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Right Wing Dickery
29 Plays4 years ago
How drunk was M when Josh talked to them about symbols and the like used by right wingers to troll people on the left? Listen in and find out...
—
Josh is @monkeyfluids and M is @conspiracism on Twitter
You can also contact us at: podcastconspiracy@gmail.com
You can learn more about M’s academic work at: http://mrxdentith.com
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Transcript
Cheating accusations and pronunciation mishaps
00:00:00
Speaker
Cheating on me again, I see, and with David Darktourist loves a good tickle-king farrier. For shame, Em, for shame.
00:00:08
Speaker
Hold on just one minute. I see you're about to cheat on me with a guest appearance on invalid argument. You'll be talking about your favourite felices. Um, no, that's not- No, no, sorry, I just misspoke. Felices. I always get the plural of that wrong. No, it's a- Hang on. Do you think the singular of felices is felice? Yes.
00:00:32
Speaker
Felis P-H-A-L-L-U-S Yep, Felis.
Humorous misunderstandings of words
00:00:36
Speaker
A bad argument, which either suffers from a logical or material issue. That is, it either fails structurally, as an argument, or has a premise which most ordinary reason is should not accept upon further examination. Yes, I think you'll find it's Felisie that's the singular of Felisie's.
00:00:53
Speaker
Aren't we getting into that his debate between whether we use Greek or English endings for Lonewood? Well, no, no, because you see, a fallacy is the technical term for a bad argument. A phallus
00:01:08
Speaker
is another name for your penis are you sure i mean i am a doctor of philosophy don't you know yeah yes yes phallus means penis in in particular in classical terms an erect penis a shaft which has grown mighty engorged turgid so you shouldn't describe someone's argument as phallic then
00:01:30
Speaker
No, the term you would be looking for is fallacious.
Podcast introduction and personal tidbits
00:01:34
Speaker
So, hypothetically, you probably shouldn't call your next book, Felic Conspiracy Theories, A Close Look. I mean, I'm just asking for a friend. Well, unless you've got some particular genital-based conspiracy theories to cover. No.
00:01:51
Speaker
Okay, well I'm not going to have to, I'm going to have to end this call. I need to talk to my publisher, I mean, I need to talk to my friend's publisher. I'm beginning to realise they've all been beginning to ask for a whole lot of somewhat salacious images, permissions for a topless Alex Jones. Well, I'm glad this didn't turn out to be some kind of cunning linguistics gag.
00:02:30
Speaker
The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Addison and Dr. M. Dentist. Hello and welcome to the Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy. I am Josh Addison. They are Dr. M. Dentist. Was that water I just saw you drink? I am somewhat drunk, so I am drinking water now.
00:02:52
Speaker
Right, the truth comes out. Good, I say. So here we are, it's getting right and chilly here in Auckland, to the extent that I'm wearing a leather jacket, which will doubtless be creaking all the way through this episode and messing up the sound quality, and I could not give less of a shit. This week's episode is going to be all internet-y and Mimi, how are your memes, Ian? You up with your memes? I don't know, I mean they're
00:03:22
Speaker
Are they dank? They're kind of bilious? Bilious memes. I actually like the sound of that.
00:03:30
Speaker
So, before we get into that, yes, so, Em, you have already been in print, I guess, on the internet. Old David Ferrier had a chinwag with you about COVID and that pandemic film
Social media dynamics and engagement challenges
00:03:44
Speaker
and all that sort of stuff. Now, I have to say, this is not a slight on David Ferrier, but David Ferrier has 150,000 followers on Twitter.
00:04:00
Speaker
and about 10,000 followers on his internet broadcast slash pamphlet slash email newsletter. Guess how many people I got following me after David Farias
00:04:17
Speaker
internet pamphlets on conspiracy theories, given those particular numbers. I would guess about 5 billion. Yeah, thinking more like 60 people in total, which goes to indicate that you might have a large number of followers, but they're not necessarily the most active members of society. Right, you heard it here first. All of David Ferrier's followers stink. Now,
00:04:45
Speaker
Now, Jon, Jon, Jon and Josh, you just tell us how on earth have you got access to internet fame via the Invalid Argument podcast? Yeah, for once. I'm the one stepping out on you with some fancy other podcast. No, Invalid Argument, which being a
00:05:05
Speaker
I wouldn't say non-technical user, but semi-technical, quasi-technical is not a podcast that I was aware of given that it's largely concerned with Java development and lots of things that go well over my head in the technical sense.
00:05:21
Speaker
But they were doing an episode on technical writing, and in my day job, I'm a technical writer. So Mark, lovely fellow who runs the podcast, said, hey, you're a tech writer who I know, would you like to come and be on our podcast? And I said yes, and I did. And we recorded it last night, and it should be up any day now. That's invalid argument if you want to hear a bunch of people talking about Java development and technical writing.
00:05:47
Speaker
Now, I'm quite curious to know what the intersection between people who like us versus people who like talk about Java actually is. That's actually quite fascinating. Yeah, we'll see if there's any crossover. Who knows? But I made a point of plugging the podcast while I was on there. I said, hey, if you want to hear more of me, come listen to the podcast as Guide to the Conspiracy. So who knows? Let's see. I could be a viral marketer and not even know it. Well, you know, someone has to be.
