Transcript
Scott Hill: Hi, good evening. and Welcome to another episode of UK Tri Chat with myself, Scott Hill, Head Coach for Tri Wolf Coaching. I'm pleased to say that we've got a co -coach on the show tonight, one that's currently started working with myself, Jason, also now a coach with TriWolf Coachings. Welcome to the podcast this evening, Jason.
Jayson: Thank you for having me
Scott Hill: It's a pleasure. We've spoken before many times and obviously we've done one podcast previously. but we're kind of just developing now and the topic we're actually going to talk about tonight is um Am I actually good enough for a coach? And this is something that's coming up quite a lot with athletes that we currently both coach and people we're speaking to as well. So we wanted to cover this topic and really... so put it to bed and and talk about coaching and athletes and what's good and what's bad. and I think it's really important topic.
Scott Hill: to go through based on how many people have actually taken up this bought right now. Um. So. I guess we can start with yourself. What made you want to become a coach, Jason?
Jayson: I think for me, the biggest reason... for wanting to get into coaching was actually to give something back to the sport. I think we touched on it in my last podcast. so Everyone knows about why I got into triathlon and how much it helped me.
Jayson: from a mental health standpoint. And now I think the way for me from a coaching point of view was it was about giving back to the sport and helping people along with their journey. I know how important it was. And one of my biggest mistakes I made when I first started was probably not having a coach because I spent the most part of my first six months of my journey injured.
Jayson: um And that was because I did too much too soon. And it's because I didn't have a clue what I was doing So I was just going. from uh nothing all out thinking I'm training for an Ironman.
Jayson: I have to do an Ironman pretty much from the get -go. And all the, that you know, when I went out for a 5K, it was best effort. day one and every session seemed to be like that and i didn't really know the split between how much running how much swimming i knew i had 180 kilometers to do on the bike So when I went out for a bike ride They were long bike rides.
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: all the time because I thought I'm preparing for a long day. So there was no real structural plan behind it.
Scott Hill: Sorry.
Scott Hill: just saying you touched on that there was something that i'd probably highlight as you said you used to go out and just do sessions too hard all the time and that's something that i've come across quite a lot with coaching as well over the years bearing in mind i've gone through all of british triathlons coaching courses you know previously i've been the head coach for three triathlon clubs one of them being royal air force triathlon and also the performance director for that as well um and then currently setting up tribal triathlon coaching but
Scott Hill: That's something I see quite a lot as athletes feel that they have to go and do sessions and finish the session absolutely in the bin when in fact you don't need to be absolutely in the bin on every session. It's quite dangerous and potentially why many people get disheartened, get injured and fall out of love with the sport.
Jayson: Absolutely. I think you spend most of your time doing it that way injured. and then therefore you probably don't even get to to race day or certainly in my example I went and did the race with a stress fracture.
Jayson: as a result of overtraining.
Scott Hill: So what do you think? For you, what would be what's your favourite part of watching and working with athletes?
Jayson: Seeing someone... develop from absolutely Nothing. as in They struggle to even run a 5K. to completing whatever distance that is and it's mostly 70 .3 but seeing someone achieve that goal and I talk about the goal of just achieving the 70 .3. A lot of people talk about the time.
Jayson: that they want to achieve in it, but actually just achieving the event and finishing the event. is the greatest achievements and seeing them go i don't want to say from couch to 5k but it like for literally almost from couch to 70 .3 and just seeing that journey and then seeing as time progresses.
Jayson: how they start believing in themselves. and as we were saying just before like in my own training how i feel at this point where i am now for three four weeks outside of her race i'm starting to feel strong and seeing that in people where they start to tell you actually i feel strong i feel healthy i feel ready for that race and as a as a coach That's the best.
Jayson: that's probably the most rewarding feeling you can get because you've got them to that place.
Scott Hill: Yeah, I think so. i've you know People look at me and probably think I'm quite a straight -faced person. um my emotions although i am quite an emotional person my emotions aren't on my sleeve and they can be But I've coached many people now over the years. and If I go back to my first experiences of triathlon and...
Scott Hill: and what I achieved that. i didn't think were possible that actually became possible very early on you know and and completing an ironman and racing world champs at both distances that i might offer um I...
Scott Hill: I cried when I first... across the finish line and i was like well is that the emotion of Absolutely. like fragged you've got nothing left you're just so you know depleted in the emotion of crossing that line and i guess it is that and in a lot of ways that you've put so much heart and soul into it for training and you've got to that finish line it's no more goal but also a sense of achievement, I find that.
Scott Hill: crossing that line and I remember the first time across kona in fact i filmed myself for the last mile because i was that there was an offer on with gopro at the time and if you bought a grow i think it was you if you were one of the first 10 people to buy a gopro in kona then they would hand it to you for the last mile on so they track you and they give it you and i've still got this footage of me doing the last mile with a gopro on And i was I was talking and I was you know filming it, but I was actually quite emotional.
Scott Hill: at the same time. and It was is very strange. But I've... being at races with athletes. that I've coached to that point and I've watched them cross the line and start to cry.
Scott Hill: And it's made me cry. And that's what I love about the sport. It's that emotion side that... I've got them. to a point that they've achieved something they thought not possible. and it's made them that emotional.
Scott Hill: that they felt the same as I have, if that makes sense.
Jayson: yeah Absolutely.
Scott Hill: and i understand i understand that feeling and i take a lot of pride And. athletes that allow me to share that with them as well. So that's... um
Jayson: Yeah, you feed off their energy. you just I think the next... one on that is probably the biggest one because most people or that I've certainly spoken to is the swim. And everyone... panics over that swim.
Jayson: And then. You get them from day one. to actually getting them onto that race and they complete that swim and come out of that swim and you can feed off their energy because keep buzzing just to get out of the swim but you can see and you remember as a coach seeing them develop from day one all the way through to that race and how they've come across and like you say i mean you you get emotional for them just because watching their success i think it's for those reasons mainly that coaching was just kind of almost tight.
Jayson: The final piece of the puzzle for me within triathlon.
Scott Hill: Yeah, it is fantastic and I guess that's... The misconception of it all is, you know am I good enough? to have a coach Um, Every athlete, regardless of ability, is 100 % good enough to have a coach. And it doesn't matter whatever phase of the journey you're on, whether you're new to the sport, you're developing, or you know you're you're reaching milestones and PBs and podiums, whatever it else it is.
