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Ep 47: Jack "Danger" Larson
47 Plays5 years ago
Jack Danger joins us on this episode! We had fun talking about how Jack got into pinball, how it has changed, some sweet themes that would be cool in pinball and why DMCA sucks!
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Transcript
Introduction and Acknowledgements
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
We are on episode 47.
00:00:10
Speaker
With me, my co-captain as always.
00:00:12
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:13
Speaker
And Scott, why don't we hurry and run through the friends of the podcast before we get to our awesome guests that we have this afternoon.
00:00:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:21
Speaker
First and foremost, Zach Many and Nicole Many, Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:24
Speaker
If you want to check out a new pinball machine or any of the accessories, please reach out to them.
00:00:30
Speaker
They're easy to work with and they have always been easy to
00:00:33
Speaker
on us to get our machines when we're looking for things.
00:00:37
Speaker
Also, look at Lit Frames.
00:00:39
Speaker
If you have that trans light that's collecting dust in the corner and you're trying to find a way of illuminating it in your game room, please check out Lit Frames.
00:00:47
Speaker
Brian Allen is also on our list.
00:00:49
Speaker
He does alternate trans lights for Williams Valley Classics.
00:00:54
Speaker
He has Monster Bash.
00:00:55
Speaker
He has
00:00:57
Speaker
uh, medieval madness and he has attacked from Mars.
00:00:59
Speaker
Uh, also he is working on a white water alternate translate.
00:01:04
Speaker
He also has blades.
00:01:05
Speaker
And if you're really into, uh, discs, he has, uh, disc golf things for you.
00:01:12
Speaker
We also have Mike Lund, Mike Lund with beehive pinball.
00:01:20
Speaker
And what does Mike do?
00:01:22
Speaker
He does reproduction play fields.
00:01:25
Speaker
If you're looking for stars, that's what he's starting out with right now.
00:01:27
Speaker
And you can check out some of his work online at beehivepinball.com.
00:01:33
Speaker
And also my friend's blog, check out the Pinball Loft.
00:01:35
Speaker
If you want to check out his insights, he got Avengers.
00:01:38
Speaker
And so he also talked about his experience with that.
00:01:42
Speaker
It's very down to earth and accessible.
00:01:44
Speaker
Sometimes it's easier just to read something.
Guest Introduction: Jack Danger
00:01:46
Speaker
Now that we've got the friends out of the way because they are awesome people and we want to put a little spotlight on them, I am going to introduce our guests today.
00:01:54
Speaker
I personally have been following this man, I think I posted 28 months, and that's when they started coming out with the Amazon Prime.
00:02:01
Speaker
This gentleman's been a huge factor in the pinball community, bringing it to light, kind of out of obscurity, and not only to pinball people, but kind of gamers as well.
00:02:11
Speaker
You know him, so please give us some flippers and butts.
00:02:14
Speaker
It's Jack Danger.
00:02:16
Speaker
It's actually Jack Danger Larson.
00:02:19
Speaker
I'm Scott Larson's younger brother.
00:02:21
Speaker
For those of you that didn't know that.
00:02:24
Speaker
A little fun fact for you there.
00:02:25
Speaker
I didn't know that.
00:02:26
Speaker
When did... Who was your dad then?
00:02:30
Speaker
We don't talk about the milkman.
00:02:35
Speaker
As you can tell, I also have tattoos on my knuckles and I try to look like an awesome pinball personality too in my nighttime.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah.
Podcast Delays and Humorous Name Origins
00:02:45
Speaker
What's going on, guys?
00:02:46
Speaker
Nothing much.
00:02:46
Speaker
How are you doing today?
00:02:48
Speaker
Just hanging out.
00:02:49
Speaker
Another busy day in pinball land.
00:02:51
Speaker
Dude, I want to point out.
00:02:52
Speaker
So I know we've had this back and forth.
00:02:54
Speaker
People behind the scenes don't usually see this.
00:02:56
Speaker
But we've been talking about doing this recording for a year and a half since Texas Pinball Festival 2019.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, buddy.
00:03:02
Speaker
And like I mentioned, I...
00:03:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
I was going to say, not to cut you off, but I've been dodging you guys like Neo and the Matrix.
00:03:10
Speaker
We keep trying to set this up, and then something always gets in the way.
00:03:15
Speaker
I don't know what's going on, but I'm glad we were able to line this up.
00:03:18
Speaker
Heck yes.
00:03:18
Speaker
Well, I thought pinball was easy.
00:03:20
Speaker
Oh, there's the Gertuwa's Robert Mueller reference from Scott.
00:03:30
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:03:31
Speaker
Okay, Jack, the first question I've got to ask you, I've wondered this for years.
00:03:36
Speaker
Is Danger really your last name?
00:03:39
Speaker
Sure.
00:03:40
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, I didn't know if it was like Slash.
00:03:43
Speaker
You know, Slash, that's not his real name.
00:03:46
Speaker
Wait, Slash's real name isn't just Slash?
00:03:47
Speaker
No, no.
00:03:48
Speaker
Bullshit.
00:03:51
Speaker
If you ask him, it's his real it's his real whole name.
00:03:54
Speaker
But yeah, Slash is his middle name.
00:03:57
Speaker
It's actually and then Ash.
00:03:59
Speaker
So it's S.L.
00:03:59
Speaker
is his first name.
00:04:00
Speaker
It's a rare family name from the old country.
00:04:05
Speaker
You know, you joke about that.
00:04:06
Speaker
But I know a lady that her her first name is spelt J and then a hyphen and an A. How would you how would you pronounce that?
00:04:15
Speaker
Ja.
00:04:16
Speaker
Ja.
00:04:17
Speaker
Ja.
00:04:19
Speaker
Get out of here.
00:04:21
Speaker
I'm dead serious.
00:04:22
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:04:23
Speaker
Wait, how did she... That seems like some sci-fi name stuff.
00:04:28
Speaker
Wait, what did she go by?
00:04:30
Speaker
Ja.
00:04:30
Speaker
Oh.
00:04:32
Speaker
Okay, is that legit?
00:04:34
Speaker
That's not an urban legend?
00:04:36
Speaker
It was on a birth certificate, so...
00:04:39
Speaker
Okay, because I see a lot of, so working in medical field, you hear a lot of these urban legends, and you're like, ah, there's really no LaMondelo and Narangelo running around there, but everyone says they know someone whose brother, whose sister has that name.
00:04:53
Speaker
Well, what about the kid that Elon Musk had, where he was just slapping a bunch of characters on a piece of paper?
00:05:01
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:05:02
Speaker
The letter salad.
00:05:03
Speaker
It seems like if you're a celebrity and you have a kid, there are two routes to go.
00:05:08
Speaker
One is that I'm just going to name my kid just like any other kid.
00:05:12
Speaker
Or, you know what?
00:05:13
Speaker
I want to make sure that the kid, everybody knows that they're special and I'm weird.
00:05:19
Speaker
And so I'm going to name him Apple or Moses or something like that.
00:05:22
Speaker
Or Blanket.
00:05:24
Speaker
Or Blanket.
00:05:24
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:05:26
Speaker
Well, that's actually his middle name.
00:05:28
Speaker
And yeah.
00:05:29
Speaker
yeah wasn't he prince michael ii wasn't he wasn't that really his name man i want rich parents and a goofy name yeah that seems like a meme waiting to happen you know they're always like you if you lived in this mansion but you had to slap someone would you do it or you know now it's gonna be if you had rich parents but you had to have a really weird name would you do it you know what would that name be yeah yeah there there's one for your danger wall
00:05:56
Speaker
I think mine would be, mine would be elemental P. So.
00:05:59
Speaker
Elemental P. Well, yeah, Jack danger.
00:06:04
Speaker
It's actually Jacques danger.
00:06:05
Speaker
It's French.
00:06:08
Speaker
And that's where we're going to leave it.
00:06:11
Speaker
No, that's cool.
00:06:12
Speaker
That's cool.
00:06:13
Speaker
I've always, I've always been curious because I know I've asked other questions, but I've never asked if danger is, and then you posted something.
00:06:19
Speaker
What was it a couple months ago about your dad and his, his album.
00:06:25
Speaker
Is that true too?
00:06:26
Speaker
Oh, no, that was Harvey.
00:06:29
Speaker
Why can't you go with Harvey Danger?
00:06:33
Speaker
I mean, yes, Harvey Danger is my father.
00:06:36
Speaker
They had some great hits in the 90s.
00:06:38
Speaker
You may remember Flagpole Sitta.
00:06:41
Speaker
It was written about my mother.
00:06:43
Speaker
It was great.
00:06:45
Speaker
You got to ask these hard-hitting questions because if you don't, people are actually going to believe that Harvey Danger is your dad.
00:06:50
Speaker
True.
00:06:51
Speaker
True, true.
00:06:54
Speaker
I love the internet.
00:06:55
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:06:55
Speaker
It's so good.
00:06:57
Speaker
Well, if you've ever tuned into a Jack Danger stream, you know that he loves the internet.
00:07:01
Speaker
You know, the flickers, the butts, the hearts, the lighting.
00:07:05
Speaker
It's really – it's more of a mood than it is a show, right?
00:07:10
Speaker
It's like – it's a feeling.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah, baby.
00:07:12
Speaker
I like that.
00:07:13
Speaker
I like that.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, we're a mood.
00:07:15
Speaker
We're just trying to – we're trying to set a tone for the evening, sit back, relax.
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker
I like to say pinball is not necessarily the focus, but it's the reason you're there.
00:07:28
Speaker
You're just there to hang out.
00:07:29
Speaker
There just happens to be pinball being played.
00:07:32
Speaker
I agree.
00:07:32
Speaker
Scott, do you want to go ahead and ask a question?
00:07:36
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sorry.
00:07:37
Speaker
I was booting up my phone since I actually just woke up because I was...
00:07:42
Speaker
lucky well yeah because i i stayed up until three in the morning last night so gross yeah i was working on on call so man that's rough hey thank you for your service martin you know what it is a job and we are fine with it sorry my my phone just went it had a seizure so i just need to pull up my uh stream i'm pretty for sure this is all going to make it into the podcast too
00:08:06
Speaker
Booting the phone at eight minutes in.
00:08:09
Speaker
Here we go.
00:08:10
Speaker
So when did you first get into pinball?
Jack's Pinball Journey
00:08:13
Speaker
That's the first question.
00:08:14
Speaker
And second, when did you say, I want to do this as my full-time job?
00:08:18
Speaker
Oh, geez.
00:08:19
Speaker
I got into pinball about eight or nine years ago.
00:08:22
Speaker
Some friends of mine went to like a trip in Seattle and they discovered pinball for themselves.
00:08:29
Speaker
And when they came back, they were working in this animation studio that I was building at the time.
00:08:34
Speaker
And they're like, oh, pinball, it's so awesome.
00:08:37
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, whatever.
00:08:37
Speaker
I don't know what the heck you're talking about.
00:08:39
Speaker
And then one of them bought a Lord of the Rings and needed to store it in my studio.
00:08:43
Speaker
And that was my first recognition of a pinball machine.
00:08:47
Speaker
I'm sure I'd seen them everywhere in bars before, and it didn't mean anything to me.
00:08:52
Speaker
But it was when this Lord of the Rings came in, and we flipped on it for a little bit, and I wasn't really sold on it.
00:08:57
Speaker
I was like, what is this?
00:08:59
Speaker
It's like electronic furniture just sitting in the corner taking up space.
00:09:03
Speaker
And then that same gentleman bought a Judge Dredd like very shortly after.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I was like, if you don't have room for these in your house, we can't keep putting them in here because these are humongous.
00:09:14
Speaker
Right.
00:09:14
Speaker
Right.
00:09:16
Speaker
But when we start moving this thing in, you know, I'm kind of looking at it.
00:09:18
Speaker
I'm like, Judge Dredd, I remember that movie.
00:09:21
Speaker
But it wasn't based on the movie, so I was doing a little research.
00:09:24
Speaker
But when we put the head up on that game, plugged it in and got it going, something about that game just hooked me.
00:09:30
Speaker
The humor, the call outs, the shots, the big rotating planet.
