Hownslow Magic, Salomon Into Triathlon, Europe Recaps | Episode 127

Transcript

Speaker: Music

Speaker: This episode is brought to you by ASICS, proud supporters of Aussie trail running and our very own Jess Jason. ASICS are known for pushing the limits of speed on the trails and that's exactly what's behind the new Metafuji Trail 2, a brand new X-shaped carbon plate positioned between two lightweight layers of foam built to help you race faster and more confidently on the most demanding of terrain.

Speaker: Head to ASICS.com.au to find out more. Hello and welcome to episode 127 of the Peak Pursuits podcast, where I think for the first time in a long time, we're all back in Oz, finally.

Speaker: Coming at you, myself from Melbourne, and then I am joined by Jess Jason, who's currently in Perth, I believe. Hey guys, yep, I'm in Perth. and Started the day off with a run that finished at the beach and a swim, so I'm pretty happy. Yeah.

Speaker: What a way to start the day. That is definitely winning the morning. And I'm also joined by Vlad Ixl, who is also in Perth. So we have two in the same spot. Yeah, um happy to be back. Nice to be back home and not living out of a suitcase finally. Did all my washing after a few weeks of like hand washing everything. So yeah, nice feeling to be back. i So you you don't do the whole trip to the laundromats in ah in um Europe? I did that five times. Yeah, if if we stay in like one location for a bit longer than I would. But if it's like the last few weeks in Europe, I just had to like change places like every few days. So it was hand washing like even if you try your best, it's never like super clean. ah So yeah, I just got to got through those few weeks and then try to stay away from people. Yeah, fair, fair. We were moving about every couple of days the entire six weeks of our trip. So there was just a couple of times where you're in that interim between checking out of the previous hotel can't check into the next one. And so we're like, well, two hours at the laundromat it is, but they're so boring.

Speaker: They're so boring. Anyway, awesome. Coming at you this week, everyone listening, we have obviously a catch up with the three of us because we've got no guests this week, but we've had plenty going on internally here.

Speaker: We have a little bit of news, some new partnerships um in the global scene and post-UTMB stuff before a Metafuji Trail 2 shoe review that Jess and Vlad will take you through.

Speaker: And some, as usual, pretty cool results over the weekend, particularly Hounslow that everyone might have been following along. But ah Vlad, I'm going to start with you. You've just done the trip back from Europe um and you had one last race between a couple of weeks ago when you were last on and now. So, I suppose just talk us through the last couple of weeks and how the end of the trip was and now what ah you're next looking at now that you're home. um Yeah, so pretty much I had that um race in Italy, um the World Cup. I'm not going to pronounce try and pronounce the name of that race, um but it was stacked. And they're actually like really nice of them to be able to um invite a lot of runners. So I got free accommodation and free food nice for those four or five days.

Speaker: um Yeah, which was really nice. It looks like the local government has to spend a bit of money on that event. They have the budget for it. um What wasn't too nice is definitely sharing bunk beds with another like three people um didn't really sleep too well leading up to the race. And I was like, once I got there and I saw how small those bunk beds are, that room um with another three guys.

Speaker: was I was like, I was looking for another accommodation, but it was a bit too late. Everything was booked out. So i was like, oh no. ah So yeah, pretty bad sleep for three nights. I'm pretty light sleeper anyway. So there's a lot of movement, people coming in and out.

Speaker: um It felt a bit like a hostel. um yeah So yeah, a bit unlucky with the lead up to the race. um But otherwise, like a really nice area out of Italy. So it's pretty much 25 minute drive from like Lago Majora.

Speaker: So, yeah yeah yeah, quite high peaks and um like any of those mountain towns, fairly cheap overall and just beautiful. But yeah, being a World Cup, I knew that it was going to be stacked, but that VK was really stacked and I finished fifty second um yeah And I didn't think I did too bad. like you know It's not like I had a bad day or an amazing day. it was just like a solid day out there.

Speaker: um Is it a bulk start or one at a time? Yeah. no So the female the female race started 45 minutes earlier um and then the male won it at 10.45, which was pretty warm by that time. um I felt like they could have started a little bit earlier, like being summer. um Yeah, it was...

Speaker: yeah i would say about 30 degrees when we started so i actually started with an ice bandana um because it was actually pretty warm and a new like running up here you're not going to run that fast so like the ice bouncing around wasn't much of a big deal um yeah but yeah it was pretty warm so the first so it's it's a thousand meters in 4.2k so that's about 25 um gradient for the whole thing but the first 500 meters is in about 3K and then 500 meters in 1.2K. So like the end of that race gets really, really steep. um

Speaker: I kind of started right at the back. There was 150 people doing the VK. So I started right at the back. I was just trying to cool off as much as I can. I was like, I don't want to stand in line there for like five minutes and...

Speaker: and like under the sun so I was just with the water bottle pouring it on my head and stuff um and started right at the back and then slowly started overtaking people and it worked fine in the first half of the race when it wasn't that steep I was just like moving up the field but then when it got like really steep um and I had to hike I felt like I didn't go anywhere like I just stayed at the same place um obviously I don't do a crazy amount of hiking I don't think I'm a bad hiker, but I'm also like not a great hiker. So I just kind of stayed in my place um and just pushed through those last 500 meters of elevation gain, which was pretty tough, like pretty close to about 45% gradient at that point. Yeah. Were there...

Speaker: Sorry, were there many people using poles at that gradient? Because one thing I fly and do for like it's a bulk start VK and you've got gradients that much. So many times you get caught, if you're behind someone using poles, you feel like you're about to get it in the face because like where they're putting in the poles, if they slip at all. Like I just remember the couple I've done in Italy, they were they felt treacherous. at that grade no there was no polls at this race so i yeah don't know the rules so it was pretty cool because i just sent them an email just asking for an entry to the race um that's after we found out that the big sex book got cancelled at the utmb um i just wanted to see if there's a race close by and i just sent them an email and they said yeah you can have an elite entry and that was it like literally nothing and then i get like

Speaker: you know, an email that you've been registered. So I didn't even have to do anything. Like they took care of everything. So I didn't really know the rules, but nobody was there with polls. So I'm guessing they were not allowed for that race.

Speaker: um So that was pretty lucky. But yeah, i was pretty much like hiking the second half of the VK, like in a Congo line, like you couldn't overtake anybody. it was too dangerous to overtake, um you know, way too steep and right on the face of of that mountain.

Speaker: So yeah, that was, but you know, yeah I'm already like VO2 max. So in many ways I was like, I can't go any quicker. i can't hike any quicker anyway. um yeah yeah And then yeah, right towards the end, I just overtook like two or three people right at the finish line. And my body went into some crazy lactate mode that at the end, like I could not move for about a minute, like just like could not move for a minute just from that small sprint, just like going all out at like,

Speaker: The last bit was super steep, was probably like 55% or 60%. And I just tried to like overtake people on the line there. And then yeah hiking back back into town was probably harder than the race. Like like you got to go down that VK.

Speaker: um And by that point, it's already like 32 degrees, 33 degrees. And it was long. It was a long way down to the town. So definitely an experience and looking at the photos after it and some of the videos, I can't believe that some of the top guys um ran those final sections or like ran the whole thing. Yeah.

Speaker: Literally just, yeah. These races are like, I think there's like, there's some, VKs are always find interesting because it's like you have to have incredibly different tactics whether it is a mass start or a single start because obviously the single start lets you pace it for yourself. in a way and like when you get to that point you're not in a conga line at any point so no one's ever dictating your pace so it's more of that true test of just fitness pure fitness and that's it whereas the mass start it's like partially where you are stand on the start line can actually dictate somewhat of your finish position because like you said if you're at the back you could have started at the front covered the first 500 meters climb in the same amount of time but just being further up the field so once you hit that conga line of where everyone's traveling a similar pace

Speaker: you kind of just end up in a higher position yeah sometimes. Yeah, yeah yeah you're 100% right. And it wasn't like I kind of had a look at the profile and some of the Strava segments before the race, and I was like, what do I do? Do I try and push the runnable first three k and then just hold on? in the other Because you can't I guess you can't lose too much time on the hiking. Yeah. No, yeah.

Speaker: I mean, you can hike a little bit slower and faster, of course, but unless you really hit the wall where you like, you know, death march and you're back to the finish line, um you're not going to lose too much time. So I did think about that, but I really thought that people will struggle in the heat.

Speaker: and they didn't as much as I expected them. um Once we did get to the second half of the course and we got a bit higher up, it was a bit cooler and it was windy as well. So lucky wasn't too bad. It's also the end of summer.

Speaker: Yeah, I thought more people will struggle. um i really thought that people will i was i was expecting to pick up more people at the end because of the heat and yeah that did not happen like everybody did well and then i was asking people it like was last year this hot and they're like yeah it's pretty much about the same um but yeah i was 10 minutes behind patrick who won patrick um from run together who won the world champs so obviously like a pretty good uphill runner but like there's no way that i'll be behind him in a 10k race i'll probably be like

Speaker: maybe four minutes behind him in a 10k race he'll probably run 28 i'll run 31 you know yep maybe maybe maybe you'll go under 28 but 10 minutes is a long long time in vk um yeah so yeah that kind of also made me realize um my weakness in the very steep stuff so a lot of the stuff even at home like you know i kind of do a bit of work around 10, 15% on the treadmill. But once it gets to, a yeah, 25, 30%, I guess I'm pretty bad at that.

