Transcript
Danny Price: All right, everyone. Hey, welcome back to episode five of Table Talk Recap Podcast. Just me and Shane Finley. and We did skip last week. Shane wasn't feeling really good. So we had Mike Smith teach at Mountain View.
Danny Price: um And one day I'd love to actually have him on and talk about if he ever preaches again. But um We weren't able to do this last week, so we're picking back up with episode five. So we're still back in our foundation series at Mountain View Fellowship.
Danny Price: um This is the second week of the foundation series, and it's going to be going over the Bible. So I have Shane with me. So Shane, give a quick little background just on this message and kind of what you were trying to get at. get out
Shane: um Well, I think the first half was try trying to get people to see that the Bible has that. There's evidential reason behind the faith that we have in God's word.
Shane: And it's not meant to just be accepted blindly and that the Bible is meant to be the authority in our lives. um So I kind of want to start with there. You know, I think our congregation, i what I love about it is there's some really deep, strong Christians, but there's also a lot of people who are new in their faith and they're, um you know, just kind of moving along that journey of what it means to have faith in Jesus um and some that are still even investigating faith in Jesus. So ah um this whole series, there's probably going to be a good portion
Shane: that There's some of that apologetic aspect, you know not in a deep level, but you know a little bit. And then getting into the meat of what what is what are we doing with this belief?
Shane: how How are we supposed to hold?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: What's it supposed to do to affect us? So um that was kind of the way I hit that. Probably about 50-50 on belief versus why we should believe.
Danny Price: No. Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. I thought you did a great job. It was, it was a good message. I loved it. Um, you started off. So it was funny just talking about the, no, I would tell you if it wasn't my favorite.
Shane: Are you ever going to say, that message sucked, Shane? Why did you give that Okay, good. Yeah.
Danny Price: i feel like I would tell you if it wasn't my favorite.
Shane: okay good
Danny Price: Um, Maybe. So you started off talking about the books that people read and you had everyone raise their hand in the congregation, ah you know, based off, which I was surprised.
Danny Price: I think I was surprised by how many people, few people read books um every year. I think that was interesting, just regardless of the Bible, just even for fun.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: um I'm not a, I used to be a crazy reader. I don't read as much, but even a little bit of reading, I'm like, I still read a couple of books a year. Like, i don't know.
Shane: Yeah, it's funny because I even started with saying I'm not a reader, but I, you know, obviously I do.
Danny Price: It was
Shane: It's funny because I didn't make sure I clarified that. I'm not a reader by nature, but I i definitely read. You know, i I probably read in some shape or form two books a month.
Danny Price: You have to.
Shane: But if it weren't for...
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And being a pastor, if I just, you know, I had a construction job or I was, you know, a sales job or something like that i still think I would read two, maybe three books a year, you know. So um but a lot of people just are not.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And the statistics definitely show that I've read some statistics that say, yeah, what's that?
Danny Price: And it's dropped recently. Yeah.
Danny Price: has dropped recently. Like it's like in the past, like I'm sure 20 years since like phones and all that.
Shane: Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's gone down way. And some statistics statistics to say that the average man specifically, and the only that only one out of every five men, only one out of every five men will read a book um after they finish their final level of education.
Danny Price: What?
Shane: and a ah non A nonfiction book.
Danny Price: Wow. That's crazy.
Shane: yeah i I don't know where all those men live, because I know more than that that do.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: but
Danny Price: Yeah, I know, but thats that's wild. That's crazy. Anyway, so... You were doing that to set up just how we don't read enough anyways, let alone scripture. um So I guess that's my first question is, what would you tell someone who wants to be more biblically literate and understand the Bible more?
Danny Price: What should they do? Should they just pick up the Bible and read every day? Should they just, should they bounce around? Should they do chronological? Is there a place they should start?
Shane: but
Danny Price: What would you tell the average man? Let's just say man, my age, 30 years old. Hey, I don't know enough about the Bible. I want to know more. Where do I start?
Shane: um I tell them to start, especially men, i tell him them to start with the Gospels, and I usually tell them to start with Mark and then Luke. um
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And my reason for that is men are action-focused, usually, and both Mark and Luke um are a little bit more focused on the actions of Jesus.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: um And, you know, Mark gets right to it. And then Luke get gets to it pretty quick. And then there's a lot of stories in Luke. It's the book. It's the ah the gospel of parables.
Shane: So the more you know the all of them have parables, but it ah it has a lot of the parables. So I usually tell men, folks, start with Mark and then go to Luke. You know, I know a lot of people, the idea start with Gospel of John, start with the Gospel John.
