Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Especially for Athletes podcast, where we explore essential principles that empower athletes to learn life's most valuable lessons through sports.
Speaker: Hi everybody. Thanks for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. I'm Dustin Smith. Here, as always, with Shad Martin and our guest today. Super excited to have you on, Brayden. Brayden Brown. Brayden, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker: It's good to see you guys. Thanks for having me on. So I've known Braden for... A lot of years, known to family for a lot of years. And then Brayden just recently, and not too long ago.
Speaker: Got the job as director of mental health. is that what's What's the actual title at BYU? Yeah, I'm an associate athletic director of mental health for BYU Athletics. Okay. Awesome. And how long have you been doing that for?
Speaker: So in that role, this is my second year, but this is my fourth year total working with BYU Athletics before I was doing contracted work. And then they created the director of mental health position for me and I stepped into that. Um,
Speaker: two years ago. so So, Brayden, right before we hopped on here, I told you that. when especially for athletes first started about 15 years or so ago. mental health was just becoming a topic. And I don't even know if it was something that...
Speaker: would be talked about when we would. ah present in front of athletes since that time we've been in front of tens of thousands of athletes in person. And then through the podcast, mostly to parents and then obviously, you know, through social media. but The mental health thing.
Speaker: you know since then has become quite a topic. And recently, I would say just in the last... you know, seven or eight, nine years, you would you would probably know that better. but it It really has just recently become.
Speaker: A topic, not ah not a topic, but something that we're okay talking about. in the sports world, in athletics. I would say that. 15 years ago when you finished up playing at BYU.
Speaker: mental health and the athletic. world really wasn't something that was. you know, that was talked about that much would, you know, when, when did you feel like. you started hearing mental health.
Speaker: and athletics being something that we were okay talking about. Yeah, it's such a good point, and I agree with you 100%. When I was playing at BYU, I was back 08 to 12. I mean, we did have a resource at BYU, but it was kind of just a name and an office. and I don't really know how many people actually utilize that resource.
Speaker: Because it kind of, again, and I think this is just kind of the sport culture in general, there's kind of the stigma towards, you know, I got to be a tough guy and figure it out and I can't be. weak and soft and all those other things. But I i think that probably.
Speaker: around like the 2020s. And that's kind of around when I started doing my research during my PhD program on student athlete mental health. The NCAA started making it a point to...
Speaker: providing more resources for collegiate student athletes. to address our mental health concerns because that continued to be the number one issue that student athletes would report from a collegiate.
Speaker: intercollegiate athletic participation standpoint was mental health. And so they couldn't just ignore it anymore. And now it's even to the point where NCAA Division I athletic departments are required to have an embedded... licensed mental health professional to be able to provide services for their student athletes.
Speaker: So is that the case now at all? All the Division I programs have to have somebody? trained or educated in the mental health world on on hand, on staff. to help athletes. Is that that now official everywhere?
Speaker: So my understanding is, is at least for the P4 institutions, but yeah, so the P4 level, and it might even be all. ncaa division one institutions where it has to be a licensed mental health provider embedded in the athletic department.
Speaker: Yeah. Can I ask Dustin just real quick? Can you tell us kind of what that? looks like in an athletic department? Like what is your day to day? job with BYU Athletics. What do you do to help the athletes? I'd be curious what your job looks like.
Speaker: Yeah, so I spend, I would probably say 70 % of my day is one -on -one um meetings with individual student athletes. And sometimes it's not even individual athletes. Because of my training as a marriage and family therapist, I actually encourage athletes pretty frequently to bring in.
Speaker: other individuals that might be kind of contributing to some of the... the struggles that they might be experiencing whether it's a coach or a family member or teammate And I've actually spent. time in my office with a player and a coach, player and a teammate, player and a friend or roommate, a significant other.
Speaker: And they're always kind of surprised when i I bring that up. They're like, wait, I can actually bring someone else in here. And I'm like, please, please do bring them in here because. we're relational creatures and what's happening in our relationships is also going to affect our mental health. And it's all interconnected and all affects performance. um So 70 % is probably one -on -one or... um with an athlete and someone else that might be involved in whatever kind of the the challenge might be. And then I'd say the other 20%, if I'm not in my office meeting one -on -one with athletes, I'm either in the weight room with the football team, at practice with the women's soccer team, gymnastics team, swim and dive, football team.
Speaker: um I was just talking to an individual at football practice today, and they said... The only way to get to know... coaches and players is to be in their environment and to be consistent. in what they're doing. And that's 100 % true for what I do. I wouldn't have half the meetings that I have with the football team if I wasn't at practice consistently just because they wouldn't know who I am. And then when they see me as kind of someone who's...
Speaker: a part of the team. And they understand what my role is. And then they also understand the importance of the mental side of sport. That makes it just a lot more seamless and way less taboo because now I'm not just like some stranger sitting in a...
Speaker: quiet office. I'm you know right there on the front line, part of the team. and It kind of helps normalize it a little bit. Yeah, I agree with that. And then good for you for recognizing and doing that. Because my guess is, and Brayden, you can talk to this, is it something that's getting easier? but My guess is is that all three of us were involved in in playing college sports.
Speaker: um We were. 10 years or so before you and we, when we finished up, mental health wasn't even a, I don't think those two words were ever. I ever heard them next to each other. We for sure as heck wouldn't have gone and talked to somebody about it if ah because like you said earlier, unfortunately.