Scott Hill: every single one of those people out there doing in the sport is an athlete. And they are 100%. Good enough to have a coach. i think that's really
Jayson: Absolutely. I think that is for me the biggest. thing when it comes to coaching is that obviously we talked about the misconceptions but People. all have different goals.
Jayson: And. I think when it that certainly within the last. coming on 10 years now that I've been doing triathlons now. You speak to people and they think you have to be going for either a CONUS position or a podium, let's say a podium.
Jayson: to to be coached. or professional. And I would actually argue that. at that level you probably you know enough. if you are If you're in a top age group, you probably know enough to get yourself there. I know that might be controversial, but equally, I think at the same time, it's those new people, brand new in, like me, when I first started. that doesn't know anything about triathlon. or just swim, bike, or run. as an individual sport in in any form.
Jayson: They're the ones that actually need the coaches. because they don't know what they're doing. when you get to that level of Where you. probably chasing the podiums. you kind of have a bit more of a clue on what you're actually doing You just need that coach to push you a little bit further to get you onto that boat.
Jayson: and this is where i say it might be a bit controversial i'm not saying they don't need a coach But I'm just saying they got a bit more of a clue. And it's actually... those people that think they don't need a coach, they probably actually do.
Jayson: When they say don't need it, they think they're not worthy of a coach. And they actually are the ones that probably need the coach. support the most.
Scott Hill: think I think it's also important that athletes... when they are looking or if they're looking is making sure they're picking someone that is retro retroable is that the right word? And you know, qualified they've got experience everything else as well we've got a lot of people like as i said before the market's been like The amount of people entering races, I've just done Ironman at the weekend, and I'm pretty sure 62 % of those people doing the Ironman were first -timers.
Scott Hill: um with so much of that being first time doing a triathlon in some cases as well um but what we're seeing with it is a lot of people are doing events No coaching qualifications, not really any experience in the sport. And all of a sudden they're labelling themselves as a coach. And I think it's really important that I just mentioned that if you are looking for a coach, to make sure that you look for a coach. that has experience. and is qualified to do the right thing.
Scott Hill: The last thing you want to do is have someone that... doesn't really have any experience or understanding of it all and ends up injured and you know six twelve months behind where you want to be um so that's just just a point that i'll labor on and i always do but um yeah
Jayson: Yeah, I think if I can add to that, just... from my own personal experience here as a qualified personal trainer because i see this a lot as well is You've got personal trainers, either training people for marathons.
Jayson: all triathlons. And having done the personal training qualification, they teach you nothing about marathons or triathlons. It's completely different.
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: So go to their personal trainer for strength.
Scott Hill: on
Jayson: for those sports that's Great. But in terms of a program. you need and this is why. when I spoke to you about try wolf it was about okay i need to go and get triathlon qualified because it's completely different.
Jayson: my personal training. even though I have experienced racing. wasn't enough to to give me that credibility and the knowledge needed to train people in triathlon.
Scott Hill: Yeah, i think i think it's um I think it's a really important topic to... to cover and i'm sure we can talk about this much more in depth um because it's it's Close to both of our hearts that one.
Scott Hill: But definitely just ensuring that people are looking for the right coach. a not saying
Jayson: Absolutely.
Scott Hill: looking for. you know us as coaches but making sure you're looking for the right coaches out there Um, So I guess the original topic, am I good enough to for a coach? um
Scott Hill: Again, you know we're seeing athletes now. that are coming from all walks of life. you know that are young. We're seeing more youngsters join the sport. um we're also seeing i mean historically and tend to be a very middle -aged person that took up triathlon but we're seeing a lot more youngsters come through very fit and very fast and in some cases they could be a generational offspring or two generations of their parents.
Scott Hill: on the sport so we're seeing the speed come with that as well but I think it's really important. you know We understand that. um It doesn't matter how old you are either. You know you could be...
Scott Hill: You know? at the very early age of your journey or you know 18 19 20 year old but you could also be at the other end of the scale And again, I coach someone at 63 years old. And it's still doing Ironman distance triathlon.
Scott Hill: total different ends of the spectrum and it goes back to the point that you said before as well is um It doesn't matter. Hi. fit and fast you are it's making sure you're getting the right coach for the for the job that you're trying to do.
Scott Hill: and and vulnerability. vulnerabilitability it's um It's there, it's individual. You said individual, I think that you said before.
Jayson: Yeah, absolutely.
Scott Hill: So... You know, you said there that. This is your reason for taking up coaching. um and enhancing on what you already know not just within the sport but in within within um rich world and you've touched on strength and conditioning there as well but I'd even go one step further and you've actually gone and learned or you become a sports masseuse as well. uh like myself i've got that qualification but i also think that adds to the value of what you can offer because
Scott Hill: you've now got even deeper knowledge in how the body functions, you know, the muscle systems, cardiovascular system, and everything else. um and it gives you another skill set to your to your bow that you can offer as a coach.
Jayson: yeah and just understanding the importance of recovery because there's so much more to it you know yeah i think people as even coaches they forget it's it's not always about the training And I think if I offer advice to anyone else.
Jayson: or anyone listening in is you know recovery is part of your training. And it's it's equally as important. so Like, again, going back to me as an example in the beginning.
Jayson: I just thought. Do more. because You're doing an Ironman, so you have to train every single day. And actually. as we all know recovery is part of training and that's where you actually take in all your training and come back better. so
Scott Hill: Yeah, and it's just you know absorbing the load of what you're doing. and the stimulus and ensuring that you do recover from that to go again. and again that's something that I tend to see is people get so fixated on need to train more need to train further i need to train harder Well, actually I need to recover from this as well. And and again, you know, was we're looking at products now, recovery is quite... big in the uk i think um
Scott Hill: you go to these expos events you're seeing recovery products and it's not just it's not just nutrition it's you know you're your heat blankets, your... relax boot tight systems massaging saunas hot tubs they're all growing again now and there's other benefits to that type of stuff as well um or something else i was thinking of i can't think
Jayson: Ice baths.
Scott Hill: Okay.
Jayson: It just doesn't stop. And I've got them all. um because we do everything we can can't don't we to just stay injury free so we can keep training
Scott Hill: Yes.