Speaker: um Yeah, and also the treadmill the treadmill, I think does great at conditioning you like aerobically for the uphills and some of the muscular work, but it is still different pushing off the moving surface versus the still surface. And obviously even more so on the trail when sometimes you do have a flat surface to push off on a rock and sometimes your foot's just on this stupid gradient and it's slipping or like I feel like my carbs and everything are activating incredibly differently on the treadmill versus outdoors. So it's always that like um conditioning process of like...

Speaker: I think we'd be a lot better at hiking if we always had access to that steep hiking outdoors um stuff. like And you can make up for some of it on the treadmill, but by no means all of it at any point. yeah Even when I've got a treadmill that goes to 50%, but you put that on 50% and it feels nothing like outdoors at 50%. Yeah, and I think like oh also when I'm like in Europe,

Speaker: like when I'm looking at where I'm going to run today, if I see it's like over 25%, usually I don't go there because I don't feel like hiking. Fair. That's not going to help. Yeah, that's kind of like my own fault as well in many ways. And then in Perth, I would never hike um in any of my trail runs pretty much. So...

Speaker: Yeah, and also like um I think I probably chose the wrong shoes. So like one one of my friends um gave me like the new Adidas shoes, like, you know, the $750 like UTMB um like during utnb week And I was yeah like, wow, they feel really nice on the uphills, like on runnable uphills, obviously. So i was like, yeah maybe this would work for the VK. This is like, you know, three days before the VK and when I was in Chamonix. And I was like, maybe this would work well in the VK. And he actually did till he got really steep.

Speaker: And then... Yeah, then you're not getting any give back from the foam when you're hiking. Like they're not helping at all. They're hindering. No, exactly. Yeah, exactly. You actually like lose balance and stability because you're so far away from the ground.

Speaker: And everybody that did the VK were wearing pretty minimalist shoes, except, except actually the Kenyans that they did that with their own super shoes, which are not super high stack, but still carbon plated.

Speaker: But yeah, I don't know how they move up the mountain so quick. which I think carbon plated can still be fine. It's just if you're too high off the ground, you lose a lot of hiking efficiency at that point. So yeah, the the p plate I don't think is necessarily like, I don't know if it's helping you, but I'm not sure it's hindering, but excessive soft foam will definitely yeah not be helping. Yeah. And also I think probably the main thing is the shoe is like way heavier as well. So 270 grams compared to like a 150 gram per shoe, like a really basic one that they use for VK. So a lot of them had like really basic like running flats with just like heavy grip on it, yeah which would have been perfect for the hiking sections right at the end.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Jess, have you raced a VK? Like raced, raced one? No, I haven't. um I wonder if you'd like it because it has like that mix of um like speed in some aspects and that's look like it's very short, quick burn. It's like that, different yeah, it's different.

Speaker: I don't know. i'm not Yeah, I think I'm similar to Vlad. Like I'm not very good at hiking. Like I'm just not very efficient at it. um But if I could to find one that's just runnable the whole way. but You can. Yeah, a VK that's over 5K, I think that that's kind of something that I really like. Like 20% gradient, you know, you can still run the whole way. It's going to hurt, but you can still kind of move.

Speaker: fairly quickly but like yeah the vk in Chamonix um that's like three point three k that's yeah that's painful I think I actually somehow like stumbled on that for a bit while I was there and I was like got off it straight away I was like nope this isn't for me did you stumble on the first bit of it yeah That's the easiest bit. like Yeah, I was going to say the first bit is the nicest. Yeah, the first bit is a good. The first bit is sweet. All the switchbacks.

Speaker: They're actually great for a hill session, those switchbacks. Yeah, it's the second half. once you're above those switchbacks, you're done. yeah Yeah. Oh, not fun. Well, it's a nice way to finish for you though, Vlad. Get a nice lactate burn going on. Yeah, and also like... um Yeah, and also a reality check as well. Like in general, I think that even though i thought I was fairly fit after six weeks in Europe, especially on the uphills, um maybe I wasn't that fit. like Well, no, I think your fitness is fine. You just don't have the hiking conditioning. They're two different things. The muscular conditioning for the hiking, you've been avoiding hiking. Like we already know why. Like you've already, as you said, like you don't hike in Perth and then even when you're in Europe, you've been avoiding a lot of the hiking. Yeah. It is, it's less fitness and more like having the actual muscle conditioning for that terrain. Cause as you said, like up until the end of the runnable stuff, you're sweet. Um, and like once it's steep, it's no longer like, I don't think your fitness is necessarily the limiting factor as much as how hard your muscles are working differently to what they're used to.

Speaker: But I mean, if you're a fitter, you should be able to run a longer part of that, of that course. Not many people are running 45%. I mean, yeah, the guys, that the the front guys were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 100% like the front guys will be, I guess. But um yeah, not many people will be. But yeah, like I hear you. I think it's not as much of a fitness test at that point though as conditioning test.

Speaker: Yeah, it's a combination, I guess, strength, weight to power ratio as well. um yeah Yeah, yeah. All those things. But still, and as you said, it's great to have then the motivation to go, well, I can get better at that.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I definitely started doing some pliers like two days after it because i was like, I need to be a little bit stronger. um Yeah, nice. On that really steeper stuff.

Speaker: What sort of pliers would you do to get better at that? I think anything that you're jumping up, um even if it's small, kind of one single steps. And that's what I've been doing, just like single-legged uphill stuff. I think that that will hopefully help. I mean, I used to do a fair amount of it and then a little bit less probably since training for Tarawera early in the year, which I didn't think...

Speaker: I needed to do that. um So yeah, I'm going to start coming back to that a little bit. But yeah, I think I also spoke with Billy after that race, the World Cup um level is pretty extreme. And those a lot of those runners don't do UTMB races and some do Golden Trail, a lot of mountain running. But it's like this elite, super elite type of runners that just kind of do those kind of races and local races.

Speaker: um And yeah, super, super talented. And the level in those races is just insane. And this is like one week out of Chamonix. So none of the people pretty much were there did anything in UTMB.

Speaker: Yeah, crazy. It is cool how many different avenues there are in the sport now of like like that's the short and sharp and like top end of that sort of realm of trail running which feels in like insanely different to the ultra or even the 50K, 20K kind of distance half the time. um and And we're pretty far away from it but like they have the Seven Nations, the which is like a proper kind of like scoring system for those seven nations they have a parade for the seven nations they're all like with their national uniforms they have teams like full-on like team managers like i was staying in the same kind of accommodation i think as the scottish um or irish no not scottish sorry wales team

Speaker: And they had like the team meetings of like, you know, talking about the courses because the next day that was the 20K race. um Yeah. that Pretty much you you you can score points of that race as well. um I was supposed to do it, but then realizing that my drive is going to be like seven hours and it's going to be hot. So I didn't want to do the race and then do such a long drive.

Speaker: yeah But yeah, a lot of them, obviously, most people did both races. um And yeah, it's kind of its own league or like championships of races that they do around Europe. Yeah, it's a different world. yeah it's different world to It feels like different world once you're over there.

Speaker: yeah ah You're like, I wish Australia could do this, but the logistics of it would be insane. Yeah. It's not a 30-minute to one-hour flight away for almost every race, unfortunately unfortunately. But awesome. So then how quickly after that did you come home?

Speaker: Was it pretty much straight after? The next day, yeah. So my flight was booked um for the Monday and, yeah, drove back towards Munich, stayed one night not far from Munich and then, yeah, dropped the car, got on the flight and then, yeah, back to Perth, back to reality and back to work and training.

Speaker: Yeah, fun. So then what's that, what's that all looking like now? Like what's the next goal and what are you settling down into for a training block? I've got an entry to the um climaton, um but I'm still like on the fence about it. Really? um Yeah, it's been like a goal race for many years, but still like not that easy logistically flying to Kotakinabulu from first. Like it is easy, like, you know, one stopover, but it's kind of still like 11 hours is the 10 hours is like the shortest way of getting there.

Speaker: So I'm going to make that call about that race. It is four and a half weeks away now. so probably in the next kind of 10 days i'll make the call if i do do that trip or not but it's always been like a goal of mine but again running up 2 000 meters then descending 2 000 meters um not easy to train for in perth so yeah yeah fair yeah the logistics of that one are interesting yeah because even once you get there airports go Yeah, expectations will be pretty low and it will be more just like an adventure race, um which is not a bad thing at all. But, you know, I just spent like six weeks in Europe and um yeah, just got to be careful of how much time I spend away and how much money I'm spending on my own racing.

Speaker: yeah yeah it's like you've done a lot of adventure I was talking to Vanya Knops she's going over to do um the Kinabalu so we had a good chat about it just because it looks insane but yeah the logistics of it even once you arrive at the airport it's like a while away from the airport as well to get to where the race is and you can't train on the race except for very specific times where they give you passes to go train and it's a it's an interesting one um because it's it For a lot of people, I think it's that destination race in a way as opposed to like feeling like it's one you can target and actually go like super well in all the time um with the altitude. But yeah, fun times. Yeah, it would be pretty hard for her from Singapore as well.

