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Paul Rothrock Needs Some Help and the xG Debate - Ep. 1
109 Plays2 years ago
On the first ever episode of Lobbing Scorchers join Ari Liljenwall and Noah Riffe as they talk about the Seattle Sounders recent poor run of form, the validity of the xG stat, LAFC's Concacaf Champions League woes, the Seattle Seahawks draft picks and their love for Geno Smith.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Lobbing Scorchers'
00:00:00
Speaker
What is up, everybody? This is Ari Lillianwall. Welcome to the very first episode of my new podcast, Lobbing Scorchers.
00:00:16
Speaker
If you're listening to this, you might already be familiar with who I am, probably from following me on Twitter, but just in case, I'm gonna give a brief intro. I've got producer Noah. What's going on, everyone? Here with me. He's gonna be handling the more technical side of things.
Ari's MLS Journalism Journey
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm gonna be laying down some takes. He's gonna be laying down some takes as well. When I'm lucky, you know. When he's lucky. When I say he can.
00:00:44
Speaker
If you follow my content over the years, you know that I'm a longtime veteran of MLSSoccer.com. I started as the Seattle Sounders Beat writer there in 2014, right after I graduated from college. Grinded the Sounders Beat for about five years. In 2019, I moved to the editorial staff, and that's where I'm on every day. Writing, editing, producing MLS content.
00:01:12
Speaker
So I truly have a disgusting, disturbing amount of knowledge about Major League Soccer. I'm also going to be doing something that I'm very excited about, which is I'm going to be getting back into the Seahawks. I covered the Seahawks when I was an intern for Seattle PI. I started my internship with them three days before the NFC Championship game where Richard German made the tip on on Kaepernick.
00:01:39
Speaker
That was my intro to the Seattle sports scene. I got I got to Seattle to to cover Seattle sports for them and three days later I was I was covering that NFC championship game. So let's get into
Seattle Sounders' Performance Analysis
00:01:52
Speaker
it. It's a pretty interesting time to be Starting a podcast covering the Seattle Sounders because you know, there's there's been kind of
00:02:03
Speaker
two, two separate identities of, for the team so far this season, you know, you had the first five, six games this season where they look great. They looked like a shield and MLS cup contender. And then you have the last few weeks where they have decidedly not looked as much like that.
00:02:19
Speaker
So I think the question is, first of all, Noah, can they get back to that team that we saw earlier this season? Or is the, are these last few weeks, just what life is like now? There's been a lot of bad elves the last few weeks, a lot of bad elves. I mean, we could go down the list. I think it really all started with the four one loss at Portland. Since then you've had lost to sporting Kansas city at home to one, right? Yep. Austin SC at home.
00:02:48
Speaker
LA galaxy in the open cup 1-0 to the San Jose earthquakes most recently on Wednesday and you know when you look at a set of L's like that I Mean what stands out to me isn't just that it's
00:03:04
Speaker
a stack of L's. It's just the types of teams that they were playing. It's not teams that you should be taking zero points against. Okay. Even dating back to the Portland game, Portland was averaging 1.0, whatever points per game at the time. Sporting Kansas city was literally the worst team in the league at the time. Austin FC struggling this year, San Jose, bad run of form, uh, going into the game on Wednesday.
00:03:30
Speaker
LA galaxy, one of the worst teams in the league this year. So it's just a stretch of games that even with the injuries that they've had, and we're going to talk about that in the squad rotation that they've had to employ, you would still expect this team to be at least collecting some points out of those games. And they haven't, they've sprinkled a couple of wins in there. One zero wins, tough wins. I wouldn't even say their wins though.
00:03:55
Speaker
I mean, you know, dubs a dub one zero wins in Houston and one zero over the red bulls at home. So it's not like they've taken literally no points to start off. Let's let's talk about this. This earthquake scheme, because I think you can sort of look at that and try and project what's going to happen going forward based on what happened in that game.
Debating the Importance of Expected Goals (XG)
00:04:27
Speaker
The earthquakes game!
00:04:29
Speaker
was tough. It was, but you know, in a way I will tell you that it made me feel a little bit better about the prospects of this offense going forward. And we're going to have to talk about expected goals now, unfortunately. Okay. So in this game, I thought Seattle actually looked very good on offense. Um, they were flying around, they were creating chances, the whole game, three even expected goals. All right. Now
00:04:59
Speaker
Noah is anti expected goals. We had a, we had a debate about that the other night over actually Taco Bell. Yeah. And he actually had some pretty bad takes. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to actually, I'm going to let you dish your take on expected goals. And then we're going to talk about this. What's your take on expected goals? Well, I think
00:05:21
Speaker
Personally, and honestly, a lot of it was just a you die on a hill just to die on a hill to cause chaos in the group chat. But I think my biggest take with expected goals is like, who is this stat for? And what does it really matter or indicate? You know, if, if you are looking at what could have happened, that rocks, that's great, but it doesn't really tell the story of what actually happened.
00:05:51
Speaker
We look at that San Jose game. Absolutely. The sounders looked like on paper, they should have won, but they also gave away an absolutely garbage goal and had a striker who continuously can't finish. And
00:06:07
Speaker
You know, I don't know. I just I don't understand where the obsession with Using the metric as an excuse or as a talking point to say This team is not as bad as they say they are which like, okay fine, but they're still losing They're still in an incredibly bad run of form. Is this all just to say like the sounders are unlucky? Because I don't think that's the case either. So I guess my argument is just
00:06:35
Speaker
What does this stat mean? It's not for anybody. It's not a real life. That's kind of where I go with it. I'll tell you why that's a bad take. Okay, so you understand the concept, right?
00:06:53
Speaker
performance and final result are not necessarily aligned or related and that you can have individual games and stretches of a season where, but more, I'm more talking about this individual game. You can have an individual game where you play well and you lose, and you can also have an individual game where you play poorly
00:07:18
Speaker
and you win, right? So the thing to look at to determine what to make of that is the underlying performance, right? So all expected goals is, is an indicator of what the underlying performance was because every L I think you have to ask yourself about the underlying performance and what it can tell you. So XG is a mechanism
00:07:46
Speaker
to be able to look at it and say, did the, did the team play well? Did the team perform well? Were they playing well on offense? Did they generate chances where they expected to score? Right. And did they, but the point is that you, you have to look at performance and not just final result sometimes, because especially in soccer,
00:08:10
Speaker
the final result does not necessarily indicate what the performance was. Like when you look at all L's are not created equal. All right. When, when you look at say the sporting Kansas city game, all right, I don't know what the expected goals in that game was.
00:08:30
Speaker
but I'd imagine it was not very high because they weren't playing well on offense. So when I'm looking at an L I'm very, I, I, I find the underlying numbers to be instructive sometimes in not making an excuse. That's one sound like that though.
00:08:48
Speaker
But it's okay. It's not about, it's not about excusing an L it's about, you know, what can we read into any of this moving forward? So like, if you have high XG in a game, but you don't score
00:09:06
Speaker
That means that you were playing well on offense in terms of generating chances, but you didn't finish. So you can kind of rightfully say, all right, if you keep playing that way moving forward and you're generating chances at that rate and you're still producing high expected goals, then you will start to score goals. And those are trends that you can always see in every season. And that's why it's valuable to look at. So that's why when I look at this earthquakes game,
00:09:36
Speaker
three even is an insanely high number of XG. All right. Anything above 2.0 is very, is very, very high. And honestly, if you're up at like 2.5 to three, you can rightfully say that like the way you played on offense
00:09:54
Speaker
could have very feasibly resulted in like three or four goals or even those outlier games where you see five or six, like that's how high XG that was. Well, I agree with that, but I also think that you, and I think you, you, you'll probably talk about the eye tests and how that matters in the sense of, I forgot to mention that, but
00:10:14
Speaker
this game didn't feel like a three XG game. It felt like a game where they were putting in chances and having like missing the biggest sitters in the world, which like that can be unlucky. But if you look at the run a form and you kind of look at what's been happening and people keep saying, Oh, look at this XG next game. No, but look at this XG next game. No, but look at this XG. It's like, okay,
00:10:38
Speaker
I'm happy with taking an XG look at my favorite number nine, a bear and saying, okay, what's, how can we find a better way to utilize him? Because clearly he's generating chances, but he's not finishing them.
