Transcript
Speaker: Music
Speaker: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Able Voices Podcast. I'm Dr. Rhoda Bernard, founding managing director of the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education and the assistant chair of the Music Education Department at Berklee College of Music.
Speaker: And I am proud to present this podcast featuring disabled artists and arts educators. We are inviting artists with disabilities to be guest hosts with the Able Voices Podcast.
Speaker: Today, you'll meet our next guest host, Jillian Raquet. Jillian Raquet is a New York City-based nonprofit arts administrator, educator, and vocalist with more than a decade of experience in the nonprofit arts and cultural sector.
Speaker: And as an artist with low vision, Jillian is deeply committed to creating more inclusive pathways in the arts. Her work is closely closely connected to the Filamino M. D'Agostino Greenberg Music School, a community music school for the blind and visually impaired, where she began as a student in 2012 while studying musical theater at Marymount Manhattan College.
Speaker: Through her work there, Jillian collaborates with fellow artists with vision loss and is dedicated to expanding meaningful opportunities for artists of all ages and abilities.
Speaker: Jillian's professional background includes positions at leading arts organizations such as TADA Youth Theater, Theater Development Fund, Philadelphia Theater Company, and A Class Act New York, where she developed expertise in arts education, outreach, and program development.
Speaker: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Able Voices podcast. My name is Jillian Requet, and I'm super excited to be your guest host. If you didn't hear my introductory episode, I'm a New York-based singer with low vision who works with the Philemon M. D'Agostino Greenberg Music School.
Speaker: a community music school for the blind and visually impaired. I'd love to introduce you to my next guest, Sophia Cheyenne. Sophia Cheyenne is a New York-based multidisciplinary artivist, teaching artist, and creative access consultant.
Speaker: As a proud indigenous woman with dwarfism, she believes deeply in amplifying the voices and stories of disabled peoples through art and storytelling. Sophia is the co-chair of the Dwarf Artists Coalition, steering committee member of Cultural Accessibility and NYC, and proud advisory board member of the National Center for Disability and Pregnancy Research.
Speaker: Sophia has always invested her advocacy and artistry together to challenge societal norms, combat ableism, and break barriers. Welcome, Sophia. So thrilled to have you on the podcast.
Speaker: Thank you so much, Jillian. I'm thrilled to be here as well. I've heard some episodes already, and it's just really cool to get deep into the artist land in this world. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: Yeah. So let's start with your story as an artist. How did you get started? And how did you, from there, how did you get to where you are today?
Speaker: Great. Thank you. if if it's okay with you, was going to start with a visual description as well, just in case that's useful to anyone. Absolutely. I am, and as she's mentioned, an Indigenous woman, mixed race woman with dwarfism.
Speaker: And I have um brown curly hair to my shoulder. I'm sitting in the corner of my dining room where behind me you see a window. Yeah.
Speaker: And I'm wearing my Atta Bay wood earrings today. Yeah, and I hail from New York, Hicksville, New York, which is a suburb of Long Island, which is the unceded lands of the Algonquin speaking tribes.
Speaker: And yeah, so that's a visual description of myself. And oh my gosh, I mean, how do I how do i answer this question? Yeah. But, you know, I have been performing since I'm three years old.
Speaker: I started in dance and I did everything in dance. I danced seven days a week. I did rehearsals. I did competitions. We traveled all over. I had rhinestones in my hair, you know, the whole works.
Speaker: And it was a huge part of my life. And it still is a huge part of my life, although I don't practice like in the studio anymore. But um Dance is a huge part of my beginning. And I also think I wanted to mention it because, you know, dance is one of those places that really taught me to love my body and to embrace the way my body moved. And I was very lucky to be in spaces that were like inclusive and open and didn't like force me to like do moves that i you know my body wasn't able to do.
Speaker: So starting in dance, um I did community theater at a young age. I did theater camps. I went to professional performing arts high school.
Speaker: And so you know Moving from dance to really a performing side, I um i really took it and didn't leave it. you know the fine arts and acting and performing has been like a huge part of my life.
Speaker: And I ended up did getting a degree in fine arts. And also i double majored in psychology. But like fast forward to now, like you said, multidisciplinary artist. I mean, you name it, I do it, basically.