Scott Hill: Yeah. um and it is a case of not wanting to waste. waste that time and recover properly But factoring in recovery. factoring in sessions around certain certain ways to train so you know if you are training heavy on certain days then look for other days to yes still train but let's look at training in a different stimulus in a different way and then align your body to recover and adapt to that so you can go again week in week out Um,
Scott Hill: consistency you know the terminology commonly used throughout all of all of this is consistency um I think within. but consistency is key and within within our previous well I say our previous jobs your previous job my current job um you just say comms is king didn't we um Okay. But obviously consistency is the key to it all. And that's something that I guess.
Scott Hill: coaches can offer people it's the consistency Um, But... It does take... It's a two way communication. um athletes have got to speak you know they've got to hold their hand up and speak out and don't be afraid not to speak out to the coach because i communication is really important.
Scott Hill: um and Again. do see this over the years is it can become very one -sided. where athletes won't speak up and be like you know i don't i don't feel 100 or i've got a niggle They'll just...
Scott Hill: i can't speak i need to push through <unk>s just remembering the need to speak up there as well
Jayson: And that's the whole point of having a coach.
Scott Hill: Okay.
Jayson: That's what we're there for, is to adapt and move things around according to how you feel. We can't guess. how you're feeling in so you need to have that communication
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: and say, and we get it. And I think that is. if I touch on it very briefly is the difference between say someone going and downloading a program through AI and having an actual coach.
Jayson: you know, there's Life there's work. There's children there's everything i mean we we've both got children we've both got a wife a family they There's jobs involved.
Jayson: things happen. So having us. or a coach. someone there that can actually understand that and change your plan accordingly. is super important, but that can only happen.
Jayson: if you ass or letting them know.
Scott Hill: I think you've recently done a post on this, haven't you? on
Jayson: I did. And it's just more to highlight that, yes, I mean, you can put that information into AI, but it's just under someone that actually like. If we take either one of us for an example, because we've got.
Jayson: a family. you know all both work long hours for for our jobs. Bye. That takes its toll. and Does a computer understand what... your day at work is actually like or how you feel after a 10k run of intervals or how you feeling after a race for that matter what should you be doing after that how you should be recovering
Scott Hill: Yep.
Jayson: just tweaking things you know if you walk away with work what should you be doing how can you be doing it so We understand that because we've done it. or a coach would at least understand that and because they've done it so i think that's super important that you can't get from ai But like you say, it's super important.
Jayson: That's it. they are telling and communicating with you so that you can make those adaptions.
Scott Hill: I think... my phone's buzzing away yeah I think it's... I had an athlete ring me up today that I'm coaching at the minute and he was like, you know um Work's got really busy, what do I do? And I was like, okay, let's have a look at the program, you know.
Scott Hill: Like, well, can you do this, this and this? Yeah, that'll work. okay we'll shift that we'll do that but then i've got to move that and it was like he was like brilliant thanks very much uh i mean i kind of had a bit of a conversation about his program last week that he was doing he's like yeah i felt I felt really good on that session, but then on that one, I felt really bad. And then we were having a conversation and he actually, well, this.
Scott Hill: this athlete I coach is also diabetic. so we started delving into that side of stuff was it okay so let's now think about what's happened in the days or the day leading up to that how's your sleep been what food have you been eating and he tracks all this anyway through you know the apps and you know everything he has on his phone and stuff now with with his peaks and troughs with it but um
Scott Hill: AI doesn't do that. You know, you can't have that conversation in that piece there. Well, we can have that conversation, which means. i learned more about him and um it could be you know his working day that some things change so rather than eating how we would properly eat He ended up. like binging on something because he's hungry.
Scott Hill: and it has a spike. um so then that impacts everything else so that's something that you know we build that rapport with each other and have a chat and understand it and likewise he can let me know or this has happened okay but let's look at this this and this you don't get that with with these other ai coaching things and i think that's really important touch that um a coach athlete relationship can be like and should be like as well.
Jayson: Yeah, I agree.
Scott Hill: Yeah. um So I think... you know recovery which we've spoken a little bit about there it's athletes understanding that and we've talked about you know our families and work and stresses and strains of life um Like you mentioned at the very start, every athlete is very different. So it's key to understand and build that rapport with athletes so that you can work with them better.
Scott Hill: Um, And that's something that I know you've been doing recently with athletes you're working with is. building a picture of their lifestyle. and understanding very early on what they've got.
Scott Hill: and then working on that how you can develop that over I don't like the terminology personally, off -season, but... i still think it's an area where athletes can develop massively and then go into that next phase you know if you look at the phases of training and stuff for for training and racing um i know that's something you're working with with your athletes in the minute as we go into the darker months of the UK which tend to be harder for a lot of people.
Jayson: And I think that's again where... As coaches, you rarely come into your own because... I think. you You're having to now motivate and keep people accountable to their programs because they are. I mean, I just take myself for an example. It is harder in the winter.
Jayson: it's it is wet it's dark it's well generally it's wetter most of the time it's it's dark definitely darker it's going to get colder so those early morning runs before work are somewhat harder than what they used to or certainly are now.
Scott Hill: Yep.
Jayson: So. it's now having to motivate them and keep them accountable to what the program is because when we get out of that Doc. wits. stage, which we do in a few months time.
Jayson: then they're ready to build into because it's going to be race season in a couple of months from there You know, if I just think... from for myself i'm straight out of winter into a race so within a month.
Jayson: So the work has to be done in in those times when you don't want to be doing it. So now is the time where you actually, it's not, let's hit the brakes now because it's the end of the season. that build Starts now.
Jayson: And now actually it's when the work has to happen.
Scott Hill: i I always say you know we've all got an little devil on his shoulder he's always there and he's always He's always got an excuse. um but it's whether you choose to accept it here or you're just trying kick him off and carry on. So let's imagine we've got an athlete now that's listening to to us chatting about this. Let's do a 30, 40, 50, whatever age they are.
Scott Hill: um and they've been inspired by people doing triathlon it could have been a family member of family it could have been a friend it could have been something they've seen on social media on tv um And they can swim a bit. you know We tend to see triathletes' weakest discipline is swimming, but they can swim a bit. They can ride a bike.
