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Revolutionizing Sustainable Mobility | Vikash Mishra @ MoEVing
212 Plays3 years ago
The Indian auto industry is going through a gradual but essential change which will continue for the next 10 to 15 years. If the trends are to be believed, the Indian EV industry is estimated to reach USD17 billion in the next five years.
In this edition of Founder Thesis, Akshay Datt speaks with Vikash Mishra, Founder and CEO, MoEVing, an electric mobility-focused tech platform working towards accelerating EV adoption in India.
With more than 15 years of experience in the energy and mobility industry, Vikash started MoEVing in 2021. The core idea was to build a driver-centric technology platform that provides EV ecosystem solutions, thus contributing to reducing carbon emissions.
Tune in to this episode of Founder Thesis to hear Vikash speak about how MoEVing is transforming sustainable mobility in India.
What you must not miss!
- Challenges faced by MoEVing.
- EV ecosystem solutions.
- How MoEVing help the driver-partners?
- MoEVing’s revenue model.
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Transcript
Introduction to Zencastr
00:00:00
Speaker
Before we start today's episode, I want to give a quick shout out to Zencaster, which is a podcaster's best friend. Trust me when I tell you this, Zencaster is like a Shopify for podcasters. It's all you need to get up and running as a podcaster. And the best thing about Zencaster is that you get so much stuff for free. If you are planning to check out the platform, then please show your support for the founder thesis podcast by using this link, zen.ai slash founder thesis.
00:00:27
Speaker
That's zen.ai slash founder thesis. Hi, I am
Meet Vikas, CEO of Moving
00:00:33
Speaker
Vikas. I'm the founder and CEO of Moving. I'm very excited to be here at the podcast with Akshay.
Tech Leadership in Evolving Industries
00:00:51
Speaker
Every time there is a technology change in an industry, it leads to new giants being won. Walmart was one of the most valuable retail companies in the US for many decades. And today, Amazon is worth more than double of Walmart. We can also see this in the EV space. Tesla is worth more than the legacy auto companies like Ford and GM combined.
00:01:12
Speaker
In India, this same story is currently playing out in the space of electric mobility. And I am pretty sure that one of the winners after this period of disruption would be a company called Moving. That's
Moving's EV Mobility Platform
00:01:24
Speaker
M-O-E-V-I-N-G. And as you can guess from the name, this is an EV company.
00:01:30
Speaker
Moving is building an EV mobility platform that combines all the pieces of the puzzle, from vehicle to financing to driver training to charging infrastructure using a layer of technology. And the man behind Moving's disruptive approach is Vikash Mishra, a veteran in the EV space who started moving with a mission to support the transition to sustainability in the logistics industry.
Vikas's Transition to Sustainability
00:01:53
Speaker
Listen on to Vikash telling Akshay Dutt about the ambitious platform approach of moving.
00:02:00
Speaker
Since I studied in Delhi, we used to walk in the campers, green air, the whole green campers, clean air breathing. When I moved to Burghar, I had to ensure that my kids wear masks while going to school. This was not the same Delhi NCR that I used to study back in 2000. So I realized maybe I want to do something about it.
00:02:27
Speaker
because this is a problem that everyone is grappling with and I decided to call it quits in the oil and gas sector.
00:02:33
Speaker
And then I thought, OK, what is the new sector I want to be? I definitely was very clear that I want to be part of the EV sector, a clean sector. And electric vehicle was an opportunity for both in terms of whether it is a business opportunity and a sustainable opportunity. So electric vehicle was at the intersection of both the business opportunity and the sustainable opportunity.
00:02:57
Speaker
So that's where I started with Mithra Mobility Electric Bus Startup. I set up the Electric Mobility Initiative at Shakti Foundation, working with the government and the Delhi State governments and other state governments on various EV policy measures. And then I joined lead here for electric car business. And I was the business head for the North and the East, working with various corporates for our switch, making ensuring that all the employee transport that they do using a clean and the electric vehicles.
00:03:27
Speaker
That was when all welded in 2020 and
Impact of Pandemic on Mobility and EVs
00:03:31
Speaker
I thought I was perfect. I wrote that electric vehicle is the future of mobility and I'm at the perfect level of my career and this is exactly what I want to do in life.
00:03:42
Speaker
But then this whole COVID life did happen. And within that, the whole passenger mobility came to a halt. Everyone started working from home. There was no need for people to come to office and withdraw by home. So the whole passenger mobility took a downward hit.
00:04:00
Speaker
At the same time, we have also observed that the e-commerce market is growing at an alarming rate. People who never ordered before was ordering left, right, and center. People who were used to ordering were increasing their order by 2x, 3x, etc.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I realize this will lead to a huge demand of vehicles that is being used in the delivery segment. And there's a huge opportunity that this new demand is made by electric vehicles and not by traditional ICE vehicles.
00:04:34
Speaker
And that's where the concept of moving was born. And I
Funding Moving: A Visionary Approach?
00:04:38
Speaker
reached out to all the people that I worked with in my professional career. And I told, this is the vision. I want to accelerate the UV adoption in India. I want to solve it in the ecosystem approach way. I want to solve it slightly differently because it requires a different mindset and different approach.
00:04:55
Speaker
And all surprisingly, actually, everyone I spoke to, they came and joined me. That was not even in the paper in 2020. You know, doing a logistics business definitely needs upfront investment, right? Like you need to buy the vehicles and you need to hire the drivers. And only after you start doing the delivery is when you get paid. So you need that working capital. So, you know, how did you like secure the capital to actually launch it?
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, but that's a very good question. So normally, as I've told before, all the friends in my ID Delhi campus days came in support of me. I reached out to them. They are very good rules. Some of them have become investment bankers. Some of them have become founders. Some of them have become private equity professionals. So they are veteran in this investment circle. So I reached out to them and everyone without even seeing my deck, they wrote a check.
00:05:53
Speaker
And immediately within just a few days, I was able to do these first five crores with the company without a pre or revenue. And that gave me the confidence that, you know, that there's a vision that I have. There's a team that's backing the vision. There's a group of investors who are rallying behind me. So that gives me more and more confidence that we are, I'm on the right track and I'll definitely give my, everything that I have in my capacity to make the grand census.
00:06:21
Speaker
What was the plan like when you were when you must have made a deck before you reached out to your network for the seed round? What was it like? What was the focus? What did you like you wanted to buy EVs and then do last mile delivery? Was that the plan or what was it? No, the plan
Overcoming EV Industry Challenges
00:06:38
Speaker
was that electric vehicle adoption has multiple challenges.
00:06:44
Speaker
So if you have to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicle, you need to solve the ecosystem challenges. And when you talk about ecosystem challenges, you talk about, okay, what is the right kind of product that you have to select?
