Transcript
Speaker: We said on our preview podcast, I closed it out with this. I tried to be poetic. I said that Argentina would either win with glory or they would die with glory and admit over 120 minutes plus penalties. They tried their damnedest to do both. That is accurate. They really, really did. That game had to be won three times for Argentina and it put
Speaker: the entire world through the ringer. What a crazy, crazy match. It put the entire world through the ringer, and then it put Argentinians through the ringer times like seven. They had to win it three times. They lost the match twice, essentially, and still somehow through it all, which we're gonna get into, they won the World Cup.
Speaker: in the weirdest, wackiest, wildest, most 2022 Argentina way possible. They did. It's almost unbelievable, because let's take some credit. At the very first podcast here, we picked Argentina to win. We did. Yeah, that's how we saw it going, just like that.
Speaker: All you can do is laugh. All you can do is laugh. After this game ended and the, the general emotion, like the initial emotions subsided, that was the reaction was just like, that was stupid. How do you go back to normal life? Brentford and South Hampton are going to play in eight days and you're supposed to think that it matters after what you just witnessed. No, that's it's, it's, it's insane. I don't, like, I don't know how we're supposed to do what we do here.
Speaker: Like, what do you do to make sense of what we saw? And we build it, right, as the biggest match of the century of maybe one of the biggest World Cup matches ever, and somehow it more than delivered. What? It over -delivered. Yeah, how does that happen? And it over -delivered. This is the World Cup After Dark podcast. He is a bit malley. I am Austin Miller.
Speaker: I'm going to warn the listeners right now. This podcast is going to go on for a very long time. Grab a snack, get comfortable, break it up into two.
Speaker: Hopefully your commute is a bit longer. If you're commuting in Buenos Aires tomorrow morning, it's probably going to be a bit longer. So it'll hopefully work for you. Because we have so much to talk about. We have to talk about the game itself, which provides so many different topics of discussion. We have to try and tackle this from a big picture perspective. There's so much going on here, Amit. And I don't even really know where to start. So here's what we're going to try to do.
Speaker: We're going to go through the moments that mattered in this game and then we're going to try to put it into some sort of perspective which will probably just be us repeating over and over again. That is a thing that happened and just sending ourselves into oblivion with stuff.
Speaker: You come to us for this type of game. This is when we are in our element. When a game just consistently delivers weirdness, wackiness, wildness, that is the after dark. That is as a myth alluded to on our last podcast, the 3%. Argentina was a 53 % favorite in the 538 numbers. And today of it, we saw what the 3 % is.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a lot of different things. I don't know what was what, which percent was what, but at 3 % right there, that's how that mattered. I think it's super interesting because we said on the last show that this is an even world cup between two teams that are generally evenly matched. And in a match like this, it comes down to moments. It did come down to moments, Amit.
Speaker: It's just there were about 17 of them in this game. This game delivered so many moments, so many more moments than a great final than a usual one -off final to decide a major tournament does. Yeah, it's usually a 1 -0, a 1 -1. Okay, France -Croatia had a lot, but...
Speaker: The final was decided, really, when France were up two goals. Argentina went up two goals, and there were two moments that made it. And then somehow, when France, the second France got back in this game, things just careened off the rails. And from there on, the last 20 minutes of regulation, plus all of extra time, plus the penalty shootout, they stuffed a tournament's worth of moments into one final. It was stupid, yeah.
Speaker: So let's break down this game right now. And I think the best way for us to try to tackle this is to break this game down into three kind of segments. I think that is generally where we can try to attack this game.
Speaker: The first segment of this game is the first kind of two -thirds of it. The entirety of the first half and the first half of the second half, which as we'll get to in a second, saw Argentina go two up, saw Argentina play their best football of this tournament, and saw them completely play France off the pitch, have a two -goal lead, and very nearly seal the World Cup.
Speaker: From then, we'll tackle the middle part that saw France get back in a span of 90 seconds. And then from there, we'll tackle everything that happened after that and we'll build up into the penalty shootout. So let's start a minute with the start of this match, which for 66 minutes was an Argentine coronation.
Speaker: Leano Scolone got his tactics right. He surprised us all and started Angel Di Maria in a front three for Argentina. We did not think that that was what would happen. It happened in Argentina were so, so good. They played France off the pitch for 60 minutes.
Speaker: They did. France did not have a shot on goal until literally like the 70th minute, a shot at all maybe. It was dominance. And for what you said, it was, you know, Argentina need to punish Deschamps' set up and force him to adjust. And he did adjust in the 40th minute. And by then they were 2 -0 down. That's how good this was from Argentina. Like you said, playing the best football of the tournament, it came from their midfield control, right? I think it all started there as we outlined.
Speaker: you had Fernandez, DePaul, and McAllister, and it was 3 verse 3 for France, but Grisemann wasn't tracking back. De Bele was doing nothing on the right wing. Giroux and Mbappe weren't pressing. France tried to press, honestly, they tried to press, and Argentina was just carving through them because France
Speaker: did not have the legs to press. It's very clear that this French team was not built to press and was incapable of pressing in this setup. Mbappe, as we discussed, doesn't have a great defensive work rate. Dembele was abysmal in this game and it ended with him being hauled off even before halftime got there and Olivier Giroud is not a pressing striker.
Speaker: That also got him hauled off after 40 minutes because France were 2 -0 down and they had to do something to get a foothold in this match. That's how good Argentina were. And I think of it, it kind of caught France by surprise because what we've seen from Deschamps is he likes to set his team up. We're going to be cautious. This is going to be cagey. We'll take advantage of spaces. We'll look to use our impressive attack when we can.
Speaker: But this is the World Cup final. Nobody's going to be stupid enough to just open themselves up. But Argentina did that. And they caught France off guard. They attacked them. They battered them. And they turned it into two goals. And they looked so good doing it. They did. And it has to be said, a lot of this goes to Di Maria, whose individual excellence really, he gets the goal and he wins the penalty on the first goal. And he was awesome.
Speaker: Totally. We said, okay, if Argentina can make that left side of the field, France's left side, a problem. Sorry. Excuse me. Argentina's left side, France's right side, a problem for France. This is one of the ways they can win the game. We weren't sure that it was going to be Di Maria. We were like, oh, it's on Taglafico or Acuna and McAllister to go get in that side. This was Di Maria on the left.
Speaker: just hanging out wide, stretching France. And then the midfield were just able to get the ball in transition, get in the middle, get France disorganized, and then let Di Maria get in dangerous situations on the end line. And he cooked. He cooked stem bele on the goal. And it has to be said, Di Maria has been a big game performer his whole career. He didn't play in the 2014 final. Maybe it would have been different. He has a record.
Speaker: of champions league appearances in one of the champions league finals with Real Madrid when like Real Madrid were at their peak with Bale and Benzema and Cristiano Ronaldo. He was the best player in the field in one of those games. He was great in the Copa America. He was great in the final Isma.
Speaker: He was excellent today. Like, Messi was on the field and doing good things, messy things. But Di Maria was the reason why Argentina were brutally efficient in the final third, wins the penalty great. And what it made them was they could hurt France at
Speaker: any part of the pitch. Di Maria being that good on that side meant France were getting thrashed there. Messi being that good on the other side meant France were in trouble there. Alvarez being the pressing machine that he was meant they couldn't just find comfort in the middle. And Alexis McAllister, who was also fantastic today, was winning the ball back in the midfield. There was nowhere for France to go. They had no room to breathe in the opening parts of this match. Di Maria does really well to win the penalty. Penalty for you.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a little soft, but I get it. Once you let someone turn you inside out in the box, you basically need to back off them. Because if you're behind someone and you touch them at all, you're asking the ref to make a tough call. And in that sense, the way the ref refereed the whole match, it's consistent with what he called later. And he was going to call that type of contact in the box.