Speaker: And I'm working in theater and I'm also starting to do more films. But I really consider myself an actor and an artist with like a capital a you know, actively pursuing auditioning now. I'm really lucky to have good representation.
Speaker: But I'm a mom. now of two. And so that's the new role that I play. And it makes it hard to travel for shows and stuff. So, you know, that's really where I've turned a lot of my advocacy world and sort of putting a hat on as ah as a consultant these days and working with different productions or artists that are trying to make more inclusive and accessible work.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, I feel like I am an artist because representation matters so much. And I really don't see women with dwarfism as much as I want to, you know, in mainstream media. um So yeah, so I mean, that's sort of a quick snap of my journey as an artist, kind of starting in dance and then getting into the like the performing world.
Speaker: No, that's that's amazing. And I think that's great wanting to see yourself represented. I think that's something that people who aren't disabled, it's something that I don't think they understand how important that can be for us to see someone who you know has the same disability as we do authentically portraying someone that way.
Speaker: Because it is it is so rare. I know every time that there's a blind character on TV, and they're actually a blind person or a visually impaired person, it, it really means something to me to to be able to see that, you know, represented.
Speaker: Yeah, of course. it's It's so important. And I think a lot of us disabled adults um reflect on our younger years and think about the lack of that and and and the stories that did exist or, you know, do like what...
Speaker: what perspective, you know, were they, were they made through or what lens were they made through? So. Absolutely. i mean, it's it's huge. And I have a passion to really bring that authenticity, you know, with, with the dwarfism community specifically.
Speaker: It's just so much skewed right now. Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your experiences as a person and um as an artist with a disability.
Speaker: Yes. Thank you. So like I said, i have a rare form of dwarfism. It's called spondyloepiphyseal dysplasia congenital, S-E-D-C for short, pun intended. um I'm a part-time pain user. I'm a part-time scooter user.
Speaker: I stand four feet, two inches. I've had a lot of orthopedic surgeries. i was born in the early nineties. And, you know, the day I was born, like my parents who are average size, who don't have this lived experience, mean, they did not know that I was going to be a little person.
Speaker: And it was very shocking. And um it took, you know, it took a toll on, on my family, but it was the community that my parents found for me that really, i think, made a difference in my life. And I don't know where I would be without my community.
Speaker: So yeah, like I said, like I have dwarfism. And therefore, you know when I start to pursue this career as an artist and and and tap into the field, noticed quickly that, you know, the roles that have been in the entertainment industry where they have cast people with dwarfism are very stereotypical and an archetype of of who we are. And so,
Speaker: Growing up, you know, it was really hard for me to see myself. And there's a lot of men in the industry as well. There's not a lot of women that have made it. You know, there's a few, Meredith Eaton and Linda Hunt and some amazing young, you know, short-statured women that have that have done some great work. But it's always just really hard to to see that. And so, like, this has been my journey, you know, navigating the ups and downs of this, like, nasty industry. Like, why did I choose this profession? Why?
Speaker: ah you know, because it is so, it is such a corner that my community lives in and people with disabilities are in, in this, in this world. And it's just such a small window of opportunities for people like, so yeah, you know, I was, I wanted to share a quick story that when I was younger and I was in the dance world and i was doing competitions and um there was a competition I was doing,
Speaker: And dance was my life, like I said. And someone, i don't know if it was a judge or if it was a parent or if who it was, but someone did come up to me and was like, you know, you shouldn't pursue this because there's no room for people like you. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And I remember being really shocked by this person. Like up until this point, my mom's like, we're going to do competition. We're going to get these awards. We're going to just keep growing. and If this is your passion, like this is what we're doing.
Speaker: And so I really wasn't met with like that kind of upfront, like ableism or ignorance, what have you. And and I was a young, I don't remember how old I was, but I was pretty young. And so like, I kind of like,
Speaker: Buried that deep down and didn't think about it for a long time. And my parents, like growing growing up, they exposed me to a lot of movies with people with dwarfism and they were, you know, representation again, right? Like it didn't matter what the context was, but they always wanted to me to see, you know, a little person or someone with dwarfism, like if there was a movie and there's a couple, you know, that I remember.
Speaker: The Mighty, or which wasn't cast authentically. And then you have, of course, like your Oompa Loompas, your elves, your leprechauns, a lot of the fantasy and creature genre like um Harry Potter.