Speaker: And thank goodness. I think we're getting past this and coaches who aren't past this shame on you. You should. Resign. it. you need to get out of the game is if if if we're still holding it over a kid's head.
Speaker: There's a weakness or, it' you know. ah some sort of soft, you you can't play because you you're struggling with some mental health. It's definitely something that can be. treated and and and you know, like another part of the body being injured. There's professionals out there that can help with it. But if you noticed.
Speaker: It's starting to be easier. for athletes to talk? is that is Are they opening up more to you? Are you seeing that? Or is it still something that's... sort of They're scared to do. I would say.
Speaker: um In general, there are a lot more people that are receptive to reaching out for mental health support and assistance. And I also think... that the environment and the culture helped shape that. Um, willingness.
Speaker: and desire. So, for example, at BYU with Coach Satake, He constantly is telling these guys, and you have to understand Coach Satake as...
Speaker: a football dude and a Polynesian man. standing up in front of the team and telling all these other and all these you know young men that If you're struggling with your mental health or if you need someone to talk to, it doesn't make you weak to go talk to someone. It actually makes you weak to to be struggling and to not reach out for help because...
Speaker: You can't be the best version of yourself or the best football player that you can be if you have these things that you're not addressing and you're not getting help for. And we have the resources available, so there's no excuse to not be able to. address those things. And so when that's being preached from the head guy,
Speaker: And he's a football guy. And not a guy that most people would look at and consider to be you know soft or weak. I think that that also helps. kind of set the culture. for these these young men to feel more comfortable and vulnerable in reaching out. I also think it helps the fact that I played football.
Speaker: um And it's interesting, the perception of, I think, a lot of the athletes that I work with. ah Because I've heard from a number of them that they kind of see me as just this calm. you know, chill guy. And I'm like, it's. Funny for me to hear that, because if you talk to any of my teammates. I don't think they would use either of those adjectives that describe me. um And I helped them understand that, you know, I didn't get into this position because I was a knight in shining armor with how to effectively deal with the mental and emotional side of sport. In fact, I was kind of.
Speaker: what the youth nowadays would call a crash out. Um, But I wanted to be able to give back in a way to help these young athletes learn that there's more effective ways. And um so it's kind of my way to give back and to help them.
Speaker: basically learn how to not do it the way that I tried to do it, which was the hard way. Yeah. And Shad, Brayden, I'm so glad you said what you just said because... I have said, I started saying it a a couple of years ago in presentations. I just said it last week at a...
Speaker: school bit of a parent and athlete night event that I spoke at. I brought up exactly what you just said. And every time I say it, I cringe a little bit because I. So now that you've said it, I feel like I can say it more because a professional. Now you get to quote Braden. You know, you can do that I can say Braden said it. You guys stay away. it's his It's his quote. But I do. I bring up what you just said about.
Speaker: A coach to talk to that. You know, sometimes I think we think that the tough thing to do, that the more difficult, hard thing to do is to. to keep it in and to just. convince ourselves that we're toughening this out.
Speaker: Right. That I'm being tough when the truth is. You could make the argument that's actually the easier thing to do. The harder thing is to go and ask for help because. That. Is that sometimes a check on our... our ego, our humility, like we don't like to ask for help, right? And so to admit that we need it.
Speaker: And then to go and ask for it is. For most of us. a much harder ask than to simply say, I'm just going to be tough and get through this. Actually. The harder thing to do is for most of us.
Speaker: is to admit that we might be struggling and and go and ask. you know, somebody for help. So these guys like. Kevin Love. and Dak Prescott and Michael Phelps and Paul George and, you know, these athletes who have come, Simone Biles, the athletes that have come about and recently talked about it. um Do you feel like that message is getting through, Brayden, or are they more like more willing to talk now?
Speaker: Yeah, I was going to say that's that I think that's honestly been a huge driver in the willingness for today's generation to be more open to talking about it is how vocal. Some of the best athletes in the world have been about saying, look, I've struggled with my mental health. It wasn't until I went and saw a therapist or a sports psychologist that I... didn't start to figure some of these things out and just learn how to understand myself and my emotions and my thoughts.
Speaker: more effectively so that I can be a better version, not only as an athlete, but as a husband and as a parent and just as a human being. and i think that When athletes look to those people, and it makes my job a lot easier because I reference people like that all the time. It's like, look at this guy's quote or look at this. individuals quote what she said before she competed on the Olympic stage, you know, talking about she was so nervous her heart was going to fall out of her chest.
Speaker: And I think that. It helps normalize it for these young athletes. Like, wait, really? Those. Those people that I put up on this pedestal that are the best in the world, they also get nervous and scared. and you know, almost pass out before their performances. Maybe there's nothing that's wrong with me or maybe I'm not as screwed up as I thought. So I think that does make a big difference. And I also wanted to add one more comment just based off.
Speaker: Um, What you said, because the way that I try to frame it to the athletes. is I mean... Any one of us can go into the gym and just pick a handful of exercises to try to do and we can, you know.
Speaker: fake our way through a workout and it'd probably be a decent workout, but it's way more beneficial and effective to go to someone who's an expert in the strength and conditioning field and to get program programming for them because they're going to make it way more.
Speaker: bang for your buck. And so you have the strength and conditioning professionals helping you with how to build a bigger, stronger, faster body. You have nutritionists and dieticians who are helping you understand what your dietary needs are for.
Speaker: whatever you're trying to do, whether it's gain muscle, lose fat, whatever it is, you can kind of wing it on your own. but way more helpful to use a professional who's in that realm. You have coaches that teach you how to be better at your football position.