00:07:01
Speaker
from the right OEM, that's number one. What is the right kind of charging infra solution that you have to build? Third, how do you get the skill sets of train driver in August 3? And four, how do you solve for financing of electric vehicles? So once you have all these problems, you say, okay, we'll solve all these problems. But when we go to customers, who are
00:07:27
Speaker
huge demand appetite to convert to electric vehicles and I saw a lot many e-commerce players coming and saying of openly, be it like Flipkart, be it like Amazon, Big Basket, championing behind the cause of electric mobility, so it was a huge demand.
00:07:42
Speaker
But at the same time, I realized that ecosystem challenges they don't understand, and anyone who, and they cannot solve for it. So we wanted to be a solution provider, a technology-based solutions for all the e-commerce players. And we want to become a one-stop solution for making them switch from current, even if their eyes basically to electric vehicle fleet. And what do we in the backend needs to be solved for?
00:08:09
Speaker
whether it's the right kind of product for the use case, right kind of infrastructure financing and this drivers that we will solve as a moving technology platform. So that was the whole pitch that we are coming between the demand and the various puzzles of electric vehicle ecosystem and we will provide the entire ecosystem as a service provider to this e-commerce player so they don't have to worry about making a switch.
00:08:35
Speaker
We will ensure that it is a seamless switch. We'll ensure all the SNAs that is applicable for the ICE vehicle is same as SNAs for also the metric vehicles. And we give a better experience in terms of making the switch to metric vehicles. That was the pitch. And most of the investors understood that the future of mobility is easy. And if I am coming there as a visitor with a plan and with a vision, then with a team,
00:09:04
Speaker
then much more willing to support that vision. It was a very easy thing. Today is the first five kilos with a very simple business plan that we want to... We have understood the use case and we know that Last Mile's LMD has a huge demand tension. We know that it is very much cost competitive and we knew that the whatever product is available in the market in that two million and three million segment
00:09:30
Speaker
is appropriate for adoption of EV in the segment. That was the main story that we brought to the investors. And most of them got it. Most of them, they moved check and supported the vision. And also they were running behind me as an individual. That plan is, everyone can make by writing, who was the man behind the plan this day and supporting me. So I also felt first time huge responsibility on my shoulder to make it happen.
00:09:57
Speaker
But, you know, here, you know, people are writing a checkmate, you know, whatever small, small they are writing, but there's a huge expectation on you and you have to meet expectations. So you go with twice the energy, twice the enthusiasm, twice the excitement to make it happen. And that's when the entire team worked very hard for a one-year period. And the last one year, we have gained the reputation of being the number one EV service provider brand in the country.
00:10:24
Speaker
So, that's a payback we have given to investors in last one year.
00:10:28
Speaker
Sir, now you're saying that you wanted to solve these four challenges. Let's talk about all four of those, vehicle, charging, driver, and financing. I'm assuming that these four challenges you would solve so that you can run an EV logistics company, right? You're not just providing a tech product, but you're providing a service. Correct, correct. See, tech is an enabler for us. We also want to understand electric energy transition is a big thing that's happening in the world.
00:10:57
Speaker
and it's not just having a platform we solve today. Technology will always enable to scale and make it more efficient, but it will not be a solution in itself. So ultimately, hundreds of billions of gallons of oil and gas assets has to be converted into assets of solar paddles to wind farm
00:11:17
Speaker
to electric vehicle, to the charging micros. That's the transition we are seeing. So I always believed that it cannot be an asset-free mechanism. It's not only ag-based business. So it's a hardcore business. That's why people I got in my team who has run the electric vehicle for 100 million electric vehicles before, who understand the technology roadmap, who understand the business tech, who understand the B2B. So I got very experienced team with me because it was a big thing to move. It's not an easy thing to do.
00:11:45
Speaker
So customer doesn't want to see only one piecemeal solution. Customer wants to see, I want to outsource all my headache to you. Yeah. They just want to switch the vendor, but not change anything else major, you know. Or which product, or what financing. It's all the product piece, right? If you look at, I'll say in terms of in typical ICE vehicle.
00:12:14
Speaker
You can go to one another, you can name three companies and you can
Charging Infrastructure Strategy
00:12:18
Speaker
go and buy a product. You can go to Bajaj, you can go to Hido, you can go to TVS. Between three or four brands, you will know which one to buy. Similarly, between three or four brands, Atul, Bajaj, Piaj, you will know which one to buy. In any space, you have almost 40-50 OEMs and every week you will see new OEMs coming into the market.
00:12:39
Speaker
And how do you filter these volumes? I'm going to give you a better product.
00:12:46
Speaker
match with the better service and match with the long-term commitment to ensure supply of the electric vehicles. So that the selection is RIB. So whenever we do a vehicle, we do a thorough testing of multiple conditions, multiple cities, multiple climatic conditions before we say yes to onboarded vehicle. So far we've only onboarded three vehicles on our platform, three-wheeler and only three or four vehicles in our two-wheeler platform.
00:13:14
Speaker
So we are very conscious about making the first decision, right? Because if you get the product strategy right, then everything else that you will do will fit anyway. So that was number one. So by choosing the right product, it saves you from maintenance hassles and downtime, like all of those things don't come and it runs cheaper because if there's no downtime, there's no maintenance, then it will be more productive.
00:13:38
Speaker
Absolute absolute. See how does the vehicle make money? Vehicle makes money by running number of kilometers in a month, but also number of days in a month.
00:13:48
Speaker
That's what uptime is all about. So if your vehicle is performing as it was supposed to perform, day after day and kilometer after kilometer, then it's a good product. And if something goes wrong, if the coin is backing you up and providing you a world class service to ensure that they feel the same pain as you are feeling the pain about the downtime, then you have the light partner where you have to walk with.
00:14:11
Speaker
So that strategy has worked very much for the advantage. Which OEMs did you select? I selected, they also launched in January, February. We selected Alty Green, who is a Bangalore based company. And then we have selected Euler vehicles, which is a Delhi based company.
00:14:31
Speaker
Okay. So manufacturer in India or do they like it from China? PIGO manufacturers ordering in manufacturer's vehicle Bangalore and other manufacturer's vehicle in Faridabad.
00:14:46
Speaker
But of course there are elements of electric vehicle, be it in terms of cell and also in terms of electronics, semiconductors. That component still has to be imported, but that's true for many automotive industry in general. So there is a certain degree of localization that you can achieve by manufacturing India. But of course there are certain percentage that you cannot do with the current manufacturing setup. So there's a partnering dependency on import still is there in the sector.
00:15:17
Speaker
those are the makers we onmoded and then there was the first problem is someone getting the right product for the customer and that was a very huge thing because the customer started trusting our judgment on advising them on choosing the right product for the use case.
00:15:33
Speaker
And in exchange, we've also started educating customers about paying the different commercials for the different vehicle segment that we are offering the same FOC factor. So in 3D, we learn for PIO vehicle which are different commercial. In 3D, we learn for ordering vehicles which are different commercial.