Scott Hill: and they've done a bit of running in the past. but generally they haven't really. got a clue on how to approach a coach or or what. how that conversation would go. um How do you think? How do you think an athlete should approach that and what sort of things would you talk to them and say to them if someone was to get in touch with you and talk about what can you offer as a coach?
Jayson: I think they just need to whether. They found you on social media or wherever they found you, whether it's at a race and they've come and said hello and they know your coach or they found you online through your website, whatever it is, reach out and just.
Jayson: first say Look. This is what I'm looking to do. Here is my experience. and then the coach take over so if they were reaching out to us what we would do is arrange a call as an example and understand what it is that they're looking to do where are they currently understand the history. What is it that they've done before? So is it?
Jayson: starting from scratches and they've done nothing. They've just been inspired by someone they've seen and they think, do you know what? That's what I really want to do. But they are literally going to go from couch to 70 .3 as an example.
Jayson: Then. we've got to build them right up to have. do they even know I had a swim? If I think, you know. my wife when she did her first sprint distance she had to go for swim lessons. so she actually had to go and see a swim instructor to learn how to to do front crawl. so It might be having to advise someone actually, you need to go learn how to swim first.
Jayson: because they might not be able to swim. It could be a case of we actually need to start building them up to... literally taking them from couch to 5k and then building them up over months. And I think that's really the first point, of course, we would manage those expectations first and set realistic goals first and say, do you know what?
Jayson: if someone were to come to me and say i fancy doing a 70 .3 next year in May time. I'd probably say if you've never done one and you can't swim. that's probably not the most realistic.
Jayson: But could we get you ready for Weymouth next year? That's probably a bit more realistic. and we could build you up to that because we're a year away from that. But it all depends on what the circumstances are. So it's really for us to understand where they are at, what are their goals, and what are they most importantly? I think for me anyway, this and this is genuinely my... own opinion here is What is the goal? because like we said right at the beginning everyone's got their own goals now that might be
Jayson: I know for you if you don't mind me saying that you want to go and get that sub nine So that's a goal that most people like me, I would probably never dream of. my goal for me like the ultimate one would be a sub 10.
Jayson: I think that's within reach for me. But for someone... It might just be. finishing in cut -off time. And that's fine, by the way. because everyone's got a different goal. They might not want to dedicate.
Jayson: their life to triathlon they don't want to triathlons take over their life, they want to make it part of their life, because they've got a goal, they want to tick a box and say, I've done one. And that's fine too, because we've all got different goals.
Scott Hill: are all the same. I wouldn't. And I will say goals do move because it was never my intention. That was never my intention.
Jayson: And absolutely. And that is a good point because. I was only ever supposed to do. one Ironman because it was just on the bucket list and that was it. 10 years later, we're still here.
Scott Hill: And now.
Jayson: So this is so absolutely it it does move. But I think that's the most important starting point is just understand the goal and manage those expectations realistically.
Jayson: towards achieving their goal.
Scott Hill: I think, yeah, and I think it is exactly that. it's helping athletes achieve their goal. but doing it in a way that we're preventing them from making mistakes that could stop that goal from being achieved.
Scott Hill: um You know this. I had so much information out there now, it's ridiculous. Some of it's good, some of it's not so good, some of it's in the grey area, and some of it I... I mean, so. I have to revert or hold myself off from commenting on some stuff because it's absolutely ridiculous.
Scott Hill: But it's just ensuring that people are not making mistakes, you know, their goal is achievable, whatever that goal is, you know, and it can change, like I said. But... ensuring that they're following the right kind of structure to achieve what they're trying to achieve.
Scott Hill: around life around family around their ability Even... you know when i talk about ability even i mean injuries unfortunately are part of pass with some ways.
Scott Hill: You kind of roll the dice, if I may say.
Jayson: Yeah.
Scott Hill: um injuries can and do happen and they'll continue to happen to athletes you know regardless your ability you look at professionals and whatever sports you know there's always injuries and that's part and parcel of it I think what's difficult for athletes to understand is Okay, if we can't...
Scott Hill: swim because you've got a rope cuff issue. we can still cycle and run. but then it's here and what's on your shoulder the little devil that's trying to prevent people who I need, I can't. you kind of lose motivation and that's the thing which i think is good with the coach as well Making sure that things are achievable and making sure that it's individual and viable for those athletes to... to still achieve and if you can't do one discipline for whatever reason because you have got
Scott Hill: um something that's bothering you whatever it could be you know a little calf strain well let's do everything we can do use your expertise in strength and conditioning expertise in sports massage and we can develop in other areas so that we can still aid recovery but Eight.
Scott Hill: the response that when you can bring that discipline back into play There. Yo. not starting from zero it's like you're back in um and i think that's difficult for a lot of our athletes to understand is if they do get an injury some Give up. some quick um And it's...
Scott Hill: The thing is if you do that... you delay recovery and in fact you end up... having to tread over so much of old ground to get yourself back to anywhere near where you were the you know we can still keep their cardiovascular system going.
Scott Hill: regardless of whatever exercise we do and that's important.
Jayson: yeah absolutely and i think if i can just touch on one thing that that You know, at the end of the day, an Ironman, if we... and i ah I know we go on about the Ironman, but that's probably the most, arguably the most popular one that everyone wants to do. but They are expensive.
Jayson: So... And I was. down supporting at weymouth the other um the other or just the other day from sunday and There was a little ah don't i don't know the end result i tried looking it up but it's not released yet but there were a lot of people then.
Jayson: didn't finish the race for whatever reason. It could be injury, it could be through fitness, it could be, and it would be interesting to see what the actual number of people was. And. you invest all that money in going to a race. so Chipper.
Jayson: to prepare properly is super important because they're not cheap. So making sure you go there ready. as best you can. Obviously, there could be a load of things. I've been to a race and not finished it through mechanical issues and etc. Injury, I've had to call it a day.
Jayson: things are out of your control sometimes but you want to give yourself the best chance as well by getting yourself ready.
Scott Hill: Yep. So I think, you know Coaching is more than a training plan.
Jayson: Absolutely.
Scott Hill: Um, I generally don't think coaches If you look at what... Not all, but what most coaches charge in relation to what they're giving. Is. not Not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.
Scott Hill: um It's more than a training plan. You build that rapport with athletes and you know have a better and deeper understanding of everything. you know And this could be... anything and everything going on in their life it could just be a conversation where you are you might not even be talking about.