00:06:16
Speaker
So I think that's our essentially humble bragging out of the way. That's where people liked us enough to ask us to do stuff with them. So we should probably get into the main topic of this week's episode, which is now
00:06:35
Speaker
The title of this episode that I've written down on our notes is Right-Wing Dickery. I'm hoping by the time this goes up, we'll have thought of something perhaps a little more erodite. But if not, we're going to talk about people more to the rightward end of the political spectrum and how they can be dicks on the internet. And frankly, what more can you say? Nothing. That's what.
00:07:05
Speaker
All right, let's move on to taking the piss out of writing people. Right, so we're going to be talking about a few things that we have discussed in the past and then some new things.
Memes and symbols in extremist communication
00:07:16
Speaker
We've sort of brought them all under this umbrella. Which I should point out is due to the fact that Josh knew the term that I kind of didn't know, which was the fact that Boogaloo has a meaning outside of people who have kind of watched a particular film from the 80s.
00:07:34
Speaker
Yes, we'll get to the bugaloo in a minute, but just as a bit of a sort of a recap, we're going to be talking about that weird phenomenon of, and it seems to be unique to the extreme right wing of the sort of political spectrum, of using sort of ironic, in-jokey, serious, but not serious, but serious, meme-laden, reference-full internet communication,
00:08:02
Speaker
that often is a cover for some really particularly nasty horrible things but presents itself as a silly jokey face that is never entirely certain on whether it's joking or whether it's not and so manages to act as a cover for everything.
00:08:18
Speaker
We're not going to talk about QAnon much, I don't think, because that's become its whole own thing. It's going to come up, but I think we'll leave that to one side because we've said plenty about QAnon. But I think the first and possibly best example of that, of course, is a thing we've talked about several times, which is the whole OK hand symbol thing.
00:08:36
Speaker
You probably remember all about this at one point. People have seen the websites and know that this is all sort of documented. It started off on, I think it was 4chan, wasn't it? Of people saying, hey, why don't we pretend that the usual okay hand symbol is actually a white power sign? We can say the three fingers that you stick up are like a W, and when you make the circle with your hand, we can say that's like the circle of a P, and so it's WP, white power.
00:09:05
Speaker
And then if we can convince everybody that it is, then we can all sit back and laugh at them and say, oh, you think what? OK, symbol is a white power symbol. Well, look, here's, you know, a million photos of every celebrity and left-wing politician in the world making that symbol. Ha, ha, ha. Don't you look stupid? Problem is, of course, then a whole bunch of people who very definitely were white supremacists started using it deliberately to show that they were in on this white supremacist in-joke.
00:09:34
Speaker
And before you know it, the OK symbol almost sort of a little bit kind of is now a symbol that white supremacists use to identify themselves as white supremacists. And it's kind of a little bit of white power symbol. Yeah. So this is a classic case of.
00:09:51
Speaker
Alright, let's make a joke against the libs by doing symbol X. By using symbol X to troll the libs. But of course the whole point is when you're trolling the libs, you are...
00:10:05
Speaker
kind of making a claim against liberal politics and then people who don't like the libs go oh that's a really really solid idea we'll also do it as well at which point the people who are trolling the libs are going no no that was meant to be a joke against the libs don't use it seriously and the people who are
00:10:26
Speaker
actually going no we want to actually make fun of the libs are going no we're going to use it seriously after all and then suddenly you find out that the joke you had against the libs isn't so much joking against the libs it's now actually literally a white supremacist symbol and that's the whole thing about the white supremacist symbol there's a whole bunch of people who are going the okay
00:10:49
Speaker
hand gesture and then realise for those of you who don't watch the podcast as a video they're going what on earth are they doing just pretend I'm doing an okay symbol to camera now you've got your little o you've got your three fingers up there the three fingers are your w the o is the rounded part of the p in white power because oh
00:11:18
Speaker
OK symbol means white power. Well, we all now know what happens when you do an OK symbol in front of camera. And there was also the other one. There was the variation which was sort of holding the tip of your index finger with the sort of thumb and index finger of the other hand. So you sort of had a stick and an O
00:11:39
Speaker
which again was meant to be sort of a P and then I don't know because that was the one supposedly. I'm actually trying to do that now. So we're using thumb and which. Thumb and index finger on one hand. So you got making an O in one hand and then you grab the index finger of your other hand with the fingers of your first hand.
00:12:01
Speaker
the first set. If you look up at the screen, I am actually looking out to show you that. I must now ALT tab because I'm actually not. Oh, I see. Show me again, Josh. Show me how you're doing. That one there. All right. Now, you also have to make noise because the whole thing about this is when we're recording, we can't use a gallery view. We can only use a visual view. So only when you make noise can I see you being a white supremacist. Oh, I see. So I have to actually be talking and just talking at the same time.
00:12:28
Speaker
Wonders of modern technology. Anyway, the point is kind of disturbing. Why are you doing it? Because that was another one that was supposedly this coded reference. And this one was less about making fun of people and more about secret symbols. But that was the one you may recall some time ago, Steve Miller, a fellow in Trump's organization. I couldn't remember what he does. A person who looks like an absolute white supremacist.
00:12:56
Speaker
He really does. There was a shot where he seemed to be doing that, but that one did seem to be a bit of a beat up. It didn't really just seem he was buttoning his shirt jacket and that one photograph just happened to catch his hands and that one's a slightly suspicious looking symbol. But then there was the other time
00:13:13
Speaker
Do you remember there was a time when someone, there was a Secret Service guy, I assume in Trump's detail, and he was holding his arm very stiffly and for some reason the internet decided that he actually, it was a fake arm and he was actually carrying some sort of big gun under his coat. I do recall the fake arm, yes.