00:15:52
Speaker
I always explain that in a very transparent way and why we are doing what we are doing and what is the advantage that you are going to achieve. Neither you want to oversell you a product that can be done by a cheaper vehicle. Neither I want you to force with the cheaper solution which will not meet your use case requirement.
00:16:12
Speaker
So in that case, the customer started trusting us as a thought leader in the industry and we know that we are talking sense and we have a firm belief that we want to overall have a good experience with you. So customer like start liking about the product selection strategy. And then number two was about charging infra, right? Charging infra is the case that people say, okay, how can you rely on other CPOs? Let them build, why you want to do build around?
00:16:42
Speaker
There are so many CPUs in the country. Every day you will see one more charging company coming up.
00:16:51
Speaker
But I think that if you ask that, what does your gut feel? What do you believe? Why are you in the sector? What is the locus and strategy? What is your locus and intelligence? What is the right hardware? What is the right software? What is technology completely lacking in the understanding? Even the biggies, everyone is crafting their own narrative. Someone is saying battery swapping. Someone is saying fast charging. Someone is saying slow charging. We say, I don't know.
00:17:17
Speaker
We have taken a view that we will be a technology agnostic company in terms of charging in front, which means if the fast charging is going to work for our vehicle of our customer, we'll try to apply fast charging solutions. If battery shopping is working for our customers for the use case, we'll go for battery shopping. If it was slow charging, we'll go for slow charging. So we have taken a technology agnostic approach and we have not married to any solution on the charging part. That's number one. That's the key reason.
00:17:46
Speaker
Number two, we want to ensure that the problem in India is that most of the chart, if you will get two things, one will say, oh, there's no charting infra, but wherever there's a charging infra, you will see the utilization is about 5%.
00:18:04
Speaker
So once you have it, have a low utilization, then also you complain that you don't have it. So we wanted to solve this problem in one shot. We say we only create at location where we see the demand happening here and now. So let's say we'll do a mapping of a geospatial mapping of entire city and we will see which location warehouses are located.
00:18:26
Speaker
because they are my current customers also and they are my potential customers also. So that location intelligence gave me the idea where to set up the charging infra, where from one single charging arm within the 3 to 5 kilometer radius, I will be able to meet the requirements of multiple customers. So that was the location intelligence.
00:18:47
Speaker
Second, we know what is the kind of vehicle they are asking for. So we already know what kind of charging infrastructure solution we have to provide from a hardware perspective. And we know that we need to almost be a data and technology driven company. So how do we make it smart charger? How do we collect the data from every charger and bring it to our server and our use of it?
00:19:08
Speaker
So, those will, hence our charging infra is 70-80% utilized. None of the CPU charging infra is 70-20% utilized.
00:19:21
Speaker
Now other CPUs have come to us now and say can we use your charging infra because we find that this location that you are set up charging infra is very good. We find that the way you are setting up your hardware and software is very good. So now we have started with the delivery business and say you are right but now because people are liking the charging infra strategy they are coming up other fleet operators who maybe are competitors also.
00:19:46
Speaker
they are coming us and they are coming us and they are started using our charging info also I am from believer that I will always moving will always be a open ecosystem platform approach which means it's like a telecom network where you move from geo to Vodafone to Airtel
00:20:03
Speaker
is a seamless switch. Similarly, the way you build a charging from network should be like an end-to-end network. You may move from moving charging point to there's a magenta or with any charging point operators. It should be a seamless switch from a user perspective and that is the mindset. I want the CPUs to also collaborate with us and some of them have come to us and we already collaborating and sharing data.
00:20:27
Speaker
So that's part of the charging infrastructure strategy that we have solved it. We have solved two things. One, we have solved, it's a cost effective solution. So we only do it for a purpose. And we do always do well. We have 70 to 80% utilization, we see. So that is how we built our network. So because of that, our charging infra itself is a profitable business. It can be a profitable business. If we start charging a little moving delivery, can we pay to a moving charging business? It will be a profitable business as well.
00:20:59
Speaker
If you like to hear stories of founders then we have tons of great stories from entrepreneurs who have built billion dollar businesses. Just search for the founder thesis podcast on any audio streaming app like Spotify, Ghana, Apple podcasts and subscribe to the show.
00:21:20
Speaker
You could have also partnered with a solution provider and told them, set up charging infra for me here and here. Like, why did you decide to build rather than work with the provider? We did that. We did that. Initially, you know, the women, you do a lending post, they say you'll get 10 charging.
00:21:36
Speaker
providers.
00:21:55
Speaker
Do struggle that they ask us though we can provide this we can provide this what you can we can give you there when I realize it neither they have the financial resource, neither they have the real estate understanding capability, neither they have the whole hardware nature, they have the whole software. So basically,
00:22:11
Speaker
I think in mindset of the people, it's like a petrol business. The moment you put a tender of petrol business, you will see a hundred applications coming forward. I think charging infrastructure is a thought-leader business. If you are a thought-leader, you understand the sector, you understand the nuances, then only you should be in the sector. You should not be just for the sake of fun.
00:22:29
Speaker
And I think most of the companies are coming for the sake of fun. So I tried and we failed. We miserably failed. Except for one or two, we miserably failed. Then I realized none of them know about it. I think helping them educate, helping them learn, helping them become aware. So right now, moving academy is not a part of the business model. And I think in the growing future, if I start moving academy, then probably I will challenge the environment fees for all the CPOs to come and learn from us.
00:22:58
Speaker
But I tried. So we have signed a contract with all the top CPOs in the country. In the other two cases, we are using it also. But I think we are not happy with our ability to scale up with speed. At least the speed where we need comfort will be. One thing I'm very clear, I'll never compromise on the speed part of it.
00:23:19
Speaker
So either you match up with my speed, moving speed or you will be left behind. So somehow we have not been able to, not been single player who has been able to match our speed. Because in this last one year, let's say we have set up 20 charging hubs.
00:23:33
Speaker
already, which is having about 500 plus charging points. I don't even know any of the CPUs have that kind of network in the country. This year we are planning to add 80 more, so we've become 100 charging hubs. And we are getting more flagship hubs now, the bigger scale, 15,000 square feet kind of thing.
00:23:50
Speaker
And if you are in Bangalore, sometimes you should come and visit. It's a state of the art charging in front of your building, which even global PR will appreciate that. You could come there. If you have a tachonic sound, you can come and charge at a place. If you have a MG Hector, you can charge at a place. If you have a simple three wheeler, which vehicle you can come and charge at a place. If you want to swap your vehicles, you can come and stop at a place. Because the way I have thought, the way I have thought,
00:24:14
Speaker
that it has to be a form factor agnostic. That means, circular, trivial and singular can be charged. It's a medium agnostic. It's whether it's a Piaggio vehicle or the Ashulian vehicles or the Tata vehicles will give the same respect to all those vehicles, all those OEMs. And third,
00:24:31
Speaker
I don't understand which technology is going to win, whether it's a fast charging, slow charging or the battery strapping. So whichever solutions are available now will provide the solution and it will time will tell which technology is going to win and will go with the winner. We are also shutting up our maintenance and service center. So how much is the right kind of maintenance service required for electric vehicles? And we are building the whole driver training program, a big center for because we want our drivers to be trained
00:25:01
Speaker
in the new sector. And that's what we are building. So tell me something, is there laptops, mobiles, everything is converging towards USB-C as the charging port? Is there something like that in EVs, like a common charging port template or format, like you have USB-C and laptops and phones?
