Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
61: How to Teach Us, Authentic PBL w/ Brooke Tobia and Students
19 Plays5 years ago
In this podcast, we are joined by Brooke Tobia and her two students, Olivia and Avery. Together, they've co-developed and written the book How to Teach Us: A Guide for Teachers Written by Students. Working in a PBL environment, roughly 60 6th grade students between Brooke and her co-teacher researched, wrote, and published this work which is available via Amazon. Within, you'll find slews of information, gathered from interviews with students, that explains how different students learn and effective teaching methods.
It can’t be stressed enough how authentically this work demonstrates the power of experiential learning. These students are engaged, motivated, curious, and acting purposefully. They see the power in their work and want to share it. They’re working cooperatively to help each other. And ultimately, they’ve built something together that can have a lasting impact. Maybe this podcast will spawn a wave of collaborative book publishing?
GUESTS
Brooke Tobia, a 6th grade STEM educator at High Tech Middle North County, who masterfully incorporates experiential learning into her courses. She’s joined by two of her 6th grade students, Olivia and Avery.
RESOURCES
- How to Teach Us: A Guide for Teachers Written by Students
- Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing
- Student Interview Questions
FURTHER LISTENING
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:04
Speaker
Hello, before we get started, I want to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Human Restoration Project's fantastic patrons.
00:00:11
Speaker
All of our work, which includes free resources, materials, and this podcast is available for free due to our Patreon supporters, three of whom are Ray O'Brien, Trevor Christian, and Connie Fletcher.
00:00:23
Speaker
Thank you for your ongoing support.
00:00:25
Speaker
You can learn more about the Human Restoration Project on our website, humanrestorationproject.org, or find us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook.
Meet the Host and Guests
00:00:52
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Season 3, Episode 19 of Things Fall Apart, our podcast, The Human Restoration Project.
00:00:59
Speaker
My name is Chris McNutt, and I'm a high school digital media instructor from Ohio.
00:01:03
Speaker
In this podcast, we are joined by Brooke Tobia, a sixth grade STEM educator at High Tech High Middle North County in San Marcos, California, with her two students, Olivia and Avery.
About 'How to Teach Us'
00:01:14
Speaker
Together, they've co-developed and written the book, How to Teach Us, A Guide for Teachers Written by Students.
00:01:20
Speaker
Working in a PBL environment, roughly 60 different sixth grade students, split between Brooke and her co-teacher, researched, wrote, and published this work
00:01:29
Speaker
which is available via Amazon.
00:01:31
Speaker
Within, you'll find a ton of information gathered from interviews with students that explains how different students learn and how to effectively teach them.
00:01:46
Speaker
Let's just start off with a really basic question, which is what was the impetus behind writing this book?
00:01:54
Speaker
Like, where did it come from?
00:01:55
Speaker
Was it a student driven thing?
00:01:57
Speaker
Was it just an idea out of the blue?
00:01:58
Speaker
Where did it come from?
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I got the privilege to go to South by Southwest, the conference last year, and was fortunate enough to sit in this meeting where we were talking about, if we were not even talking about innovation in education, instead of we just scrapped that, and we had to talk about reinventing education, what would that look like?
00:02:20
Speaker
and what would it take for change to happen.
00:02:22
Speaker
And it was really clear to me that in order for change to occur, students really have to be behind it.
00:02:29
Speaker
And when students' voice is present and they're talking about it and saying that these are the things that need to happen, educators really listen.
00:02:39
Speaker
They take the time, they stop, they listen, they hear it.
00:02:43
Speaker
And it's really hard to deny student voice.
00:02:46
Speaker
And so I really felt like there was a
00:02:50
Speaker
a lacking of that happening in our education system.
00:02:54
Speaker
And we have this opportunity to work in projects.
00:02:57
Speaker
And so my partner and I, I'm the math science teacher.
00:03:00
Speaker
And then my partner is a humanities teacher.
00:03:03
Speaker
We got together, we had breakfast one morning and we got to talk about what were all the things or the projects that we'd want to do that we would never be able to do or that we'd really want our students to be able to take part in.
00:03:13
Speaker
I said, well, I want them to be a part of the change that needs to happen in education.
00:03:17
Speaker
And so that was kind of
00:03:19
Speaker
about giving them a platform to have a voice on.
