you really only have to beat out 20% of the actual, you know, competition. And then once you get to that point, you really have to dissect it and humble yourself, right?
Speaker: Hey, what i want is what I want to be doing the best thing that's going to help the team get to where we need to be? Or is there something that I can be doing that's going to help our team be that much better? And when you humble yourself and realize like, hey,
Speaker: This isn't the most exciting role. This isn't the most glamorous. I'm not going to get the most press for this, but it helps us win games. And I'll tell you this, you know, playing for winning teams that when you win, there's nothing better than walking around a city when you're winning or in first place in your division and that the – the the vibe, you know, the the the whole feel of people appreciating you for knowing that, knowing how hard it is to win and they're appreciating you for winning. It means so much more than,
Speaker: Scoring 30 points. i yeah I can only tell you from experience, and I think everyone should should get to experience it, but when you're doing something as a collective group, and winning is hard because not everybody can win. There's a small fraction of people that win, and when you get in that fraternity of winning, the attention, the appreciation,
Speaker: Your contracts go up. Your off-the-court deals go up. So all that stuff kind of takes care of itself. But like I said, you have to be willing to be humble enough to accept that, hey, this role may be not something that I dreamed about and wanted to do, and I wasn't in the backyard thinking about how I was going to set screens and rebound. But this is what's going to help the team win. And when you win, I'm telling you, you you get appreciated. Like, look at those three stars on Oklahoma City, right? They they always made it about the team, and all three of them have,
Speaker: lucrative max contract. and it's It's funny you said Oklahoma City. is it I wonder if the three stars they had before, the three stars they had now were quite on that same page of of you know accepting their roles. that It's interesting that the team they just had win it all, three really good players, but they had three Hall of Famers on there, right, 10, 12 years ago, and and it didn't quite click. So sometimes it's not so much the talent as it is understanding, you know, the the the team, right?
Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah, you know, i I think the biggest thing there is that you need to wake up every single day and not think about what can I do to service myself for myself. It's what can I do to service myself to make sure that I'm the best for the person next to me and hold them accountable and make them feel as if like, hey, I'm holding myself to a high standard to make sure I can be the best for when we need me.
Speaker: Are you doing the same? And if you're not doing the same, having honest conversations because in anything, sometimes a little tension in holding people accountable is good for the overall goal. And and you can't just look at it as in small, finite moments. Like this is a huge picture. Like in the NBA, the season is long. So if I get in an argument with you day two and you know it's coming from a good place and I show you that it's coming from a good place, you can overcome that. And those are the type of things and adversity that you need overcome win because at any level, winning is the hardest. I don't know the percentage of successful people, but not everybody is willing to be vulnerable and humble themselves to win.
Speaker: And that's why there's a small percentage of successful people out of the whole population in this and this world and then in the sports business and then in business. They do hard things and they're willing to give up their ego and put it aside um to make sure everybody does their part to win.
Speaker: And that leads to the question I was going to ask, George. I'm intrigued by whether people should be working on their weaknesses or leaning into their strengths.
Speaker: That's something you said earlier about setting great screens, being an incredible rebounder. I know you're a great shooter. What have you learned in your journey about leaning into your strengths versus goals?
Speaker: constantly focusing on those things that maybe you don't bring to a team, but leaning into the things that you do bring and the balance between working on weaknesses and leaning into strengths. Would you speak to that? Yeah. um You know, that's actually ah a really good topic. Right. And and um I don't know the black and white answer to that.
Speaker: I can only, you know, tell you that, you know, obviously my strength strengths, I'm going to lean into them constantly, right? That doesn't mean I'm not working on my weaknesses. I'm aware of my weaknesses and I put time into that every single day, right? Because I want to...
