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E057: Roger Dean
1.4k Plays5 years ago
Roger Dean had more enemies than not. In fact, it seemed that almost everyone who knew him had a reason to kill him or want him dead.
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Transcript
Starting a Podcast with Ease
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuth Hounds. Have you ever considered creating your own podcast? Have you been inspired by listening to some of your favorites and thought, I'd love to try this out on my own? Whether it's a true crime podcast like ours, a motivational podcast, or maybe one filled with tips and strategies for those interested in the same activities you are,
00:00:20
Speaker
When Maggie and I first decided to start our podcast, we knew absolutely nothing about what podcasting would entail. But when we found that the platform Buzzsprout was one for which we didn't need any special equipment, just a computer microphone, some quiet space in each other, we knew this was the way to go. It is intuitive to use, fun to play around with.
00:00:41
Speaker
and so helpful in getting analytical data about our number of downloads to track trends and from where our listeners hail. Best yet, Buzzsprout is affordable, even by our teacher salary standards. Buzzsprout will get your podcasts listed on every major podcasting platform. So what are you waiting for?
00:01:03
Speaker
Fulfill that dream of yours and start today. If you use our Coffee & Cases referral code, 709-643, linked on Facebook and in our show notes, not only will you help support our show, but you will receive a $20 Amazon gift card after your second month on a paid plan. It's that easy.
00:01:23
Speaker
Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners. Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. Now, it's time for the world to hear what you have to say.
The Power of Money and Desperation
00:01:38
Speaker
How many times have you heard the saying, money makes the world go around? As a kid, those words don't really make sense, but as you get older, you realize that money might not really make the world revolve, but the world does seem to revolve around money.
00:01:54
Speaker
We've seen entire governments collapse over budget crises. We've watched prices of everyday items creep up and up. Even symbols of world trade have been destroyed and thousands of lives lost. And all for the sake of what? Money?
00:02:09
Speaker
I once saw a meme on Facebook that asked what I thought was kind of a stupid question, but it said, what's the stupidest thing you ever did for money? And it was a picture of college graduates laughing in their cap and gowns, diplomas in hand. I mean, college definitely wasn't the stupidest thing I ever did for money. Perhaps I should have picked at public university because leaving college with a mountain of student debt probably was one of the dumbest things I've ever done.
00:02:34
Speaker
I went to school to make money, but left school not being able to pay the minimum payment on my student loans with my entry level job.
A Family's Fall and a Murder Plot
00:02:42
Speaker
I read a blog when researching today's episode called, Many Makes the World Go Round, How Far People Go for Money, a True Story, by a blogger named Giant Bear. In the blog, Giant Bear talks about a student he hadn't heard from in years, and that he suddenly called him with horrific news. He went back several years to his father taking his brother and leaving him and his mom penniless. Their once rich and happy family left in shambles.
00:03:08
Speaker
When the student called it had been nearly a year and a half later, but their lives had been turned upside down again, they just heard the news that their dad had been arrested. And no, it wasn't for something like running a red light or shoplifting. Their dad had been arrested with his girlfriend for allegedly hiring an ex-policeman to kill her husband. Her husband was a very successful former and it's alleged that his wife was the beneficiary to his estate.
00:03:33
Speaker
So if I had to guess, I think we've all had times in our lives when we had no clue how we were going to make ends meet. Balancing rent, a car payment, bills, and food can sometimes seem impossible. But would you be desperate enough for money that you'd hire a head man to collect life insurance dues?
00:03:50
Speaker
or fake your own kidnapping perhaps? Imagine being desperate enough for $30,000 that you tie your wife up and let a hitman into your house to make you take money out of your savings account. Now imagine that scenario going just about as wrong as it could go. Roger Dean was by all outward appearances a normal man living a normal life. But who would want a man like this dead?
00:04:15
Speaker
Was it a fake kidnapping gone wrong? Was it revenge? I'll let you decide.
Introducing the Podcast and Its Mission
00:04:20
Speaker
This is the story of Roger Dean.
00:04:57
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams and my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
00:05:14
Speaker
so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:05:35
Speaker
You did it, Sleuth Hounds. You got coffee and cases to 150, I think we're actually at 153 ratings on Apple Podcasts and we are so excited. Maggie and I could never thank you enough.
00:05:52
Speaker
Coffee and Cases podcast has actually been on the air a little shy of a year, and Maggie and I are feeling so blessed for the growth that we have seen during that time. We are hopeful that 2021 will bring even greater things to our podcast. Fingers crossed that this time next year, you'll be hearing us say about our listens and ratings that they've doubled or even tripled.
00:06:19
Speaker
As promised, we will be giving you a bonus episode. So Maggie and I thought we would start 2021 off right and we would release that episode on January 1st. We'll be sure to remind you each week so you don't forget. Thank you so much, Sleuth Hounds. You really are the best.
Roger Dean's Complex Life
00:06:41
Speaker
So unlike many cases we cover where the victims had like no one who disliked them or very few people who would want them dead, it seems our victim today, Roger Dean, had more enemies than not. In fact, it seemed that almost everyone who knew him had a reason to kill him or a reason to want him killed. Oh, that's not good. You know what Rodney always says? This is a pretty good saying, actually. He always says, like, if
00:07:10
Speaker
Let's say I'm the only one who has a problem with somebody, right? Like, let's say there's, I don't know, somebody in the neighborhood. And I'm the only one who has a problem with that neighbor, then it's probably me. But if everybody has a problem with that neighbor, then it's probably them.
00:07:29
Speaker
So my dad says something really similar about like people who have been married like five, six times. They're like, whose fault is that when you've been married?
00:07:43
Speaker
From the outside, Roger and his family had it all. They lived in a really pretty house and they had a beautiful daughter and they seemed to have a happy marriage, sort of. But according to Chris Lawson, he was the author of an article that I cite a lot today called Cold Case Files Who Killed Roger Dean. Roger was actually an informant for the Denver Police Department.
