Transcript

Speaker: Hello and welcome to episode 130 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick and I am lucky enough to be joined this week by James Sieber. are we doing James?

Speaker: I'm doing well. I've made it. The last two weeks I've had to be a very late dial in for cooling and sick quite literally. So yeah, I'm happy that I've actually made it to ah the podcast. Yeah, it sounds like you were proper down and out for a little while there.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. We just had a ah flu that then got gastro after that and it was just the perfect timings for Monday was the worst day both day both weeks. so oh yeah But we're through, so it's all good. So good to be here.

Speaker: Not good, but yes, we finally got you back, so that's good. And it is just in time to be joined by someone who I'm sure is not actually feeling that great for this Monday, and that is the one and only Lara Hamilton. How we doing, Lara? um good um oh my gosh this is hilarious yeah no I'm really good I'm just um I guess like less than 48 hours off the race and then I did go and crew until 3 30 a.m m into the next day and um do like ouch another like three kilometers to find ah

Speaker: the team I was crewing in three kilometres back, which helps my mobility. um Like I think I'm a little more mobile because of that walk, but um I didn't really switch off until yesterday. so Ouch. um I hear you, but for context for everyone listening, that race that we are talking about that Lara has just tackled was the Ultra Trail Sud Piranes hundred and twenty k Which I will say, as soon as this dropped, Lara, my chat went a little bit crazy of like when and where and how and why did this happen. So maybe we might start there of how long was this in the plan to do? and Three weeks before.

Speaker: I was going to say, I swear it's probably going to be one of them ones, isn't it? that. um yeah i love um I love that. So then backstory, how did that come about?

Speaker: Well, there's like a tiny bit of backstory. I guess it was October last year here in Formo and i was going down to a town an hour and a half way called like Prads and I need an MRI because my ankle was really bad off of the world championships, um my post-tip, which has a lot to with the condition I have. Anyway, I saw these people in this town called Alette on the way down crossing the road like ultra runners.

Speaker: And the doctor was in the car with me. and I said, like, what's that? He's like, oh, that's that race where they race from the mountains down to the sea. And I said, that's so that's so cool. Like, I need to know what this is because I've been wanting to do this as like a project at some point anyway. Anyway, it just went to the back of my mind. and I guess in June I was asked like if I wanted to do a project by my ski mountaineering, uh, coaching team, which is like a fairly new addition to actually have a coach for for the sport. And, um, I said, yeah, I'd love to like traverse, um, the South Pyrenees down to the ocean.

Speaker: Anyway, again, it got put to the back of my mind. um ta partially torn my hamstring when I was home in August or like diagnosed it um but found that like running long didn't hurt it so i' just been like running a bunch of long runs and cycling a lot and then Yeah, I saw that this race was on and a bunch of mates were like encouraging me to sign up. It was a joke. It was like a joke like, yeah, you should just go and run this ultra. And then I was like, you know what? So so I have nothing to lose. um My longest run has been three hours and I've been injured.

Speaker: um i think I was running like seven hour weeks. Like I had some good weeks back in June and July and then it just tanked. Um, never tried any my nutrition before other than the scratch mix. So I was trying all the new flavors in the race. It was quite an experience.

Speaker: And then, yeah, so, sorry, I'm rambling. Cause I can't even think probably. Um, I signed up for the race and, uh, yeah, did the race. I love it. I love every single part of that because it just is you.

Speaker: It is very, it is very, but it's also that freedom of just going, you know what? You could build up for a long time and create all this pressure around this thing, but just going out and doing it for the first time for fun for this distance, I think is perfect. Because remind everyone, what was your longest race before this 120? In 2022, Broken Arrow Sky Race, which was like a 52K. Okay.

Speaker: Wow. Cool. Have you done in any other, like in ski mountaineering or in like other sports and stuff, what's the longest time of like an event you've done? Yeah, it's got to be like PDG. We didn't actually get to finish it due to an injured teammate, but we were out, we started at midnight and we were out there until like 8am, 8am the next morning. So like I'd had some experience and I was all at altitude just under, um,

Speaker: uh the Matterhorn and in the glacier area in the pitch black night at like a very yeah in the cold so yeah learning nutrition and managing gear like when you can't comprehend things it's actually so much easier to do in running so I was like drawing from that experience a bit like there's no hypothermia there's no huge rope that you have to navigate ice axe like nothing it's just you and your pack and the hallucinations yeah Love how casually you chucked that in there. We might get to them a little bit later because they feel like they're are going to play a big role in the ah race recap. um But, yeah, I think, like, it it's amazing what you can build experience-wise to draw upon for even though you're stepping into a new realm doing something like this. There's still so many times where you can draw from experience

Speaker: similar-ish things. And I love that you had the comparison of going, well, this is easy compared to that. So it's um it's good when you've got, have that sort of, I've already done something that's harder or more logistically challenging. um So you said you signed up three weeks before.

Speaker: Did you change, did you, like, how do you prepare yourself for this in three weeks? Because I feel like sometimes when something's not there and you're not signed up, it can be sort of this, oh, maybe I'll do it. But once you've actually signed up and you know you're doing it, did it change anything? Did you actually, like, freak out at any point or did you do anything to prepare or did you try and just keep the sort of let's just see what happens momentum going? um Some of it was pretty conventional and some of it was unconventional and,

Speaker: I guess I was like emailing and Instagram messaging and Facebook messaging, trying to get a bib. And it wasn't until we made a phone call and I was able to get a bib because it was all sold out. And then it was like real because I was like in my mind kind of making the decision to go.

Speaker: And was like, right, what do I like? i was like, I really like Santa Marjorie products. So I went on to their um store and I found that they had this like new gel called a reset gel, which had tart cherry juice in it. So I started to like make a plan and I know AI is controversial, but look, I really needed help. Like currently don't have a coach for anything right now. it's just me. So I've made a project in Claude. And I'm like throwing in all this all this nutrition. I was like, I love scratch mix. I've used that for my entire trail running career. So we're going to keep that. We're going to aim for the first time ever for 90 grams of carbs an hour.

Speaker: I managed to, I was so hungry in the race. I was eating all of that. It was fine. um I, yeah, I just ah did a mix of gels. Um, And drink mix and salt tabs and like oranges. I even took like my medication on the course. So that was all planned using ai And like I had no crew either because all my friends were crewing my other friends. um So I was like, right, I'm going to be doing this self-assisted. So I like Ziploc bagged everything and every Ziploc bag was a new aid station. um And they were all perfectly labeled with the exact nutrition I needed. And um there was one drop bag, but it was at 45 K and the race is 118 K more or less. um

Speaker: And so it's like not halfway through the race. It's one third, i would say. um so i was like, that's going to be like my main point. um So we'd organize like a medical kit in there, change of clothes in there, headlamps, anything you could ever want. And then it was kind of up to me to like have another bigger stop at the 85k point because I wouldn't have any crew. i actually ran into a friend there and it made it so much better. But yeah, it was very much me and AI.

Speaker: And just i just kept telling myself, I think on Strava, it was like, you've trained for 243 weeks straight. And so to mentally tell myself I was prepared, I Googled how many years that is. And it was like 4.8 years. And i said, okay,

Speaker: I guess I've trained for this for 4.8 years, just consistent endurance. So i think I'm ready. Fair call. Fair call. James, I know you've got some questions.

Speaker: Well, I think a i'm I'm loving the fact that this is not, ah you haven't really had a chance to overthink this. You've just gone and done it, but you're also showing that like, you don't have to have everything go perfectly to go and still get stuff like this done. So I am curious, like, did anything go wrong in the course of the race? um I got lost one time. I ran like maybe an extra kilometer in the night.

Speaker: um But a few people did that. It's just like so dark in like pretty dense forest and um it's easy to miss something if you're really not switched on. Um, not, nothing super major, I guess though. Like I wasn't, it's not that TMI cause it's like part of the game. I wasn't peeing enough. And then I started getting a bit worried about my kidneys. Um, cause I was drinking a lot, like, you know, you're going down towards the ocean. So you're losing altitude and it's getting a bit warmer. And I was sweating a lot cause it's, um,

Speaker: It's not like huge mountains, but it's just so, so up, down, up, down, and the most technical downhills I've ever done in my life in the dark. So, like, I'm drinking a lot because i'm so focused. um And I was able to fix that. I don't know how. I think I was taking, like, a bruleon, like the soup with salt in it, um really helped date each aid station.

Speaker: Um, but yeah, blisters that pretty normal. Like as soon as I started to feel a hotspot, the next aid station, I told myself, okay, I'm going to take an extra two minutes to like change my socks, um, put lubricant on my feet and tape everything up again. um and yeah, I use my poles the entire race, like, which is a bit unconventional, but it's like an extension of my legs and I have blood blisters all over my hands from, doing that but yeah it's like a secret weapon those poles um save you and grace in an ultra marathon what time did the race start 5 30 night so like for me the race was just and it you know it's coming into winter the sun didn't come up till freaking 8 it's like mostly a night race actually wow how did you go managing that evening start like what did you get up to during the day It was the busiest week of the year for my job, um of course.