00:10:52
Speaker
Right. Well, I think, uh, but I think the excuse half is my only problem. I think that my take initially, I'll just, I'll just be honest. I was thrown around the XG is fake made up stat that doesn't matter, which brought us to here, which is not a good take. And I am happy to admit that.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, what, what you said about the eye test is important because XG can be misleading. It can be misleading. I definitely have had individual games where I see Seattle or any, any team.
00:11:27
Speaker
where the XG is super high and it doesn't match up with the eye test at all. And I'm like, how, it did not feel like there was that many high quality chances in the game. How was the XG so high? There are definitely games like that. San Jose game was not one of those games I could name for like you, you even said they miss a lot of sitters. There was a lot of high
00:11:45
Speaker
when you miss that many high percentage chances in a game like that, that is unlucky. That is unlucky. And if you perform at that level over in extended sample size, those will be goals. Those will be goals eventually. Unless you know, you can be the most snake bit team of all time and be getting unlucky over a large sample size. Like there are examples of that. But generally speaking, if your XG numbers are
00:12:11
Speaker
are that high over an extended sample, you're going to see, you're going to see goals eventually. Like it's, that's why it's a useful indicator, you know? So that's, I mean, in terms of the earthquakes game, I'm not saying that the XG total excuses the loss. All right. But what I am saying is that if there's a reason for hope that this offense can start, you know, performing at a higher level going forward,
00:12:38
Speaker
It would be that they were getting those, the chances in that game that if you keep doing that over an extended sample, I think you will see them start to finish those chances right now. Really? No one on the team is finishing their chances. The only guy on the team that's scoring goals is Paul Rothrock. Okay.
00:13:01
Speaker
Paul Rothrock has been doing everything he can. Every time he's played, he's putting it in the back of the net. He single handedly tried to keep the U S open cup run alive. He scored a diving header in LA. He scored the game winner in Houston. He had a, yeah, he had the another open cup goal against the San Diego loyal, but
00:13:27
Speaker
You know, Paul Rothrock, man, he's only one guy. He, you can't task him with carrying the entire attack. There's just, you know, when you were preparing for the season, there's only so much you could have rightfully hedged on Paul Rothrock.
00:13:42
Speaker
And there's other guys on the team that needed to be picking up the slack and they haven't been finishing their chances. I, when I look at this offense, especially in the San Jose game, Raul Rui Diaz has been out the last few weeks with a hamstring injury. That's sort of coincided with when the goals dried up.
00:14:02
Speaker
I mean, he just really, he hasn't really played a lot this season. He's played like 200 and some odd minutes. Okay. So that's, he's not just the best finisher on the team. He's one of the best finishers in MLS.
00:14:12
Speaker
He's only played seven matches and only started two of the seven. And he was, he was one of the ones who missed multiple sitters in the San Jose game. That's, that's kind of what I'm saying, man. Like those two chances that Rui Diaz missed. Okay. There was one off the Reed Baker wedding cross where he, he just miss hit it. And then there was one off the layout shoe cross where he had the chance to, he was kind of trying to chest it in and just kind of, just kind of bottled it.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you for listening to the Sound Rit Heart Podcast Network, which now includes No Sonietes, Lobbing Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. We've been independent since August of 2023,
00:15:02
Speaker
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00:15:18
Speaker
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00:15:48
Speaker
But that doesn't seem like a striker who is not getting to the right place. That's that. I think you could argue XG on that. That's like a striker. Exactly. Exactly. Like how, how many games have you seen since he's been in Seattle where he's missed two chances like that in one game and how much, you know, I would put a lot of money on if there are two similar quality chances in the next game.
00:16:15
Speaker
that he's probably going to finish one. Yeah. So he, he, he in 32 minutes, he played 32 minutes. He had two shots on target, two shots off target. And he had, he completed eight of his passes, which a hundred percent in 58 minutes, a bear had two shots on target total.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, so I don't want to, I don't want to put this all on a bear. No, no, no. I'm just saying it's a good comparison of like, he was making it work for sure. Yeah. I'm more talking about like, uh, you know, my take previously, you know, guys aren't finishing their chances. A bear is guilty of that. He would probably tell you that XG champion.
00:16:54
Speaker
he leads the league and miss big chances, but that's a crazy stat. And I just don't think that that is going to, going to sustain based on his track record. Like I know everyone's frustrated with it right now because of how many bags, bad chances he's missed. My honest take on that is that if he continues getting big chances at that rate,
00:17:19
Speaker
you can go back to his track record with NYCFC. I mean, he's a pretty proven MLS goal scorer. He's a good finisher. I think he's a little snake bit right now. I think a bear assuming that everything else holds roughly equal
00:17:37
Speaker
I think he's going to end up with six to eight goals this season, which is that's fine for your backup nine, but whether he's getting unlucky right now, or if his finishing touch is just off, like it doesn't really matter. Like those chances aren't going in. And I don't know that to me seems like that's probably the biggest problem with, with the offense is that, you know,
Sounders' Injury Challenges
00:17:59
Speaker
At least in the last game, the chances were all there. And speaking in general with a bear, the chances have been there. He's just not finishing. Right. And you have to hope that he gets informed, which I think based on his track record that he probably will. But I agree. Diaz coming back and getting back to his, his form. That's the most important thing right now. The other big thing is getting Christian rolled on back. Christian rolled on has been in concussion protocol.
00:18:28
Speaker
since April, since the St. Louis game. And that's the second biggest issue with the offense. I mean, the whole offense is essentially based around two rolled ons on the right side of the field. You got one in midfield and one on the back line, and you basically spam, spam one or both of them, the ball on the right side, let them wreak havoc, create chances, put in service. Christian can score some goals.
00:18:56
Speaker
the whole, the whole offense runs through him. And I think you really, if anyone had any doubt or questions as to how valuable Christian rolled on is to this team, that should be extinguished now because you know, for all, for all the talk we just did about how, how high the XG was in the San Jose game,
00:19:16
Speaker
I mean, there were, there were multiple games in this run of form where the offense was not performing like that. The XG and the chances, uh, we're not there. And so when you look at those games, I think Christian's absence is probably the biggest factor. The offense hasn't really figured out how to run without him at the right mid.
00:19:38
Speaker
So I'm I'm pretty sure where we're gonna see that, you know, they play Portland tomorrow So we're gonna see I'm not sure if he's gonna start but assuming he's through concussion protocol and he's been in training and all that I'd imagine I'd imagine he'll start and probably play at least 60 70 minutes. I don't it's not like a
00:20:01
Speaker
It's not like a muscle injury, right? Where, where you need to ease your way into the full minute load necessarily. Like if he's symptom free and feeling good and you know, he might not be 90 fit yet could be the thing, but I think Christian's going to play the majority of the game tomorrow. And I think you're going to, my prediction is you're instantly going to see the offense look better. You're instantly going to see the offense look better. He makes that big a difference.
00:20:26
Speaker
People don't like to hear it, but everyone likes to think they have enough depth to withstand an MLS season like this. But if you just go down the list of who's been out in recent weeks, a lot of it is as simple as just getting guys back. I mean, Rui Diaz did his hamstring. Christian's been in concussion protocol.