Scott Hill: Um... the program or the sessions they're doing, you know you could have something else that's deeper and meaningful that you're actually supporting athletes with. um and and that's kind of In some ways.
Scott Hill: a lot of athletes do the sport Two. manage. other things and it could be their escape for example um you know and i definitely say i'm one of those that Exercise.
Scott Hill: is my time to escape from the stresses and strains of everything else and that's you know that's where i clear my head um and I think that's what will always be a part of me and that's why I enjoy training so much.
Scott Hill: Um,
Scott Hill: But what you know how I guess Well, we touched on it. What does an athlete already get? when they're working with a coach. um I think they get so much more than... our training program. I really do um and it labors onto what we've both said is it's not all about the plan it's not all about What an AI.
Scott Hill: program would spit you out in so much deeper and more meaningful done that. Um,
Scott Hill: So yeah, I think it i think it's you know just... I think the original point is Am I good enough to have a coach? Um... I think it's really important that every athlete out there understands that yes you are regardless of what what you're doing.
Scott Hill: Um, And maybe think about that long -term plan. And you touched on 70 .3 % if someone was looking for on the early in the year. um I guess with that...
Scott Hill: many athletes or in fact in fact winter mumps is you know we've touched on that many athletes may have other goals. Within that goal. So for example, you could have someone that wants to do a 70 .3 in 2027.
Scott Hill: But within the next... four, five, six months they also might want to achieve a half marathon. um So how do you think you would factor that into? into training over the winter months.
Jayson: The thing is that again at all. depends on The background, where are they at? And. What is their previous history? I think definitely. a half marathon would be.
Jayson: 100 % within scope. because that is something that I would say it's a good starting point a challenging starting point that you can get them ready for.
Jayson: it's going to require depending again where they're if they're going from 5K to half marathon. It's going to be. a lot of work. But they can do it.
Jayson: They can get there. Are they going from couch to half marathon? I would say within that timeframe, they could get there too. but they're going to have to do the work. Out. Job. is to make sure that we progressively build them up. to get them ready for that race. Are they going to go there and Run a sub.
Jayson: 1 .30 half marathon? Probably not. They might do. We don't know what cyber running genetics they have in their legs. But equally, I think it it all comes down to the individual's previous background, where they are at currently, and ultimately.
Jayson: how disciplined they are to use the phrase you would is how consistent they are going to be in their training, because that's what it comes down to. you can be ready for that race as long as they we can't manage that part we can Help. guide them to it we can put the plan together but ultimately They need to execute it.
Scott Hill: Yeah. And that brings me nicely up.
Jayson: And that's what it comes down to.
Scott Hill: Brings me nicely onto athlete ownership and time management. um you know no i do have a job i like to exercise and train a lot and quite often now people say to me you Have you actually got a job, Scott?
Scott Hill: um like Yeah, yeah if I'm just really good at time management. And that was my answer. um to which i just got i just got a thumbs up you know it was on it was on facebook or something like that and someone else someone else commented on it was like yeah he's not wrong um But...
Scott Hill: I think that's something that athletes struggle with as well is is his having ownership. Um, Again, the little devil on your shoulder. And athletes have also got to take ownership. And and I've had it in the past where athletes have got in touch. but but ah Well...
Scott Hill: I can't do this because of this or... Or what do you think? I'm going to do this. I might. You know, you're an adult here. You need to make a decision yourself. I can't. you know.
Scott Hill: I'm not going to spoon feed you. I'm not going to force you to go and do every session. I can give you the tools and you know everything else and we can move things around so it fits your lifestyle and everything else. but um sometimes it comes down to athletes understanding that they also need to manage themselves sometimes. you know, pull the pants up and go.
Scott Hill: I'm just gonna get out the door. 9 times out of 10. people well i say nine times out of ten people don't none of us feel like training sometimes sometimes you've just got to go right out
Jayson: Absolutely.
Scott Hill: four o 'clock five o 'clock six o 'clock, whatever it is I'm gonna go and do that run. And when that clock gets to that. you're out the door. um and force yourself right put your kit on off you go five ten minutes in you know you generally you're okay with it it's just that mindset of switching yourself on and getting on and doing it um
Scott Hill: So I guess that's really ah important for athletes to understand is time management. Um, And... having a bit of ownership of what they're doing as well
Scott Hill: with um okay you kind of touched on it as you know you can give people the plan i guess it's the road map as such you know you can give them the road map but it's up to them to to get from point point A to point B is another one. And that's something I learned.
Scott Hill: Nice. as someone who's been in the military for 25 years. It used to very much be go and get that done I won't swear but Just go and effing get it done. and and you have to just go and get it done. And things have changed over the years and it was something, you know, obviously I got brought up in that environment very early on, as as you did.
Scott Hill: um and that's the way it was and he just did it you just went and did it you know you didn't didn't argue you might not have enjoyed it but you just went and did it And it's changed so much over the years. and now And it kind of fallen into the coaching realm as well as.
Scott Hill: okay well this is what we need to do or this is what you need to do We're now at point A. That is point B. How you get there is kind of... That's your own sort of athlete ownership.
Scott Hill: um and and a good analogy to use would be you know We might have to drive to Wales, for example. you could take a totally different route to get in there than what I would.
Scott Hill: And that is okay. That's fine. Do that. But as long as you achieve what we're trying to achieve. um then you will see progression.
Jayson: Absolutely.
Jayson: I think another point with having a coach as well is... Amen. incompletes opposite to what we've just been discussing is actually stopping them sometimes.
Jayson: from doing too much. And. Only because I'm guilty and I think... It was because I had a conversation with you recently. i was thinking of doing an additional race. that was very close to another race.
Jayson: And. sometimes you just need that someone to say, actually. No. Me. Don't do that because... one maybe it might not i'm not even talking having it being an a race or an ab race whatever and for those that don't know your a race being your priority race and like the one you're going for but Sometimes.
Jayson: that race just before. another race could ruin that. one so i was thinking of doing a marathon two weeks before a 70 .3. now I... would probably be able to do it. But I would be able to do it. but I'd be carrying a lot of fatigue and... ultimately could run the risk of injury.
Jayson: So. It's just not worth it. but I knew that by the way. I needed... You to tell me. No. Because sometimes you just need that someone else to say.