Speaker: Okay, penalty. And also I think for me, and this shouldn't necessarily play into it, but I think it does, Argentine deserve that penalty. For the way that they had played the impressiveness that they had shown in the first half of that first half, they deserved for that call to break their way, and it did. Messi takes a good penalty, gets them up one nil, and then admit the second Argentine goal. My goodness.
Speaker: Yeah, this is like one of the best sequences of team play of the whole tournament, if not the best, right? It's seven touches in 10 seconds. Messi's involved here. His fingerprints are all over this. This is the Messi's team's types of goals that they score, right? With just how quick it is. And Alvarez's space. And McAllister runs it behind. And then Di Maria runs all the way up. It's just a beautiful goal. And this was Argentina just saying to France, like,
Speaker: You've got nothing for us when we're just literally all over you, every blade of grass, winning the ball, transitioning quickly, making runs. This was Argentina at their best in the whole tournament. And they had built up to this. And this was their team functioning the way that everything about it was supposed to function. It was like after two goals, you were like, oh, wow, this is not supposed to be this easy. This is insane. And it felt like Argentina were totally, totally in control and going
Speaker: walk into a World Cup final win. Great finish from DeMaria on the goal as well. That is a world -class finish, right? There's not a whole lot of space there. Larista as well with clothes to come off his line. He's closing down the angle. You have to be precise with that finish and DeMaria was. So what do France do? They're down 2 -0 and they just are simply trying to find a foothold in this match. They have not come to play. I don't know if it's because they had
Speaker: the Middle Eastern respiratory symptom. I don't know if it's because they underestimated Argentina. I don't know if they got caught off guard by Argentina's approach. I don't know what it was, but they were not in this game for 40 minutes. Didier Deschamps, to his credit, realizing that there's probably going to be a significant number of added time here. I can't wait until halftime because it might be three or four if I wait until halftime. Hauls off in Bele. Hauls off Giroud. Brings on to Ram.
Speaker: and makes his team capable of getting a foothold in this match. He stabilized the ship, but he did it at 2 -0 down. But as we'll see, it was enough for France to hang around enough in this match. Those were crucial changes for them, even if they didn't have the desired effect right away. Exactly. Stabilizing is the right word. I agree with you. If France had not come back from 2 -0 down in such miraculous fashion, I think it would be pretty easy to point to Deschamps to say,
Speaker: didn't get his tactics right and not necessarily wrong this is how he rolls out France every big game but he underestimated Argentina or didn't see this approach and like you said France for whatever reason were really visibly flat which is just uncharacteristic of them in this in a final no less
Speaker: But these changes, while they didn't get France back into the game, were necessary. Like you said, they literally would have conceded a third, I think. And it was smart from Deschamps. And in the end, very, very smart that his team was able to survive to halftime at 2 -0, survive the first stretch of the second half at 2 -0. And they just had a lot more defensive work rate.
Speaker: bad for Dembele and Giroux, but he recognized it. So like, yeah, I think Deschamps. Dembele takes a lot of heat here. He was really bad. Giroux, this game didn't go his way. And once you're too nailed down and you have to play a more pressing style, Giroux is a luxury that you just can't afford because it doesn't give you enough at anything other than finishing. Exactly. I think Giroux would have been great and extra time in this game when the chances were flowing and maybe
Speaker: in a perfect France squad. Giroux is your super sub big man. Go score chances in the box. But because of a course, if you will. Exactly. And instead, when you have Benzema hurt, he's your best striker. And France, for whatever reason, right? Who's their next best number nine? Not really anyone. Right. And Bape plays nine or Taram does. But Tom's the left mid. So, yeah, this is this is life at the World Cup. And
Speaker: to shop had to do that change. It's tough. So Argentina come out of halftime and they just keep going for the most part in the second half. I think that was really impressive and I think that was the right approach. They didn't shut up shop immediately. They kept going and it felt like
Speaker: France is never going to get in this game unless Argentina let them get in the game. And they didn't, but then slowly but surely, and expectedly, I think Argentina's legs kind of start to go. They're forced to bring off DeMaria. I think you and I both thought that this was maybe a bit early, but also Scolone probably had a number in his head. He's gonna give me 65 minutes. I can't risk him any more than that. Takes off DeMaria, brings on Marcos Lacunya, who as we'll see later on in this match, is not on help, DeMaria.
Speaker: particularly in the attack. Argentina get a bit more defensive and they're simply just not able to continue with the intensity and the rhythm that they had, but there's still two goals up. They're still fine. It's all still going according to plan at this point. Right. The Di Maria sub had to be because of legs, like you said. There had to be a number and
Speaker: The shape was just not really a 4 -3 -3 anymore, more of a 4 -4 -2 because he's playing two stacked left backs. You can't call Acuna a winger and he wasn't supposed to be high up the field. He's supposed to track back to stop Cunde because most of France
Speaker: attacking ideas in the first 15 minutes of the second half were using the space behind Demaria and Kunde was building up and France didn't get a lot from that because Kunde is not excellent at that but they were getting the ball into the final third which is more than they could have said earlier and then Acuna just was not Demaria as you said multiple times in attack very clear he is not Demaria yeah he's not as good of a dribbler not as a crosser but Demaria's
Speaker: world class at those things. So it's understandable. And then also for France, they made subs to, their second set of subs to help come back. And Kingsley Comand comes in for Grismann and Comand comes into that right wing. And then Kama Vinga comes on, finally, finally. He played that rotated France Tunisia game, but instead he comes in, but not in the midfield, he comes in at left back.
Speaker: And it worked because he was somehow the messy pocketer because he's a very good, very athletic, has the right idea. And France didn't like come all the way back into this game, but they suddenly were able to play higher up the field. They had more athletes on the field to press and
Speaker: they had at that point more legs than Argentina because DePaul and Fernandez and McAllister had been giving insane shifts and they were still running their lungs out you could see it but just naturally Argentina's best game plan was get up as much as you can in 60 minutes and hold on and they
Speaker: Generally, we're in the position to do that. And this has happened to them now, what, three, four times in this tournament? I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Depends how we count the Australia match. Right. But if we count the Saudi Arabia match, if we count the Australia match, if we count the Netherlands match, if we count this match, yeah, that's four times that Argentina were in a winning position in either David away or very nearly David away. So right as you're starting to think, OK,
Speaker: Shut up shop. Get this over the line. You just need to somehow see this over the line. France create a moment. And it's a runner in behind. And it's Nicholas Otzamendi who has been
Speaker: Fabulous, had a great World Cup, was supremely good for Argentina, gets caught on the back shoulder of a runner, and he gives up a penalty a minute. He gets his legs tangled, cleans out the runner with his legs, pulls him down, and all of a sudden France have a penalty and a lifeline.
Speaker: It was tough road to many for this to happen. Obviously hindsight, none of this actually matters because Argentina ended up winning this game, spoiler alert. But I think this was a really harsh moment on a player who was really good for Argentina in this tournament, but also has been prone to these types of moments throughout his career. And one reared its ugly head at what could have potentially been a terrible moment.
Speaker: Yeah, like you said, he had been good all tournament. This is the first time someone was really able to get behind him and force him to chase because he's not that fast at this point in his career. He was able to keep the play in front of him because he's a great reader of the game.
Speaker: And yeah, Kolomuwani is one of the things he offers his speed and behind. Um, yeah, it was unfortunate, but this is what France needed. They just needed to get Argentina into transition. They couldn't even do that. Argentina had done a really good job through 70 minutes of locking up Mbappe, which we were like, how are they going to do that? The personnel is okay. And it was just a really good effort from Romero.