00:03:22
Speaker
Of the students that you have with you, Brooke, could you all introduce yourselves really quick on the podcast?
Student Contributions and Learning Types
00:03:29
Speaker
My name is Avery, and the student category that I was grouped in for this project was outgoing.
00:03:40
Speaker
Okay, that makes sense.
00:03:41
Speaker
You signed up to come on the podcast.
00:03:43
Speaker
Thank you.
00:03:45
Speaker
My name is Olivia and I identified with being an overthinker.
00:03:51
Speaker
So to add a point of clarification on the students placing themselves into categories, how to teach us to subdivided into different chapters, each showcasing a different type of student.
00:04:02
Speaker
So for example, there's autistic, class clown, creative, fidgeter, independent, outgoing, overthinker, as well as a few others.
00:04:09
Speaker
And each section, then each chapter,
00:04:12
Speaker
has that student or that group of students describing what activities they enjoy in school and what activities they don't enjoy in school.
00:04:20
Speaker
We had a discussion in class about what characteristics they identified themselves with, understanding that it's not just one characteristic that they identify with, but there's many.
00:04:30
Speaker
But if there was one that they were to choose that was the largest that they identified with, which one would it be?
00:04:35
Speaker
And so then students created a list of like 20 different characteristics of how they identify themselves as and understanding that they represent the student population and very similar to any school that they would go to, the students who feel the same way.
00:04:50
Speaker
And so based on that, then they grouped themselves.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's a really cool idea.
00:04:54
Speaker
It's very unique.
00:04:55
Speaker
And I'm interested about more about how the process worked.
00:04:58
Speaker
Avery or Olivia, could you talk a little bit about like what you did, what you liked about what you did, really anything about the project that you would like to share?
00:05:07
Speaker
One thing that I really liked and that was really what we did, it really like, how do I say it?
00:05:17
Speaker
It was really like our main point on getting all the data was we like went to other schools and we interviewed them.
00:05:24
Speaker
We were like at middle schools and high schools and we interviewed them and asked them what they would identify with and what like they just rated on these techniques that you would do in class.
00:05:35
Speaker
I know the thing that I definitely really liked from this project was that it's kind of giving us more of a voice in the classroom.
00:05:45
Speaker
And that's not something I know when we first started, like, well, this is something that I would not even think of doing last year or something new.
00:05:55
Speaker
And I just remember right at the beginning, Miss Tobia asking us, OK, what do you want the teachers to know?
00:06:01
Speaker
And then that just like just pushed us off and we just like
00:06:05
Speaker
kept rolling on it and it was just a really cool project.
00:06:09
Speaker
And that's really interesting to note too because for those of us that don't have a background with like how high tech high is structured, is sixth grade then the first grade that students are introduced to this project-based system?
Importance of Student Voice
00:06:21
Speaker
No, we have a K through 12 system here.
00:06:25
Speaker
And so half of our students, did either one of you go to high tech last year?
00:06:28
Speaker
No.
00:06:28
Speaker
Either one of these girls went to high tech last year.
00:06:32
Speaker
But so we have about, it's a 50-50 split of like students who are from high tech and students who are coming from just local community.
00:06:40
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:06:41
Speaker
So then my follow-up would be Avery and Olivia, based off what you've learned from this project, now that you're transferring to a school that
00:06:48
Speaker
maybe is a little bit more focused on student voice than some others.
00:06:51
Speaker
Why do you think it's important that teachers listen to you?
00:06:54
Speaker
Like, why does it matter in the first place?
00:06:57
Speaker
Well, I just want teachers, well, even just with this project specifically, one thing that really hit home with me is letting teachers know that this is how I learn best and this is how I would get, how I would be most successful.
00:07:12
Speaker
I mean, because the most, the most,
00:07:16
Speaker
or sorry, the best way that you can find out what a person likes or how they would better be treated is through, like from them.
00:07:25
Speaker
So most teachers just assume, oh, my kid liked this or, oh, when I was a kid, I liked that.
00:07:32
Speaker
But usually it's that's not the case.
00:07:34
Speaker
So I just really liked it that I got to tell someone this is what I would like and maybe you didn't know that but this is something that would really help me in the classroom.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah and when teachers would recognize those patterns like you're talking about that like how worksheets is like a kind of wide they don't students don't like it they can try to choose that oh yeah let's kind of steer away from doing worksheets and try to
00:08:01
Speaker
use some other technique to do that.