00:09:35
Speaker
Something about that game was like, I need to go on the Internet and look up how to beat this game.
00:09:40
Speaker
And that's when you fall down that rabbit hole of you never get to win a pinball machine.
00:09:44
Speaker
So...
00:09:45
Speaker
Here's the strategy on how to survive the longest.
00:09:48
Speaker
And here's all these different skills you can learn.
00:09:50
Speaker
And it really just, that game just sort of hooked me overnight and haven't looked back since.
00:09:58
Speaker
Okay, so I love that you had Lord of the Rings and that did nothing for you.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker
But Judge Dredd was your gateway into pinball.
00:10:05
Speaker
I don't know of anybody else who has that gateway into pinball is Judge Dredd.
00:10:09
Speaker
I get that a lot.
00:10:10
Speaker
They're like, you had freaking Lord of the Rings, bro.
00:10:13
Speaker
And you're saying Judge Dredd got you into pinball?
00:10:15
Speaker
I don't know what it was, man.
00:10:16
Speaker
I just, like, as a pinball fan now, obviously LOTR is like a fantastic game.
00:10:24
Speaker
But that...
00:10:25
Speaker
just at the time never having noticed a pinball machine before it just didn't really i think this is what it is it's it's what you talked about it's like almost the ambiance below the glass right that's the spinning planet and stuff like that because i've ran into this problem too like i'm trying to get my kid into pinball and he loves it here and there but i just bought a jurassic park pro which is just an absolute fantastic game but the second we get it open and we get it going he's like why isn't the why isn't the t-rex moving like dude i didn't
00:10:52
Speaker
I didn't buy that edition.
00:10:53
Speaker
I think that's the problem is if you want people to get hooked in, you, I think that's why people gravitate to those, those nineties Williams games is because they got the moving, like world cup soccer is a fantastic machine for a good price.
00:11:07
Speaker
You got the goalie moving back and forth.
00:11:08
Speaker
It screams a goal at you, you know, but to more advanced player, they're just like, you're, you're getting into multi-ball and then you're trying to beat Germany.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's like it's setting an environment under there that might feel alive outside of what you're doing.
00:11:25
Speaker
You know, have some animatronic things moving around, have a giant ball spinning, have a planet that's moving.
00:11:31
Speaker
Even if like you're not good enough to ever shoot up that left ramp to get up into that planet, it still lights up and moves.
00:11:36
Speaker
And there's a crane there and it looks cool and it just fills in the game.
00:11:41
Speaker
It just makes it look more full.
00:11:42
Speaker
It's taller.
00:11:43
Speaker
It's more packed.
00:11:45
Speaker
But yeah, that really spoke to me, that game.
00:11:48
Speaker
And we have one here, an acquaintance of ours, one of the viewers on our show, bought one and knew my history with this game and then left it here for us to stream for a while.
00:11:59
Speaker
Awesome.
00:12:00
Speaker
Does it still hold up now?
00:12:02
Speaker
It's still a freaking blast.
00:12:04
Speaker
And the humor is still right there, too.
00:12:06
Speaker
And there's like little secrets you could do in each mode to like make different things happen.
00:12:09
Speaker
Like when you shoot the sniper tower.
00:12:11
Speaker
If you can shoot the sniper tower mode and then shoot it again and then hold in the launch button instead of the guy just getting shot out of the tower and then getting impaled by a fence, a dog will now come in and piss on the guy.
00:12:25
Speaker
Right.
00:12:25
Speaker
It's like little things like that.
00:12:27
Speaker
It's so funny.
00:12:27
Speaker
The game is so good.
00:12:30
Speaker
Oh, I love it.
00:12:32
Speaker
That's like finding the lost world in Super Mario Brothers.
00:12:35
Speaker
Oh, it's so good.
00:12:40
Speaker
So then what made you decide, like Scott said, what made you decide to go, hey, this is cool, but now I want to make this my job?
00:12:49
Speaker
Well, when we first, I say we as in the collective group of pinball dudes that were in my studio, when we first got into pinball,
00:12:59
Speaker
We dove in headfirst.
00:13:00
Speaker
We went to all the tournaments when a quote unquote bar league started up in Chicago.
00:13:05
Speaker
That's where the four of us were like, we need a name.
00:13:08
Speaker
And we came up with dead flip.
00:13:09
Speaker
So dead flip was just a group of four dudes that played in this tournament, this league that we had here in Chicago.
00:13:17
Speaker
And subsequently went undefeated to win that whole thing.
00:13:21
Speaker
It was really awesome.
00:13:23
Speaker
But because I was an animator, and so were all the rest of the guys in there, we got hooked up with Jersey Jack.
00:13:33
Speaker
So Greg Freres came over and art directed a shoot for The Wizard of Oz.
00:13:40
Speaker
where we were doing we had an actress dressed up as the Wicked Witch doing the movements, and then we replaced her face with the actual witch's face.
00:13:50
Speaker
I then designed the entire Beckham menu system of Jersey Jack's machines.
00:13:55
Speaker
So if you love that menu system, you're freaking welcome, Internet.
00:13:58
Speaker
I think it's like the most beautiful thing.
00:14:00
Speaker
I know I'm blowing smoke up my own rear end here, but it's yeah.
00:14:05
Speaker
Anyway, so once once we got to see like the the behind the scenes stuff in pinball, I wanted to know more about all the manufacturers and just
00:14:18
Speaker
Again, learn as much as I could.
00:14:20
Speaker
When I find a hobby, I try to just completely consume everything about it.
00:14:25
Speaker
And the streaming thing was completely on accident where I was just trying to record myself and my friends playing pinball to see if we could get better at like, like see the mistakes we were doing and try to fix that.
00:14:38
Speaker
And then one of the other animators that were in the studio were like, hey, you got to check out this Twitch thing.
00:14:42
Speaker
And we started streaming and it really just sort of started snowballing from there.
00:14:47
Speaker
But we didn't go.
00:14:48
Speaker
I didn't go full time streaming and not do anything else until about maybe two years ago.
00:14:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:56
Speaker
Well, that's cool.
00:14:57
Speaker
That's cool that like you were a part of kind of the foundation of Jersey Jack as well.
00:15:01
Speaker
I didn't realize that I thought it was essentially in Jersey Jack or not in Jersey Jack in New Jersey.
00:15:07
Speaker
And then they kind of migrated to Chicago, but they've always kind of been here, huh?
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:11
Speaker
The entire core team, like designers and like engineers and stuff, they were all here in Chicago.
00:15:17
Speaker
Obviously their main animator,
00:15:20
Speaker
Jean-Paul DeWin lived overseas, but it was all being developed here and then being manufactured in Jersey.
00:15:26
Speaker
But now everything is here in Chicago.
00:15:29
Speaker
Well, I know that one of my favorite episodes is when Head to Head did interview you and they told you that you're kind of the person that has the...
00:15:37
Speaker
kind of the hand shank and the wink between all the pinball companies.
00:15:41
Speaker
Cause you, you've helped Jersey Jack, you've helped spooky.
00:15:45
Speaker
I mean, obviously you work with Stern.
00:15:47
Speaker
Um, you've helped with American pinball.
00:15:49
Speaker
Um, why is that?
00:15:51
Speaker
Like I, you just, you right place, right time or, um, I think just because I was sort of like surfing the, the front of this wave of promoting pinball and, um,
00:16:05
Speaker
Just, you know, I, who knows?
00:16:08
Speaker
I think it was, it might just be right place, right time.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:13
Speaker
I, I also like very early on would reach out to everybody and be like, Hey, you know, I do the same where I show off these games.
00:16:18
Speaker
No, it's not a podcast.
00:16:20
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:16:21
Speaker
I got, it got called a podcast constantly because a lot of people did, they couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of this like live streaming thing.
00:16:28
Speaker
Um, and yeah, I got hooked up with spooky and have revealed almost all of their games.
00:16:34
Speaker
Uh, I've done the reveals for most of American pinballs
Pioneering Pinball Streaming
00:16:38
Speaker
games, uh, stern.
00:16:39
Speaker
I've been doing their game reveals since the walking dead, which is, that was a lifetime ago.
00:16:46
Speaker
Um, walking dead is where we sort of created the idea of, um, live streaming a brand new machine as it's being revealed that this happened at expo.
00:16:56
Speaker
And that was a hundred percent right place, right time.
00:17:00
Speaker
I was sitting outside of a door holding all my streaming gear, which was like poles with duct tape and stuff on them.
00:17:05
Speaker
And Jody Dankberg comes out of this door and he's wrestling with this walking dead sign.
00:17:11
Speaker
I didn't know who he was, so I just got up and helped him.
00:17:13
Speaker
He's like, hey, you're that guy that has that podcast.
00:17:15
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, that's me, I guess.
00:17:19
Speaker
And he's like, hey, you should come do that on The Walking Dead.
00:17:22
Speaker
We're going to show it off and then have a big tournament.
00:17:25
Speaker
And that was the first time we ever worked with Stern.
00:17:28
Speaker
And that was the first time a new game was ever released live on the Internet.
00:17:35
Speaker
And it was all like our relationship has just grown from there.
00:17:40
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:17:41
Speaker
A pioneer of sorts, if you want to.
00:17:43
Speaker
Listen, I'll take it.
00:17:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:46
Speaker
Jack, the pioneer danger.
00:17:48
Speaker
I'm not full of myself, but I'm kind of full of myself.
00:17:53
Speaker
So, Jack, when you go from a hobby to it being the main thing you do every day, what are some of the pitfalls that you found that you didn't know were there?
00:18:03
Speaker
Oh, geez.
00:18:05
Speaker
I will say that it is hard to want to play pinball games.
00:18:11
Speaker
casually just for fun.
00:18:14
Speaker
I do find times where I'm just like, um, I know I'm going to stream pinball tonight for several hours.
00:18:20
Speaker
Uh, and if I, I I'm surrounded by all these games that anyone in pinball would just be like, what the frick are you doing?
00:18:27
Speaker
Not playing all of these, but because I play for like three to four hours every night and have for like six years, um,
00:18:36
Speaker
it's hard to just walk in here and be like, oh yeah, I can't wait to jam on some Beatles before I get to work and then do the stream tonight.
00:18:45
Speaker
If a new game comes in, obviously I'm spending all the time in the world on that thing.
00:18:48
Speaker
But yeah, it's tough.
00:18:51
Speaker
It's tough.
00:18:52
Speaker
I love what I do, but it's hard to... Yeah, I don't know.
00:18:59
Speaker
It's just keeping that interest up with the whole collection and
00:19:05
Speaker
instead of just knowing like I'm going to do this thing tonight and just have fun with that one game this evening.
00:19:10
Speaker
What about what about relationships you have to maintain?
00:19:13
Speaker
I mean, this is the challenge with podcasts.
00:19:15
Speaker
For the most part, we want to be we want to have good relationships with people, but we don't really since it doesn't really affect my job.
00:19:24
Speaker
If I have a critical thing to say, I feel free that I can say it whether or not I if I if I need to or I want to.
00:19:32
Speaker
But if you have relationships with these companies, how does that limit you in what you feel like?
00:19:39
Speaker
I can say this.
00:19:40
Speaker
I can't say that.
00:19:43
Speaker
this is always the challenging thing when you start mixing the water.
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:19:48
Speaker
I typically never have anything negative to say about pinball machines.
00:19:52
Speaker
And it's not that I'm like a fan boy in any regard.
00:19:55
Speaker
It's just, you know, it's, it's not my place to say something sucks, right?
00:19:59
Speaker
A lot of people put a lot of time and effort into making something.
00:20:03
Speaker
And if I'm not a fan of it, you know, I can say I'm not a fan of it, but I'm not going to be like, man, this ramp is garbage.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I, you know, I,
00:20:11
Speaker
why would anyone play this game?
00:20:12
Speaker
All pinball is great pinball, even if it's like...
00:20:16
Speaker
a garbage daddy, you Simpsons.
00:20:19
Speaker
It's just, um, I, I just, yeah, I just don't have any real negative opinions on anything pinball.
00:20:26
Speaker
I will say things like, um, I fricking hate this game.