00:20:46
Speaker
who got malaria, Kellen Rowe did his meniscus, Josh attention out of her quad, a bear earlier in the season pulled his hammy. A lot of the time it's as simple as getting your guys back. Look at sporting Kansas city right now. Look at sporting Kansas city. I think they're four one in one in their last six
00:21:03
Speaker
They were going into the game that they won in Seattle. They were averaging 0.3 points per game. And everyone was talking about how they're the worst team in the league. And they were points wise and record wise at that time. But the reality is they hadn't had either of their DP's Alan Palito or Gotti Kinda playing together in like a year and a half.
00:21:23
Speaker
Okay. The Seattle game was the first game where they both played together and they both got on the score sheet and they won the game. And now they're four one and one in their last six. A lot of these things come down to health sometimes. And I think that's part of it. But the problem with that is that you do, you need your depth to be able to sustain you sometimes. And Seattle didn't really prove in this last stretch that their depth can sustain them.
00:21:53
Speaker
in a very meaningful capacity. All right. They got, they got the Houston win that Houston had nine guys on the field. That's, that was probably a game where if it's 11 on 11, you're pretty happy to get out of Houston. Zero, zero thread bulls game was
00:22:11
Speaker
was better. Jordan Morris got a goal. He got his first goal since April 1st and he got injured on the play, which God, that was so tilting. I like, that was the biggest buzzkill probably I've ever seen after a goal. Lumen field, like the goal itself was so cathartic because the team hadn't been scoring. Jordan hadn't been scoring.
00:22:30
Speaker
And he gets this great goal from Leo Chiu, really nice finish right in front of goal. And then he knew he was injured. It was, it was apparent he was injured immediately the way he reacted and was moving. And it was just like, God damn it.
00:22:45
Speaker
Not again. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I'm on the play where he scores it. So it's not, it doesn't seem like it's that serious a groin injury. He seems to think he's going to be back in a couple of weeks, but just in the context of all the other injuries that have happened, it's just really
00:23:04
Speaker
obnoxious that it happened on the play where he scored. And so they hold on to win that game one zero, but by and large they really just couldn't withstand all the absences that they've had over the last few weeks.
00:23:21
Speaker
You know, that's probably they're getting guys back now. And I think that you'll see form turn around a little bit with the guys they got back, but there's just going to be points through the rest of the season where they have to lean on, on that depth again. And they need to be able to collect points like in those situations.
00:23:39
Speaker
Um, you can't just punt every game. Um, when you don't have your, your, your first choice guys, I mean, you got leagues cup coming up. Um, you'll have a playoff run, hopefully. Um, so Christian rolled on. He can't play every single game. You can't, he's not iron man. He's not going to be out there every week. They're going to have to rotate again. And so I would say overall,
00:24:08
Speaker
reasons for optimism would be that the offense looked a lot better in San Jose or against San Jose. And they're getting healthier. Rui Diaz is coming back. Christian Roldan is coming back. Jordan Morris theoretically shouldn't be out for all that much longer. Hopefully just one or two more games. And I think just those things right there, that's going to make a huge difference. But if I had to pick a reason for concern on the flip side of that,
00:24:36
Speaker
It would be that the, uh, the rotated depth lineups didn't perform very well over the last few weeks. They were, they were not taking points in games where you would, you would expect them to be able to take at least a point in a lot of the games where, where they've taken losses.
00:24:56
Speaker
that's kind of the two sides of the situation. Um, huge game tomorrow against Portland at Lumen field. And, um, they're going to need to be up for this game. The Portland timbers, this is their Superbowl. They live for this game. They don't seemingly really
00:25:17
Speaker
care that much about any other opponent. I don't know how else you explain the fact that they scored four goals in 19 minutes against Seattle at Providence park. It's the first game in April. It's they, they play angry. They play angry. They, they turn into the 1996 Chicago bulls every time these games
00:25:37
Speaker
They did. They seriously did look like they looked like real Madrid for those 20 minutes. They were scoring bicycle kicks and ripping off 90 or 90 yard counters, putting shots from outside the box, upper V
00:25:52
Speaker
They look like that's that's how they're gonna they're gonna do that again like I really don't think that Portland's gonna come here and bunker and and Play defensive like a lot of teams try to do here. I don't I don't if I'm Gio Savarese like I don't see any reason to do that the last like three or four times that Seattle and Portland have played
00:26:15
Speaker
It just seems like they're on some sort of just nuclear intensity level that Seattle can't really quite equal and they couldn't equal it at all in the last game. Um, and they gave up four goals in 19 minutes. So, I mean, I don't know. They gotta be ready for that. They gotta be ready for that. That's coming again.
00:26:32
Speaker
that's coming again. Portland's also in a bad run of form again. You know, they were, they were struggling before that first game and the whole talk was, Oh, this is going to jumpstart our season. Like this is the jolt we needed. Um, and then they went back to being pretty middling again. And then now, so now they're like, we need the boost again. Like a road win in Seattle will boost us again. So they're going to come out firing. I'm pretty sure like,
00:26:58
Speaker
You know, they're kind of a, they're kind of a sit back and hit you on the counter type of team traditionally. Um, so in that sense, you know, you might, you might see those tactics and that's how they normally play. But in terms of, you know, going into like a full on shell and trying to gut out a zero zero, like you see, you see teams do when they come to Seattle a lot.
00:27:22
Speaker
If I'm from the timbers, I see no reason at all to do that based on how the last few of these games have gone So I mean I'll just I don't know I mean I'm waiting to see I guess if Seattle is gonna be up for that because they haven't been the last few few games and
00:27:39
Speaker
And they need to be, they need to be in this game based on the form that they've been in. So I'm looking forward to it though. These Darby games are, they're always a fun time and it's going to be a sick day because you've got the double header with OL rain playing right after against the Portland thorns. So double header action. I definitely encourage everyone to, to stay for both games and check out the rain. They've got a lot of
00:28:08
Speaker
I believe they're second on the NWSL table right now, so they're in good form, and they're a really fun team to watch. The last doubleheader where they did this was awesome. That was a great event. They do it up big. There's all kinds of stuff going around the stadium.
00:28:28
Speaker
It's pretty sweet. It'll be fun, but it's definitely, um, pressure. The pressure's on a little bit. Um, you know, as tough as the, as these last few weeks have been Seattle is still technically first place first place.
Sounders' Table Position vs. Form
00:28:41
Speaker
You can't complain. You can't say anything bad about the Seattle Sanders football club right now. They are in first place in the West. Look, I'm not saying don't complain, but I just, I do think that's pretty funny. Like how is this possible? Like after every loss they've taken over the last few weeks, I pull up the table. I'm like, all right, who leaped them?
00:28:58
Speaker
No one ever does. Okay. So part of the bottom, the bottom and the top of the table are separated by like eight points right now. I think there's that. And then the more important caveat is that they've played the most games out of everybody. Yeah. I can't remember the last time we haven't had a midweek game.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah. So whether it's open cup, Seattle's played 16 games and a couple other teams have played 16, but everyone else right below them on the table has games in hand and say, I mean, all right. Big thing to remember here is St. Louis and LAFC who are tied.
00:29:36
Speaker
tied for, uh, well, so st. Louis is in second in LA season third. They're tied on 25 points, but st. Louis has the total wins tiebreaker, but either way they've both st. Louis has three games in hand and LFC has four games in hand because they're in concrete half champions league. And I think that's actually a good segue. Perfect transition before. God damn. Um, yeah, that was clean. That was fire.