00:08:07
Speaker
Oh, so anybody who he's given info on. Yeah. And he actually would sleep police information about prostitution rings that were happening on like a property he owned. I didn't really research too in depth about that. But he had quite a few enemies just from that on its own because, you know, like I said,
00:08:31
Speaker
What is the snitches get stitches? That's what I can take. So he had a hefty life insurance policy as well that was paid out to his wife and his daughter. And he was struggling to end an affair with the secretary at work while trying to mend that broken marriage. And his extended family members were believed to be involved in organized crime.
00:08:53
Speaker
Holy cow. So he had a lot of people. That's what I meant. He had a lot of people. So the people that he had snitched on, his wife and his daughter, if they were desperate enough for his big life insurance policy, the mistress, who he's ended the affair with. Yes. Or if he's made somebody in his extended family angry, they have the means to take care of them. Yeah.
A Normal Morning Turns Suspicious
00:09:22
Speaker
So the morning of November 21st, 1985, seemed like a normal cold day in Littleton, Colorado. Anthony is like,
00:09:31
Speaker
Begging me to move to Colorado. He would love to live there. It's not gonna happen. But would you be skiing? Have you ever gone skiing? Yeah, I think I've told this story I'm actually positive I did in the diet law pass I went one time and I stayed on the bunny hill and then Anthony finally got me to go Is it green? Is that the first level like that? Yeah
00:09:53
Speaker
on a green slope or whatever they're called. And so I got off the chairlift, which was amazing in its own self. And then I started going down the hill and I was like, oh no, this is way too fast. And so I just fell down, like I just sat down on the hill. And then I like couldn't stand up and I looked like a big beached brown whale, like just rolling back and forth trying to stand up on the slope. I just took my skis off and walked all the way down the hill.
00:10:21
Speaker
I fell every time trying to get off the chairlift. Every time. Yeah, I'm just not a fan. It's just... I'm not coordinated. No. It doesn't go well. Tubing is fun, though. Oh, I have no idea. I don't have to try that. So that's how I picture Colorado. I mean, I'm sure Colorado is different, but in my mind, everything is like ski resorts.
00:10:45
Speaker
That's what I picture too. And he's like, he tries to sell the, he's like the, they have lower allergens in the air. You went in the breakout all the time. That is true. Your, your grass allergy. So on this day, parents were ushering kids out the door to catch the bus. The mailman was starting his delivery route. People were outside walking their dog. What wasn't normal that day was the brown car parked on the street and there's,
00:11:15
Speaker
discrepancies about the make of the car. Some people say it was a 1968 Pontiac, others say it was a 76 Oldsmobile, but everyone agreed that the man inside was a stranger.
00:11:28
Speaker
At the time they thought little to nothing of that. And then Roger Dean opened his garage door sipping us coffee in the crisp air just a little bit before 7 a.m. Now that would have been odd for people in Roger's neighborhood because they knew that he normally would have been on his way to work during that time. So the fact that he was home really stood out to them.
00:11:51
Speaker
I mean, I think that's a little weird. I mean, to me, I like sipping my coffee while sitting in front of the television wrapped up in a blanket. Yeah, and because it was cold that day, I don't think that I would just be standing in my garage in my PJs. Yeah, I think that's a little odd. But it stands out to them not because the action is odd or out of place, but because he would normally be at work.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, because normally he left his house sometime between, I think it was like 6 30 and 6 45 is what I read. So he would have already been gone. But most people paid little attention to the man sipping his coffee and his lounge clothes.
00:12:33
Speaker
and little attention to the man ski mask in hand that exited the unknown car and approached the Dean family home. A ski mask, well, but we're in a, if we're, if it is how I picture it in my mind, we're in a ski area. So if the weather that day was snowy, so it wouldn't have been weird for him to have a ski mask. I guess in my mind ski mask is murderer.
The Attempted Robbery and Shooting
00:12:57
Speaker
okay well like that's that's my mind that's where it goes well it's going to the correct place meanwhile um dj dean who is roger's wife and i immediately go to full house when i hear the name dj was upstairs in the bathroom getting ready for the day when she heard her husband call to her from the bedroom and i don't know about um you allison but this is totally um
00:13:25
Speaker
like a normal everyday occurrence for Anthony and me and I feel like most marriages like Anthony can't find the ketchup in the refrigerator when it's I'm literally like it's on the third shelf in the very front and he's like where's it at I'm like it's the red bottle that says ketchup
00:13:47
Speaker
That actually reminds me a little bit more of my little sleuth hound. She was looking, I can't remember if I told you the story Maggie or not, but she was looking for popcorn in the cupboard and she was like, mom.
00:14:03
Speaker
Isn't there popcorn? And I was like, yeah, it's on that first shelf. It's on the left, right beside the hot chocolate. And she was like, what color box is the hot chocolate? And I said, it's in a red box. And she was like, so it's supposed to be right beside the Nestle hot chocolate? That was so funny. I was like, the Nestle hot chocolate. But yeah, I totally get it. Like, I can picture it in my mind exactly where things are, even if my whole house is a mess.
00:14:33
Speaker
I know where things are.
00:14:35
Speaker
So I can totally see, she was probably like, he's lost the comb, he doesn't know where his deodorant is. Right, she still knows what he's falling for. When she comes into the bedroom though, she didn't find a husband who needed help picking out his tie or wondering where he put his comb. Instead, she saw her husband with a strange man in a ski mask. Okay, now wearing the ski mask inside the home, now is where we have crossed the line.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, now I'll be like, okay, this is weird. And they actually talk, we'll talk a lot about the ski mask. So the intruder ends up, there's varying accounts. Some people say he tied her up and blindfolded her and left her on the bed. Some people say he had Roger tie her up and leave her on the bed.