Speaker: um Luckily, it's remote. So I was just like with my feet up doing that. um And it was a good distraction. But, yeah, I wasn't nervous until two days before the race. And I was like, well, there's no pressure. Like, why are you nervous? And I guess because, like, I invested money and time now and like really memorize the course i didn't have any crew so i was like this is up to you to execute this and like not miss a uh bag of nutrition because you're not sharp so um yeah sorry what was the question oh my god the actual like the the morning and afternoon of race day before you tow the start line what did what did you do you do in there yeah yeah yeah just like eating carb loading um my car broke down in the morning um it was funny

Speaker: Because I actually- various That sounds so much funny. is I was asked what my biggest fear was before the race. I said my car breaking down the day before. This is what I said. said my car breaking down. I said because you guys are all starting.

Speaker: My friends were doing the 100 miles and I'm starting the 120K an hour down the road at 5.30 PM and they're starting at 10 AM m here in the town.

Speaker: I said I have to get myself there and the car has to work. Well, I go to turn on the car and the diesel particle fielder blew up. It put on the safety lock, couldn't drive more than 50k an hour. So I drove straight to the mechanic and we're actually friends at this point because this car decides to be a nightmare for this whole year. And I said, you know, I have a race.

Speaker: this evening please please like fix it I'll pay you whatever and they were so kind and I went to my physio appointment um just like I rolled my ankle also three days before and it was swollen so I needed to see the physio so yeah they're fixing my car I'm fixing my ankle um and yeah then I just ate a bunch of food and and went to the race Sounds like the perfect morning to take even more pressure off at least in a way. You it's great actually because it's just more lessons about how like no matter what I'll still be there and I'll still execute. Like all of these things are pretty good for self-confidence because you're like you can bring another thing at me and I'll deal with it. It's just kind of fatiguing sometimes.

Speaker: yeah yeah yeah you've reached the point eventually and I can't remember since you said this at the start but you won the race Lara yes were you aware of yeah no but you won the race it's very impressive well done were you aware of the positioning like would at what point did that start to become a ah thought if it if it did at all Um, I only found out that I was in first place at the final aid station. So, kilometer 101.

Speaker: Um, and I guess I knew I was like somewhat up the front, um, from the beginning, but I was a bit stressed about that because there was no plan for that to happen. The plan was to finish the race and have a good time.

Speaker: um And so i guess it got to like 30 K and I could see the front woman and I kept on every climb. I just kept catching up to her and I was going, no, like, this is not what I want. So I would just like drastically slow down um because I was like, you cannot pass her. Like, don't pass her um because I don't want to leave the race. Like, no way. I have no idea what I'm doing. I even like a voice message one to like I have a mentor for this because I have all these questions about this distance. I said, Hey, I can see the front woman. Is this a problem? Like, I don't know what to do. Like, do I just like really slow down anyway? I don't know what happens, but at some point maybe at one of the bigger aid stations, they, they left before me cause I needed to take some more time, especially if you don't have crew, you just, you do have to use those aid stations. Um,

Speaker: And I guess the positioning was rearranged. I lost the front woman. And then it was another huge climb out of this aid station. And I caught everyone again. i was like, well, I have no idea like where anyone is, what it is. So I just ran my own race really. like yeah And then knowing that I was in first with 16K to that was so cool, but it was agonizing because in my mind, I was like, I'm going to be hunted. I'm going be chased. Like I really need to keep this lead because I then got fixated on trying to win this thing. Um, but it was, it was bad. The last 10 K like, uh, very painful. How are you feeling in that last section? Were you at that point of like, just trying to survive to the finish or you actually felt like you still had some go about you?

Speaker: No, it was survival because it it was flat, one really steep, short climb, and then this very steep descent down to um the finishing area. And my legs are like completely buckled under me. So the poles became like um another pair of legs. And... um Yeah, i I just kept telling myself you need to run and running is like quite a generous term for what I was trying to do. It was like this weird towel walk shuffle bent over thing. um And yeah, i was I was just saying like it can, there's been times in my life where I've been in more pain and this is like and a choice and it's such a cool thing. So I just kept repeating that to myself and it got me across the line.

Speaker: Yeah, nice. what What point, based on the training you've done, at what point did the survival begin? Like, were you sort of at halfway, you've already gone longer than you've ever gone before? So like, did that ever play into your mind? Or was that sort of a fine aspect of it? Yeah, I think one of the reasons I'm like a zombie today too is like I kind of don't understand what happened because at 85K I was like running and feeling great and I was waiting for the pain cave that Courtney DeWalter talks about to come and it didn't come until after the climb out of the last aid station. Then it really came but I was like, wow, I'm so lucky because I'm only going to get this for like two and a half, three hours or two hours maybe.

Speaker: Um, but before was like a big adventure. Um, I listened to like techno music. I had this like eight hours of techno music that I'd been putting together for a couple of weeks from 11 PM all the way till sunrise. And so I kind of just felt like I was in like a club and I said, you've like gone dancing when you were younger, like into the next day and you were like quite tired. So this is like the same thing, but you have snacks and you're not like drinking any alcohol.

Speaker: Um, yeah. And so like, I just kept telling myself all of these things, like my legs really hurt at one point. And I was like, this is not harder than me because I've been a bit injured, like doing a spin class and trying to get my heart rate up. um So yeah I don't know. It's, it's all mental, right? Like I just kept telling myself whether it's a lie. i don't really care. It's getting me through and,

Speaker: um being so excited for the next aid station because like maybe i'll see a friend that's crewing another friend um you just kind of don't know like in the region you meet people and you come across their path and make friends on the course and yeah like looking forward to like oranges and bruleon i was just addicted so yeah Nice.

Speaker: I love that. it's ah It's a nightclub but with snacks. I'm going to remember that one when I'm running through the night next time. Yeah, and the hallucinations like ah three or four. Yes, tell us.

Speaker: What was going on? The puppies and gnomes. So I don't know. They'd like gone and chopped a bunch of trees down to like clear the edge of the trail clearly before the race or something. And the tree stumps turned into puppies at one point. But I was aware, i was like, oh, clearly you're just and like tired. it you know, i pulled out my phone and I was like, oh, it is kind of that time, 3am-ish. And so I just would laugh because ah staying positive was such a big thing. um

Speaker: and I would actively say, ha ha ha, like I said out loud to myself in the forest. i mean, like no one's around me. Maybe the next man's like a bit back or whatever. um I just saw a puppy and I was like, that's so cool. And at one point I had like Berlin techno in my headphones, like they're doing that electro dance thing. And I was like imagining that. and seeing the gnomes as well. um It was just like, this is this what I paid for.

Speaker: but you Do you reckon the techno music was like adding to the hallucinations? Because in my mind, I'm like, I feel like that would cause me to hallucinate. Like running, I've already been running for hours. It's 3am, there's trees everywhere. Like I feel like the techno music would just add a layer to that.

Speaker: Totally probably did. and but it was very useful. Like music's always been a tool for me and that's exactly what it was like. Yeah. I waited until I was desperate to listen to music. I said, don't put it in now. It's is a reward. Like you have to get past your drop bag. And then I knew it was like biggest climb of the course. I'd pop the headphones in and I was like, you're going to treat this like a backed off VK.

Speaker: And I did that. And I was like, I know there's an aid station, um, like nine kilometers later and then I'm gonna like really fuel up so I was like every climb I just pushed and then I would restock and you would get a bit of like time to recover push so the music was a huge performance enhancer for me and then that just became a point where I was like okay like I'm done with this I just want to like hear the birds waking up in the morning and be present um But a very technical course too, like having music really helped me focus. There were many opportunities to just break yourself. Yeah, nice.

Speaker: It's very impressive. that I think what do you put down like to to get this to go well? like there There are so many factors in this, like the the evening start, the technicality, obviously your first time going anywhere like this distance, the fact that you had three weeks to prepare for it. What do you feel like made it be so successful for you?

Speaker: Um, well, another thing I kept telling myself and I think it's true is that I've kind of accidentally been training for this, like most of my sport career because, um, I've, I've had like a lot of external stresses in my life, um, that are just out of my control. Meaning I've had to like show up to training sometimes three sessions in that day and perform despite like the rest of my world blowing up or like so not sleeping until 3am, not getting like the optimal type of nutrition I need. Like, you know, I had like peanut butter 20 minutes before this run and my stomach hurts, but I still need to go and do it. um And so

Speaker: being someone who's like quite a perfectionist about getting the training done and diligent, but not a perfectionist necessarily about everything around that. Like, yes, I try and get enough sleep and enough nutrition, but like, i also have a full-time job and this and that, and life's not perfect. So it's actually learning to thrive in imperfection and problem solving and resilience. would say like, that's my top skillset.

Speaker: And all I had to do was just like draw on that And um I'm just fortunate that this point in my life, I'm pretty happy. i actually backed off like competitive circuit running and it's really paid off. I just needed to like calm down after the Olympics. I didn't give myself that opportunity. So i did it now, delayed. And I don't know, I wanted something new and something adventurous. And I really got that. well i got what I asked for. That's so good.