Speaker: Yeah. But yeah, it's I think it's like two hours away from Kotakina Baloo, the town. um And then every time you're on the course, like, yeah, you have like that pass for like maybe a week that you can be on the course.

Speaker: If you want to be outside of that week on the course, like you need a guide with you. yeah um So yeah, that makes it a little bit harder. And yeah, it's kind of like probably like a once in a lifetime, not once in lifetime, but like kind of an event that you just do once for the adventure because you are climbing all the way to 4,000 meters. But then coming down,

Speaker: Um, yeah, it's not going to fun. I did. So I did something similar. i did the uphill at, um, Pike's Peak, which is a similar kind of uphill. Yep. And I remember getting to the top and there's no way I would have been able to run down. Like I, yeah, but the altitude hit me. It's like four, just over 4,000 meters. It's similar to Pike's Peak. So, um, yeah, I'm not sure I'll make the call about that race, but I'm a little bit scared at the same time.

Speaker: Yeah, the slow motion running at altitude. Awesome. Awesome. Well, welcome back. It's good to be home. um We're good to keep be keen to hear how this next block goes. And Jess, moving on to you, we obviously heard from you last week about OCC, but yeah, how's your last week settling back into home life been? Now you're in Perth, I suppose, so less settling, a bit more travel.

Speaker: Yeah, a bit more travel. um Yeah, I flew out of Sydney to Perth, so I got to head up to Hounslow and watch the marathon on the Saturday, um which was really cool. And i got to go out for a run on course. Yeah.

Speaker: which yeah, it ended up being like probably a bit longer than what i had planned to do that day. But I was kind of just like running and then like cheering for a bit and like, yeah, it was super chill, but it was such a, like the weather was perfect at Hounslow. They, yeah really had like the perfect weekend for it. So it was so nice to just be out and the Blue Mountains are pretty special. Um,

Speaker: But Perry, like Perry's look down is so brutal. And yeah, I like, I totally forgot like how hectic the second half of the marathon course is at Hanso. Like, um, it's just, yeah, like, um, Lockley's pylon is just like, it's so dry at the moment and like coming down, like coming back down there, it's so sketchy.

Speaker: um But yeah, like, um, it yeah, it was really fun to be out there and my body's been feeling really good. Like, yeah, given, um, OCC was like my longest race, I'm really happy with like how I pulled up, um, which I think is a testament to like the strength training and just like, yeah, being a lot more conditioned at this time of year than I was probably for like UTA, um,

Speaker: Yeah. So yeah. It's always fun. I love it when you like the race and a race going really well is one thing, but pulling up well after a race, I feel like is this whole other celebration of like, yes, go body. Like I did the right conditioning. Um, and that feel of like feeling like you can ride the momentum rather than like need that full on pause of, I am destroyed. Um, it's two different mentalities in that post-race period.

Speaker: um depending on where your body's at. So that's good, riding some momentum. And then now is it just locking back into some usual training? um Yeah, not quite yet. I'm having another kind of easy week this week, like no sessions. um And then I think I will get back into sessions next week um because my next race is like 11 weeks away. So, yeah, I think it's a bit early to kind of start ramping up just yet. um I've still got like heaps of time.

Speaker: Yeah, good. Yeah, I'll be in Perth for like the next – four weeks. So, um, yeah, I won't be able to get as much vert in as usual. I'll definitely head out to the Hills, um, on the weekends, but yeah, I think I'll probably just like have a bit of a speed, a mini speed block while I'm here.

Speaker: and then um get the vert in once I'm back in Canberra. That's good. I feel like that's a good order to do it in anyway, after such ah ah yeah like your longest race especially, like bringing it back down, changing the focus, giving your body that different stimulus, um especially one we know you respond really well to. um Yeah, and the next race is a bit shorter. So I think, yeah, getting a bit of speed back will be good.

Speaker: Amazing. Love that. Awesome. um I don't think I've actually properly been on since before I went overseas. except for one little cameo with very bad internet in Italy before Kima.

Speaker: um I think, yes, that's the only time I was on the whole time of my trip. So, yeah, I guess I'm back in Oz and very, very, very glad to be back in Oz. um I feel like I got out of...

Speaker: The trip, what I expected going in, given that my expectations were very low. um So, yeah, no high expectations, but also like some rolling of the dice, I suppose, in what I could and couldn't do um overall race-wise. Because, yeah, obviously I did the first race off the plane, didn't expect much and genuinely enjoyed that one. The altitude, like Vlad, I know you were talking about that 4000 level, but four days off a plane from Oz, 3200 felt like 5000 for that one. Just that slow motion movement where you're like, OK, I am feeling this. um

Speaker: And then, yeah, I suppose I got just as much conditioning I could in for chemo, but then chemo itself, blew my mind in a lot of ways. Like it was exactly what I expected in a lot of ways. And also just the speed that you have to travel just to finish that event in the terrain that you're in is, I'm going to say, like it has to be one of the hardest cutoffs I've ever experienced because normally- Like as an elite at the top, at normal in a lot of these races, like you can, if things are going wrong and you've got like things happening, you can sit down at aid station, have an hour's break and then keep going on your merry way. And you, we know we're near cutoffs. um

Speaker: But the whole way through Keemar, I think the furthest I was ahead of a cutoff was 45 minutes ahead of the first one. And then just got shorter from there. And i was just watching these people get cut off because a certain point about halfway through the race, they're like, the men and women's cutoffs get do get different. They'd be the same to start and then they get different. So I was watching these men get cut off that I'm like, you are moving fine. You're moving quickly. You're moving well.

Speaker: And you're still not making it in. um Like there' it wasn't as if there were people with problems. It was people that looked incredibly fit and were still moving well. And then obviously I myself was like, they're going, I don't know if I'm going to get cut off here too. And you watch just even the last finisher come across the line and you're like, you're an incredible, like, it's just that different demo.

Speaker: Like, it's not what you normally see as the last finisher. It's like someone running really well across the line that's actually moved incredibly quickly in the terrain. And obviously it's for safety reasons. Like it has to be that way.

Speaker: But it was a really cool experience in that I've never been in a trail race full on chasing cutoffs. Like I was like, I am like actually, I think I spent the longest I spent in an aid station the entire day would be 60 seconds. And I was still chasing cutoffs. Like it's not as if I ever stopped.

Speaker: I kept moving the entire time other than like a short five minute break when my body really gave out on me and I thought I was about to black out. But at the same time, it was like you stop and you're out in this race for anyone that's in there. There's just none of that leeway, um which is a cool thing to be a part of where you're like, there's no room for error here.

Speaker: um And to be fair, you're in terrain where there's already no room for error. So it's a really cool like experience of like you have to be fully there, fully in it, um in a way, to keep moving. And obviously, I stretch my body to its absolute limits just to get to the damn finish line. So it's probably, it's one of my proudest finishes in the way that I genuinely, like I called my brother with about 8, 10Ks to go just the downhill and went, no, I'm actually done. Like I don't think I can make the finish. And he kind of talked me down. um and went, no, you're going to try You've got this. And it was literally one of those ones. I called my brother again and he had the, he cut, I had him on the phone because I had no one there because he'd gone to London. I had him on the phone for the entire last 6K, I think, because the last 6K is kind of this flat on the road stuff.

Speaker: And are still with two K's to go, he he said, and he was sort of replaying this back to me, but with two K's to go, i was still going, I can't see the finish line yet. I don't know if I'm going to make it. I ah can't see the finish line. Where's the finish line?

Speaker: And I can just remember crossing and going, oh my God, I actually made it in within the time. Like, and I was just, like I had 20 minutes, I suppose, in the end. Um, but But only because thankfully it flattened out.

Speaker: But either way, that was an experience and a half of just going, I'm not stressed about racing here. I'm stressed about not being told that I can't continue. So new experience, um brutal experience and beautiful experience at the same time just because unless you've been on the terrain like Kima is, there's no way to describe it um other than brutal experience.

Speaker: and not running you're not running for much of that run at all. um other than Is that the first race that you did with a helmet? It's the first race I've done with a helmet, yes, yes. um It's also like, it's also and and also they changed the rules from the pre from the previous one with the one that Brodie did. um We had to wear the helmet for forty k of it.

Speaker: Like we picked up the helmet at 6K and dropped it off with 6Ks to go So they'd changed where we had to pick up and drop off our helmet um for the safety reasons, which i I don't disagree with at all. I'm glad I had a helmet on. I want a helmet on, on that terrain. You've literally got people above you on rocks that could be moving and stuff like that. Like I would, in under no circumstances would I ever choose not to wear a helmet if I was in that. Even on the course check, I'm wearing a helmet. There was no way I wasn't. um and every single other person that hikes that trail, they will have a helmet, a harness and be clipping in to this trail. Like my brother, I took him on a recon of the trail a week beforehand and like he was clipping in to every single chain um because you are holding onto a chain with drops like beside you where you're like, I can't fall. Like you if you fall down there, you are gone.

Speaker: So you yeah yeah there's no room for error on that front. But then also like there's there's a real possibility of rock fall a lot of the time. And also on some of the descents, you're like, well, I want the helmet in case I fall as well. Because if you fall, you really don't want to hit your head on this stuff. So it wasn't terrain...