00:15:24
Speaker
Okay, now, this is all making me wonder how he called for her. Like, did he just say, hey, DJ, like, nonchalantly? So she comes down not wondering? Because if I heard Rodney scream, like, and I could hear panic in his voice, then I would know, climb out the window, like, find a way out of the house, like, don't come downstairs.
00:15:53
Speaker
So, it's very weird to me. There is a old school Unsolved Mysteries case on this and you can watch it on, we watched it through Amazon Prime. There's actually two, I only watched the one. And like, when I was like, Anthony, let's watch this, he said, is it in French this time? Because the one case was in French. No, it's not.
00:16:18
Speaker
But they actually portrayed it, and of course I know, you know, it was just kind of like him standing in their master bedroom and he was like, Hey, DJ, come here. And she just like walked out. Goodness.
00:16:32
Speaker
So I can only imagine the terror she had as she's laying on the bed blindfolded and tied up. I'm immediately thinking I'm going to be raped. I'm going to be killed. Like this is the end. And of course, like mind racing, wondering what your husband has to do with it all.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah, especially if he tied, like, and I don't know if it was like gun to him, like you tie her up, and so they caught her up, or if it was just like, I'm gonna, like, you know, what circumstance was how this go down, right? But she hears her husband walk away.
00:17:06
Speaker
with the masked man. She hears shouts. They're arguing. It's kind of loud. There's banging going on. And despite trying, she told investigators she was unable to hear what the two men were talking about at that time. I mean, I guess if there's like shouts and bangs, I don't know what would be going through my head, honestly. Like at first I was saying, I'd be wondering what my husband had to do with it, but then
00:17:35
Speaker
Even if he did seem calm, in my head, I'd be thinking, okay, is he trying to remain calm so he can like somehow overtake this guy? Right. And then I'd be wondering what, you know, is he okay? I'm hearing like bangs and stuff.
00:17:53
Speaker
And she actually lays there for a couple minutes. Then she hears the mask man yelling at her, demanding to know how much money they had in the bank. And so she's like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And when she's unable to answer the question, he turns to Roger, who answers that the couple had around $30,000 in a savings account, which good for you. Right.
00:18:16
Speaker
That's a lot more than most people have. So she's in here scuffling because the two men leave the room. The last thing that she heard
00:18:27
Speaker
And again, there's varying accounts of these conversations, was basically the masked intruder telling Roger he was taking him to the bank to withdraw that large sum of money. So in my mind, it's basically like he's kidnapping him or taking him hostage to go to the bank and get this money out. And that's when she hears the first gunshot.
00:18:52
Speaker
oh and she's blindfolded it still at this point yes and she's still blindfolded it on the bed so like if i
00:19:02
Speaker
I think I would have had more of a fight in me and not so much of a flight. Like I think once they were like, okay, well, I'm taking you to the bank. And I heard them leaving. Like I would be trying to get up. Yeah, I would too. And especially when I heard the first gunshot, which maybe she was, um, investigators were able to conclude that the first shot was fired actually at the banister and like maybe just to scare Roger. But then I read in some articles where it actually grazed him.
00:19:33
Speaker
OK, I know you're going to get into this and whether he was involved or not, but obviously there's hints at it in your intro and this whole bullet grazing him. It makes me think of almost every Hollywood movie I've seen where somebody wants to make it look like they're involved in a crime and they're not really involved in a crime. And they're like, here, shoot my arm. But like, just graze it. What's that one movie that
00:20:03
Speaker
Um, the two, it's like two friends, I think it's screen. It's one of the screen movies and they're the killer and none of their friends know. And then like at the end, they're going to try to pretend like they were being attacked and they're stabbing each other. That scares the living daylights out of me. I know. Like I could never like, no, well I couldn't commit a crime, let alone let someone stab me or shoot me. Oh my goodness. I wouldn't even be able to see it if somebody said, here, let me give you a paper cut.
00:20:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like, no, please no. Not the paper cut. Even at the doctor's office when I go and they're like, let's prick your finger to check hemoglobin. I'm like, can I sign off that I don't want that? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, OK. Can I just say no, thank you. OK, so it grazes him. Yes, it grazes him. So while his feet were bound in duct tape, Roger somehow made it down the stairs. Or was he downstairs first?
00:21:03
Speaker
True, and it gets, the duct tape gets weirder. Oh no, okay. And that's when the next shot was fired. Roger was actually able to make it outside where his assailant fired several more shots at point blank range and then ran out into the snow. And again, some article said that happened inside the house. Some said that it happened like as Roger was going out the front door, but he was able to make it outside and the assailant runs away.
00:21:33
Speaker
But Roger didn't die? Not right away. Okay. So according... Cause point blank range is close. I mean, I wouldn't think that it would be in my head. That's not far enough away to where you wouldn't die.
00:21:55
Speaker
immediately does it make sense yeah and i didn't see like where he got shot so i don't know if it was like you know he got shot in the stomach because i know that can take you know you have to basically bleed out from that type of thing so i don't know where he got shot so maybe that had something to do with why he didn't die right away right
00:22:16
Speaker
The Lawson article though said that, and I don't know if she saw like this entire altercation, which I feel like would be very traumatizing, but a little girl was looking out her window as she was getting ready to go out to catch the bus for school. And she actually saw the face of the attacker before he slammed the car door, squealed the tires and raced down the street in Rogers once peaceful subdivision.
00:22:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that would be traumatizing. Yeah. And she actually is able to tell investigators that she saw a black man get into the car. But other witnesses, because people are going to work and they're out checking the mail and all that, other witnesses insisted that the man who sped away was a white man.