00:08:04
Speaker
And another thing that I know that a lot of people didn't like was calling on random students.
00:08:10
Speaker
So we've been trying to in our classroom, I've noticed that we've been trying to not call on people randomly anymore.
00:08:18
Speaker
Like every we're like, we know that we're going to be asked questions.
00:08:23
Speaker
So it's not just like, well, I'm really nervous.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting to note too that I like the fact that this whole process treats you all as individuals.
00:08:32
Speaker
I think sometimes we tend to marginalize or push out people because we see them as younger and it's like, why would we listen to them?
00:08:39
Speaker
Because I don't want to make you sound like super young, but you are in sixth grade.
00:08:43
Speaker
It's amazing really what all we can do.
00:08:46
Speaker
I mean, there are seniors that do this kind of stuff that maybe don't even have the opportunity in school to do so.
00:08:51
Speaker
So it's just really interesting to have this conversation and just
00:08:55
Speaker
realize that everyone has something that they have to share.
00:08:58
Speaker
And it's usually very well put because you're the ones going through it.
Planning with Student Input
00:09:02
Speaker
Brooke, shifting over to you for a second, when you were going about planning this and making this all come together, and someone listening to this podcast that really likes the idea, they see you publishing this book, where did you even start?
00:09:16
Speaker
What was the starting idea point to make this all come together?
00:09:21
Speaker
There's a couple of different ways when you do a project.
00:09:25
Speaker
I think start with something that you're passionate about and that you would really hope that by the end of the year what you would want your students to be able to do.
00:09:34
Speaker
And so for us, that was something that we thought was really important.
00:09:37
Speaker
We would want students to make sure that they knew that they had a voice.
00:09:41
Speaker
And before they left sixth grade, we wanted them to feel like they can advocate for themselves.
00:09:45
Speaker
They know how to advocate for themselves.
00:09:47
Speaker
within their home life, within their school life, within just politics and get that going, that conversation going and spreading the word.
00:09:57
Speaker
So that was for us.
00:09:58
Speaker
And so it starts with an idea and a passion.
00:10:00
Speaker
But then also things to think about when you're planning a project.
00:10:04
Speaker
And then this one specifically was what was the end result?
00:10:07
Speaker
What do you want out of it?
00:10:08
Speaker
So sometimes it's a good thing to think about the product and how you would do that.
00:10:14
Speaker
Simultaneously, I think it's really helpful to make sure, I think high quality product based learning requires a tie to the community too.
00:10:25
Speaker
What is the authentic audience that you want to present to?
00:10:28
Speaker
Who are you helping?
00:10:29
Speaker
And in this case, it was educators.
00:10:31
Speaker
It was like, hey, we have educators all around that need to hear this.
00:10:35
Speaker
And so how can we get that word out there mostly?
00:10:38
Speaker
So this book is a really great way.
00:10:40
Speaker
And we're also super grateful that you're able to share our story here so we can have other people here as well.
00:10:46
Speaker
So coming up with an end result, how the students can exhibit their learning, really.
00:10:52
Speaker
And so just making like notes of those things, like who can you connect within your community to help?
00:10:57
Speaker
Who, like what is that end result that you would love to have?
00:11:01
Speaker
And making sure it's really authentic and helpful, not just a craft piece, you know, make sure it's really meaningful and relevant to the students.
00:11:10
Speaker
And then backwards planning is like the best way to go, in my opinion, where you just start with that end result.
00:11:17
Speaker
and then make sure you backwards plan including like constant reflection like we talked a lot about how we felt about the process and how we were and making sure we weren't boxing ourselves in and conversation and um this product brought forth a lot of interesting things for sure in our classroom and um and then just backwards planning from there and making sure that we have enough time for all of it sure so
00:11:42
Speaker
From a day-to-day standpoint, if I were to walk into the room and students were working on crafting this book, what types of things were students doing?
00:11:52
Speaker
There's many days where a lot of things are going on.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:56
Speaker
So...
00:11:57
Speaker
We definitely, so I think what we started by doing was the first thing we started doing was crafting our empathy pieces, which you'll find at the beginning of each chapter for each characteristic.
00:12:13
Speaker
And so we got together as a group.
00:12:16
Speaker
like for each characteristic and we just talked about that question again, what do we want teachers to know about us?