00:30:01
Speaker
They're playing in CONCACAF champions league. They played the first leg earlier this week against club Leon of Liga max and it's two legs series and LFC
00:30:17
Speaker
did not look good in that first game. They kind of got run over. They did. Um, Steve Chirundolo, their coach even admitted it. He said it was extremely lucky that they were only down there down to one, um, uh, club lay on, uh, went up to zero and had, I, I believe they had a goal called off. Um, so it could have been even worse and LAFC would have been down to zero, but Denny Spewanga, uh, scored on literally like the last kick of the game to make it to one, which that's a huge lifeline.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah, that puts them right in it like yes as poorly as the game went for them like they have every chance still to win this series taking it back to BMO stadium like they're there by no means out of it, but I think it's fair to say you know every game in CCL is is a test and
00:31:09
Speaker
I think it's pretty fair to say they did not really pass their first test in that road. Like a road leg in a two game CCL series. Your goal is to get out of there, zero, zero, or with a draw in some other type of capacity. See, I don't pass their test last year. I'll just say that. I'll say that they want everyone can do it. Not everyone can do it. I mean, they, uh,
00:31:35
Speaker
They, they played, um, Puma's to a two, two in the road leg in CCL last year. That's a thrilling game. That was a good game. Yeah. Lidero had the penalty kick at the very end. Yeah. Let's just say there were some opposing fans, not very, they were not happy about that. I think both of Seattle's goals in the game were penalties.
00:31:55
Speaker
If you can get out of the first leg in a, in a draw as the road team, that's a phenomenal result. Like as soon as Seattle did that last year, I was like, all right, they have a great chance. They have a great chance to win because you know, all you need to, all you need to do is win by, by one goal. Yeah.
00:32:12
Speaker
if LAFC wins by one goal, uh, in like two, which is on this Sunday on Sunday, um, then it goes to extra time. And you also really like, you know, say it's one zero, you really can't concede. No, you really can't. So they're, they're up against it a little bit. They're up against it a little bit. And I'm just, I just want to say like,
00:32:35
Speaker
They better not choke. They better not choke. That said, LFC choking would be pretty funny. It would be pretty funny because you know, the way they talk about themselves, um, both within the club and their fan base, you know, they're, they're feeling themselves right now they are. And rightfully so. Oh, absolutely. I would not take that away from them. No, they do. They, they kind of run the league right now. They have a leg to stand on. They have a leg to stand on.
00:33:04
Speaker
But at the same time, this is sort of like the next frontier for them to become like the preeminent dominant MLS club.
00:33:14
Speaker
With that in mind, like the kind of status that LAFC has within the league right now, for their own sake, they can't, they can't choke this. They can't choke this. They got it. They got to win this. I'm not really a fan of like saying like, you know, gotta win that game, but they kind of do for the expectations that they've put on themselves, both through how they've played, which has been
LAFC in the CONCACAF Champions League
00:33:38
Speaker
phenomenal. I mean, they've been the best team in the league.
00:33:40
Speaker
Um, all the way since the start of last year, no question, no question. Um, the way they balanced CCL this year has been extremely impressive. Probably the best job I've seen an MLS club do of
00:33:56
Speaker
playing in CCL and maintaining their league form. Seattle actually did a pretty good job of that last year while CCL was going. And then after CCL is when it all fell apart. Cause they push all those games together that you had to postpone. So that's one thing I'll say about LAFC too. They
00:34:16
Speaker
they're talking a big game about how they've managed to balance both so effectively and you know I'm giving them credit for that I'm giving them credit for that but they've also they did it for Seattle to last year where they tweaked the schedule so they didn't have as many games and as many league games while they were in Champions League but
00:34:36
Speaker
So that's really that's what's allowed la fc. They haven't had to rotate like a crazy amount They really have not if you look at their starting 11s week to week. Yeah, they have been rotating a little bit But I don't I don't know. I look at their lineups every week and belong is always in there. They was always in there a poku Ilie They rotate their cbs and their full backs a fair amount
00:35:02
Speaker
and they've done a great job at building that roster. So they really do have the depth to be able to do that. But like what I'm saying is like all their big dogs, it seems like they're just playing in every league game and then also playing in every champions league game when their schedule gets crazy because they've, uh, because it's going to be back loaded with all these games that they haven't been playing during CCL.
00:35:22
Speaker
which is for right now. Yeah. They're not going to, they're not going to be able to do that. They're going to actually have to rotate. Um, and they're also probably going to have to contend with a little bit of, uh, fatigue and potentially some injuries. You know, I definitely like,
00:35:42
Speaker
They have to play st louis like that game was postponed and then they also have to play atlanta already And then what however many other games they need to play the fixture congestion is coming for them Yeah, my point and you know, it's entirely possible that they can just keep ripping through the league and uh Stay at two point whatever points per game they're at. I I do think their roster is good enough to do that
00:36:08
Speaker
But they're gonna have to prove they can do that for sure because I don't I don't know am I wrong in thinking that it feels like they didn't get tested with Squad rotation No, I extra congestion as much as Seattle did last year like I could be tripping on that I think no I think you're correct in the sense that like they have it they've been solid like they've been healthy clearly. They have a good training staff I mean that's probably part of it who knows training staff great roster
00:36:34
Speaker
Great roster, good depth, and also, honestly, they haven't had to play that many games. I'm looking at their schedule right now. It was like they played a midweek game against sporting and drew that game. They played RSL at home, and I believe that was at home, maybe that was away, but they beat them.
00:36:57
Speaker
and then you had the earthquakes like they haven't played anyone really and then they they just bounced out of the open cup because they didn't care so they had they had they had between the last league game that they played which was five twenty
00:37:14
Speaker
in this final match was on 531. So they had essentially 11 days of rest for anyone who is anyone between those games. The games are going to pile up on them and I'm more, you know, I'm not predicting that that's necessarily going to nuke their form or anything. I'm just more curious to see like
00:37:35
Speaker
how they handle it when the fixture congestion really turns up, you know, and we'll see how that goes. But they're going to have basically a game every four days for the next like month. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:50
Speaker
And we're going to, if they can average over two points per game, doing that, I mean more power to him. No one can really tell them much right now. Other than that, other than that, they didn't play well at all in the, in the first leg and that the pressure is really on them in the second leg. It's hard for me to imagine that they're going to go home and play as poorly as they did in the road leg.
00:38:20
Speaker
I'd be sure that would surprise me. That would surprise me. I think they're, I think they're going to turn up. I just wonder realistically what happens when Leon scores a goal. That's the thing that they really can't concede. Yeah. I mean, they can. So if they, if they take three, one, then, yeah. What do you think about, what do you think about it goes to add an extra time or to penalties? What are you looking at there? You think?
00:38:48
Speaker
I would think that the longer the game goes, the more it kind of plays in their favor. I agree with that at home. I think if they, if it goes, so if they, if they win the in regulation by one goal, that's automatically goes to extra time because it would be tied on aggregate and there's no road goals in the final. So it is. Yeah. I mean, if there are road goals, it'd be a completely different story. If there are road, okay. If there, if there were road goals,
00:39:16
Speaker
that belong ago at the, at the end, I would have, I would have made the two one a pretty like it would have been an actively good result without the road goals. It's it's still the two one. Is it not terrible? No, to be honest, that gives you plenty of a chance to win, but
00:39:34
Speaker
It puts you up way more against it than you're fighting. If you had the rules tiebreaker, because now if you concede a two, one, that all that does is get you to extra time, which could be advantageous for them, but like that's still a very 50 50 pressure packed situation. Yeah.
00:39:52
Speaker
You never want to have to be in that position. You have to, if they concede, they have to score three times and not concede again to win and regulate. It makes it really hard to win. They do have the roster to score three times though. I will say they do, but I mean, club lane took it, took it to him. I thought LAFC was as I understood it.