Speaker: and from DePaul, who just set extra bodies at every point. They just threw four guys at him. Every single time he got the ball, he had to get through four different guys before he could do anything, because every Argentine player was running at him full on. So they win the penalty, and Diego Martinez becomes a main character in this final for the first time, and will become a main character in this final for the rest of it.
Speaker: gets a hand to Kealan Mbappe's penalty, can't save it, Mbappe scores, it's 2 -1, and before you even have time to get like, oh no, this is gonna be a really stressful 15 minutes, Kealan Mbappe scores again, and once again, Deebo Martinez gets a hand to it.
Speaker: Credit to Mbappe here. This was a fantastic volley finish out of nowhere. Finally, for the first time after 81 minutes, he finds space and admit a world -class player like that in a world -class moment did not miss. Yeah, this to me is just unbelievable that for 80 minutes, Mbappe had not been allowed any space and it almost works for France. It needed to happen 90 seconds after the goal.
Speaker: Argentina had no time to adjust, because obviously, when you're up 2 -0, the other team's score is your first thought is, man, we gotta shut this thing up. They didn't get to do that. They give the ball away, it's in transition. It was Messi who gave the ball away, too. Calabinga, who you mentioned. Had Messi in his pocket on this play, creates the turnover. France are back the other way, before you know it, and Bapé has found the space, and he scored, and it's 2 -2. And you're like, what just happened? I know. It was...
Speaker: Truly, like this is where I was like, I can't believe that this has happened again. This was not even this was worse than the Netherlands one because there was like, oh, there's 10 minutes left. France are going to go. I was terrified. France are going to go win this. It felt like France were going to go find the third goal here. And there were moments in the ensuing kind of 15 minutes that they could have
Speaker: Because at this point, it's 2 -2, there is a weird mix of players on the field between guys who are fresh off the bench with legs and guys who have run 110 % shifts for 80 minutes. And so this game just from here on out turns into after dark chaos soccer with two teams who are not content for this to go to extra time, not content for this to go to penalties.
Speaker: And it just turns into chaos. And both teams thrived in it in various moments. But Argentina do get through the eight minutes of second half stoppage time and get this into extra time. And at that point a minute, it's like, okay, now what do they do? They used up their best players. Angel Di Maria had his moment, created everything. There are no legs in this Argentina team.
Speaker: What are they going to do to find their foothold back in this match, to take control back? Because if they don't, it felt like France were going to go score three goals in extra time. Yeah, they had the right idea to start extra time. First of all, they made a sub at right back to get on Montiel for Molina. Molina, which is just, I think, legs, right? This guy, Molina had been tracking Mbappe all game. It's not like right back is going to change everything.
Speaker: But Montel was good. It's a double chain. It's a double minded change here. It's one fresh legs at a position of importance and two with an eye towards if this goes to penalties. This guy took a penalty against the Netherlands. He's a guy we trust to take a penalty. As you see, he'll end up taking the winning penalty. It's a there's two minds behind this change. It's a good extra time change. But I think in general, the fact once Argentina survived the eight minutes of stoppage time, which
Speaker: could not, might not have happened. It ended up not being too many great chances, because I think Argentina, to their credit, did not capitulate in the last few minutes. It capitulated in this game for exactly 90 seconds, in which they went from 2 -0 up to 2 -2. Other than that, they had remarkable mental fortitude for the entirety of this game, which given the fact that they lost this game twice, essentially, was insane.
Speaker: And it's worth talking about now, the XG, just in 90 minutes, was 1 plus a penalty for Argentina, so around 1 .7, and for France, 0 .3 plus a penalty.
Speaker: It's just that the Mbappe chance isn't that high XG. And as you said, a great finish from a World Cup player. He volleys it out of there first time. And yes, maybe David Martinez could have saved it. But I think part of the reason why he was out of position is because you don't expect Mbappe to take that first time. That's what makes him good. Argentina had totally had their way in this final. And they just were stunned.
Speaker: Like you said, credit to them, they had the fortitude to survive extra time. Okay, first 15 minutes of extra time, they just kind of settled in. They're using the ball to make France pinned back. They're like, okay, France can't really press us. France does not want to come press us. France had a deep lock, but we don't need to like go open ourselves up by getting half the field. We're just going to use the ball to settle this game down. It was very good.
Speaker: from Argentina, and then they get to another set of changes that helps them. Yeah, so we talked about the change with Montiel, and then a big important change in the course of this match comes on. And it is Paredes on for DePaul, which was a legs change. DePaul was gassed. Incredible match from Maria DePaul. He was fabulous in this game. Fabulous for Argentina as this tournament went on. Did not start very well for Argentina, but once he settled in, it was very good in this tournament.
Speaker: And Lautaro Martinez comes on for Julian Alvarez, another player who had a great World Cup for Argentina and was simply out of legs in this match. And Amit, I like the way that you framed this in our rundown here because this is a great World Cup after dark comeback. Lautaro Martinez cannot pass the Wally Jadira test. That's what happened.
Speaker: Because I'm going to bring the XG back at the end of extra time. So we went from 90 minutes to 120 minutes. What did I say it was? One goal for Argentina and XG plus a penalty? Yep. 2 .6. 2 .6. They added 1 .6 goals of XG. And one of them is the messy finish. Great. Good for Argentina that that went in.
Speaker: Latara Martinez gets three chances. No, he got four. He got four because he gets the chance in the 124th minute to win the World Cup and sends it to the sponsor boards. Yeah. So Latara Martinez in the city comes on right before the second half of extra time. And in 15 minutes, Argentina are right back in control of this game because while I would have loved to have seen the Paredes sub in the 70th minute, I get to Paul, you're just getting everything you can out of him.
Speaker: And perhaps there is that much of a difference between DePaul and Paredes. But the second Paredes comes in, there's more legs. Argentina already have the ball. And now they have Martinez to run.
Speaker: to get the chances that everyone else was creating. And did Argentina create them? Yes. They were really good in opening up France. Messi was finally back in exerting control. They had to account for him. Everyone's making good plays. And then Lautaro gets all these chances, and he just is snake bitten. When did this happen to him? He's supposed to be a great player. He is a great player, but you wouldn't know it from this tournament. You'd think he's worse than Wally Jadira. Yeah.
Speaker: I think he had tough luck here. He had tough luck in the whole tournament. And so when you have that much tough luck, there's maybe something going on. But the two first chances that he had, good blocks by French defenders. Could you be better and finish them? Of course. But they were underratedly good blocks from French defenders in both cases.
Speaker: And then the third chance is just like, I'm going to hit this as hard as I possibly can and see if something happens. And it does, because it comes off Hugo Larisse right to Lionel Messi, who in this weird moment puts the ball over the line. It's cleared, but it clearly crosses the line. I thought there was an offside in the build. I didn't even celebrate this goal for Argentina. I was so convinced it was coming back. And the commentators here didn't even celebrate this goal because they thought it was coming back.
Speaker: But turns out we get the VAR replay and the big rear end of a French defender, stuck out, keeps an Argentine player offside. And Messi scores what almost assuredly, what has to be a mitt, his World Cup moment. It's the World Cup winner. Argentina have done it. Except there was still 12 minutes to see out. Yeah, zombie France, man. You can't kill him. This was an amazing goal for Argentina. I know it's a rebound that falls to Messi because Lautaro
Speaker: you know, it's harsh to say he bricked this chance because he has a top angle. He intentionally bricked it, right? Like he hit it as hard as he possibly could and said something will happen. Yeah. In that sense, in that sense, it was good from Lautaro. And this was a great buildup. And it was like, oh, man, even though France have made it this far, they're still getting opened up and battered by Argentina. This was Argentina winning the game for a second time. They had, Scolone had done it right. OK, maybe he made
Speaker: some tough changes, but he had made good changes. And now, Argentina, we're back in control. And with 12 minutes left, you're like, all right, just shut it up. And this one, you can't even blame anything on Argentina here. It's Mbappe from 25 yards out the box, and it just hits the hand of Montiel. And it is a handball in the box. And it's like, what do we have to do to get a result over the line?