00:25:19
Speaker
Yeah, see, there are two kinds of things standardization here. One is in terms of what is the upstream supply that you're coming, this means from the power load kind of thing. So that for our slow charge is the 16 amps plug point. That is standard. For the fast charger, you will have a 30 kilowatt, 50 kilowatt kind of load. So that part is standardized. What is the device you are putting up inside your vehicle? That part is not standardized, right? So for example, your iPhone.
00:25:50
Speaker
will require a different charger, your HP laptop, different charger. So that is a multiple charger point. That is going to be there. There's a lot of talk going on in terms of standardization and all that, but I personally think it's not a big problem because we have been accustomed to use iPhone chargers and HP chargers. So if we are used to that having a different mobile and different charging points,
00:26:15
Speaker
I think for electric vehicles we should be comfortable having different charging points for different vehicle types so I'm not a big hung up on the standardization debate. Okay now let's talk about drivers. How did you react to that? The problem with the drivers is drivers are used to driving an ICE vehicle.
Driver Training for EVs
00:26:34
Speaker
They are used to noise and they link noise with speed, so they know how bad the vehicle is making noise, that is how speed they are running, that's number one. Number two, their acceleration is all about consuming more fuel and decision, there's no meaning. There you drive 50, you drive 60, doesn't matter. When you come to electric vehicle, the way you are able to get more range out of the vehicle, it depends upon how you do the speed management.
00:27:00
Speaker
If you run a vehicle at 45km in the steady state, you are getting better range. Also, the design speed is 60 kph. Similarly, if you are not putting a brake and isolating it, you are also going to regenerate some of the charge that is lost. So, how will this behaviour require? What is the best way of getting the light from the vehicle?
00:27:24
Speaker
It's very much driver-dependent. Hence, we track a lot of data for drivers in terms of when they put the brake, when they put the definition, how much the battery degrade, how much the battery charge fall, and we use the data to do that. There are two kinds of training programs. One is before taking electric vehicle, we train them about the electric vehicle. The voice difference, how charging, how to that.
00:27:45
Speaker
That's why there's also quite a learning by doing kind of thing. So that's why he was a lot of data-driven approach. He was a driver. He got 80 kilometer out of this range because he did XYZ thing. You got 60 kilometer because you do the ABC. Hence, if you do XYZs, you can also do ABC. That's the kind of live data-driven training we provide to our drivers. And we feel that is a co-differentiation covered compass to re-skilling and rebuilding the manpower that's required for the driver thing.
00:28:15
Speaker
This data, like vehicles come equipped with sensors to capture the data or is it something you customize? We customize it. So we have our own hardware device that we provide in each of the vehicle that we operate. Every vehicle then throws the standard data to our server and then we do our own data science team analyzes the data in terms of our server.
00:28:41
Speaker
So that's the piece that we add on top of whatever OEMs providing. Otherwise, it's very difficult to get multiple OEMs, some giving two data, some giving more data, and then you can't do anything on earlier part. So that's something we have a very clear strategy on what is the right telematics hardware, how do we collect all the data, how do we store the data, and what do we control data in the very clear strategy of ours.
00:29:07
Speaker
How did you know that you had to do this? Because this just sounds like something which people would learn through mistakes like you got vehicles and your driver screwed it up and then you realized, is that how you learned it or did you already know that we need to do this? It's already new because the last four or five years I have been working in this electric vehicle space but I've only one face of the company.
00:29:30
Speaker
But there are like, you know, a hundred member D, who's also well-built in vehicle space. So there are people who have come from telematics company and the data company, who have done this telematics solution for a lot of many players. They are out of my D. They are finding the right path, the right way to do it. At the last leg, which is financing.
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah. Now, financing the dinner is that the driver will never be later. At this stage, financing the driver is a huge thing because the big boys are not participating in this game. They are saying, okay, we'll see when the future of technology will come and then we'll decide what to do.
00:30:12
Speaker
Well, I think there are not a lot of big boys like the big boys like SDFC, ICICI, you know, you know, serial finance, they are like vehicle financing people think that, you know, the future is not yet there. Well, I said before we talk about this.
00:30:31
Speaker
Does the driver buy the vehicle or does the customer buy the vehicle? We want to, we want driver to buy the vehicle. But problem is, if you are not sure about the company and the product, how can you ask a driver to go and buy the vehicle? So our bonus of brand is, first few vehicles we'll buy it on the company's book. We'll get our drivers to run the vehicle for five, six months.
00:30:54
Speaker
Once the driver gets comfortable with the vehicle, comfortable with the electric vehicles of product and then when they say I'm ready to become a micro entrepreneur, we have the financing to become a DC. But till the driver is a life cycle for a driver, but till the time driver wants to become a DCO, he is riding the vehicle which is owned by or leased by a company.
00:31:20
Speaker
What is DCR? DCR is like driver cum owner model. So basically driver is also the owner of the vehicle. So basically driver then buys the vehicle and we give them assured revenue because we have a back-to-back contract with the e-commerce players and
00:31:35
Speaker
he gives the confidence that what is the inability of the vehicle and how much he can save more by moving from driver to become a micro decio. So this is like standard industry norm that companies don't buy drivers by like this decio. So it's a typical dual and trivial space.
00:31:56
Speaker
It's a driver who owns the vehicle. But getting a vehicle financed for a driver and for a diesel vehicle and a CNG vehicle is easier. Because they also know which vehicle to buy. William also knows which vehicle to sell. Financial also knows which vehicle to finance. When the moment you come to EV, the driver doesn't know which vehicle to buy. William doesn't know which vehicle to get financed, how to get the finance. And the financials have completely closed in terms of what vehicles to finance.
00:32:25
Speaker
But that becomes an unsolvable problem. So we come in mid-finance and say, okay, I want to buy X from this dealer. You finance, you better finance it to us. Let the driver experience it. Once the driver experiences that, I will share the data to the financial also that he has been working with us for the last six months and he has been working with us and he has been earning a decent income to us.
00:32:51
Speaker
So you also become bankable in that sense. So that is how we graduate the drivers to become a DCO through our life.
00:32:59
Speaker
So, say, delivery, e-comm express, typically they don't own any of the vehicles, their drivers own it. Correct. So, delivery is a long-stressed company and delivery is also our customer. Their transport part is completely outsourced to a provider like us and we are the partner for electrification. So, all the electric vehicle that happens in delivery, it happens via us.