Speaker: And so it. It actually makes sense that... on the mental side that doesn't come with a playbook about how do I... regulate my emotions effectively when The game's on the line and I'm about to go kick a game -winning field goal. It's like, why wouldn't I want to go talk to someone who...
Speaker: can help me develop the skill set to be able to do that. Because that. ultimately ends up being the difference in performance for most of these athletes. Yeah. You know, Dustin, we talk, Braden, about... um a principle called win the hour.
Speaker: Which is every hour of every day, you ask yourself the question, what do I need to do to win this hour? Whether it's school. relationships, practice a game, whatever.
Speaker: And. It sounds to me as I listen to you that when an athlete is struggling with anxiety, depression, disappointment, feeling... overwhelming pressure.
Speaker: Um, You're saying winning the hour often looks like going to someone who could teach you how to handle those things. better in your life. Right. And if you'll take an hour and go meet with. a A Braden Brown or the equivalent at a high school or but or a counselor, if you're having.
Speaker: trouble with those things. That hour is so valuable and will... help and enhance every other hour. And a lot of kids, it just feels like they're dealing with.
Speaker: Hmm. This anxiety, depression, disappointment, feelings of... being overwhelmed. And they think that it's losing. or admitting defeat. to go get help.
Speaker: Instead of... I am going to go so I can win. This person will help. every other aspect of my life. And that came in, I'm so glad you came in and said one other thing, you know. It's it's just like those other things, the mental side of life.
Speaker: not just sports. could be helped so much with someone to coach you through thought patterns. And if we looked at it that way, more kids would get help, I'm sure. For sure.
Speaker: you ah You said earlier, understanding yourself. like that That phrase caught me. um When you said, you know people getting help or talking to better understand themselves. Would you say that? When you're meeting with an athlete.
Speaker: Are there certain triggers or certain? Because when we say mental health, like... It's not a one size fits all for everybody. Somebody might be. you know, need have ah a mental health issue over losing or over the pressure of the moment or over feeling judged by others or handling a coach and how the coach...
Speaker: speaks or addresses or raises their voice or, you know, the fear of failure? Like, are you trying to find out like what? those things are because I'm guessing that For a lot of people, there's breathing techniques, or there's positive imagery, or writer or these things that you can do. But for somebody else, it might be something as simple as...
Speaker: You know, but they got to do more pregame work or they got to. cut certain people out of their life. Like what, what are you trying to find when you meet with somebody so that you can be effective at addressing what the core issue is.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a great question. And kind of the underlying or overlaing overarching principle of what you were talking about is when it comes to mental health and mental performance, there's a lot of great tools and skills. And. theoretical orientations but the bottom line is is everybody is their own unique person and There's not a one size fits all approach to. to anything when it comes to the mental side. And that's why I... I kind of have some unpopular opinions.
Speaker: Among some of my colleagues, because I actually don't believe in this concept of like positive or negative. thinking or self -talk. I think that there's... Self -talk that's helpful with what we're trying to accomplish and thinking that's helpful. And I think there's thinking and. self -talk that's not really helpful for what we're trying to accomplish. Because as soon as we start getting into labeling things good and bad, Now we're attaching a value to a thought.
Speaker: And then that creates. even more emotional distress sometimes. Um,
Speaker: and and And we end up getting into kind of this battle with our thoughts instead of just recognizing that I'm a thinking human being. Sometimes thoughts are going to show up that I don't like, but that doesn't mean that I have to listen to them or obey them. I can recognize them, make space for them. And then I can focus on, okay, what's the most helpful thing for me to do? I love love the concept of how do I win the hour? How do I win this moment? What can I commit to in this moment that's going to help me accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish?
Speaker: And then we can learn to bring. All thoughts and feelings along for the ride and still stay committed to what really matters most in the moment instead of trying to. push thoughts and feelings away or or wrestle with them or avoid them or judge ourselves for feeling them because that just adds more.
Speaker: friction and tension and I just now I'm stressed about being stressed or frustrated about you know thinking certain thoughts instead of just letting myself have a human moment and then deciding, okay, what do I want to do about it right now? So if a field goal kicker was getting ready to kick a field goal.
Speaker: Sitting there on the... On the sideline, heart is pumping in so much. All these thoughts are coming into his head like, oh my gosh, like if I miss this, what would you...
Speaker: tell a young person in that situation, you can take any sport, but let's take that one. to to deal with those intrusive thoughts that are coming in. How would you? coach them to. deal with that in a healthy way. So interesting that you just asked that question because I literally just got done having a very similar conversation to this just today.
Speaker: um And what we talked about is the process of acknowledging, accepting and committed action. So that's kind of the the framework that I teach or noticing, accepting, committed action. So I notice.
Speaker: that I'm having a lot of different thoughts right now, where I'm noticing nerves, I'm noticing excitement, whatever it is. Even just naming that, and it sounds cliche, but there is a lot of validity to the whole name it, detain it. If I can name what I'm experiencing, now I'm taking control over that experience versus letting that emotional experience control me.
Speaker: So i'm I'm noticing whatever thought, feeling, emotions showing up without trying to fight it, resist it. I'm just letting it be there. And then I can accept the fact that because this is important to me. And because I'm a human being that sometimes this shows up, especially in moments like this.
Speaker: And I always. Use the caveat. Accepting a thought or a feeling doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't have to like feeling this way in order to accept it And then the third part is kind of like what I was talking about earlier. Okay, so I've acknowledged the emotion or the thought.