Shane: And yes, for the theology of who Jesus is, but to just to get to know Jesus better and to get your interest in the Bible, I actually usually say start with those two and then go to John.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: and And, you know, it's a lot of Gospels, I know, but... you know i feel I kind of figure if I can at least get through people through the Gospels and Acts, at least they're going have the understanding of who Jesus is and how the church gets started and all that.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: um you know and then And then start moving into other things. Sometimes I'll tell people also read just one Psalm a day with along with it. And then the other tell people is start, and I said this in at least one of the services, two minutes a day.
Danny Price: okay
Shane: Two minutes, set a timer. I, you know, whatever you got to just start super small, but, but do it.
Danny Price: But you just do it.
Shane: And then the final thing I would say today we have as the option, I still don't like this as the option, but at least to get started is um the Bible, I would do the Bible in a year podcast.
Danny Price: Just do it.
Shane: Cause you can listen to it. You can listen to the Bible on, um audible not audible on the, the what's that Bible app. Anyway, the Bible app.
Danny Price: You version.
Shane: And then you do the Bible in a year and then that gives you some background.
Danny Price: Okay, that's a good that's a good word. um So, yeah, I mean, I've talked to so many people, and I... I've never been able to answer that directly, like start here, start there.
Danny Price: Cause it's, I've known the Bible my whole life and I didn't know where exactly I started. I just started hearing about these things when I was a kid. So it's like, for someone that doesn't know anything, it's hard for me to be like, well, you got to start in Genesis, but but because that's technically the beginning, but if you start there, you're going to miss a lot of stuff.
Danny Price: And before you even get to the gospels, you're going to get potentially just distracted and lost.
Shane: Thank you.
Danny Price: And then same thing. It's like, if you just do the gospels and only do the new Testament, I guess that's ah that's a kind of a side question I had. If as Christians under the new covenant, do we still need to read and understand the old Testament or is it all about the new Testament?
Danny Price: Should we only listen to the red letters, you know, like the the things that Jesus said in the Bible or is the new as the old Testament still very important to read?
Shane: right
Shane: Yeah, there's a huge movement, not huge, but a movement in, that i think it was the early 2000s of the ah red letter Christians. You know, I only read the words of Jesus.
Danny Price: Yes.
Shane: and that's I think that's really missing the mark. um But here's I will say. i definitely, that's another thing where as my faith has increased and as I've grown, i i've my view has changed. I would have definitely told you up to probably...
Shane: a few years past your age that, hey, man, if you if you get the New Testament down and you just stay mostly in the New Testament, almost all in the New Testament, or just don't even worry about the Old Testament if you if it just you can't go there, i I might have said, yeah, that's fine.
Shane: Um, now I would definitely say, no, you need to, we need to take the whole counsel of scripture. Um, your understanding of God will, will grow immensely if you retake in the old Testament.
Shane: Um, I definitely would say though, hey man, new Christian just starting out.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: Yeah. Read through the new Testament, you know, read through the new Testament because that's where you're going to get so much of your, um, your application, what it means to live in Christ.
Danny Price: okay
Shane: um what, you know, abiding in him, allowing him to be your power and strength, all, all that, Um, but, you know, but if you're someone who enjoy, but there are people who really just, take their brain works anyway around history and they, they enjoy and understanding things in deeper knowledge.
Shane: And if that's you, man, yeah, just read the old Testament, new Testament coincidingly. And, um, but eventually, you know, a couple, if you're going to be reading the Bible, I would say a couple of years at minimum into the, you're reading, you should start taking in the old Testament.
Danny Price: You need, you need to.
Shane: um
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: You know, and I think Genesis is a great place to start in the Old Testament because that gives you so much background, pretty much all, you know, ah you know, I'll ride up to Moses, you know, almost because you get you get to Joseph and then the the next major figure is is Moses.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: No, that's that's good. um Yeah, I remember I've heard people talk about that. Like, really, all you have to do is just listen to Jesus' words. And it's like, well, but even Jesus talks about the law and the prophets and goes through everything. So if youre even if you're just listening to him, you still he still quotes at all.
Shane: Yeah, I mean, Jesus quotes...
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Yeah, he's quoting the Old Testament all the time. So, yeah, he obviously held it as God's word.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So...
Danny Price: Yeah, that's cool. um So another comment of, what's the word? um People that object to the Bible as authority or as anything, a lot of them will say, well, a lot of the stuff in the Bible, it was just for that time only.
Danny Price: It was a cultural thing. It was just for that just just for them. We don't need to listen to that. That does not apply to us at all. So what How do we sift through? Because there are different genres in scripture.
Danny Price: there's you know There's prophetic stuff. There's historical things. There's like the wisdom literature and all that stuff in the gospels. How do we sift through what we apply as prescriptive to our lives? Like we need to do this versus descriptive of that's what those people were at that time and place. And that's what God's law was at the time.