Speaker: The decision to back off the circuit racing, what what was feeling like that had to happen? What was going on? and I tore my hamstring tendon. Okay, that was the, yeah. Yeah, and I just was having so much pain and...

Speaker: So I guess like just getting pretty average results for what I'm used to. Like I knew I wasn't like performing to my potential and um started to lose a bit of motivation. So i was like, right, like this injury is a bit of a blessing in disguise because it's really slowed me down. Like with tendons you – You can't rest 100%, but you can't load 100%. So we were like finding out kind of like what I can and can't do and what I can manage. um So I just did what I could and tried to focus on like building more friendships in the town, community, learning language um better than I used to know it and all of that.

Speaker: So, yeah, um I guess it was just like being open-minded and trying something new. I think it's interesting, and Sim, you might have found yourself in this sort of position before as well, but sometimes an obstacle gets in your way, but you almost feel a bit content with it because you're like, i kind of needed that excuse to stop, but I wasn't going to give it to myself, but now I've been i've been handed it, so I'm going to enjoy this and appreciate it and get myself in the right place. Oh, that's me right now. Yeah.

Speaker: That is 1000% me right now and we'll get into the sort of fun little challenge I've chosen ah a little bit later um after we've chatted to Lara but i'm I feel you in my soul, woman. It's just like that whole reset in a way that you kind of and having chatted to you over the years, like you you kind of knew you needed but it's hard to take.

Speaker: Until it's like, well, no, now I kind of have to take it. And then it's like, okay, so there's that that mental block to taking this break or this slight change in direction has gone. And now it's like you can just embody the whole thing. And like you doing this is...

Speaker: So cool for embodying that and just go in and get that different experience that makes you fall in love with it again and not just fall in love with sort of the movement because as you said, like the movement's kind of the easy part. You found a part of trail running where you get to use your biggest skill set in life and bring the two together, which is a very cool experience. Um, and I guess now I wonder what are your sort of thoughts after it's very soon afterwards. So I kind of hate putting this on you straight after, but I guess it's that whole, does this make you pivot in any like other way for what you're aiming for for next year or for the future in what you want to do? Or is it still too soon to know? Yeah, I knew this like question would come up and I've had some messages being like, oh, like you should do this race and this race and and try this. It's so fine if it's too soon.

Speaker: can just say. No, no, it's it's all good. um Just who I am, like, because I'm still discovering like who I am as an athlete, which sounds silly as someone who went to the Olympics. But like, what is it that i really, really love?

Speaker: away from any, anything else. Like just me. I was like, I like doing everything. Like I'll do a VK. I think there's another VK on like November the 7th locally. So I'd like to try and do that as like my first thing back if I feel mentally and physically good. um So it was like that, but I also love,

Speaker: this now, and I especially love this because it felt really like a team sport. Like when I ran into someone I knew at an aid station, they would start helping me and they didn't, I don't know if they realized at the time how much of a mental, uh, like how much strength that gave me mentally just being like, Oh my gosh, like, thank you so much. Like putting the powder in my flask and like asking me what I need.

Speaker: Uh, it really makes a lot of difference. And that was like teamwork. Um, Um, because, you know, I did not spend that long in total aid stations at all in that race. Thanks to people helping me.

Speaker: Um, cause I could see, i was like scrambling, like pulling bags out of the back of my pack, trying to put them in the front and like looking at like which marker it was. And, uh, yes. So, uh, sorry to ramble, but I think. No, good rambling. love it.

Speaker: Yes, but there will be more in my future. I just don't know like what. I don't know if I'm ready for like something like 100 miles. um I mean, i don't think I've used my full potential because I didn't really train specifically for this.

Speaker: at all. I even tried the shoes like three weeks before, but I've been using Salomon's a lot. i was like, Oh, like, I think these will be good ones. Um, and they were, they were fine. Um, I'm just lucky as well. Um, but the community aspects really sold me on it.

Speaker: Yeah. The crew aspect and being a part of the crew after I'd done the race myself was like the biggest celebration. I love helping other people across the line. Like, is it, it's just fulfilling.

Speaker: It's just fulfilling seeing someone achieve something huge. Yeah. I'm with you. If I can't be out there running myself, I will want to be there by your side trying to make it happen for you because it's just you almost like get a similar feeling at the end um in a way. Sometimes I will say when my body is not in a good way, it's even better because you don't end up as destroyed afterwards. You can crew a lot more often than you can race.

Speaker: um But yes, that is exciting to see. I think probably just to, um well actually, I'm going to ask this in a different way because we did have ah a couple people ask questions or Jeff asked questions about sort of what made you sign up and I think we've covered a lot of that. um But my overarching question that covers some of what Jeff has asked is, are you coming back to Oz for our national champs? Any chance? That's in March, right?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, have to look at it because like it is coming time to plan my ski mountaineering season. So like I'm still doing that. yeah Yeah. Money is a big factor. Like coming back from Europe is a huge thing. um So yeah, have to see.

Speaker: But like ski mountaineering is like pretty important to me. But I would in an ideal world, I would love to do in the middle of my ski mountaineering season a trip back just to race this and say hi to everyone um but is it feasible not sure have to i do have to plan on my calendar at some point i've been a bit i've been in the moment not looking at the future too much fair fair you know jeff was asking whether we'd see you at the long trail but um i'm gonna say that that's probably the least likely if it's middle schemo season

Speaker: Yeah, it's snowing here. i don't i don't I don't think that's feasible. I mean, like my dream is hard rock. Like I've been fixated on that for years. I just like don't know when.

Speaker: yeah But I've done a lot of the course just over time in long runs when I was living out there. So we'll see. to That's exciting. It is. It definitely is. Oh, my goodness. What an adventure woman. So what does the next, like, do you have, did AI give you a plan for the recovery or is it just feel it out? Oh, no. No, like, sport's sport. Like, I've been around the block enough times, like,

Speaker: Sleeping a lot, just taking care of the feet, um eating a lot. And you know the biggest heart the biggest thing for me is going to be like mentally staying positive because when you go above and beyond what you're capable of, which i think I did because I ended up in the medical tent afterwards, because passed out.

Speaker: It took a minute for me to actually pass out because I was like lying on the ground, got back up and I was like, oh no. ah Yeah, yeah. I went beyond, I think, what I was meant to do.

Speaker: um So it's going to take some time to be sharp again mentally, i think. And also encouraging myself to celebrate because at the Olympics, I didn't, I just kind of moved on with my life because I didn't really know how to handle coming out of years of preparation. i was like, no, like these things don't happen at all often. um You know, it's not guaranteed and you actually have to celebrate your achievements in life. Like, don't just like go, okay, back to work, which I am today. It's Monday, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, like be thankful and grateful and celebrate. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And just ah for you, for this sort of an event being 120K, how does your AS play into that during the run? And now obviously after it's going to be always difficult with inflammation and all those sorts of things. But did it play into the actual during the event at all? And if so, how? Yeah, like I still have a lot of pain in my ankles. um I just strapped them. I expected it.

Speaker: um i took medication um when I could because, like, I guess I was like, oh, it's a new day so I can take my medication, which mentally so i told myself, okay, you're medicated. So, like – you've you've had, you have that safety net, but I'm so used to just living with pain that it played in my favor. Like I was like, this is nothing new. i just said, you just have to deal with this for like, i had in my head like 24 hours, just, just deal with it.

Speaker: um And I said, you've done that before. You've sat on airplanes, like in that much pain and you couldn't do anything about it. This is no different. And look, you're not in some metal steel bird in the sky. You're like in the forest. So like, this is pretty cool.

Speaker: And yeah, I just worked through it. Yeah. Good job. I love it. I love it. ah James, any other questions about the race? What Lara's got going on? It's crazy. It's awesome. No, like the only only one on my mind is that obviously we are only 48 hours or so removed, but how's the body feel?

Speaker: Um, yes, I was feeling like just so tired, but I, cause I kept moving a little bit, like just trying to walk and like do things around the house.

Speaker: Um, it's been better, but I recognized when I got up this morning that, um, You have to start again. Like I'm going to have to warm up again today. And like yeah I get trapped in the seat because I'm like so comfortable like sitting here working. I'm like, no, no like you're going to get up and you're going to like hobble to the coffee shop. That's like the mission of the day and come home.

Speaker: um and And like treating my recovery, this is actually cool because you just reminded me, Sim, you ah talked about like AI and recovery. Treating my recovery like my sport for a couple weeks because I'm not going to be running. I might do a couple of swims.

Speaker: um But yeah, like, okay, what's my recovery routine so I get back healthy because like there's a risk of getting sick now or injured now. I know it's higher. So I need to be on that. Yeah, nice. Very good.

Speaker: Got it covered. Definitely got it covered. We hope. We hope. Yes, yes. Well, as you said, like you've got years and years of experience in all these things and even though something like this is a brand new distance or sort of a new realm within the running, like the running itself and the recovery itself is nothing new.