Speaker: I have accepted the fact that that's just part of how my body responds in these moments. And then I commit to what's my process? What are the things that are in my control in this moment that I can give my full attention to and commit to?
Speaker: And then we focus on those. And I try to keep it pretty simple, two or three things. Because if we try to over... Whelm ourself with 15 different cues. Now I'm panicking because I'm like, oh my gosh, like it just feels so overwhelming and now I'm just gonna shut down and... that's That's also not. Ideal, but I can know I can commit to Taking a breath.
Speaker: taking my steps, and then committing to attacking the ball. And I know if I do those three things consistently, that's what's going to give me my best chance of getting the outcome that I'm hoping for. Hmm. That's good, man. Do you feel like there's one thing and there's not one thing, so I'm not going to put you on the spot that much, but.
Speaker: What have you noticed in your experience? are the more common um either misconceptions or the common...
Speaker: are Are there commonalities in what? athletes are feeling or bringing to you that you're finding, hey, this seems to be you know It seems to have a trend to it. This is happening to a... you know to a lot of kids have you noticed that with athletes yeah i think that just There's a lot more pressure in sport nowadays and just expectations to be great right now and to, um,
Speaker: be more perfect in what you're doing. So it breeds a lot of perfectionism, which also breeds a lot of anxiety. um And then I also think the imposter syndrome is a big thing too. It's, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker: how many athletes that we look at from the outside perspective and think like, man, that dude is. just the man or she is amazing at what she does and she looks so confident but behind closed doors it's like Sometimes I wonder why I'm even here, you know, and I wonder if I'm really good enough to be doing this.
Speaker: And. Um, I would also say for... Athletes that are just leaving high school and not making that transition from high school to the college level, that's that's usually a pretty big adjustment because...
Speaker: It's a totally different environment, new teammates, new coaches, new... Everything. Um, And sometimes that can get really overwhelming. and cause a lot of self -doubt and...
Speaker: questioning and all that stuff. but I would say those are kind of. some of the more common things that are talked about. And then also relationship issues, like learning how to to navigate.
Speaker: dynamics on a team because The reality is is we we don't have the fortune to just pick. all of our teammates and coaches. We're kind of. thrown into a system of people with personalities that are sometimes similar to ours, sometimes very different than ours. And it's like we're expected just to get along with these people and have no issues.
Speaker: But. that's just not how human beings work and so learning how to adjust and adapt and get along with people that are different than you um and learning how to be competitive without being combative is.
Speaker: also a ah challenging task sometimes. that's an interesting phrase man Dustin I have been talking a lot about this. We had a 30 -minute phone conversation just...
Speaker: A couple weeks ago about. You said the difference between being competitive and combative. Mhm. who's and I was. queuing up a question, but it was a good time. Maybe I'll ask it now, but I'd love you to explain that phrase a little better and maybe it would help that. We teach athletes to try.
Speaker: to strive to compete without contempt. But. to really compete, to be intense competitors without it being fueled by. This need to hate your opponent or want to show up your opponent or want to hurt your opponent.
Speaker: Something I went through as an athlete coming home from a... an LDS mission and coming home was trying to balance like. living my religious beliefs and feeling. Bye. love others and care for others and that being a fierce competitor. I imagine you've... You've witnessed that dynamic there with so many. going through that same thing at BYU
Speaker: That was that was a lot there, Brad. But I've just said, like, trying to balance that. What do you mean when you say the difference between being competitive and combative? And can you speak to that?
Speaker: What we teach about competing without contempt. In relation. Yeah. No, I love that too. Competing without contempt. That's a, that's a great one. um I think it's really easy, especially in a sport like football. And I always use football as my reference point because that's what I played in college. And that's, you know, the team I work with most consistently. But in fall camp. and spring ball.
Speaker: When you're... going against the same guys every single day in practice, it's really really hard not to have friction and contention, especially when you're competing for a job. And it's it's hard.
Speaker: To not let that. kind of take over and remind you that like we're actually trying to help each other get better and we're not out here trying to like fight each other and be each other's worst enemies and so sometimes it's a hard line to balance but i think it's an important line to balance that we can compete and help elevate each other without trying to tear each other down and do just stupid crap that's not necessary. and Again, I have to use the caveat that it might Sound.
Speaker: ironic that i'm saying that and for people that know me that are listening to this because i'm a very competitive and fiery person on the football field and i may or may not have gotten in several altercations when i was a football player at byu or playing intramural sports But again, I'm trying to help these athletes learn how to do it differently and better than I did. so um It's.
Speaker: It's a tough thing to do, and it's... We talk about, there's there's a lot of cliche things that are said out there, and a lot of them I actually disagree with. One of them is... you know Don't compare yourself to others.
Speaker: That's like telling someone to like. not go outside and look at the sun it's like you're gonna it's gonna happen whether you want to or not because that's just what we do as human beings as we compare and With these athletes, they are literally compared to their teammates every single day.
Speaker: Um, And it's hard. it's It's hard to. you know compete against your teammate who you're supposed to love and support and build up. while also knowing that they're the ones that are in the way of you having that starting role.
Speaker: And so it's it's a delicate balance and it's tough to figure out how to navigate. But I think there's going in with with the intent that we're all trying to. Build each other up. We're trying to compete together be the best versions of ourselves and we are capable of doing that without hating each other and tearing each other down is...