Speaker: Yeah. And so, um you know, and then there's movies like Simon Birch that have a real person with dwarfism at the center of it. A beautiful movie, a movie that I think about a lot.
Speaker: but the character dies at the end. Right. And so we have this trope in this industry where people with disabilities um either want to cure their disability or get rid of their disability. And then when you add this layer of like the dwarfism community on top of it, there's just such, there's this like, you know,
Speaker: this really tight corner of roles that are not human, that are aliens or like subhuman, right? And then you have the roles that where there is a real person with dwarfism, but their character does not live. They don't get to see their life.
Speaker: And so like, these are the things that i'm that I'm taking with me, you know, as a child and coming into, as an adult thinking about this profession, i did was like, okay, it's not gonna happen to me. It's not gonna happen to me. it's it's it's it's you know That's just the past and and and the future is different. And I still believe that of course, but really coming into my professional career as an artist, I was very fortunate enough to have friends that have disabilities that invited me in, that invited me into panels, like speaking at panels or listening into panels and just starting growing my community of disabled artists.
Speaker: which empowered me so much, you know, and not just people with dwarfism. I mean, honestly, there was no people with dwarfism. There's more folks with other kinds of disabilities like cerebral palsy or low vision blindness, you know, hard of hearing, so on and so forth.
Speaker: Neurodivergent, all of them. But growing that community was really huge for me. And it kind of pushed me into seeing like, okay, this advocacy that I've been doing my whole life, like in school, and in life, I also should bring with me to like my artistry, you know, and so performing, I've been very lucky to book roles that have really shaped me and change. I would say every single experience I've had has changed me and and helped me grow into the advocate that I am um but I did want to start off with saying that I did one of my first shows I did was called the Lilliput Truth this was like my first real professional like off off Broadway and it's based on a true story of a family of little people a family of pseudo echondroplasia dwarves that survived the holocaust
Speaker: And I played the youngest member of this family of seven dwarves, by the way. but um And her name was Perla. And she was a real person. And I read her book and this musical that was made by a student um at, I'm going to forget the college's name right now, but um Gabby Fulbann wrote this musical and playing Perla changed my life. Playing Perla Ovitz changed my life because I met someone in history that was like me, a female,
Speaker: little person and their family were artists. They performed in troops around Romania and Germany. And, ah you know, it's an amazing story. The Ovitz story, if you've never heard of it, please look it up. That's the movie I want to make one day is about the Ovitz family.
Speaker: Anyway, so, you know, Perla was that role that really changed me that said, you know, if Perla can do it, in World War two and, you know, live to tell her story.
Speaker: i can do this. And really it did. it changed me forever. And so i I, pursued acting for a while before being a mom. And before COVID, I was traveling a lot. I was booking shows. um I booked guys and dolls with theater under the stars where I played big Julie, which was so much fun, but also,
Speaker: was this really tough experience for me as an actor because what happened was the director had this brilliant idea to cast a dwarf as the what was supposed to be the like tallest or biggest character in the show, like body wise.
Speaker: And so a little bit of it was like, this balance between what are we doing with this moment? Is it a joke? Is it a gimmick? Is it a shock factor? Because, you know, in in the show, if you know what, Big Julie kind of like reveals themselves at one point and is like this tough gangster.
Speaker: Love the role. But it was hard because we found ourselves in this position of like reimagining something. And to be quite honest, and I don't I don't really care. Whoever's listening to this is that, you know, some of the principal cast of that show made it very difficult for me to do my work because they, I believe were threatened by changing what this story could be.
Speaker: And so that's one of my early experiences. And so, I advocated it a lot in that space. Theater Under the Stars was a wonderful theater to work for. And I taught a class with young people and it was great.
Speaker: Then, you know, I booked Richard III at the Shakespeare Theater Company and I played Lady Mayor or the mayor, who wasn't a lady, but, you know, gender bending of roles and things.
Speaker: And that was also this moment where like my character kind of comes in an act two and just like shocks everybody. And so i was I was getting these roles that were really significant in the story and seeing how like the director and the company is trying to navigate like this sort of new way of looking at something, but not being able to do it.