00:12:24
Speaker
So like, and we got to put a lot of our personality into them, not just like an essay, but it's actually like we're talking to those teachers like, hey, we're outgoing students.
00:12:36
Speaker
This is what we want to tell you.
00:12:42
Speaker
And when we were creating the book, there was so much stuff going on, not even just the book.
00:12:48
Speaker
Like we also had like a website that kids were doing.
00:12:52
Speaker
And there was like just so much stuff that went into it that it was now that I look back on it, it didn't seem like a bunch of stuff.
00:13:02
Speaker
But when you were actually doing it, it was it was a lot.
00:13:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:07
Speaker
I know for me, it was probably my most rewarding experience this year for sure.
00:13:12
Speaker
And huge, it's on top of my list in my teaching career.
00:13:17
Speaker
My teaching partner and I just stepped back and there's 60 students in one time in this open space and we look around we're just standing back and Everyone is doing something and we have editors working on the editing of the chapters We have painters working on our exhibition piece for exhibition.
00:13:35
Speaker
We have
00:13:37
Speaker
people setting up the room for exhibition there are so many moving pieces all around and what at first was um difficult collaboration like they really it was like a squeaky wheel getting them in the beginning of this project to collaborate together um especially certain groups where for example our independent group happened to be the largest group which is really interesting but at the end of it um
00:14:04
Speaker
students really were able just to like work together and make pieces that they felt really represented them well.
00:14:11
Speaker
And I know another thing that this project definitely gave every like single student in our classroom, like a time to shine, whether it was like working on the chapters, like designing your page or like some people like creating the cover of the book, like that, the cover is student created.
00:14:30
Speaker
So like everybody worked on it, like has a bit of them in the book.
00:14:36
Speaker
It's fascinating.
00:14:37
Speaker
I love this whole conversation because I mean,
00:14:40
Speaker
This is probably the most authentic representation.
00:14:44
Speaker
I mean, it's really cool.
00:14:45
Speaker
So from like the reflective nature of doing this work, Brooke, do you find yourself then changing how your own practice works, considering that you just spent an entire project gathering what students think?
00:14:58
Speaker
Like there's like a there's a meta part of this book that's really interesting, which is like you're teaching students student voice while you're self-receiving feedback for your students about student voice.
00:15:07
Speaker
So how has this changed the way that you look at your own classroom and how it works?
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah.
Impact of Student Feedback on Teaching
00:15:13
Speaker
I really, really appreciated those empathy pieces that they wrote and read them several times and listened to them.
00:15:22
Speaker
And so just hearing that and just their perspective on how they see themselves was not how I saw them, to be honest.
00:15:29
Speaker
It was like, oh, I didn't think of it that way.
00:15:32
Speaker
And so just giving the –
00:15:34
Speaker
recognizing and it's something that we know but recognizing like wow you just ask them and just give them space to be honest and reflective like they will tell you and so for me that was really telling things like Audrey said simple things like um
00:15:49
Speaker
Don't call on them randomly.
00:15:51
Speaker
It frightens them.
00:15:53
Speaker
It really frightens them and they don't feel like it's the best to their benefit.
00:15:57
Speaker
And so we had a conversation about that.
00:15:59
Speaker
And I said, well, how can I do that?
00:16:01
Speaker
Because I'm trying to like see if you're on task, you know, like, are you listening or are you just doodling?
00:16:06
Speaker
Olivia is a big doodler, right?
00:16:08
Speaker
Like Olivia, are you still like paying attention?
00:16:10
Speaker
And so instead of calling on them randomly, like giving them a heads up, like I'm going to come back and check on you in a little bit.
00:16:16
Speaker
Or don't assign seats.
00:16:19
Speaker
I know so many teachers have assigned seats in there and I go back and forth to that concept but they really appreciate the autonomy and they want to see if they can make that decision on their own.
00:16:31
Speaker
And every single student like in our classroom you guys I would agree like they said let's try it and if it's not working out then I would love to have your feedback, Mastobia, and see like if there's a better spot for me.
00:16:44
Speaker
It was almost like like
00:16:47
Speaker
like almost like a contract kind of thing.
00:16:49
Speaker
Like, okay, we're gonna let you try this, but if you guys mess around, we're gonna go back to like strict seating.
00:16:57
Speaker
But I know that just automatically made us like stay on task more.