00:13:31
Speaker
which seemed very, very silly. But the thing that struck me, which people didn't really seem to point about, is that as he was holding his hand very awkwardly, he did have one finger out and did appear to be clasping that finger with the thumb and forefingers of the hand, in quite a weird, slightly unnatural looking position. And this was on video, so he clearly was holding that gesture for quite some time. Never really came up. But then, of course, there was Zena Bash. Ah, yes, the... The excellently named Zena Bash.
00:14:01
Speaker
previously employed assistant to now Supreme Court Justice, Brent Cavanaugh. Now, of course, we've talked about Brent Cavanaugh as a political candidate with respect to the Supreme Court in this podcast in the past. And the, let's just say,
00:14:23
Speaker
ever so slightly interesting way in which he became a Supreme Court Justice. But Xenobash was a former assistant to Brent Kavanagh, who during the hearings to assess whether Brent Kavanagh should be the kind of person who should become a Supreme Court Justice, was caught on camera not once but twice using the okay symbol
00:14:49
Speaker
on camera whilst the hearings were going on. And wasn't it um didn't you see she she got like on a message on her phone or something didn't she? I think you could see there was some sort of prompt like someone had obviously said hey hey do the symbol well you I can see you on camera do the symbol now it'll be hilarious or something I think you could see she was obviously thought it was a funny joke and was responding to someone egging her on.
00:15:13
Speaker
And again, yeah, but that was blatant. That was very definitely that symbol. She sort of did it kind of against her arm in full view of the camera. And so it started to be, okay, you're doing it to piss people off.
00:15:27
Speaker
and it's obviously being done in a jokey way, but it's very clearly symbolizing something which is not at all a joke, which perhaps brings us to some of the other ones. Oh, Pepe the Frog, the bloody, it's a silly dumbass looking frog cartoon. So it's all very silly and jokey, but it's being used as the symbol by a bunch of people with very unsavory beliefs indeed.
Pepe the Frog and unexpected associations
00:15:51
Speaker
Well, yeah, and poor old Pepe the Frog, because Pepe the Frog,
00:15:56
Speaker
basically didn't start out as a white supremacist symbol, but unfortunately got co-opted by people on 8chan to become a white supremacist symbol that people who quite like Pepe the Frog are going
00:16:12
Speaker
This is just a wee bit awkward. We kind of quite like our crudely drawn frog mastermind. And yet now apparently it's a white supremacist symbol. And it's original artist. I remember the original artist did complain, although I wasn't clear. Did he complain?
00:16:34
Speaker
sort of early on or did he only start to get annoyed about it when people were sort of making money off of his symbol by printing it on t-shirts and all that sort of stuff? So basically he complained early on and then complained particularly when people were making money off of a what was meant to be a quite innocuous frog image.
00:16:57
Speaker
Hm. And then, okay, now, I may be misremembering this. And thing is you're not, but let's continue. The whole Pizzagate thing, I have recollections of the thing that originally set Pizzagate off was people just kind of shooting the shit on 4chan or 8chan one of them.
00:17:18
Speaker
It turned into something really serious, but I'm pretty sure it just started off with people after the DNC email hack, these leaked emails with people talking about going for pizza and wanting CP, meaning cheese pizza, although CP, I understand, is used to stand for child pornography on the likes of
00:17:37
Speaker
4chan and those savory places. So, hey, what if when they say CP, obviously in the context of ordering pizza, they actually mean child pornography and the whole email is a coded reference to child's sex slave business being run out of the basement of a pizza place that doesn't have a basement.
Pizzagate and the rise of meme-fueled conspiracies
00:17:59
Speaker
Did it actually start as silly as that?
00:18:01
Speaker
I mean, yes and no. So, I mean, there were people from the beginning who went, oh, there's something weird about this whole Pizzagate thing we need to investigate. And other people were going, ah, wouldn't it be hilarious? And unfortunately, it turns out that both kind of co-intended at the same time to lead into the Pizzagate conspiracy theory. So, yes, it's true. Some people did start out with,
00:18:29
Speaker
Isn't it hilarious? CP, child pornography, or chal's pizza? I don't even know what a chal's pizza is, but it's filled with Cromwell goodness. So yes, here's a whole bunch of people who went, oh,
00:18:46
Speaker
I'm sorry, I'm stuck with Charles Pizza here. A whole bunch of people are going, child pizza and, oh, child porno, sorry, child pornography and cheese pizza? I have completely lost the plot here. I'm going with Cromwell Pizza and
00:19:05
Speaker
Charles Pizza, and I have no idea how anyone came up with the conspiracy theory about Cromwell Pizza and Charles Pizza. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I mean, Cromwell Pizza is just the worst pizza you can possibly imagine, and Charles Pizza is some kind of Brooklyn Nine-Nine fanfic. Anyway, whatever the case is, people who took that
00:19:31
Speaker
child pornography and cheese pizza were synonymous with going, oh, oh, isn't it kind of fascinating that the Democrats are talking about this pizza related thing, but it was very much an end joke until people started taking it seriously. Yeah, so we have the phenomenon of Cromwell pizza.