Danny Price: But it doesn't necessarily mean we obey that to the letter of the law now. How do we sift through that?
Shane: That's a good question. it's a It's kind of a complicated one in some ways. um
Danny Price: Yeah, sorry.
Shane: But no, that's okay. um So, you know, I guess the – so so you want to you want to talk about the law specifically?
Shane: Like – or do you think – because let's just focus – yeah, okay.
Danny Price: Yeah, let's just do that. Let's just say Leviticus.
Shane: So let's focus – say again. I'm sorry.
Danny Price: right Let's just say like Leviticus. like Let's just say the like the old law. Is that prescriptive to us?
Shane: Okay.
Danny Price: Do we live under the do we live under the law? And if so, what does that look like?
Shane: Well, okay. So there's, there's three types of law in the, in the old Testament. There's a moral law, civil law, and, um and ceremonial.
Shane: Yeah. I think, yeah.
Danny Price: Okay.
Shane: Ceremonial, like the religious, the religious ah procedures and that kind of thing. So, You know, the moral law and this is where like people will get into like they say, well, if you're going to say that homosexuality is a sin, then you have to say it's a sin to eat pork.
Shane: Does that make sense?
Danny Price: Got it. Yeah.
Shane: So um but there is moral law that we are still held to because that's upholding the the moral law. code, if you will, you know, what it means to be holy.
Shane: But um civil law, first of all, we don't live in a theocracy um like the Jewish people did under the old law. eventually And then eventually they asked for a king, know, all that.
Shane: But ah originally it was created to be a theocracy.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Shane: And then ceremonial law is, you know, the the ah part that, especially in Leviticus, you find a lot of wrath surrounded by, you know, the...
Shane: the the temple and, uh, worshiping them in the temple and all that kind thing. So, you know, now there are people who have differing views that would say, you know, there are Christians, um, today still hold the ceremonial law.
Shane: Um, but, um, not, not very many,
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: there's ah There's a few.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: um But there are there are little groups or sects, I guess, you know, that that hold to that. But mostly we would say the moral law, because if you look in the New Testament, that's what is upheld is the moral law.
Danny Price: Got it.
Shane: And in civil law, you know, um at some level, you know, i mean, um we don't we don't punish the same way. obviously, that they did in the Old Testament.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: But we we still would say, in fact, that's kind of, you know, a lot of liberalism in United States is kind of leaning towards, well, who's to say what's right or wrong when it comes to, you know, any, well, I guess a lot of that would be moral law.
Danny Price: Yes.
Shane: But even this the civil law, you know, you still get a little bit of that. Does that make sense?
Danny Price: Right. No, that makes sense. Yeah, no, that makes sense. That's good. Cool. Yeah, because I guess, yeah, yeah, there's a whole can of worms. And then you can go into like what Paul says. Do we still, I don't want to, that might be something for a different day. That's a, you could tell the whole podcast, we could just talk about that.
Danny Price: um tell all the different opinions about all that stuff. um So the one of the questions that I think is one of the major questions that I've gotten as someone who is a Christian when it comes to the Bible is everyone says, well, the Bible you can't even trust because first of all, a bunch of old guys just said, okay, here's the Bible and then gave it to us.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: you know they They always bring up like the different councils you know back in like the early, like it wasn't Roman Catholic, but like the early church days, I guess, when it was starting to become kind of more of it
Shane: her
Shane: Yeah, canon canonization process basically.
Danny Price: Yeah, and they'll be like, well, you don't even know that that was God's word. Basically, just a bunch of old guys in a secret room with smoke and like you know various a lot of secrecy. They just said, okay, this is the Bible, and then all these idiots are going to believe it.
Danny Price: That's what I've heard a lot of people say that critiqued scripture. Is that how the Bible came about in terms of what was canon, what was considered our holy Bible?
Shane: right
Danny Price: How did that happen?
Shane: Well, first of all, the the Old Testament pretty much has been recognized since the time of Christ. um
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: The only thing that you would you might discuss and talk about there would be um the Apocrypha. um
Danny Price: Tell us about the Apocrypha, for those of us that don't know that is.
Shane: So thepo the Apocrypha is by Protestants, um and um I think
Shane: I think Jewish people, you might the um you might have to, I might be wrong on that, but definitely by Protestants, the Apocrypha is not recognized as as actual scripture.
Shane: um
Danny Price: Okay. Okay.
Shane: So it is by the Catholic Church, and I think the Greek Orthodox, but definitely the Catholic Church.
Danny Price: But it is by by Catholics, is that right? Or is it the Eastern? this e Yeah, the Eastern Orthodox guys, yeah.