Speaker: want my weaknesses to grow but i also want my strengths to shine the brightest right because that's kind of my identity that's what i hang my hat on you mentioned shooting shooting is something that i do every single day right it's it's something that has kept me in the nba it's allowed me to grow and you know get lucrative lucrative contracts play on winning teams but there's also aspects of my game where i'm cutting out time in my day to put towards those things because I know I can't allow my weaknesses to drop any lower than where they're at, right? It's just, that's just how the game works. You know, if you're not good at something, you need to make sure it either stays there or you're working at it to slowly get it a little bit better because at the end of the day, perception is reality, right? Am I out there looking like Hercules? No.
Speaker: And that's probably the reason why other teams are like, he doesn't look like he can play defense, right? let's Let's bring him up here and see if he can play defense. But if you know behind closed doors that you're constantly putting in certain periods of time into growing this part of your your game that is weak,
Speaker: You have that confident mindset, right? i'm always I've always told myself, like, you know, confidence comes from the preparation where I'm like, no, I've watched enough film to know what move you're going to do, and I've put myself through enough torturous workouts to be like, I know what's coming here, and I'm going to be prepared for it. Are you going to be perfect?
Speaker: No, but I think there's something to be said about always sharpening your strengths, right? But you always need to work on your weaknesses. If you're going to put 45 minutes into your strengths and make sure those are elite,
Speaker: then you need to at least put, you know, if there's an hour, you need to put 15 minutes of that towards your weaknesses. That's really cool. There's actually something called multiple intelligence theory. You've probably heard of it, but there's there's strengths, there's weaknesses, and then there's fatal flaws.
Speaker: And sometimes a weakness becomes a fatal flaw to the point that if you're a bad enough defender, they can't have you on the court no matter how good you could shoot, for example, because you cost them more than you bring them. And so yeah that's really cool. Just something...
Speaker: I was thinking about when you said part of being a rollup a role player is being great at those things you're great at. But then i love your answer, working on those things that to make sure that no one can take advantage of you to the point that you're not valuable. that That's a really cool insight.
Speaker: So, yeah, great. Thank you. I mean, here's how I think of it, right? if If this is your dream and your aspiration and the only way you can get to it is if I tell you that you need to work on your weaknesses. A lot of people be like, well, I really don't want to focus on that. And if it's the only thing that's going to save you, like if you need oxygen and I'm telling you,
Speaker: If you do this, this is the thing that's going to bring you oxygen, and you want it that bad, you'll make sure that you do that every single day. like it You should think of working on it as if it's as bad as I need oxygen. I know it's an extreme, but these are the competitive edges that you're looking to edge out of people, right? Because if you're not working on it, I promise you there is someone else out there that is like, I am going to do everything in my power to make sure i give myself the opportunity to be successful. And if you're not willing to do that, then maybe this area, this subject, this topic isn't something that you want as bad as you say you want it.
Speaker: ah because I, I, I think about, I grew up in New England, right? And I watched Tom Brady for however many years that he played. And you're just so fascinated because every time I watched him on Sunday, it was like, I never sat down on the couch and was like, ha well, Patriots might, might lose this one. They have a tough one. Whether if it was with 30 seconds in the fourth quarter, two minutes,
Speaker: He was directing traffic, yelling at people. The ball was zinging. We were winning games. And I say we because I was a Patriots fan. I wasn't a part of the organization. But then you watch these documentaries and he said something and when they were interviewing him. They were like, you know, how do you feel about competition? He was like, well, I've sacrificed so much of my life that.
Speaker: I can look my defender or the person across from me and be like, I hope that you sacrifice as much as I did because I know what I sacrificed to get here. And if you didn't sacrifice at least half of that, I know that I've already mentally won.
Speaker: And that has just always stuck with me where it's just like, it's a mental game. Like how much more am I willing to do? Whether if it's sleep more, eat better, you know, get a little extra work in. What am I willing to do in the small margins to win more than someone else who who I'm going up against?
Speaker: we yeah We call that in our program, it's the first chapter of our our book that Shad and I wrote together and it's called Windy Hour. And we we try to impress upon these athletes that you can't just kind of participate in your day if if you want to be great. You have to be deliberate and intentional in in what you do every hour if you want to you know be great. And we make time for the things that are important to us. all right Anybody who says I don't have time for something, I don't.