Jayson: That's actually a little bit silly. Um, even though you know the answer already.
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: So I think that's also something a coach can do.
Scott Hill: here
Jayson: that's Or when you start adding in extra sessions, thinking, you know what, I'm feeling good. because you might be on a deload week. or something are you actually starting to feel at peak fitness on a deload week and you're all tapering or you're heading into that and you're starting to feel a little bit too good.
Scott Hill: All right. Yeah.
Jayson: So you think I'll add in an extra session and that coach will step in. and say, hang on. There's a reason why we're doing this.
Scott Hill: I am.
Jayson: And.
Scott Hill: I coach a very good athlete that to start with was very easy to do quite a lot of that where um I felt good so I did an extra. two three four miles it's like there's no point you you get no benefit from doing it feel good finish recover feel good for the next one rather than feel good do a bit too much and then you go into the next session with a bit too much fatigue.
Scott Hill: which then it goes back to that point I mentioned earlier where you're rolling the dice where... if you picked up a niggle ah Straight away I'd be like, well... why Why do you think that happened? Um,
Jayson: And that's, I think, the key points, if I'm sorry, to bring it back up again, where We'll... very different as coaches to say ai whereas where we will look at that fatigue. you know and i think it's fair to say most of us use training peaks and when you look at all all the data that goes through it and that's where you actually ah the difference between having a coach and actually just downloading a plan is your sessions well they certainly should be
Jayson: based on how you are feeling. through what your coach is seeing. not just through a... Go and do this this week. this that week because you might that week just might have hammered you because of whatever reason you just life got in the way and it added to additional fatigue.
Jayson: which then means next week actually we need to pull it back a little bit or actually You took it a little bit easy this week. We could ramp it up a little bit for you here because...
Jayson: And... we can push you a bit more. so It's those things I think that's... where you add that value.
Scott Hill: Yeah. And then you start to understand your body. I mean, I put it in in our in our WhatsApp group and stuff sometimes where... um You know, i say let's say... one week i might do a session i might do the same session a week later But...
Scott Hill: I might not be able to hold the pace the same. um And know what I do is I share my experience with athletes because I because i know that. We are all different. We're not robots.
Scott Hill: some days will feel better than others some days you know and it And it could be as simple as... You just haven't eaten properly or at the right times or you know you've had a bad night's sleep. It could be as simple something as simple as that. that just outperforms or The weather could be different. You know you could be...
Scott Hill: on a session and the wind might be blowing the opposite direction to what it did last time And that might slow you down. five seconds per kilometer or five seconds per mile whatever you're working but some athletes get pretty defeated with stuff like that but I'm like well did the effort feel the same?
Scott Hill: um and you've still completed the session don't worry that it was a little bit slower It's fine. We've still got the consistency in there and the load. that you'll see development um And...
Scott Hill: Again, another conversation I was having with another athlete was they're training for a marathon at the minute. And they were a like, well Okay. Can I extend this long run session? Ciao.
Scott Hill: these matter most and I was like No. He's like, well, this is going to be my last long run before the marathon. I was like, yeah, that that's fine. But you've got to take into account this. We're going to taper for your marathon, so you'll be fresh.
Scott Hill: Where is... At the minute. you know that's that's still a long run but you've got to take into account that you've just ran three more times that week. um it combination of load in one word.
Jayson: cumulative miles over the week.
Scott Hill: Exactly. And it was like... Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. I was like, exactly. So it's not necessarily about. doing more because we can is doing it right so that when you come to taper and and race whatever event you're doing that You're as fresh as you can be and you get the result that way, not...
Scott Hill: I need to do more. Yeah.
Jayson: And you don't you're not going to gain any fitness by adding an extra three, five miles onto your long run. So...
Scott Hill: Not that close.
Jayson: the the one before taper so you know it's
Scott Hill: just
Jayson: It is about having those. three months. four months before that you've built up.
Scott Hill: Yep.
Jayson: That consistency, isn't it?
Scott Hill: Yeah, and I guess... you know We're talking about different athletes now as well. and availability. and athletes need to understand that some athletes They might only have six hours a week.
Scott Hill: some athletes might have 10 hours a week. what What you can't do is go... okay great well you've told us you've got 10 hours a week but you've you've just been training for two recently but i'm not going to start programming you 10 hours because we need to get you step by step to that point.
Scott Hill: not just go zero to hero. And that's all. what we can offer for coaching as well as ensuring that the build is there correctly to reduce all the other things we've spoken about tonight. so that the coaching and the the training program is
Scott Hill: Um, functional. for for. individual athletes. not the same. of
Scott Hill: Motivation and discipline.
Scott Hill: I think this is a topic that... We see quite a lot on social media posts as well. motivation and discipline. um
Scott Hill: Are you always motivated?
Jayson: I personally am not always motivated. And a little trick, just because you touched on it about the running, a little trick I've learned over the years to get myself out the door when I'm not motivated. and To be honest, I really suffer in the winter for for that motivation purpose, even though I know I've got a spring marathon.
Jayson: every year because I would like to get one in. every year but I say go and do a kilometer. Whatever the weather, I'd just say... whatever run i've got as well by the way whether it's a 5k easy or interval session or a long run i say Go and do one kilometre and you can come home.
Jayson: And I do a kilometer and say just do one more. Eventually you've done the session. Because after the first kilometer, you're out there, you're doing it. And I guarantee you now, you'll never, I've yet to do it where I've turned home. And by the way, I will come home after that kilometer. In my head, I've committed to just going to do one kilometer and you can come home.
Jayson: And I've yet to, and I've done this for years now. I've yet to come home after one kilometre.
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: So it works. um And it's the same for the bike, to be honest. I go in there, I say, just do 10 minutes on the bike. If you do 10 minutes, you can say you've done something. End. That's it.
Scott Hill: I mean... Successful athletes do not wake up every morning with nothing. Yes. I'm looking forward to this session today. Um, Not at all. um
Jayson: And I think if you looked at either of our social medias, you would probably look at us and think we're the most motivated people ever because...
Scott Hill: i'm
Jayson: You very rarely see that. And ah okay, maybe I lie there. I do share when I don't feel like doing it. But most people don't share when they don't. Dude, I always said I would share the honest truth, but and I do.