00:17:03
Speaker
yeah just like just like this is their this is their space too like how can we all just enjoy it so those things really helped me um and then it was interesting from a teacher's perspective of how it was just a really the data show that it was just a really nice blend of the basic things in a classroom like super simple it says you know in our in the first couple pages of the book it says um
00:17:29
Speaker
to make sure that you have student choice included in the lesson plans that you have.
00:17:33
Speaker
Like just a couple choices.
00:17:36
Speaker
Blend it with like computer work and collaboration and independence.
00:17:40
Speaker
So make sure that you're like thinking about that.
00:17:42
Speaker
So, you know, I go back to like my BITSA or my when I'm first becoming a teacher days and you're writing all these lesson plans.
00:17:49
Speaker
I feel like I think about these things that the students are talking about more so than the other ways.
00:17:54
Speaker
It's like, how am I making sure that
00:17:57
Speaker
there's some independent think time in there and how am I making sure that there is some collaboration time and hands down every every student really appreciated it as a five-star rating on daily agendas they like to know what to expect for the day so making sure I keep up with that and it's on task and up to date and then they all love hand-on learning which can be PBL but it doesn't have to be PBL but they just like having relevance to the things that they're learning so I take a lot of it in my daily lesson planning for sure
00:18:27
Speaker
It also makes a lot of sense in the sense that you're having students do the things that they enjoy while they're actually crafting the book itself.
00:18:35
Speaker
As in the thing that they're writing that they enjoy doing is the thing that they're writing about in the book.
00:18:49
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the podcast so far.
00:18:52
Speaker
Are you interested in diving deeper into progressive education?
00:18:55
Speaker
If so, Human Restoration Project would love to serve as a platform to amplify your voice.
00:19:01
Speaker
We're seeking writers to help contribute to our magazine.
00:19:04
Speaker
You can reach me at chris, C-H-R-I-S, at humanrestorationproject.org to learn more.
00:19:10
Speaker
Now, back to our discussion.
00:19:17
Speaker
Let's sort of not necessarily shift gears, but I'd like to hear more from Avery and Olivia surrounding their findings.
00:19:27
Speaker
So there's a lot of stuff in this book.
00:19:29
Speaker
If I just kind of flip through it, it's almost overwhelming because there's like a lot of different things I have to compare and contrast.
00:19:36
Speaker
And there's no silver bullet in education.
00:19:39
Speaker
There's a lot of different things going on.
00:19:41
Speaker
Based off of what you researched and who you interviewed, Avery and Olivia, I
00:19:46
Speaker
What were some takeaway points beyond what we've already spoken about?
00:19:49
Speaker
What were things that stood out that you felt were super important that you would want educators to know?
Using the Book for Lesson Planning
00:19:55
Speaker
So I actually wrote the summary of findings in the beginning of the book.
00:20:01
Speaker
So like I kind of did like a little bit on just a little bit of a summary.
00:20:05
Speaker
But I mean, like you said, it is kind of overwhelming once you see it.
00:20:10
Speaker
So but something that I found was that was pretty cool is that like a shy student, but also an outgoing student kind of had this same idea or the same opinion
00:20:23
Speaker
totally on like the same thing which was kind of cool to me because you know like you're shy and then here's a person that like isn't and it's like oh they're they they have like the same opinion on something that's I mean I thought it was pretty cool
00:20:40
Speaker
But even if a teacher, I mean, I can see how teachers can find it a little overwhelming if they're trying to use it in the classroom.
00:20:49
Speaker
So if they want to, I would just, I mean, it would be even cool to ask their students in the beginning of the year or sometime to just ask them, hey, how do you want to learn?
00:21:01
Speaker
How do you want to?
00:21:04
Speaker
How do you want this year to go and how do you find that you will learn best?
00:21:12
Speaker
So when we were doing the data collection, going to the different schools for the interviews, we actually had this packet of questions that we did and it was like,
00:21:29
Speaker
Just, it was like... How do you rate, as a shy student, how do you rate?
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah, you like ask, you ask them what kind of characteristic they were.
00:21:39
Speaker
Then you ask questions for them, but like making sure you put emphasis on as this student, how would you answer, what would you put as this question rather than just them.
00:21:50
Speaker
So we can kind of narrow it down to more of that group rather than a bunch of different students.
00:21:56
Speaker
And then we actually have a...
00:21:59
Speaker
That's the same interview.