Speaker: Yeah, we we do. We make time for the things that really matter to us and whatever it is, relationships or, but you know, being great at a hobby or, ah you know, your job, whatever, like the things that matter to us, we typically figure out a way to to really find that time. So I actually wanted to to kind of lead into that. this This idea of winning the hour, I'm sure that at some point you had to realize you know what, I got a chance to to do something with this. to to Maybe it started with making the high school team, or but at some point you thought, you know what, i could I could have my school paid for, or I might have a chance to actually make money doing this at you know in professional sports.
Speaker: How dedicated were you and now and are you still? I mean, I'd be curious to know kind of what a what a day looks like for you in making sure that you're productive so that your body's healthy, so that your mind is right and and you get your workouts in and your lifts and everything. what what's How important is that?
Speaker: ah It's extremely important, right? and And I'll be the first to tell you it's hard to what we call like fake the funk, right? When you say like, when did I realize I could get my college paid for?
Speaker: I'm going to even reel it back and be like, I loved basketball so much that like working out three times a day wasn't a chore for me. it it It was like, I loved being a part of it. I love the sound of the basketball. I love how it went through the hoop. Like I was obsessed with it. So in high school, it was just like, Hey, I'm good at this. I enjoyed doing it. And it, it felt really good. Right. And then when you get to college where essentially, whether if it's division one, division two, division three,
Speaker: they own you, right? as as As much as we want to like beat around the bush or that, they own you. And that's kind of where it becomes, ah you know, a job, right? Where it's the 6 a.m. lift, the 8 a.m. m study hall, the class. Then you're you're you're like, how is this possible to do all these things? And then I'm going to go out there and compete. And, you know, when you talk about winning the hour, right?
Speaker: Like I said about showing up, showing up doesn't mean that it's going to be easy roses and daisies. Trust me, there's plenty of days where I showed up and was giving my all and thought to myself, is this worth it?
Speaker: This sucks. This is not enjoyable. This is hard. But, you know, so many great things are on the other side of hard, right? You got to lay it down to pick it up. You got to be vulnerable enough to be like, I'm going to put myself out there and Give my all and give my hardest knowing that this is everything that I have and still be willing to know that that might not be good enough. I still might get let down and, and not make the game winning shot and then have the humility to gather all that and show up again and come at it 10 times as harder.
Speaker: And that's thing. I think when you talk about winning the hour is every hour, isn't going to be the greatest. It's not going to be your best. But if you're going out there and you're in your effort and you're showing up over the course of long periods of time, people will quit.
Speaker: The people that, you know, you said, oh, this, this day sucks. that That will be their last day. They'll be like, I'm not, I'm not willing to sacrifice any more crappy days. I quit. You will pass those people. So if you can continue to win the hour and just think about it, you know, someone gave me the best advice. They were like,
Speaker: When you're thinking about quitting, just be like, I'll just go one more second. And then think, I'll go one more minute. I'll go one more hour. i'll go I'll go one more day. I'll think about quitting tomorrow. And just distract yourself to where you just keep showing up and giving effort. And at the end of the day, it pays off.
Speaker: And I can tell you it pays off because if I showed you a picture of me, if I could find it quick enough on my phone of what I looked like in the eighth grade, my senior year in college into where I'm at now at 32 years old, like so many people told me, you'll never play professional basketball. You'll never play division one basketball. You won't make your high school team.
Speaker: Well, I'm 10 years playing professional basketball and I know the formula of showing up. and giving your all, it works. I don't know what happened in between, but it works.
Speaker: Man, that's that's great stuff. you cant You can't only show up or only do the work on the days you feel like it, right? You got to be able to do it on the days and at the moment you don't. And that just just showing up is half the battle. that's that's ah That's going to be great advice for these any parents, coaches listening to this.
Speaker: Please have your your athlete listen to the last couple of minutes because that was awesome. Well, and Dustin, Dustin, as we've, so we have four core principles. The first two are win the hour and be resilient.