00:20:31
Speaker
Um, but that's just me when a ball drains on me and I'm just frustrated in that moment.
00:20:37
Speaker
Uh, but yeah, I, I, I have, I have no place to nitpick anything that someone spent, you know, all this time and effort on, on making.
00:20:44
Speaker
I like that point of view as well, because I think, I don't know, we all kind of do a new reveal comes out and people nitpick the crap out of it, you know, and we don't realize the behind and you kind of get to see the behind the scenes of what's being made.
00:20:58
Speaker
And I mean, 13, 14 months down the road, it finally gets revealed.
00:21:01
Speaker
And I know Keith Elwin said this too, you know, he's kind of, he's kind of done with it by the end of it.
00:21:05
Speaker
It's like,
00:21:06
Speaker
people are first getting to see this for the first time.
00:21:08
Speaker
And I've been working on this for 13 months, you know?
00:21:10
Speaker
And, and so, um, I don't know.
00:21:14
Speaker
I I'm kind of right there with you, you know, just take a step back.
00:21:16
Speaker
Like, yeah, be a little more supportive.
00:21:22
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:21:23
Speaker
I mean, you, you can, you can have your opinions, but there's no reason to like go all in on trashing something because it's just not your cup of tea.
00:21:33
Speaker
What makes a game something that you tend to like?
00:21:37
Speaker
Is there a style that you tend to like in a game, whether or not it's a diverter, a different layout, flow, trap and shoot, interesting art package, interesting design?
00:21:51
Speaker
rule set anything that jumps out that you're really excited when you hear about it i like really obscure shots i think that's why deadpool is one of my favorite pinball machines with that cross shot to the ramp um a lot of uh i mean i i don't like saying the designer's name but there was a designer who's no longer designing pinball machines uh or in the hobby at all thank god but um
00:22:19
Speaker
created some some wild wacky designs that I just love I love randomness but I also love flow so I want the game to feel a little out of control but at times you could make it go where you want to and the ball just doesn't slow down I don't like stopping and shooting too much it's okay if it's thrown in there but I you know
00:22:40
Speaker
I'm still learning to get better at aiming and I don't like target practice all that well.
00:22:45
Speaker
So I just, I want that ball to be flowing around the play field as fast as it possibly can.
00:22:51
Speaker
Um, my favorite games right now are Batman 66.
00:22:54
Speaker
I don't know that game just flows really well.
00:22:58
Speaker
There's not a whole lot of stop and go Deadpool.
00:23:00
Speaker
And then I would have to say, uh, Jackpot, which is actually super stop and go.
00:23:05
Speaker
Not a, now that I think about it.
00:23:06
Speaker
Hmm.
00:23:07
Speaker
I don't know.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:09
Speaker
It's kind of a sniper game between the, uh, the, the eyes and then getting that casino shot up around behind the ramp.
00:23:14
Speaker
Frick.
00:23:14
Speaker
Maybe I don't know what I like.
00:23:17
Speaker
It's all completely random.
00:23:20
Speaker
So one of the things, uh, I was looking at recently, a lot of people have been ranking this, this year's pinball machines from, from favorite to, to may not the top of their list.
00:23:30
Speaker
So I'm going to give you a list.
00:23:31
Speaker
I want to, I want to see which ones are your favorites from this year.
00:23:33
Speaker
So, um,
00:23:35
Speaker
We have, let's start with the recent ones.
00:23:37
Speaker
Have you played Guns N' Roses yet?
00:23:39
Speaker
I have not had the privilege to play that game yet.
00:23:42
Speaker
Okay, we'll leave that one off the list then.
00:23:44
Speaker
We've got Avengers.
00:23:46
Speaker
We've got Ninja Turtles.
00:23:48
Speaker
We've got Hot Wheels.
00:23:51
Speaker
And Rick and Morty wasn't this year, was it?
00:23:54
Speaker
It might have been January.
00:23:55
Speaker
I don't know.
00:23:57
Speaker
It may have been.
00:23:58
Speaker
We can put in the list.
00:23:59
Speaker
This isn't really official.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah, we'll put it on the list.
00:24:01
Speaker
So you got Turtles, Rick and Morty, Hot Wheels, and Avengers.
00:24:06
Speaker
Which one would you go to first?
00:24:08
Speaker
I've been having a ton of fun on Avengers right now.
00:24:11
Speaker
That game has a uniqueness that I haven't seen in a while in pinball, for sure.
00:24:19
Speaker
Turtles is great, and it's packed up.
00:24:22
Speaker
my brain hates that left ramp on that game.
00:24:25
Speaker
And for some reason, it just won't let me shoot it.
00:24:29
Speaker
Not the center ramp, the left, the far left ramp.
00:24:33
Speaker
I, yeah, not, not the one that you hit with the upper foot, just your basic.
00:24:36
Speaker
There's a ramp there on the left.
00:24:38
Speaker
And for some reason, my freaking old man brain will not let me shoot that ramp.
00:24:42
Speaker
I don't know what it is.
00:24:45
Speaker
I really have to like stop reading chat, focus up, stare at the dang thing, and then shoot it to make it work.
00:24:52
Speaker
My, I just, my internal rhythm just doesn't like where that shot is.
00:24:57
Speaker
It's the Raphael skill shot.
00:25:00
Speaker
It's hard to.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
But yeah, turtle turtles is rad.
00:25:04
Speaker
I've I've played that game in a lot of different iterations and the code keeps getting better on that thing.
00:25:10
Speaker
The Hot Wheels game by American Pinball.
00:25:14
Speaker
I have that here in the studio and that game is a blast, but there's, there's so many like different things you could do on the game that, um, unless someone tells me to like, Hey Jack, why don't you see what you could do?
00:25:28
Speaker
Uh, like in placements in a race, be like, okay, let's focus up on this because there's so many strategies you can do to like blow that game up.
00:25:35
Speaker
It sort of overwhelms my brain a little bit, but that is an awesome problem to have that there's so much to do on that pin.
00:25:43
Speaker
And then what else were we missing?
00:25:45
Speaker
Rick and Morty?
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah, that one.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yep.
00:25:47
Speaker
Scott and EC, bro.
00:25:48
Speaker
I mean, that's all you got to say.
00:25:51
Speaker
The humor on the thing is great.
00:25:53
Speaker
I wish I still had it, but that game was getting me DMCA flagged left and freaking right every time I streamed it.
00:26:00
Speaker
So that content almost... I don't know if I have any videos of me even playing that game.
00:26:05
Speaker
Crazy.
00:26:06
Speaker
Even the video was getting flagged on that.
00:26:08
Speaker
So it was rough.
00:26:09
Speaker
Really?
Pinball Themes and Community Engagement
00:26:11
Speaker
I think pinball needed a younger, fresher theme like Rick and Morty, especially to prove to other companies that you can reach out to stuff that's still being developed right now.
00:26:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:24
Speaker
Not resurrecting 80s themes.
00:26:25
Speaker
Right, right, right, right.
00:26:27
Speaker
Well, and you've been kind of on the bandwagon of newer titles for a while now.
00:26:31
Speaker
I know that you've been kind of pushing, I think Pokemon's one.
00:26:34
Speaker
I know that's not like a super new title, but...
00:26:37
Speaker
It's the largest franchise period, you know, and the fact that it has had several video game pinball machine adaptations and we don't have a physical one.
00:26:49
Speaker
Come on.
00:26:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:50
Speaker
Come on, pinball.
00:26:52
Speaker
But I know it seems like, and we always joke about this, whenever you tune into Dead Flip and you're talking with him, there is at some point in the broadcast, there's going to be like themes that people want to talk about.
00:27:05
Speaker
It's hard to avoid.
00:27:07
Speaker
I mean, it's I don't know why we keep coming back to it.
00:27:09
Speaker
And I'll even in the moment, I'll be like, why did I say that?
00:27:12
Speaker
I just open I just open this like can of worms that I can't stop the chat from talking about what they want to see in pinball or just, you know, I'll be shooting like, man, you know, like, oh, that'd make a cool shot in like a Power Rangers game or something.
00:27:24
Speaker
And then just off they go for into the sunset talking about everything they want in their freaking I don't know.
00:27:34
Speaker
everyone wants original themes.
00:27:36
Speaker
I don't know that that will ever work again.
00:27:40
Speaker
Uh, there's, there's some people like for the big manufacturers.
00:27:43
Speaker
I don't know that you're going to see any more original themes.
00:27:46
Speaker
Uh, you got games like kelts and stuff coming out, which is fricking awesome.
00:27:51
Speaker
Um, but when it comes to themes that people are asking for, ah, dude, I don't know.
00:27:57
Speaker
It is all over the fricking board.
00:28:00
Speaker
So you're not going to make that Gwar pinball machine?
00:28:04
Speaker
You know what?
00:28:05
Speaker
I think I've only seen the one person ever ask for Gwar.
00:28:11
Speaker
Harry Potter, people will not shut up about.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:14
Speaker
but I promise you, whoever makes that game is not going to make everyone happy, you know, because every, yeah, everyone's idea of what a Harry Potter game should be.
00:28:25
Speaker
The thing should turn invisible.
00:28:27
Speaker
It's going to be levitating on a broom.
00:28:29
Speaker
And if it isn't, then why did you make this game?
00:28:32
Speaker
It's the same thing as, uh, it's like when a book comes out, everyone's like, which book do you want to be adapted into a movie?
00:28:39
Speaker
They're like, Oh, I want that book.
00:28:40
Speaker
And then it comes out.
00:28:41
Speaker
They're like,
00:28:41
Speaker
yeah but the book was better i mean it really just wasn't what i thought it was gonna be so it's it kind of stinks because it's not what you pictured in your head when you're reading the thing right oh it's rough yeah themes anyway i yeah it it sidetracks my broadcasts and it just sidetracked this podcast hey well let's sidetrack it more what do you your top five themes that you want
00:29:04
Speaker
Oh gosh, my top five.
00:29:07
Speaker
Um, I would, let's say I'm designing pinball machines.
00:29:10
Speaker
I would like to make a power Rangers.
00:29:12
Speaker
I would like to make Beetlejuice.
00:29:14
Speaker
I would like to make a Pee Wee's big adventure.
00:29:18
Speaker
pinball machine with a lower playfield you can never get to, which is labeled the basement of the Alamo.
00:29:24
Speaker
I think that'd be fantastic.
00:29:27
Speaker
Just a complete troll lower playfield.
00:29:31
Speaker
Pokemon, obviously, I think it's such a great idea.
00:29:34
Speaker
And if I had to throw another video game in there, I don't know, something
00:29:41
Speaker
Like I want like a dungeons and dragons, another D and D pinball machine.
00:29:46
Speaker
Oh, I, I actually have, I have flashbacks about the dungeons and dragons.
00:29:50
Speaker
When I was playing one at a Rocky mountain pinball show, I was launching the ball and it had such a hard time getting around.
00:29:58
Speaker
And so finally I,
00:29:59
Speaker
pulled it back and really shot it and it broke off a post.
00:30:03
Speaker
Oh no.
00:30:03
Speaker
And I felt so bad because the post kind of rattled down.
00:30:07
Speaker
It was near, you know, near where the outlane was.
00:30:10
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm just going to turn off this machine and put a note on there.
00:30:14
Speaker
Sorry, bro.
00:30:15
Speaker
You're, you're a post broke.
00:30:18
Speaker
That game has one of the sickest fricking beats as a soundtrack.
00:30:23
Speaker
If you go back and listen to it, like I want to sample that and have someone rap over it.
00:30:27
Speaker
It is amazing.
00:30:28
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:30:29
Speaker
So you've been doing this for a while now.
00:30:31
Speaker
You've rubbed shoulders with some pretty popular people, not only in the industry, but outside the industry.
00:30:37
Speaker
Who has been your favorite person to be, maybe interview or get to play some pinball with and why?
00:30:45
Speaker
I'd say the coolest quote unquote celebrity experience I had was when Scott Denisi and I were delivering the first TNA to Ed Robertson's house up in Canada.
00:30:59
Speaker
We took a road trip.
00:31:00
Speaker
We hand delivered the thing when we got there.
00:31:02
Speaker
It's like, cool.