Speaker: um And that's the really cool thing about having so many different avenues to sort of experience things and express ourselves in this sport is it's almost like you can turn a new leaf so many different times within the one sport, um which is very cool. So, yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting seeing you, like, venture into this space. Knowing that you're going to go to and fro is even better in my mind where it's just like we still get to see the Lara of the VKs and the Schemo and then every now and again we might just see you pump out a hundred and twenty k or beyond like this one. So,

Speaker: It's what I need at Vetsha. It's what I need like to just go out there for a long time and and be with myself. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Absolutely perfect. um James?

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Speaker: What's your adventuring been look like looking like recently um other than being a little bit sick and under the weather? Yes, a lot times spent in bed. I watched the entirety of Clarkson's Farm, all five seasons of it. Oh, nice! I love that show. That was epic. yeah like have Obviously, having grown up, I think it's this is the case in Australia as well, but having grown up with Top Gear, it ah Clarkson's always been a pretty key figure in my life as as as it felt like that, watching so much of it. But yeah, that was fun. That made a ah a not particularly comfortable situation a bit more comfortable. um But...

Speaker: Yeah, the last, i think it's maybe five weeks, four weeks as I've been on. So the the last four weeks have been a bit interesting in the sense that the pain I've been having for four months now down both my quads, which we were, ah initially we thought it was a duct tendinopathy and there is a little bit of that. um But my osteo had, of like given that it was bilateral, he was like, okay, probably gonna be nerve root compression the way that it's it's presenting.

Speaker: And so I got an MRI done. And I had a bilateral, so both side disc bulge at the L3-4 and then a left side bulge L4-5.

Speaker: And which is frustrating because in the past, like what, 10 years ago, i had back surgery to fix the two prolapsed discs, the 4-5 level and then the level below it. um And so I get a bit a bit precious about my back and that was quite yeah intimidating because the last time was debilitating with how much pain I was in um from from that before the surgery and that was for seven, eight months ah trying to get through that one. so I had cortisone injections maybe three weeks ago now on the left and the right one.

Speaker: Annoyingly, they don't let you do both at the same time because they're worried that your leg could go numb and they don't want both legs to go go numb. So I had to go back. Fortunately, the place, when i they only booked me in for one and that was on the Wednesday.

Speaker: and then they told me that it was going to be a month wait to get the other one. And I was just like, come on, please, please don't do that to me. And then the the ah guy doing them got me in on the Friday. so that was very kind of them. Um, cause there was, has made a significant difference. Like I couldn't walk.

Speaker: If I walked down a step, it felt like both my legs were going to buckle underneath me. And I had got to the point with running where I was compensating so much. I was told to keep running. Um, I wasn't just doing it cause I wanted to, do I didn't want to run. It was yeah, not particularly comfortable. And, but the, the week of the injections, the, I did two runs and I think I was maybe programmed 70, 70,

Speaker: 18 minutes or so and i got 40 minutes into both of them and i was just like nah this is this is getting ridiculous like my my my left hip was really getting sore from just my gait going to be completely different shiv drove past me and she was just like are you okay like you look terrible and was like thanks that's yeah really really comforting um but yeah it got to that point like you even even though you're told to keep going When I could feel how much I was compensating to do that, I was like, this this is just not good. i'm going to cause myself another another issue. so um But yeah, I've run, well, the sickness really has not helped, but I've run see five times since the second injection.

Speaker: I think, yeah, I think we must be two and a half weeks afterwards. And it's it's not perfect, but... It's a a mild annoyance, not a so kind of relatively significant pain now. So yeah so that's very nice. um It's all flat, all very easy, but just being able to move without too much pain is good.

Speaker: So the fact that you know that that's the problem, um like cortisone isn't a fix usually. It's a short term bandaid kind of situation. um So what is sort of, is this something that you can rehab and will get better with rehab?

Speaker: the The rehab is just focusing on the multifacus, which is like a little muscle in the lower back, which is kind of annoying because now I just have a really stiff, I've just basically got constant DOMS in my lower back and so many annoying little core exercises I have to do to strengthen that. like and it's it I've had all the strength testing done. every i'm I'm very strong.

Speaker: I've worked on all the little stabilizing muscles that you would normally work on, um especially after my leg. but like this is just just like this tiny little specific thing that you have to do like very controlled specific movements to work on so yeah strengthening up that um the way it was described me is that the discs do repair themselves like they can retreat um but it takes time and what when I had the surgeries lot like in the past they were for pro lapses and this is only a bowel so hopefully that that makes a difference I don't know much about discs but I have coached a lot of people that have had in the past disc bulges and have no issues now with enough strength training for that area so I'm hoping that's the case I really the if this if the cortisone once the cortisone kind of wears off if it comes back then the option is to do the surgery again

Speaker: But if I can make it work with rehab, I will avoid that at all costs, at least so I can save it to the future. And it and it hasn't, like, granted it gave me 10 years of relief, but it's come back.

Speaker: So i it's not like that's a perfect fix either. um Yeah. yeah Always a scary thing to mess around with the back. um oh Yeah, have and it way it's just so debilitating. where When your back goes, like, I can deal with everything else, but your back, it's yeah, it's pretty sore. so but ah it's It's interesting. like every Every type of injury, I feel like, has a different response to it. Bone, I was like super simple in my head. i was like, right, cool. like Find out why. Fix that.

Speaker: The protocol is pretty straightforward for it. Just do that and come back. Whereas this one is a lot more up in the air. And I kind of don't know what I'm going to get until I start running that morning. But there's still ah they's still a forward like an upward trend. It's just very fluctuating. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's the most annoying thing with nerve stuff because for my EDS, like my hypermobility is the worst in my back. um I just bend. And so a a lot of my problems come from compensation for my back just moving way too much when I run and when I do things. And i I'm like you trying to do all these tiny little core movements and core exercises that are like ridiculously boring and you have to but you have to concentrate so hard to moot use the right muscles because otherwise you're going to compensate. So i feel you on that. But it's that whole...

Speaker: It's that waking up every morning going, well, which version of myself am I going to get? am I going to get the one that I've like two nights ago, I pinched a nerve in like my upper back instead of my lower back. And I couldn't turn my head one way. And I'm like, okay, today we're not turning that way. And then today it's my right hip because I've clearly done something in the lower back.

Speaker: the lower backsset i add So like, Yeah, I think so anytime you've got those sort of injuries or niggles or problems that cause the changing symptoms, um those and Lara, I assume like AS would be very similar in this way where like you don't really know what's going to happen in each day of like the symptoms you're going to get on any given day based on.

Speaker: how you slept, inflammation levels. And yeah, James, I don't know if sleep affects sort of the positions you wake up in and the the symptoms you get, but yeah, it's um it's a bit more of a minefield when um you don't actually know what to expect for the day.

Speaker: But yeah, Lara, how do you deal with that one? Yeah, it's just like not clinging on to how I feel in the first thing in the morning too much. um So it's like understanding that things tend to warm up, especially if it's an inflammatory rheumatological arthritic type of condition, because you're going to be potentially a different athlete come lunchtime or the afternoon and just understanding that.

Speaker: um But yeah, spend like more time with like small minor injuries than I do healthy, which are AS related, but I always kind of find a way through the Like sometimes pathology says something, but you feel something different and you have to go with the athlete and not what the pathology says actually. um And things day by day and being like flexible to understand like, okay, maybe today needs to be on the bike and that's actually okay because few days on the bike doesn't derail years of training. yeah Yeah, definitely. Definitely. James, are you finding, can you, like in my head when you said like you had to stop at 40 minutes and like, is the impact a problem? Like can you elliptical and can you bike or because of the what's actually going on, do you get the same symptoms either way?

Speaker: No, the the more vertical oscillation, the worse it is. So the more compression that goes through the spine. um So yeah, putting a barbell on my back is a big no-no. Taking a step down the stairs, running, those are kind of like the worst things for it. um i To be honest, I haven't tried. i I think given that it's been, I had so long out from both stress fractures and then going into this year, i don't particularly enjoy cross training that much. And I'm not trying to hold onto every ounce of my fitness because there isn't a lot of it. ah But more so,

Speaker: I'm only going to do what I'm going to enjoy. And I have other things that I've put in that time. So like whether that's just taking my dog for a walk, like to me, i will take an hour, hour walk with Alfie over an hour on the bike every day of the week. I know obviously doesn't have the same impact on fitness, but it has a lot better impacts on mental health. Um, and work is really busy. And so if, and I work best first thing in the morning, so I still get up at the same time, she still gets up to do her training. I just go straight on the computer and I work until mid morning and then take Alfie for a walk. And,

Speaker: I just use the time differently and it's not um I obviously would love to be running more but it doesn't feel like I'm missing out on something because I'm just using that time elsewhere um so yeah no I think I've always struggled on the the bike I think it's just because my bike doesn't fit me quite properly but I tend to get some quite ironically quad pain on that from I think it's kind of stems from my hips um and the elliptical I always get numb feet which I know I know a lot of people do get get that And again, it just goes in that, like, I just don't care enough to put myself through that. I'm not an elite athlete. I'm not trying to train for anything.