Speaker: And as we've talked about those two, it's hard not to see the connection between the two, you know, that winning the hour is, it everyone is going to get to a point. If you haven't got to a point where you're pushing yourself and you want to quit, you haven't pushed yourself enough, but you don't even know how good you could be.
Speaker: If you haven't thought I want to quit right now, this is hard or you haven't hit a ceiling yet. And so, There's a connection between being resilient and showing up and winning the hour.
Speaker: I'm just wondering, George, do you have any thoughts throughout your journey? And you mentioned a little bit of it there. What would you tell young people about the importance of being resilient and overcoming failure and continuing to go despite those setbacks? Do you have any advice regarding that?
Speaker: Oh, absolutely. I mean, if I went over my journey, you'd realize the ups, the downs, the failures, like success is not like I work hard and I get what I want and it and it goes up in this direction. that's That's not how this works. But I think all of us have dreams and goals and aspirations where you sit down and and someone's like, how bad do you want this? And you're like,
Speaker: I want this more than you could ever imagine. They're like, well, well really, if i if I sat you down at this table and you picked the worst food in the world and I sat you down here for a year and I was like, you need to eat the worst food in the world for a whole year.
Speaker: And while you're eating it and it's day 290, you didn't get a good night's sleep and you're eating k it. And finally, you're like, you know what? I don't really want it that much. Like, I don't want to eat this for forever.
Speaker: 60 more days because i like it I said, I wanted it, but the actual action of doing what I need to do to then get to it. I don't really want it. Then you don't, you don't really want it because when you sit down and you say like, Hey, this is what I really want. You will connect every dot cross every T and make sure that to the furthest extent you will get there.
Speaker: And that's what resiliency is like. I have my eyes. My eyes are up. I have my eyes on the prize. And sure, there may be a hurdle, and I'm going find a way to get over that, but I'm never taking my eyes off of what the big picture is. Sure, I'm going to show up every day, and and you know what? I've got to jump over this hurdle. I've got to go around this cone. I have to do this. But I'm never forgetting why.
Speaker: I'm jumping over that hurdle because I know that's that in the distance. That's what I wanted. And sure, it may, it may hurt. It may burn. It made me leave me thinking like, I don't know if this is for me, but I know what I set out to do.
Speaker: And six-year-olds can accomplish, you know, simple tasks, right? And if you can't, put forth and ah ah and do simple things every single day to get to do something that you said to someone that I really want this, then I guess you really didn't want it that bad.
Speaker: Like, so don't, so don't even kid yourself. Like it's totally fine. Like there's some people, I have a lot of great people that in my life that are like, Hey, I want this. And I'm like, well, how bad do you want it? Because I saw you, you know, you want to lose 20 pounds, but I saw you, you know, so eating ice cream, you know, 20 minutes ago. So how, like, are you willing to give that up? What are you willing to give up? to get what you want.
Speaker: And that's what resiliency is. Yeah, that's, that's, that's perfect. I wonder, George, did you have somebody at at at a young age that we say eyes up? And you mentioned that in your answer there, we we say eyes up, do the work. And it's on these wristbands that we, we wear and and have given out tens of thousands of them. Keep your eyes up and do the work. And, you Part of that means if if you can to have your eyes up on somebody that might inspire you, have your eyes up on your goal, be optimistic, all these things. Did you have somebody at a young age that that you looked up to or somebody that helped you learn some of these things? Or do you feel like you are always just driven to be great at basketball?
Speaker: Um, you know, my, my journey has been crazy, right? I played a whole bunch of sports, uh, growing up and I remember it was, it was seventh grade. I'll never forget it. My mom is a huge inspiration in my life, right? You know, she played basketball. I'm not sure how good she was, but she played sports. And, uh, I remember it was, it was seventh grade and my middle school coach had like, think it was the first time I ever had gotten yelled at. Right. And I came home and I was like, I want to quit. he's not respecting me. He was yelling at me, <unk> this, that, and the other, you know, typical 11, 12 year old talk of like, you know, this is the world is against me. Right. And my mom just had always used this line when things would get hard and I would vent to her. She was like, George, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.