00:31:03
Speaker
Here's, here's my house.
00:31:05
Speaker
I'm going to leave for two hours to go do a show and you just go set this up.
00:31:11
Speaker
So Scott and I are in Ed Robertson's house and we're like, this dude just trusts us to like be in here.
00:31:17
Speaker
And he's gone.
00:31:19
Speaker
Like, I, I don't steal, but I'm like, I might have to steal now that like, you just leaving me to this.
00:31:25
Speaker
Like,
00:31:26
Speaker
Um, but once he came back and we started streaming that, that was, that was a blast.
00:31:30
Speaker
That is awesome.
00:31:31
Speaker
I do remember that, that reveal stream wasn't Charlie was supposed to go with you guys, but he didn't have like his passport or something.
00:31:36
Speaker
Right.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:37
Speaker
I think that was what the issue.
00:31:38
Speaker
That's what they found out that he had never left a Wisconsin or something.
00:31:43
Speaker
And he's like in Wisconsin, which is essentially Canada.
00:31:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker
But no, that was, that's great.
00:31:50
Speaker
No, I do remember that was, that was a great reveal streams as well.
00:31:53
Speaker
Uh, hanging out there with Ed Robertson and whatnot.
00:31:55
Speaker
So,
00:31:56
Speaker
Well, the funny thing talking to Ed and when you hear, we've never interviewed Ed, but he has a great way of disarming people when they feel very much awkward.
00:32:06
Speaker
And that's his job.
00:32:07
Speaker
I mean, his job as a performer and he's been doing it for years.
00:32:10
Speaker
But that's just normal to him.
00:32:13
Speaker
And when people, sometimes it gets really hard for them to get above that celebrity.
00:32:19
Speaker
I know you from this one thing.
00:32:21
Speaker
And so it's hard for me to connect with you on a normal level.
00:32:23
Speaker
And he's like, hey, that's cool.
00:32:25
Speaker
Want to play pinball?
00:32:27
Speaker
So, yeah, I like that.
00:32:28
Speaker
It's a great way of just saying, hey, you know, I appreciate the year of fan.
00:32:31
Speaker
Let's go do something that is a level playing field.
00:32:34
Speaker
Let's just go play.
00:32:36
Speaker
So, yeah, he's a he's a super solid dude.
00:32:38
Speaker
I love it.
00:32:39
Speaker
He texts me pictures of the weirdest crap at all hours of the night.
00:32:45
Speaker
And I just I wouldn't have it any other way.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:50
Speaker
No, it's funny.
00:32:51
Speaker
I would love to, at some point interview Ed because we, I've actually seen him a few times in concert and it's just, it's, it's such a fun show.
00:33:00
Speaker
And just to know that behind the scenes that he's actually a nice guy, a lot of these celebrities, when you meet, when you peek behind the scenes, you're like, yeah, I kind of wish I didn't know what their real personality was, but it's just, yeah, that guy's actually kind of a jerk.
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:14
Speaker
So it's, it just seems really nice that the, this guy is just genuine down to earth and it,
00:33:20
Speaker
doesn't feel like there's this barrier between you and him.
00:33:24
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:33:24
Speaker
We are lucky to have him as a pinhead for this hobby for sure.
00:33:29
Speaker
Well, it's awesome that he loves pinball so much.
00:33:31
Speaker
He named one of his albums after, you know, this is awesome.
00:33:35
Speaker
I mean, what a champion.
00:33:37
Speaker
Thank you, Ed, for your service.
00:33:40
Speaker
I love, I don't know if you've ever had this where you're in a conversation with someone that's really not into pinball and you're, you're trying to, you know, get them excited for it.
00:33:48
Speaker
And they just look at you like, no one plays pinball.
00:33:50
Speaker
And then you're like, and then you're like, well, you know, Ed Robertson of Bare Naked Ladies, like he's huge into pinball or, you know, slash from Guns N' Roses.
00:33:57
Speaker
And they look at you like, no, you show them a picture or something like that.
00:34:03
Speaker
There's other people that aren't, that are normal that actually play this.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, we were at this place called Bottom Lounge here in Chicago right when Black Knight came out.
00:34:15
Speaker
And we set up the game and we were doing a photo shoot where Scott Ian of Anthrax was in town.
00:34:23
Speaker
So he came to this venue.
00:34:25
Speaker
He might have actually been playing at the venue.
00:34:28
Speaker
But we recorded him.
00:34:30
Speaker
playing his game because he was the one that was like shredding on there with brendan smalls and all these people in this bar everyone he was just open to everybody anyone could have just walked up to him and like slapped him in the head uh not that they would but like it was that open that everyone's like that's scotty in and what the hell is he why is he playing pinball like he's just sitting there he looks like he's having a good time and everyone's like is that is that scotty i'm like yeah
00:34:55
Speaker
He did the soundtrack for this pinball machine.
00:34:57
Speaker
Like that's a new pinball machine.
00:35:00
Speaker
Yeah, they still make them.
00:35:01
Speaker
Could you believe it?
00:35:02
Speaker
They still make pinball machines, Internet.
00:35:04
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's basically my my main job is just working at a hospital.
00:35:11
Speaker
But when when people say, you know, hey, what do you do?
00:35:14
Speaker
Well, I I have a few pinball machines.
00:35:16
Speaker
Really?
00:35:17
Speaker
It's always the same thing.
00:35:18
Speaker
Really?
00:35:19
Speaker
Huh?
00:35:20
Speaker
How many do you have?
00:35:21
Speaker
I have 14.
00:35:23
Speaker
Really?
00:35:25
Speaker
Do they still make those?
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:27
Speaker
Oh, really?
00:35:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:29
Speaker
Can I come play them?
00:35:30
Speaker
It's always in that same progression where it's such a weird thing that people just don't see because I grew up in the heyday of arcades.
00:35:39
Speaker
But now since all the arcades are dead and now they're kiddie gambling joints in the Chuck E. Cheese, that it's hard to actually say, no, they actually made these things so people would go in and pay money and play them on location.
00:35:53
Speaker
So...
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah, they still make those is definitely the question we get all the time.
00:35:58
Speaker
If I go to conventions with Stern, there's people coming up and be like, hey, your name's what?
00:36:03
Speaker
Jack Danger?
00:36:04
Speaker
Cool.
00:36:04
Speaker
They still make these things?
00:36:05
Speaker
Like, yeah, dude, come on.
00:36:08
Speaker
Or just streaming this stuff on Twitch, the people coming in and be like, hey, my – whoa, my great-grandpa had one of these.
00:36:15
Speaker
Like, shut up, kid.
00:36:16
Speaker
Come on.
00:36:16
Speaker
You –
00:36:17
Speaker
You can go play these anywhere.
00:36:19
Speaker
Well, what's the reaction like CES?
00:36:21
Speaker
Because that's not even a pinball show.
00:36:23
Speaker
That's just, you know, the consumer electronics show there in Vegas or whatever.
00:36:27
Speaker
It we are more, I think, a pit stop in between like technology things.
00:36:34
Speaker
We get a lot of people coming over to like record video and ask us about it.
00:36:38
Speaker
But, you know, we're not like folding cell phones or, you know, drones and stuff.
00:36:44
Speaker
So, yeah, it's we usually have like lines around our booth, but it's just people there to just have fun, which is really the goal with a pinball company.
00:36:55
Speaker
By the way, I say we, I got called out for this a lot.
00:36:58
Speaker
I say we a lot when I'm talking about any pinball manufacturer, but it's the royal we, right?
00:37:04
Speaker
When I say we, I'm talking about my audience.
00:37:06
Speaker
I'm talking about the people I'm working with.
00:37:09
Speaker
I'm an independent contractor, but it is a freaking meme that I'm like a full-time employee at every one of these dang companies.
00:37:16
Speaker
Hey, that's a good meme to have.
00:37:19
Speaker
You'd rather be the bro for all the pinball companies as opposed to the villain.
00:37:24
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:37:25
Speaker
And I have, I mean, I also do have Stern business cards, but they say the senior director of drinking, trolling, and meme development.
00:37:31
Speaker
So I'm pretty sure that's not a real job at Stern, but we'll see.
00:37:37
Speaker
That is awesome.
00:37:38
Speaker
Yeah, see, I'm more of the king of sarcasm, but other than that.
00:37:43
Speaker
Okay, I gotta ask, whenever you're in chat, I know that when people subscribe or they do bits, or no, it's mainly with subscribing, sorry.
00:37:51
Speaker
You do the flippers and butts.
00:37:53
Speaker
Where did that even come from?
00:37:57
Speaker
So, it is weird.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yes, I will also admit, like when new people come in, they're like, what the heck is this dude talking about?
00:38:04
Speaker
You know, flippers and butts.
00:38:06
Speaker
When we first got partnered, we got a flipper emote.
00:38:09
Speaker
So it used to be just flippers up, right?
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
Um, flippers up, flippers up.
00:38:14
Speaker
And, uh, then Stern dropped off a new WWE machine.
00:38:19
Speaker
When it first came out, we unboxed it.
00:38:21
Speaker
We sort of revealed it in my studio.
00:38:25
Speaker
And, um, during the stream, we unlocked a new emote slot from people subscribing.
00:38:30
Speaker
And, um,
00:38:32
Speaker
There was an extra ball animation on WWE.
00:38:36
Speaker
If you ever play that game and get the extra ball, it's two butts that fly in from either side of the DMD and collide with each other.
00:38:44
Speaker
So these two butts come in, they smack each other, then they fly away and it says extra ball.
00:38:48
Speaker
And I was like, that's it.
00:38:50
Speaker
Like we need a butt emote.
00:38:52
Speaker
But because we only had two emotes at the time, whenever someone would subscribe, I'd be like, hey, flippers up.
00:38:58
Speaker
But because we had two, people are like just posting whatever they want.
00:39:01
Speaker
So I just made it a thing like flippers or butts or flippers, but what, you know, so it wasn't always flippers and butts.
00:39:07
Speaker
It was just or, but it just sort of, you know, turned into that.
00:39:11
Speaker
And now that we have like, I don't know, like freaking 30 emotes, it's just we stick to those two.
00:39:16
Speaker
It's a nice little inside joke for the people that have been around forever.
00:39:19
Speaker
That is awesome.
00:39:19
Speaker
Awesome.
00:39:20
Speaker
I never knew that.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:21
Speaker
Something good came from WWE.
00:39:27
Speaker
I need to play that game again because I feel like that game gets a bad rap.
00:39:30
Speaker
But also every time I play it, I'm like, maybe I see why this game gets a bad rap.
00:39:34
Speaker
Just contact Raymond Davidson.
00:39:35
Speaker
I think he's won like 10 of them.
00:39:38
Speaker
Oh, he has.
00:39:38
Speaker
Yeah, he has like a couple in a box or in boxes somewhere, right?
00:39:42
Speaker
Like sitting in Seattle or something.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think eventually because he would win all the tournaments.
00:39:47
Speaker
And usually it was a, hey, pick a stern of your choice.
00:39:50
Speaker
And then finally they said, here, you got WWE.
00:39:53
Speaker
Pick a WWE of your choice.
00:39:54
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:39:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I know.
00:39:58
Speaker
Sorry.
00:39:59
Speaker
It's, you know, that's the problem.
00:40:01
Speaker
Everybody wants to have a hit every time.
00:40:02
Speaker
But sometimes you kind of ground out.
00:40:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:06
Speaker
Yeah, I can't even find one of those around.
00:40:09
Speaker
I don't even know where I would begin to go find a WWE to even give it like another chance.
00:40:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's kind of that's kind of moved for obvious reasons to the back parlors of pinball history.
00:40:23
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:40:23
Speaker
You should just come to Vernal.
00:40:24
Speaker
We have one here, weirdly enough.
00:40:26
Speaker
So, oh, bring the kids for the dinosaurs and we'll go play some WWE.
00:40:31
Speaker
Man, you got all them dinos up there, dude.
00:40:33
Speaker
I did.
00:40:34
Speaker
I think the last time I streamed WWE was there was like an outdoor festival that invited me to come stream pinball like outdoors.
00:40:43
Speaker
And it was a nightmare to do because of glare and sound and everything.