00:23:04
Speaker
Could it have been a ski mask that she saw? No, because he has dropped the ski mask. Oh. Yeah. And investigators positioned an officer where the little girl saw the killer and because the snow was so bright, there's a lot of
00:23:20
Speaker
eyes for people from Eastern Kentucky to say. But because the snow was so bright and white, the flight officer appeared to have dark skin. So she could have mistaken the skin color. Okay. Like I said, Roger did not die right away. He wasn't pronounced dead on the scene.
Was Roger Dean Involved in His Own Attack?
00:23:40
Speaker
He actually was pronounced dead at a Swedish Medical Center on that same day, about an hour after he was found bleeding in the driveway.
00:23:50
Speaker
Okay, well, I mean, that fact, here I was doubting him, and the fact that he died, well, that makes me think that he wasn't directly involved, but let me ask you a question. Okay. I thought he was supposed to take this assailant to the bank to get $30,000.
00:24:06
Speaker
okay see that's where that's where a lot of this case doesn't make sense to me and when we get into more details that were found at the crime scene like you're going to kind of go back and forth like a if he's going to the bank with the assailant why are his feet duct taped
00:24:22
Speaker
Right. Oh, I didn't even think about that. I didn't even think about that, Maggie. You're right. That makes no sense. Yeah. And there's more with the duct tape, like, later on. Like, I can maybe understand, like, his hands being bound with something so he can't attack you until he gets to the bank, you know, so he can pull it out. But how, why would his feet be duct taped? Like, are you going to carry him? Right. Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. And this is what I'm saying. Why would he have shot him?
00:24:51
Speaker
It's important to get money and they haven't got it yet. Weird. I'm already, I'm already questioning. Yeah. And this too, I was gonna again to go back to DJ. So keep in mind she's also tied up. The blog article says that she was found tied up on the bed wearing her robe. But she says in the Unsolved Mysteries episode that she was able to like
00:25:20
Speaker
Get out of her.
00:25:22
Speaker
ties or make it, she somehow made it downstairs and outside before police actually arrived on the scene because she talks about, and she, of course, in the interview was like, which I totally understand, because when you go through traumatic things, I think your brain purposely blocks out things, so it's not quite as traumatizing for you. But she says she doesn't remember how her blindfold got removed. She doesn't know if a neighbor took it off, if she took it off, if a police officer took it off.
00:25:52
Speaker
But she distinctly remembers someone lifting her blindfold. And she said that I also thought was weird that police had her stay at the neighbor's house while they transported Robert to the hospital or Roger to the hospital. I'd have been like, no, I'm getting an ambulance. Yeah.
00:26:13
Speaker
And it seems weird to me, even if there's an assailant that they weren't already, first of all, transporting her to the hospital just to make sure. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's nothing wrong or questioning her. Yeah, and even one of the lieutenants that were on scene that day said that this was one of those real life cases that would make a great fiction story for like a CSI type of show.
00:26:41
Speaker
just because that's kind of how weird everything is. And from the start, investigators noticed several really peculiar things about the crime scene. So we've already pointed out
00:26:53
Speaker
the duct tape and going to the bank. Yeah, makes no sense. That makes no sense. So there's footprints that they find in the snow that lead to skid marks where the killer's car had been parked because he pulled out of there so fast. Okay. Roger's coffee cup is still full and was sat on top of old newspapers like they were on top of a trash can in the garage.
00:27:17
Speaker
which I find it weird. And only his fingerprints and DJ's fingerprints were on the coffee cup. So like, did this guy come in through the garage then? Like, did he say, I wonder if he said something to Roger that made him like bring him inside? Like maybe the guy said, Hey, can I use your bathroom or can I use your phone or? There's theories on how
00:27:44
Speaker
why Roger was in the garage and how the man got to be in their house. Yeah, because we still need to know why he wasn't at work. Right. And one article that I read said he actually had a meeting scheduled for 7am that morning, like on his work calendar, but he wasn't there. Yeah, so that seems...
00:28:04
Speaker
again odd right so the banister in their home was scarred from stray bullets um the ski mask is found near the top of the stairs and it actually had strands of the killer's hair and traces of his saliva oh so dna evidence but we do have to remember this is 1985 so it was more limited than what we have now right i'm hoping they still have
00:28:29
Speaker
you know, access to. They do. And we'll talk about that too. But they've actually been really good about kind of keeping this case
00:28:42
Speaker
in the public's eye because I think like once we get to the end it should it should be a case that's like almost open and closed like because they have like at this point now you have this dude's DNA and you have the saliva and it's 2020 so I feel like you should be able to locate him or her um but I guess it's just the you know the
00:29:08
Speaker
I guess wrong person doing the wrong thing at the right time to get the DNA needed. Right. So if you remember, Roger was being forced apparently to go to the bank and withdraw money. His wife had been tied up. She was on the bed. Um, now, you know, like I've not ever kidnapped anyone any, you know, before or taken anyone hostage. But I mean, I think
00:29:34
Speaker
If I was going to force a grown man into my car, I would maybe focus on restraining his hands over restraining his feet. And apparently the masked intruder felt that way too, sorta.
00:29:49
Speaker
Really? Yeah. So from the investigation, it appeared that only one of Roger's wrists were tied. Well, that doesn't do anything. It's a bracelet. He was leading him like a dog. It's a leash. So we know that Roger was obviously compliant with the intruder. I mean, if you're going with the one theory that he tied his own wife up,
00:30:15
Speaker
So I'm going, I'm going to assume that he would be still and let the intruder tie him up. If he, if the mask intruder was going to do so, I think would fight more against somebody trying to tie me up. Well, he'd fight both. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
But you know, we were only able to find fibers from the twine on one of his wrists. So, I mean, we have to conclude only one wrist was wrapped with twine. That is bizarre. Yeah, that does nothing. Nothing. Yeah. DJ had been both tied and blindfolded. And it looked like at first glance that Roger had been too.