Shane: So, um but the, And the main reason for that is, um well, okay, that that might not be the main reason, but one of the key reasons is that the books are, they they focus on historical events and things that happened during the Old Testament, and they can indeed definitely be, you know,
Shane: worthy of reading, we would say, but they don't necessarily, um, point to the, the overall story of God and, and pointing to Jesus the way the rest does.
Shane: Um, but you, that don't quote me on that part.
Danny Price: Got it.
Shane: You, we, I'd have to look that up a little bit more. Um, but outside of that, I mean, it's, been it's been accepted.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: That's, that's the way it's always been seen. um,
Danny Price: Right. The Old Testament has just always been, yeah.
Shane: there Yeah, the Old Testament. Then you have the New Testament, which most, well, actually, yeah, most scholars would say that all the books were written between 45 and 100.
Shane: forty five and one hundred um And they were all written by apostles or really close associates with apostles. And what happened to is those book that though the letters we have from the the New Testament, those were in circulation along all these churches that were being started.
Shane: Um, and they would circulate them and read them and study them and get, and and understand them. And, um, and they would have those within the community. But then what, what was also happening is remember Christ was this like major figure.
Shane: ah So, so people, other people started writing things about him. Um,
Danny Price: Right, like Josephus and...
Shane: So, yeah, so there were all these other people who were also writing, and much of it was very much in line with with scripture um that we would accept today.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Some of it not so much, just like you would have... Right. I mean, pick any major figure and, you know, you're going to find like someone who writes about Abraham Lincoln.
Shane: You're going to find books that are more respected by authors who written about him.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And then one day other scholars would go, no, that that's not accurate. um So that was happening. And so what happened was basically.
Shane: um they They put together a ah criteria for canonization um between the second and fourth centuries. And there was kind of a process. And the um criteria were that either A, they had to meet these four things.
Shane: They had to be written by an apostle or someone who was a direct disciple of an apostle, like a really close um follower of that apostle.
Danny Price: Got it.
Shane: It had to be um it had to be consistent with the Gospels and Old Testament, and it had to have um widespread use.
Shane: It couldn't be recognized by more than just one church um and, you know, a few churches.
Danny Price: got it
Shane: And then um And then they also just that they would recognize that it was in line with the Holy Spirit, you know, so that was the final part is, you know, prayer and, you know, is, is this in line with what God wants?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So um by the, so by the end of the second century, um almost all the churches accepted almost everything we would see in the um New Testament.
Shane: So the only books that were disputed were James, ah no, Hebrews, James, and 2 Peter and Revelation. um and i did And think I might be missing one.
Shane: a Anyway, but so there was not very many, like all of Paul's letters, none of those were disputed. None of the god four gospels were disputed. Acts wasn't disputed. None of that. And so then it was just kind of a process of whether or not those were accepted by the councils. And there was, um,
Shane: You know, just different different councils that ended up meeting. And then the hippo council is the one that I think most people point to um in the late third century um or fourth century three nine, like in the three nineties.
Shane: So that'd be the fourth. That'd be the fourth century.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Right.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: it
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. so
Danny Price: Right. Yeah.
Shane: and so So that's how it was put together.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: it wasn't just a bunch of old men like that got, you know, 50 books and they just decided, well, which ones do we like most? Which ones promote what we want most? um
Danny Price: That's what I've heard from a lot of people. Like, that's what happens.
Shane: Yeah, they were most they were mostly accepted at the some point anyway.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I mean, it would have just been a small amount that was kind of disputed anyway.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So, you know, which, which honestly, real quick, honestly on that, if someone wants to throw out Hebrews, James, second Peter and revelation, you know, that'd be the, that'd be the only thing they could really argue based on that, you know?
Danny Price: Okay. That was a good.
Danny Price: Yeah, which there is some great theology in all those, but still the core of the gospel, you're still you're still upholding that Jesus is God, the Trinity, you know sin, God, loving his people, sending his son, all that stuff is still upheld.
Shane: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. the, then
Shane: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. I'm just simply saying it's really not nearly as big as people try to make it, I think.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, that's true. I have that that. I just wanted to bring that up because that has been something I've, and I struggle too, because sometimes not knowing the historical like background about things, and that was the first time I heard about that was the first time I had ever heard about it. And someone brought that to me and I was like,
Danny Price: I had never thought about that. Like, how did the, buy how did we get the Bible? I just assumed that people just kept reading it and it was still like written down. And we just, and I was like, I'd never even thought about that. So that kind of, it shook me for a second until I kind of did some deeper digging, which again, and you talk about this is how the more you dig into this, the more evidence there is.
Danny Price: And it just like, it's more and more confirmed about our faith and specifically the Bible of like how reputable it is. So it it holds up to scrutiny.
Shane: Yeah, no, definitely. I think that I think most Christians that do any research, like that involve themselves with people outside of Christian circles are eventually going to have those arguments thrown at them.