00:22:02
Speaker
So we actually added that interview into the back of the book.
00:22:05
Speaker
So if teachers did want to give that to their students and ask the same kind of questions like Olivia was talking about, they can just go to that bit.ly that's there and it's like bit.ly how to teach us or something.
00:22:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:18
Speaker
And then they can give that same survey to their students and kind of collect the data for themselves too.
00:22:24
Speaker
But how would you suggest, Avery, like teachers use this?
00:22:28
Speaker
So I think that it shouldn't like so they could use it as like, oh, I'm having trouble with this shy student in my class.
00:22:37
Speaker
Let's look at the pages about them.
00:22:42
Speaker
Sure, but I think another main point they should use the book for should be like when they're doing lesson planning.
00:22:49
Speaker
Like before they even get to those lessons, if they've like given their students that interview, they can just see that like before they start the lesson, what should I do to make sure the majority of the students in my class are successful with this project or assignment?
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, you sound like an education professor.
00:23:13
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:23:16
Speaker
Even though there isn't one way to meet every student's needs that kind of has to be differentiated amongst different students, how do you feel like PBL or experiential learning helps foster an environment that fits as many needs as it possibly can?
Project-Based Learning and Student Strengths
00:23:34
Speaker
As in how does like separating different roles, having all this different stuff going on, allow for all of these different students to learn effectively?
00:23:41
Speaker
That's one of my favorite things about PBL.
00:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's just one of the ways, like you said, right, that we can reach students.
00:23:48
Speaker
But I really take the opportunity that projects give us to let students shine in how they want to shine.
00:23:55
Speaker
And so I look at it more as an opportunity to support the whole child
00:24:00
Speaker
you know, in learning versus just like this is the one thing that we're going to be learning through this project.
00:24:05
Speaker
It's kind of like it opens up perspective.
00:24:08
Speaker
It opens up possibilities to see things in different ways for all of us.
00:24:13
Speaker
And so it gives, you know, especially if students feel the freedom and the respect and the safety to feel like they can express themselves in a project and there's not necessarily a right or wrong way.
00:24:28
Speaker
it really opens the door for a lot of students to be successful and to shine, you know, their genius, really.
00:24:34
Speaker
It's like we have a student, you know, specifically Avery was mentioning about who did the cover of the book and she's very much into design and digital design.
00:24:43
Speaker
And so what a great way for her to, she kind of led up the design department for the book and said, okay, this is the direction I think we should go.
00:24:51
Speaker
And she owned it.
00:24:53
Speaker
And it was really wonderful to see her shine in that.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:57
Speaker
I feel like people that are listening to this are probably going to want to know like a lot of like nuts and bolts questions, even though they might not replicate the exact same project.
00:25:05
Speaker
I feel like just kind of knowing how everything is set up with just like simple, like data helps a lot.
00:25:11
Speaker
So like, for example, how much time was spent on it?
00:25:14
Speaker
How long are students working on it?
00:25:16
Speaker
What is like the schedule look like for it?
00:25:18
Speaker
How's all that kind of stuff work?
Executing the Book Project
00:25:19
Speaker
So starting off with like planning the project, give yourself like, um,
00:25:24
Speaker
You know, about two to three hours really and like dedicated time to plan a project and that's like, what do we want our essential question to be?
00:25:31
Speaker
What would the end product be and like get that skeleton and you can find a lot of that project planning templates everywhere.
00:25:38
Speaker
I know high tech high has them on their websites too, but they're everywhere.
00:25:42
Speaker
And then from there, this was a nine-week project.
00:25:47
Speaker
And so we launched several times in different ways.
00:25:51
Speaker
So starting off the project, it was a day launch, going to a school and interviewing and talking about that.
00:26:00
Speaker
And then collecting the data, we did that for about four weeks, maybe even five.
00:26:06
Speaker
It seems like a really long time.
00:26:09
Speaker
But then, once after, it was like, what, what?
00:26:13
Speaker
We're done?
00:26:13
Speaker
So that would include, we had parent drivers help us out.
00:26:17
Speaker
And so we would go to schools and students would interview, we interviewed about over 700 students for this book in San Diego.
00:26:26
Speaker
And so that would include asking questions from one class and then those classes leaving and then another class coming in and fitting in as many classes as we can in a period of time.
00:26:37
Speaker
When we come back, that's when we would reflect with the students.