Speaker: And that's kind of like the mantra that I've kind of like made my life out of. Like, Nothing worth having came easy, at least in my life. And I don't think you enjoy the fruits of your labor if it came to you with not a lot of struggle.
Speaker: And if you work hard for something and it takes a lot of effort and a lot of grind and a lot of grit, I feel that that that doesn't wither fast Because you appreciate it and you hold on to that. You're like, I worked so hard to get here. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to hold on to it. And if you got it extremely fast and it just was given to you, you're like, oh, well, i didn't really have to work that hard. So why am I going to work so hard to protect it? So I think the biggest thing is is realizing that, you know, things that are worth having don't just fall into your lap.
Speaker: And if they do fall in your lap, you don't appreciate it as much. So just know that when it's days are hard, it's raining, it's snowing, and you've got to get up and separate yourself from the rest of the pack, that those are the days, those Saturdays where you're showing up and nobody else is there. Those are the days that you at the end of your career, you know that in your mind, when you're going out there to compete, you're like, no, I've put in 465 Saturdays. So I know, I know that the guy across from me,
Speaker: Hasn't done that. So i'm ah I'm already, the mental game is already on. Now it's like, now you drop to the, to the means of your training and how hard have you worked since then? That's, have you ever met a, do you have an athlete you've played with in college or the NBA that, that work ethic really caught your attention that you were like, man, this guy like work works.
Speaker: Yeah, um it was kind of a turning point in my career, right? I i got drafted by the Indiana Pacers 50th, right? and And this is when my career, I just thought opportunities were just given, right? I was like, oh, I got drafted 50th. They'll eventually, you know, play me, right? They drafted me. Well, that's where I was sadly mistaken because at the end of the year, they were like, hey – we don't really have a place for you. You're cut.
Speaker: And I remember sitting on my couch being like, did I ruin the only opportunity that I had to chase my lifelong dream? um And after that, I had signed a contract to to a training camp deal, which essentially as you sign with a team and they're going to send you down to their farm league team. And it was with the Golden State Warriors. They just won a championship. Kevin Durant was there, Klay Thompson, Stephen Curry, Draymond Green.
Speaker: And again, in a training camp, And I was only there for 30 days, but every single day, every single day, Draymond was at the same hoop. Steph Curry was at the same hoop at the same time. Kevin Durant was at the same hoop at the same time, making sure that it was like game speed. Klay Thompson, same thing. And I remember sitting there thinking to myself, like, these guys just won a championship. Probably have more money in their contracts coming in that you would ever – need And they're out here working as if they're trying to show that they need to make the team.
Speaker: And at that, that instance, I was like,
Speaker: if these guys are all stars, max players in, in working this hard, who am I to think that I can work any less? than this And that's kind of like where my career kind of transitioned. And that's where I was like, I need to come up with a routine. I need to do something every single day or have tasks lined up every single day. They're going allow me to get a competitive advantage or at least get a little bit better, whether if it was with my health, my eating, my basketball game, because I can't afford to.
Speaker: not have a day where I get better because these guys are working as if they're on the the last end of the bench and they're the best players. And that's when I realized it's like, okay, you need to have a routine. And I think for all young people,
Speaker: Find things that you enjoy but also help you get better, whether that's reading, you know, whether that's watching film, whether that's getting out and kind of getting a feel for the ball, whether if you play soccer, football, getting a touch, you know, just these little things. It doesn't need to be tedious. Don't mistake hard work ah or or being overworked for achievement, right? You know, you can do little things each day that can help you get better. It doesn't mean that you need to be out there running four hours,
Speaker: abo up a canyon in in Utah. No, that's that's not what success is. You can find things that you can slowly chip away at, you know, growing and getting better. So, um yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is is finding a routine and and diving into that constantly. Yeah.