Speaker: You can't account for that. Yeah. And this is a penalty. It's unfortunate. You hate that it's a penalty. You hate that it comes in the 117th minute of the world cup final, but it's a penalty. Like Montielo is making his body bigger. It's a goal bound shot. It hits him in the arm. It has to be a penalty. It sucks that it's a penalty. It's annoying that it's a penalty.
Speaker: But it's a penalty and Mbappe very cool. He doesn't give D .B. Martinez the chance to get a hand on this one. Makes it 3 -3. And we're at this point in like the 118th minute. And we're not even close to getting to penalties at this point because this game had more in store for us a minute. Because again, the Chaos Soccer is back.
Speaker: Yeah, cause both teams were like, ah, there's two minutes. Let's go win it before penalties. This is our, this is good of a chance as you're going to get this game is in utter chaos. And both teams come this close to score. Cola Moani played into acres of space and you're thinking, Oh my God, Argentina have literally screwed this up so badly that they're not even getting to penalties. This is in FIFA where the ball comes to call of water. You're ready to just, you're already pressing the Xbox button to turn your Xbox off.
Speaker: I think Cole goes in the back of the net. You're like, we've just blown two leads in the World Cup Final, like here already, and then no. D .B. Martinez, this save is insane. It's maybe not a great finish from Quan E, but it's good enough. It's an insane save. Oh my goodness. Main character D .B. Martinez is back, off his line, as big as he can possibly get, and he makes the save of his life.
Speaker: where every time you watch this replay back you're like oh my god they're gonna lose the world cup they're gonna lose it oh no he saved it and i know it's gonna happen but every time it comes on i think it's going in and that wasn't even the end of it a minute because back the other way argentina create another chance for mr snake bitten himself well tower martinez he's wide open in the box
Speaker: It's a header to win the World Cup in the 124th minute, and he doesn't get it anywhere close to goal. Like, not even close! What a sequence from Martinez to Martinez in one end. Oh my gosh, this is where I think everyone watching this game with any sort of emotional stake just fell over. Just keeled over.
Speaker: this is when we were all like this match is really something insane. And this is where the professional footballers who make up the Argentine men's national football team have a much better mental composition than I do. Because at this point, I'm like, there's no way they win this. There is no chance about Brazil when Croatia tied it up.
Speaker: we were like, um, Brazil did not have the time to emotion recover. I, for the record, for the record, texted you before the Mbappe goal, the third one. And I said, the bad news here is that if France somehow score, there is not enough time for Argentina to emotionally recover for the shootout. This is why we're not professional football. That's why Argentina. Somehow, someway, they just shook it off again for the third time in this match.
Speaker: Yeah, the shootout. We're here. We finally made it to the shootout. And you know what? This is the part of the match that needs the least analysis. Divu Martinez is the shootout guy and he did it again. And Hugo Larisse is the broadcast said he's not a shootout guy.
Speaker: I think it's tough for a keeper to not be a shootout guy, but clearly, in the four pens we saw, he was not. He had - If you count the one in regular time as well. He didn't really get a hand to any of them and that's kind of disappointing.
Speaker: He almost kick -saves the one down the middle from DiBala, who by the way - Oh yeah, I forgot! Paula DiBala came in in this match! We didn't even get there yet! All right, so let's go to the penalties here, kind of - We don't have to go one by one, but there's big penalties that are taken here. First up, up steps Kailin Mbappe. He scored a World Cup hat trick. He is 23 years old. He is trying to win the World Cup for the second time in that short span. And he takes a penalty that, once again, Deeba Martinez gets a hand to it and can't keep it out.
Speaker: That must have driven Martinez absolutely nuts. It would have driven me nuts, but that's Martinez who will go next. Messi steps up his second penalty of the day.
Speaker: And he just wrong -foot Hugo Larisse. And he takes it so casually. Larisse almost gets there. Yeah, I know. It's a slow -motion penalty where he sends Larisse the wrong way and takes it, as you said, so slowly that Larisse has time to go back the right way and almost get to it. And I, again, thought...
Speaker: Please don't miss this, Messi. You've been so good. You have done everything. I do not want this to be on you. And he didn't. And he took, for the second time in this tournament, a really good, calm, collected penalty to start the shootout. Then from there... It was big for both teams to get it. Like, if either Mbappe or Messi missed, the vibes were going to be very bad for that team. So credit to both of them. It's Deebo Martinez time, Amit. Because after he gets a hand to Mbappe's penalty and doesn't save it,
Speaker: France, step up again. Who was it? The second one for France? Kingsley Comon. Kingsley Comon, saved by Diva Martinez.
Speaker: And this was just a good save. He just read it perfectly. That's what he does. Yep, that's what he does. And then for Argentina, up steps Paulo de Bala, who came on as a 118th minute substitute or whatever it was with the sole intention of taking a penalty. And admit we said earlier in the tournament, this never works. And it almost assuredly shouldn't have worked for a player who is literally Paulo de Bala,
Speaker: who is just like this ghost in the Argentine squad, technically there, but happens to play the exact same position as the greatest player of all time who is also in the team. Yeah, I mean, I said Massey's penalty was cold. Paolo de Balla was literally cold. He's been coming to this match for a minute, had not worked up a sweat. Everyone around him is just like, steam coming off them from the hardest shift of their life. And he's probably, he has the right idea. He's like, you know, my feet might not know where to put this ball. I'm going right down the middle.
Speaker: It worked. So good job to you, Paula de Bala.
Speaker: that was a really high pressure situation that could have got a lot worse. Oh man, I can't believe it. And I think it was a really good decision to take this right down the middle because Larisse has been all over the place on penalties on the two that he's tried to save so far in this match. You know for reputation, he's not a penalty shootout guy. He's probably going to go here. Larisse doesn't have the stones like Deeba Martinez to stay in the middle. Like Larisse is not going to do that. Especially not on the second one. And I mean, he's, yeah, he's,
Speaker: Probably just thinking oh, he's going to his foot his strong foot. I'm gonna save it. Okay, and then Chomani steps up next a deal Martinez but first before Chomani can even get to the ball even Martinez just sends it I don't know where he sent it to I never saw like launches it to the edge of the box Yeah, you go get it Chomani
Speaker: I was just reading his face. I was like, ah, he looks unfazed by this. He is kind of just like amused, but clearly it was a long run up and.
Speaker: I think it's that thing where he knows D -Boo is going to guess right, so he's got to put it in the corner. This is not a save from D -Boo, but this is D -Boo being D -Boo. Yep. He earns this, I think. Yeah, he gets credit for this because you're exactly right. It's Chaleini trying to place this, and maybe he even sees Martinez is going the right way and has to place it even more, and he misses the target.
Speaker: And then Argentina are in the exact same spot that they were in against the Netherlands, where they have created themselves a very good situation. And up steps, who took the third penalty? Yeah, he takes one that lorise almost saves. Honestly, it's in the left side, it's saveable, but lorise can't stop it. Then kolo mwani comes for France. I thought he was going to miss because he had been stoned earlier and he
Speaker: is a sub. He had been fine for France in this game. He earned the penalty. But he took one right down the middle. And then on comes Montiel, the penalty extraordinaire.