00:40:11
Speaker
Favored and they were very comfortably Considered a better team even by people who follow League MX. Yeah really consider They're a kind of mid. Yeah, we got max team this year to my understanding I don't really follow we got a max max knowers over here. Yeah, but
00:40:28
Speaker
Um, they're not considered like the LAFC of league IMAX. No. So I, I, I think that LAFC should be able to handle them at home. But like, if you just look at how the first, first match went, they were under it. Like the whole game. Yeah. Toronto called it their worst performance of the season. He said that, uh, they can't afford to play like that if they, if they want to have a chance at winning on Sunday, but they better win on Sunday.
00:40:53
Speaker
I think we're good to wrap the sounders and MLS section right there. We're going to jump into some Seahawks next. I I'll make a confession real quick. The Seahawks audio we've recorded a few days ago. We've, we've taken a couple of runs at recording this and timing and certain things, you know, tweaks I wanted to make have kind of
00:41:17
Speaker
Pushed it back, but I laid down or Noah and I laid down some red hot Seahawks audio as part of all that that that we're gonna fire off I think it came out pretty good So I'm really excited to talk some Seahawks and just get back into talking about this team I think I'm gonna start by talking about last season.
Seattle Seahawks' Season Start
00:41:36
Speaker
They were expected to be terrible All right, and I totally bought into that
00:41:42
Speaker
They traded Russell Wilson, who had been the quarterback for the last 10 years and played it at a very high level, won a Super Bowl, signed a big old contract. They traded him. My reaction to that trade, I'll tell you, Noah, straight up, I was like, this is a bad idea.
00:41:58
Speaker
Yeah, this is a bad idea. You shouldn't trade Russell until you have like a contingency plan. Okay, like going into a situation where you don't have a quarterback. That's probably the most dangerous game you can play as an NFL team. You can end up in purgatory for decades doing that.
00:42:16
Speaker
And when I saw they traded him, you know, I liked the haul they got back in terms of value, but it didn't seem like they had any plan at quarterback. And I thought this was a situation where they were just going to be like middling and putting out these like league average game manager quarterbacks because they traded their one that's actually dynamic and that's actually a franchise quarterback.
00:42:41
Speaker
Thought they were gonna suck man, and you can ask any of my friends who I'm on group chats with where we talk about the Hawks I was adamantly campaigning This is embarrassing. I was adamantly campaigning For them to start drew lock who they got back in the trade with the Broncos I was I was fully in on that because my logic was
00:43:07
Speaker
Drew Lock, there's at least some sort of unknown there, okay?
00:43:13
Speaker
He, you know, he didn't play well with the Broncos. People kind of think he's a bust, but he's clearly physically talented. He's like six, five rocket arm. He's good college quarterback, second round pick. Like maybe if you throw him in the Seahawks system with Pete coaching him up, there's like untapped upside there. That's the only hope that I saw because the alternative was Geno Smith.
00:43:40
Speaker
And I can't wait to talk about some Geno Smith because I think this is one of the, it's one of my favorite sports stories of all time. It's one of my favorite sports stories of all time. I'm dead serious.
00:43:56
Speaker
And on top of that, it's one of the funniest sports stories of all time. So the combination of legitimate inspiration that I take from it and the comedy of this whole situation, it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. Geno Smith had been a backup quarterback for almost a decade before last season.
00:44:21
Speaker
He was drafted by the New York Jets in the second round 10 or so years ago, never panned out. He was written off famously, but he didn't write back. I was waiting for it. He was written off. People thought this guy is nothing more than a backup quarterback in the NFL.
00:44:43
Speaker
All right. He bounced around the league a little bit, never got a starting job. With Biden his time, backed up some good quarterbacks, backed up Eli Manning, I think, backed up Phillip Rivers, backed up Russell, but
00:44:58
Speaker
ain't nobody in the entire United States think that Geno Smith was going to start for the Seahawks last year and it was going to go well. I didn't think there was any way. I didn't think there was any way that after 10 years of sitting on the bench, this guy, what, he's just going to come back in and light it up and make the Pro Bowl. Like, what are we even talking about? Pete and Pete would gas him up in the pressers too. And I was like, Pete,
00:45:21
Speaker
Can you fucking just stop with the Gino thing like just start lock it'll be more fun He's gonna suck anyway Don't give me this like Gino is the guy stuff Pete I thought all that man. I thought all that Pete doubters Pete doubter coin is we're gonna talk about the Pete doubters We're gonna talk about the Pete doubters. We're gonna talk about the Gino doubters, too
00:45:46
Speaker
But anyway, Gino won the starting job in training camp and Drew Lock was the backup.
00:45:55
Speaker
Gino's the starting quarterback. We had all those draft picks from Denver, all right? So Denver to get Russell Wilson, shipped us Drew Locke, but also like five draft picks, like I don't even know what the hall was. There might've been multiple, there was multiple first rounders involved. There was like a second rounder involved. There was either like third, fourth, and fifth rounders. Every draft pick that they have, they threw it at us to get Russell.
00:46:23
Speaker
Pete and John were like, all right bet we're gonna we're gonna take that and you can have them and dude Everyone on Twitter and nationally was talking about how bad we got fleece. Do you remember that? I do remember it and I was I was all the pundits were going crazy. The pundits were going crazy But also like people started to talk about the team like like we were a fucking joke, you know
00:46:50
Speaker
which I honestly appreciated because I was ready to go back to the days of like Seahawks being like a thing where we didn't just have a bunch of fake fans yeah you know no and we needed a weed out I could I could see that but uh
00:47:07
Speaker
It's still kind of bothered me because like, you know, as down as I was on the quarterback situation, like the people talking about the Seahawks, like they were some kind of meme team, like that's not going to be competitive. Like, like we're the New York Jets of the last like few years that pissed me off.
00:47:27
Speaker
it was a jets type move though well so it seemed yeah so it's like and i guess that's fair like i get why people were talking like that and i i was doing that myself to a lesser degree so it's not that i don't get where it came from but it irritated me because like when people were talking about oh like the hawks are tanking the hawks the hawks don't tank dude
00:47:50
Speaker
Pete that that's not like something It kind of like surprised me that people don't understand that Pete and John but but mainly Pete Like that's not how he thinks of football like he thinks of football he doesn't he doesn't think of it as like a
00:48:08
Speaker
You know, I'm trying to game the operation by and I'm going to lose games intentionally to get a higher draft picks so I can like game the system to win later. No, fuck that. Like he's about competing every year. And that's kind of what I what I've always liked and appreciated about Pete. Like he would never tank. And the whole time people were talking about us tanking. I was like, you guys can talk about us taking all you want. We're going to win seven to nine games like like there is no tank in here. It's not how we roll.
00:48:38
Speaker
Really only cared about one game, and that was genuinely the Denver game playing Denver week one primetime Dude anything could happen, but if we win this game we win the trade to my mind I was more nervous like watching that game like I always I always tell people this when I talk about like my emotions watching that game and
00:49:03
Speaker
That literally felt like watching like, uh, like a final, like it felt like a super bowl. Like, yeah, it felt like it did. Like, you know, when you're watching a final or, or the super bowl and like, you're really tuned into every single moment, every single play. And every time a guy makes a play, you think about like the significance that that play could have, or if his particular player is doing well, you're like, wow, this is like legacy stuff.
00:49:31
Speaker
We could be witnessing right now every play every moment feels Powerful and significant that's how I fucking felt watching Week one versus the Denver Broncos which is crazy because it was so fun to normally I'm totally good with skipping to the second half of a Seahawks game because I don't want to watch the first half anyway and get my hopes up Yeah, so it's just like I might as well, but I was glued to the TV that guy I couldn't I'm glad you I'm glad you felt that because
00:50:01
Speaker
I don't get that nervous for games anymore. I've been working in sports for so long that I'm kind of desensitized to the nerves and the stakes of it. But that game, my heart was racing.