Speaker: that I hadn't necessarily been in before except for the fact of how sustained it was. Like I'd maybe been in it for like a K or two in different runs I'd done where I'm like just going off on an explore. I've done the silly thing of going, oh, there's a Via Ferrata that looks like I can do it without any equipment and I'm going to go along that for a bit.

Speaker: But this was just sustained the whole time. And like the people that I was hiking with the week before, like I'm not kidding when I say my brother was going as fast as I could possibly get him going in the terrain. And he's fit. Like he he did the 30K with me the previous race. He's been running three hours every week. Like he's not unfit. And it took him 12 and a half hours to cover 20K of the course. And he was done.

Speaker: he was And he even when I called him, he was actually the best person to call because I'd gotten through all of the mountain passes by the time I felt really shocking. And I was the worst I've ever felt in a race. I was like, I actually can't keep moving. Like, I'm i'm done here.

Speaker: And I sat down and things got a bit better, but he just went, Simone, I don't think it's a human possibly what you've already done, like humanly possible. So like you've already done this incredible thing. It doesn't matter whether you finish or not. But also it was like that moment of going, oh yeah, like I'm suffering right now, but I'm doing something that not many people can actually do anyway. Especially when you're seeing these people being distraught at getting cut off and that sort of thing. And you're like, Just the fact of making it to the finish, there's so many people that get cut off every year.

Speaker: Like it just making it to the finish puts you at the top, like the front end, not the front end of the field, but like in the top portion of the field um for this one. so Yeah, I think we've all done we've all done some really crazy technical stuff. All of us at the the podcast have done some crazy trail stuff.

Speaker: But usually it's for training and it's like, you know, yeah, it's only for like, you know, maybe half an hour, an hour of scrambling. But that pressure are under a race, like i would yeah i wouldn't I wouldn't want to do it, to be honest. Yeah.

Speaker: I think that's the difference too of like when I was hiking at the week before and you're on the really sketchy stuff, you're like, well, I'm taking it so slow and so carefully. In my head, I'm like, I can't be in a race mindset on this stuff. Not myself at this point, at least, because I'm not used to this terrain. Like I'm in a do not fall, do not fall, do not fall mindset sort of thing where you're just really slowly making your way along the chain.

Speaker: And then I watch the front of the field and they're banging it. But also i did actually hate a couple of portions early on when you're in a group of people and that felt dangerous because From the first descent, like you're on chains descending. So you're like holding on There's still rock there're still with the possibility of falling a long way either side of you kind of thing.

Speaker: And there's other people on the exact same chain as you. And so these chains, they're not tight on the rock. They move about. So there was once in the first one where like there's a guy behind me who I'd beaten to the top, but then he was trying to go faster down the descent. And so because he yanked the chain, um I got yanked off my feet.

Speaker: And I'm like, well, that's not like now it feels like someone else is like dictating whether I fall or not at this point. Like I held on and I'm like that was okay because of where we were. But then I was a bit like I'm hating this right now because you've got people trying to go different speeds on a chain and in terrain where I'm like the warnings from the race director the day before clearly didn't get through to everyone where they were like just take it slow. You're not passing people.

Speaker: Like chill. um Because then again on the second like descent, I actually got real, real stroppy with a guy and might have yelled and sworn at him. um big Well, because i was, there was a gap, there was quite a big gap ahead of me when I got to the chain, to the next woman ahead of me. But then she had a long line of maybe 10 people ahead of her.

Speaker: And I was slowly catching her. So I wasn't going slow. i was slowly catching her. I was going just like efficiently. And at the point where I'd almost caught her, there was a guy that just came flying down behind me. And the same thing happened where he like yanked the chain such that I fell and I had to just hold onto the chain and then try and re-get my footing.

Speaker: And when he finally, like, because he was at the top end of the chain, I was at the bottom. And then he finally caught up and he went from like going real fast to just having to stand there and wait. And I kind of just stood there and went, you want to go?

Speaker: Where the fuck are you going? What do you want to do? You want to go? And he just looks and he's like, no, no, no, because there's like 12 people ahead of us in line. yeah And I'm like, where are you going, man? Like, what are you doing? Anyways, was a bit of fun. Why did they have and why did they have different cutoff for the male and the female? I've never heard of that before.

Speaker: I think previous years they didn't, um but typically a lot of, like they just have a lot more proportion of male finishes to female, I would assume. um But then also just to even it, a the opportunity to actually get a finish um in on the course because I think, like I was around a big group of women at the time that I finished. And when I say big group, it was maybe six or seven of us, but that's a decent group on this race. Yeah.

Speaker: where it was just to, yeah, give a bit more of that equal opportunity to actually get a finisher um time. Because, like, I finished outside the old time. I wouldn't have had a finish on the previous cutoff by, like, five minutes.

Speaker: um So, like, they yeah, think. So they increased the cutoff? So they the same the first cutoff is exactly the same. The second cutoff is exactly the same. It gets to a point when you're eight hours in um where the men's cutoff is eight hours, the women's is eight and a half. And then the only other cutoff is the finish line where the men's is 11, the women's is 11 and a half. Now, there was men coming in after 11. They're not going to stop them finishing.

Speaker: um So I'm pretty sure they would have been given the finisher. But particularly that eight hour and eight and a half hour, there's kind of that one cutoff between difference between men and women. Do I think they could probably just make all the cutoff eight and a half possibly? um Because I saw maybe four guys get cut off there um while I was there.

Speaker: But yeah, I think it's just that making it a bit more equal for trying to get because there's already almost I think maybe 23% of the field is women. um And then you still had a lower proportion of women finishing to men with the cutoff.

Speaker: um what's say the um Because it's every two years, right? What's the registration process like? How easy is it to get in? so there's you it's hard It's pretty hard to get in in the way that you have to prove you can do it. So you have to have a certain interest score and you have to have credentials in Skyrunning. Like you have to have shown that you've done similar terrain and races.

Speaker: Um, so I'm going to say like, for me, it wasn't that hard to get in because I pre-registered, had the ITRA score required and had the races required to actually show that I could just like, you essentially you have to deserve to be there as they say, or like prove that you're going to be safe out there.

Speaker: Um, cause it is a course like you, you don't want to go there if you don't know what you're in for. Um, you could, it's, it's genuinely dangerous most of the way. Like the entire course has mountain rescue every couple of, like some of the passes will have five or six mountain rescue at each pass kind of thing just trying to make sure everyone everyone stays safe um and it's not a thing you could do lightly so if you've got the credentials i'm going to say it's relatively easy um but it's hard just to get those credentials i'm going to say and then also there is only 300 spots or something or maybe 400. um so i wish you want to come back and do it

Speaker: 100% because i I showed that I can finish on a day when everything felt like it was going wrong. um And I was cramping for like 45 kilometers out of the 50. So i think the main thing that I got out of it was like I finished. I know the course even better now. And like i know I can go a lot faster on that course. And like I'm absolutely enjoy it rather than just suffer my way through it. um I think a lot of my running at this point is just suffering, trying to suffer my way through so I can get back to the point of enjoying. And this is definitely one I would love to go back and actually enjoy and run a bit. And I know I can run a lot faster um because I was just walking so much of it that I'm like, I should be able to run this, um but I couldn't. So definitely planning on going back in two years time would be the aim.

Speaker: For sure. But what's your plan now? I did Swiss Peaks, again, kind of just for fun. um Not that it was that fun, but it finished well. And I think I've i've now ticked off my mission of like finding out where my body's at, um which is what a lot of that trip was about, was just going dream race of Kima, tick that off, and then also learn as much as I can. um So for now, honestly, I need to like re-stabilise with some routine and some strength um Because with my POTS symptoms, like they're the main things I'm still struggling with in races. So like anytime the terrain changes from up to down or down to up, I get dizzy.

Speaker: Things go a bit blurry. It's not fun. Like it's genuinely not enjoyable to run right now. a lot of the time. So I guess for the most part, trying to make that enjoyable again um will be the main aim, but I'm in this phase of just going, I want strength and I want base.

Speaker: So will be doing a lot of easy running, a lot of gym, because that's the main thing that treats Ehlers-Danlos anyway. Um, and then realistically my next like thing I'm actually looking towards and aiming for isn't until national champs at Kunani mountain run next year, which gives me ages of now going, okay, massive base phase and then see where my body's actually at as to whether I can run faster. Cause currently threshold hurts, speed hurts, like not hurts. It's like, I feel horrible doing it, but I can jog easy and I can hike and they feel great.

Speaker: So I don't know when that's going to change, but the main aim is like doing enough to make that change, I suppose, and hoping it does at some point.

Speaker: um But yes, I have some projects in the meantime that I will be doing. I will actually be at Melbourne Marathon going for a nice run, jog along at Melbourne Marathon for the fun of it, 10 years after my previous road mara.

Speaker: But yeah, a lot of it is just base at this point for me. the and looking forward to just life being settled and uni and routine. It's amazing how much travel can make you like actually appreciate normality so much. Yes, exciting times. and And yeah, there's our catch up for all three of us as we move into what has been some news for the week. Now,

Speaker: A quick break in the show to share what we are loving about the new ASICS Metafuji Trail 2, the shoe built for runners chasing speed on the most demanding of terrains. If you're racing ultras or you're just loving moving fast when on the trails, this shoe is about to become your new go-to.