00:31:02
Speaker
Again, though, only maybe, or sort of. Hmm. So for the looks of it, Roger's glasses have been duct taped. I'm assuming like to him, which I think I would think you would have hair in the duct tape fibers if they had been removed. The glasses were duct taped? Yeah. And so when I picture that, I picture it so like he can't see anything, you know?
00:31:30
Speaker
Why would you not take his glasses off? Okay, this was the point that I had. If I were going to blindfold someone, I don't think that my first thought would be because Roger had his contacts in when he was murdered.
00:31:48
Speaker
so you wouldn't have contacts and glasses yeah so someone would have his glasses on and if i was going to blindfold someone i wouldn't be like here put your glasses on and let me put duct tape over them like i would just take a t-shirt or i don't know i've never done it underwear something and put over their eyes literally zero about this entire thing makes sense
00:32:13
Speaker
I know and it's like maybe this dude is like to say what my mommy would say like flying by the seat of his pants and just like grabbing things and making it work because it's just I would I'm telling you right now I would not put duct tape over glasses
00:32:31
Speaker
I wonder if you can see up and you can see down there's a gap. I thought I just just put the duct tape over his eyes. Don't even put the glasses on there. It's not like he doesn't know where he's going. How are they going to get to the bank? Right. That's what so some of the story just does not make sense. And honestly, like, there are articles on this case. But as we've talked about before, a lot of them say the same thing. And I wanted to find something that, like,
00:33:01
Speaker
gave me like, I love when I could find like timelines. Yeah. But this, I couldn't find anything like that. Okay. If the whole point of this entire thing is for this man in this 76 Pontiac or whatever Oldsmobile is to get money.
00:33:27
Speaker
then why the heck would he blindfold and duct tape the feet of the man who is supposed to walk down to the car to get in it, to take him to the bank. And walk into the bank. And then before they even get out of the house, shoot to kill. Right. And like if you, okay, let's say you want him to be blindfolded while he goes to the bank, while you're going to the bank. Why? I don't know.
00:33:56
Speaker
But you're going to have to take the blindfold off once you get to the bank. And what are you going to do? Rip duct tape off his face? Yeah. Off his glasses? Yeah. First of all, it's not going to come off that easy because duct tape on glass, not a good combo. So I just think there are just a lot of things that are just really weird about this case.
00:34:18
Speaker
Many investigators think that while no one in the neighborhood recognized the man, he was no stranger to Roger. I mean, because again, he walks towards Roger's house without a mask on. So it's not like, what purpose does the blindfold even serve? Like he's already seen your face. You know what? Didn't think about that either. So it makes sense to blindfold DJ because she's not seeing your face.
00:34:43
Speaker
if you're the masked intruder dude. It doesn't make sense to Roger. In fact, according to that Unsolved Mysteries case that I watched, it's believed that Roger raising the garage door was a signal for this man to approach the house. Because many investigators actually think Roger was kind of in on this thing.
00:35:09
Speaker
I mean, I get where they're coming from because it does seem
00:35:16
Speaker
All of DJ's situation seems legit that she would see the intruder with a ski mask on and so she is blindfolded. Because we know the ski mask comes off because you said it was left there at the crime scene. And for her to be bound to the bed so she can't follow. But all of Roger's situation
00:35:42
Speaker
It seems ridiculous, like every bit of it, to duct tape over glasses, to tie only one wrist, to duct tape his feet together.
00:35:56
Speaker
Like none of that, I don't believe any of it. Yeah, and investigators were the same. They believed that Roger hired an individual to come to his house to abduct him to take him to the bank so he could withdraw that $30,000 from his account and then leave him somewhere with it to himself. So I don't know if it was like one of those things where he's like trying to start a new life. He's like, you know, I don't know. Here's where I'm torn.
00:36:26
Speaker
Let's assume that that's true. Okay.
00:36:30
Speaker
My problem with that theory, as much as I know I'm contradicting myself, I hear myself say it, right? Like I just said everything is fishy about Roger. But then at the same time, in my head, I'm thinking, okay, if this Roger Dean fella wants to start a new life and he hired somebody to pretend like they're being robbed or whatever to go get this $30,000 so he can use it
00:36:59
Speaker
you know, for whatever frivolous intent he has, right, to start a new life or whatever. If this guy who's committing this crime, right, the guy in the ski mask, why wouldn't he be smart enough to actually take Roger to the bank, allow him to get the $30,000 and then kill him?
00:37:21
Speaker
Yeah. You're gonna murder somebody and lose any $30,000, you know what I mean? For a little while till you get caught anyway. No, exactly. But I mean, that's the part that doesn't make sense to me.
00:37:38
Speaker
I think we're not the only ones that have these questions because even someone from the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, Tony Spurlock, suspects the exact same things that we've been suspecting. He says, quote, We believe the victim, Roger Dean, knew his assailant and may have made some arrangements to meet him, but it went bad, end quote. So, you know, like,
00:38:03
Speaker
I just don't understand, I don't, there's a lot that's in the, I feel like we just don't know, like do police know this and they're just not telling us or like, there's a lot of blame. Yeah. The police did find out during the investigation that Roger had taken that $30,000 from his business account and put it into a secret account. So DJ really would not have known that they had $30,000 in a bank account. So what was going through her mind when she hears them say that?
00:38:32
Speaker
Well, she knows he's got a girl on the side. Oh my goodness. So now she's probably thinking, what else is he not telling me about?
The Affair and a Secretary's Disappearance
00:38:41
Speaker
Right. So, you know,
00:38:44
Speaker
The $30,000 being put into the secret account, that immediately makes my mind go to his affair. So DJ thought that her husband had ended this affair with his secretary, but investigators discovered he'd actually met with the woman just a week before he was killed. So to make it even more sad, I guess is maybe not the correct word, but DJ actually knew his secretary. They were family friends.