00:19:57
Speaker
The Charles pizza, I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on for some reason the phrase, no, call me Charles pizza. Mr. Pizza was my father. I don't know, something for a future screenplay. Cromwell pizza is the kind of pizza that a proper Republic would express. But unfortunately, Charles the first pizza is the reason why we don't accept a proper Republican pizza in the British system. So we have this weird sort of mixture of
00:20:26
Speaker
things that are intended as jokes, which sort of become serious in spite of themselves, things which are intended as jokes that people take seriously and develop from there. We have things that are always jokes, but jokes that specifically are sort of in jokes to identify people as belonging to these particular in groups. Now, you are in the unfortunate position of being one of the people who've actually read the manifesto.
00:20:53
Speaker
of the Christchurch shooter. I should point out, legitimately have read the manifesto and can pass a comment upon it. And yeah, the manifesto of the terrorists who committed the Christchurch shootings back in March of last year is filled with meme-ing jokes.
Memes as a tool for extremist communication
00:21:19
Speaker
And in part the whole rationale behind the manifesto is to hide the right-wing politics behind those Mimi in-jokes. And the latest of which now appears to be the Boogaloo.
00:21:38
Speaker
Now see, I saw that film in Romania back in 2018. I have to say, even though I really quite like the actors who are in it, it just wasn't quite the film I thought it was going to be.
00:21:53
Speaker
No, we are, of course, talking about the film break into Electric Boogaloo. Oh, we are not talking about that film at all. But because yes, I mean, that film does not include Gabriel Byrne. No, as far as I know. At any rate,
00:22:13
Speaker
So this came up, apparently, I think this is closer to the end of last year, the Network Contagion Research Institute. This does not sound like a real organization at all. Apparently it is. Who look at Network Contagion, they're talking about
00:22:35
Speaker
contagious things in a digital sense. They released a paper with the report with the catchy title, cyber-swarming, mimetic warfare, and viral insurgency, how domestic militants organize on means to incite violent insurrection and terror against government and law enforcement. Number one bestseller with that title.
00:23:04
Speaker
The NCRI, and in this report, they talk about the sorts of stuff we've just been talking about now, the fact that people are organizing online, sort of white supremacist types are organizing with
00:23:19
Speaker
at least the dream of some sort of armed insurrection, of organizing real world acts of violence. But they do so in a way that's cloaked under means and in jokes and obscure references that only the people who are actually talking about it will get fully. So in particular,
00:23:40
Speaker
The Boogaloo is used as a code word for this civil war we've talked in the past about the accelerationist style of people who think that some sort of a civil war, either a race war or war between sort of left and right political factions, is inevitable and actually are looking to spark this war by performing acts of violence that they think is going to kick things off.
00:24:03
Speaker
They usually, you know, it'll be sort of plans to attack police officers or something like that. The baby sort of false flaggy thing, actually, to attack symbols that are kind of on their side in order to promote a backlash, which they then have an excuse of waging war and that sort of thing.
00:24:21
Speaker
And so this sort of civil war that these accelerationists want to accelerate is in some circles being referred to as the Boogaloo, and I assume they don't explicitly state it in the report, but they say it's a reference to Break Into Electric Boogaloo, and it's long been a, there's long been a joke if any time wants to.
The evolution of 'Boogaloo' in extremist circles
00:24:42
Speaker
Have you ever watched the film that Electric Boogaloo, number two, is at her sequels?
00:24:49
Speaker
I've seen neither Braken nor Braken 2 Electric Boogaloo, I'm afraid. So I'd say I've only seen the first film, but I have high hopes for the second film. Well, apparently that main complaint with the second one is that it's too much like the first one and doesn't do anything different.
00:25:04
Speaker
Given that the first film is not very good, I can see why that's a major complaint. Yeah. 1984, I have memories as a child, so this would have been the mid-80s, of I think probably renting a movie on VCR and seeing for it the trailer of a film which called itself Break Into Electric Boogaloo and having no idea what the hell I was watching. I remember those days when you used to rent films and see ads for other films.
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, what's worse though is when you bloody buy DVDs and they have ads for other films on the front of them. But anyway, another issue entirely. So I'm assuming this all started as a joke talking about this, there's going to be a new civil war. So it's going to be civil war two, electric boogaloo. I'm assuming that's the level of humour that... I also assume, given the discourse we're about to engage in, that as far as the joke ever got as well.
00:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, but so this became the codeword and so it's sort of popping up and then it sort of, as happens on the internet, it mutates in some members of the Electric Boogaloo or the Boogaloo refer to themselves as the Boogerhedeen, do you see? Because they're taking like Boogaloo and Boogerhedeen and sticking those two words together. Why actually don't think they're A, part of the same language family and B in any way related?
00:26:26
Speaker
not at all no and then there's it goes even further to talk of igloo i've heard the phrase big hawaiian igloo is maybe is that meant to be a mutation of igloo becomes big igloo let me let me interject here so hawaii
00:26:43
Speaker
which is a place on Earth which is incredibly tropical, right, to the point where it's actually almost equatorial, given its location very, very close to the equator. The idea that Hawaiian terms might in any way be kind of wintry terms,
00:27:12
Speaker
doesn't really make sense with the geospatial location of where Hawaii is. I mean, count me as someone who is concerned about where things are on the planet Earth, but that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
00:27:28
Speaker
Well, I don't think they ever claimed that it does make sense. It's just, but you will, you will see the phrase igloo coming up in relation to it and, and stuff to do with, with Hawaii. Also, I'm reminded of, um, the, you know, where the term Rick rolling came from. I'm assuming Rick and Morty. No, it's much, much older. It's older than Rick and Morty. It was apparently the origin. Yeah. Is it Babylon five?