Speaker: Not the guy you would necessarily have penciled to win the World Cup for Argentina. But as you know him, he's a big game player. That's why he's here. Yeah, he was a big game player when he was with River Plate. He was a big game player when he took the penalty for Argentina against the Netherlands and scored it. And he is the man who steps up with the chance to win the World Cup for Argentina. And he makes no mistakes about it. Pockets it in a weird celebration where I think he was just exhausted and just slowly took his shirt off.
Speaker: yeah so now we've recapped the game and the penalties and in this amount of time Didier de Champs is now making his first subs that's how long it took to go through this game so now we can change the podcast what a stupid stupid cave like that's how crazy it was that's how many moments there were in this game I think it was it was you said this to me at some point I don't remember when you said it today has just been a blur all the time has
Speaker: rug together. Very good of Gonzalo Montiel to make this penalty and just get it over with because we knew who was probably stepping up for the fifth penalty based on what happened against the Netherlands and it was Mr. Snakebitten himself, Lautaro Martinez, and he did it once. Did it against the Netherlands. I'll give him credit for that, but I do not know if I would be confident in him doing it again. Yeah, it's good that he didn't have to take one and we wouldn't have to
Speaker: have the ultimate litmus while the Jetera test. Hey, maybe not to bring up the 3 % again, but maybe it literally was just that Divu Martinez is a penalty kick superstar and Hugo Lares isn't. And that was all the edge. At the end of whatever happened, at the end of Argentina putting up 2 .74 XG, whatever, including the penalties, and France doing nothing, at the end of all of that, maybe it was just that Divu Martinez was better than Hugo Lares in this one.
Speaker: That is a remarkably reductive way of thinking about what we witnessed today in this World Cup final, but I like it. I'll stick with it. I'll go with it. And Lionel Messi wins the World Cup. All right. We've done the blow by blow, as you said, it took 40 minutes, but it had to because that's how many moments there were in this match. I think we should try to put this into perspective or at least talk about the things that are worth talking about from a perspective narrative. And I'll start here.
Speaker: I had this sinking feeling that Lionel Messi was going to be Sisyphus in this World Cup. That he was going to get the rock so close to the top of the hill. And this game was that. They were up 2 -0. They were tied 2 -2. He literally scores the goal to put them up 3 -2.
Speaker: France come back to tie at 3 -3. And I was like, oh my God, they're gonna lose on penalties and Messi is just, we're gonna have to see Sad Messi again. And they got it done. And it wasn't, I mean, Lionel Messi took his penalty and he made it. But everybody else around him stepped up and at multiple points in this tournament made it so that Lionel Messi was not the sole player carrying Argentina in this tournament. And that was a massive difference
Speaker: I think that's the difference because he was also at his best for Argentina. And he did, he won this game for them twice and he took his penalty. But for Argentina to get over the line, they needed the whole team. And it's almost fitting that he, at the end of the day, it was not in Messi's hands. For everything he's given in his career, his legacy was not in his control. He needed Argentina to carry him over the line.
Speaker: And they did this time because I don't know the answer to why, but their mentality clearly was something that they've had this whole tournament, their camaraderie, their chemistry, all these vibes stuff. Is that why Argentina won the shootout? We'll never know. But.
Speaker: It is certainly why they didn't lose it, right? For this shootout to have been an even match after what Argentina had gone through in the 120 minutes is a massive credit to their mentality, right? Because we saw it with Brazil. You said it to me during this match. There's no time to emotionally recover from an equalizer. We saw it exactly with Brazil. It could have happened to Argentina here and they just steadfastly refused for that to be the narrative here in this final.
Speaker: Yeah, credit to their mentality this whole tournament and credit to Scolone who definitely, obviously passed the test of whether or not an inexperienced manager can do it. He won the whole thing. And I think through this tournament, he had pulled the right levers more often than not. And he has to take credit for the part of the reason the mentality of the squad is so good because of the chemistry he's fostered. I know that, you know, players are the players and he's the manager, but like,
Speaker: there's something to be said about this group's fortitude that was clearly on display throughout this tournament. So maybe that's a good thing to have a former player of Argentina, right? A former messy teammate in this role. Maybe that adds to the reason why their mentality was good. Yeah, he was awesome again in this match today. I mean, you can quibble with the timing of some of the changes and all that, but those are very, very minor things. Even when France tied it 2 -2 in
Speaker: truly one of the most miraculous comebacks we've ever seen. He made the changes to give Argentina the lead again. It's not his fault that it's a handball in the 25 yard shot. Like that's stuff you can't control. And he unequivocally got it right to start this match. Yeah. In a World Cup final, went up against a guy who won the last World Cup final and made him make changes in the 40th minute. That's the tip of the record that you've got outcoached.
Speaker: So is this the greatest World Cup final ever? Was this perhaps even the greatest sporting event ever? Yeah, I've seen takes on the timeline. I saw all the takes on the timeline. And I don't think you can go big enough on this one. I mean, who knows in all of history and sports comparing across sports is subjective, comparing across arrows is subjective.
Speaker: But for what we saw with our eyes, to get a final this crazy, like all the moments we talked about, for it to come in with the billing, with the legacies on the line, the stage matters, right? Is this the craziest game of football we've ever seen? No, but it's up there. Perhaps one of the craziest games we've or anyone ever seen in any sport. You add that plus the stakes, plus the players involved, and then you get to like, yeah, I think it's in that conversation.
Speaker: Um, I think it's probably the most memorable world cup match of all time. I mean, in a hundred years, when you're talking about the greatest soccer players ever, I'm sure Messi and Abbape are going to be in the conversation and someone's going to say, well, remember when they played each other and it was a fair fight. Do one dude had a hat trick and the other dude scored twice and cemented like, yeah, I don't, like, I don't know. Like I'm okay with calling it the.
Speaker: the greatest final greatest soccer world cup game ever greatest sporting event. Sure, it's it delivered it just delivered and I'm not sure there's a better advertisement for what makes all the things that we love about this sport. Good and like why because of the tournament.
Speaker: It was the perfect display of why this sport is so incredible and also why this tournament brings out the best of this sport because it was two countries
Speaker: desperately wanting to win this match and it was a player who wanted to seal his legacy so badly in Lionel Messi you saw how much this meant to him and his mindset from the get -go in this match was it just looked so good he was loose he was confident
Speaker: and they just did not get down. They refused to break. France had them broken on so many different occasions in this match, and Argentina just refused to let that be the end of the story, the end of the narrative. Yeah, and I think we have to finally. We've given credit many, many times, but give a last full deserved credit to France, Duchamp and Bape, who to us were the perfect foil on the world stage were
Speaker: more than worthy of being remembered as I think one of the greatest runs generations here and they still have more for them because their core is young we'll see them be probably the favorites in 2026 if they want to be and they had injury hurt them in before this tournament and they still got to the final so
Speaker: It's really incredible what they did and it's incredible for Mbappe to like drag them into this game with like no chances. That's what he does. Let's touch on that injury thing. Did we see all of those injuries and France not having maybe first choice players at a number of key positions finally cost them in this game? I think so. I think Kante is the big one because
Speaker: They were bossed by Morocco in the midfield. They were bossed here against Argentina for 70 minutes. And Rabio was good, but was definitely suffering. Maybe that was the reason why Francis midfield couldn't cover as much ground. And there's a drop off to then Fafana and players like that. So they missed him in his defensive work rate. We did the Benzema thing. I mean, Benzema won the Ballon d 'Or last year. I think they missed Christopher Nkunku, who is a really good goal scorer, because you know who you could have put at right wing?