Speaker: Like having trouble and struggling and having some tension of like, what is this moment? So as an actor, it was very challenging. um I felt very alone. on the road when I was doing these roles and like surrounded by non-disabled, you know, casts and like everyone, a lot of people meeting amazing friends along the way, of course, but it was just really hard, you know? um And so my advocacy work just slowly started to grow as I continue to work professionally because I noticed that there were gaps and even down to, i need a command hook in my dressing room, please. Or can we move
Speaker: the microwave to this table, right? Like those sorts of things as well. Absolutely. I just always had to advocate for myself. And I literally have had to have like a conversation with about my access needs to many people in a production, to many departments, like not just the director and the stage manager, you know, but everybody.
Speaker: And so I guess to kind of cap this particular question, just to say that like working and then really like realizing like, okay, we need to make our own stories. We need to create our own work. We need to do, we need to do our, so there's not, these roles that exist are okay.
Speaker: And I will always say, that the Oompa Loompas, the elves, the creatures, the leprechaun, those are my roles. Okay, don't CGI me, don't CGI my community. Like, you know what I mean? Like, these are the roles for my community. And they, yes, are they riddled with ableism? And do we have a lot of work to do? Yes, but they are there. And they matter to the history of where we are going, where we are.
Speaker: And so just want to say, like, from an LP perspective, I do think like I for for a while I actually was like, oh, I disrespect everybody in the industry that gets in a costume and doesn't doesn't do the work. You know, i i was like that for a little bit, but I'm not I'm not like that anymore. I don't feel that way. I respect everybody's choices about how they navigate the industry.
Speaker: And so I started to make my own work. And. started to make my own little films. I was part of the Disability Film Challenge for a few years, which was started by a little person, Nick Novicki, also who is a comedian and an actor. And I wanted to mention that Little People of America, which is the national nonprofit for people with dwarfism, was started by Billy Barty, who was an actor.
Speaker: So there's a lot of actors with dwarfism that have have started those seeds of advocacy for our community. And it's really worth mentioning. So the disability film challenge is this awesome competition, short film challenge. And so I made a few short films and they were about my experience as a woman,
Speaker: with dwarfism in the industry, auditioning or commenting on the reality TV show franchise, like all that kind of stuff. And, you know, I just started to make my own work. And that really, that's really changed a lot for me. But my advocacy and my artistry have like always been linked.
Speaker: There's just no way to see it without it connected in some way. i've I've brought that, you know, my dwarfism to every project that I've ever been in.
Speaker: I have to say, you know looking at your work, the thing that stood out to me was just that you've played pretty much all these strong characters. And I feel like that's awesome that you've been able to make that your brand and and that's what you bring in. And i i loved it. There wasn't like an Oompa Loompa in sight. It was you know all these strong, funny, powerful people.
Speaker: when I was watching your reel, it was, that was like my biggest takeaway, I think. Yeah. Thank you so much for saying that. Yeah. And I know you talked a little bit about um your, you know, dance education and how ah you were lucky enough for that to be a more accessible environment for you. But can you tell us a little bit more about the education you received, how you studied and how you continue to learn today?
Speaker: Yes, absolutely. i am a lifelong learner. i love being a student. I want to just be in school all the time, which is a problem. Um, I need to like live life, but I do. And like I said, I've really, as far as the actor training, like I've really been doing it forever.
Speaker: And so I went to a Catholic school for elementary school for 10 years. Um, me um Yeah, and and it was fine. It was good. It was a little socially isolating for me. I think that at the end of the day, my parents made a great decision putting me in the school because I had a lot of safety and like...
Speaker: I wouldn't say the best accommodations per se, like they tried their best and all that, but, you know, I, I was, I was safe and some, you know, in other schools where you don't have as many eyes or adults, like being a really small person in like your student body, it's dangerous, you know?
Speaker: I think about that with my son all the time. But I took the leap and went to public school for high school. And I went to the professional performing arts school, which is basically the smaller version of LaGuardia, if you know New York City performing arts schools. And we are the real fame school, even though other people don't say that.
Speaker: It really was a lovely program, but it was not an accessible building. I had to climb up four flights of stairs. and I've been there. i I'm thinking, I was thinking of that immediately. need a Julian. So yeah. And it's, it was, it was hard, but I loved it and I was so committed and I really like, I loved it.