Shane: And um it is important to hear these things. Same thing. I had the exact same thing happen to me. And like say, it was in college when I started, when I gave my faith to Christ, then all of a sudden all these people were hitting me with,
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: other thoughts I actually had two people on Sunday come up to me and, and even kind of talk about, well, but you've heard of the gospel of Thomas, right? Like, like that's, you know, like how did, yeah.
Danny Price: ah The Book of Giants.
Shane: So all the, you know, so, so I had to kind of have some, a couple of those discussions on Sunday. So.
Danny Price: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. um Let me look through my questions here. we've already You've already covered, which is great. You've already covered some of these. um How does society try to dilute and diminish the authority of scripture? And do we even sometimes do that in the church, in modern day church?
Shane: Well, society, I think, completely does. I think they try to use those arguments I said earlier about, you know, well, you can't say this is a sin unless you're following all these things. there're They're people that have no understanding of context and um literary style and all those kinds of things. And then they try to, you know, say, well, you have to throw all out because of this, that kind of thing.
Shane: So society does all sorts of stuff, you know, I mean, and you know, and every Easter The History Channel has some lame thing about how Jesus wasn't really real and, you know, all that kind stuff. And people eat that stuff up.
Shane: um
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: Then. um But then in the church.
Shane: I think it, from what I'm hearing, I'm not spending time on seminaries right now, at seminaries right now, but from what I'm hearing, it's, it is moving away.
Shane: But, you know, first of all, so a lot of great seminaries became liberal. um
Danny Price: right
Shane: And so then all these pastors started going into the church teaching with this kind of liberal liberal theology. um And you you have,
Shane: yeah
Shane: that kind of happening, everything from, well, you know, maybe we only need to focus on the New Testament all the way to throwing out scripture as authority, you know, I mean, a wide range.
Shane: um And then, know, I thankfully went to a conservative group um seminary um because you're very impressionable in your early 20s about, especially on things that you're passionate about with people who you think hold that same passion and they're trying to, you think you trust that they're guiding you.
Danny Price: Hmm. Yeah.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: so So the there's just a lot of liberalism that has been brought in. i don't think it's new. i think that's happened the The centuries, you know, there's been waves of that.
Shane: But I think there's a pushback. I think there's a lot of people your age and younger that are really pushing back towards. Like, hey, no, this should really affect us, you know.
Shane: And then on top of that, you know, yeah you had the um seeker movement within the church and the emergent church movement.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: um And that would have been more in line with like churches like ours. Those are the things that we people get caught up in. And I got caught up in that. You know, there was a period of time where I only taught topical sermons.
Shane: And. and you know I wouldn't say I lessened the the authority of Scripture, but it made it hard for people to feel like they were we were digging into Scripture ever.
Danny Price: Got it.
Shane: you know
Danny Price: okay
Shane: um So there's lots of ways that churches get caught up in it, but um i think it's not I don't necessari necessarily think it's really new.
Shane: I think there's been... you know
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: pieces of it throughout. I mean, you know, even shoot, most a lot of the New Testament was the battle Gnosticism, which was working its way into the church, you know, so.
Danny Price: Which it still is working its way into the church even now and like mis mystic kind of theology.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's all sorts of things that, you know, the church gets off.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: so So that is why it's important for people, and especially because we do have the Word of God now. So for centuries, the average person like you didn't have a Bible at home. And so you really had to trust your teacher.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Now, ah yeah you know, and i hear people say, well, yeah they didn't have the Bible back then, so why do we need to be responsible for reading the Bible? well Well, if you're going to say... that You could throw out so many things that we didn't have the ability to um yeah to travel you know like we do now.
Shane: so So now should we say, well, we don't need to worry about the you know different – it's a big argument.
Danny Price: So
Danny Price: for medicine, yeah, no, that's a, that's not a, that doesn't hold up.
Shane: so
Danny Price: ah
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And it does seem like Jesus, go ahead.
Shane: I don't know. No. ahead.
Danny Price: Oh, anyways, so i was just saying, it seems like Jesus kind of, and Paul even talks about like, you're being held to different standards based off of your knowledge of certain things. There's certain verses that talk about that. So like, if you're the more,
Danny Price: the more aware you are of like the word, like it seems like you're held to a higher standard because you have the word, just like the Jewish people were held to a higher standard because they had the law on the Torah. So that's, that's worse for you if you have it and then you don't read it or don't do anything with it.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So yeah,
Shane: Yeah. Okay. Real quick. I, yeah. Based on what you just said, i but you helped me clarify my thought. We live in a different society now. So yeah, people up to just 400 years ago, didn't have the word of God in their hands like you do, but they also didn't have phones in their hands that were giving them all sorts of the false information. And they didn't have all these things that our society now has it.