00:27:55
Speaker
no it's it's actually it came from 4chan is it is it like 4chan again no uh is it apparently is it the is it the signing of the treaty of wisp failure no uh are you sure can i say what it actually is are you sure it's not a nice seeing creed point quite different uh no no all right right right maybe
00:28:22
Speaker
Maybe it's due to issues back in pre-Athenian Greece. Maybe it's a kind of Polybius related issue.
00:28:38
Speaker
No, it's actually completely irrelevant to the topic of our discussion, but I thought it was an interesting side note that it started off on 4chan. Well, the dude who runs 4chan, I can't remember his name. 4chan, the organization set up by Marcus Antonius.
00:28:55
Speaker
Let's say yes. At one point, as a little prank, put a sort of thing running on the site, so that anytime somebody typed the word egg, when it showed up on this site, it would be replaced with duck.
00:29:11
Speaker
And people thought it was funny when talking about getting Chinese food and having an egg roll, this became a duck roll. And then somebody put up like a photo of a little toy duck on wheels and saying, oh, this is a duck roll. And then people started linking, tricking people to click on a link to an image and then they'd actually have the image of the duck roll. And then somebody thought instead of duck roll, wreck roll and had links to videos, which was became the wreck roll that we know and love.
00:29:39
Speaker
The only reason I bring this up is just sort of to say we can see how quickly things mutate and get weird when memes start popping up and mutating. So it's understandable that we go from a joke in civil war to electric boogaloo to boogaloo to igloo to Hawaii to all sorts of crap.
00:29:57
Speaker
And so the NCI is not quite NCI really. So you know what I'm saying? It's not a Mark Carmen produced TV show about people solving crimes about Marines solving the crimes of Marines who already did.
00:30:14
Speaker
If only, if only it were that. But unfortunately, NCRI, we were able to sort of do some sort of that weird social media analysis that you always see these days that comes up with funny, blobby looking graphs that show stuff spreading all over the place. So they trace the origin of the term boogaloo to 4chan, once again.
00:30:33
Speaker
to the poll ward where people are apparently very racist and hateful. And... Sorry, you're saying that white supremacists are hateful.
00:30:44
Speaker
They can be, unfortunately. I'm sorry to burst your bubble there. See, I kind of feel you should have actually gone wholehearted with the yes, yes, they are, because it sounds like you're being apologetic towards people who are white supremacists. Well, I'm very definitely not doing that. Well, I mean, why didn't you then chastise them when I asked you the question? I've actually completely lost the train of this.
00:31:09
Speaker
I'm just finding out that you appear to be apologetic towards white supremacists. I do not believe that to be the case.
00:31:19
Speaker
I just refer to the fact that when you were questioned upon this, you were absolutely blase about apologizing for white supremacists. Right. In my defense, I was barely listening to a word you said. I was just thinking about what was happening. And in my defense, I was barely listening to a word that you said. Touche, sir. Touche.
00:31:41
Speaker
Well, we are both very drunk at the moment. No, I think I'm drunk and you have been sober for your entire life. Pretty much. Now anyway, back to the Boogaloo. The Boogaloo. So apparently you got showed up on the four-chan boards.
00:31:58
Speaker
associated with phrases like race wars and white power and the horrible murder of race traitors. Am I or are you singing and making light of race wars? I'm trying to make a reference to Just a Jigolo, the Tony Slattery sitcom that you and I both love.
00:32:24
Speaker
Even though we've only watched one season off, because it only lasted one season. And probably wouldn't want to rewatch it now, because it's probably actually quite awful in retrospect, but at the same time... Well, it is from the 90s, so it's like... That Tony Slattery sitcom, we both have deep, deep feelings towards you. Just a jiggle, oh, everywhere I go, Tony Slattery is our master. Et cetera, et cetera. Okay.
00:32:54
Speaker
Let's just power through this stuff so we can get out, we can get the horrible race war, hateful white power shit out of the way. And so I can finally make my claim about why drinking milk makes your white supremacist. Yes, let's do exactly that. So the point is the Boogaloo, it's been showing up in real life in the same way that you remember sort of people started suddenly showing up wearing t-shirts with a big Q on them and stuff like that at right wing rallies. Now people are showing up wearing Hawaiian shirts under their silly cosplay tactical vids. Who knows someone who wears Hawaiian shirts?
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, but he's been doing it since since at least the mid 90s. So he's been playing for QAnon.
00:33:31
Speaker
Well, I don't know, but people have been wearing little Pippi the Frog badges referring to themselves as Boogaloo boys and something about igloos and it's becoming a thing. I would really, really appreciate it if Richard had a entire cohort of people who work in the insurance industry as his Boogaloo boys.
00:33:55
Speaker
Fortunately for all of us, I think that is not the case. But at the same time, it would be great if he was using that against them to achieve his own ends. I'm not saying that Richard is a white supremacist, I'm saying Richard is the kind of person who would use white supremacists to advance a progressive cause. I think Richard should have his own Boogaloo Boys.
00:34:18
Speaker
Well, we'll be sure to bring it up with them after this podcast. Indeed, that should be the first part of our agenda after this podcast. But so this report is concerned with the fact that online you have a lot of people talking about stuff like
00:34:35
Speaker
guns and ammo loadouts and how to 3D print weapons and how to make explosives and all this stuff preparing for some sort of apocalyptic civil war that they think is going to happen and that they can possibly make happen. And they're doing it using silly jokey words like boogaloo and boogaloo boys and Hawaiian shirt wearing stuff.