Speaker: instead is that guy instead of Dembele, right? They had to roll with Dembele, and Dembele is sometimes really, really good for Barcelona. But when he wasn't, they didn't have another option. I mean, Pogba, you could say they miss Pogba. I think Pogba at this point has passed it, but he plays better for France than he does at a club level. But yeah, all of those things added up. And as we said, each tournament
Speaker: the margins matter more and more. And this is one where France, the best team in the world, finally was maybe not the best team in the world because their depth wasn't as good as it had been. Argentina was able to match them blow for blow. And a lot of that was probably down to the fact that, as you said, France were missing big players at big positions.
Speaker: But Argentina, we're obviously also missing players, not to the level that France were, but there's no G of N on this team, et cetera, et cetera. You can make that case about any team, but I think it's fair and it's valid to point that out for France. You know what you probably shouldn't do to Argentina, Amit? You shouldn't give them any more motivation than they already have.
Speaker: And you know what Killian Mbappe probably did in May? I think he gave him a little bit of extra motivation. We saw this quote get brought back up. I don't know who the initial interview was with. It was ESPN FC who had the initial tweet. The Killian Mbappe South America quote, Argentine and Brazil don't have that level of competition in South America. The football is not as developed as in Europe. Not great.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm glad that didn't rear its way into the broadcast. It's a bad look for Mbappe. He should know better, right? It's also May, and the World Cup is in December. You're like, ah, whatever. I'm just going to say this. It's not going to matter. But Argentines don't forget at all. No, they didn't. And yeah, Argentina, clearly the chip on their shoulders mattered, right?
Speaker: Yeah, that was a big thing for them in this tournament. And it was something we talked about on multiple occasions was the vibes, whatever you want to use to refer to it was very good with Argentina throughout this tournament. And I think it mattered today. It clearly had to have mattered because they stayed in this when they very well could have folded. All right, some other just kind of good things to bring up about this match that we haven't gotten to yet.
Speaker: The broadcast cut a lot to the French president, Emmanuel Macron, who would to be living this match, right? The sleeves were rolled up, the impressive dress shirt was sweaty. He was all in on the goals. You may have wondered, Amit, why are they not cutting to the Argentine president, Alberto Fernandez? Why didn't he make the trip to Qatar?
Speaker: Fun fact, he was actually invited to Qatar by none other than Emmanuel Macron, who said, hey, come to Qatar, we'll watch the match together. Which also, side note, would have been a truly terrible experience. Wouldn't have wanted to do that. And Alberto Fernandez, I think this was more a political play than anything. The political nature of it is if you go to Qatar and Argentina lose, everybody's going to say they lost because you went.
Speaker: And if they go and you win, everybody's gonna say, you're just another slimy politician trying to take advantage of a supporting moment. But he had a really good response to it and said, I'm gonna watch the Argentina match from home, which is where I've watched all the Argentina matches, because superstitions are superstitions. Good choice, it worked out. It worked out, yeah, good job, good job.
Speaker: I love that type of stuff. I love that type of stuff. Other things here, the broadcast experience here on TV Publica in Argentina was as to be expected, just insanity in the last half an hour. Our play -by -play man, Pablo Heralb, he of the no passanada with the 101st minute equalizer from the Netherlands. At one point in this broadcast, after the penalty was called, dropped a, and I quote, Es una malita pessericia.
Speaker: which translates literally to, it's an effing nightmare. Yeah. Agreed. It was. Yeah, it was. I mean, Argentina fans lived through their worst nightmare in this match and it was saved at the end, but I can't imagine the feeling of blowing it twice is terrible, terrible. It was a nightmare. It was.
Speaker: Yeah, the Andres Contour goal call on Telemundo. He was Argentina roots. Great moment. I mean, yeah, that was cool. I don't need to talk too much about broadcast. I'm happy that Fox is done broadcasting the matches here. But at the end of the day, right, the broadcast feed was mostly produced on site. So it was still enjoyable. They got enough of it right. I'd love if someone else had the rights to the World Cup. ESPN did better.
Speaker: whatever it's done you uh you think we could crowdfund 2026 has already been taken but 2030 is on the table yeah i'm not sure we could do that uh i don't know probably we don't think we could you don't think we could haul in the billions necessary okay it's just we're at the point we're 53 minutes in it's grim that fox has the world cup they are just a network that is actively not interested in
Speaker: covering the game the right way. But the World Cup is too big for them to fail. So they could just roll out whatever they want. And Alexi Lalas noted World Cup after dark contributor in spirit. I'm tired of seeing him on TV. Really, really just get him off the TV. OK, that's enough for me. I liked it better when the World Cup wasn't on Fox. And if Telemundo had 4K, I would watch every game on Telemundo. But Fox has 4K and it looks better. So there you go.
Speaker: He's on TV a lot. They use him a lot. He gets his money. He yells things, and that can be entertaining for people. Speaking of yelling things, first take tomorrow. You think we're leading with the Dallas Cowboys or Messi and Bape? Dallas Cowboys lost in overtime. I know what Stephen A's coming in. Maybe he'll wear a cowboy hat and a Messi jersey, because Messi is, and I quote, a bad man.
Speaker: There you go. All right, we're diving off the rails here, just like the Argentina France match did. If we could last another 10 minutes, we would get to the point when that match also went off the rails after about an hour and a couple of minutes. All right, the celebrations here in Argentina. It was just, I don't know, a unique otherworldly experience.
Speaker: Unlike anything obviously I'd ever witnessed, I would imagine, obviously you weren't here, but unlike anything you'd ever witnessed as well. Just the outpouring of joy and elation and also initially relief because there was just this sense of they did it. They actually did it. Messi did it. He did it. They did it for him. He did it for them, for us.
Speaker: Uh, was really incredible. And so after the match, you know, I went out and, and just in my name, I didn't go down to the, to the obeliska, which is just going to be a nightmare for about the next three weeks, potentially. I don't know when that's going to go back to normal, but just the amount of people just out on the street celebrating, they closed down the whole big avenue in my neighborhood and people just kept coming from everywhere.
Speaker: it was just people and more people and families and the coolest thing about it for me and the thing that really kind of struck me was
Speaker: It was everybody. And Argentina is not really a country of everybody. When River Plate win, it's the River Plate fans and the Boca fans are mad. When Boca Juniors win, it's the Boca Juniors fans and the River Plate fans are mad. When it's a protest, it's one side or the other who has mobilized and is out on the street. And there's always somebody against the people who are out on the street making life difficult for people or celebrating whatever it is.
Speaker: But it wasn't that today because it was everybody and it was families. It was old people. It was young people. It was single people. It was this really cool experience and is obviously something that I will not ever forget in my life. And to be here during a World Cup was an immense experience. And to be here during a World Cup, that Argentina won.
Speaker: And also the World Cup that they won for Lionel Messi. Really, really cool. Really cool. Yeah. It's a once in a lifetime type of stuff, right? Like, yeah. It's hard to have won three World Cups. First South American World Cup since 2002. I mean, what you're talking about is stuff we understand, right? The power of sport, the power of soccer, the power of World Cup, the power of sport to unite.
Speaker: Sure, we understand all that stuff, but then to see it right for a South American team to win and you see what it means. And then for Argentina to win, for Messi to win, the layers just keep adding up. It's not going to be like this, anything like this ever again. Like, I don't know. Yeah, that's the that's the thing about it is winning the World Cup is one level and is an insanely high level to try to get to, but winning it for a
Speaker: multi -generational superstar on what is probably his last chance, although Lionel Scolone didn't close the door. He said in 2026, 10 -shirt. Cheers, Messi. It's yours, buddy. Smart, like good manager. Of course, absolutely. You're not gonna say anything else. But I think for all of that to happen, it's like, I don't know. I can't say that it's the most significant World Cup win there's ever been.