00:50:18
Speaker
Like like, you know, there are specific games that get me going like like the ccl final and all the mls cups playoff games Like those like I get juice for and I've I 100 like felt that during that game and That game was just the prelude man. That game was just the prelude to one of the funniest seasons that I have ever seen
00:50:41
Speaker
And I think you really like the you got to talk about Gino as the big part of this and I want to talk about something with Gino because there's been something that's kind of pissing me off with this with kind of the rhetoric that's been going around over the offseason.
00:50:57
Speaker
Gino signed a contract extension. He got paid a bunch of money Not even that much Comparatively to some of the quarterback contracts you see out there. I think he took a bit of a Of a team friendly deal because he recognized what the vibes are right now. It's all in the incentives He still got he still got paid
00:51:16
Speaker
there is kind of a take among not as much Seahawks fans but some Seahawks fans but more so nationally that it seems like people are talking about Gino like this is like fool's gold like he kind of it's like a nice story he played some good football but
00:51:36
Speaker
He was kind of mid at the at the end of last season like You know, he's not Patrick Mahomes like he wasn't that good Like it's kind of like questionable that the Seahawks paid him You hear all this stuff out there, right? I don't know who you all are talking about with that. I don't know who you're talking about You're not talking about the same guy that I'm talking about
00:52:06
Speaker
You're not talking about the guy that I watched play football last year. What's your criteria for what he needed to do to earn that extension and earn his respect? Is it passing yards? He had 4,200 of those, top two or three in the NFC, I think. Touchdowns?
00:52:28
Speaker
through 30 of them most in the NFC actually efficiency and accuracy dude completed 70% of his passes people don't really
Geno Smith's Breakout Season
00:52:37
Speaker
do that that much anymore that's like some Drew Brees shit that was a storyline on the team for years Russell was like this is the year guys like I'm gonna complete 70 Pete's like Russ he's gonna get 70 this year Gino goes out there his first year starting in 10 years he completes 70 off rip so
00:52:55
Speaker
Oh, rushing yards, too. Dual threat. You want a dual threat quarterback? 5.4 yards per carrier, whatever it was. So... Pro Bowl. Pro Bowl. Put some respect on his name. I really don't know what we're talking about with this idea that he fell off or wasn't very good. You had to have not watched the games. You had to have not watched the games.
00:53:20
Speaker
I watched the games. I watched every single game. And I know the stretches that people are talking about where his play dipped a little bit. You got to look at the big picture with these things, man. The guy threw 30 touchdowns, 4,200 yards, 100 rating. That's just as good a quarterback rating as Russell was ever putting up when he was the quarterback.
00:53:43
Speaker
Only 11 interceptions to only 11 picks. Okay, but here's so here's another talking point I've seen this take a lot. I'm gonna address this one. So but also Russ gave up 11 Interceptions last okay Russ Meanwhile, it's a good point Russ. Meanwhile was leading one of the most incompetent NFL offenses I have ever seen
00:54:06
Speaker
It's unreal that they put that out some some of those games gooby-doo style it I couldn't believe what I was watching I was having so because of the trade We had the Broncos first round pick so there was vested interest in them being bad Because that meant the worst that they finished the higher draft pick that we get so I probably had the most fun I've ever had watching football and
00:54:34
Speaker
Just following the Broncos descent into chaos and anarchy. Yeah, like I think one of my favorite moments was No, or a KJ Hamler former Penn State player
00:54:47
Speaker
Hit just a perfect route, wide open in the end zone, standing there waving his arms at Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson just overthrows everyone. He takes his helmet off and just slams it on the turf and walks off just to lose the game. I remember that play. Russell threw it to the completely wrong guy. KJ Hamler was wide open, wide open, easy touchdown. It's fourth down. The game is literally on the line. If you get in the zone right there, the game's over. It's a dub. All you have to do is throw the designed route.
00:55:16
Speaker
KJ Hamler. He's wide-ass open touchdown. You have a dub instead He I have no idea what he's looking at. He fucking throws a Absolute seed into Courtney Sutton with Stefan Gilmore one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL on him and the dude breaks up the pass easily and the games over and they take the L it was every week like that with that team and
00:55:39
Speaker
Every game every Broncos game I watched and I watched a lot It was it was like five or six different things like that and every week I had the greatest time Watching it. It was so funny. Nathaniel Hackett their coach Last year. I love that guy. I think he's probably my favorite NFL coach of all time the abject
00:56:03
Speaker
Chaos and incompetence that he injected into that franchise was second to none, and it was so beautiful to watch because every single L that they racked gave us a higher draft pick, and we ended up with the number five overall pick, man. Number five overall pick. That is crazy. Meanwhile, you've got Gino throwing for 4,200 yards, 30 touchdowns, 100 rating, and making the Pro Bowl. I just, going to get him back to my point from earlier, like,
00:56:31
Speaker
I don't really know how you could look at how he played last year and have this contrarian doubt that he's not the guy. What were you watching? I don't get it. What games were you watching? Every week, this guy was bawling out of his mind. Some of the throws he was making, I couldn't believe what I was watching. I literally couldn't believe what I was watching. He would hit these throws.
00:56:56
Speaker
that if Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes did it, I'd have been like, damn, that's like Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes just doing their thing. Regular people can't make a throw like that. Gino did that, and he did that a lot.
00:57:08
Speaker
like multiple times a game. We also lost multiple games, multiple games, where Gino played out of his mind and the defense gave up like 42 points. He's like Paul Rothrock, man. He can only do so much. He can only do so much. If the offense puts up 380, 400 yards, we score 38 points.
00:57:33
Speaker
And Gino's lighting it up all day and we take the loss. That's not the quarterback's fault. It kind of blows my mind that people look at quarterback wins and losses as like the be all end all like that, you know, like, oh, like they're like the Seahawks went nine and eight. How good could Gino have really been?
00:57:51
Speaker
You don't know football, if that's your take. And I don't really know football either, but you really don't know football. Like if you look at a game with the I can name two games, Seahawks games last year off the top of my head, the Raiders game and the Saints game where Gino literally was going nuts all day.
00:58:12
Speaker
all day. If you even look at NFL lost your own quarterback index where they ranked all sixty eight starting quarterbacks. Guess where he lands top ten. He's number nine behind Jared Goff and two. Okay, so and here's the thing about that.
00:58:32
Speaker
I see very little reason why Gino isn't gonna take a step forward this year compared to where he was last year. The conventional wisdom, the take if you're trying to be a contrarian is, well, you know, he played some good football, but like, he got pretty lucky or like, people love pointing out like, turnover worthy throws,
00:58:59
Speaker
Get out of here with turnover-worthy throws, okay? If the DB doesn't pick it off, it's not a pick, all right? And if you're gonna start just adding interceptions to every quarterback's tally that had turnover-worthy throws, you gotta do that with Josh Allen. You gotta do that with Patrick Mahomes. You gotta do that with all the... That's why you have good receivers, though. Yeah, I mean... Two. Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
It's just your nitpicking. You're nitpicking because you don't want to admit that he's that good. You don't want to admit it. You're nitpicking because you have priors that you want confirmed. That's all you're doing. You had your priors. It upsets you that Gino played that well because it went against your priors and you can't admit it. You can't admit it. That's sad. Take the L. Take the L. He proved you wrong every week. You already took the L with that take.
00:59:53
Speaker
And the way his contract turn over worthy throws, I think that shit is ridiculous. The way his contract is structured too, it's not a huge hit to the Seahawks overall. It's not even close to what Russ was absolutely demolishing off of, you know, man, I don't even know the, remember the figures on how much money the Broncos paid Russ. It's a lot.