00:33:22
Speaker
And when a driver decides to become a DCO, does he then acquire that car which he's been driving? Or do you help him get financing for a new car? New car. See, actually, when you and buy a new thing, will you prefer to buy a home which you are a stake on trend? Probably 90% will say I'll buy a new one. So that is the option we give to the new vehicle to them, those drivers.
00:33:50
Speaker
It's of day one he is owning the vehicle, day one he is renting the vehicle. That is the preference. However, we are also having a program when the driver says, you know, I'm very comfortable with this vehicle now. I've been running this for one year, so I would like to repurchase this vehicle only. So what we're going to do is, if a typical new vehicle is about 36 months EMI, this, if the vehicle is already complete one year, then we'll only pass on the 24 months EMI to the driver.
00:34:17
Speaker
So he gets, he becomes free of the EMI grid faster, but he also, but he also knows that he's taking a vehicle, which he was running anyway for one year. So that transparency will break. Yeah. Okay. And the driver gets a salary or is it like a pay per kilometer or something like that? Like, how's the driver paid? Like, like when he joins, initially we give a
00:34:45
Speaker
assured income to him that if you work for 26 days for this many working hours then you will get a fixed component of it. On top of that
00:34:56
Speaker
If you have a performance-based incentive, we give that if you deliver the server of orders or if you maintain the time, when you run the regular lines, if you meet the customers with the KPI and all, on top of that, we drop it from more incentive for them. So there's a base level salary on top of that incentive that we provide to the drivers. So there's a motivation to be more professional in meeting the requirements of the customers.
00:35:21
Speaker
Okay. And DCOs, do they get paid something like that? No. So DCOs also what we have done is we have given an assured. See what's happening actually in the AV space, in the cost of the capex is higher. Our typical signal is about 3.7, 3.8 lakhs. The EMI burden is also on the higher side.
00:35:40
Speaker
Unlike Ola and Uber, where a driver doesn't know how much his window earned today, we give a fixed daily return on that driver attendance, so that he is able to meet his AMI, he is able to meet his regular charging and parking expenses. On top of that also, after paying all these things, whatever he is allowed to save is much more than, at least 20-30% more than
00:36:06
Speaker
what he was earning as a driver that much he is reassured by giving him a minimum one shift job now beyond that point if he was to do lower for example let's say a day shift is about eight hours a day shift he also wants to do a big delivery in the morning run or a wasteable and this would be the morning run then we also give them the option of half a day shift more
00:36:30
Speaker
and that case he's already recovered his AMI, he's already recovered his charging and parking spaces. Only the incremental operational cost is there. So it always increases for the whole motivation that we have and say is that how do we make
00:36:44
Speaker
sustainable mobility act with the sustainable livelihood of a driver. That is what we are aiming for. That is what we are focusing on. And you have NBFC tie-ups to do the funding of the vehicle on behalf of the driver. Correct. So we have tie-up with all the financial institutions. Earlier they were financing us. Now the same partners are also into finance our drivers.
00:37:07
Speaker
Because there is a income guarantee, so therefore... Correct. We give to income guarantee and we also tell them on a monthly basis how many vehicles run, what was the drug attendance, how was drug performance, what was the... So basically, what we want to solve is a data and technology platform that don't make an impression of any community or any technology on your own. Look at the data, see the data and based on data you make your insights.
00:37:37
Speaker
Don't punish the 95% of the driver for 5% of driver who didn't pay in time. So that's the education we have to do with the financials. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. And let's talk about the revenue part of the business now. So how do you charge your customer? Is it a per kilometer or a per order or what is that model like?
00:37:59
Speaker
Most
Revenue Model and Financial Goals
00:38:00
Speaker
of our contracts are based on per vehicle per month kind of contract. Some of the early contracts are on the per order model. But we are also slowly moving in terms of minimum guiding on the order. So the base level revenue is protected. And on top of that is incentive if you do more orders.
00:38:18
Speaker
So I will say we are having a contract both in terms of fixed revenue per EV, per vehicle. Lastly, for three-wheelers, it is the same way. For two-wheelers, half of them is in the per month fixed contract. Only half of them is more in terms of per order kind of contract. So there's only two-wheelers. Okay, okay.
00:38:40
Speaker
So, when a company is taking per vehicle, are these like delivery, these kind of logistics companies who take the whole vehicle or are these like even Amazon Flipkart would take? Both. So, Flipkart, Amazon, delivery, all of these players have a fixed requirements of the vehicles. So, they plan the remotes and all of that. They just take the vehicle from you. Correct.
00:39:05
Speaker
Vehicle, so we provide the entire system, the vehicle plus driver plus charging infra, whatever is required to run that operations using electric vehicle, we provide that. Why don't they just do this on their own? Because like a DC or Visa, they don't need to invest asset, they just need to arrange financing for drivers. So why don't they do this on their own? Why do they outsource to you? Because they are taking care of the road mapping and all of that on their own only. Think about it, say like a Flipkart will have 25,000 to 20,000 vehicles.
00:39:35
Speaker
If they start managing and working with 25,000 DCOs, it'll become a hell of a task. So rather than becoming an e-covers company, they'll become a transport company. We come in between as a professional organization and say in the background, we'll manage everything. If the vehicle doesn't work, we'll replace it. If the driver doesn't work, we'll replace it. So we will take care of the entire SLA of your requirements. You only have to take a word paying us on a monthly basis.
00:40:00
Speaker
If that is a better model or you buy entire 25,000 vehicles, you get the driver and then you manage a daily hassle of paying the DIY and doing the maintenance which in the uptime for the charging in front of the humongous task. Where is humongous task?
00:40:17
Speaker
I don't think in India it will never happen that whether this old company will take back all the work that they are doing now in an outsourcing fashion that they will like to take it back in a fully controlled way.
00:40:31
Speaker
So how much do you, and obviously it will be different for a two-wheeler or a three-wheeler, but give me some idea. A typical three-wheeler, depending upon which way, which OEM, which brand, which range, which battery capacity you're deploying, we make anything between 40,000 to 50,000 rupees per month. This is the top line.
00:40:54
Speaker
This is the invoice that we raise. As a moving company, we raise the invoice to the customer. Whether it's a DCO or vehicles owned by us, ultimately that's how the backend will follow. If it's a DCO, then we will just keep our commission and we'll pass the entire amount to the driver.
00:41:17
Speaker
If it is owned by us, then we will pay the EMI, we'll pay the driver salary, we'll pay the charging, parking expenses, and we'll pay the rent expense. And that's how the whole thing was in the similar space. And what about 10%, 20%? So if you remove all the costs of the driver and everything, then it will come somewhere between 10% to 15%, depending upon contracting.