00:40:48
Speaker
And we found a scoring bug in that game.
00:40:50
Speaker
And I essentially like broke the machine scoring on it.
00:40:53
Speaker
And that's when I finally had my first conversation with Wason.
00:40:58
Speaker
who was the programmer on the game.
00:41:01
Speaker
And he just sent me a laundry list of everything that was like that, like bugs he found.
00:41:06
Speaker
And I was like, cool, dude.
00:41:07
Speaker
Like, I'm sure we're all, we're all waiting for that code update.
00:41:11
Speaker
So it's totally coming.
00:41:12
Speaker
Totally coming.
00:41:15
Speaker
I love wasting to death, man.
00:41:16
Speaker
He is the coolest cat over at Stern.
00:41:18
Speaker
He is pretty cool.
00:41:19
Speaker
Well, and I see him often on the, when you guys do the reveal streams, it always seems like wasting pops in.
00:41:25
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:41:25
Speaker
He's very good at keeping the conversation going.
00:41:29
Speaker
He's very knowledgeable about what's going on in the game.
00:41:33
Speaker
Code wise, geometry, whatever.
00:41:35
Speaker
He could just look over, know like where we're at and fill chat in on what's going on.
00:41:40
Speaker
So it's nice to have him around.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's the crazy thing.
00:41:43
Speaker
Anytime you're streaming, when you have the commentators on there.
00:41:46
Speaker
when you have someone who knows the in-depth analysis of the rules, it makes such a difference because they will say, well, he or she should go for this shot or they should do this because that would do this.
00:42:00
Speaker
And it opens up a complete new realm for me because I'm not a rules guy.
00:42:06
Speaker
I know enough to be dangerous, but nothing really to be a tournament level guy where he's like, well, I really want to hit these shots because it'll give me the most points.
00:42:17
Speaker
So it's really interesting to find that.
00:42:19
Speaker
During those reveal streams, my brain is on hoping the broadcast is going well versus like listening to what rules are being, you know, spewed into my ear.
00:42:30
Speaker
So when I'm flipping, I'm just flipping.
00:42:33
Speaker
And if it looks like I know what I'm doing, then that's complete happenstance.
00:42:36
Speaker
Like I'm just...
00:42:38
Speaker
I'm just doing my thing.
00:42:40
Speaker
If someone says shoot here, then I'll shoot it.
00:42:42
Speaker
But if they're like, hey, Jack, going into this ball, make sure you shoot this three times and spin this.
00:42:46
Speaker
And that's going to unlock that.
00:42:47
Speaker
And then go over here and be like, I'm just going to I'm just going to flip the I'm just going to flip the ball and make the game look good.
00:42:51
Speaker
So that's that's what's going to happen.
00:42:53
Speaker
One of my favorite moments is when you were streaming Deadpool and you're blowing up the game.
00:42:58
Speaker
And wasn't it Gomez that walked over and say, hey.
00:43:01
Speaker
chill out you need to like train the ball or something we got to get the you know yep yep yep yeah that um man that it's it's been fun doing the reveal streams for them over the years because we we now have like uh
00:43:16
Speaker
strategic hand gestures and words will say if we need to like stop doing something.
00:43:23
Speaker
But it's been a learning process moving up to this.
00:43:26
Speaker
Well, especially with this year with COVID.
00:43:27
Speaker
I mean, how much different has it been having to go over those hurdles with Stern?
00:43:34
Speaker
So,
00:43:35
Speaker
COVID has, it's been interesting because usually I, I see all these games like being developed from idea to finish and Avengers was the first pinball machine out of Stern in a very long time that I didn't see.
00:43:51
Speaker
I saw Keith put the Avengers tower and maybe the captive ball on a whitewood.
00:43:58
Speaker
And then that's the last time I saw the game before the production game came out.
00:44:03
Speaker
But yeah, it's it's been wild.
00:44:05
Speaker
But like going back there now, it feels like nothing's changed.
00:44:09
Speaker
There is like masks, masks and hand sanitizer and clear plastic barriers literally everywhere.
00:44:18
Speaker
So it looks like you're walking around like a creepy abandoned hospital with just like how much plastic is just everywhere.
00:44:26
Speaker
Um, but you know, they're, they're still cranking away.
00:44:28
Speaker
So we were, we're back to where we were, but for that period of time, it was, it was pretty wild being all remote, having to have meetings over the computers and stuff like that.
00:44:40
Speaker
So with the challenges of having basically any licensing products or such as, you know, you're talking about streaming Rick and Morty, we've talked about this before.
Challenges in Pinball Streaming
00:44:53
Speaker
You have helped develop this direct capture things for streamers.
00:44:57
Speaker
And how is that going to affect things if you're going to be, well, one, we can talk about the card and we want to know more about that.
00:45:04
Speaker
And two, we want to talk about how is that going to limit your ability to stream if they're going to slap a, shut it down every time you do something that's licensed?
00:45:14
Speaker
Well, that in there is the reason it is not ready.
00:45:18
Speaker
Um, so it, it does its capturing it.
00:45:21
Speaker
Like when I built my prototype of this thing years ago, um,
00:45:27
Speaker
it approached capturing different than what the cards are doing now that we've developed with Stern.
00:45:32
Speaker
But, um,
00:45:34
Speaker
what that card is doing is it's, it's pulling essentially copyrighted material off of the game for you to broadcast somewhere else, which is, uh, the same problem we're having with the audio or like Rick and Morty, uh, with DMCA cracking down on you.
00:45:51
Speaker
So, um, like it's not in the license that, you know, Joe Schmo can, uh, take the video off of this game and broadcast it somewhere, you know?
00:46:03
Speaker
Same with the audio licenses and stuff.
00:46:04
Speaker
So, uh, all this DMCA stuff is causing a real big headache for everything.
00:46:10
Speaker
And it's, uh, like, it's a law from like fricking mid nineties, you know, before internet was even really a big thing.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:20
Speaker
So we're, we're just, um, we're all sort of sitting on our hands waiting for new laws to come out or for this to be fixed somehow.
00:46:28
Speaker
Um, Amazon's got to hopefully help Twitch figure this out.
00:46:32
Speaker
YouTube, Facebook, everyone's getting hit with it.
00:46:34
Speaker
Um, Twitch is just getting hit with it the hardest right now, but that's, uh, that's the hurdle with the card right now is like putting that in the public's hands is essentially giving them a, a way to get themselves in trouble.
00:46:47
Speaker
Mm.
00:46:48
Speaker
How do they feel about eight tracks?
00:46:50
Speaker
I mean, are they still going to allow those?
00:46:53
Speaker
Good old eight tracks.
00:46:55
Speaker
Well, do you think that... I know DMCA has been really hard on you as of lately and a lot of people in general.
00:47:03
Speaker
Do you think there could be some sort of like... Because obviously Stern has... I know Stern has licensed from a different person, but it's a lot of their product.
00:47:14
Speaker
Do you think there could be like an official, hey, I'm an official Stern,
00:47:18
Speaker
streamer or whatnot represented.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:21
Speaker
So I, me personally, I have an out to fix any problems that I may have, um, for the most part, uh, because I can lean on Stern to help me, but that doesn't help the community.
00:47:35
Speaker
That doesn't help everyone else.
00:47:36
Speaker
So, um, I, I don't care to just do my thing and then put, uh,
00:47:43
Speaker
in the idea in people's heads that they can also do the same thing because I don't want people getting in trouble for that.
00:47:48
Speaker
So I'm trying to shout from the rafters, like, be careful.
00:47:52
Speaker
Here's ways to turn off the copyrighted music.
00:47:54
Speaker
Here's how, you know, blah, blah, blah, do all this stuff.
00:47:58
Speaker
And the bots right now that are tracking the copyrighted music and the copyrighted video, they don't care if you have the rights to anything.
00:48:05
Speaker
You know, like musicians are playing their own music on Twitch and getting strikes.
00:48:12
Speaker
So the bots will go after anything.
00:48:16
Speaker
And then you have to spend time appealing that.
00:48:19
Speaker
And it immediately shuts you down, too.
00:48:22
Speaker
It's not like there's a person that says, no, we're shutting you down.
00:48:25
Speaker
You have to convince us to unshut you down.
00:48:28
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:48:29
Speaker
Facebook will shut you down live.
00:48:31
Speaker
Like if you're streaming live and you're doing some copyrighted music nonsense, your stream will end.
00:48:37
Speaker
They they will shut you down.
00:48:40
Speaker
Twitch, at least for now, lets you just roll with the punches.
00:48:43
Speaker
But if you have that video being saved or some clips going on, then you're probably going to get in trouble.
00:48:49
Speaker
YouTube, you can upload stuff, but you probably can't monetize the video.
00:48:53
Speaker
Or if it's depending on what the copyright infringement is, you'll get a strike and or your video will just be blocked in all countries.
00:49:02
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:04
Speaker
So it's, you know, we're, we're living in the wild west right now with all these like,
00:49:09
Speaker
old laws trying to dictate what new stuff's going on.
00:49:12
Speaker
And in my mind, they have these smart bots that can, um, recognize what you're playing, how long you're playing it, when you started playing it, who it's by, who the record label is.
00:49:24
Speaker
And instead of using those bots to like shut down the person that's playing the music, use those bots to figure out how to get the artists paid, you know, like, yeah,
00:49:33
Speaker
Uh, they're, they're just using them right now to be jerks and something needs to be figured out.
00:49:39
Speaker
The technology is there to, uh, make this a positive thing.
00:49:43
Speaker
It's just not being used that way right now.
00:49:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
It's the easiest thing to shut the, shut it down as opposed to finding a way of utilizing the demand for it.
00:49:54
Speaker
And that's typically how most lawyers work is they just shut things down if they don't immediately know how to monetize it.
00:50:00
Speaker
And the bottom line is lawyers, their job is not in PR.
00:50:04
Speaker
It's actually in litigation.
00:50:06
Speaker
And so that's the hammer they reach for, as opposed to a promoter who will say, let's figure out a way of increasing the exposure.
00:50:16
Speaker
It's it is an interesting conundrum where.
00:50:19
Speaker
it will lead you to only stream games up to a certain time.
00:50:24
Speaker
Like there will be a time where you're just completely shut off that you can't do anything modern because they'll just shut you down.
00:50:32
Speaker
So I mean, stars is great, but I'm not sure I want to watch a three hour stream on it.
00:50:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and there's the the biggest laughable thing right now is like these streamers that have been on Twitch for like 10 years and they're huge and they get tens of thousands of people watching them.
00:50:49
Speaker
They're also like tweeting like I'm I'm choked up a little bit that I have to delete 10 years of content because DMCA is going to come take my channel away.
00:50:59
Speaker
You know, and it's it's rough, man.
00:51:01
Speaker
Like I had someone tweet at me today.
00:51:04
Speaker
They're like, hey, dude, like I see you haven't been live in some time.
00:51:10
Speaker
Are you coming back?
00:51:10
Speaker
And I'm like, no, I've been live every day.
00:51:11
Speaker
It's just I don't have VODs for you to go back and watch.
00:51:14
Speaker
So it's rough out here right now.
00:51:17
Speaker
It's really rough too because there's a lot of – I mean I go back and watch those occasionally.
00:51:22
Speaker
When I bought Jurassic Park Pro, I was looking for tips on how to play the game and blow it up.
00:51:28
Speaker
And it's hard because that stuff doesn't exist anymore.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yep.
00:51:34
Speaker
So right now I need to start recording all of my broadcasts local and thumbing through them and then upload them to YouTube.
00:51:42
Speaker
It's a whole extra job that I don't want to have to deal with just because, you know,
00:51:49
Speaker
I don't know.
00:51:50
Speaker
It's frustrating.
00:51:52
Speaker
What I don't understand is it is in the best interest of the video game manufacturers, the pinball, like any of these people who are having all these all these streamers stream their content.
00:52:06
Speaker
I have three young kids and they come to me all the time.
00:52:10
Speaker
Hey, Dad, download this game.
00:52:13
Speaker
What what is it about?
00:52:14
Speaker
And this is how I found out about Among Us, because my kids, they saw someone playing that and they all immediately downloaded it on their content.