01:00:13
Speaker
Like when he was at the Hawks he was just eating up so much cap and now you have a guy Who let's say he does but let's say he does bust maybe not this year Maybe next year you now have the space to figure it out, and it's not a huge deal for sure like you know That's a great point the contract is very team-friendly, but my thing is like I really you know we'll see how it pans out, but I
01:00:40
Speaker
If you think about how quarterbacks develop, they usually take a leap between their first year and their second year. If you look at the good quarterbacks in the league, that's usually how it goes. They have their struggles in their first year, it's not perfect, and then second and third year they progress forward.
01:01:00
Speaker
People aren't really allowing for the possibility that Gino could be in for a leap like that Only because he's 32 if he was 24 and the Seahawks had drafted him like, you know where the Jets drafted him and they had let him play a year and He played how he did last year people would be talking about him Taking like a nuclear step into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL
01:01:27
Speaker
like y'all realize that right like better stats than Tom Brady last year so he had better stats than most of the other quarterbacks out there I thought he was a top five to seven quarterback like straight up like I watch a lot of the NFL there wasn't that many guys out there that were out playing Gino you know they're what they're I'm not saying he was Josh Allen Pat Mahomes Joe burrow
01:01:47
Speaker
But he was he was closer to that level Than people are actually giving him credit for like that might I might be going too high with these takes but he wasn't he was not like he really was not like just look at the numbers, you know, like if you think I'm Giving too hard to take like I don't know what to tell you like the stats literally prove your take wrong in my take, right? so like I don't know what to tell you but my point is
01:02:13
Speaker
Like, there's a very, at bare minimum, there's a great possibility that Gino is gonna improve. Think about it. He hadn't played in 10 years. He hadn't played in 10 years. This is the first time he actually has game reps and game film to look at. You know, what could I have done better there? How did I miss that read?
01:02:37
Speaker
What throw was there when I made like the wrong throw? What could I have done better? This is the first time he has his own, a full season of his own tape to look at and work on those things, drill those things, fine tune, improve.
01:02:53
Speaker
He's also an incredibly smart quarterback. I like watching Gino play football so much more than I like watching Russell play football, because Gino is a smart quarterback. He's a tactician. He's got rhythm. He's got timing. His pre-snap reads are lights out. The way he diagnoses defenses, you can see in games. You don't even have to know football that well to see how well he anticipates, how well he reads the game.
01:03:21
Speaker
Russell was an agent of chaos. The whole game plan was essentially we snap the ball. He's going to run around and he's going to fire it into the abyss. And he's really got really good deep ball. So that's going to work most times. Do you know the tactician out there a full off season of reps to fine tune and improve that stuff? That's that's going to be sick. I think he's going to take a step forward.
01:03:49
Speaker
Because the Denver Broncos were a disastrous tire fire, Seahawks got the number five overall pick. And there was a lot of debate as to what they should do with that pick. The general consensus was that they needed help along the front seven. I agreed with that general consensus. I thought that
01:04:10
Speaker
You know, the weakness of the team, the reason that they only went nine and eight despite having a top five Pro Bowl quarterback was because the front, the front seven was terrible. And the teams were putting up four or 500 yards a game. They were dropping 30, 40 points. It was infuriating to watch. Seahawks football is supposed to be all about defense, physicality. It just hasn't been like that for the last four years, four or five years on that side of the ball.
01:04:37
Speaker
But anyway, due to that issue, the conventional wisdom was they need to draft a defensive lineman in the top five.
Devin Witherspoon: A New Legion of Boom?
01:04:47
Speaker
And the whole thing was that.
01:04:50
Speaker
the best player that was going to be available there, Jalen Carter from Georgia. He had some off field issues and concerns that had teams questioning whether they should draft him that high, very talented player, but his off the field stuff. And it seemed like there was just like concerns over his dedication to football, like how much he really loves and lives and breathes football for it to be a top five pick.
01:05:16
Speaker
So I wanted Seattle to take him. I thought it was worth the risk. If you read anything about like the people who know stuff about the draft, the dude's football acumen was not even in the remotest of question. So I figured just take him.
01:05:34
Speaker
And you can keep his head on straight like Pete and John, you know They've had it actually a couple situations where they've tried to do that and that's backfired But this guy was so good. I was tantalized by the upside. Um But I wanted to talk about the player that they did end up taking at five who they passed on Jalen Carter for Devin Witherspoon
01:05:56
Speaker
The whole draft was fire. I'll just say that real quick. JSN, perfect pick, exactly what Gino needs. I think that's a huge thing that's going to unlock the offense even more and get Gino's numbers even better. And then if you go down the list, the thing I like overall about the draft was how it seemed like they just picked players from all the big schools that are really good at football. I feel like in the last few years, their drafting has become like
01:06:25
Speaker
They get too cute with it. I swear like so the Eagles had the most widely praised draft this year All they did was take all the guys from Georgia. Yeah That's literally all they did like everyone's like Howie Roseman
01:06:42
Speaker
The birds GM. What a genius. This is the greatest draft I've ever seen. How did he do this? How does he stock up like this from here? And then you look at who they picked. It's literally just guys from Georgia. And then there's like an Alabama guy and like a Michigan guy.
01:06:57
Speaker
You're like okay, like that's I guess how you get praise from the draft pungent pundit class But like I say that like jokingly, but like that is good strategy That's smart right those schools have the best football teams that means they probably have the best football players Literally just take the guys from fucking Michigan, LSU, Georgia
01:07:21
Speaker
all the most Alabama Ohio State all the most basic Penn State Penn State in there just all the most basic Mexico State and definitely don't take anyone any football player well actually that's funny because the Seahawks drafted a player from New Mexico who I'm really excited about and New Mexico's football team is terrible I never thought we would have anyone get drafted
01:07:43
Speaker
But uh Devin Witherspoon they ended up taking him over Jalen Carter And I think the consensus was this was one of the best blue chip players in the class So no one really questioned it. It's not like they took a Lot of criticism for it. Everyone's like oh, yeah, I totally get why Seattle pick that guy even though Jalen Carter was there But I oh god. I fucking love this pick. I love this pick. This is such a good pick and
01:08:09
Speaker
And I'm going to explain to you not just why this was a good pick, but why they had to pick this guy. They had to pick this guy. Okay. Devin Witherspoon, cornerback from University of Illinois. No, you said you watched him play when he was in college quite a bit now.
01:08:26
Speaker
I did, I saw him, I mean I'm a big 10, big 10, big 10, what, something like that. Big 10 guy, big 10 guy, went to Penn State, saw him play at Nebraska, yeah at Nebraska as well, and dude it just up.
01:08:42
Speaker
Menace on the field. I mean there's really no other way to describe the way that he plays like I mean, I think you had said this at some point where He just plays like the old lob guys like he just crushes people he loves to play the second he steps on that field is like I
01:09:01
Speaker
It's over for you. Just honestly if you haven't done it yet go YouTube his college highlights. It's the sickest college football highlight reel I've ever seen like defensive player wise like you know you could throw some some like wide receivers and quarterbacks out there that probably have some Like pretty yeah, like you know but like as far as a defensive highlight reel every single one pops
01:09:29
Speaker
Every single one pops, you know, and that would be one thing but it's about the way he plays the game. Okay. This dude, it's part of it is because he was wearing 31. But when he hits guys, they feel it. It literally looks like Cam Chancellor.
01:09:46
Speaker
He takes your soul. He does. They haven't had a player like that since Cam Chancellor that really instills fear in you. Devin Witherspoon is gonna instill fear, okay? You can tell from watching him play.