Speaker: And, but cut to, you know, being a senior in high school, i actually had a really big surgery on both of my ankles at the time. And it was not that great or a successful surgery. And so it took me out of school for a little while. And I was not really able to like finish my senior year, do my SATs. Like I did end up graduating, but I didn't do as well as I probably would have done if I was like in the school and all that.
Speaker: Which basically, the reason why I'm bringing that up is because it brought me to community college. I started at Kingsborough Community College. And I was going to be a liberal arts major. And I was very depressed. And I was not in a good place because, you know, my body changed a lot. And I wasn't able to do the things I used to do.
Speaker: I was very young. was 18. I was 17. And I thought I was going to have all these surgeries like after college, you know, and it was going to be that way. But it didn't happen that way. Mm-hmm. probably walking around New York City my entire childhood and doing all the things and wear and tear on my body. But when I did go to Kingsborough Community College,
Speaker: I took a leap of faith and I auditioned for a show because I hadn't performed in like a big chunk of time. And I was like, I'm never going to perform again. i remember remember my remember But I ended up getting a awesome role in Arabian Nights. I was Sympathy the Learned. don't know if you know that show by Mary Zimmerman, but...
Speaker: It's like this amazing female scholar that's super smart. Again, a strong character that kind of comes in in one scene, drops the mic and leaves. Right.
Speaker: And I ended up getting into an acting competition from doing that. And so I did this acting competition and I went all the way to the top 10. And I did not actually win the competition. They said that I needed more vocal work.
Speaker: But it really changed it changed my perspective on like what my next step was. And so I ended up going to Brooklyn College after Kingsborough Community College. And I studied bachelor's of fine arts and a double majored in psychology.
Speaker: I thought maybe I was going to do drama therapy, which I kind of do without the degree and in lots of ways. But... after Brooklyn College, um you know, that's a lot of my actor training. But a lot of what has brought me into this advocacy space and within education is then I became a teaching artist. And so I've worked with a lot of New York City-based nonprofits as a teaching artist, bringing dance and theater and sometimes film.
Speaker: I've done scene study. I've done monologue prep. I devised shows with students and just talked to a lot of young people about, you know, theater and things like that.
Speaker: um So that is how I'm continuing to learn today is actually working with a lot of young people now and teaching them the skills of the arts, but also teaching them about life through the arts. um A lot of social justice work I do in these organizations.
Speaker: One of the things I did want to shout out in this podcast episode is um i um i work for the New Victory Theater and they we have created a wonderful free resource that's called The Give Guide.
Speaker: And The Give Guide is this resource for people, teachers, arts educators, or teaching artists that work with students with disabilities and how to make accommodations, you know, within the space, within different like art spaces.
Speaker: activities and things like that. And so it's a huge part of the work that I do now as I continue to like teach and facilitate as I'm helping educators bring accessible arts to young people, which is super exciting.
Speaker: That's awesome. Yeah, that's that's sort of my training per se and sort of where I'm at now in this like consultant facilitator phase. Amazing.
Speaker: So I know you mentioned the new Victory Theater. I know you talked a little bit earlier about being a mom, but can you tell us a little bit more about your current work? Any exciting projects going on right now?
Speaker: Yes. Okay. So, I mean, COVID changed everything, obviously, for a lot of us. and And I did become a mother in 2020. So being a mom, COVID, being home more, I've turned to this consultant hat and, and ah you know, advisory teacher But I've also been like slowly making these films and now they're out in the world to see, which is wild. So I'm an executive producer on The Tallest Dwarf, which just finished a three month run with Indie Lens pop up with PBS.
Speaker: And it was just such a thrill to like be able to bring this documentary to the world for free. The next step is it's going to be at the Superfest Film Festival this September, along with our shorts, which is called How We Look.
Speaker: And basically, the reason why I want to shout this out is this is like my most personal work. And it's really my first big, you know, film films to put out there that I feel like are, you know, my film challenge, disability film challenge films are these short films that...
Speaker: I did over a weekend. And these are films that took years to make, you know, how we look is a collaboration of three stories that were created by a group of performers with dwarfism. And so we did workshops, we kind of like workshop material, and then figured out these are the three stories you want to tell.
