Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back everybody to another episode of buying a house in Japan, the world's number one Akiya podcast.
Speaker: Today, your host, Joey, me joined by co-host Take and we have another special guest with us. This is our judicial scrivener, Hiro-san.
Speaker: A judicial scrivener is very... complicated to foreigners. I will just come out and say that. And part of this episode, what we're trying to do is simplify that and really explain the purpose of a judicial scrivener in Japan when dealing with real estate transactions. So let's get the ball rolling. Welcome hero to the podcast.
Speaker: Hi, I'm Kiro. Hi, Hiro Taka. Thank you guys for having me here. Awesome, Hiro-san. Thanks for being here. And just for so we can get all the terms aligned again, I know judicial Scrivener means like absolutely nothing to me as a English speaking person.
Speaker: In Japan, it is called a shihôshôshi. Shihôshôshi. That's right. Okay. Yeah. And not to be confused with Gyosei Shoshi. Sounds yeah similar.
Speaker: and They do different legal things, right? You're right. Gyosei Shoshi is an administrative scrivener, right? Yeah. Okay. And Shiho Shoshi is a judicial scrivener. Judicial scrivener. Yeah. Okay, Hiro. I'm going to put you on the spot here. What does a Shiho Shoshi or judicial scrivener do in the real estate transaction process?
Speaker: We help clients with title transfer. And you know, when you purchase a property in Japan, you want to record the title transfer at the recorder's office and, you know,
Speaker: required documents to do so. So I help with the clients preparing those documents and with the application to your title transfer.
Speaker: Got it. So really title transfer quarterback, like you get the title transfer from point A to point B, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you actually, let me back. i got some questions about the actual registration process, but let me just back up because I, before this call with you, Hito, me and Take were talking and trying to go, okay, what's our understanding of what a Shiho Shoshi is? And you're trying to figure that out. And let me just.
Speaker: run by a very quick scenario and you let me know if it sounds correct. But during the real estate process, the buyer of the house will send the money directly to the seller or to the real estate agent. And then the real estate agent sends it to the seller and then the seller sends you the title deed to the house, and then you check that the money has been sent from buyer to seller and that the seller has sent you the title deed. the Title deed checks out, everything looks okay. And then you submit the application for title transfer with the government. Is that, is that correct? Yeah, you've done yeah that is correct.
Speaker: And i also confirm the intention of the sale with the seller and perform a identity verification and with both sides, the ah seller and buyer. Yeah.
Speaker: Do you actually, before we go too far into, I think we should got to rewind the clock and talk a little about Hiro himself. Hiro, where do you live and how did you get into this Shiho Shoshi space?
Speaker: Um, I'm based Nagoya and some people might know where the city is right it before Kyoto.
Speaker: ah Yeah. That's the station Nagoya. Famous for chicken wings. yeah. Yeo.
Speaker: yeah We met Hiro a couple months ago in person and we had some like the best Unagi I've had in my life. Yeah. Hiro, I loved your story when I asked you why you became Shihoshoshi.
Speaker: I love your response. I don't know if you're going to tell the same story, but I'd like to ask you that again. Why did you decide to become... A judicial scrivener. ah I was interested loans and I dropped out of college.
Speaker: My major was ah electronics, but I had zero interest in in it. And so I was kind looking for a robot what to do at that time. And i was interested in the loans because I know ah what drama.
Speaker: And about lawyer and I thought, oh, that is so cool. Like it's hard to become an attorney because I kind of passed the bar exam in Japan and it's super hard.
Speaker: So I was looking for some career that is related to the law, you know, legal stuff. I found this job and yeah, of course you got to pass the exam and it was super Hurts for me, but I just tried.
Speaker: and Did it? I heard the pass rate is so low. It's 3%. that right? 3%. Yeah. yeah Okay. I'm highly skilled here.
Speaker: Random Preston hero. Did you ever play Ace Attorney? It's like that one... It's like the Japanese video game with the attorney. like I remember that when were in college. Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney. I remember playing, I think, any video game. On Nintendo DS. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Nintendo DS? No. Okay, okay. like Ira, how long have you been a Shiho Shoshi for, a licensed for? Like 26 years. Oh my God.
Speaker: Whoa. Okay. It's too long. Grandmaster here. And how long have you been dealing with foreigners? I know this is maybe a more newer side of the business for you, right? Yeah. It's...
Speaker: It's been a year, like we had foreign clients before, but it was completely different transaction. I helped foreign clients to security deposits when they moved out of power plant.