00:39:14
Speaker
I know. That makes it even worse. Yeah. It's like double betrayal. Yeah. And even more like, you're gonna say, you're gonna gasp again. Okay. The secretary soon disappeared after Roger's murder. Disappeared? Yeah. Her and her son moved
00:39:40
Speaker
gone. See, that's not a good look. Not looking good. Leave down. Some sources say that she and her son haven't been ruled out as suspects while there are other articles that say they were never really persons of interest.
00:39:58
Speaker
In that same Lawson article, Sperlich said, quote, we investigated the girlfriend's son and were not satisfied with the investigation. Added that the evidence was inconclusive regarding the pair's involvement. Oh. Now, OK.
00:40:18
Speaker
We know we had $30,000. Did anybody ever touch the $30,000? Not that I read. Okay. Because part of me was thinking, if you follow that logic of this investigator, then I was thinking, well, maybe the $30,000
00:40:40
Speaker
was like a joint account since it was a secret account for Roger and the secretary. And then the son wanted to find out about it, you know what I mean? And then took him out of the equation because they were going to take the money, but then if the money's still there. Right. Cause that's, I kind of thought that maybe it was like the, the girlfriend and the son wanted the money, but didn't want Roger type of situation. Right.
00:41:10
Speaker
But they've interviewed hundreds of people, hundreds of people who could possibly have been angry with Roger. Oh, that's right. I forgot about all of the things. Yes. Yeah, anyone. They've interviewed business partners, associates, acquaintances.
00:41:32
Speaker
were even included in this ever growing pool of suspects, but not enough evidence ever came forward that they can make a clear arrest. The family members were also investigated because remember they were kind of sketchy. And according to that, um, detective Spurlock, he said, quote, the only people who stood to gain anything financially from Dean's death were his wife and daughter. And they both cooperated and passed a polygraph in quote, but you know, I think
00:42:03
Speaker
Like we're just probably gonna get on our soapbox for a little bit because I don't
00:42:09
Speaker
Like, you know where I'm gonna go. Like, why does it matter that they pass the, yeah, why does that matter? That they pass the polygraph test. Failing a polygraph test doesn't prove that you're guilty. We don't recognize them in a court of law. So why does passing one prove that you're innocent? I agree. Which I mean, I'm not saying that it was DJ and the daughter, but it's still like, you shouldn't just be like, well, they pass the polygraph, so.
00:42:39
Speaker
While Roger was an informant for the Denver Police Department, investigators don't think that's what led to his killing, which is weird to me. Well, I don't know if they would, okay, obviously we love our police officers, but I don't know if the Denver Police Department would want to admit that it was him being an informant to them that led to his killing because then it would also become an informant. That's true.
00:43:08
Speaker
I don't know.
00:43:10
Speaker
I tell Anthony all the time, I'm like, don't come to me if you commit a serious crime. Oh, yeah. I'll be the first to turn you in. You'd be getting the stitches. Yeah. You'd just get stitches. Because I'm going to be a snitch. Right. So to me, the informant thing, I think would be, it just makes kind of the most sense, I guess. I mean, he had to have made a lot of people mad by passing along information to the police. So I'm sure.
00:43:39
Speaker
you know, people who weren't happy with him. Yeah. Especially if his role as an informant meant that he had to testify against people in court because then they know that it's from him, that the information is coming. And I mean, people have families and they have friends on the outside. That's true. I hadn't thought about that. And that's like,
00:44:04
Speaker
This is bad, but like that's like at work when you get those like survey emails and they're supposed to be anonymous and they want you to be truthful. And I'm like, is this really anonymous though? I question the same thing about it. I know anything that's supposed to be anonymous. I'm like, but is it though? Yeah. And then what would be the repercussions if someone, you know, like we said,
00:44:29
Speaker
There's a large number of people who could possibly want this man dead. So remember, even at the beginning of the episode, I mentioned Rogers extended family had criminal involvement.
00:44:44
Speaker
Many were suspects and not all of them have actually been ruled out as a suspect. According to that Lawson article, detectives think Roger may have actually invited perhaps like a distant relative he knew over to meet, you know, just like for a family get together at his house the morning of his killing. So, you know, maybe that's why it's kind of casual and he came through the garage door. Right. So could it have been like an angry family member getting revenge?
00:45:14
Speaker
You know, was it someone Roger hired to stage the whole let's get three or $30,000 out of the bank thing? Spurlock said this is a classic example of how many people do you know who know people who are involved in bad things?
00:45:30
Speaker
And you know what's crazy about that question that he asked? Like how many people do you know who know people who are involved in bad things? Like even though I personally am not involved in bad things and my
00:45:46
Speaker
like closest friends and family are not people involved in bad things. I'm sure they all know people who are involved in bad things. Right. And we might know, we might not know them. Right. Yeah. It makes you think. And like really that's
00:46:09
Speaker
than most that we know from the investigation.
A Mysterious Letter and Extortion
00:46:11
Speaker
It really didn't go anywhere. DJ and the daughter Tammy tried to get on with life as normal as possible. Their family was familiar with loss. DJ's son had died a few years earlier and the family struggled to keep it together then and now with the death of Roger it seemed they could barely put one foot in front of the other.
00:46:32
Speaker
Then on July 21st, 1990, so five years later, and I saw disputes about this timeline too, which I thought was weird. I feel like you should know the years of this. So just as life was beginning to seem normal again, DJ received a strange letter in the mail. We're going back to the letters. This is like the third week in a row.
00:46:55
Speaker
Yeah. And the author claimed to be Roger's killer and demanded DJ give him $100,000 or her daughter Tammy would be murdered as well. What? Yes!
00:47:11
Speaker
That makes no sense either to me because even if before the killer knows they only got $30,000, oh, unless they knew about the life insurance policy. That's true. I hadn't even thought of that. That's a good point.