Speaker: And this is great stuff. This is so good. i i love it when I'm doing a podcast and I'm walking away feeling all motivated for my life. I'm feeling that right now. So so appreciate this so much. You know, George, one of our other principles is to compete without contempt, to compete without hatred.
Speaker: And you're in a unique situation in the NBA where you have been traded many times. So you have former teammates that now you're playing against that you you've probably grown to love, yet you still want to kill them when you're on the court.
Speaker: And I would just love to know how you have had that, developed that balance to loving those you're competing against and at the same time being a fierce competitor on the court against them and what you've learned in your journey about that.
Speaker: Yeah, I think people have to learn the difference between being malicious and then competitive, right? um You know, when we say you want to get on the court you want to kill someone, it's like the the competitive...
Speaker: nature that comes to where you're willing to do anything to win, right? I'm willing to do anything to win. I'm not willing to to hurt someone, right? But I'm willing to do anything to win. and I think that speaks towards competitive juices, right? And I tell people all the time, I was like, on the court, I'm a totally different person than I am off the court right like i kind of get into a zone where i'm just i i live in a world where like competing like is like a natural i i did maybe i shouldn't use this word but like a natural high like i get like juiced up thinking about how i'm gonna go out there and figuratively not not literally like take someone's heart out like may have them feel as if like
Speaker: There's the only other option that they have is to quit like that, that, that like talking about that gets me fired up, like thinking I can go out there and be like, I'm going to be such a pest and, and bring so much chaos to this person on the court that, that they feel like the only way they can get away from it is quitting.
Speaker: And that let, I thrive off those kind of like juices. And I think that's kind of like how my emotions are on the court. Like I wear them on my sleeve, I'm yelling, I'm fist pounding, I'm, I'm screaming. I'm, you know, I, I show my emotion out on the court. And I think what you have to realize is that at the end of the day, this is, this is just a game. Like, you know, sure. Like it, it, it gets heated. It gets competitive. But after,
Speaker: you know, you can always embrace someone and love someone and and let them know that, hey, competition is competition. I can i can hate you on the court and love you love you off of it, right? And I think everyone that I've played alongside, played against, knows that, right? There's no ill will or malicious intent, but I thrive off wanting to win. I hate losing more than I love winning.
Speaker: So I'm going do everything in my power to never feel the lows of losing. and And I still feel the lows, but, you know, to make sure that I'm not losing and you're not winning.
Speaker: But we can still come together and have dinner after and enjoy our our life because life is so much more than than just a game. And I think young kids really need to realize that is that, yes, at some point you you kind of need to make it your whole world, but it's not your whole world.
Speaker: ah you You know, you're ah you're a son, you're ah a brother, you're a, you know, you could be a father, you know, for women, a daughter, a mother, an aunt, an uncle. Yeah.
Speaker: And that's the beauty of it is that you can put so many different hats on in this life, but it it should never, ever, ever deter you from being a good person. And I think that's the biggest thing, right? And that's kind of what's helped me extend my career is that no matter how frustrated or how upset I've gotten, I've always...
Speaker: kind of live by one one rule, right? And that's do the right thing, right? Everyone knows what right from wrong is, right? there's I don't need to give you a list of like, hey, here's how to be a professional athlete. We all know right from wrong and what's right and what's wrong. And if it's there's a gray area, you should probably teeter towards not not doing it if there's ah a gray area. and doing And doing the right thing, like i said, we all know right from wrong and being a good person, those are those don't cost anything.
Speaker: And I think we all know that no matter how big you are, no matter how much money you make, being a good person costs zero dollars. So it it shouldn't be something that comes with an asterisk. like But no, it's it's mandatory. it It should be demanded always. And I think you can be whoever you want on the court. You can be intense. You can be tenacious. But off the court, I think you know being a good person gets you way further than than being a you know a great athlete or player.