Speaker: Those clients are living in Japan, not in a foreign country, of course. Yeah. So it sounds like a judicial Scrivener does many different things. You're helping people get their security deposits back, performing title transfer applications with the government. What are the main things that a judicial Scrivener does? The main thing for me is title transfer.
Speaker: Okay. so but Do other judicial scriveners specialize in different things or they all mostly specialize with title transfer? i also toas Mostly specialize in title transfer, but also help people set up a company.
Speaker: Oh, okay. It's like LLC or Inc. Or GK or KK. That's right. Used a judicial scrivener to set up our company. That's right. Okay. And that judicial scrivener said they do not do real estate at all.
Speaker: And we asked several times and they said, no, that it's it's interesting. So it sounds like you, you pick a specialty as a judicial scrivener. Yep. Okay. And your specialty here is recording deeds and working with foreigners at this point, right?
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. Can you do a real estate transaction in Japan without using a shihoshoshi? That's the question we've got. Or do you always need a shihoshoshi in every transaction?
Speaker: If you do on your own, you could do that. Really? What are the risks? What are the risks if you do it on your own? Do you need to know Japanese to like, could me and Joey record our own? Could we do it ourselves without you?
Speaker: If you do that. Really? Not that we want to, but okay. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. it It's not a mandatory to use the Shihoshishin.
Speaker: What are the, but so I, again, I was doing some reading about judicial scriveners before, this podcast recording and it did talk a lot about the risks. So it said, yes, technically you don't need a judicial scrivener. You can, again, for a foreigner, probably you do because you're not going to be filing these documents yourself for Japanese person.
Speaker: Technically you don't need a judicial scrivener, but there's risks involved. Yeah. You could, you can get scammed much more easily. you believe that's true? Me, yes, I do believe that it's true.
Speaker: Yeah. Cause we judicial scrivener do check the identity at the closing or before the closing and to make sure there are no problem in both the party's identity and the documentation.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. in After we confirmed that there's no problem and the seller can make the final payment there, and the payment is not a small amount of money, especially buyer wants to make sure there's no problem.
Speaker: Okay. So while you can technically do it yourself, there are risks that got. And as far as like KYC, making sure you're not getting scammed. How much paperwork is it? I like my assumption, it's like you do a lot of paperwork to register to the deed.
Speaker: Can you talk a little about that here? And yeah, I need some documents and the crucial document is an affidavit.
Speaker: In Japan, we have other certificates called, but foreign nationalists don't have the certificate course. And in instead of a the document, we prepare an affidavit that includes your legal name.
Speaker: address and data board. Yeah. Does that affidavit need to have your address on it? I know we've had some situations where people maybe don't have a US address, but they have a US passport or something. Any advice there?
Speaker: Affidavit needs to have to include the address. Is that? So just, you mentioned that for a Japanese home buyer, they use the Jiu Min-Hyo and because most, and for a foreign buyer, they don't have a Jiu Min-Hyo document. So they get this affidavit.
Speaker: Just a quick question about the Jiu Min-Hyo. Is that what the Jiu Min-Hyo is in Japan? It's essentially name, date of birth and address. Is that what it is? current address and basically.
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. So essentially we're including those information. We're trying to recreate the Jiu Ming-Hiu through the affidavit. know yeah Got it. And here, let's say I'm a U.S. resident, but my permanent address is in my house in Vietnam that I live.
Speaker: How do you deal with those kinds of situations? Do you need an affidavit for you saying you're a U S resident, but your U S address, let's say U S citizen citizen, but you live in Vietnam. I live in Vietnam. What I do, I get an affidavit for Vietnam in that situation.
Speaker: Or I like, yeah I haven't. Yeah. You can get an affidavit notarized at a not really public in Vietnam.
Speaker: So it's the address that's the important part. You want the notary public to say, yes, you do live at this address. Okay. Yeah, yeah absolutely. and And so to my understanding, you also need some IDs, right? So either more driver's license or both.
Speaker: Both. i don okay I want to get it. there yeah I need to submit ah ah file a photocopy of your passport signed by you. Yeah. Understood. And how long does that passport need to be valid for? Let's say my passport's expiring in three months, but my settlement date on the house is next week. Is that okay? Or is there any limitations around that?
Speaker: It's totally okay. Okay. Yeah. As long as your passport is valid when you ask some maybe in the application to the recorders office.