00:47:28
Speaker
Part of that letter in an article called Unsolved Mystery of Roger Dean read, do you know that I've met your daughter, Tami? On a few occasions. Don't make me kill her. Your son's dead. Your husband's dead. Do not risk your daughter. She's the last one left. Holy cow. I know.
00:47:51
Speaker
Yeah, I'd be freaking out. Yeah, and she was. Like authorities. Yeah, she immediately called police and the FBI were also contacted and they believed at the time that the letter actually was written by Rogers Killer.
00:48:07
Speaker
Well, and again, if that is the case, cause I was thinking in my head, like, how do you go from knowing that somebody only has $30,000 to asking for $100,000? And the only way that that makes sense to me is if the killer did know Roger and knew that he had a life insurance policy. That's a good point. And I don't, I did not read really anywhere where that was brought up.
00:48:34
Speaker
And maybe that's why they killed him because they were like, why would I take $30,000 now when I can get more later? Oh, such a good point. Thanks, Maggie. I try. My mind's blown. Case solved. That's right. We figured it out. We just don't know who did it. We just know their motive. We know why. We know the why. We just don't know the who.
00:49:02
Speaker
The family was put under surveillance. In fact, the FBI had people that lived with them in their home 24 hours a day, which honestly I would be like, move on in. Just as the letter outlined on July 27, so just a couple of days later, the extortionist called demanding money that Roger owed him. DJ was able to keep the
00:49:32
Speaker
man on the line long enough that FBI was able to trace the phone call. Oh, that's good news. Yeah. Cause she's just like asking questions like what, how, why did he owe you money? Like that type of thing. Right. And the FBI traced the call back to a phone booth in nearby Denver for a young listener's pre-cell phone. Right. There were these phones placed in locations in the public that you could take money
00:50:01
Speaker
not on a debit card but actual money and put it on the phone and make a phone call. Yep and as a kid you'd run around and you'd stick your fingers in the change part to see if anybody forgot to take their change. And sometimes you got lucky. Yep. Each time though or when they are able to trace the call by the time they get there the caller is already gone. Wow, fingers.
00:50:26
Speaker
always. More phone calls actually come in to DJ though. This time
00:50:32
Speaker
to plan a drop for the money. So the man tells DJ. So we're getting like word to the nitty gritty. The man tells a DJ to go to a nearby supermarket. So I'm 20 miles north of her house to wait by the payphones there for further instruction. So she of course obeys, which I would have like peed my pants. She has an FBI agent like in the floorboard of her car.
00:51:00
Speaker
with her. Yeah, me too. And she had, they had surveillance vans nearby. Still, I would have been nervous, but she did attempt to lure this extortionist into a trap. So she waits by the payphones for several minutes before the phone finally rings. The supposed killer gives her instructions on where to drop the money. And he says that DJ is to follow the instructions to a T or he would come after her and her daughter.
00:51:29
Speaker
So he tells her to drive again to an apartment complex and leave the $100,000 in an alley behind the apartments. So DJ assures him the money would be there and she did do that. I mean, I'm basically scared of everything. Yeah.
00:51:50
Speaker
like you see those like funny videos where it's like going up the stairs after you turn the lights and it's like people running up the stairs that's me oh maggie if i turn the light off in my bedroom so you have to walk through my bedroom to get to you know the master bathroom
00:52:06
Speaker
And if my bedroom light isn't on and I turn that bathroom light off and I have to walk through my bedroom in the dark, I'm picturing like every dark monster there could possibly be behind me like trying to reach out for me and I run. Yeah. It's so sad. Yeah, I'm not there. There's a legitimate threat. I don't know what I would do.
00:52:28
Speaker
Like even when I go to bed, because Anthony and I, marriage is nothing like you see on TV. We do not go to bed at the same time. Anthony is like going to bed at two and three in the morning and I'm like, it's 11. It's my bedtime. It's like past my bedtime. But like when I go to bed, I'll be like, I'll leave the door open and I'll say leave the hallway light on so it's not dark in here until you come to bed. Like I'm such a baby.
00:52:56
Speaker
But you know, she does have that FBI agent in her car. So she goes through with it at 10 p.m. on August 19th, 1990. So I was almost born into the world by this point. My mother was seven months pregnant.
00:53:15
Speaker
PJ left the money at the spot where the extortionist directed her to. FBI agents watched the bag until dawn the next day, and not a single person picked it up, touched it, or looked at it.
00:53:34
Speaker
What? Yes. So they had to have somehow found out that the FBI is watching. So that's what the experts believe. The deans received one more phone call from this guy. And he calls Tammy to tell her that they did not follow the instructions. And because of that, she would be killed when she least expects it. Yes.
00:54:01
Speaker
I'd be like, um, how do I keep FBI living with me forever? Um, I need to be put in the witness protection program dead serious. I would say that there's, I'm telling you, I would never feel never feel safe, but they have never heard from him again.
00:54:21
Speaker
And Special Agent Bob Pence from the Denver FBI said the same thing that you said. He said, quote, whether or not he spotted something, whether or not he just took for granted that law enforcement was involved or whether or not he got cold feet. And although he didn't detect any type of law enforcement, he was just too scared to actually pick it up. I think those are all possibilities, end quote. I also think that
00:54:48
Speaker
Maybe this was just a big, like, joke that he never intended to pick up the money, he never was associated with the crime at all, and was just, like, some sicko playing a cruel joke on them. No, because, I mean, if it were in the news, I guess, but I'm telling you,
00:55:09
Speaker
Well, I guess it could be some crazy sicko asking for $100,000 because it's like this extreme amount or whatever. We all see the Hollywood movies. That could be true. Or I'm going to go back to my theory that it could be somebody who knew him and knew that they got, you know, the life insurance and either they just wanted DJ to suffer more. And so now she's also suffering financially.