Speaker: we've been We've been talking about this just the last couple weeks with some of the things that have gone on in our country and and unfortunately right here in Utah ah recently with you know athletes and and the locker room and and you know what you said there kind of reminded me of that. We've talked about how You know, if the world would operate like a locker room does where, you know, you don't care the guy next to you, where he grew up or what color he is or what religion he is or and, and you know, you you have a common goal and your sweat smells the same. And and so you go out and, yeah you know, you you love each other because you you got the same goal in mind and you can go play against somebody and compete. and It's OK.
Speaker: to compete with somebody and after shake their hand and move on and say, they got me today, but I'm gonna get them tomorrow. And man, if our world could operate like that, right. If countries could compete against each other, but then afterwards say, all right, we got to get better, but we don't have to, we don't have to kill people. We don't have to hate people. We don't have to, we can be Republican and Democrat, but we don't have to hate each other. Right? Like you've been, I'm guessing in a locker room with every possible type of teammate, right? it and and And you figure it out, right? I mean, can you just speak to just, this is a big question because in the world we live in and and and sort of the the topics of the day right now, you know, George, how do we
Speaker: I mean, it how how do we just be better to each other? How do we how do we use sports? We call it the sport light. It's it's really where of this program, why it is what it is, is that how do we use our sport light, our position in athletics, the attention that sports gives you? You're in it right now. And being back here in Utah, you know, everyone's going to know you're back and people are watching you.
Speaker: How can we in in the athletics world and you as an athlete and those listening use their position to do more to just create a better world, man, more peace and love on the in the earth?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, if listen, if all all three of us knew that answer, we'd be getting paid a lot of money you know yeah to solve those. But I i think, um you know, I've played with.
Speaker: teammates from totally different countries, different backgrounds, raised totally different. And I think, though, the thing that brings us all together is basketball, right? And and when you're talking basketball, it doesn't care if you're black, white, what ethnicity you are, female, male, whatever gender you want to be.
Speaker: ah It's basketball that brings us together, right? That's the identity that brings us together. But that also leads me to the commonality of like, I can still, you know, love the similarities between my teammates, but also respect the differences, right? I realized that I'm not gonna agree with everything that anyone that comes into my life is. And I can respect that, right? Cause I don't want you to have the same opinion as me. Cause if everybody had the same opinion, this place would be real boring, right? And I can respect that, right? Like, that's your opinion. I don't need to, you know, hold that true to my heart and be like, hey, that's the end all be all for me.
Speaker: But I also can lean into, you know, let me get to know this person. What similarities do we have? And I can lean on those and love those, right? Because those are what connect us, right? When I'm speaking to someone and they're like, hey, I went to Iowa State.
Speaker: I don't care if you're a doctor, if you pick up trash, if you're an NFL player, that's a similarity. And I want to lean on that. And that's where we kind of can share a bond. And I think if people can take a step back and be like, okay, yes, we do have our differences and that's totally fine.
Speaker: But what do we have in common that can bring us closer together change? come together because I think you know ah you know, being a part of a team, there's there's nothing like it. There's nothing like looking to the left of you and knowing that the person is putting in the same amount of work or more and that you guys are going to achieve things that, you know, at the beginning of the journey, you were like, this might be hard. I don't know if we get here. And guess what? The glory of that is like 20 minutes or like a day.
Speaker: And then guess what? The next task is put in front of you and you're like, Well, I guess we got to do it again. And it's just like the the challenge of like, who is going to stop us? And when you when you finally get to that feeling, and I'm just going to be brutally honest, like there's some people in this life that never get to feel that feeling because they're not willing to be vulnerable enough to show someone next to them that they're working that hard.
Speaker: But I know of of having that gratifying feeling of like winning championships, winning games, making it to this level, competing at the highest level, that that feeling is so gratifying that I can't even explain it. It's one of those things you have to get there to feel it.