Speaker: Sorry, just a question on that. So you get ah ah copy of my passport and driver's license. Are those used by you, one, to check my identity, find my identity, but you also submit those to the Japanese government when you're doing, applying for the title transfer or you, or no?
Speaker: I submit only photocopy of your passport, not driver's license. Okay. long Got it. And Kira, I you're being humble here and saying people can do this themselves, but I think as a foreigner, you can't read and write Japanese. This is very difficult and another thing to do without a Shiho Shoshi. Is that right, Hiro? Yeah. I would, I personally never want to attempt this. And even if we did attempt it, I do believe we'd mess something up and it'd get returned and
Speaker: I guess on that here, like how often do you go back and forth? I know you've been doing this for 20 plus years, but how often do you, if you make a mistake on the title transfer, is that, how often does that get pushed back to you or you get it right every single time?
Speaker: I wouldn't say never, but very few. Okay. live yeah Do you ever, again, doing some reading about judicial scriveners and it talked about the risks of not using one.
Speaker: Do you ever see different people in your industry, other judicial scriveners acting a little bit scammy or have you ever heard of scams in your industry?
Speaker: Yeah, don't still. big scam, like five or 60 years ago, the almost biggest real estate company got a scammer.
Speaker: It's, it's yeah. It's a big scam. And the show related to the story is on Netflix.
Speaker: don't to there it's why i know yep yep Okay. And was this, sorry, was this related to the work of a judicial scrivener, how the scam happened? It was. It was. Do you know what, is it easy to explain what happened or is it a complicated scam?
Speaker: A scammer just created really good fake fraud. driver's license or something, I, I think some ID, fake ID. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. And they obtained certificate with that fake ID. Okay. And they sold someone else's property.
Speaker: Property they did not own. No, they did not own. Oh, yeah. They did. And so that. yeah Big, real estate company paid for it.
Speaker: But the title didn't be transferred. Yeah, it wasn't transferred to the buyer. So I'm leading up to a question here with the scamming question.
Speaker: Sometimes I've heard when we've had clients trying to purchase a property, the seller's side says, no, you need to use my judicial scrivener. You can't use Hito-san. You need to use my seller's side judicial scrivener.
Speaker: Is that Do you think that's okay? Do you think that's a red flag, something the customer should be concerned about? more do you think normally it's fine? It's normally fine, but they're on the service side, side.
Speaker: They work for the seller. Which means... I don't think it's such a good idea to use a sterilized site. Okay.
Speaker: When possible, it's always better for us to bring you or our buyer side, Shiho Shoshi, to the table. A couple different reasons. One, it's dealing with foreigners, but also just making sure that our our guys on our side, but that makes sense. Every seller's going to want her, she, ho, she, we're going to want our she, ho, she, in the U S it's similar to like escrow where if I'm a seller side, I'm going to want to bring my escrow officer versus the seller buyers. But I think we've, we found a way to elbow our way in sometimes. And I think we're quite distant.
Speaker: Hey, are you open to using, working with foreigners? Use hero. He's foreigners. list Yeah. Usually the seller side, judicial scrivener doesn't know about how to help a foreigner buy. So we're just like, ah mean our guy does. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah and Hero, I know a lot of times you're chasing down customers, but do you have any advice for someone who's just starting the Akiya purchasing process or what are some common mistakes or questions that you find with customers, especially foreigners, as you help them through the transaction process?
Speaker: Or what's one message you could give them before they start? I get this ready or something like that. I ask my clients to send me their passport and driver's license to prepare necessary documents for their signatures.
Speaker: Yeah. and I prepare all the documents in English for their understanding because they don't want to sign documents that they have no idea yeah what they say.
Speaker: So I prepare documents in English. Okay. And then then I know for some customers, you can also act as a power of attorney. Is that and kind of correct? Or can you explain that a little bit to us?
Speaker: They can hire me as an they as their agent to act on behalf of them to sign the real estate purchase agreement, ah making the final payment to the seller.
Speaker: So and and in these cases where you do act as power attorney, I know we have some different relationships with different, but some of our agents, but some of them, you will be the power of attorney and then they will send the money to you in that case, right? And then send it to a seller on the day of settlement. Is that correct?
Speaker: Yep. Now here, I'm going to switch over, switch gears a little bit here. I hit you with the last week, but I want to talk a little about inheritance. I know inheritance is a complicated and different subject. And I guess the big question we get that I don't know how to answer is like, Hey, I bought this Akia in let's say ah in Nagoya and I died.