Speaker: I'm not trying to like, if, if this was an acute injury that was going to take me out for three, four weeks, I would cross train 100% if i was training towards my goal. because that's going to help me maintain the best I can. But at this point it's, it's like I'm, I'm at the floor and I'll just happily stay there and work my way back up when it, when it comes time.

Speaker: Yeah, nice. Nice. I guess in my head, I guess I was more thinking like, you know how they don't want you to stop moving. But I guess if you can run a little bit now, then that's great. But if you couldn't run at all, some movement is better than no movement sort of thing. So it's like there's the other options when it's easy. but Yeah, if if there hadn't been a solution with where it was at a few weeks ago before the cortisones, I would have like, ah I was done with running. So I needed, i would have had to find something else. And I still like being out in nature. I still like moving moving my body. And so that's why i did go and start gravel riding lot last year. So I would have gone back to that.

Speaker: yeah but yeah like i ran we were camping with sj and her family for her birthday on the weekend and i ran an hour with sj yesterday and it honestly felt pretty fine like nice i was i hit i hit the hour mark and i immediately stopped paused my watch and said like i'm done you can keep because she doing 90 minutes and like i was cooked and we were we were running like five minute pace which historically would have been very comfortable for me and i was done like i was at my threshold um but it's uh so it's it's humbling but it was good like i was like ahsh i actually enjoyed this run um but she's been a while so i've said that yeah us runners just have to learn to love being humbled i swear yeah it happens far too often um but yes well fingers crossed that it's a somewhat of a smooth recovery and you can keep that the rehab does work um

Speaker: Which hopefully it's more, i I find more it's keeping the motivation going to do the rehab to the level you know you need to do to make it work. That is, becomes the problem. um I think for me, I tie it to like, I'm only allowed to watch my favorite show once I've done the rehab or something like that, or while doing it, depending on the rehab I got to do. So I try and have it stack um a little bit there. Yeah. Yeah, no, and that's, that's, especially with the last two weeks being sick, like the rehab has definitely not been on anywhere near the amount that it should have.

Speaker: And yeah you can feel it when I'm, when I'm going along, but I'm also like, if I'm feeling like this, when I run without the rehab, how much better could I feel with it? Um, so that's why I'm trying to keep reminding myself that like, this is, this is the thing that's going to get me back to where I want to be faster and hopefully make more importantly, hopefully not make this be an issue in the future. so yes, but rehab sucks. It's so boring. We all, but like we know we have to do it, but it's just so boring.

Speaker: I know, I know. i will say like in my weeks at the moment, I'm actually doing a lot of rehab, like more than I've done in a long time. And this goes back to almost what you were talking about, Lara, of having like a fun adventure that you're doing sort of just for yourself that actually brings back that, oh, I want to do all the little things again now.

Speaker: um yeah And so, yeah like I reckon last week I would have done at least an hour a day of rehab exercises. And that's been the case for like the last three weeks or so, um which is not like it that was old me. That was definitely me a few years ago. And it's funny reflecting back now and me going, oh, I didn't even realize at what point that sort of part of me like switched off a little bit, which I think part of the switching off was good where like I didn't need to be so intense about doing 30 minutes of yoga to start my day and then I have to do this rehab before I got can go out for a run and like it's a little bit too intense about it. um But having a bit of that back now, I'm like, oh, I love this. This is amazing. Like I've got that sort of feeling of that little spark back in a way of things being fun. um And that's because, Lara, you might laugh at this one, um but I have signed up for now. It's technically called King of the Hill. I am calling it human of the hill because for obvious reasons. yeah but yeah

Speaker: But um yes, I have signed up for a last one standing, which. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this this event, Lara, is a last one standing backyard ultra style event, but it's with hills.

Speaker: um So each loop is 4.2k but it's got 300 metres of vert up and down. Now that's not in one hill, that's in two hills. So you go up, down, up, down per loop and it's – Okay, I did last week, this is where it sort of ties into my training last week. I've been slowly building up to this. I haven't really wanted to tell many people because I'm like, well, I'm doing this for me, but also I'm doing this very much in the, I'm not sure if my body's ready yet. So I didn't want it to be another thing where I went, hey guys, I'm going to do this too early in advance and then it'd be taken away and it'd be like, well, actually, no, I'm not ready. Whereas now I'm a bit like, well, you know, anything can still happen between now and the event day. But i feel like I can like safely say that I feel ready-ish to actually try because last week, geez, what was my training? On Monday, i did, I went to Bright. And this is where, Lara, when you were saying think about things being a like a a group effort and a crew effort, I'm

Speaker: I'm stoked about the fact that A, this is one hour from Melbourne. So I have mum and dad coming to camp with me the whole time. I have, I've got seven, so six siblings. So I have siblings coming from here, left, right and centre. One of my brothers is coming to try and last 24 hours with me to begin with. So I've got company for 24 hours, hopefully. Um, but it's just like, I've got this group effort where not only like, obviously Tim's helping me, um,

Speaker: train, but my massage guy, Sam from Muscle Freedom, absolutely massive shout out to Sam from Muscle Freedom because I swear he was kind of my first coach because I got a massage every week still before I ever was with Tim.

Speaker: um And he was kind of the one that would tell me when to back it off and when I could push harder and that sort of thing. But Sam flew to Europe, through flew to Andorra for my first world champs all the way back in 2018 because it was kind of at that point in time, it was just this out of the blue, oh my gosh, I've made the world champs. And he went out of his way, went with the family, came to Andorra and massed just so I could have my massage guy there. Like,

Speaker: Awesome. And once again, he's now moved to Queensland, but he's flying down to crew me for the entire thing. So I have my massage guy that knows my body better than anyone crewing me in between every single thing. Now, last week... He was in Bright because family's in Bright. His parents live there. So he was in Bright. So I drove up to Bright to do a training effort and this was where Tim, I thought he was going to tell me to do two long days. But then a week before, Tim turns around and he goes, well, you can't expect to go three or four nights in a row until you've done one night of this stuff. So instead I did on Monday, I did two loops at like from 12 till 2 p.m. And then I went back at 7 p.m. to do 14 loops. So I did 7 p.m. until 9 a.m. the next day. Then I slept for about two and a half hours and got back out at 3 p.m. for another two loops. So all up I did 18 loops. in sort of Monday and Tuesday, which I think is about, calculated the loops I was doing had a little bit more than 300 meters vert. So I did 75 Ks with five and a half thousand up and down, think over those two days.

Speaker: And I will say my body was fine. Thank goodness. Like obviously having massage that often helps, but it was just this little moment of going, how cool is this? Not only because it feels like something I can train for, like going hard, going for an all-out race, just I can't do it right now. My body's not letting me and therefore my mind just goes, I'm not even going to train. Like I can't be bothered.

Speaker: It's not happening. And so as soon as it was like, well, this is now what I'm training for, all of a sudden, Running feels amazing again because it's just like I'll go for a run and I'm like, hey, my body needs six minute Ks today and that's fine. Like there's actually still training for the event I'm doing. It's not this like, well, this isn't going to help me get faster sort of feeling. So all of a sudden I'm back running 130K weeks and going, I actually feel good. But...

Speaker: Then also it's just like I've got my parents planning so much of my food and nutrition and everything. I've got Sam in the background trying to figure out what's going to help me most for my body getting through. And it's just like this whole group effort coming together already and it hasn't even started, um which really, really is like why I run in some ways where it's just like this. hot When it's a group effort, it just everything feels that little bit better.

Speaker: Um, and so like even in, on this overnight, Sam got up at 4am to come do, well, he was there until 10pm and then he got back up at 4am. I wasn't letting him stay all night. I'm like, you could need sleep. He's got two young kids. and But not only that, I had, um, Mila, one of the locals at Bright, she got up at 4am just to come keep me company. I had someone else come and keep me company from six to eight. And it was just a, this small two day little taste of what it's going to be like, where I was just like, damn, this is cool. And the fact that you get to share it with people is cool. Now, obviously, it still scares the bejeebus out of me um in a lot of ways, which is also exciting because I haven't done something that probably scares me this much in a long time. And it was funny chatting to Kel last week, actually, after we'd recorded the podcast. um In some of the aftermath of that, I got to chat to Kel and told her about it. And she's like, oh, I kind of haven't signed up for one of those because I'm kind of scared of what I could do and what I could do to myself. And I'm like, I'm right there with you because I know what I can do to myself and I know how much I can push through. And there's that there is that bit in the back of your mind to going, is this smart? But then there's the bigger part of me that goes, no, no, no. I live to push limits and I live to find them.