Scott Hill: Yep. You just share the swimming side of it.
Jayson: I hate swimming. But I go and do it.
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: So. For the most part, like 90 % of my swims I do. But... I am. I don't like to be right. But I go and do it because I know how important it is to do.
Scott Hill: I think.
Jayson: And you have to do it.
Scott Hill: 1 .1 label that is. I said earlier on, swimming tends to be the weaker discipline for most athletes, not all. And people hate swimming, so they'll avoid it for that very reason. However...
Scott Hill: it's important that athletes swim because yes they might it's the harder one to master it's the harder one to get quick at However, You do build. a resistance to the fatigue element of it so let's say you don't swim and you've got a 70 .3 coming up and You do the 70 .3 swim. Yes, you get through it.
Scott Hill: in whatever time it is but you're not your body's not used to that your body is going to be absolutely fried which then has a knock -on effect to you not having a good bike which then is a knock -on effect you're not having a good run whereas If you are weaker at swimming still get the swimming in. get the volume in, whatever it may be, drill sessions, intervals, threshold, whatever.
Scott Hill: over the time then your body ends up less fatigued it might not be massively faster. but less fatigued which means you get out and you get on that bike and you can perform the bike that you know you can perform. And then you have the better run or you can perform the run you know you perform. I think so many people think.
Scott Hill: i don't like screaming i'm just going to avoid it but It's also hard to get the swimming in in some cases because you're also fixated to someone else's timescale
Jayson: yeah
Scott Hill: Worries. a run is door -to -door a bike is potentially door -to -door in your garage or pain cave whatever A swimming pool. you've got to go to a local leisure center you're now fixated to their lane swimming times or you've got backstroke betty that's in the lane getting in your way um
Jayson: okay
Scott Hill: and that can make it very awkward and difficult i know that's one of your issues with your leisure center is Other people in the pool.
Jayson: That's other people, isn't it? that That is my issue. it's that I don't mind once I'm there swimming. It's the people in the lane. But.
Scott Hill: yeah
Jayson: it's one of those things you you're absolutely right it's more about getting the swoop because i don't necessarily improve. a great deal in my times whether i train for swimming and don't train i'll be honest with you There will be a few minutes in it. either side.
Jayson: bots. It's how you feel. in the other two. Right from the switch.
Scott Hill: It's... Yeah. yeah yeah it is it's it's been consistent so what what you don't want to do is let's again you know let's talk about 70 .3s but what you don't want to do is start 70 .3 and The first 400 meters is absolutely maxed out. Your heart rate's hit the ceiling. And then you're absolutely flatlining struggling throughout. You want to be getting in there and swimming comfortably and competently from minute.
Scott Hill: Zero. to whatever it is 40 minutes and you're out of the water it needs to be a continuous swim but your ability controlled. and then get out and have a good bike and a run in some cases. um but you know you've got people that are very good at swimming in you know they're out of there in 22 minutes and stuff like that which I'd absolutely love myself, but I'm not quite there. um
Scott Hill: but i'm a competent and capable swimmer and i know that you know i do swim quite a lot and i can get in and i can do the distance and then my favorite bit is the bike and i can get on and have a good bike and then Nine times out of ten, I have an okay run as well. um So yeah, I think it's... um motivation's hard.
Scott Hill: discipline is key um if you can balance the both. Done. And you're on to a bigger winner.
Jayson: Yeah, I think the coach can. can help a little bit with motivation not entirely but the discipline side of things that's That's on them.
Scott Hill: Yeah.
Jayson: you know, that is a coach can't help with the discipline.
Scott Hill: Um, long -term progression yeah we've we've We've delved into so many topics tonight, but I think long -term progression is also a topic or an area that people forget now i've used it many times now the usain bolt um analogy where you know Usain Bolt trained four years for nine seconds.
Scott Hill: Um, so many times and i see it and i've seen it with friends of mine and it it really does frustrate me sometimes but that would enter an event. they'll do it they'll train for four to six months for the event do the event And then they'll just stop training.
Scott Hill: and then They've entered another event because they loved it so much. But then they start training four to six months out and they do the event and the time is... the same or worse it's all very similar
Jayson: Yeah.
Scott Hill: and and they ask well why am i not why am i not getting any critical quicker i'm like well i can tell you why because you haven't got your consistency there um And it's not about, you know, we're not we're not in in the racing zone for that whole duration. it's we fluctuate around the program and you know if we come closer to racing and strength and conditioning It should be less. but it should still be there.
Scott Hill: but if we go through the the off -season as most athletes call it, then... we have more time to do strength and conditioning so we're building the body to be stronger to absorb the load and adaptations so that when we come back into that cycle again it's we're starting to ramp things up but your body's now developing Um, in a in a different way but you're actually getting quicker so it's The cycle has to remain if you want to keep developing.
Scott Hill: know and you You touched on it earlier where you said, I'm... chasing sub -9 hours. Yeah. But. I know that. it takes a consistent training for that. and i you know i was very close to it last year this year hasn't been perfect for me for various reasons, be it you know. Um,
Scott Hill: work life, home life. uh i had a couple of um sicknesses i don't know if it's covered anymore but around that sort of stuff but I'm still consistently training and I'm still having good results.
Scott Hill: based off that. but I'm not at the pinnacle of what I was last year. but I've still got the fire in my belly to keep training through. This off -season. into next year to hopefully achieve what I want to achieve and what I think is achievable.
Scott Hill: um So I will continue to develop towards that. hence working with the coach for that. Um,
Scott Hill: So structuring the week is is really important. Uh... you know going back to the original topic where we we said you know what would we do with an athlete when we spoke to them where we'd work out how they work a week and would structure a week around. them in their life and that could be as simple as Okay, well what days?
Scott Hill: What days can you go to the swimming pool? What days can't you train? What days have you got other commitments? um and that's a conversation that you've had with a few athletes recently is working out There.
Scott Hill: their lifestyle around their plan to then you're formulating their plan around training peaks so that they can achieve to do stuff with that. um how say how or what are you noticing with athletes with programs and speaking to you and changes. how how so often is things like that happening and and what are you doing to go that extra mile to help them
Jayson: I think definitely staying on top of... actually seeing what they are doing because i think a lot of people are guilty of like we said in the very beginning of not communicating with with the coaches and saying look i am struggling or i've missed this session because of this reason they just kind of bury their head in the sand or Worse than that is start moving sessions themselves.