00:34:56
Speaker
The quote from the report was, like a virus hiding from the immune system, the use of comical meme language permits the network to organize violence secretly behind a mirage of inside jokes and plausible deniability. And yes, plausible deniability is one thing that we haven't mentioned yet, but it comes up quite strongly all the way back to the OK hand symbol thing. They have plausible deniability built in by saying, no, no, no, it was all a joke. It's been silly. You're making a fuss out of nothing.
00:35:23
Speaker
that does not appear to be the case. Haven't you seen what this ridiculous frog looks like? I'm going to say, ridiculous frog looks like, but you know, that's a sexual euphemism, if anyone ever heard one. Probably. OK, but so yes, there's luckily for us very conspiratorial activity going on, whereby people are planning very nasty things in support of very nasty viewpoints, but doing it in such a jokey way is to try and give themselves deniability or just hide what's going on.
00:35:53
Speaker
Like the people in the US with the... I'm going to go into this local corner store with my rocket launcher on my back.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah, which is all very worrying and depressing. Which I should point out, if you're going to wear a rocket launcher on your back, you should probably also put a rocket in your rocket launcher because the whole thing about a rocket launcher is you kind of need a rocket in the rocket launcher. An empty rocket launcher on itself is a completely pointless symbol because it's just a tube. It's basically just an expensive tube, which is really, really heavy.
00:36:32
Speaker
Put a rocket launcher in your back so you can be arrested by the police for holding a terribly destructive weapon in a public place. At least hold onto your particularly stupid political point.
00:36:50
Speaker
So, to finish after this episode on something a little bit less depressing... Oh, it's... No, no, it'll get very... I suppose it is a little bit depressing, but less immediately dangerous. Tell me why drinking milk makes you Hitler.
00:37:04
Speaker
okay so as people may well be aware if they listen to this podcast or followers of me i am vegan so i am not the kind of person who consumes dairy products of any particular kind now it turns out that some white supremacists are drinking lots of milk because it turns out that white people are generally better at absorbing lactose which is
Bizarre extremist beliefs and white superiority myths
00:37:33
Speaker
It does turn out that being what makes you better at taking in particular proteins and fats from lactose. Because it turns out that lactose intolerance is something which is quite common to people who are non-wisdom, who have a non-dairy related diet. But that's
00:37:57
Speaker
Not really quite a great achievement, is it, Josh? Not something to really be proud of, no. And indeed, lactose intolerant, like we in the West refer to lactose intolerance, but really biologically speaking,
00:38:15
Speaker
we're supposed to drink milk as infants and then our body's lactose intolerance happens because our bodies mature and don't need milk anymore and we stop being able to produce it. So being able to drink lactose is kind of a sort of evolutionary retardation. Yeah, you might say that actually lactose tolerant is actually the really, really unusual thing for the human race in general, which is why
00:38:42
Speaker
I will make the claim, and I will sit here, resolute in the belief of this, that if you drink milk you are a white supremacist.
00:38:52
Speaker
Fair enough. But at the end of the day, it's just biology. No, no, Josh, it's even worse. If you drink milk, you love Hitler. If you are the kind of person who drinks milk, you are someone who is lactose tolerant. White supremacists love people who are lactose tolerant, because it shows them that they are
00:39:12
Speaker
properly white and able to make use of their genetic superiority. The kind of people who believe in genetic superiority are the kind of people who think that Hitler was right. So if you like drinking milk, you like your yogurt, you like your ice cream, you like
00:39:31
Speaker
Putting your ice cream on your breakfast cereal because you're some kind of freak. You love Hitler. You're a white supremacist. If you drink milk, you love Hitler. You're a Hitlerist, folks. Fair enough. You like milk. You love Hitler. Josh, do you like milk? I mean...
00:39:48
Speaker
Like, I do drink milk from time to time, but not as a symbol of any purported superiority. God, Josh, you're a white supremacist. I just knew it. You put the milk on your cereal, you're a white supremacist.
00:40:04
Speaker
I do have to reiterate, we're not actually making it up. There are videos of white supremacist types out there chugging giant bottles of milk and somehow thinking that the simple fact of biology. There are videos out there of people who say if you drink soy milk, you're a cuck.
00:40:20
Speaker
Well, there's that as well. Yes, I think there's probably the intersection as well of soy milk drinking is some sort of weird liberal thing and proper conservative types drink milk and then white conservative types drink the most milk of all because somehow this quirk of biology is taken to be in some way an indication of a person's worth. Now, I have to ask you Josh, would you rather be a cuck or a supporter of Hitler? Well, I mean, if those are the two options, they are the only two options.
00:40:49
Speaker
I would go for cuckness, but I fear you've tracked me in some sort of false dichotomy with your crafty milk. To be honest, actually, I'm finding I'm getting more lactose intolerant as I age. I don't actually have breakfast cereal these days because a whole bowl full of milk actually leaves me feeling a little bit queasy. I'm a toast person.
00:41:11
Speaker
Toast for breakfast, that's me, every day. I feel I don't even know you anymore. But I put butter on my toast and then usually peanut butter as well. So you put Hitler's spread on your toast before smearing it with the spread of the people.
00:41:34
Speaker
Let's say, you're not going to stop until you've actually branded me Hitler reincarnated, are you? I'm basically waiting for you to say, Ech bein Third Reich. Right. I don't, I mean, that's not actually German anyway, so. Ech bein Third Reich. Yeah, Ich bin is German, which I know because I took German in high school, not because I'm the reincarnation of Hitler. Well, I mean, if you say that now.