Speaker: But it's just insane and happened. And Lionel Messi won a World Cup. And I'm super ecstatic for him and for his family and for everything he's been through in an Argentina shirt. And it's so like trite to say, but it just makes you really happy because it should because. Yeah, you're in the Argentina, but so.
Speaker: I'm not in Argentina, but I feel many of the things you feel. I've always been a messy fan. I've never been like a Barcelona fan or a messy like fan fan. Like, oh, I follow him everywhere. But in the messy Ronaldo debate, I've always kind of leaned messy. And I just think even people that are on the other side of the debate, anyone that's been a fan of football, I think you have to appreciate him.
Speaker: And now, right, the legacy is unassailable. There's no one who could say anything. And he was already the greatest of all time before this tournament, before this win in the final, before his Golden Ball award, but he's left no doubt. And that's what's like beautiful about his legacy, right? Is that he's won the World Cup. He has no holes on his resume and to do it
Speaker: with Argentina and South America is adding to that. I mean, he's I think it's pretty definitive at this point. I don't want to hear arguable anymore. I know there's Pele and Maradona, but like. It's what Messi has done is insane, man, and when he's the era he's done it in, I you can't compare across era, so I don't think it's fair. So I think it's the most thing you could say is the best player of his generation. But that hasn't been closed for a while.
Speaker: But now he's in the stratosphere of greatest athlete of all time. And I'm not going to say he is or isn't. He's in that conversation. But in soccer alone, what he's done is wild. And the fact that he didn't just get this title by being a passenger, to me, is what's the most impressive.
Speaker: He was the best player for Argentina on the best team in the tournament. And age 35, after 15 years of his career in World Cup struggles and the emotional weight, what else is there to say about Lionel Messi that hasn't been said? He truly is the greatest footballer ever. I don't know what to say, man. And that's why, if you've ever liked football, you're happy for him. I feel like, and if you're not happy for him,
Speaker: whatever you've got going on about it that's that's on you that's fine but like it's really hard not to be romantic about this it's really hard and it's so cool because this is a thing that probably won't matter to messy now maybe it will like in a couple weeks
Speaker: But to have that, yeah, but just out of the conversation forever, right? That was always the thing is like, Oh yeah. But can he actually be without having one? But no, it's gone. That's not an argument. It's not a viable argument anymore. And as you said, there is no way of taking
Speaker: his role in this win as well out of it. He was fundamental to Argentina. He was immense for Argentina. And they do not win this World Cup without Lionel Messi on so many moments. And maybe he wasn't actually the best player on the pitch for them today. I think there's an argument to be made that it was actually on held the Maria.
Speaker: But other than that, this tournament, he was their most important player. He was their talisman. He was their captain. He was their uniting force. And they got it done. That's such a good story. We so often don't get that story. Something always goes wrong. And you're left ruing, oh, it would have been great, but
Speaker: France got a penalty in the 116th minute, scored it, and then won on penalties. Oh, it would have been great, but Argentina gave up a penalty, and then France immediately equalized, and then France went on and won the match 3 -2. But somehow Argentina put all of that behind them, and Lionel Messi ended this night by lifting the World Cup trophy. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. It's so good. And we did that one podcast. We were like, you know,
Speaker: There's the LeBron, the Tiger, the Serena, the Rafa, the Roger, this last athlete. Their athletes are on their last dance type of thing. Michael Jordan, 98, they're doing like, can the old guy who's aging still get one more? And that story is beautiful. And it's also the Argentina story baked into that with the team playing for him.
Speaker: I don't know what else to add. We could talk for two hours about Lionel Messi's career, his legacy. But the fact that you said the Hollywood ending isn't supposed to happen, that was my point about those other ones. When it's happening, you're always like, I can't believe he's doing it. It's like the Bruce Willis action movie or the Liam Neeson action movie. We were like, this guy's too old. There's no way he's going to do it. But it's the action movie. So he gets it done.
Speaker: But here it is. They did everything they could to stop him. He's a superstar in the highest sense of the word. He's transcended whatever is supposed to happen. I don't know. France tried their best France magic to stop this from happening, and it still happened. Why? Why? I don't know why. I don't know why. This game made no sense to me, but Messi won, and that's Hollywood.
Speaker: And there's the cool, it is a Hollywood finish. It's so Hollywood that you walk out of the theater after you see it. And you're like, I mean, good movie, but like, come on. They're cracking. It gets to 2 -2 and they're crumbling. That's what happens in real life.
Speaker: Yeah. No, you're right. That's what happens in real life. And that's why you get like the rigged narrative. Like, oh, it's rigged. Oh, it's rigged. You think they rigged this one? Yeah. That narrative out the window with what happened here. Oh, man.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just, yeah, every, I don't know, I think back on this match and every time I think back on it, there's something new. I don't know if it's new, something different pops into my head, right? It's like, oh my God, that's a thing that happened. Like we were prepared to do this podcast. We kind of let it sit for the day, mainly just to try and process it a little bit.
Speaker: And it was like, oh, I forgot that Dembele was hauled off after 40 minutes. Like that was going to be the narrative. Argentina were so good that France had to make changes after 40 minutes. And that ended up being like three levels down on the things you remember from this match because of how crazy it was. Yeah, it gave us everything. I think this will be one of the most rewatchable matches of all time.
Speaker: And it's so much more rewatchable because this has a happy ending. I want to talk about this one just specifically. We both love sports, right? I love LeBron. I like all sorts of star players. You know how many views the last seven minutes of game seven of the 2016 NBA Finals has? Millions of millions of millions. People just will go watch the fourth quarter of that game. This is because of the happy ending. And for me,
Speaker: Roger Federer's 2019 Wimbledon, I can't watch it. I watch a lot of old tennis matches and I can't watch it because he loses to Novak Djokovic. He has two match points. It's like, how do you choke that? That's what happened. That's what this was supposed to be. But the happy ending, everyone ever is going to be like, let's go watch Messi win his World Cup. This match will age as the greatest match of all time, like fine wine. It's just going to go down as that.
Speaker: for all the content like we're sitting here trying to unpack the content what six hours seven hours later and we're like running on fumes here an hour and six minutes in just think about going able to revisit this match in your life at some point it will give everything back to you soccer soccer gave us everything today it did
Speaker: Yeah, and I think the really cool thing for me specifically is it's going to give all that back to me and it's going to take me back to a really unique place with it. Like, you're going to be brought back to your apartment in Chicago, which is a cool place to be. You got three cats. Love cats. But like,
Speaker: there's no visceral connection with the match itself. Whereas like from my perspective, it's like in 10 years, I'm going to fire this match up and I'm going to sit back and I'm going to laugh. Yeah. France or I'm just going to laugh. And it's going to be like, ah, I thought I was dead. I thought it was over. And it's going to take me back to this experience of living this exact World Cup with these players in this moment. Um, and it's incredible.
Speaker: Argentina are coming home tomorrow, Monday night. I hope they sleep on the plane. I am exhausted, like me. I did nothing today. I walked outside for an hour after they won and I was just like, I'm done. I have to go back home. I'm tired. And they somehow survived the roller coaster of not only this game, but also this entire tournament, which as we said, was a roller coaster tournament for Argentina.
Speaker: They come home tomorrow. Tuesday, there theoretically could be a meeting with the crowd. I will not be attending because there's no chance I get anywhere close to seeing anything of consequence at that. It's just gonna be a lot of people in the street singing all the songs that we've been singing for a month now.