00:52:24
Speaker
So this is a way for the content manufacturers to, it's free advertising.
00:52:31
Speaker
And I don't understand why they are not invested in finding a way of actually distributing this.
00:52:38
Speaker
Hey, who cares if there's a spokesman that's getting something back for it, as long as they can figure out how to sell more product.
00:52:45
Speaker
I mean, isn't that what a model is?
00:52:47
Speaker
You're paying a person to display a product because
00:52:51
Speaker
you're going to sell more of that product.
00:52:54
Speaker
The streamers, it's exactly the same thing.
00:52:56
Speaker
Like you may not be directly paying the person, but if you figure out a way to monetize it, then you're still going to get more revenue because they're going to buy more of your product or get more exposure.
00:53:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree.
00:53:12
Speaker
There's so many influential streamers and big names out there that are having an issue with this that these platforms are going to have no choice but to figure this out.
00:53:22
Speaker
So I know it's going to get solved.
00:53:24
Speaker
It's just not happening soon enough.
00:53:25
Speaker
Well, and I know a couple of artists and whatnot, and the whole music war happened back in the 90s, they felt like, you know, yeah.
00:53:34
Speaker
They've had to recreate how to make money, and it's not just about their music anymore.
00:53:38
Speaker
That's why we're investing so much money.
00:53:40
Speaker
Well, not this year, but money was being invested in these concerts and these big shows, and it's because they figured out that's where the money is at now.
00:53:49
Speaker
And so it almost feels like they're shutting everything down for something that hasn't been an issue since, what, 2000s?
00:53:58
Speaker
Early 2000s?
00:53:59
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:54:00
Speaker
Well, no, that's not necessarily true.
00:54:02
Speaker
These artists, they have basically reverted to giving their music away for free for exposure because –
00:54:11
Speaker
Napster basically killed the ability to monetize selling your music.
00:54:17
Speaker
And I've actually been able to I have a few CDs.
00:54:22
Speaker
I'm really waiting for the eight track option from when I bought a concert ticket.
00:54:26
Speaker
And they said, hey, this comes with a free CD.
00:54:29
Speaker
And so you can download it like they'll send it to you.
00:54:32
Speaker
And I I kind of laughed a little bit because
00:54:35
Speaker
And you know what?
00:54:36
Speaker
You could just go on Amazon, my music subscription service, and I can get the album now.
00:54:41
Speaker
But they're just, you know, hey, here's the album.
00:54:44
Speaker
We're going to make money on our shows, but we've kind of given up on trying to monetize.
00:54:49
Speaker
So I do understand this the Metallica argument.
00:54:52
Speaker
If you remember Metallica in the 90s, where they went after Napster because Napster was not punishing these people for sharing their content.
00:55:00
Speaker
Right.
00:55:01
Speaker
But so I understand where the artists are coming from.
00:55:05
Speaker
but they've learned to work with it because the more their music is out there, the more they can actually get people to come to their shows and they're charging way more than they ever used to for a concert ticket because there is a demand out there.
00:55:20
Speaker
And the, the, not in this lifetime tour, when it came through town, I saw the ticket price and even for an average to below average seat, it was like 250 bucks.
00:55:31
Speaker
Yeah, baby.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:32
Speaker
So that there's a reason why it's a very lucrative concert.
00:55:37
Speaker
Now, I also understand that you can command that if you're Slash and Axl.
00:55:41
Speaker
But if you're Joe Butts down the street, who's just an indie artist, it's kind of hard.
00:55:49
Speaker
He goes by flippers.
00:55:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:55:54
Speaker
But no, it's a good point.
00:55:55
Speaker
I mean, that's why we're even starting to see vinyl come back, right?
00:55:57
Speaker
You can get a vinyl subscription and based off your playlists off of Spotify or Pandora, they'll send you three records or whatever it is each month for a price.
00:56:08
Speaker
Oh man, this is Columbia House coming back.
00:56:11
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:56:13
Speaker
I'm pretty sure I owe Columbia House like nine million dollars in my interest.
00:56:19
Speaker
No, I actually I paid for everything, but there were about like 20 people that lived in my apartment whose name was like some variation of Scott Larson.
00:56:29
Speaker
Because that's how you do it, right?
00:56:31
Speaker
You would sign up your friend and you would get four extra CDs and then you get seven CDs, but you had to buy two of them.
00:56:39
Speaker
So I still actually sit next to my CD collection.
00:56:43
Speaker
It's in the corner.
00:56:45
Speaker
But yeah.
00:56:46
Speaker
that was how to do it.
00:56:48
Speaker
I think I, I think I bought like, it was like four CDs for a penny each or something.
00:56:54
Speaker
And then you had to like do something after that.
00:56:56
Speaker
And then I just vanished.
00:56:57
Speaker
Like I don't want any part of what's going on here.
00:57:00
Speaker
They're going to come after you.
00:57:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:02
Speaker
Come, come find Jack danger.
00:57:05
Speaker
Well, OK, I mean, that's actually that is a completely relevant question because I think people were wondering, hey, you have the video capture card.
00:57:11
Speaker
What's the issue?
00:57:12
Speaker
And the issue is not the card at all.
00:57:14
Speaker
The issue is the licensing that allows you to broadcast what the card is doing.
00:57:19
Speaker
And so the card works.
00:57:20
Speaker
It's just figuring out ways of saying, hey, this is what's going on, because
00:57:26
Speaker
That's that's a challenge.
00:57:27
Speaker
If you get the Avengers may have original stuff and you may be able to stream the Avengers.
00:57:34
Speaker
But what about the Guns N' Roses not in this lifetime game?
00:57:38
Speaker
Like, are you going to be able to stream any of that?
00:57:41
Speaker
And I guarantee Slash wants that out there streamed.
00:57:45
Speaker
But the Guns N' Roses lawyers are notoriously aggressive about shutting people down on YouTube for playing their content.
00:57:56
Speaker
It's just like that story with Eric.
00:57:57
Speaker
Eric was having a rough time getting live or let die into the GNR pinball machine because it's a Paul McCartney song.
00:58:05
Speaker
And he fought it and fought it.
00:58:07
Speaker
And Slash is like, oh, I'll just get that taken care of.
00:58:09
Speaker
And 15 minutes later, they've got Paul McCartney on the phone.
00:58:13
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, it's yours.
00:58:14
Speaker
You know what took them weeks to get the licensing and we're still getting shut down.
00:58:19
Speaker
It took slash 15 minutes.
00:58:21
Speaker
So I'm surprised Derek just didn't text Paul.
00:58:23
Speaker
I mean, I have his number.
00:58:25
Speaker
Of course.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah, we've all got Pauly's number, dude.
00:58:27
Speaker
Just give him a ring.
00:58:29
Speaker
He and Ringo and I just hang out all the time.
00:58:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:33
Speaker
Streaming games like Beatles now is, um, that's gonna, that's a, that's a hard yikes for me right now.
00:58:39
Speaker
There's no way.
00:58:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
Which again is just so crazy that the, uh, I guess I understand it to a point, but it really is a manipulation of what the original intent of the law is.
00:58:53
Speaker
I mean, there's so many, you could look at it so many different ways to like, um,
00:58:59
Speaker
the license I'm sure for a pinball machine is so like you can have it in the game.
00:59:03
Speaker
Uh, but obviously you couldn't put that music into a loudspeaker and share it out to the, like an entire bar because you need a license to broadcast music like that.
00:59:16
Speaker
But if the game's loud enough and someone at the bar can hear you, then you kind of are broadcasting in a way.
00:59:22
Speaker
So it's, um, yeah, I don't know.
00:59:25
Speaker
It's wild times we live in right now.
00:59:27
Speaker
Pretty goofy.
00:59:28
Speaker
Okay, so let's talk about that.
00:59:30
Speaker
That's another thing we want to talk about.
00:59:31
Speaker
In the short time you've been in the hobby, how has it changed from then until now?
00:59:38
Speaker
Oh, the hobby.
00:59:39
Speaker
I'd say because there's more content creators building up all around us in pinball, I think it's helping get it out more to the public.
00:59:52
Speaker
When I first got in, pinball still felt very like...
00:59:55
Speaker
in internal, like we were still sort of like a club, but pinball now I feel is humongous.
01:00:02
Speaker
Humongous is a relative term, obviously, but it's a lot bigger than it was.
01:00:08
Speaker
The shows are way larger than they used to be.
01:00:12
Speaker
I remember going to MGC like six or seven years ago and you're in this hotel shirtless drunk with a bunch of other dudes in a hallway.
01:00:23
Speaker
So, yeah, I think the hobby has gotten larger and there's more voices now.
01:00:29
Speaker
Some good, some bad, but all of it's getting the content out there so that we can try to attract more people.
01:00:35
Speaker
And I only see this thing growing and growing.
01:00:38
Speaker
But again, yeah, it felt very small and still pretty niche back when I first got into this.
01:00:45
Speaker
Do you think that some of the themes and stuff have helped out, too?
01:00:47
Speaker
Or do you think it's just kind of a collection of everything at this point?
01:00:53
Speaker
Um, when, so I think themes definitely help new people get into the hobby, but I think it's more, um, gosh, when I look at when a lot of people got into pinball, like if you ask a lot of people that are like sort of
01:01:10
Speaker
faces in this hobby.
01:01:12
Speaker
They'll say they got into pinball like six or seven years ago.
01:01:15
Speaker
Like a lot of people will say that they're like, yeah, I played like virtual pinball and then, Oh, I found real pinball machines.
01:01:20
Speaker
Oh, you could buy pinball machines.
01:01:21
Speaker
There was just something that clicked at the right time back then that got all these people in there.
01:01:28
Speaker
And I don't think theme mattered so much to these folks that were like discovering real pinball.
01:01:33
Speaker
It was just the fact that there was real pinball machines you could play based on like this video game you were playing.
01:01:40
Speaker
But now that we have things like Avengers or Star Wars, we get to take these things to Comic-Con where these fans are and they get to go, man, I really love Deadpool.
01:01:51
Speaker
Oh, what's this giant box of lights that I can go look at that has Deadpool all over it?
01:01:56
Speaker
And you get to.
01:01:58
Speaker
interact with your favorite IP or whatever.
01:02:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a whole calculation of a bunch of different things that are going on right now, but all of it seems to be working.
01:02:09
Speaker
Awesome.
01:02:12
Speaker
You know, I actually did find, I was going to bring this back up when you talked about hitting the left ramp.
01:02:17
Speaker
So we were talking with a group of people about Avengers and some people were talking about their rejection on the Captain Marvel shot.
01:02:26
Speaker
And I have seen some of that on my game, but not nearly the amount that some people were talking about it.
01:02:33
Speaker
But I also feel that these people are better pinball players than me.
01:02:38
Speaker
I guess I'll put it that way.
01:02:40
Speaker
And I think that they have the game jacked up too much.
01:02:44
Speaker
I think I think they have the pitch to pitch too high.
01:02:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:48
Speaker
So I actually feel like my game plays better at closer to what the recommended settings are.
01:02:55
Speaker
And with turtles, I actually just lowered the pitch on my turtles a little bit because that the reason why I was asking about the left ramp versus that center ramp from the upper flipper, that center ramp was impossible for me to hit.
01:03:08
Speaker
I lowered it just a little bit and I can hit it now.
01:03:12
Speaker
And so I think that it really, you need to pay a lot more attention on the pitch of the game to see what is the recommended thing.
01:03:22
Speaker
I actually emailed Dwight about it.
01:03:24
Speaker
I said, hey, what do you do to dial in the game?
01:03:28
Speaker
And Dwight said, you know, actually, I don't do much to dial it in because I just make sure it's set up, make sure it's level, make sure it's six and a half.
01:03:35
Speaker
And it clicked in the back of my mind that, oh, maybe my game's too steep.
01:03:40
Speaker
Maybe that's the reason why some of these shots are nearly impossible, because the velocity of the ball is different than how they designed it.
01:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think that was a big problem with people with Deadpool also.
01:03:51
Speaker
It was like they were shooting that shot and it wasn't going up the ramp.
01:03:53
Speaker
They're like, what the heck's going on?