Speaker: And I live to actually like just explore that outer realm of the human experience in a way. And i haven't got to do that in a long time in like the shorter distance running or like the spit races where I'm just trying to feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall, trying to go against my physiology. Whereas this one, it's like, feel like I can work with my physiology. And as you said, Lara, like bring this wealth of life experience to the table where you're just like, well, this is never going to be as hard as what I've already done. So it's just that sort of, how do we make it work? Because I,

Speaker: Having done that um a little tester and recovering fine from it, I was like, well, my body's not going to be the problem, I don't think, at this pace and at this effort. I will say 300 metres in 4Ks actually is a lot more than I sort of thought or expected. Like having done it over and over, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I actually have to move. Like, This is a lot harder, like, cause when you look at the backyard ultras and it's like 6.7 Ks flat, I'm like, okay, you're jogging five minute Ks and that's only 30 something minutes, 33 minutes or something. Um, I'd be having to push pretty hard to go that fast on this. Um, but it was still that feeling of getting to the end and going, no, my body's still going. I actually think the sleep deprivation is what's going to be the killer. Um,

Speaker: after the first, the first night is going to take care of itself. I know how to do that, done that before. But yeah, my main worry is the sort of mental aspect of the sleep deprivation and how that's going to feel.

Speaker: um But yes, I'm so excited and scared and daunted. But yeah, I'm resonating so much with you, Lara, right now when it's just like, no, i just went and did this thing. And it's like that piece of freedom of just going, I'm just, just experimenting.

Speaker: in a way but you can just hold on to like there's a great quote which is like the best kind of change is on the other side of fear and I just kept repeating that to myself because doing things that you're afraid of reminds you of so many aspects of like your humanity and it's so cool to be on the other side and then even if you don't make it to the other side like you you inevitably have a lot of learnings yeah yeah Yeah, it was funny. I was talking to my psych um because I obviously have my psych for many, many years now and I went straight to him and went, hey, by the way, is this a bad idea? And I think he got even more excited about the sort of experiment of one of going, I don't know where your mind's going to go. Like I've been treating you for PTSD for years. I got no idea where your mind's going to go, but this will be interesting, won't it? and I'm like, sure, um if you say so. So I got his blessing but then it was funny because he was like, what are you worried about? And I'm like, well, honestly, one of my main worries is stopping too soon. Like what if I let the excuses get in the way and I actually stop and like what if I could have kept going but I stop? And he just looks straight at me and he's went, if there's one thing I'm not worried about, it's that, Simone, because you're going to faint and collapse and then you're going to have to stop. like

Speaker: And i was I just kind of went – you actually think that? And he went, yes. And then I went to see my sports doc and went, well, okay, well, here's what I want to do. Here's all this thing. And he's like, I'm not worried about how you are during, I'm worried about how you're going to be once you collapse. And I was like, okay. Well, you know, beckle like you could, you could approach it just like, I want to see how far I can go. Like then it's just all about you and your effort. Like what am I capable of? And just attached to that thought.

Speaker: Oh, a hundred percent. And I know that like this, that it's cool because these challenges, it's like, it is answering a very different question to a race. It is, it's not answering how fast can you go? It's answering how far can you go? How long can you keep going? And obviously it's only answering that within the realm of what this is. Like this isn't a really long FKT where you can take a two hour nap and those sorts of things or two hour sleep. And like, it's a different thing um And it does take some lessons and some sort of like –

Speaker: sort of practice in a way, which is where like I love the fact that I'm just you're going to be surrounded by other people because I will say doing this overnight by myself, getting to like 2 a.m. up at the top of Apex Lookout over Bright because I did it up and down Apex Lookout and I was doing the same climb, the steep climb up to Apex twice on every single loop that I was doing. So by the time I'd done it like 16 to 18 times and it was 2 a.m. and I'm looking down at the lights of everyone sleeping, I'm like this feels rather silly.

Speaker: Like this actually feels dumb right now because I'm exhausted. I don't really want to do this, but I know I need to. And I'm just looking at everyone else down there sleeping. um And so I think I'm looking forward to the fact that at the event I'll have other dumb people.

Speaker: around me where you're just like, see, I'm not the only one. It's fine. And I know how competitive I get well of going, well, if you can keep going, of course I can keep going. Like why would I not be able to if you can kind of thing?

Speaker: And so I'm loving that whole thing of like we you get other people will push you in a huge way in this sort of thing and just going, well, i'm I'm going to outlast as many damn people as I can. And of course for me, like I want to outlast everyone.

Speaker: Whether I can or not, considering Piotr's coming back and he's won it two times in a row and I think Blaine's coming back and they've gone 90 hours, I'm a bit like, oh, that's a long way. um um But at the same time, I'm a bit like, well, at least it is a long way.

Speaker: Because at least it's almost like you know you're going to get to a point where it is ridiculously hard and you've been going for so long. Because if someone else can go that far, it's almost like the question is how close to that can you get sort of thing. And it's like if the ceiling was that like someone had won this event every year in like 30 hours, I don't think it would be as enticing where you're just like, well, no, I know I'm going to be asked to go beyond and beyond and beyond what I actually want or think I can do in a way.

Speaker: And then just being able to answer that question of, can I do it yet? I guess in my mind, it's never an absolute. It's that cool thing of going, well, I couldn't do it this year, but can I do it another year? Maybe. I don't know. You have to try again.

Speaker: But yeah, as you can tell from my rambling, as now I'm the one rambling, I'm excited. hum It's going to be not i'm not, I'm not going to say it's going to be fun, although I will say the first 24 hours hopefully will be. um But I think it's just one of the most interesting things I've taken on in a long time now. And that excites me, definitely. But yes, James, have you coached anyone to one of these?

Speaker: Yeah, I was down at King of the Hill last year. I had two guys running and I've got a guy doing it this year again, one of the same guys. And it's like flat backyard ultras are one thing. it It's not, I think the the people that I've had do them, it's not so much the fitness thing, it's the logistics. It's how well can you deal with the sleep? How well do you manage all those sort of things? how And basically just how well can you look after your own mind? Like are you the sort of person that really thrives when you're put into that like challenge um king of the hill is it's a beast uh what piota did last year off like what he was doing ahead of ahead of it it's just it's a tough course the hills are steep and it's completely off trail like it's just straight up the the side of a hill yeah and so

Speaker: That throws in another element when you're really fatigued coming down, the likelihood of rolling an ankle is just super high. um Just one misstep and that ruins your entire day. And then that's what i happened to one of the guys I coached last year. um it And yeah, that accumulation of elevation and not so much the climbing, more the downhill. Descending, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, it's it's pretty brutal. But I will say, i actually think you will have a lot of fun no matter with the day because the event hub was really cool, especially once I'd say once they're probably through 12 to 15 hours and the majority of the field drop out, you kind of you can just see all the runners like they do one lap, but they talk to somebody and then one lap completely alone. And the event hub was always like really thriving and all the crews because we were waiting for the whole hour for them to come back in.

Speaker: we were either sleeping or chatting to different teams and it's a real like it's it's a fun environment because you never have to move like as as the crew you're just always there and you the runner comes in and you can see the like at night time watching the head torches go up and down the hill which is such a cool sight um yeah no i think you'll i think you'll thrive uh barring any random issue like unexpected thing which is always the case with any event but i think you'll have a really good time yeah Yeah, I'm hoping so. I did find it intriguing that like they don't allow poles and they don't allow headphones out on the loop. more

Speaker: I would be out. I know, I know, Lara. figured you would be. Well, I'm assuming because it specifically says no headphones out on the loop that like I'm allowed to put noise noise cancelling headphones in back at the base. I'm yet to actually ask that question. Yeah, I can't see any reason why why you couldn't.

Speaker: Yeah, but it specifically says no headphones on the loop. So I'm like, am I allowed music between the loops to drown out people while I'm trying to sleep? Hopefully. I'll figure all that stuff out. But, yeah, the no poles is great in a way because you're just like, well, this is all on me. It's hard. um But, yeah, the no headphones, Laura, I didn't realize that and I was starting to make playlists and then I read it and I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah.

Speaker: cool i really just have to be one with myself for this one for the whole time um but yes that's very the style of like the organizers there they want you to be stripped bare and really be like made vulnerable out there on that hill and i think and anything that would hide that whether it's polls whether it's music would really go against the ethos of that event they just want you to be like how much are you made of basically and go and find out Yeah, you get I will say like I love the premise of it. There is a good amount of it where I'm like this is far too blokey.

Speaker: um But – Yeah. And even even when it comes down to the name and all sorts of things, I'm just like, hey, guys, there's there's a few things I reckon you could do to get a bit more female participation because there's really not much.

Speaker: um But that's probably another topic. But as I look at it, it's one of those ones I'm like – like i I want to go try this event but I'm never, I'm not going to speak up for the sort of entirety of the ethos because there's so much of it where I'm like this, I can understand why a lot of women don't go um or wouldn't want to go. There's stuff at ultras too. It's like even just seeing it, was like, hey, I don't know if that was like thought about.

Speaker: Yeah. Oh, 100%. A lot of them at aid stations, I was like, I want to change my bra. was like, if I want to do this, I'm literally going to have to strip naked in front of everyone. And I didn't know I was coming in at position one into this aid station.

Speaker: And so everyone's looking at me and I just thought, oh, it's because I'm Australian. Um, that like just That's the thing. There's so many, there's so many aspects of, yeah, in in the altars and that's why there is a lot of like less women participation, but like even the, so they, they have this year got prize money for the genders where they're like there's 5,000 for the winner of each gender. But then the fact that there's a 20,000 prize bonus for the last person standing Which I'm like, well, okay, look at look at the statistics and the chances of that not being a guy.