01:10:03
Speaker
Some people are concerned that he's only 5'10". I'm not concerned about that at all. If you watch those highlights that I'm talking about, you're not going to notice that he's 5'10". His coverage grades from PFF were insane. However much stock you put in those, if you grade out above 90, you're balling out there.
01:10:23
Speaker
So he hits like cam Chancellor and then the other thing I love about him is he loves to talk shit Yeah, loves to talk the whole game. He's out there. He is just chirping He's letting the wide receivers hear it. He's getting in their head the whole he never stops. He never stops He's talking the whole time. It's really fun to watch and you know who that reminds me of I
01:10:47
Speaker
Richard Sherman. You're telling me we're talking about a guy who hits like Cam Chancellor and talks like Richard Sherman. Sign me up. Oh my god. Sign me up. I just I can't wait to watch this guy play and like I said like
01:11:04
Speaker
The way he plays football is like that's the Seahawks brand. When we think about the Seahawks, LOB days, that's what it was. Physical brash. I'm going to, I'm going to hit you so hard that you're going to feel it. You're going to feel me out there on the field. And then I'm going to let you hear about it too, because I'm better than you.
01:11:28
Speaker
That kind of stuff, that's why we all loved Richard Sherman. That's why he was so fun to watch, right? And remember, this is like a guy from an Illinois team that almost beat Michigan.
01:11:40
Speaker
they had one of the best defenses in the country. And he was one of the, and he was the best player on that defense. So, I mean, it's just a great pick, man. And like what I was thinking about with it was like how glad I am that like Pete and John are in control of that decision and not the fans. Cause like, if it was me, if it's me making that call based on what I know, I was taking, I would have taken Jalen Carter, but Pete and John, they're actually behind the scenes, like evaluating it.
01:12:07
Speaker
And I don't think I doubt they ever had. I think they would have taken Will Anderson over Witherspoon if he was there. But I don't think they had any doubt that if it fell the way it did and Witherspoon was there and Carter was still there, I think they were going Witherspoon. And I'm just like, oh, like now looking into Witherspoon like I have, like, thank God that that we took him and not Jalen Carter. Jalen Carter could still be great for Philadelphia. But like, I just think that this that this dude
01:12:37
Speaker
is going to be so fun. So fun to watch. He plays Seahawks football. He has guess swagger. He, uh, he, it's a position to need, you know,
01:12:49
Speaker
I thought Michael Jackson, I only remember that's his name because his name is Michael Jackson. Not to be confused with. I thought he played pretty well last year, but Witherspoon's going to be an upgrade. Not to belabor the point, I have one more Witherspoon story, actually, that I wanted to tell you, Noah, and then we're going to sign off up on out of here. So I was listening last night to
01:13:14
Speaker
the real Hawk talk Hawk blogger podcast because I listened to them for to get a lot of my Seahawks news and Hawk blogger the the host He was talking about a story that he heard From it was so he was listening to a podcast where they were interviewing Devin Witherspoon's was either his defensive coordinator or his position coach Can't remember exactly which one the guy's name was Aaron Henry. I do. I do want to shout out his name and
01:13:43
Speaker
But he was one of Devin Witherspoon's coaches at University of Illinois and he was telling a story about when he knew Devin Witherspoon was different. I want you to listen to this story because this is crazy.
01:14:02
Speaker
It's University of Illinois football practice. Best defense in the country, so I imagine it's a very competitive type setting. They're going at it with the offense. The offense is running plays basically as walkthrough plays, but the defense is trying to stop them. And they try and run a play. The receiver runs a slant.
01:14:30
Speaker
And Devin Witherspoon picks it off, houses it, 80 yards, pick six. The offensive coordinator went to the defensive coordinator, the position coach, or whoever it was. And he's like, nah, fuck that. You're tipping the plays. He's like, what? You're tipping the plays. There's no way that he knew
01:14:47
Speaker
that that he was running a slant there like how how would he have known that like you guys are tipping the plays stop tipping the plays we're trying to like run this like it's real like don't give your corner the routes and the guy's like we're not tipping the plays like he knew that that slant was coming and the guy's like dude there's literally there's no there's no chance there's no chance he could not have known that
01:15:11
Speaker
All right. So the position coach or whatever was goes up to Devin Witherspoon. And he's like, let a coach thinks that that you got the plate tipped. And that's how you knew the slant was coming. Devin Witherspoon is like, they thought that that was that I was tipped. Like, that's why I knew that. Devin Witherspoon is like, no, fuck that. Fuck that. I'm not going to let that stand. Dude gets up in front of the entire team.
01:15:37
Speaker
And he, point by point, explains exactly how he knew that the slant was coming.
01:15:46
Speaker
I can't break down like exactly how he would have done that but it was something like he saw them run a certain formation the day before and he knew based on the routes that they ran out of that formation that when they lined up a certain way the next day he knew what route was coming and he jumped it and but it was all like it was all just crazy stuff that like
01:16:15
Speaker
the other defensive players on the team were like, dude, I would not have even fucking thought of that. Yeah. Like, how did you make like these connections between like the stuff that they were running yesterday and then figure out what what route was coming
01:16:33
Speaker
like in a different like i think the formation was like different and he still it was like somehow connected to what they were doing the day before he he figured out what route they were running jumped it for a pick six and then he when he was in front of the team he proceeded to explain like exactly how he has figured out all their route concepts and tendencies like he broke it down for them and was like
01:17:00
Speaker
boom boom boom boom boom that's how i know what you're doing when you do this that's how i know what you're doing when you do this that's how i know what you're doing every time you line up like he was just going down like basically point by point explaining to the offense how he's decoded their offense and knows exactly what they're doing on every play dude i heard that story and i was like
01:17:21
Speaker
yo that's that's different yeah that's different that's not like and and another thing that hawk blogger pointed out was that that lines up exactly with what peat was talking about after they drafted him peat was talking about how they were they were doing if they were grinding film together and peat was
01:17:45
Speaker
asking him like how do you make these reads like how did you know you know there's the famous play on his highlight reel where he blew up the guy from indiana looks like looks like camp chancellor he was asking about plays like that how did you know that that the that that was what was gonna happen how did you know this play was coming how did you know this route
01:18:05
Speaker
And Pete said the way that he breaks down the game and the way that he understands the game. And this is serious, man. Pete's not just going to say this. He said it reminds him of Troy Paul Amalo, who he coached at USC.
01:18:21
Speaker
That's crazy. You're not going to do that. I'm like, people could be like, oh, that's a ridiculous comparison. You shouldn't say that about a guy who hasn't played yet. He's Pete is not going to say he is not going to say that unless he sees real, very tangible similarities in how they read the game. Yeah. You know what I mean?
01:18:41
Speaker
He's not going to say that. And it sounds like if he doesn't work out, he's going to be a great, great coach for the Seahawks. I mean, isn't that story crazy though? That's like breaking down the, uh, like, like reading a route so well that your, your coach thinks that it got tipped to you and then proceeding to explain how not only was it not tipped, but that you actually know everything that's coming from them on, on offense and every practice. And this is exactly how different
01:19:12
Speaker
different Einstein. I, I, I can't, I can't wait to watch this guy play. All right. I think we're going to wrap it there. I think we might've just ripped off two hours of scorchers right there. So until next time we out. Peace.
01:19:37
Speaker
What's going on, everyone? It's Producer Noah here. I'm just jumping in to let you know that we need you to rate this episode. We need you to rate this episode and share it with your friends. It's more important than anything in the world. It's more important than LAFC winning Champions League. It's more important than Jordan Morris coming back from injury. It's more important than anything. So make sure you rate us five stars. Drop a comment on why you like it or why you don't like it. But just try not to hurt our feelings and we'll see you next week.