Speaker: I think useful. And that's how you would find combative. in that in that Little. you know compete without being combative compete is help each other get better combative is Try to tear down your teammates in order to.
Speaker: overcome them, almost like a war. You know, yeah. In combat you're trying to degrade your enemy until they submit. You you're say compete, but don't.
Speaker: Don't. combat your your own people. I like that. Distinction. Yeah. and That's Brayden, you're... You're hitting on some things you may not even realize, but you're touching on some things that we've written about in our book. and So it's great to hear you. explain it in kind of a different you know different wording because that fits perfectly with what we talk about with compete without contempt. Brayden, I want you for a second to speak directly to female.
Speaker: athletes or to parents of female athletes. Sometimes you know I know in our world, I'm more in the football world. and as well So I spoke to a group of girls just the other day and and there were certain topics I didn't really know. if I was saying it right, or if I should word it differently, just being a male and and being a coach of, of males, you know, for a lot of years. um
Speaker: Girls kind of have it a little bit different. You know, if a female coach or even player is ultra aggressive or shows emotion. and screams and yells, they're looked at as being. Chattier are worse words, Earth. are assigned to that coach or to that.
Speaker: woman. Where if a man does it, it's he's just so. passion look at him pushing his guys and they just fall in line and they love his toughness and his great he loves him so much you know so how what do you is that something do you have to talk with girls or or speak with you know females or the parents of females Because they have other pressures that the males don't necessarily have. um If you were talking to a group of...
Speaker: parents of of women athletes, girl athletes, or to... you know, female athletes right now. Is there anything in particular that you talk to them to be aware of in the mental health world that maybe isn't so much a thing?
Speaker: to the guys, or is it all the same? No, I mean, I definitely think that there's... um specific nuances to being a female student athlete compared to a male student athlete. And yeah you're right. I don't really have a great answer for just kind of the the cultural differences and how. males and females are raised. But I do think that's a very real thing in terms of just like what behaviors are deemed as appropriate and acceptable for males. for
Speaker: females. And so that's that's kind of an uphill battle and ah in and of itself. But as, you know, someone who's married to a woman and I have two daughters of my own and I actually work. probably the second most closely with the women's gymnastics team at BYU. And I spent quite a bit of time with their team and coaching staff.
Speaker: um which is now an all -female coaching staff. That, uh... I mean, they they have a lot of extra pressures, I think, that male athletes don't necessarily have to deal with this is in terms of just like...
Speaker: beauty standards and how they look and their body shape. and how they behave and emotions that they can show versus what they can't show. Um, Okay.
Speaker: And I... I don't know if this is a... Great way to answer your question, but it doesn't really matter whether whether I'm meeting with a male athlete or female student athlete. It's my... My job is to help them determine, okay. What is it that you're trying to be about? What are your goals?
Speaker: what's helping you kind of achieve those goals what's getting in the way of you achieving those goals And how can we start to do things that are going to help you be more in alignment with what you're trying to accomplish? and leaning into being just your full.
Speaker: authentic and genuine self. Because at the end of the day, If we can't be authentically who we are and we're just out there putting a front on and faking it the whole way, like that's that's also emotionally exhausting. And I think that that's even greater.
Speaker: for females to deal with because I feel like there's that pressure to just be a certain way all the time or act a certain way all the time. Versus... Just allowing yourself just to be authentically you. but Yeah. i also It's easier said than done. That's probably something I say more than anything with the athletes I work with is. I recognize this is easier said than done.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, Chad and I both have. ah You know, I have three daughters. She had us three daughters and and my two sons. i It's definitely different. I found with my daughters, I feel like they just have so much more going on and more that they.
Speaker: feel like is going on or feel like they have to. Yeah, live up to or or. that they worry about when it comes to especially the you know, how others may view them or think of them or their image.
Speaker: And that's, that you know, social media and all these things have only made it. You know, tougher, I think, for all these these kids. And you kind of alluded to that earlier about the pressure being more now than. than maybe it was before. um Is there...
Speaker: So you're you're speaking to some parents right now and they have athletes. What are some things that you might tell them to be careful of? Are there certain things that they may say or do that might?
Speaker: be words or phrases or things you might say don't. or or word that differently or... or or signs to look for that their child might be struggling with mental health? Yeah, I mean, the first part of that question, and I'm still practicing, so...
Speaker: Again, I'll preface this by saying that. I'm a marriage and family therapist. I have three children. And I can assure you, and my my wife and my children will... very quickly back this statement up that I don't do things perfectly.
Speaker: Most of the time. um But I do know that my kids respond better. And I do know that based on what I hear from athletes is. It would be great if there was more listening and less like trying to teach and correct from parents really try to understand from your kid's perspective, what's going on in their world without kind of trying to insert your own agenda into.
Speaker: what you kind of observe, which might be really valid. points or concerns, right? Like, why'd you do this? or You should have done this or you know why Why would that happen? And what the kid really needs is...
Speaker: Hey, it was it was fun watching you compete out there. Hey, do you you know is there anything that you want to talk about the game? Do you want to talk about it or do you not want to talk about it? And kind of letting them have a little bit more. control with how that conversation goes. Sometimes they just need more listening and I'm here for you in your corner and less.
Speaker: You know? why'd you make that pass? Or what were you thinking on this shot? You know, you should have done this. Why'd your coach do that? Cause then it's just like. I'm already overwhelmed. i'm yeah I'm already stressed out. And now I'm even more overwhelmed and frustrated because I don't really want to be talking about this right now. so I think seek first to listen and understand. And then.