00:42:02
Speaker
Right. I think this episode has actually drawn to a close. We've reached the usual time limit. So I think it needs to be very clear the point that we end this episode on is the fact that I'm not the reincarnation of Hitler. But you are. I've never said I am. You are a Hitler sympathetic.
00:42:20
Speaker
I don't like Hitler. I don't much like milk. I'm just gonna say yes so he can bring this to a close. I can't believe we actually got to this particular point in history. This is actually quite terrible.
00:42:41
Speaker
Goodbye everybody, we'll talk to you next time.
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah, okay, fine. And the bonus content for our patrons, we're going to talk about Obama gate, whatever the hell that is. We're going to talk about people making weird legal challenges in New Zealand. We're going to talk about Michael Flynn. We're going to talk about the police getting up to slightly dodgy stuff in New Zealand. And then maybe a little bit of Bill Gates. Can we go now? Can I just say that have you established people really love talking about Bill Gates, but no one wants to talk about Peter Thiel. No one wants to talk about Peter Thiel.
00:43:30
Speaker
Of course they bloody don't.
Reflecting on absurdity before signing off
00:43:31
Speaker
So, um, with the fact that I am not Hitler, but you do like to suck at Hitler's milky-tate, ringing in your ears, I think we have to bring this new latest episode of the Drunk Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy to a graceful close. There's nothing so graceful as admitting to sucking at Hitler's milky-tate. Goodbye. I am so embarrassed by everything I've said.
00:43:58
Speaker
you
00:44:04
Speaker
You've been listening to the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy, starring Josh Addison and Dr. M.R. Extended, which is written, researched, recorded and produced by Josh and Em. You can support the podcast by becoming a patron, via its Podbean or Patreon campaigns. And if you need to get in contact with either Josh or Em, you can email them at podcastconspiracyatgmail.com or check their Twitter accounts, Mikey Fluids and Conspiracism.
00:45:05
Speaker
And remember, remember, oh, December, what a night. Actually, I will return to you momentarily. I must go to the bathroom. No, you do that. You and your bladder, honestly. One of these days, that person is going to have to just ditch this over-reliance on physical bodily processes.
00:45:35
Speaker
and ascend humanity like the rest of us, quite frankly. I mean, what sort of world are we in where people just stop and relieve themselves of bodily waste just because they happen to need to, just because they have a functioning digestive system and kidneys and urinary stuff. They feel the need to flaunt it, flaunt it in front of an internet audience
00:46:05
Speaker
some by declaring to anyone who wants to know that that they're off to go and go and go and indulge in their base physical beastly processes. I'm shocked, shocked and dismayed the state of the world today. I thought I was going to be able to keep talking about stuff until then got back but I think I'm out of things to say so I'm just going to sit here in silence maybe check my phone
00:46:36
Speaker
Ah, Twitter, always there for me. Oh, that's right, there's the new Charlie Brooker thing, which is 9 p.m. tonight British time, which I guess is sometime in the morning tomorrow. I have to watch out for that. Good old, good old Charlie. You know, I've never really, I've never watched a full episode of Black Mirror. Just, I don't need that amount of depressingness, but I tend to like everything else Charlie Brooker has had a hand in.
00:47:06
Speaker
I've always liked his wipe features. So now he's put up a special one, specifically all about, I guess, this COVID-19 business. I hear noises. Is that him returning to us? Thoroughly drained. Thoroughly spent.
00:47:36
Speaker
Thoroughly purified, purified of the impurities that they've picked up due to an afternoon of drinking with Nick. Oh, Nick, you, what are you, Mephistophelean figure, just have another drink in, it'll be fine. You'll sober up by the time we start recording the podcast, but secretly he knows, he knows that what we want, what everybody wants is the drunkest impossible.
00:48:04
Speaker
trying to recapture the glory of that fabulous first drunk podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. We're basically community here, trying, you know, they spent the better part of sort of five and a half seasons trying to recapture the glory of that first paintballing episode, and they never did. They tried and they tried. They went downhill badly in season three, not season four. Season four wasn't particularly good, but the rot had set in well before.
00:48:33
Speaker
I think you'll agree. If you go back and look at the old episodes, the later half of season three was not particularly great. And then stories diverge about what actually happened. Dan Harmon originally talked about how it was all about the money and he got booted off the show because the producers basically had someone who would do it cheaper
00:48:55
Speaker
And then many years later in the whole me too thing, he then did one of his usual self excoriating mayor Culper type things and talked about how he'd become obsessed with a, with one of his workmates or something and missed everything up there and suggest that it was, that that was the reason why he got taken off the show. And quite frankly, I have no idea. All I do know is that after coming back in season five and making a bunch of shitty snide, gas leakier references to season four, which, which.
00:49:20
Speaker
did its best, quite frankly. It couldn't really replicate the formula, and that was all it was really trying to do, but who really could? But at least it was trying to actually make the characters not be assholes anymore. Everybody's back. I am back. There you are. Are you drained?
00:49:40
Speaker
I am. That was... Are you voided? I got somewhat delayed by talking with my mother and other related issues. Oh, look at you having urinary systems and mothers and...
00:49:54
Speaker
It's true. There's a terrible thing where one has a mother. Oh, the motherization. I don't know what to make of that. Anyway. All right. Let me now alt tab into. All right. We are into the preamble.