00:55:39
Speaker
or they got wind of the FBI, I don't know. Well, the FBI at this point do believe that they have just been let on. In fact, in that Lawson article, investigators aren't convinced that this extortionist was even the killer. When DJ was able to ask him questions, he could only provide information that was released to the media, that he didn't say anything that everybody didn't already know.
00:56:08
Speaker
So they suspect this was just someone who knew Tammy and saw an opportunity to make money, like you said. So somebody who knew they maybe had come into life insurance money. Spencer Campbell said in his article off campus out in the cold, three local cold case murders that have been largely forgotten, quote, the frustrating lack of suspects, however, has not led the Douglas County Sheriff's Office to quit on the case.
00:56:33
Speaker
DJ Dean still lives in the area and continues to support the efforts of law enforcement and finding her husband's killer. Detectives enlisted the help of the Colorado Bureau of Investigations to re-examine and retest evidence collected at the scene, including DNA samples. The passing of time has benefited the case because of technological advances, Spurlock says, but they have still been unable to match the evidence with any potential suspects."
00:57:02
Speaker
All it takes is enough people doing those little, you know, genetic DNA tests. I talk about that. I talk about that. Yes. So like in every case, there are details that aren't released about, you know,
00:57:20
Speaker
Things that happen. So they say there are details about the murder and the extortion case that they haven't released yet in the hopes that those clues will pin down who actually did this when they can get someone in for questioning.
00:57:35
Speaker
There are six suspects that remain in investigation and that the FBI would like to collect DNA samples from, but they all declined voluntary. Why? If the FBI called me and said, I need you to come do a mouth swap, I would say I'll be right there because I didn't do anything. Right.
00:57:59
Speaker
But they denied to do that. There's just so there isn't enough evidence to merit warrants to compel like you know to make them give the samples. So basically we're just playing a waiting game like we're waiting for somebody to do something that gets their parents or DNA into the system. Like you said though a lot of people are pushing for DNA to be used in the case.
00:58:22
Speaker
like genetics through genetics or whatever and yes to my former my former principal and Allison's current principal if you are still listening to us i still watch the genetic detective so she needs to get onto the roger dean case and go through all that yes because i guarantee she can figure out who it is yep but she could so this is a quote
00:58:49
Speaker
that I took and it says quote we believe the murderer knew Roger and that guy after the murder must have talked to someone Spurlock says adding he doesn't believe that Salem entered the home with an intent to kill Roger they think he went to get money and panicked when Roger fought back so Spurlock I think is kind of like us he thinks that Roger knew the guy the guy didn't come to his house
00:59:18
Speaker
necessarily looking to kill Roger. He just came to his house looking to make money but when Roger fought back that's when things turned ugly and I think that's I don't know though it's still like even if that's the case like your third cousin comes over and you think it's just to meet up with you to shoot the breeze and then he ends up trying to steal from you
00:59:45
Speaker
like the duct tape, the glasses, the wrist restraint, like just none of that makes sense. But then part of me does say that maybe it was just like something gone wrong because I feel like if this had been like a seasoned
01:00:05
Speaker
criminal why would you just leave Tammy on the bed like she wasn't like she could get up and move she just had her feet and hands bound and blindfold so why would she just leave her there i feel like you would kill her too right i know well then that leads me to think that it's not the organized crime family members
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah. They would be much more tidy about any sort of crime. I kind of just think it was maybe someone that he knew and the plan evolved as things happened in the house. I think maybe they had a plan to maybe just originally
01:00:54
Speaker
scare them into giving them money than it was, well, I'm going to take them to the bank. And then it was, Oh, I'm going to kill them. I don't know. I think, I don't know who obviously, but I think it has something to do with either the prostitution ring or the affair.
01:01:20
Speaker
I think, I think that you're right. I think it's not someone who normally commits a crime like this because there seem to be too many mistakes, including leaving the ski mask with your hair follicles. Yeah. I think, um, but the fact that his restraints make no sense and the fact that they didn't
01:01:51
Speaker
go get the money, that seems to say to me that he knew the person, that the intent wasn't actually to restrain him just to look like they were, and that the goal was actually his death and not the money.
An Unsolved Case with Many Motives
01:02:09
Speaker
Or, like I said before, they realized with him dead that they would get more money. So, I don't know though.
01:02:19
Speaker
See, I kind of go with. We need you to tell us. Yeah. Cause I kind of go with like, he knew this guy, he came like welcomed him into his home. The guy thought that maybe Roger had money at home. And that's when he started to restrain him. And then when he found out he didn't, he was like, well, then I want to take you to the bank. And then it escalated from there. And that's how Roger ended up dead. Yeah. That makes sense too. The sheriff's office.
01:02:49
Speaker
has not lost hope and they ask anyone with any information to call the currently detective on the case, Lieutenant Kevin Duffy at 303-660-7548.
01:03:05
Speaker
I feel like this case was different than most we cover on coffee and cases, unlike many of our cases where there are no suspects, where no one can think of a single person who would want to harm the victim. This case has many possibilities. From family members to strangers he turned over to the police, our victim today had no short supply of people who would want to see him gone. Despite that, he leaves behind a grieving wife and daughter who deserved to have peace.
01:03:34
Speaker
According to Unsolved Mysteries, DJ had this to say about the man she loved. Quote, In my heart, I can't believe that Roger had anything to do with this. This is the man I was married to for 26 years. And yes, there have been some personal problems in the last years, especially since the death of our son, but I knew this man too well. End quote.
01:03:57
Speaker
Someone knows something about this case. Someone overheard something. Someone saw something. It just takes the right person stepping forward and doing the right thing to close one of Colorado's craziest cold cases. The police already have the killer's DNA. Now they just need you to come forward with the right piece of evidence so they can put this killer behind bars.
01:04:23
Speaker
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01:04:52
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.