Jayson: and then don't know. the knock -on effect that that causes So... it's super important firstly to just remind them you know what you need to just... Lit. let let your coach know just say I've got. all of this going on this week, or next week, or whatever it is, whenever, you know, even today, do you know what, I woke up this morning, and I'm just not feeling this session today, because of whatever, it doesn't matter what the reason is, actually. um Remember,
Jayson: It's their plan. We can try and help. talk you around it but ultimately Move. move things around. as much as you needed to be moved around ultimately. But...
Jayson: trying to explain why things need to be done in the way they are done. you know there's no but we can't put you're not gonna if you move your swim from a monday to a tuesday but you've got to swim on a tuesday all of a sudden you you're having back -to -back swims and then you're going three days four days without a swim again you know it's not it's not ideal and some people don't really realize that and then It's things like that. so Just reminding them that. communication is key and i think i try and encourage to leave comments and i said you know
Jayson: using training peaks is great because they can just leave a comment straight away after the session. i'm i love going on to training peaks and looking at the green red or amber you know i just love that because I want to make sure all my sessions are green. because it messes with my head if they're not.
Jayson: But... When you're on there... you can just leave a comment. How did you feel? Did you find it too easy? Did you find it too hard? What are the plans for tomorrow? whatever it might is.
Jayson: might be. But then also. schedule a call in. We obviously... Wee. Personally, I don't know what everyone else does, but we obviously got a WhatsApp group. So communication is...
Jayson: probably the most well it is not probably it is the most important thing so that we can understand what's going on and then move things accordingly
Scott Hill: it's one thing i always say is you know if if i like to have a conversation and chat to athletes all the time anyway um you know my my phone is open if they send me a message they look we have a catch up then absolutely.
Scott Hill: Um, You also get some people out there that literally just... I have to kind of chase them Sometimes. because they're just they aren they're very good at it and they just go and do everything and they never say anything and they just get on with it. But I'm like...
Scott Hill: everyone quite let's have a catch -up where some athletes will be like oh can we have a catch -up So i have that I have that rapport. and that open -door policy where athletes can message me, we can ring me, we can have that you know that as chat as much or as little as we need to. But i also, you know you've touched on it there where you mentioned...
Scott Hill: Um, where athletes move things around. I tried to help them understand that. there's a there could be a um an action creates an effect so if they were to do one action it might have an effect somewhere else so rather than doing that back to back days we'll know we have to if we move that we may have to move this this and this and if that happens Is that okay?
Scott Hill: um and more often than not yeah i could do that or no i can't do that one but how about that and i'm like yeah we can do that and that's fine so that's having that communication piece um So, I mean, you know, we're both now coaches for TriWolf Triathlon Coaching.
Scott Hill: um so if Anyone is out there listening, we are currently looking for athletes to take on for the remainder of this year and into next year. If you didn't know what... or why what the Tri -Wolf stands for, but effectively, obviously, Tri for triathlon, and then the Wolf is wisdom, opportunity, life, and fitness.
Scott Hill: Something that I thought of you know many years ago now. um
Scott Hill: I live by opportunity I love the word opportunity um my life is in fitness and it's it's part of me it's ingrained in me it has been for since I was a kid so I think it's really important and it meant a lot to me and and it's been really great to obviously have Jason come on board as a coach as well and I know that's something we're looking to develop longer term.
Scott Hill: in what we're offering and with more athletes and building our community as well so I do think if anyone is out there looking you're not obliged to be coached by us but have a chat with us and see what we can offer and what we can do for you um And I guess...
Scott Hill: For yourself. Jason, you know you've been coaching with with me now for a few months and you're obviously seeing yourself develop and developing athletes and stuff as well which is from my perspective is really nice to sort of see and have you on board with that as well so um I'm glad.
Scott Hill: Um, It's been good so far and hopefully it will continue to develop.
Scott Hill: Um, So yeah, I think at the minute. I don't know what else you've got to say on that. is in what you're looking for at the minute in regards to coaching, Jason?
Jayson: No, I think it's it's great that we've been able to do this and obviously for people that don't know, I mean, you've been coaching me for the the last year and that's kind of how it's... come about you know because we we share kind of the same values.
Jayson: And I've... I've obviously been... working with you for the last year and it's it's I've seen. the div - the improvements in in what I've been able to achieve. But then also.
Jayson: you know, I wanted to use your wisdom. um and then obviously we had a great opportunity. so this is how it's all come about so it's hiding and like you we said right in the beginning you know we big believers in qualifications uh because it's super important for a number of reasons not just from a knowledge perspective but insurances etc we've both got experience we both
Jayson: well you're serving still but me being ex -military as well um so we've got a lot of common ground so for me it was just a natural fit um that. works and you know, I think we share the passion for.
Jayson: the sports and want to give something back to it. And this seemed like the the best way to do it. to help others. in Enjoy the sport as much as we do. and one day maybe love it as much as we do because i think it's fair to say we both love it i mean there's only ever supposed to be one like i said and Here we are 10 years later.
Scott Hill: Yeah, I think mine was... I don't know. I'd enter two. Big triathlons. in the same year but again I didn't expect to be where I am today.
Scott Hill: um But it's certainly a lifestyle and a passion of mine and one I want to continue to do. um yeah absolutely we're looking for more athletes to take on this year into next year so if you are looking and come and have a chat to us If you find us on social media, listening to UK TriChat, we'll have some more stuff going on in the future.
Scott Hill: But yeah, I just want to just close it off to say. Thanks very much for coming on. on the podcast tonight jason um i'm sure when i've
Jayson: Thanks for having me.
Scott Hill: i'm sure we'll have some more in the future along with some other exciting guests we've got coming up as well um i'm not going to spoil too much thunder but we've got some some products and some pro athletes coming on soon. So please do have a listen to the previous podcast that we've done so far. Give us a like a share and a follow. Follow us both on our pages.
Scott Hill: and um We look forward to speaking with you and working with you in the future. And thank you for listening to another another episode of UK Tri Chat with myself, Scott Hill from Tri Wolf Triathlon Coaching. I'm Jason from TriWolf Triathlon Coaching.
Jayson: Thank you.