Speaker: But yeah, the celebrations are going to go on and on here in Argentina. And when Argentina show up at the 2026 World Cup in the US, Canada, and Mexico, and maybe even more so when they show up to the 2038 World Cup in, I don't know, the moon at that point, potentially. New colony, new FIFA colony on the moon. The songs that they sing are going to be about this day.
Speaker: Like the whole muchacho song with 86 and 78 and the Malvinas and all of that. The new verses are all going to be about this day and this moment and Messi and Deebu and Di Maria and McAllister and Talia Fico and Kuti Romero and all of those players. And that is also something that's really cool.
Speaker: It's eternal. You can't take this moment away from them ever for any reason whatsoever. And for that to be with Lionel Messi is pretty darn cool. Do you have anything else here as we wind this thing to a close? No. I was just going to bring up, you know, we picked Argentina as the romantic pick and we acknowledged it. And we both, I think, secretly this whole tournament were like,
Speaker: Uh, we're going to get caught. We're going to get caught. Argentina at best in this tournament, we're the third best team. And over time, I think they deserved, they deserve to win. They were the best team here. It's not often that the best team wins actually. It's hard because by the time you've won four knockout matches, you've, you can say you're the best team, but it's like, you know,
Speaker: Were they the best team coming in? No, but at the end, they were. And it was truly incredible. I just am impressed by it. And it's a testament to the, you know, maybe we knew what we were talking about at the start. Maybe we didn't see it going like this, but I think there was a reason at the start of this podcast, the stuff we all thought would matter about Argentina's X -factors and the extra whatever.
Speaker: showed up and that's, I know, disrespect to France who clearly brought their own set of everything that makes them good. But in the end, right, we saw that Argentina had the messy effect, which mattered. They had the squad that mattered. They had a manager that could do it, answer the questions, and they just navigated the true, unpredictable chaos of knockout soccer better than anyone else. Because in this format, at some point,
Speaker: everything goes out the window and you need to be the biggest dudes in the room and they were and like we've reduced every game in many ways but I'm fine reducing it to that and that Argentina's mentality helped them in this one. Well that is the thing that I think
Speaker: makes this title so endearing to me. I mean, it's endearing to me for a lot of reasons, being here, being messy and all of that. But we've hit this age of soccer, football, where analytics are crucially important and numbers and stats and performances and formations and tactics and all of that. And there is a place for all of that and all of that is very clearly abundantly important.
Speaker: but it also makes me feel really good that at the end of the day, something that cannot be quantified by that. There is no XV. There's no expected five. There's no X. Your goalkeeper is probably sick in the head, but it worked for you because he can make penalty saves. Nothing can quantify that.
Speaker: And at the end of the day, that mattered for Argentina in this tournament. And it's reinforcing that teams that showed up to this tournament with a pile of stats, and I'm not anti -analytical. I think analytics are fundamentally important. I think they help us understand the game. I think they make the game better. But I also think that they cannot explain everything.
Speaker: and that it's foolish to try and quantify everything in a number. And so for Argentina to win this World Cup in a way that was numerically unquantifiable was very rewarding to me personally and to my ethos of what I want this sport to be. And that has made me very happy today. I'm with you. At the end of the day, for all the control that you can try to put into a soccer game, at best it's
Speaker: you know, 50 % skill and 50 % luck. And teams have spent the better part of the last 10, 15 years trying to squeeze that margin to 52 to 53%. But in the end of the day, like, yeah, I'm with you. And like, I'm an analytics guy. I love analytics, I think more than more than you, but I like will sing their praises and be like,
Speaker: They inform us. They can teach us things. You should make decisions based on them. And we agree, I think. We're on the same page about them. But because I'm also of the mind that the other stuff matters. And is this hindsight as 2020? We're saying it mattered because Argentina won? Sure. I think so. But I think also, if you've been listening to us this whole time, the stuff we said about Argentina showed up, right?
Speaker: On multiple occasions. In multiple occasions. So there's something to mental toughness in sport. There's something to developing it as a skill. There's something to chemistry in sport and developing that as a skill to managing egos and collective will. And Argentina, you know, were they perfect? Will we ever know how much it mattered? No, but they got enough of it right that they won.
Speaker: Someone had to win this tournament, and if they were going to, they were probably going to be good at all the intangibles. You need the intangibles in place to make the other 50 % of your skill work. And that was there for Argentina this tournament. So we're on the same page. I was pleased that Argentina won. They weren't necessarily the best team here on talent, but they did so many things in the margins to help them win, and they weren't all analytical, on -the -field things.
Speaker: And they got rewarded for attacking the game. I also like that about it. In a tournament that didn't actually see a lot of negative football, which I think was a good thing, maybe at points there were, coming off a World Cup that I think saw a lot of negative football. In 2018, it was a World Cup that was dominated by the post -analytical, reduce the game into moments, have the better moment makers.
Speaker: Argentina didn't play that style at this World Cup, pretty much at any point. And because of that, it's great to see them get rewarded for showing up at this World Cup final, the biggest occasion for just about every single one of these players and saying, you know what? We're going to attack this game. We're going to attack it with vigor, with venom.
Speaker: We're going to blow a lead twice and we're going to get rewarded for our attacking nature. I think that is a good thing as well. And that helps this sport going forward because maybe it makes more people try to play the game this way. Yeah, I think.
Speaker: I'm with you. I'm with you. They approach was good and courageous. And it shows you don't have to necessarily limit the events to win if you have the right idea and the right approach and the right personnel. And it goes to Argentina, you know, something that the numbers maybe missed was how good their midfield was and how good Alvarez and Enzo Fernandez were. And that's another big X factor is that, you know, for all the data we have, it can be wrong.
Speaker: or it can be misleading, right? You still have to understand more than there. There's some stuff that's harder to quantify or maybe the public doesn't have and others do. So all these little things add up. This was truly like a team of destiny for Argentina. And that's weird because like we had said that at some point, maybe four or five, six podcasts ago. And it was like, okay, in soccer, is there such a thing as destiny? Like soccer is one of the most chaotic sports.
Speaker: the fact that they were like, it's a weird thing. Is it confirming something that isn't true? It is true. Or like, are we projecting it onto? I don't care. Team of destiny. Sign me up. All right. We're going to bring this to an end. This was really fun. I enjoyed this podcast with you. Do you want to do one more episode recapping the world cup at some point this week? We should hand out awards. There's a whole tournament to talk about.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's a fun exercise to go through some players and teams. Why not? All right, listeners. We'll see you again sometime this week with our World Cup recap. We'll hand out some awards. Vincent Abubakar, beyond standby. Your World Cup After Dark award for best red card is going to most assuredly be on its way. So hang out there.
Speaker: This was fun. This might be the last podcast that people listen to because they don't want to listen to the World Cup After Dark Awards. If that's you, that's fine, but you should listen. This was fun. I enjoyed it as always. I am ecstatic that Argentina came out victorious. I am happy that our predictions are right, not because I care about my prediction being right, but because my prediction being right made me very happy.
Speaker: I'm with you. It's not about getting predictions right. This podcast was fun because we like talking about soccer and we like the same things about soccer. I hope for anyone listening, you like those things too, and that we made it enjoyable. That's what this was about. How you think Cristiano Ronaldo is doing today? Probably not well. He probably is not someone that took the events of today well.
Speaker: Go try and get that goal back on your record that you may or may not have touched your hair but definitely didn't. That's all from us at World Cup After Dark. Thanks for listening as always. We'll be back one more time to wrap up the World Cup at some point. If you liked what you heard today, please rate and review us. If you didn't like it, rate and review us as well. Your negative reviews will give us energy.