Speaker: You probably know the Metafuji Trail as Asics's pinnacle trail racing shoe. Well, version 2 comes with a big update, a completely redesigned trail specific carbon plate using a new X-shaped construction. The idea is simple, more propulsion on the climbs, more control and confidence on the descents.

Speaker: Now that plate sits between two layers of foam, Flight Foam Leap up top and Asics' lightest and bounciest foam yet paired with Flight Foam Blast Plus cushioning underneath. So the ride stays light, responsive where you want it, stable where you need it and keep you moving with oomph deep into any ultra. Paired with the tried and tested ASICS grip outsole with three and a half mil lugs gives you plenty of traction and a Solite sock liner equals stepping comfort that is unrivaled in this category, especially for those long days out.

Speaker: And this shoe hasn't just been tested by the elites, it's already been raced by them. Tom Evans and Ben Dieman wore an early prototype of this exact shoe to a stunning one-two finish at Trail Running's biggest mountain 100 mile event, UTMB.

Speaker: If you want to check it out, head to ASICS.com.au We do have a post-UTMB interview here um that I can put a link in the show notes to.

Speaker: like I think this discussion is something that's just going to keep going for years and years and we're going to see changes every year. But the quote that James has pulled from this one is is just from the Chamonix Mayor saying, we probably need to discuss the number of competitors and number of races. Do all the races have to take place every year? What about the duration of the event? Is a week a bit too long? um So that was from Mayor Laffin.

Speaker: I don't think that's anything necessarily new of a question, but I think every year possibly the the conversation evolves a little bit. But from being on the ground, Vlad, did you hear my – oh, no, you weren't on the ground in the end, were you?

Speaker: No, no, I was there. Yeah, we spoke a bit about it. Yeah, we spoke a bit about it on on the podcast two weeks ago that it was a bit too much. And yeah I can see how people are not happy with it. And I mean, personally, like I think they could have some different finish lines, like, you know, instead of finishing OCC and you in Chamonix, they can finish it in Courmayeur.

Speaker: and same with CCC and i think that would kind of solve the problem because people will stay people stay where the finish line is um that's people in UTMB not a bad idea actually yeah yeah if UTMB needs um to hire me for some consulting I'm open for it but uh yeah it was a bit too much and I was happy to be out of it and um Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens next year, but I don't think that that's sustainable. like It wasn't enjoyable as well like you know at the same time. like I would obviously go back there for the expo with being there with Biggs, but I wouldn't go there for the race or just to hang around for the week. And I think even some people that I was with that was just there for the week to enjoy the week probably didn't enjoy it as much.

Speaker: Well, yeah, that's why i didn't go. It looked like I knew it was going to tough. Yeah, you said that. that's right. I had the option of going. I was asked to go and I went, that's just going to be too much. But at the same time, there is still that, is it awesome seeing everyone?

Speaker: Following along to a degree, I didn't find myself actually following it at all this year. I was pretty checked out myself. um I looked up results and that was about it. um But at the same time, I actually think of this quote and of like this article, that piece on do all the races have to happen every year, That for me is the interesting part where I'm like, well, you can still have like this awesome coming together of the community every year for like a more focused like event in a way where it's not as spread out, not as long, not as chaotic. And I don't know. that

Speaker: don't know if anyone would even fly like let that fly or like think that that's a good idea in many ways. But yeah. For me, I'm like, well, even as a follower, as a spectator, like it feels like when you're following, you're like, okay, well, there's the results for the 50K, but at the same time you've got things still coming in from the PTL, the CCC is about to start, then CCC goes and you're like, well, UTMB is starting as CCC is finishing.

Speaker: And it's actually really hard to even stay checked in as a spectator to all of it where you're just like, I'm not about to, like you'd have to sit there and watch the live stream for four days straight to actually catch it all. um So I'm like, well, is it actually better to highlight one or two distances per year in a way and actually make it so the people in that get more of a focus as opposed to being spread really thin.

Speaker: I'm not sure, but that's that one in that thought does intrigue me of like, well, that would be easier to follow as a spectator. um if you're not yeah egg your attention is not spread so thin between all the events. But I don't know how that would look. but No, I totally agree. As well, like also the athletes, obviously some incredible performances, but I think like all the races, they're like overshadowed itself. And yeah, UTMB gets the most hype, but like i some incredible results in in ah OCC and CCC and they deserve like...

Speaker: to be, I guess, celebrated a bit more than what they do because they get overshadowed by UTMB. um But yeah, I think there will be a lot of talk and about this in the coming year. And always I think they will have to have some kind of answers by December because that's usually when they open registrations. um So I'm sure like now as they come down of the event and then next few weeks, we'll start hearing stuff about registration because they have to hype the registration.

Speaker: um yeah but maybe it'll be a bit different next time. Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts, Jess? Yeah, it's a shame because, like, I definitely left UTMB feeling, like, super inspired and, like, a whole new kind of love for the sport just because, like, I've never seen I've never been part of a sport that's been, like, so hyped up and, like, had so many fans.

Speaker: um But, yeah, I also see how it's, like, a strain on the community and, like, Just, yeah, little things like cafes kind of only doing takeaway because of, like, the number of people and then that means, like, there's more plastic being used and, yeah, there's just, like, a lot of factors that make you feel a little bit kind of icky about it. um So, yeah, it's a shame. Like, a yeah, there definitely needs to be a change um but –

Speaker: Yeah, I'm not too sure what that is um at this stage, but I definitely definitely want to go back in some capacity for sure. Yeah. Yeah, there's that push and pull in a way, that odd conundrum of like, I love this race and I love the people I get to do it with. But then there's always downsides to something getting too big or really, really big in a small mountain community. Yeah.

Speaker: I'm not sure what the answer is. I would actually think, and it wouldn't work, but in my head, I'm like, how cool would it be if you had like a weekend set aside where like, this is the 50K, this is OCC.

Speaker: And then like a month later or a week later or two weeks, I don't know, but all four races were kind of separated. um slightly and because it's like maybe the month of August but only on weekends. I don't know.

Speaker: It wouldn't, I don't think, work necessarily because of the commercialism of it and like the brand expos and all those sorts of things. But in my head I'm like how cool would that be to just have one race to highlight and focus on and hero at a time because each of these races is in their category one of the best races to follow in the year.

Speaker: But it's hard to follow all of don't know. It's logistically a nightmare. Either way, watch this space. Anyone else has really awesome thoughts that want to send them off to Vlad so he can continue his application for being on the board for UTMB, by all means, send them through because they're totally going to listen to us.

Speaker: um hey And then in other news, which feels like it's like ah a backdoor almost related, um but it's not related, um is that Solomon have just announced at partnership as the global partner with Ironman in the triathlon for the next five years, which is a pivot.

Speaker: And I say it's like a backdoor sort of related where it's like Ironman also owns UTMB. So yeah. I'm like, is is there's maybe a correlation, maybe not, but either way, Solomon and triathlon.

Speaker: Thoughts, Vlad? It's kind of like a little bit sad in the way that for me, like starting trail running 15 years ago, it was all about Salomon. Then other brands came in and obviously took some um some bits of the pie and it just feels like Salomon is not going back towards trail, but rather it's going towards road running. They definitely pushed towards road running like in the last two years and now even like pivoting even more away from outdoors, like in a mountain outdoor kind of stuff into triathlon.

Speaker: I don't know. I don't know. Like it feels like it's going to lose that trail feel. um You know, I have a lot of memories of like watching the Salomon kind of like one hour videos. It was different with Killian and Salomon's Quest and all that Killian's Quest and the Salomon stuff that they had people on. um you know kind of it's a shame they kind of going away from that um maybe there will be fun story lines in triathlon and and fun stuff around that but it's definitely not going to feel the same mountain adventure brand that they built for so many years um

Speaker: but Obviously, Salomon is under new ownership, like it's um how it has the Chinese and and probably they're thinking about where's the money for the next kind of growth, where do we got to grow from and triathlon is a good place. Like there's a lot of wealthy people that do triathlon, so it kind of makes sense yeah from from a business side of things. um And that's what it is in the of the day. so i was going to ask though, in Australia, like not looking at Europe, but in Australia, do you think Solomon still has the mountain feel anyway?

Speaker: Like the mountain athlete, ah trail running being the focus feel in Australia in the market currently? Just in Australia? Just in Australia. still It's still a bit more mountain focused, trail focused for sure, yeah.

Speaker: You don't think so? Because i guess just, well, for me in Australia, they have more of a presence, at least in Melbourne, in the nightclubs and in their sports style. Yeah, yeah. Like I guess that's where i was going.

Speaker: Yeah, sorry. I think that a lot of those brands did have a bit of a pivot towards that lifestyle vibe um that brought back some old brands like Fila and Deodora. Yeah, yeah. of like revived them a little bit. There's so many of them now, yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah they kind of yeah you do yeah you you're right you do see some what do they call the speed crosses that killian ran utmb 15 years ago people just swear them to the coffee shops now um i don't think it's a bad thing i think it's pretty cool like bringing some buyback um but i think just kind of trail side of things i think like salomon did okay in australia overall like They had a good team.