Speaker: And it's just, you know, really the beginning of my work, I hope, but The Tallest Dwarf and How We Look are two films that speak specifically to the dwarfism community and even how we are seen in the history of arts and entertainment and medicine, as well as like in society. So those are the two films that are out. um Please like follow me to find out where they'll be screening and things like that.
Speaker: But hopefully, you know, everyone will see them one day. um and and as far as consulting i am working on this new musical called freak the mighty and it's really exciting it's um it's based on a book that's called freak the mighty that was made into a movie in the late 90s where they did not authentically cast the lead as someone with dwarfism but they're reimagining it into a musical and i'm supporting the producing team and the creative team on like how to make it as accessible, but also as authentic as possible.
Speaker: And I also do, like I said, i talk i teach a lot of young people. And so I have a BOCES certified program here in Long Island. I go to the different Long Island schools and I talk about my experience with dwarfism, you know, or um I'm trying to like rebrand it into this sort of access ambassador program where I really want to help young people learn about access through the arts.
Speaker: And so that's sort of my goals right now in the current work that I'm doing. It's a lot. A lot of hats. Mom of two. You know, we're just trying to do it all. But um all very impressive. that's That's very, very, very awesome. so my one of my final questions is what advice would you give to a young artist with a disability? Sigh.
Speaker: It's like, this is all the work that I'm doing right now, you know, is like taking care of young Sophia. And I feel like if I were to give a young artist with a disability some advice, I would say that like,
Speaker: If art and the arts field is your passion, just know that there are so many places that you can live within the arts field. You know, there's so many departments within production, curation. I mean, from museums to film and TV, like all of it, you know, find where you fit, find where your people are that listen to you and that bring you in um instead of call you out.
Speaker: But also, you know, you're not alone. Like we are not alone. We are all here. So you have to find your community. Community is so important. If I were to give any young person with a disability, whether they were an artist or not, it's like a community is the key. And, you know, having that, knowing that there's other people that have a similar experience as you can really go a long way.
Speaker: um Yeah, absolutely. i i said it but during the last episode, but that seems to be all of a common thread ah between a lot of us is that community is everything.
Speaker: It's really life-changing for sure. So you have obviously told us about all of these exciting projects. So where can our audience follow you online for more information about your work and ah to find out where we can check out these projects?
Speaker: Okay. um Thank you. um So the tallest dwarf does have a website, the tallest dwarf.com. And you can find out more about the feature length documentary there. My website is www.sofiashayenne.com. Sophia S O F I Y A C H E Y E N N E. And that's my social media handles as well.
Speaker: I'm not great at social media, but I'm trying really, really hard to get better at it. It's just, Being a mom has really made my capacity so much smaller, but it's so important for my work. That's why I'm very grateful for this podcast and this opportunity to talk to you because it's just important to like stay relevant. So thank you for making this space, but you can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, um Twitter.
Speaker: My website is the same as my name. um And if you want to also follow the Dwarf Artist Coalition, That's the work that I do within the Little People of America nonprofit.
Speaker: And like I said, i am a Give facilitator with the Give Guide through New Victory. And we are trying to drop a podcast this fall, which will be like an experience to kind of share the resources that the website is talking about. It's going to be called Give Out Loud.
Speaker: So shout out to the podcast that I will be hosting come up. yeah And hopefully um anyone that's listening will want to listen to that or just share it because the resources are great. They're built from people with disabilities and apparent and non-apparent disabilities. um it's really It's really a wonderful resource that I hope gets more visibility.
Speaker: so That's awesome. i I definitely will be checking it out. I can't wait to listen to your podcast. Yeah, it's weird. I'm like, okay, now I'm a podcast host? What am I? Oh my gosh. Just another hat. Another hat. Another hat to put on.
Speaker: Yeah. No, but thank you for this space, really. Yeah. It's a joy. Thank you.
Speaker: Able Voices is a production of the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education, led by me, Dr. Rhoda Bernard, the founding managing director. It is produced by Daniel Martinez Del Campo.
Speaker: The intro music is by Kai Levin, and our closing song is by Sebastian Batista. Kai and Sebastian are students in the arts education programs at the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
Speaker: If you would like to learn more about our work, find us online at berkeley.edu slash B-I-A-A-E or email us at B-I-A-A-E at berkeley, that's L-E-E dot E-D-U.