00:26:40
Speaker
And then the students would, we should see it.
00:26:43
Speaker
We have huge chart paper all over our classroom.
00:26:46
Speaker
And so the outgoing students would then correlate and put all their data on this chart paper.
00:26:53
Speaker
So they would organize the papers all together and say, oh, this is an outgoing student.
00:26:57
Speaker
This is a shy student, whatever.
00:26:59
Speaker
And then they would put all the data on this chart paper.
00:27:02
Speaker
And that would be this living document that would change them.
00:27:04
Speaker
Every time we went on a field trip, we'd come back and reflect with that document and add to it.
00:27:10
Speaker
And then from there, you know, the students are really...
00:27:14
Speaker
Oh, in the beginning of the teacher interviews, yeah.
00:27:17
Speaker
But we would then from there do some writing and reflecting also in the humanities part.
00:27:23
Speaker
That night, like a day or two.
00:27:24
Speaker
But then once they got their information, students peer edited several times, right?
00:27:30
Speaker
Yeah, chapters.
00:27:31
Speaker
Several times.
00:27:33
Speaker
Lots of editing and revisions were made.
00:27:37
Speaker
And then we took about...
00:27:40
Speaker
I would say two and a half to three weeks preparing for our exhibition, which is still going.
00:27:45
Speaker
We had several exhibitions.
00:27:46
Speaker
We had one exhibition that was actually, we gave the professional, they gave the professional development for our staff.
00:27:54
Speaker
And then they did one for their parents who came.
00:27:58
Speaker
And then they have one coming up this Saturday at an actual teaching conference, design camp.
00:28:03
Speaker
So they'll be presenting there.
00:28:05
Speaker
It doesn't get more real than that.
00:28:07
Speaker
And I'm sure the field trips are ultra engaging, just the ability to move around and leave.
00:28:12
Speaker
Anytime you leave the building, it's oddly exciting no matter what you're doing.
00:28:15
Speaker
There wasn't a whole lot of sitting down time.
00:28:17
Speaker
I'm sure that's a natural plan.
00:28:18
Speaker
There wasn't a lot of like, there's nothing to do.
00:28:21
Speaker
I never in this project had to get students to work on the stuff that they had to work on.
00:28:27
Speaker
It's just because it was about them and everyone's working at their own pace.
00:28:30
Speaker
We were always laughing and stuff, but we still got a lot done.
00:28:34
Speaker
It was surprising that we had so much fun, but still...
00:28:38
Speaker
we made a book.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah, and like the point that you made that I agree that like none of us really stopped and didn't have something to do.
00:28:49
Speaker
I think it was partly because a bunch of us, we were passionate about it.
00:28:53
Speaker
Like we wanted to tell teachers this is how I learned, this is how like I want to see school because you shouldn't like see school as like a burden or something.
00:29:02
Speaker
Like this will help make school more enjoyable for kids.
00:29:05
Speaker
So yeah, including me, like we were just passionate about it and it really helped make out our better product.
00:29:12
Speaker
That was cool.
00:29:12
Speaker
I think also knowing that you're going to be talking to teachers and
00:29:16
Speaker
and presenting to that audience, like, this is real.
00:29:19
Speaker
Like, your voice matters.
00:29:20
Speaker
And both Guy, my teaching partner, and I would reinforce that idea all the time and say, like, this is your chance.
00:29:28
Speaker
Like, what do you want to say?
00:29:29
Speaker
Like, you're giving an opportunity right now, so really make the most of it.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah, make the most of the opportunity.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:36
Speaker
You might, like, if you don't go to this school next year, you're never going to get that chance again.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:44
Speaker
This might be a really bad follow-up question, but I have to know.
00:29:47
Speaker
This is something I've always struggled with doing PPL in my own classes and many people that I work with, which is, were there any students that didn't buy in?
00:29:56
Speaker
What strategies do you use to ensure that if there's one or two or three students that are just like, I don't like doing this specific thing or
00:30:06
Speaker
You know, it's just difficult for me to manage my time in a PBL environment, stuff like that.
00:30:10
Speaker
Did you run into any challenges that had to be solved?
00:30:14
Speaker
This is weird because I've done a lot of projects and that always happens.
00:30:17
Speaker
Always.
00:30:18
Speaker
There's always a couple of students, right, that I have to figure out another way to reach them.