Speaker: um Obviously, they cut the team. They had a couple of good races, you know, and it kind of felt like a trail running brand or like an outdoor brand. um In Europe, it's a little bit different with the snow side of things, the skiing side of things.

Speaker: um But, yeah, it feels like this is a big pivot. I think even them going towards road running and, um you know, they did a big push towards Paris Marathon ride two years ago and um and then, know,

Speaker: probably cutting a lot of the US athletes, Australian athletes just feels like maybe they're just focusing on the elite like big picture, but maybe they were just cutting some of that to make space for road running and maybe now triathlon. um Because they would have to sign some triathletes now to make this sponsorship worthwhile.

Speaker: Yeah, they have three at least. Okay. Yeah. It is interesting. It is definitely. i don't Yeah. It's hard to say. like you know It's a shame because they they will lose a bit of that trail running vibe. But at the same time, it's hard to compete with Hoka and UTMB. Yeah. So, yeah, they have to look for different avenues.

Speaker: Yeah, for sure. Jess, any thoughts? Does it surprise you? Does it? No, it doesn't surprise me because they obviously had plans to kind of move out of trail, I think, especially in Australia. um Maybe they're anticipating Ironman coming back as the popular sport among the community.

Speaker: We'll see. Maybe their marketing team has some good foresight. Yeah, it's kindned it is kind of a watch this space. I'll be interested because obviously triathlon is huge in Australia. so Yeah. I will be actually be interested to see where it takes them in Australia.

Speaker: um It'll be intriguing. But yeah, definitely a pivot. That's for sure. So watch this space. Awesome. Well, we're actually going to stick with shoes for a second um before we get to any questions or anything. And ah Jess, I'll let you intro this actually as the ASICS athlete, but we have ah you guys are going to review the Metafuji Trail too. Tell us about it. Yeah, so um in August this year, ASICS finally released their newest trail super shoe, which has been a prototype for around a year. so

Speaker: ah Tom Evans and Ben Damon wore it in UTMB last year in 2025. That's where we sort of first saw the prototype um and it got a lot of people talking because they placed first and second.

Speaker: um And, yeah, it was it's kind of like the next iteration of um the metafu it is the next iteration of the Metafuji, which was kind of the like yeah, the first super shoe that Asics built on the trails. um And the first Metafuji was a great shoe um for running on very like runnable terrain. um It was super high stacked, like more high stacked than your road super shoe.

Speaker: And the carbon plate was quite aggressive and the foam was really stiff. So There were a few runners um that had issues with like rolling ankles really easily. um So this one um has definitely fixed a few of those issues. um So the foam is a little bit softer and more forgiving.

Speaker: ah The stack height is a bit lower. um while still having really good ah cushioning for like the ultra distances um and the carbon plate is forked so it kind of has that lateral flexibility if you're sort of going over rocks and things like that.

Speaker: um The other biggest change is that they've brought in the sort of drawstring system rather than your traditional lace, um which yeah, a lot of people really like, I think.

Speaker: It's a lot faster to kind of like adjust um mid-race. um But yeah, I think, yeah, like I think there' it's still definitely like a bit of a polarizing shoe from what I saw when I was um in the ASICS house. there's It's definitely and more popular than the first iteration. um i think maybe like 90% of the athletes wore it from OCC, CCC and UTMB.

Speaker: there was still a couple of athletes that opted for a more low profile shoe, especially for OCC. um Just because I think the shoe still takes a bit of getting used to. So I actually chose to race OCC in the Fuji Speed because that's what I'd trained in, in the weeks leading up. And um Yeah, I didn't get an opportunity to train a lot in the Metafuji 2.

Speaker: um But I think if I did, I would have definitely chosen it because my feet were so sore at the end of OCC um i just because I didn't have, like, the cushioning.

Speaker: um So I think definitely for, like, ultra distances, like anything above 50K, I would definitely be choosing a shoe like that um just because – having that extra cushioning kind of outweighs like maybe having a bit more stability on like techie terrain um from a low profile shoe. um Yeah. And so yeah what were your first what were your first thoughts when you got to first run in it? Oh, yeah. It's like a huge improvement from the first iteration. um

Speaker: Feels a lot more locked down. It feels like I feel a bit more confident on the techie terrain, but I'm still like I have that kind of springiness and like roll and like on runnable terrain, it feels super fast. Um, I, yeah, I think the, I had to go down half a size. That was one thing I noticed. Um, I think that's more coming from like the boot style.

Speaker: um And just like the drawstring lace system, like I just felt like I needed ah a bit of a snugger fit so that I could get that secure feeling around the ankle that I like.

Speaker: um But yeah, other than that, like I'm just going to train in it a bit more and get used to it and definitely use it as my next race shoe. Awesome. Vlad, have you had a chance to test it out? Yeah, actually really liked it. um I thought i thought it's um it's actually fairly stable for for that stack height. um I think it's a big step forward for Asics going into trail running. So I guess like maybe Salomon's stepping you a little bit out, but Asics is like going all in into trail running. Well, not all in, but going a bit deeper into trail running. And that's a shoe that's going to help them quite a lot. I feel like...

Speaker: it's you know the first kind of super shoes that kind of came into trail running were very unstable when now shoes are becoming a bit more stable and this one is fairly stable like you know running on rocky terrain it felt good it felt like it was sitting well on my foot you get a good bounce from from you know the stack height and the plate um so actually really enjoyed it and probably going to be like a shoe that i use quite often in in training um i feel like you know if they if they could drop the weight somehow by a bit more um you know this would be the best shoe out there um but it's definitely a big step forward i think for asics i like that kind of like low profile shoes before like

Speaker: for like everyday running um so like the speed and the ones that'll be closer to the ground because they were light with good grip and just like a basic good shoe where this feels like you get that super shoe vibe the bounciness um from from the plate as well. um But you're still pretty stable. So yeah, definitely a good shoe to move forward. And I think like the next one, if they can drop a bit of weight, um they will have the best super shoe out there on the market. I feel like, you know, compared to road running, trail running shoes are still super heavy.

Speaker: um But yeah, this... This is a shoe that, ah like obviously we got that sample to try, we got it for free. I would happily buy a pair because I really enjoyed running in them. and yeah kind of I'm not 100% sure what shoe I'll use for my next race, but this one is definitely up there. I think there's only two options really. um The On Super Shoes, which I think are a solid shoe, and then this, I think that, um yeah, I really enjoyed it. and I'll keep running in it and see how it goes in the next few months. But from the first free runs that I've done in it, I was actually really surprised. and um

Speaker: yeah thought that It's definitely a shoe that people will be happy to take on technical trails. And like Jess said, 50K plus would be a perfect shoe because you get that bounciness and your legs don't get smashed from the trails.

Speaker: But I would even use it for races up to two hours. I feel like it's quick enough. for shorter races as well. um And being stable enough, like I won't be too scared for like going a bit quicker in it.

Speaker: um So yeah, I think I'm just excited to see what happens next because I feel like when you are releasing when you are improving so much, like the next shoe could really be um a big hit and yeah I think right now it's probably one of the best super shoes out there like I can like added us kind of drop the ball a little bit Nike is far behind the game with super shoes I feel personally so yeah I feel like Asics is It's got a really good one and I think we'll see a lot of those shoes on people in the next kind of like six to nine months. I think we'll see a lot of them in UTA because that that'll be a perfect shoe for UTA. um And yeah, I think they did well with that shoe. I was pleasantly surprised for sure. Amazing.

Speaker: Awesome. Well, watch this space for, it's only just dropped, yeah, this last month. so um yeah, watch this space for where it goes and whose feet you see it on. It's always interesting to see. I do love the shoe world. It's so like...

Speaker: Different things suit different people. um But then also it's just intriguing to see where technology goes and how things like now, just the fact that there are a lot of the carbon plates, they're not like straight plates, they're like X shaped ones like this ASICS one or Y shaped ones in different people. Like people of kind of figuring out how to make carbon plate technology actually work on trails without just sending your ankle over and that sort of thing. so I love the shoe space. It's intriguing. The the deeper you dive, if it's one of those rabbit holes that the deeper you go down, the more you're like, yeah, you can probably overthink this, but it's pretty cool um for the shoe world.

Speaker: Awesome. Awesome. Well, um we don't have, we didn't actually put out for any questions. Sorry, guys. So I don't think we have any questions lined up, but I was going to just quickly check and if either of you have been asked any questions recently by your coaching clients that are interesting to touch on.

Speaker: um for trail running, be it nutrition, training, different terrain, anything that's popped up that might pop up a few times, how handle different things.

Speaker: One topic that I've been a bit on is lactate gels. So I was kind of wondering if you guys had a chance to try or hear anything about them. haven't tried them yet, but I'm intrigued. And I'm actually loving watching the um the like ah science around lactate come forward a bit more and like the can not the consensus, but the way that it's perceived and people view it like it is a fuel source. It's not this like evil thing that makes you feel horrible. Lactate itself, the hydrogen ions that can come with it when you produce it.