Shane: They didn't need to battle the world's input as much, you know, because you were in your villages, you were with your people, and that was your your um input. Now we have the input of the rest of the world, and so we need God's word on a more daily basis, I think, to to battle that.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, that's really good. It, it definitely, yeah, it, we have so much more distraction and so many opposing messages that are flying out of this daily. It's, it's insane.
Danny Price: So that's really good. Um,
Shane: Thank
Danny Price: Moving on to the next question. So along with that, ah kind of like not, I guess, diluting of scripture. This is kind of in a similar similar thread. Can Bible verses mean different things to different people?
Danny Price: um For example, I know that this verse says that, but to me, this is what it means. And then I go on to have a totally different interpretation of that. Is that, but how do we avoid that? What's the danger of that?
Danny Price: And are there different verses that mean that are mean different things that we've,
Shane: hit
Danny Price: Maybe we've missed as the interpretation because we didn't understand the culture or something. Or is the the plain reading, is that usually just generally what that scripture means?
Shane: So your original question was, can people have different interpretations? I mean, can it mean different things? The answer, the plain answer to that is no. a So the plain answer is no.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: It can only mean what it was intended to mean. um You know, um now, can you get different things out of it? Sometimes, yes.
Shane: um So for instance, let's just say you and I listen to a song. Well, the the author of that song had an intention when he wrote it, but we might hear it and get different things out of it.
Shane: So based on, yeah know, because our interpretation always goes through the lens of our life, right? So we're going to interpret God's words, God's words slightly different based on the lens of our life, but there is and original meaning behind it.
Shane: And so it is the job of the reader to dig to find out what the actual meaning is. Now, are we always going to be 100% on? No.
Shane: no um and And is it okay for you to read something and get a little bit different out of it than I do? I think yes, as long as it's in line with the entire counsel of Scripture.
Shane: So, um Let me just give you a a great example. Free will versus predestination. Right.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: You have great men and women of God who over the centuries have debated this. You know, you and I being two of them.
Danny Price: Yeah, right.
Shane: yeah No, I put us in the great category, but, you know, I'm.
Danny Price: ah Don't do that. Don't do that. No.
Shane: do to but But people who read the same Bible and we still we have differing views on on that based on how we see God, also based on how we're seeing it from
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: from the whole of scripture.
Danny Price: Scripture.
Shane: And, and there's verses that kind of point to different things.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And I do believe, I personally believe that we have a tendency based on our personality interpretation of, you know, our experiences that are going to kind of lean. We, it's hard for us to really take God for who he is holistically.
Shane: We, we all, I believe have a we lean towards God being a little bit more however we are and in our view. um and And it's hard to work through that And I think at some level, that's where we have to fully surrender and just go, God, I i don't know.
Shane: um i trust you, though. I trust that you're in control and you're sovereign.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And so so, yeah, so there's you know, there's issues that we're going to have disagreement on based on interpretation. But that interpretation cannot be. You know, like, okay, let's just say, um you know, I read a verse and I'm thinking about buying a car and i can afford one car and still tithe and I can't afford ah to tithe and buy this other car.
Shane: But I read a verse about God wanting good things for me and I interpret that that,
Danny Price: Yes.
Shane: you know God wants me to have this car and not, but I won't be able to tithe for three years.
Danny Price: Get that Ferrari.
Shane: Well, I'm sorry. yeah was not God. That's not, you are falsely interpreting scripture. So.
Danny Price: Yeah. Which again, goes back to the very beginning of like the whole topic of biblical literacy. It's so easy to make scripture say what you want it to say. If you're just taking one tiny verse out of context, but if you know you're biblically literate and you're understanding the whole of scripture, it's very easy for you to go, okay, wait a minute.
Danny Price: I don't need a Ferrari. but you know Let's, let's take a look at this, which is you know important. So That was a great answer. I love that. That was really good that you got into all that. didn't even have to ask some of the questions I was going to talk about.
Danny Price: um Two more questions really quick. I want to fly through because we're already at 32 minutes. ah
Shane: Okay, hey real quick, is one of them about the children? Because I wanted to hit on that.
Danny Price: Yes. Yes, that was going to be my last one.
Shane: so Okay. and
Danny Price: So for that, first one is you know I've been a Christian pretty much my whole life. I grew up in a really solid Christian household and was raised in Awana, Bible memorization, all this stuff. So I've grown up knowing all these Bible stories since I was just such a small kid.
Danny Price: And because of that, I kind of went through a period from when I was maybe about 15 to like 20-something where I... I stopped reading the Bible with a lot of joy and interest because I was like, I know the story. i I know it backwards and forwards.