00:30:21
Speaker
This one?
00:30:23
Speaker
I honestly can't say that there was.
00:30:26
Speaker
There were definitely students who worked at a slower pace.
00:30:29
Speaker
We had a slow characteristic, slow worker group, and we have a chapter on that, right?
00:30:34
Speaker
And they were like dystopia, I mean, what do you expect?
00:30:37
Speaker
But it was more just, I never had a student here, I don't know if you guys heard, like say I didn't care about this or they didn't want to work on it.
00:30:49
Speaker
The only time anyone ever said that was like a joke.
00:30:53
Speaker
Like there were some hard times.
00:30:55
Speaker
Like sometimes, like when we were interviewing, the people who were interviewing, I know one of the interviews I did, like the person that my partner was actually friends with the person when we were doing it here.
00:31:09
Speaker
So we didn't do any actual interviewing that day.
00:31:14
Speaker
And I know one part, one day I was like, I can't do this anymore.
00:31:19
Speaker
I cannot do another interview.
00:31:22
Speaker
We have talked to people all day and I need to stop.
00:31:26
Speaker
That day, that was a really hard, that was a really hard.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I think
00:31:30
Speaker
talking about did you want to say um I was just gonna agree with Avery that um on the interview part I definitely at one point was like just in the beginning I was like oh we're actually interviewing people and I would be I mean it's kind of different when you're with someone your age because you're like oh
00:31:49
Speaker
Okay, okay.
00:31:53
Speaker
I mean we're middle schoolers, we're socially awkward.
00:31:55
Speaker
So yeah, I was like I didn't really want to do it, but then like just seeing what the outcome would be, it just helped.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, and so I think that perseverance piece, like breaking it up too, helped a little bit.
00:32:09
Speaker
So we would, you know, only have project time maybe twice a week, you know, and get interested in other things too, and then come back to it.
00:32:17
Speaker
Because we would have project time in the second half of the day on periods four and five for us.
00:32:22
Speaker
And so that was, I think spacing it out probably helped a little bit there.
00:32:26
Speaker
And then also if we saw a student who was moving really quick, you know, and wanted some of their work and was ready for some more stuff, we like there's so much to do.
00:32:35
Speaker
And I'm just really making sure that this is 100 percent of students work and not something that we thought how it should be.
00:32:43
Speaker
And so, I mean, the layout like everything, every single thing in here was it was a student.
00:32:48
Speaker
So they had a lot of work to do.
00:32:50
Speaker
So I have one more nuts and bolts style question.
00:32:54
Speaker
And then I'll just kind of hear anything else that you would like to share.
00:32:57
Speaker
And that would be logistically, how did you actually design and publish the book?
00:33:02
Speaker
Like what were the software, the publishing service?
00:33:06
Speaker
How did you
Publishing the Book
00:33:07
Speaker
go about doing all that?
00:33:07
Speaker
Okay, well, I'm going to head that on to Avery because she was actually the one who did it.
00:33:12
Speaker
Oh, cool.
00:33:13
Speaker
We used the Amazon publishing service, Kindle Direct Publishing.
00:33:19
Speaker
And that was, it was such like an easy format.
00:33:24
Speaker
And it was just like, it was all you had to do was like, you had to
00:33:30
Speaker
I know I had to convert a couple of the files of stuff.
00:33:36
Speaker
We had to use a certain software to create the cover in order to have it be able to upload it to the page.
00:33:47
Speaker
So we had one running document, right?
00:33:50
Speaker
One giant document.
00:33:52
Speaker
like on Google that was just people were always continually adding to it so it was like the glitchiest document in the whole entire world there's 60 students more than that working on it and then saved that as a PDF yeah
00:34:10
Speaker
And then the cover was done by Canva.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, on the service Canva, which is just a lot of like just digital arts.
00:34:18
Speaker
I know a lot of students in our class love just playing around with it.
00:34:22
Speaker
Like we do everything on Canva pretty much.
00:34:28
Speaker
Thank you again for listening to Things Fall Apart from the Human Restoration Project.
00:34:32
Speaker
I hope this conversation leaves you inspired and
00:34:34
Speaker
and ready to push the progressive envelope of education.
00:34:37
Speaker
You can learn more about progressive education, support our cause, and stay tuned to this podcast and other updates on our website at humanrestorationproject.org.