Speaker: ah But at the same time, like seeing now where it's like, yeah, it has to change people's perception of it where you're like, I would eat lactate, like I would take in lactate and it might help, like why and how and those sorts of things. So I'm intrigued to see how many companies pick up on this because that can sometimes feel like an indicator of how beneficial it actually is. um But I'm actually yet to try them. Have you? A little bit. I'm testing some for Bix, but still kind of on the fence. if there's enough of a market for it. um

Speaker: Because obviously they're a bit more expensive to make. um yeah So I'm still, I'm like testing it right now, but not 100% sure. Because i say a year ago, like literally over a year ago, we're testing gels with bicarb.

Speaker: um And that kind of felt like maybe there wasn't enough of a market for it. So I'm kind of wondering if gels will lactate, there's enough um of a market for it. Like, mind you that that gel will have to be at least like double the price of a normal gel. So, you know, our gels right now, 40 grams of carbs are $4.50. If we do bring out a lactate gel, like we'll probably have to be around at least $8, even probably like bit more than $8 to like make make it worthwhile of selling them.

Speaker: So I'm not sure if there's enough of a market for it. I think that obviously they did well at to to the Tour de France, but is it just for the elite, elite? ah Like will normal runners benefit from it? Like will normal runners use it enough?

Speaker: um Well, i I think more testing by myself. I need some samples to like let other people test as well. And then also see how, because there's a few brands that have them right now at like 10 euro gel, which is crazy, or like nine euro gel, which is $15 gel.

Speaker: It is crazy. But like how many do you need? Like also I think that that's, Maybe we're not getting much information from the cycling world, like how many are they actually using? Is that one or two per race? Is that one or two an hour? um Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: I think it it is always one of these things where when it's new, it's expensive, but the more companies that come out with it usually does then sometimes bring the price down depending on the price of the actual substrate and to make it.

Speaker: um But I guess for a bit of an explanation, it's essentially trying to unlock a third fuel pathway so that once you've In some ways, it's once you've saturated the glucose and the fructose pathway of actually taking in fuel, it's a different pathway that doesn't then have the same limiters.

Speaker: um he But from the science behind it, it's like also trying to ah help glycogen sparing at lower intensities and muscle efficiency at higher intensities through the different how we metabolize it because it takes less oxygen to metabolize and use the lactate as a fuel source than fat, um say, and If you've got lactate as a fuel source, will you use less of your glycogen? So therefore you, as I said, glycogen sparing, so you don't hit the wall as soon and those sorts of things.

Speaker: And yeah, I'm not, I haven't read the actual studies or anything of like how this actually works. Obviously they used it at the Tour de France. That's kind of where I heard from at first and it was like, okay, this is a thing now. but But yeah, will it actually be a thing that everyone should or could use to help that hasn't already optimized how much carbs they can take in anyway? That's my question where I'm like, as you said, is is this just an elite thing where you've already optimized how much you can get in through glucose and fructose. So you're actually trying to look for that next step. Whereas 95% of runners have haven't optimized that yet. So there's no point taking lactate until you have lactate. the interesting piece there is that glycogen sparing piece of like, is it helpful to take a couple early, like one per hour early? No idea um to then like not hit the wall and that sort of thing. But Jess, have you heard any of this or read into any of it? No, no, I didn't. Yeah, I don't know like any like much about it, but it's super interesting because I think

Speaker: Biocarb works really well. So like it'd be good to have something that you can have like during the race to, yeah, like top that up. Yeah. It's like I think they could work hand in hand in some ways for doing different things and helping buffer. But at the same time, Vlad, I'll be interested to see as you go through more of this testing, like I suppose those things of like A, is there a market for it that's big enough, that's a big enough portion of runners to actually, and cyclists, I suppose, to make it worthwhile And B, like how much does it help in some in different circumstances? Like is it actually going to help if you're in a mass if you're in an ultra and your intensity is not that high? Is it actually going to help more at the two-hour races where you're at a really high intensity so lactate seems like a source your body's already using? So, yeah.

Speaker: And also taste wise, I mean, like, don't forget, this does not taste. It's not going to taste nice. So I think like how many runners again are willing to go through and consume something that doesn't taste great for a benefit.

Speaker: And I think like if you do enough of it, you kind of maybe you train that you are feeling better after it um physically and mentally that you're kind of going to convince yourself, yeah, that's good.

Speaker: um But yeah, it's it'll be interesting to see how the product does in general and then um yeah i think for us in bigs it will probably be a few months of just is it worth it or not like yeah yeah you know obviously like like producing a new product requires like a lot of money in in development and and then bring it out into market like ah is there enough people that would actually buy it and pay that amount of money to have something that doesn't taste that great but could help them a little bit.

Speaker: um Yeah. For me it's like how proven is it? I think once something's got proof and once something's got like you if especially if you feel it yourself like that's a bit easier of a barrier to get through.

Speaker: um But then, and this is similar vein, but very different. Have you ever tried or looked into for Bix the menthol gels, like the cooling gels? Yeah, like a menthol flavor, so like mint flavor, you mean?

Speaker: Yeah, like I've had gels um and they said work surprisingly well where like there's menthol in them. So once you take them, they do taste a bit funny, but then there's that feeling in your mouth and your head of like your sinuses being cleared and like that, like really strong for some of them. um But it gives your brain that like a tricks your brain into feeling colder sort of thing, like that feeling of being not as hot, um which is a weird one. But I was like pleasantly surprised trying some of going, well, that actually feels like it works for a short period of time. But is that something you've ever looked into?

Speaker: We've spoken about mint flavor. um I don't know exactly is that for the placebo effect. I feel, again, like it's a flavor that would scare people away. Yeah. But yeah, again, like it comes down to like, you know, if you're a really big company and you have a thousand different selling points, like places where you can sell your product, it's a lot easier to sell if you're like a smaller company. Yeah, fair. So that's also something we have to be a little bit careful with. Like I think a good example is like our salty high carb powders, like

Speaker: a lot of our elite athletes use it a lot of people they've tried to use it quite often but it's not something that people willingly will try they would rather go for like a traditional flavor like a lemon or an original flavor compared to like a salty flavor so that's where it becomes a bit harder when um you are a smaller company and you don't have It's not going to be seen by millions of people on, like, let's say, Morton. They'll put a product out. It'll be seen by millions of people in hundreds of thousands of running shops and cycling shops all around the world where it's easier to pull a product. For us, we just have to be a little bit careful. And that's also, let's say, the bicarb gel. There's definitely some science behind it that it works and it could work, but I didn't feel like...

Speaker: it was enough to be able to like justify the investment for it and similar kind of vibes with that lacta gel. But nevertheless, we're to test it out a little bit, see what it's like. And also at the same time, i think not just the science, but like real world experience. And that's why I'm kind of like hoping to get a bit more in the next few months. yeah It's actually like, yeah, I mean, science and real life experience, like two different things and like what athletes actually using compared to like what scientists think is good or bad or works is different at times.

Speaker: So it will also be interesting to see some feedback in that kind of a sense, not just the science. feedback. yes definitely Yeah, definitely.

Speaker: Awesome. Watch this space and if anyone is out there trying lactate gels, check us a comment and let Vlad know how it went. yeah We can just start our own little research thing. um If you're willing to be a guinea pig out there, go do it. um I'm intrigued. I might go try some. um Awesome. Awesome. Well, that brings us to results for the week um as we finish up and internationally. We had Ian Best. I swear he was up he was there last week, but he's, again, um ah he had a lot of results last week. But this week, again, he was 18th, second in age group and a new PB at KMV Nantau.

Speaker: Where's that one? I need to actually look that up. But then raced again eight hours later at ah vk a VK de Manigod, And apparently was only four minutes slower than he was in the morning. So Ian Best is still out there doing Ian Best things um and absolutely killing it. Then we had Mikey Dimwentes, who is second at CACA by UTMB. I have no idea if I've pronounced that right.

Speaker: Kacha? Kaka? um In the 100k. That was really cool to see. Looked like he pulled off a really good race there in the 100km distance. And we also had Billy O'Mealy came 13th in the 50k at Ultra Trail Great Wall, which if there was much of that on the Great Wall would be brutal because that is not easy running at all.

Speaker: um Awesome. did you Did any of you guys follow along any of this? Mikey I was trying to follow a little bit as he was going because it was a popping up on my feed. um I was getting messages from the ASICS group about Mikey and it looks like he had a pretty tough day out. Like I think he definitely, like even though he didn't finish CCC, still ran 90K a day. like two weeks before so I think he was definitely like feeling that a bit um and I think he had a pretty rough fall like he had some really bad scratches on his shoulder um so yeah it looks like he went to the well a bit I think he had a bit to prove to himself after CCC so I'm glad it paid off for sure

Speaker: Yeah, nice. Very, very nice. Awesome. Well, Jess, did you want to bring us back domestically? You were at Hounslow. You got to see some of this firsthand. Talk us through what happened. Yeah, so I got to watch the marathon, um which was actually a super interesting race um on both the men's and women's side.

Speaker: ah So, yeah, on the men's side, um I think, yeah, there was like a young gun. i can't remember what his name was, but he came in first after the like first seventeen k loop um and Yeah, like Mike Carroll and the rest of the men were like a fair way back.

Speaker: um And also like the men's time on that first 17K loop was a little bit slower than what people were expecting. so yeah, it was interesting. I think ah maybe it was like a little bit humid out there.