Speaker: After that. Um, There can be space for some advice and correction. And. Being okay if if the kid doesn't want to talk about it right then and there. with we don't We don't need to solve every life problem.
Speaker: or have a life lesson after every single practice or a game, sometimes. We can go to bed and... Talk about it at another another time and kind of when they're ready to.
Speaker: Talk about it. Yeah. Before you go to the second part of that question, that can I have a follow -up to that? Yeah. Are there any things... You get to...
Speaker: listen a lot to athletes. Are there any things that parents do? or don't do on social media that seems to add to pressures. um that kids might be having. Man, that's a good question. um i don't I don't know necessarily if there's anything like social media.
Speaker: specifically, but I think... Sometimes parents just trying to be too involved in what their kids are doing seems to be the cause of some...
Speaker: stress and pressure. Um, And then I would also say. you know Something that I hear from... athletes from various sports that I work with is I wish there was I wish people would just Ask. me more questions about. just my life and me and that has nothing to do with me as an athlete or my stats or performance or anything else, like nothing to do with me as an athlete.
Speaker: And it's it's such ah it's a hard balance because... I think that. Most parents that I know, they're well -meaning people and they have good intentions and they're just excited about the fact that their kid has the opportunity to to do it. But sometimes...
Speaker: the questions and how. the the topic of conversation. inadvertently reinforces this athlete -only identity. And that's kind of my only worth is as an athlete in my performance. And that's all there is to me.
Speaker: I think there's this real yearning from athletes to... Be able to have conversations that literally have nothing to do with. their sport or their performance or how the game went.
Speaker: Yeah, we've talked to a number of athletes who have talked about the difficulty, including Max Hall. Um, uh some other other athletes that have talked about the difficulty of when you become an athlete and we call it the sport light the extra attention that's given to an athlete because of
Speaker: They're really good at sports. Everyone in the community wants to talk to them. You know, right now at BYU, you're Bear Bachmeier walking around. not only do You have like, you know. flowing locks but you play the guitar at old folks homes and you know and And everyone would love.
Speaker: They know him as a quarterback, but he's. He's their son. He's their brother, you know. And a lot of athletes have talked about is that sport light grows brighter.
Speaker: It seems... That. Yep. It narrows their identity. To I am just. the quarterback at BYU, or I am just... you know, but you have Caitlin Clark right now in the. at the WNBA that If people talk to her, they want to talk about.
Speaker: basketball. and And it's hard to not let that become your identity. What would you say is the danger? of an athlete letting their athletic identity become their whole identity. Man, it's it's a roller coaster because when it's going great, you're feeling great. And when it's not going great, you're not feeling great. um And.
Speaker: I would say and this is I'm so glad we're having this conversation because I literally just had this conversation with another. individual this morning where It actually makes a lot of sense. and' It's expected for, especially at the collegiate level, for these athletes to have a big part of their identity be encompassed by their...
Speaker: by their athlete status. because they spend so much time, dedication. Blood, sweat and tears. kind of devoting their life to this sport.
Speaker: And they get a lot of attention. They get a lot of perks. They get a lot of whatever it is, NIL deals nowadays. to be an athlete. And so my purpose is to never. Try to make them change that.
Speaker: But I do kind of have. a conversation about you know If and when your sport does get taken away, like. Who else are you? what what matters to you.
Speaker: What are the things that are meaningful to you and fulfilling to you? And a lot of them, full transparency, have never even thought about it. And I think that the danger in that is.
Speaker: We don't always get to choose the expiration date for our athlete status. It's going to happen to every one of us, and sometimes we get to have a say, sometimes we get to anticipate it, and sometimes it happens in one play and then you never play it. uh,
Speaker: minute of your sport again. And then you have to try to figure out, okay, holy cow, who am I outside of being a gymnast or a football player? And so it's never my job to tell people how they should or shouldn't live their life. But I do ask a lot of questions about.
Speaker: You know, what are what are your concerns if... The only thing that matters to you and the only thing that you care about in your life is your sport. And sometimes. I've had athletes where it's like, I don't really care. It's all I care about. It's all I want to do. This is the only thing that matters to me. and I'm like, that's you know that's awesome. And in my mind, I'm thinking.
Speaker: There's going to be ah a day and a time where that's not going to be the case and you' you're just going to have to to learn and figure it out as you go. And sometimes that's how it goes for people. That's how it went for me, honestly, when I stopped playing football. I had no idea what I was gonna do after I played football. I thought I was gonna maybe go into coaching.
Speaker: And then I talked to Coach Mendenhall and... He... encouraged me to have conversations with the graduate assistants, but Um, And after those conversations, I realized I didn't want to go down that path.
Speaker: And then I was. at that place where I'm talking about where it's like, who am I? I've been an athlete my whole life and now I literally have no clue what I'm supposed to do with my life. How am I going to raise a family? How am I going to make money? Like what skills do I have? And that was.
Speaker: Not a fun place to be in. Yeah. And so I think the the sooner athletes can realize. Sport is something that I do, and it's a big part of what I do, but it's not all of who I am. And can I still find ways? to identify and nurture those other aspects of What makes me me like bear?
Speaker: perfect example the dude's out playing guitar and singing it concerts It's like that's a huge part of his identity that's also meaningful and fulfilling to him. But he's also still a very committed and devoted football player. And I think that that's awesome.
Speaker: so Yeah. Okay. No, I think that's so important for... for athletes to think about and maybe parents. listening to this. We have a lot of parents that listen to this. Toot. foster and have conversations like.