00:50:15
Speaker
I bet a stick in it. Yeah, no, I am. I'm about to clap in, because otherwise, yes, otherwise, editing this will be an awful chore. Hit me. Unless, of course, you choose to leave in all the stuff I was saying while you were out of the room. Got into a discussion of community eventually. I may well listen to it and keep some of it. You never actually know. We never know.
00:50:45
Speaker
Right. So, so there's a lot of this is well, some of this is going to be stuff that we've talked about before. But again, it's another case of we need to talk about the fact that you've been cheating on me.
00:51:02
Speaker
We've been through that. It was in the comic intro to the podcast. And I realized that many people go, it's been dealt with. Josh, I feel deeply betrayed. You are now appearing in podcasts without me. Now I know I have appeared in internet broadcast without you, but the thing is I am more important than you. You are now striking out on your own.
00:51:31
Speaker
and appearing in other podcasts. And frankly, I don't know how about how you feel about this, but I feel deeply, deeply portrayed to tell me what is invalid argument and why you're appearing upon it. Right. This at this point, I do have to ask, you're a little drunk. Have you forgotten that we've already recorded the preamble? I have, but I don't know what invalid argument is.
00:51:59
Speaker
Okay, we have been over this. You may wish to choose when you're editing a podcast, which we leave in. In the intro, we make a joke about it, but I need you to tell. But then we recorded a preamble where we talked about how I'd been on this podcast, this Java-based thing, talking about technical writing. We actually didn't do that. And then you went to the toilet.
00:52:28
Speaker
What I recall is we recorded the intro and then I had to go deal with an issue and apparently you talked with a phantom of me and then that phantom you talked about in valid argument?
00:52:41
Speaker
No, we recorded an intro, and then we recorded a preamble, and then you went to the bathroom, and now we're here. No, no, no, no. Someone else went to the bathroom. You can go back and listen to the recording. This is actually a bit disturbing, and I feel very, very disconcerted by what's going on here. I'm just going to take a sip of water here. Just take my word for it. I'm going to do it in the most, because we need to
00:53:09
Speaker
keep the fiction up here in the most... I say, how can I take a drink of water from this glass and make it sound as if I'm trying to take it... Alright, sorry. For those of you listening at home, I'm going to try to make this the most obvious drink of water of all time. Okay.
00:53:28
Speaker
Oh, that's some good hydrating going on there. Well, while Em is busy flushing away the toxins accrued from an afternoon of drinking with Nick, that Mephistophelean maniac who knew exactly what he was doing when he said, no, have another drink, Em. It'll be fine.
00:53:47
Speaker
He knew full well that he was teeing up another drunk podcaster's guide to the conspiracy, but that's fine. Oh, so many drinks. Anyway, so I'm assuming we've actually, so the thing is, depending on which version of this intro that we actually engage in, which explains what invalid argument is, let's just say that I don't take the original take.
00:54:14
Speaker
Okay, assuming you don't take the original one, we'll recap. This week, a friend of mine, Mark, who is one of the co-hosts of the podcast called Invalid Argument, which is a podcast, a sort of technically minded one, a little bit over my head, all about Java, the programming language, not the
00:54:36
Speaker
Island of Indonesia, or the coffee, was having decided to do an episode about technical writing, and since in my day job I'm a technical writer, he thought, hey there's this person I know who has actual first-hand experience of what we're talking about. So I went along there, had a jolly good time, talked a bit about technical writing, I don't think said anything I shouldn't have about the company that I work for,
00:55:03
Speaker
but we'll see how that works out. And a good time was had by all. So yes, finally, for once, I am the one stepping out on you. Well, I said, of course, I took a whole interview with David Farrier. You did. Yep, yep, no, you still, you couldn't let me have my moment in the sun. David Farrier, who has 150,000 followers on Twitter. David Farrier, who's a newsletter which has 10,000 subscribers. Guess how many
00:55:31
Speaker
about 60. Yeah. Unfortunately, it turns out that David Ferri is
00:55:39
Speaker
subscribers on social media may not be particularly active and this is I mean this is not a a slight against David Farrier he does absolutely excellent work it's a slight against his followers who despite the fact there is depending on how you measure it 150 000 or 10 000 whether you go by twitter followers or subscribers to his newsletter not even one percent
00:56:07
Speaker
Not even 1% of those people decided to follow me. Although I do, I did actually notice, maybe I should have mentioned it, that in the newsletter, he had links to your sort of academic page listing all your papers and things, you've been in journals and stuff. And then he had a link to the podcast, but I'm pretty sure it just links back to your academic page again.
00:56:35
Speaker
So possibly it was dodgy linking on his part that didn't send people to your actual social media presence. I think it's all David's fault. I think I'm comfortable saying everything's all David's fault. Fair enough. I mean, we may have funded his film tickle.
00:56:52
Speaker
Yeah, to the tune of a good $10 each or something. I can't remember what up a Kickstarter. Well, you know, I mean, basically, when you think about it, it's it's basically more than we'll ever earn in a year. Yes, yes. Yeah, he can take it on the chin, I'm sure. Precisely. The moral of the story is, I thought I'd get at least 10%. And I got a lot less than 10%.
00:57:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's the Internet for you. Now, speaking of the Internet being a horrible place, can we move on now to talk about right wing dickishness on the Internet? Do we have to? Because it's kind of a horrible topic. Well, it is, but we can take the piss as much as we want, though. We would be there can be mockery and OK, fine. If we were to take the piss out of people, we must take the piss out of right wing people. Yes. And so we will.