01:03:55
Speaker
Well, you got to pay attention to where your pitch is.
01:03:58
Speaker
Pitch was something I never even bothered to think about and kind of still don't.
01:04:04
Speaker
I like my back legs all the way up and I like my front legs all the way down.
01:04:08
Speaker
And I'll play a game and if something's not feeling right, I'll slowly come down in the back.
01:04:12
Speaker
But I've never in the history of pinball pulled out something that could tell me
01:04:16
Speaker
that my pitch is at 6.5.
01:04:17
Speaker
I just, I play by feel and just make it go from there.
01:04:23
Speaker
I even have a hard time trying to find something that will tell me pitch from left to right.
01:04:27
Speaker
You know, I got up the Jurassic park and, and I had a level out and was testing all that stuff.
01:04:32
Speaker
And I'm like,
01:04:33
Speaker
My level says I'm my left side needs to come up.
01:04:36
Speaker
And so I did.
01:04:36
Speaker
And all of a sudden my ball is just floating to the right.
01:04:39
Speaker
I'm like, this makes no sense, you know?
01:04:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:43
Speaker
So there is an app on your phone.
01:04:45
Speaker
I'll just shout it out to the audience.
01:04:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:48
Speaker
So you take off the glass, you lay it on your play field and,
01:04:53
Speaker
And you can even turn on the sound and it will say, hey, raise right back.
01:04:59
Speaker
And so it actually helps you level it side to side and up and down.
01:05:03
Speaker
And then after you do that, you put the glass on and you say, learn glass.
01:05:07
Speaker
And after that, because, you know, if you're banging the machine around, it'll change a little bit.
01:05:12
Speaker
And so you can actually just throw your phone on there and say, this is the machine and it'll tell you how it's supposed to be and how to fix it.
01:05:20
Speaker
So totally make sure your phone is not in its case.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yes.
01:05:25
Speaker
No.
01:05:25
Speaker
Well, my, also, if you're one of those, I have like a pop socket on the back of my phone.
01:05:29
Speaker
So I got to like, that's why I don't use it.
01:05:32
Speaker
I'm like, I don't want to go through this to pull my damn phone out.
01:05:34
Speaker
Cause I move a pinball machine every single day into place.
01:05:39
Speaker
under my rig, just so I have the same background.
01:05:43
Speaker
So every day at like 4.30, I'm getting a cart, I'm lifting up a pinball machine, I'm moving it over, dropping it down, pushing it in there, make sure it's left or right good.
01:05:53
Speaker
And I'm adjusting that thing on the fly as I'm streaming.
01:05:56
Speaker
I'm like, well, it looks like it's leaning left, so I'll just get under the game and adjust it.
01:06:00
Speaker
But I don't mess with the...
01:06:02
Speaker
taking my phone out of that case I got.
01:06:05
Speaker
Yeah, but it is an option though.
01:06:07
Speaker
So you don't have to pull it because otherwise you would have to have at least two people to pull out the old, uh, old, uh, Bob, the builder, uh, level.
01:06:16
Speaker
True.
01:06:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:19
Speaker
Pin guy app fully endorsed that.
01:06:21
Speaker
It's amazing.
01:06:22
Speaker
It really is super good.
01:06:23
Speaker
Pin guy app.
01:06:24
Speaker
All right.
01:06:24
Speaker
I'll write that down.
01:06:26
Speaker
I don't know if I've even seen that.
01:06:28
Speaker
Is that even on like the Google store or anything like that?
01:06:31
Speaker
I don't know.
01:06:31
Speaker
I have Apple.
01:06:32
Speaker
I apparently I'm that guy who just doesn't know how to figure out Android.
01:06:37
Speaker
All the Android fanboys, they're like, you still use Apple.
01:06:40
Speaker
I cannot believe how stupid you are.
01:06:41
Speaker
Yeah, I'm I'm an iPhone kid, too.
01:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, I just I just don't have the time to figure out how to do all the other stuff, nor do I really care.
01:06:50
Speaker
That's the bottom line.
01:06:51
Speaker
I don't really care.
01:06:52
Speaker
I mean, I still do animation from time to time, and my whole setup at home and at work is mostly Apple products.
01:06:59
Speaker
So having that interconnectivity between my phone and everything else, like if I get a text on my phone and I had left it at home, I can still do everything I need to here on my computer with it.
01:07:09
Speaker
I can text.
01:07:10
Speaker
I can do all that crap.
01:07:11
Speaker
Wait, you left your phone somewhere?
01:07:12
Speaker
Can you do that nowadays?
01:07:15
Speaker
I mean, it is what it is.
01:07:18
Speaker
I got two small kids.
01:07:19
Speaker
They like to take that thing and shove it.
01:07:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:22
Speaker
wherever i can't reach no all they want to do is seriously i'm not kidding at seven o'clock i can count on it my kids come and it's like hey dad um can you unlock your phone that's it no it's not hey dad i love you it's like hey uh can you unlock this because i want no like no you have you actually have to get your school clothes on first and they come in like 702 okay i'm ready can you unlock your phone
01:07:44
Speaker
You're lucky it's an older phone because my kid just holds it up to my face and then walks away.
01:07:48
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:49
Speaker
That's probably where it's going.
01:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:07:52
Speaker
That's crazy.
01:07:53
Speaker
Dad, look at this.
01:07:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:55
Speaker
Oh, man.
01:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's yeah, I just I haven't figured out how to.
01:08:01
Speaker
Well, OK, our problem, too, when you buy a Windows product and I know Windows is a good operating system, all that, but it comes with so many craplets on there that are pre-installed that all this junk I don't need.
01:08:14
Speaker
And then it just feels like after two years, you can barely use the machine because it's so bogged down.
01:08:20
Speaker
And I basically got tired of that.
01:08:22
Speaker
That was why that was when I gave up on using Windows products was having those type of problems.
01:08:29
Speaker
So.
01:08:31
Speaker
I feel you.
01:08:31
Speaker
Dude, McAfee, it's a virus itself.
01:08:34
Speaker
Yes.
01:08:36
Speaker
Totally not kidding.
01:08:36
Speaker
I was at work today and I was trying to leave.
01:08:38
Speaker
I'd been up all night and I, so it's a Windows based system there and I couldn't open the program to chart on a patient.
01:08:48
Speaker
And I had a call in and when I hit open, it said, I'm not kidding.
01:08:53
Speaker
It said, McAfee has detected that this program may not be approved.
01:08:57
Speaker
I'm like, it's your program.
01:08:59
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
01:09:00
Speaker
Yep.
01:09:01
Speaker
I've had two hours of sleep.
01:09:02
Speaker
Let me go home.
01:09:05
Speaker
It's the DMCA of Windows products.
01:09:09
Speaker
It's the worst.
01:09:12
Speaker
You talked about turning this into a job, but you kind of grazed over a little bit.
01:09:17
Speaker
Why don't you tell us a little more about that?
01:09:19
Speaker
So turning a hobby into a job is people say, if you do what you love as work, you know, you'll never work a day in your life.
01:09:29
Speaker
And I agree to that sentiment a lot.
01:09:32
Speaker
But there are days where I come in and I'm surrounded by pinball machines.
01:09:37
Speaker
And the last thing I want to do is play pinball because I know...
01:09:41
Speaker
that I'm going to be playing for three to four hours that night.
01:09:44
Speaker
And I've been playing three to four hours of pinball Monday through Friday for the past six years.
01:09:50
Speaker
And I love it to death, but there's just some days where you come in, you're like, I just don't know.
01:09:56
Speaker
I'm just going to sit on my computer and watch cat videos until it's time to stream.
01:10:00
Speaker
And then then we'll have a good time.
01:10:03
Speaker
And that's pretty much what Keith said when we talked about him joining Stern is he said, you know, when I'm done with work, I kind of want to do something else.
01:10:11
Speaker
And it's not affecting his love of the machine of the games, but it's still more of how do I spend my valuable non-work time?
01:10:21
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:10:22
Speaker
Burnout is an actual real thing.
01:10:25
Speaker
It super is.
01:10:26
Speaker
And you just got to monitor that closely and go play World of Warcraft mindlessly for a few hours to come back to pinball with some fresh eyes.
01:10:37
Speaker
Do you I know you said that you like Pokemon and whatnot.
01:10:41
Speaker
Do you play Pokemon Go or are you more of like the I've got to play the main series kind of person?
01:10:48
Speaker
I play.
01:10:48
Speaker
So I think everyone played Pokemon Go at some point when when that first dropped.
01:10:53
Speaker
That was like a worldwide phenomenon.
01:10:55
Speaker
I remember being out in the middle of this field, not too far from my house,
01:11:02
Speaker
there's no reason for me to be there ever, period.
01:11:05
Speaker
I probably looked like a lunatic if it wasn't for Pokemon Go because everyone was playing it.
01:11:09
Speaker
But I'm in this field and this like very young lady, she must have been like 12, is like, I'm in the middle of a field and here comes this kid and it must have been like 11, 12 o'clock at night.
01:11:23
Speaker
Or like 11 at night.
01:11:25
Speaker
And I'm holding my phone and I see this kid coming to me.
01:11:27
Speaker
I'm like, what the frick's going on?
01:11:29
Speaker
And this girl's like, are you looking for the frickin Pidgey that's over here?
01:11:34
Speaker
I'm like, yeah.
01:11:35
Speaker
She's like, it's over there by that tree.
01:11:37
Speaker
And I'm like, are you a ghost?
01:11:39
Speaker
Am I going to die?
01:11:41
Speaker
What is happening?
01:11:42
Speaker
I'm like, you shouldn't be out this late.
01:11:44
Speaker
I walked over there.
01:11:44
Speaker
There was the Pokemon I was looking for.
01:11:46
Speaker
It was.
01:11:49
Speaker
Something like that will never happen again.
01:11:50
Speaker
Like I think the world had this weird come together moment because of Pokemon Go.
01:11:57
Speaker
I don't play it too much anymore just because I don't have a whole lot of free time anymore.
01:12:01
Speaker
But yeah, if I'm playing any games right now, it's something that I could just hop in, play really quick, don't care about consequences and jump out.
01:12:10
Speaker
I've been playing like
01:12:12
Speaker
uh, modern warfare.
01:12:13
Speaker
Nice.
01:12:14
Speaker
I suck at video games, but, uh, it'll spend like five minutes loading in the game.
01:12:19
Speaker
Then the second I'm in the game, someone shoots me and then I get frustrated and close it.
01:12:22
Speaker
So that's my video game experience in a nutshell.
01:12:27
Speaker
I tend to play the Pac-Man on the Apple arcade.
01:12:30
Speaker
That's what I do.
01:12:30
Speaker
Oh, there you go.
01:12:31
Speaker
So,
01:12:33
Speaker
I do find it also very entertaining to play the there's no internet connection dinosaur jumping game in Chrome when your internet's down.
01:12:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:42
Speaker
Really?
01:12:42
Speaker
Have you played that?
01:12:43
Speaker
No.
01:12:45
Speaker
So if your internet's ever down, open up a Chrome window and it'll be a dinosaur there.
01:12:48
Speaker
It'd be like, hey, you don't have an internet connection.
01:12:50
Speaker
If you hit the space bar, it turns into a side scrolling game where you're jumping over stuff as that dinosaur.
01:12:55
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
01:12:56
Speaker
And you're like ducking birds and stuff.
01:12:57
Speaker
It's pretty wild.
01:12:58
Speaker
I'm going to disconnect my internet right now.
01:13:00
Speaker
Do it.
01:13:02
Speaker
That sounds like the video mode on a medieval madness with like the, the pitchfork guys, like stabbing the vultures, stealing the, uh, what it is a hundred percent.
01:13:13
Speaker
Or I think there's a doctor who video mode.
01:13:15
Speaker
That's just like that.
01:13:16
Speaker
Wow.
01:13:18
Speaker
Circus Voltaire.
01:13:18
Speaker
I think it's like that as well.
01:13:21
Speaker
Side scrolling.
01:13:22
Speaker
That's all you can do with those long freaking DMDs.
Pinball Industry Insights and Updates
01:13:25
Speaker
When circus, when circus Voltaire is not connected to the internet.