Speaker: that's what brought this to mind is when you're talking about parents that become so excited about their kids' success in sports and the attention that's coming and the opportunities that are coming.
Speaker: that that's all the conversations that they have with their kids. Having a more eclectic, I guess, conversation with young people and asking them, what do you like studying? What do you? Tell me about your friends. Tell me about your relationships. footbed Your faith and your... what you believe, what you feel right now. and What interests you? and those Those things can, we can help foster.
Speaker: that more eclectic lifestyle that will lead to a healthier. life after sports. We could also contribute to that narrow view of my whole life of sports. I am.
Speaker: a quarterback. I am a basketball player. And then as soon as that's gone, you don't know who you are. And so And I went through that too. I remember going to a. A baseball game after.
Speaker: My career ended sooner than I thought it would. Just like you said. you An injury at the wrong time. And all of a sudden windows close and doors close. and that is hard to open those back up.
Speaker: And you don't you didn't even know your sports career was going to end and it's over. And then you're. I'm sitting there at a baseball game and now I'm. but i'm Watching one? Instead of playing one? And that was really hard for me to.
Speaker: I walked out of a game early. Because I almost couldn't take it. I couldn't I couldn't take not being on the field and being in the stands. And I wish I would have understood that. Gratefully, I had.
Speaker: My faith. my parents, my family, and and other things that... that helped me have a broader perspective on life. but But that's hard for some, and some it really has a...
Speaker: a very negative impact on them when that sport light shuts off and they're left with with the other parts of their life. any Any other things you would say about that? Because it seems to be something that comes up with former athletes a lot, navigating that. Anything else you would say to...
Speaker: to athletes about that dynamic. Yeah, I think so. One of the interventions that I do with in group. team settings. but I didn't really get to answer this or finish the answer this earlier, just kind of my day to day. So I also do team based work with some of the teams and I go in and I do I talk about some sort of either mental health or mental performance principle, I usually talk to the coach beforehand to see kind of what they've noticed as a coaching staff that their athletes could really benefit from talking about.
Speaker: And sometimes they just kind of leave it up to me to whatever I want to talk about. But one of the things I try to be proactive about is kind of this this talk around identity. And one of the ways I ask it is.
Speaker: you know asking them, who are you? And only one of them can be an athlete. Only one of your answers can be an athlete. And you have to have at least two athletes that are not athletes. Because then it sometimes gets them to even start the process of thinking about.
Speaker: Click. You know, who am I? If I'm not an athlete, like what? What am I about? What actually matters to me? What's fulfilling to me? And I think that even just planting that seed helps them realize that.
Speaker: yeah This is a big part of my life, but it's not the only part of my life. And it's going to end eventually. But I also remember that when I was a ah player at BYU, I had people come in, former players all the time, saying, you know, you never know when it's going to be your last day. and you know, it ends sooner than you think. And, you know, as it a young athlete, I'd kind of be like, okay, whatever. You know, nowadays the kids call him Unk. And I'm just thinking, okay, whatever, dude.
Speaker: But then, you know, it's just you you experience it yourself and it's like, dang. they were right you know it's kind of like you know, being a a kid and then becoming a parent, it's like, holy cow, my parents actually Did things a lot better than I gave him credit for and knew what they were talking about a lot more often than I thought they did but sometimes you just have to learn through your own experience and process But I never think it's too early to just kind of identify.
Speaker: other meaningful parts of your life that are fulfilling to you that have nothing to do with you as an athlete. That's awesome. So another part, and I would love to. have a conversation about this part too. we We were. I gave my band out today, actually ah my um eyes up, do the work band. So we try to teach athletes that.
Speaker: It's great to win games. It's great to be a great athlete and you learn a lot of lessons by striving to become an incredible athlete. But because of that attention that's given you as an athlete, you're put in a unique position to help and lift other people. And so we have ah our phrase is eyes up, do the work.
Speaker: Eyes up, look for people who need you. in the community, in your school, in the hallway, in your own family. And then do the work to help and lift other people around you to not just attract attention to yourself. but to seek to bless people around you instead of just impress people around you.
Speaker: What impact? Do you feel like it has with those athletes that make that switch that realize that sports not only is are fun? and Give me these incredible opportunities. But it also puts me in a position where I can help and lift other people. And then you go about trying to do that. What?
Speaker: What impact does that have? On there. mental health of an athlete who makes that. that switch in their brain to think outward. Yeah, I think it has a massive impact. and I think it's something that's so important. and Something that I think the the coaches at BYU and the administrators at BYU try to do a good job of, and I also try to do a good job of it too, of helping these.
Speaker: athletes understand that because of... They're. social status and their platform that they have. A unique. and remarkable ability to really make a significant impact in the lives of other people.
Speaker: Kalani shared this you know publicly a number of times. but He tells a story about how he was in middle school. and didn't really have a whole lot of friends, just moved from. uh i think tonga and with his family and was going through some family issues and then It was Vaisika Hema who came up to him and just.
Speaker: sat down and had a conversation with him, asked him about his life, about, you know, what he liked and what he was interested in. and You know, he talks about how that that conversation and him taking the time as this, you know.
Speaker: stellar all -star BYU football player. just changed his whole trajectory of life. And so I think that. Um, having people that are not only delivering that message, but then living it themselves and showing the power of service and giving back and using your platform for good.