Speaker: What happened? I died tomorrow. What happens to that property? Who inherits it? Can you explain what happens? If you leave a will in indeed youate me in the U.S., and if the will complies to the law in the U.S., you can use the will to yeah for the title transfer for interiors.
Speaker: and ter himm Okay. And is there like an inheritance tax or like let's say this situation, I bought $50,000 Akiya Nagoya.
Speaker: I die and I pass on to my son. What kind of cost can they expect? Um, I don't think you need to be worried about inheritance tax, but just when you buy a house in Japan, the title sounds for fees and recording taxes will.
Speaker: I'm trying to tell for that. Yep. Yep. Okay. Can I, sorry, just to make sure I understand, let's say i inherit a house in Japan from my parents and my parents have a will that in the will, it says I inherit the house.
Speaker: How would I go about actually making that title transfer happen in Japan? I would provide you with the will or what sort of documents would you ask for? You need to collect like, you know, parents' death certificate and other certificates to show that you're yeah a child or the parents and plus the will, uh, written in English, of course, and you need to, trans, translate, translate documents into Japanese.
Speaker: Got it. And is it easy if someone buys under an U S based LLC or something for inheritance it's all basically the same? Well, sorry, I don't have... So let's say I own the property, the Akiya under my US based LLC.
Speaker: yeah Does the inheritance change at all in that situation? Okay. You mean the property is under your company's name? Yes. yeah Okay. Then, you know, change the name on the properties.
Speaker: It just follows the US. Yeah. Okay. The LLC rule. So let's say me and Joey, we own fake LLC. We buy this Akia. Fake LLC.
Speaker: but but here race Placeholder name LLC. but And I get hit by a bus in the LLC. If... Joey, if it's written into the LLC, Joey inherits that meaning we don't need to change the title.
Speaker: No, I think what, I think if I'm not mistaken here, you're saying that the company, because the company owns the LLC, if Take passes away, the company still owns the LLC and it's ownership of the LLC. That is now up to question. Do I inherit your shares?
Speaker: I guess there's no shares in LLC, but do I inherit? it Oh, total control. No, not that the company keeps the property. It's about, do I get all the LLC or not? Yeah. And that's US based LLC thing, not maybe a Japan thing. I think, is that understanding correct, Hiro?
Speaker: What's the LLC? Okay. A G-K. Yeah. It's like a G-K. Oh, LLC. Okay. So it's just a company. If a foreign company owns a property and the owner of the company dies, is there anything on the Japan side that changes? or You don't have to do anything. Yeah.
Speaker: The LLC name on the property and... If, if one of you pass away, nothing changes. Yeah. Understood.
Speaker: Okay. And I just, I'm curious in a situation, let's say U S person buys an Akiya in Japan, they have no will or something, or they have no inheritors. Does it just go back to the government? How does that, how's that process?
Speaker: Yeah, they the property will go to the government if he or she has nothing. and Inheritance. Yeah, inheritance. Interesting.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah, I think from a Shiho Shoshi perspective, that was most of our questions. I think it's clear that you are the... title transfer expert here. You work with foreigners and we're going to send this podcast to a lot of folks that we have working with you. Hiro, yeah, just any advice or any observations that you've had about after helping so many foreigners buy in Japan, you know, any thoughts about it, about the atheist base? You should work with English-speaking real estate agents for better understanding and
Speaker: Also, they should work with me to be English speaking. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Good advice. And I think something we'd try to say too, again, you can do a lot of this transaction process yourself, but working with not only one of maybe potentially our Akiyama direct agents and who will work with Hiro-san here, yeah I think just makes the process a lot smoother, kind of leave it to the experts.
Speaker: It's well worth the headache time and money, in my opinion. Okay. I would not attempt this myself, even speaking a little bit of Japanese and having purchased multiple properties already. It's just, it's not worth the trouble. Once you've seen, and my opinion, Japanese government documents and the requirements to fill them out.
Speaker: i don't think anyone is going to want to take this on unless you, this, unless bureaucracy is your thing. Cool. Even Japanese buyers don't. Do the trans title of transfer transaction on their own.
Speaker: It's comp it's too complicated to do. Yep. ye Cool, Hiro. Thank you for being on the podcast today. I'm sure we'll have you back with some more questions. So if any listeners have any specific Shiho Shoshi specific questions, please shoot us an email.
Speaker: Again, Hiro, thank you for being on. We're very grateful you work with us and we're excited working with you. Yeah, and chair thank you for having me Thanks for joining Hiro.