00:41:46
Speaker
Two-wheeler are typical. Two-wheeler will make anywhere between 20,000 to 25,000 per month. And if it's a driver, as you pay for all this EMI and everything else, then I think it will be like 10% margin that year.
00:42:02
Speaker
Essentially, it seems to me that this is a supply-driven business. The key driver is supply. If you were to add 1000 more vehicles in a month, then your turnover would automatically be 1000 into that X number that you're earning per vehicle. The only constraint is how fast you can increase supply.
00:42:19
Speaker
The demand is there for the taking. There's no more. There's a beauty of this in this sector. Any amount of time, the contract that we have signed and the vehicles that we have committed is 25 times more than the vehicles that we have connected. So what is the best? You cannot ask for anything better than this.
00:42:43
Speaker
But then at the same time, we don't want to ensure supply of cheap, underrated vehicles to them. Then you lose the confidence in electric vehicles as a sector from the customers.
00:42:56
Speaker
So we want to provide a solution that is matching the expertise of the customers, that is matching the experience of the ICE vehicle at the same time. How many EVs are you adding every month right now? So right now we have this phase where we are adding about 150 to 150 vehicles per month. Okay. But we would like to increase it to 500 as opposed to 1000 vehicles per month kind of department.
00:43:23
Speaker
And what is your current size? Total number of aircraft? We can have about 750 fleets. Out of which 450 is about 2 million and 300 is about 3 million.
00:43:35
Speaker
So the way I see it, you have two challenges. One is that 30 lakhs for every 30 vehicles, how to bring that number down or how to make the number of vehicles higher, like 30 lakhs for 100 vehicles instead of 30 lakhs for 30 vehicles. The second is how to increase from 150 per month to 500 per month. So what is the solution? Is the solution more money? What is it like?
00:44:01
Speaker
Right now, we are part of those concerns. First, six months was a difficult period, but no one believed in us. And we didn't have numbers to show. Now we have numbers to show we have customer contract, we have financial. I think it's ability of the top selected OEM that we have selected, the ability to supply those vehicles to us on a monthly basis, that is where the challenge is. Okay. They're not able to meet your demand right now. Correct. Correct. Correct.
00:44:30
Speaker
So that moment you have global situation, something happens, the whole global supply chain sucks. And then one is dependent on the other. And we'll say that there was four weeks of lead time, now it will take another eight weeks of lead time. So that's where the whole planning becomes behind. That's why in this year, at the starting of the year, I have given a firm demand to all the audience for the entire year.
00:44:55
Speaker
In fact, we have given them order invisibility till 31st March of 2023. So that they can plan in advance in terms of what is the number of vehicle that parts, battery, motor, that they have to buy to suppliers.
00:45:13
Speaker
So that is something that I'm hoping that this year will be a much better supply situation. But I will be more confident when I see things happening on the ground. So you're planning to buy what, about 5-6,000 vehicles in the next 6-1 years? 3 years. So we have given the order of 2,500 vehicles to Piaggio. We have given the 1,500 vehicles ordered to Altigli. We have given 1,000 vehicles ordered to Euler.
00:45:38
Speaker
It doesn't look similar. We are talking to a very least respectable OEM in the full refactor. We have signed the MOU of 1,000 footers whenever it's out in the affiliate way when we work.
00:45:52
Speaker
out. We have signed the MOU for a 1,000 electric vehicle as a four-wheeler truck from the leading OER, and then I think roughly about 4,000, 5,000, 5,000 miles, so between two meters. That's how we see it. My guess is that we should be very close to 10,000 miles by the 31st March, 2023. As of all the supply I'm talking about, it actually happens.
00:46:15
Speaker
But I don't see a problem at once. This formula would be like the Bharati Omni kind of a formula that's used. It feels like bigger version of Tata is staying there. Somewhere between one to total category formula. So now it's more like a good segment.
00:46:35
Speaker
That is what we are targeting. Something that can be used for delivering washing machines or refrigerators. Yes, it can be used to increase it, right? So right now, where I'm struggling is that how do I mean the need of ITC and HUL? How do I mean the need of IKEA? The need of large, say, in the e-cover segment like TV, fridge and all. That is when we don't have the solution yet.
00:46:58
Speaker
But I think by having this kind of product in our portfolio, we'll be able to infuse the use case of the same customers in a way. Okay, okay, okay. All of these consumer product companies are also potential customers for you, be it FMCG or white coat companies or even say mobile phone companies you would also need. Definitely. The moment you have a full resolution support, the whole it opens a huge opportunity, a number of currently in the photo segment. Today,
00:47:28
Speaker
the demand of 4 million is 7 times of 3 million, right? So, if you previously suggested that we are facing in the 3 million market, if you go to 4 million market, when we are requiring not 500,000 vehicles per month, we require much more work about that.
00:47:44
Speaker
And then the whole supply story has to be much more staged up. So let's see what happens. That's the part I am not really confident about, I would say, in India. Finding a supplier. Finding a good supplier of a good product with a very good afternoon service and a network where they could work with us in practice cities in India. That is the part is the only thing that I'm losing my sleep on.
00:48:12
Speaker
Like you told me, it costs you an extra expense of 30 lakhs for every 30 vehicles you add. So how do you plan to optimize that?
00:48:24
Speaker
So a large part of that goes in the lease security deposit. So it's not like an actual expense, but it's more like a capital lock-in, which is refundable. Yeah, because in Bangalore, you have 10 months. So we are negotiated to bring that 10 months to, you know, three months and six months by themselves. That's a huge
00:48:46
Speaker
One third of the cost is that, and if you can reduce by one third, that's one part of it. Second part is that we've also learned in terms of the hardware cost. Earlier we used to give order of 10 large, 10 chargers, 5 chargers. Just now in this break time, I approved 200 chargers right now. So we have scaling up and we already see a 10% cost coming down by using full scale. So rather than doing a one charger,
00:49:15
Speaker
we do a pan India kind of tyre.
00:49:17
Speaker
and we supply so that's the second we are literally 10 percent and then we are also taking we have not yet applied for the subsidy there's a 10 lakh of subsidy you get for every charging how we wait for public use since we are allowing our charging have to be used for any public if you get 10 lakh subsidy you could not further reduce so I'm pretty confident if I do all three measures there we can reduce that by anyway easily by 50 to 60 percent what about serving more vehicles per charging point
00:49:49
Speaker
That is easy, because what is happening is, right now, all our vehicles, this 30 charging vehicles are being charged at the same time. So, after largely these vehicles are used for in the day time for delivery, and the night time is used for charging.
00:50:07
Speaker
By the daytime, the entire charging hub stays empty. So that's why we are tying up with battery shopping centers because battery shopping centers people use in the daytime. So we were able to recover costs from battery shopping centers. So what we'll do is while our cost per square feet in the capex part will still be in a per square feet fixed cost, our revenue will be always in terms of measure in terms of number of units you are able to push.