01:13:30
Speaker
Oh, sad.
01:13:33
Speaker
Hey, I'm sure all pinball machines will be on the Internet here soon enough.
01:13:36
Speaker
You know, I still need to update my Wizard of Oz.
01:13:39
Speaker
I'm not kidding.
01:13:39
Speaker
I think it still has the same code on it from four years ago.
01:13:43
Speaker
Whoa.
01:13:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:45
Speaker
Dang.
01:13:45
Speaker
OK.
01:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, I man, I I need to get my hands on a was I haven't played one in ages.
01:13:50
Speaker
I keep trying to get Keith Johnson to put an Easter egg in that game for me.
01:13:53
Speaker
I'm like, dog, I look at the stuff that I did on this game.
01:13:56
Speaker
I want I want something.
01:13:59
Speaker
I mean, Dwight Sullivan gave me Easter eggs in all the games that he's produced in like the last however many years.
01:14:05
Speaker
Yeah, he gave us an Easter egg in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
01:14:09
Speaker
Oh, heck yeah.
01:14:10
Speaker
The old flipper code.
01:14:11
Speaker
Heck yes.
01:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, bud.
01:14:14
Speaker
LKP, if you want to check it out.
01:14:17
Speaker
Really?
01:14:18
Speaker
Huh.
01:14:19
Speaker
Huh.
01:14:19
Speaker
You get to play a shredder and you're supposed to be attacking the turtles.
01:14:25
Speaker
Wait.
01:14:25
Speaker
It's a wizard mode.
01:14:28
Speaker
Oh, I wish.
01:14:29
Speaker
I remember asking before Dwight was putting Easter eggs in, I was bugging them and bugging them and he put it in Ghostbusters for me first and then later went back and put it in GOT, if I'm not mistaken.
01:14:41
Speaker
But I really wanted an Easter egg or a flipper code that gave me a free credit.
01:14:46
Speaker
And he's like, if that ever got out.
01:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, no, no, no, no.
01:14:51
Speaker
Yeah, you're right.
01:14:53
Speaker
I just want to play the villain in the games like an X-Men.
01:14:56
Speaker
I want to play as Magneto in The Walking Dead.
01:14:59
Speaker
I want to play as the zombie.
01:15:01
Speaker
You know, I want to play a shredder.
01:15:02
Speaker
I want to play as the dinosaur in Jurassic Park.
01:15:04
Speaker
And I want to play as Thanos.
01:15:06
Speaker
That's pretty much what I want to do.
01:15:08
Speaker
All right, Stern, you heard it.
01:15:09
Speaker
Get on it.
01:15:10
Speaker
We need alternate code versions.
01:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, just kind of work that in, just in your spare time.
01:15:14
Speaker
And when you're making your 5,000 games on backorder.
01:15:19
Speaker
Yep.
01:15:19
Speaker
Man, that right there is a testament to the popularity of pinball right now, is how backordered Stern is right now.
01:15:27
Speaker
It is crazy backordered.
01:15:28
Speaker
Like, yeah, we're like in February, March, somewhere around there.
01:15:34
Speaker
And it didn't, wasn't it, was it on the virtual tour?
01:15:37
Speaker
I can't remember what was said, but they said that like 5,000 units behind or something like that.
01:15:41
Speaker
It's crazy.
01:15:44
Speaker
Yeah, that is, it's a pretty astronomical number because 5,000 pinball machines is a lot of pecking pinball machines.
01:15:52
Speaker
How much can they make a day?
01:15:54
Speaker
That you know what?
01:15:56
Speaker
I've I've even given tours and stuff.
01:15:58
Speaker
I don't retain that information.
01:16:01
Speaker
More than five, less than a thousand a day.
01:16:05
Speaker
I don't, I have no idea.
01:16:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:08
Speaker
50, a hundred.
01:16:09
Speaker
I really don't know.
01:16:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:11
Speaker
Well, it makes sense.
01:16:12
Speaker
If let's just, let's just throw out a number, let's say 50 games.
01:16:16
Speaker
And so that would be, you know, take 20 days to do a thousand.
01:16:20
Speaker
And so that would basically be about a hundred days, which sounds about like putting us to August or to March.
01:16:27
Speaker
So that sounds probably about right.
01:16:29
Speaker
Man, that's wild.
01:16:31
Speaker
Heck yeah.
01:16:32
Speaker
All the pinball.
01:16:33
Speaker
Meanwhile, they keep coming out with new games.
01:16:34
Speaker
So they have to like work that back order in around all the new titles that come out.
01:16:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:41
Speaker
You know, can I get a hallelujah for all the great pinball machines that are coming out?
01:16:44
Speaker
I think about the two thousands and it was basically a turd factory for most of the decade, except for like four games.
01:16:53
Speaker
And now we have four games a year.
01:16:55
Speaker
that are solid and amazing.
01:16:57
Speaker
And you basically have to start looking around your collection saying, okay, what am I going to sell to get the new game?
01:17:02
Speaker
That's true.
01:17:03
Speaker
It's wild that Stern has their four cornerstones, but then they're also like, yeah, we'll do contract games with people.
01:17:10
Speaker
We'll do studio games.
01:17:11
Speaker
You know, we'll sneak an Elvira or a Batman in there somewhere on top of all the other games we're already
Encouragement for Pinball Enthusiasts
01:17:17
Speaker
making.
01:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's crazy.
01:17:20
Speaker
Yeah, very much.
01:17:22
Speaker
Well, we're coming up on the hour and a half.
01:17:23
Speaker
I sadly, I've got to start getting, I got to wrap this up so I can get my butt back to work.
01:17:28
Speaker
But you got to wrap this up because you're going to be streaming for three hours.
01:17:33
Speaker
Oh,
01:17:37
Speaker
Josh is quitting his job.
01:17:39
Speaker
So he's good.
01:17:40
Speaker
Quit your job, become a full-time streamer and, uh, you know, then go get your job back.
01:17:47
Speaker
That sounds like a good, what two year plan.
01:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, but that was, I mean, my wife let me try that, but thankfully I had a very successful animation business that built up a little Easter egg or not Easter egg nest egg.
01:18:01
Speaker
Uh, I could lean on a little bit to try to make it work.
01:18:05
Speaker
Um,
01:18:06
Speaker
it also helped that we sort of like were one of the first ones to do this.
01:18:10
Speaker
So yeah.
01:18:13
Speaker
Pinball Internet, stream it, do it.
01:18:15
Speaker
We need we need that category on Twitch to be just booming at all times.
01:18:20
Speaker
Well, if you want to stream, too, and you don't know where to start, go to DeadFlip's web page.
01:18:24
Speaker
And he's got a whole section there to tell you what you want, you know, from beginning people to expert people and what equipment you need and whatnot.
01:18:34
Speaker
It's pretty straightforward.
01:18:35
Speaker
So it's pretty awesome.
01:18:37
Speaker
yeah it i created that because i was sort of getting tired of answering that question on stream all the time i was like what cameras you use what microphones what do you do blah blah blah and i even gave like at at the bottom you could see uh different ways that you set it up and financially like if you don't have a lot of cash here's how you can do it with literally one camera uh and yeah so yeah go check it out all right jack if they want to get a hold of you how can they get a hold of you
01:19:03
Speaker
Just type in dead flip into the Googles.
01:19:06
Speaker
I'm literally dead flip on all social media.
01:19:08
Speaker
So you'll, you'll find me somewhere.
01:19:10
Speaker
Please say hi.
01:19:11
Speaker
All right.
01:19:12
Speaker
And if they want to watch your stream, how can they get it?
01:19:15
Speaker
Don't do it.
01:19:16
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:16
Speaker
Don't.
01:19:19
Speaker
Go to twitch.tv forward slash dead flip, hit that follow button and I'll try to make out with you later.
01:19:26
Speaker
Wow.
01:19:27
Speaker
Interesting.
01:19:28
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:29
Speaker
Well, we're certainly going to send you a hat and some swag for your time.
01:19:33
Speaker
And so maybe we'll see one of our hats show up on the dead flip stream in the future.
01:19:38
Speaker
I have, I have your hat here somewhere.
01:19:40
Speaker
Whoa.
01:19:42
Speaker
I've worn it.
01:19:43
Speaker
I've worn it plenty of times, but.
01:19:45
Speaker
I think it's now buried under a bunch of pinball parts around here somewhere.
01:19:48
Speaker
I'll have to see where that is.
01:19:50
Speaker
So it's been a while.
01:19:52
Speaker
It's been a minute.
01:19:53
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:53
Speaker
Do you have a beanie?
01:19:54
Speaker
We'll get you a beanie this time.
01:19:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:56
Speaker
Hook me up with a beanie.
01:19:57
Speaker
All right.
01:19:58
Speaker
Sounds good.
01:19:58
Speaker
We'll get you taken care of.
01:20:00
Speaker
Rock and roll.
01:20:01
Speaker
Well, you remember when I tried to send you the hat and the hassle that was because of the PO box and all that crap.
01:20:07
Speaker
Yep.
01:20:08
Speaker
And nothing's ever easy.
01:20:10
Speaker
Ever.
01:20:11
Speaker
Ever.
01:20:11
Speaker
Roll it up into some Pez dispenser tube or something.
01:20:15
Speaker
You just can't, unless you're using the post office, you can't send stuff to a PO box.
01:20:20
Speaker
Really?
01:20:23
Speaker
I think Amazon's an exception, but if you're like, I'm going to use UPS to send this cool thing to Jackson.
01:20:29
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:20:29
Speaker
UPS thing.
01:20:30
Speaker
Heck no.
01:20:32
Speaker
Oh, that's great.
01:20:32
Speaker
All right.
Contact and Collaboration Information
01:20:34
Speaker
Well, if you want to find us, we are loser kid pinball podcast.
01:20:36
Speaker
We are at Gmail.
01:20:37
Speaker
It's literally just loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:20:40
Speaker
If you want to find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, we're at loser kid pinball.
01:20:45
Speaker
We kind of truncated it to make it a little easier for everyone.
01:20:49
Speaker
Honestly, the easiest way to get ahold of us is through Facebook.
01:20:52
Speaker
Scott and I are both on there.
01:20:53
Speaker
So if you want to hit us up, don't be afraid to send us a message or just to leave a comment.
01:20:58
Speaker
Guys, thanks so much for having me.
01:21:00
Speaker
For sure.
01:21:00
Speaker
And you know what?
01:21:01
Speaker
Best wishes on that next Twippy.
01:21:03
Speaker
We know that you need some more gear for your homebrews you're going to be doing.
01:21:08
Speaker
Listen, we got a lot of really, really cool stuff planned coming out.
01:21:13
Speaker
So just freaking wait.
01:21:15
Speaker
Awesome.
01:21:16
Speaker
Come on.
01:21:16
Speaker
You can't just leave it like that.
01:21:17
Speaker
Give us a little something.
01:21:19
Speaker
A little something.
01:21:21
Speaker
Um, okay.
01:21:22
Speaker
The, so one of the things we're working on with George Gomez is essentially him and I are going to walk you through how to build a pinball machine the way George Gomez would build a pinball machine from idea to essentially completion.
01:21:34
Speaker
Love it.
01:21:37
Speaker
So you're going to see how he likes to approach a layout, uh, how he likes to approach ramps, how he likes to approach whatever.
01:21:43
Speaker
And just going to be little piecemeal things here and there.
01:21:45
Speaker
And then you could take that information and run with it.
01:21:47
Speaker
Awesome.
01:21:47
Speaker
Just in his spare time when he's not directing his turn.
01:21:50
Speaker
I'll tell you what we, yeah, it's, it's definitely a dance trying to make anything happen.
01:21:59
Speaker
That's not the main focus of like building the pinballs.
01:22:04
Speaker
Um, but we're, we're going to make it happen.
01:22:06
Speaker
Awesome.
01:22:06
Speaker
Love it.
01:22:07
Speaker
I think that's a great note to end it on.
01:22:08
Speaker
So, uh, thanks again, Jack.
01:22:10
Speaker
We appreciate you coming on.
01:22:11
Speaker
My pleasure.
01:22:12
Speaker
My pleasure.
01:22:34
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.