Danny Price: I know the cool commentary, you know, descriptions of the cultural things. Like, I know that sounds so prideful to say out loud, but I felt like I knew it all.
Shane: me
Danny Price: And only recently in the past, maybe five, six, seven, eight years, have I really been interested in scripture because I'm realizing, man, I am so, I'm such an idiot. I'm such a sinner. I don't know anything. And I really need to like take God's word for what it means and really dig into it. And I found so much joy.
Danny Price: But even now still, there's times where I realize like, man, I'm, I kind of disregard some of the like some of my reading because I'm like, Oh, but I already knew, i already know that. And I feel like I haven't been able to like spark some of that joy and interest that i would hope to have as like a new believer might have with like, man, I just want to eat this up because it's so interesting.
Shane: Thank
Danny Price: yeah, My question is, that's a long, that was a long setup, but as a pastor, I'm sure you have some of those similar feelings because, you know, you know scripture so well because you've been in it so long. How do you, how do you keep joint interest for the word even while you know some of these stories before you even start them?
Shane: First of all, I don't know if I have that feeling as a pastor. I think as a pastor, sometimes it changes a little bit because I know I have to get up and talk about it every week. So I'm always like, man, I don't know this enough.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's true.
Shane: I've got to get dig in.
Danny Price: i I guess that's a good point.
Shane: but But if I didn't have to talk about it, yeah. But if I didn't have to talk about it, which by the way, is why I really encourage people to teach. Because when you start when you have to teach something, i don't care if it's three people, it it makes you want to stay a step ahead.
Shane: um but yeah.
Danny Price: That's true. Because you want to be able to answer the questions and know it. Yeah, that makes sense.
Shane: Yep. yep Which will also lead into our the next question I'm going to talk about.
Danny Price: Yes. Yeah.
Shane: But um so I had a friend who said I could not ever get him to read the Bible.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And he was like, well, i read it once and I know it. And what i always told him is that, yeah, but you're completely missing out on what it, the, the, the depth of the Bible, if that's how you see it. And so I guess I would say,
Shane: you know My wife and I, Tanya and I have a practice of going on a date night. And we try to do it like every other week. We probably honestly hit like every three weeks, right? I'll be honest.
Shane: There's nights. and you've ever seen the movie Date and Night, it was funny because there was you could see that there was this one that they're supposed to go on a date and they're both like, there's nights where we're not super excited. Like, oh, it's date night.
Shane: There's nights where we're just like, yeah, I know you.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: You know me, right? We're we're good. we We're tired. we've got We're busy. but But if we – and what happens, though, is we do that. And, yeah, honestly, half the time, that's kind of what the day was. We both went out. We we you know we got a little break. but And we maybe even get home more tired than we wish we were and all that kind of stuff.
Shane: But –
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: Five, six, seven of those dates a year turned out to be really fun, really engaging, really like we we get to know something we didn't know that we thought. I we've been married for 36 years and we think we know everything. And then sometimes like, what?
Shane: yeah I didn't know. yeah. so um But if we didn't do those date nights, we wouldn't have those moments. We wouldn't have those times. We would just get into the the rhythm of just kind go, well, we know each other bubble and and be bored with each other.
Shane: And I think that's what so many Christians do. they They get bored with their faith because they're not, they just think, well, I know, I understand. i got other things. I'm too busy. I'm too tired. And they don't dig And and there there are many times I read my Bible when I just, I'm reading through chapters, you know, and I'm just kind of like, okay, I'm reading my Bible again.
Shane: But then every once in a while, something jumps out at me that I'm like, I didn't see that because I'm at a different place in my life than six years ago when I read that that verse or two years, you know, whatever.
Danny Price: Daniel Katz- yeah.
Shane: And, um or I'm dealing with something right now that I wasn't dealing with last time I read that.
Danny Price: Daniel Katz-
Shane: So it, It really that's where he says, you know, the Bible is a two edged sword and it's a living, breathing work of God. And so you have to see it like any other relationship.
Danny Price: yeah.
Shane: And I'll just tell you, I think that's one of the problems. Right. Is even with Christian marriage, we think we're supposed to feel like engaging with each other. No, you don't always feel like engaging with each other, but that's your job when you're married.
Danny Price: It doesn't matter what you've, yeah.
Shane: and mean And the same thing goes with our walk with Christ.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: You don't always feel like engaging in that relationship, but that's what you're called to do. so i don't know if that answers it.
Danny Price: Yeah. We're called to be obedient. No, that was perfect. That was a great, great answer. And that was a good analogy too, with just like a dating relation, dating in marriage relationship of like, you still, you still gotta, you still gotta get to know your spouse.
Danny Price: It doesn't matter if you don't quote unquote feel like it in that moment. So great answer.