Speaker: But you also have to be willing to to lay it all out there and be vulnerable and be willing to have your heart broken by putting it all out there. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, yeah it's George, we've, Shad, you have, I could go on forever with George, but I told him we'd be responsible of his time. Do you have ah any final question you want to ask George? we we I told him about 30 minutes. We're about 45 right now. And if we could go, I mean, if we, I could, we could continue here. There's some great, great stuff. Any other questions, Shad?
Speaker: Well, i just I'll just say thank you, George. The things that seem to be core values to you that you value a lot are just so aligned with what we're trying to get into the hearts of our young people and just so appreciative of of your time. Dustin, the only question that I had is one of the aspects that that we really try to help young people understand is that there's people around them who are having a hard time, who are hurting people.
Speaker: There's young people in their schools that just feel invisible, unnoticed, unappreciated. And we try to help our young people feel inspired to keep their eyes up looking for those who might need a lift and then doing the work to lift people.
Speaker: And someone like yourself who's been blessed with that sport light, that extra attention that comes from sports to such a ah high level, what would you say to young people that might inspire them to live outside of themselves, to look for other people that they might be able to lift?
Speaker: Because when athletes do it, it's super powerful. It's even more powerful when they have that sport light with them. Anything you would say to young people regarding that? Yeah. um You know, I think, you know,
Speaker: People will forget, you know, the some of the things that you say. They'll forget, you know, the accomplishments, the things that you do. ah But they'll never forget how you make them feel, right? And I think that's ah that's an important trait, right?
Speaker: Whether you're giving ah a kid a hug or telling them good job or giving someone a high five, like... that warmth, that feeling that you give people, and you may never even know, like you may give someone a high five thinking that is just like second nature. And two years down the line, someone's like, hey, I was having a horrible day. Like that kind of changed the alternative of my day and let me know that, hey, one person's with me on this journey. And that's all I needed for that day. And it I don't think it's more or less seeking those people, but I think it's
Speaker: Feeling okay putting yourself out there to make others feel better. I think that that that's what it really looks like, right? Like it's okay to go out there and make someone else feel good. You know, Jeff Van Gundy came and spoke to my team when I was in college and he was rambling on and and he finally stopped and and talked about Yao Ming, right?
Speaker: And, um, He said, Yao Ming you know never had a bad day, right? And and then I was like, how how how can that be possible? like I'm in college fighting for my life to try and reach my goal of of going to the NBA. And he was like, yeah, Yao Ming never had a bad day.
Speaker: And I asked Yao, like, well yeah, why do you never have? He said, how could I ever have a bad day when I could be genuinely happy for others? And that resonated with me because it's like not everyone in the world could have a bad day. So if I'm happy for someone else's success and I can contribute to someone else's success with a high five, with a smile, with a wave, with a thank you, with a I really appreciate that. You want to have the least amount of bad days. If you can feel happy for someone else and and have warm feelings about someone else being successful,
Speaker: You'll go through this life with tons of gratitude and excitement. And like I said in the beginning, you know, it was never this life, these teams, these games, it was never about you.
Speaker: It was about the bigger picture and everyone around you that helped you get here. So don't start making it about you today. And I think that kind of speaks to what you're saying. You you don't need to seek it out. Just be a good person and and have your outreach.
Speaker: Reach as wide as it can every single day and don't, don't let it shorten up. Don't, don't hold back on being vulnerable and telling someone good job or thank you because those little things, they're big things to other people.
Speaker: George, I can't thank you enough. Shad and I, we can't thank you enough for taking time to join us. We're, we're thrilled you're back here in Utah, man. We, we hope you'll, uh, you'll stay here for a lot of years and retire and and live here someday, man. You're, you're, uh,
Speaker: you're You're a great man and and we love watching you play and and your your insights and and advice and things you shared with us today are are perfect. We're going to use a lot of this in a lot of different settings. So everybody, thank you for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. George, thanks again for joining us.
Speaker: Everybody keep your eyes up. Do the work. Thank you for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. To learn more about Especially for Athletes organization, get a copy of our book, The Sport Light, or to bring our program to your team, school, business, or organization, visit us at especiallyforathletes.org.