Speaker: Like it it doesn't it doesn't add up, but then also you've called it king of the hill. So already expecting it to be a guy if you just go off the name of what you're doing. So it's kind of, I know when I'd pointed this out even to Tim, um coach, when he was like, oh, what's the price thing? And I'm like, well, here's the deal with it. he's like That's got to be one of, or Backyard Ultras have got to be one of the only running events in Australia where there's not equal opportunity for prize money between the genders. And I'm like, yeah, pretty much. Because even that simple change, I'm like, you put $15,000 up for each for females and males, you're going to have two females go a hell of a lot longer than they will currently.

Speaker: Like, the sexs and more people enter. I'm like, that's that's an easy win, guys. Like, I don't i don't understand why you wouldn't. um So, you can bet if I win this thing that I would be like, A, you're renaming it Queen of the Hill for the year and B, I'll have, like, you can you can get stuffed with the different prize monies for the last one standing. Like, just just make it.

Speaker: fair um but anyways that's that's a bit of my rant where I'm just like I'm not if I win I'm not I ain't winning no king of the hill just just for fun just for just to make it clear um but yeah it's it's always a with the private events and these sorts of things it's always ah a growth in progress I just wish it wasn't a growth in progress that pretty much always started with the hey what about women um aspect of it so Yeah, anyways, rant over.

Speaker: um I don't think we actually, um and any other questions from either of you two? Any other? if assuming it's you and Piotr at the end and you're just going, how far do you think you can go?

Speaker: That's the freaking exciting thing. Like in my head and in what I believe of myself, I can keep freaking going.

Speaker: Like I genuinely, like the sleep deprivation scares me. That is almost the only aspect that scares me because I know the effect that has on a human being.

Speaker: However, I am someone that has suffered with insomnia for two years straight and struggled to get two hours of sleep in at a time and I functioned. There go. That's your thing. You've got to tell yourself that one.

Speaker: and I've gone overnight many, many times on a run. Like I know one night's not a problem. I've just never gone two. But I've gone six months in a row never sleeping more than two hours at a time. like ah So i think that aspect as much as it scares me because I know what that did to my brain I'm a bit like, yeah, but i've got I've got everyone around me. I've got my family making the decisions for me. I've got people looking after me. So it's almost like I can just put that aside. But how far do I think I can go is I genuinely don't know and I'm excited to find out because I am planning to go for 90 hours and beyond. Like when I put my plans in place. They are 90 plus hours. Like I am telling my mum and dad are prepared to stay there till Wednesday. We start on the Saturday and I'm like, you're there till a Wednesday. Just fun fact. Like Sam isn't flying out till Wednesday.

Speaker: He's flying down for the event and he's not gone until the Wednesday. It's just like that I'm putting things in place even when I'm just like i' I'll refer to it as human of the hill because I'm like, hey, there might not be a king.

Speaker: Yeah. Sort of thing. I'm like, I need to keep that door open where I'm like, no, I need to be able to see myself as being capable of doing that. And I think that's what sometimes people miss with the namings of things and that sort of thing. Like automatically by calling something King of the Hill, you've got everyone expecting it to be a guy.

Speaker: And it's just like I can't have that in my own head. So I'm like, no, it's human of the hill. It's who's the human that works with this hill and keeps going for the longest, um not the guy that keeps going the longest sort of thing. So yeah, in answer to your question, I'm hoping I can just keep going. We'll find out. We'll find out for sure. Well, I won't say for sure because as you said, like a little thing can go wrong and that will be the saddest thing if it happens, but it's also part of everything. yeah And I will say that like, I won't even be that sad if something really happens really early in that way, just because of what this has done to me in the process. Like this has gotten me back running. This has gotten me back enjoying 130k a week of training and feeling good rather than like, I'm just fighting an uphill battle all sort of thing. So

Speaker: I don't really mind and I think that's a really good spot to be. yeah It's a free spot to be. So I'm excited. It's going to fun. only four weeks away and that's scary. but yeah i'm I'm really excited to watch and follow along. I'm glad it's not not me me doing it. Yeah. No, but i think i think you're – I think the other thing, when when I was talking to Piotr last year after he did this, he is just fascinated by where his limit is.

Speaker: And like that is his that is his driver. And I think kind and combined with his lifetime mileage, but specifically like his lifetime elevation, which you obviously also share an incredible amount of training history, you put that with a mindset of like, I don't – I think obviously the money was nice, but i don't he would have kept going to that same point regardless whether there 20 grand on the line or not because he just wanted to find out where the limit was. And obviously his limit was when the guy before him drops out. So I think that... He hasn't found it yet.

Speaker: No, he hasn't found it, which is that that's an another exciting storyline about this. But I think that... it's going to be yeah It's going to be fascinating to see how you both go and everyone else in the field. But yeah, I think you're both you both have a lot of the tick boxes that are needed to be able to go a long, yeah long multiple days. How cool is it that like, especially when it is down to the last two of you, Like I'm cheering for the other person as much as I'm cheering for myself because I'm like, well, I can't get stretch my limits without you also keeping going. So please keep going. Like it's that whole, it's that really cool aspect of just going, I don't actually get to test myself unless you're here to help me.

Speaker: And that's why I do love that the second person gets called the assist in a way or like that they've been there almost the entire way. yeah. And it's it's wild even watching how it ended last year with Blaine just not really understanding what he was meant to be doing and that's how it ended. Like he could keep going but his brain didn't quite get him around that last loop, um which I can see how that would happen. But, yeah, it's a very cool, very, very cool part um of what this whole thing is going to involve, that's for sure. Will you be there, James? Yes.

Speaker: not Not this year. We've got, um I'm at Melbourne Marathon next weekend, back in Melbourne two weeks after that. And then we go into like three three weddings in four weeks or something like that through November. So it just, yeah, it's pretty. And then then it finishes with Shiv's 30th as well. So we have have the have a few things coming up.

Speaker: Wild times. I'm actually running Melbourne, Mara, so ah make sure you say hi as I run past. Cool. I will Just for fun. I will not be out there pushing limits on this one. um Awesome. Well, we didn't have a huge amount of news for the week, um but we did have a few results to get through. Internationally, obviously, we've got Lara in front of us having one Ultra Trails for Pyrenees 120. And Ian Best was second at Trail des Gliers, 21 kilometre. I'm going to say that's in France based off the name.

Speaker: I think so. It sounds French. I didn't actually look where was. It sounds very French. um And then, James, you going to take us to bark and Mad? Yes, so Barking Mad in the 50K. Now, they do have categories of with dog and without dog. I don't know if they separated these, so I'm just going to say the fastest male and female in the fields. wouldn't say like with or without dog. So Jackson Lorette won in the men's at 5.39.29 and Tegan Carter won in the women's In the

Speaker: Justin Lockett won here in 1.47.45 from Jessica Hercott in second and first female in 1.48.06. So only 21 seconds separating. Jessica was was with dog. So I wonder if that's a, did you reckon that'd be a benefit to be with your dog for an hour? Like they'd they'd lose their pull after a while.

Speaker: Can I say for that long? I don't think so. For a 5K, like obviously we've seen, what did some guy run like 11 minutes or something for a 5K with a dog attached to him? Like 5, 10K? Have you ever run with a dog, Lara? Yeah, it's always a nightmare. Almost off the leash.

Speaker: If they're off the leash even, they'll just like cut in front of you and you'll almost break an ankle. I'm like, I reckon my fastest 1K ever would have been with Maya pulling me along, but she had about a 1K sprint in her and then it was a very slow jog. So, yeah, yeah I'm going to say an hour 40, unless you've got like some sport border collie Aussie mix or something that's just going to keep going, then I'm going to say for that long, it's a hindrance, not a help. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, so a very, very impressive run there. And then in the 10k, Seamus Lucan won in the men's in fifty four thirty nine from John Room fifty four forty So one second there. And then Sarah Lewis won for the women in 55-10, quite a commanding lead of 12 minutes to the next female who was also fourth overall. That brings us to the Beechworth beer run, also in Vicks, which i was at as well, which was always a fun event.

Speaker: Cool call track run from Yak to Beechworth. The brewery's very much behind it as well. So it's it's got a got a fun event vibe at the end of it. ah Kelly Angel, she took out the win there, the course record and the overall win in 2.41.17. Second female was Hannah McRae in 2.59. Her and Gerald were running together for Gerald's birthday. And then Jessica Ewert came third female. And in the men's, Cowbrooks was first in 2.43.58 from Thomas Stubberfield, 2.47.38. And then Gerald was third again at the same time as Hannah, 2.45. 259 actually he he waited to he for three seconds so that hannah go across first as if he went 259 43 um she was trying to get him to hurry up and come with him it's quite funny and then in the uh 15k joel docker took the win here in 65 26 from jonas gonzalez martin in 66 34 And in the women's, Jade Hazeldyne took the win there and the course record in 67-44. Also so came third overall.

Speaker: And second female was Claudine Owen in seventy nine forty five so for those that ah aren't familiar with Jade, she's one of our under-23 runners in Asia Pacific Trail Running Champs this year. So she's getting a bit of a hit bit of a hit out before this. and She'll also be at Melbourne Marathon 10K.