Speaker: um But then they really picked it up in the second half um and I saw Mike coming back down um Lockley's pylon ah And he was looking super strong. i actually was wondering if he was going to break the course record, but I think he didn't quite break it. um But yeah, he did amazing, like just paced it super well.

Speaker: um And, Piotr had a good race too. I think he had just flown in from overseas on Thursday, so still a bit jet lagged. And I think he has a bigger goal race, which is King of the Hill, in a few weeks.

Speaker: um So he sort of said that it was practice for that, just like running on like lack of sleep. um Yeah. So Mike Carroll was first in four hours, 36. Piotr was second in four hours, 53. And then Blake Abbott was third in four hours, 54. So that was the men's podium. And then for the marathon in the women ah Julia Anderson put on an absolute show for everyone like she dominated from the start um yeah she looked super strong and like she's done this race for the last three years now so it's obviously one that she loves um and yeah having a chat to her after she really locked in for this race like she was on the Stairmaster for hours um And yeah, I think after coming second for the last two years, like she really wanted that win. So it's so like I was so happy to see her come away with that because it was so well deserved after yeah the effort that she put in. um

Speaker: And the time was incredible. Like she just looked so strong the entire race. um Yeah, I think. Yeah, she just wasn't stopping like wasn't really stopping at aid stations. like She just kept motoring on. um And yeah, to cut off like 15 minutes or so from last year is amazing. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, ah super strong. So I was so happy to see her come across. I was like, when someone's come second two years in a row and then you see them win, it's just I feel like everyone's got to be cheering for that. That's awesome.

Speaker: So good. Yeah. Yeah. um Yeah. And then the race for like second, third and fourth was super close. Yeah. Um, so after 17 K, Alice Shay, I don't know how to say her last name, sorry, but she was, um, in second and she had a pretty decent gap over, um, Sarah Levitt and Britt.

Speaker: Um, but then I think, uh, coming off Perry's look down, um, we saw some video footage of those three actually like running together, up over the top of Lockley's pylon. So it was super close. And then i was at the bottom of,

Speaker: Lockley's pylon when I saw um those three come through. so Alice at that point was actually in second again. So she'd sort of overtaken um and Britt was only a couple of minutes behind.

Speaker: And she was, as she went past, she was saying, I'm going to catch her on the uphill. And I was like, go girl. And then, yeah. And then, yep. She ended up overtaking again.

Speaker: um back up Perry's look down so yeah the women's podium was Julia Anderson in first place in five hours 13 Britt Haridan in second in five hours 40 and then Alice Shaysha in five hours 41 um And then Sarah Levitt, I think, had a bit of a struggle in the last sort of half of the race, um but like still finished in such a strong time um and came in fourth. So amazing race from those ladies. And I think it's just so cool to see the times at Hounsloek.

Speaker: just getting cut down and cut down each year. I think like, yeah, like it's such a brutal race and like we never would have thought we'd see times like this um coming out of the women's field. So it's really cool to see.

Speaker: Nice. Love that. Then the Yes. So in the 17K. yesterday in the seven seventeen k um That was the next day on the Sunday. So ah the women's field was probably a little bit light on, but it it probably ended up being a little bit closer than what I expected it to be. um So Bridget Lunn took out the win. I think no surprises there, like coming off her year. She's had such a strong year um with her win at UTA. And then her cross-country results has been have been amazing as well. um So she took out the win in one hour 50. And then Sophie Brown was second in one hour 54. So she was about three minutes um behind. And then Beatrice Ogilvie was third in 1 Hour 54 52.

Speaker: So fairly close between those three women. Yep. um And then in the men, the men's field was a lot more stacked. I think, yeah, we saw at the start um some footage of about like seven or eight men all running together, which was super exciting. um But we did see Peterson come out on top, um,

Speaker: and he won in a time of 1 hour 28. And then James Barnett was very close behind in 1 hour 29. um and then David Vernon was third in 1 29.51, about 30 seconds behind James.

Speaker: Love that close racing. It looks brutal, but also how fun is it to watch, especially when there's a pack early? um So good. as always. Awesome. Well, bringing it down to Vic, we had Surf Coast Century here, which is always a big one that goes off on the Vic calendar. In the 100K on the women's side, it was won by Maluka Bancroft in 10 hours 15, which is speedy um on this 100K course. Second was Sophie Caldwell in 10 hours 53 and third, Jade Bucklow in 10 hours 58. So nice and close there for second and third.

Speaker: On the men's side, it was all about Josh Goding at the front and he won in 8 hours 52. Second was Daniel Robson in 9 hours 34. And again, pretty close for third with James Predo coming in in 9 hours 41.

Speaker: ah In the 50K, that was won on the women's by Nicole Verant in 4 hours 39, followed by Greta Truscott in 4 hours 45, and then Martine Botha in 4 hours 57.

Speaker: On the men's side, it was won by Tiang Ming-Wyfe in 4.07. Second was Levi Howitt in 4.24. And third was Tobias Fletcher in 4.37. So i'm going to say Nicole winning the women's in 4.39 must have been pretty far up there, possibly fourth overall, which is pretty cool to see. um And just quickly, the teams on the male side was won by Team Surf surf Coats, Century. um Interesting coats. I can't remember what that's a brand for, but ah that was 7 hours 49. And the females team tramps like us in 9 hours 59.28. So well done getting that sub 10. And on the mixed team, the disappearing tarns in 9 hours and 2 minutes. But 7 hours 49 moving on that course for this one.

Speaker: ah Jess, you take us over to the WA. Yeah, so um over in WA we also had the Dwelling Up 100 mountain bike and trail run. um So the trail run that was on was the half marathon almighty Jarrah half.

Speaker: And in the women we had – Petra Dregion doing another race. um So she's just showing how well she pulls up from all the races and how much she loves racing. So she was first in 1 hour 36 and then Ashley Ritson was second in 1 hour 38 and Carolyn Fenton was third in 1 hour 53.

Speaker: And then in the men, we had John T. Cowder in first place in one hour 26, Leon Kukira in one hour and Michael Edgar in third in one hour twenty ninth very nice Very, very nice. Awesome. Taking us to Sydney Trail Series. They had their St Ives run on the weekend. They had a 24K on the women's side that was won by Montana Jonker in 2 hours 34 and on the men's side that was won by Ander Moult in 2 hours and 6 minutes.

Speaker: They also had a 10K won by Abby Murray in 104.13. And this was actually nice and close because in second on the women's was Abby Ferris in 105.05 and third, Michaela McDonald in 107.42. On the men's side in that 10K, Chad Gardner ah got the win by a long way for this one in 39.26.

Speaker: which is wildly faster than everyone else. So that is a win and a half there because the second place was Ben Davis in 57 minutes and third, William Derbyshire in 59. And then just they had the 7K won by Brooke Ferro in 42 minutes on the women's and Ben Hanley in 38 minutes on the men's. Awesome.

Speaker: Well, i think that sums up everything that's happened so far this week. But for what's coming up, we have the Run Upper Murray in Vic, Warrnambool Running Festival also in Vic, Pillager Ultra, which always looks awesome in New South Wales, Trail Run Australia, Port Stephens, and the Doovall Dam Buster, and the Parklands Trail Running Festival and Great North Walk Trail Running Festival all in New South Wales. So it's a big busy weekend up there. We have the Run, Trail and Ride in Tassie, the, oh, this is an interesting one, La Billa d'Air Peninsula Trail Run, if I've got that right, that's amazing, um in Tassie, and then the Griffith Sport 2E Trail Run in Queensland. So a busy weekend everywhere as usual for this time of the year because it is beautiful conditions for running, at least down in Melbourne right now.

Speaker: I'm actually enjoying being home and not running in 30 degrees and instead of being like 20, it's beautiful. um But either way, Jess, what have you got coming up this week? ah Just enjoying Perth life. I think I've brought a bit of warm Europe weather over. like It's going to reach 30 degrees, which I'm looking forward to.

Speaker: Oh, nice. Very, very nice. And Vlad, same for you, enjoying Perth life, being home? Yeah, enjoying back, but getting back into routine, training a bit. and Yeah, just awesome doing the things that I missed for the last six weeks. i think we're all in almost exactly the same boat there where it's just like life routine training. Oh, my gosh. Things get to settle down. So good. Amazing.

Speaker: Amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening. As usual, if anyone has any follow-up questions, any requests for guests or anything along those lines, just send them through. out inboxes are always open. Also, if you wanted us to join our Patreon to get all of these episodes early without any ads.

Speaker: Also, we've been putting out some bonus content there and you'll get all the interviews a whole week early um as well as any shows that we put up. ah That is going to be linked in the show notes to join us on Patreon there for $10 a month. um I will put out another thing saying that if you're joining Patreon, best to do on your computer and not on Apple iOS because you will be charged more on iOS for Patreon because of their platform fees. So if you do it on your computer, you'll still be able to access it on your phone. Just sign up on your computer when you do it.

Speaker: And that will then make it that $10 a month. And otherwise, thank you so much for listening. This has been episode 127 of the Peak Pursuits podcast, and we'll speak to you next week. See you guys. see you guys Before you go, thanks again to ASICS for supporting the show. If you're chasing speed on the trails, check out the Metafuji Trail 2, new carbon play, elite proven, built to race.

Speaker: Head to asics.com.au to find out more.