00:50:35
Speaker
in the 24 hours period, right? Well, night part we already have solved it. We have to solve for day part and that's why we are dying of with practice shopping centers on the fast charging by people to give that day time solution also. So once you have night time, day time on operating the charging have a 25 by 7 operations, then you will be able to push more number of kilowatt hour into the
00:50:55
Speaker
vehicle from the same charging happens. Hence, your revenue will be much higher that way. So I'm pretty confident we can reduce the cost, capex part, and we can increase the revenue by providing all the solution. Plus, by opening it up to public again, that's like data utilization. Correct.
00:51:12
Speaker
So we'll convert more of all our charging apps and start locations to go to public. We are just working on the app now. Our version of apps should be ready by the end of March. So at that time, it will be ready almost 1,000 charging points will be live with smart chargers, all available on our app and also through our partner app also. So whether you use other people app or our app, you are limited to use our charging.
00:51:39
Speaker
in the
00:52:00
Speaker
process is all that happens to the app. So that's something that is a work in progress. In parallel, we are building the charging point anyway, which we are using for the capital use. So while the technology development is happening in parallel, we are building the network day by day and week by week and month by month. Okay. Okay. Tell me about the space now. Let's zoom back a little. So who are the other players who are also doing this EV focused logistics service? Yeah.
00:52:26
Speaker
Also, there are many players who have been a strong player in the ICE vehicle logistics players. And they also want to do EV so that I'll categorize them as whether some Mahindra logistics, whether it's a test transport, whether it's a kogos. They have traditionally been ICE based players and now they are also converting some of the fluids to electric vehicles.
00:52:51
Speaker
Then there are pure play Eevee players who have only Eevee fleet, they only provide Eevee as a service. It's more like a zip, Zingo, Smarty, others also there. Lightning Logistics is there. So there are players also like that who only do Eevee. So what kind of competition is there in this space?
00:53:11
Speaker
There is only in the place, do they do help? Two-wheeler, three-wheeler, four-wheeler. Mahindra logistics, I think zip focuses more towards two-wheeler than only Rancia. Lightning logistics does largely two-wheeler, largely in south focus. Our philosophy has been we will do all four factors, whether it's two-wheeler, three-wheeler or four-wheeler.
00:53:31
Speaker
I will also do the Pan-India kind of thing. So we will not be purchasing as a north player of the south, then the west, and we are the Pan-India player. And wherever customer wants us to grow and expand with them, we are willing to go and expand with them. So that's been having our positioning segment. And I think none of these other EV logistic startups are building their own charging infra. They would be using charging service providers.
00:53:58
Speaker
They are using service providers. They are using, they are coming to us also for using the charging providers. But even if they are building it, they are always taking it from a captive perspective. What is by requirement? They are taking this more from a, what is the level of requirement? So let's say if this is the place where all the warehouses are there, then whether it's a moving or any other providers, they have to provide this kind of services. So you're essentially doing more full stack approach.
00:54:24
Speaker
That is the only way going to work. Unless you take a full stack approach, unless you take an ecosystem approach, you are not going to win this EV play. Because there are many play in the EV ecosystem, right? There's OEM play, there's a charging play, there's a technology play, there's a service play. But the moment you do an element of it and say, I don't need to do a charging play.
00:54:49
Speaker
or a long period of time, the path to profitability will always be a question mark. If you say, I will only do delivery, I will also solve the driver problem, I will also solve the map problem, I will also solve the chart problem, you will learn about money in delivery business. So you have to look at the problem in totality, you have to offer the solution in totality to that customer. And that's how we have thinking about it.
00:55:20
Speaker
So like you have about 750 vehicles in your fleet, how does that compare to other players? The top players have what kind of numbers? I'll give you the other way of thinking it. We got the number one buyer of Piaggio electric vehicle in the good segment. So we are the number one customers of all the volumes that they have sold. We have procured about 25 to 30% of the vehicle, the pan India level.
00:55:45
Speaker
Number two supplies, Altegreen, we are like 30% to 40% purchases of that oil product they have sold. Oiler, we are almost like 50%. So of the products that we have decided to onboard and we have decided to put our, we are the number one in the segment. But when it comes to actual number, you know, Zipp has been there for the last four years and they are largely tool it's focus. So the actual count perspective,
00:56:13
Speaker
I think there will be a higher side than us. By the end of next year, based on your plans, I think you would probably beat everyone else.
00:56:24
Speaker
We will beat in terms of revenue and profitability for sure. So, for me, vehicle is just a most skilled figure to achieve a revenue target. It is not
Ambitious Revenue Targets for 2025-26
00:56:36
Speaker
an L in itself. So, if even the composition of the fleet becomes very important, what is the percentage of two-year, three-year and four-year segment?
00:56:44
Speaker
and then accordingly your revenue number will become what was taken and all. So that's why for me, we want to be number one layer from a revenue perspective and profit perspective. That will be for sure. I think because for all the customers that we serve, we are the number one way of looking things is from an OEM perspective. Plants that we deploy, we are the number one customer for them.
00:57:06
Speaker
on all our customers, big flipkart, big basket, big run, big plans, we are the number one area provider for them, right? So both from a demand perspective and the supply perspective, you can correlate and say, we are the number one player from the industry.
00:57:28
Speaker
That means I'm only talking about I have preferably chosen only the OEMs that we are working with and I have preferably chosen only those brands as a customer that you work with.
00:57:43
Speaker
The other way to look at is if you're not working with the top OEMs, if you're not working with the top suppliers, do I even consider them as a competition or not? That's how I see it. I think why we are number one, that's why we are number one.
00:57:59
Speaker
say a couple of years down the line, what do you think your revenue mix will be? Because when source of revenues, of course, what the e-commerce and other companies give you for logistics service, but then you would also be getting revenue from the charging stations, right? So what do you think you'd be looking at your revenue mix as? In financial year 2025-26, we will have a revenue of $1 billion.
00:58:27
Speaker
that revenue will come from four businesses. One is a delivery business and that will be large part of the revenue because we have got some customer willingness to pay and customer volume is highest as well. Charging business is our enabled business for us that we will do it anyway but rather than becoming a cost center we want to make it a
00:58:51
Speaker
reference center. That's the word too. So that would be other business for us. Then on third business, we will also take out the financing business. I know actually why. Because right now we are doing all for good. We are giving all the leads to the financing companies. We are providing all the collateral services for the financing companies. But there's a hidden intention behind it that ultimately become a payable service.
00:59:16
Speaker
We will start charging those financial companies either the commission fees or the platform fees. So tax is the financing thing they will start a business with. And let's follow up which is a platform business where whether it's an insurance company, whether it's an OEM company, they are helping, we are giving them DCO. So we will give them the commission fees.