Speaker: Oh, cool. fun fun one for her yeah no she i appreciate and she absolutely loves the trails it's so cool like the whole whole whole time just smile trying to hold on to the guys um yeah love great very fun see so that and that is beachworth beer on Nice, nice. Well, I will take us to Macedon, which I accidentally crashed. I literally um got to Macedon like at 11 something yesterday because Matt had a um fire brigade thing on, i literally at the Mount Macedon fire brigade. Like, so that was the only reason I was there. And then I start running and I'm like, oh, there's markers out. oh, there's a race on. so I got to um cheer a few people around as they went. ah But in the 50K, that was won on the men's side by Tim Dooley in 4 hours 38 and on the women's side by Marin Lenz in 6 hours 13. For the was Daniel got the win and

Speaker: the women's winner was Laylee Mew in 7 hours 54. And then actually, this is interesting. They had the first 18 finishes were men, but then the next like 10 finishes or so who were women. It was a kind of like a weird mix at the front there. That's funny. um In the 30K, Matt Bailey got the win. This one was actually quite close. he Matt Bailey ran 2.32.14 ahead of Sav Mafra Freitas in 2.33.36. So they had a good battle at the front there for the top two. And on the women's, that was won by Christine Hopkins in 3 hours 28. And again, it was close because Elise Reardon was second in 3 hours 33.52.

Speaker: ah Then there was 21. That was one by Tom Dade. That's a name we haven't heard in a while, have we? James? Yeah, we called his name out for an event maybe a month ago, but you're you're right. we havenn't We haven't spoken about Tom a lot. im I messaged him after that and he's… he He is kind of like on his comeback training the running, but he's also training for this massive thing he's doing in Mornington Peninsula. It's like okay just a crazy amount of running, biking and swimming. And so he's he's very much focused on, yeah, he's just doing Tom things. yeah But yeah, he he is he is feeling good and and ah back into things now.

Speaker: Awesome. Yeah, I feel like it was every week or second week, we'd be calling him out for a while there. So yeah it was good to see you back on the top ah pedestal there, Tom, in the 21K. And that the 21K on the women's side was won by Martine Botha in two hours 11. And then on the 10K, that was won outright.

Speaker: by the one and only Kate Avery. um She was out there for a proper hit out. So she got the win in 50 minutes and 13 seconds. And then the first male was Lachlan Curry in 54 minutes, 34. So Kate had quite a run of it um at this one. She was definitely moving very quick.

Speaker: Then from other than Macedon, we had the Sydney Trail Marathon. Now, we are not entirely sure what has happened here. I'm only guessing that there's been a course change and they didn't actually run 42.2K purely because the men's winner and they're forty in the marathon or whatever distance they ended up running um was Jacob Fitzpatrick in one hour's 56.54.

Speaker: ah And the second place, Jacob Barrett, or two Jacobs, two hours, 21.01. Third, Jonathan Vuey in two hours, 31.02. And then in the women's for the marathon, we had Peri Wahib, probably haven't got that right. I apologize, Peri, in two hours, 27.10.

Speaker: ah Second was Kel Mendonica in two hours, 54. And third, Julianne Valderrama in three hours, 16.00. For the half marathon, this one looks like they might have run just the normal course. The women was 1.59.24 for Liberty b Blundell getting the win.

Speaker: And then second, Anna Cameron 2.04 and third, Nakaya Bly in 2.05. And on the men's side for the half marathon, we had Matthew Galletta win in an hour 38.30. Not far behind was Claudio Matoso in 1.39.41 and third place Parker Minns in 1.41.10. So some good close racing there. I feel like they always get close racing um at the Sydney trail marathons, half marathons. They've got a few of them that go around I swear, all with similar names. um Yeah, but it's very confusing.

Speaker: It is. It is. They seem to happen many times a year, but they always have a good race, so that's fine. They can do it as often as they like. And that's all of our results for this week. So congrats to everyone that did run. I'll just quickly go through what is coming up next week in terms of races because we've got a few. There's the Mount Bold Trail Run, which is doubling as the South Australian Trail Championships, which I love to see a state having championships at this point.

Speaker: um Human Hovel Ultra in New South Wales. Also the Great Nosh Foot Race in New South Wales. I swear Great Nosh might be like one of the oldest foot races in Australia or something. um I looked that up before. But then Sydney Trail Spring Series in St Ives in New South Wales.

Speaker: I haven't heard of this one. The Budge Bim Lava Blast in Vic. Where's that one, James? I did look at this up because I was like, what is this? I think it's his first year event. You keep talking and I'll come back with you where it is. Okay, cool, because that's one of the coolest names. I want to go to a lava blast. Then there's the Coombaba Trail Run in Queensland, the Turtle and the Lamb Trail Run in Queensland, and the Inogura Reservoir Southeast Queensland Trail Series. Man, people are coming up with some good names, but lava blast has got to win. What is it?

Speaker: It is the inaugural Bujbim Lava Blast event this weekend in the mesmerizing trails of the Bujbim National Park, which is in MacArthur.

Speaker: Where is MacArthur? I think it's, well, one of the sponsors is Bendigo Banks. Maybe it's like that that sort of region. Okay. It... has a you got half marathon 10k 3k i'm trying to find where it actually is racing yeah i was gonna say i'm gonna i'm looking this up now too because i'm intrigued butch bim mcarthur is 30 minutes from hamilton 40 minutes from port fairy an hour from warnerball an hour and a half from mount gambia interesting okay so nowhere near bendigo no nowhere near bendigo i was completely was just pointless part of the conversation that added there but it's uh yeah cool

Speaker: Cool area. very like not so A but bit of a track to get to, but it's... Yeah, wow. Out that way. And they are running on recently refurbished rolled stone tracks to provide a great running conditions.

Speaker: That actually sounds like one of those races that would be so cool once you're there. Like so good to experience. the The final stage of the half marathon brings runners back along the western rim of the volcanic crater with glimpses of Lake Surprise along the way. Does sound pretty cool.

Speaker: Hence why it's called the Lava Blast. Oh, yeah I'm going to have to look this one up. Obviously can't go because it's mo it's also about marathon weekend, but sounds like a very cool event. So good luck to everyone running that one. Awesome. Well, Lara, what have you got coming up?

Speaker: if Anything planned or just just work and recovery? um Well, there's a big mountain called Kanagoo, like an hour and a bit down the road. um And they have a VK event um in November.

Speaker: So if everything's going right, I would love to do that. um But it is kind of heading more into the winter. um And so mountaineering prep has already like kind of started in the gym and whatnot. um And I won't start the competition phase um until late January. And I'm not going to have as big of a season as I've had the past two years just because I have resolved with myself, that like if I wanted to try and go for another Olympic um qualifying round, i now is the time to have more fun and experiment a bit more because i'd want to lock in closer to the 2030 time.

Speaker: time um So, yeah, that's why I'm not super committed to anything. It's like annoying because I'm noncommittal, but also so curious and fun. It's a good call.

Speaker: It's a very good call. Like longevity takes actual planning to achieve. It's not something that just comes to everyone. um So I love hearing that.

Speaker: Have some fun with it. And will ah we'll have fun trying to track along and then being very surprised when something else pops up. i Yeah, I just, I don't know. I wanted zero pressure. I didn't want to good talk about it on social media. um And like, you know, I'm in literally just as much shock as you guys are. like that' wise here okay Love it. We love it. love it We certainly do. Awesome. James, you're coming down to Melbourne. I'll see you as I run past on the streets, but otherwise what have you got coming up? Yeah, just a normal week. Otherwise, yeah, working, coaching, and then yeah, down to Melbourne on Saturday, Arvo for Sunday, follow some of, one of the guys I coach coming coming down for it. So excited to see how how he goes.

Speaker: Nice. Awesome. Awesome. Well, yeah, similar for me. I'll be actually just a normal training week for me because Melbourne's kind of, I have to do a bunch of hills before and after. um in order to make it actual good training for me. So I'm doing it on tired legs. But um if anyone listening, if anyone of our listeners is going to be hazarding the roads um for the biggest event in Melbourne on that, then ah definitely shout out if you see us, say hi to me or James. And I don't know if any of the others will be, i don't know if Brodie will be about, but um Yeah, thank you everyone for listening to episode 130 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. Oh, and just quickly, I have started dropping, um there's a what the first video so far is up on Patreon with a few tips on packing mandatory kit and exactly how elites get a big mandatory kit into a belt.

Speaker: um which we do not recommend, but also it just answers the question of how the hell does it happen. um But, yeah, if you wanted to support us, you can go onto Patreon and search Peak Pursuits Podcast and we will get the episode early every week with no ads plus a bit of bonus content ah when we don't have complete mayhem behind the scenes. um which will more will be coming out in the coming weeks. So thank you for everyone that is on there.

Speaker: Thank you for listening. Thank you, Lara, for joining us. It's been a pleasure as always. And we'll speak to you next week. Thank you, guys. Thank you.