Speaker: is... Um, a great way to get these young athletes to kind of see beyond themselves and beyond their own individual struggles or challenges that they might be experiencing. And the best way to kind of get outside of your own head and thinking about your own issues is to go serve other people and to do things for others and make a big impact. And then you realize.
Speaker: You know, it's it's not always just about me. It's about kind of the impact that I can make. And it doesn't mean that they have to or that they should, but it is. You know, one of my favorite quotes is with great power comes great responsibility. and Athletes nowadays have more power than ever.
Speaker: and I think that does come with a lot of responsibility. and People use it wisely and sometimes people don't. maximize it but i I do think that. It's such a cool.
Speaker: opportunity for these athletes to give back and to make a difference. And it not only benefits the person receiving it, but it also benefits the person doing it. I mean, when's the last time you did a random act of service for someone and you didn't end up feeling way better about yourself? and you know, knowing that you made an impact on someone else's day. So it's, it's a two way street and it's a cool thing.
Speaker: Yeah, I remember doing some youth. camps, you know, where you'd go as college players and you'd And sometimes it even made me grateful for my own gifts because it's easy.
Speaker: As you move up levels, to almost become unappreciative of the gifts and opportunities that you have. You know, when, for me, when I was playing little league, i It was so easy to be successful.
Speaker: pony, it became a little harder. Right. That high school. a little harder. And now I got an opportunity to play college baseball and it's easy to walk there. And be like, oh my gosh, I stink. Like these guys here. are incredible. They're huge.
Speaker: They're older. And. And then you go do a ah little camp for kids and you realize, yeah, there's one or two kids that have the gifts. that I had at that age.
Speaker: And then there's like 30 other kids that would give. anything. for those gifts. So there's so many things when we reach outside of ourselves and start.
Speaker: start helping other people. It seems to have a positive impact on our own mental outlook. which has a positive impact on our on our performance even, and the way we're able to help other people.
Speaker: And so. Well, Braden, anything else? Knowing that. Athletes and parents and coaches will hear this. Anything that you've experienced that you're like, you know, with this. platform that I have, there are some Something I would like to say to parents and athletes, anything that is on your mind that we haven't asked you?
Speaker: yeah i mean I think that you kind of just alluded to it with just... you know, perspective and keeping things in proper perspective and and realizing that for youth sports, I mean, it's. For a long time, it was about just giving kids something to do and having fun and competing. And I feel like it's kind of turned into...
Speaker: just a lot of combativeness, if that's even a word, instead of just like what it was. intended to be, which is to be ah a joyous thing where you can learn a lot of life skills and learn how to work on a team and all those different things. and so I think keeping in mind that.
Speaker: Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's... cool to have kids that are really talented in sports and then I have an opportunity to go play at the next level. and but But also realizing that not everyone's going to do that. And it really is about.
Speaker: For... competing for the sake of the joy of the sport. Um, and and learning a lot of great life lessons along the way without having to be the next you know Jerry Rice or...
Speaker: Saquon Barkley or you know whoever it is so you're trying to to be. um And then, yeah, so I would just say try to keep it fun. Um, And then...
Speaker: if you If you ever want to. reach out and talk to me. I'm i'm happy to talk to you. anybody about any of these things so if you're a parent or an athlete or anything else like please feel free to reach out to me on my instagram that's probably the best way to do it um and And I'm happy to. engage in a conversation because I wouldn't be in this position if I didn't have a lot of people helping me and supporting me along the way.
Speaker: And one of the things I strongly value just personally is being able to give back. um but i And I view. Being able to have conversations like this is a way to help give back and help make even just a small impact on the life of someone else. And that's ah a win for me.
Speaker: So. Well, that's awesome. You've mentioned that a number of times. I could tell that's something that's important to you. just you know, you've learned these lessons along the way. We all look back and Wish we could go take our 18, 19 -year -old self and say, hey. just Let me tell you a few things and listen, but sometimes life just has to teach us those lessons, you know. and and ah But then to learn those lessons and want to give back is is awesome. and
Speaker: And we appreciate you taking the time, Brayden. to give back and to share some of that wisdom you've picked up along the way. um Some of the things you shared today are just very...
Speaker: Helpful. to to young people i mean everything you've shared but there are a few things here that have will just resonate so well with our audience and and help us change.
Speaker: that perspective. One thing you said there at the end. Um, We had Ella Ballstead on. She played soccer at BYU. I don't know, little.
Speaker: about a decade ago, but maybe a little less. She was talking about her own parents and she said, I'm grateful. that my parents realized that sports.
Speaker: We're a... tool. to shape their kids. Instead of... Like. something to get attention for themselves and I thought about that a lot, that sports are a tool.
Speaker: And you don't have to be the best kid on the team. or even have prospect of playing in high school or college to learn the lessons of sports and so i love that keep it fun and let them learn the lessons that come naturally from sports and so And anyone who wants to reach out to you, just Instagram is at Braden Brown.
Speaker: Yeah. it's It's at Dr. Braden Brown, because I guess when you sound more official, then you you seem more legit. But yeah, at at Dr. Braden Brown, just my name. Awesome.
Speaker: Awesome. Well, Braden, thank you so much for taking the time today to. to join the especially for athletes podcast and for everyone listening We hope you enjoyed this episode. Share it with people.
Speaker: It would be a blessing to hear it. And keep your eyes up. Do the work. Thank you for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. To learn more about a specialty for athletes organization, get a copy of our book, The Sport Light. or to bring our program to your team, school, business, or organization, visit us at especiallyforathletes .org.