Shane: Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: um Last question. Yeah. And I wanted to say this one for last, cause I felt like it led up to it. So, You did talk about this a little bit in the sermon, but how do we train our children to not just know the word, but to love the word and be able to read it for themselves and to teach them in it?
Danny Price: How do how how do we do that as parents? I mean, you obviously have five kids, six kids, fifty five kids, six kids, five kids.
Shane: Yeah. but but
Danny Price: At all different age at all different ages. Sorry, I had think about that for a second. At all different ages. So I know you have some experience. um How do we do this as parents?
Shane: Yeah. And I, and I'll just say, I think this is an area, this is probably one of my areas. I feel like I failed the most. um And yet by the grace of God, i still think most of my kids have grown up with a at some level of a love for God's word and definitely a love for God.
Shane: Um, but I didn't do it. Like I didn't take it as seriously as I should have. I kind of thought it would happen by osmosis and, um, I wasn't as deliberate as I should have been.
Shane: Um, but I would say, We should be more deliberate. um So the one thing i think it starts with your kids seeing you love God's word. You know, ah all my kids have always seen growing up wherever my chair is, my Bible is by my chair.
Shane: Um, if they get up early enough, um, they see me reading God's word, not every morning. I'm not gonna lie, you know, it, it, but probably, you know, three to five mornings a week, um, either there, or they know I, you know, sometimes we'll do it at, yet I go through periods where i do it at the church.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Um, but, you know So they see it, but I think that's where I think I go back to Deuteronomy chapter six. I can't remember what that that passage is called something.
Danny Price: The Shema.
Shane: You might remember the what?
Danny Price: The Shema. Is that you're talking about?
Shane: Yeah, the Shemal, where it talks about, you know, talk about it when you walk along the path, when you're right out on your doorsteps.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
Shane: it It should be a part of your conversation. It should be worked into why you live your life the way you live your life. um You know, why you choose things over not choosing things.
Shane: um You know, so so at some level it needs to be worked in. um And then... Um, you know, that goes with that teaching thing, staying one step ahead.
Shane: You know, that should be another reason why as parent, if you're a parent, if you want your kids to love the word of God, you need to read it enough that you can kind of engage with it with them, you know, otherwise they're not, they're not going to.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So that, that would be my, my first thing. But I guess my main thing I would say is parents don't, don't take that lightly.
Danny Price: Yeah. It's a, there's a, there's a heaviness to that. That's, that's a good, it's a good responsibility. It's a good weight to have and to carry.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Good answer. Good answer. um That rounds us out. We're 41 minutes and we went a little late. We had a ton of questions to get through, but I think that was all, it was all good things. So um I think we'll end the episode here. Hope you guys that are listening are enjoying this. I think this is kind of just me and Shane riffing back and forth and just me listening to him explain a lot of things. So hopefully this is interesting for you guys.
Danny Price: And then for those of you that know us personally, haven't said this in podcast yet, but we'd love if you had feedback or things that you were like, man, I wish you would talk more about XYZ or whatever it is. We might not listen to you.
Danny Price: We might just take that criticism and say, sorry. But for, I think there are a lot of times where we are just totally, you have blind spots. um And so if there's anything that you would want us to cover more or maybe cover less, um'm I'm very, both of us are very open to that and wanting to make sure that we're we're being edifying to the body and this is profitable. And it's not just us having a little session of just talking back and forth. That's not going anywhere, which sometimes I fear it's going to be that way anyways.
Danny Price: So
Shane: I enjoy it anyway. So, you know, even if two people listen.
Danny Price: I know I like exactly. I'm like, I'm having a good time. So we'll keep it going, I guess, regardless of what people are listening.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: So, um, and then, yeah, go ahead.
Shane: I would also say if people have questions, they can so yeah text us the questions too. Maybe like if we we usually do this by Tuesday.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So, you know, Sunday or or Monday, text us a question.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: maybe Maybe we'll use it.
Danny Price: Yeah. I think ah we're, I want to get into that more. So yeah, that's kind of an open invitation for those of you had that have our numbers personally, just go ahead and send us a question. Again, it has to be probably by like Sunday evening or Monday morning. Cause by that time we kind of have the questions solidified and we're going record on Tuesday. So that would be beneficial if it was earlier and not super last minute, but yeah, we'd love that. We want this to be, my whole goal for this was for it to be this casual sit down and kind of like as if you we're all at a dinner table together and not this staunch, like very procedure thing. So hopefully that that's coming across to you guys as you're listening. So anyways, that ends the episode.
Danny Price: Hope you guys are enjoying this. Please pass this on to your friends or to anyone that you think would be interested in listening to this, especially if you're at Mountain View. So awesome. Thank you guys. Talk soon. Bye-bye.
Shane: Right.