00:59:36
Speaker
We already getting some of the insurance company. When you provide a database analysis and insights to OEMs or the financiers, we'll do some kind of that, that platform fees as well. There's a whole platform fees will also become a part. There will be a huge part of it, but when it comes to marginal ability, delivery will be the lowest margin, but the highest revenue contributor. Platform fees will be the thing with the highest margin contributors. Who have ecosystem perspective on a one billion dollar with a very good
01:00:05
Speaker
double digit profit we margin, we want to make this come. Amazing. Okay. The Fintech play sounds pretty interesting to me. Like you could actually become a Fintech with pick up funds at say 7, 8, 10% and then they let us out at 15, 16% and run the Fintech in-house. In fact, we are doing that and I will tell you also what we are doing. Why? From first of April, we are
01:00:32
Speaker
See actually we are startup because of startup. Both me and Raghav comes with the experience of 20 years plus me coming from energy and mobility space and Raghav Jan who was my hostel mate, chemical engineering department mate and IIT mate. He comes from a private equity background. Between Raghav can we understand the landscape of energy, mobility and fatality in a very good way.
01:00:58
Speaker
and hence some of the reason that we are taking at one year of startup is beyond imagination of any other startup for example we have to think about how we are thinking about it from first of April we are reorganizing the entire organization of the company
01:01:14
Speaker
So moving will be a platform company. Under the platform company, there will be two subsidiaries. One substitute will be a charging charge code, that's called moving charge. And other company will be a FinTech company, Finserv. And within the FinTech, we may go for NVFC ourselves.
01:01:32
Speaker
if we don't look for that and we say that anyway we are having data, anyway we are issuing demand, anyway we are providing all services for that, what is the value added that that that for say only value that the value of the capital, hence we are creating this other structure so when we go to investor anyone who was interested in the FinTech part that's okay you become part of you you take part in this in the FinServer
01:01:59
Speaker
Similarly, infrastructure play we are taking in a very different way. A lot of oil and gas companies, infrastructure companies, they are much more comfortable with a long period than infrastructure part. They don't mind owning an asset and which you can pay a stable return. So we'll sell that infra part to them and say you can come and participate and do that thing.
01:02:18
Speaker
whether the platform team is always going to talk because whether the platform will serve the contract of the e-commerce player. How much fundraise do you need to do to hit the 1 million top line in which you are planning? See, our thinking is that we will need 200 to 300 million dollars to build this company in a proper way. But it doesn't have to all come in one way, one time. See, I can easily make it a 7,000, yeah about 5,000 company and make it a profitable company.
01:02:46
Speaker
is very easy. Well, at the EU, the economy is level. It's a we are profitable today.
01:02:53
Speaker
Today, on a month-on-one basis, we are able to generate enough revenue and enough cash to meet the requirement of all the driver's salary, to pay for all the EMI of the lease vehicles, to pay for all our charging expense and the infra rent, everything. Yeah, I personally break even. Exactly. And despite that, we are making some profit also at the operational level.
01:03:19
Speaker
to pay for some of the fixed cost on the salary part of the technology team that is what we have done.
01:03:25
Speaker
If you just continue it, we can make a profitable company by having 5,000 vehicles. But that's not our vision. Our vision is we are here to be the leader in the EV ecosystem provider. To become the leader, you need to have a significant presence in a city by city approach. Hence, we feel that we should be commanding about 30 to 40% market share of those business.
01:03:49
Speaker
whether it's a business of delivery, or any use case. So delivery is just a use case that we are taking down. But as air flows, battery prices come down, you will see more use cases coming and be ready for the EV adoption. And we have no innovation going into the use case. So we are not married to a delivery. We are married to a rectification of the use case, right? Right, right, right.
01:04:14
Speaker
A lot of capital is goes in there. That's the part in terms of vehicle deployment and the infra development part of it.
01:04:22
Speaker
Second part is we only have small tech team, we only have 15 team based out of Bangalore. It is led by Governor Science, 2004 batch, IIT, I am left on cold mind list, XM issue, X Google. One of the best, one of the best bird manager in the country. Salesman led the entire road map. We have to support her with 80 member technology team. So a lot of money will go in terms of development of all the data science of machine learning, AI and R.
01:04:48
Speaker
So we want to be a new age company and not become a logistics company. We are not solving the logistics problem because I think the logistics problem has been solved by other companies. The problem that we are solving is the electrification problem. How do we accelerate the EV adoption in the country? That is the problem that we are solving. And whatever we need to work upon the solution, we will work upon the solution. Right?
01:05:14
Speaker
So, that's where we are. So, this is a big ecosystem play and technology is a big enabler. And that's why we are investing. This is why we have a lot of companies today. Because we are investing a lot in terms of technology development at this time.
01:05:31
Speaker
Right. And that's why we would be our last main company for the next two, three years till we achieved that scale and our technology to develop all revenue for the minimum stream I talked about is stabilized and we are able to get good healthy revenue and good margin. So we definitely want to be a profitable company, but we want to be a profitable company at scale and be the number one leader in the EV space in this ecosystem. That is what we aspire for.
01:06:02
Speaker
You've raised about 6.5 million so far, right? No, Akshay. We have raised about 40 crores, 45 crores, something like that. So that will be about 5 million dollars.
01:06:15
Speaker
And this has been from how did the funders happen? By virtue of both of you, the funders would not have been so difficult, right? It has not been difficult. It has not been difficult. I told you the first. So we are done in tranches. We only raise funds when we need it. And we only raise the amount which we actually needed. Because of the confidence that we have that we get, we have access to capital any day we want to accept the capital.
01:06:41
Speaker
So we want to also the way we want to give the equity also in the face-wise manner. So when we raised round one, which was like pre-revenue, we raised about 5 crores at about pre-money 40 crores. And those were largely from individual French friends and families, right? All the people I have known.
01:07:00
Speaker
In July, we raised about 11.2 crores. That was also with largely in family offices. We raised about, at the admission, about 112.5 crores, pre-money. And then now in November, December, we raised about 25 crores, and at the admission of pre-money of 250 crores. This has also got H&Is and family offices.
01:07:26
Speaker
We can easily go for depending on how fast or slow you want to go. Every quarter we want to raise some money and we will keep increasing our numbers to give the leaf to the existing customers.
01:07:40
Speaker
I guess one year down the line, you'll need to do one big headline-grabbing kind of fundraise, right? Because once the four-wheeler opportunity, you feel confident that, yes, four-wheeler supply is reliable, then that would, essentially, that would be the only thing that you're waiting for. Once you're confident of that, then you can just press the pedal and go all out. You're right. So, see, in our next 12 to 15 months, we will need about $20 to $25 million.
01:08:08
Speaker
Now, whether we get this $25 million in one go, or we get in two different branches or three different branches, I don't know. But that is the capital we need to go by what we want to achieve. And I'm pretty confident that the interest that I see, especially in foreign investors in the AV space is huge. They want to work with mature people and who understand the sector now. That is a confident decade from us.
01:08:37
Speaker
Only thing that big capital is waiting for is some kind of traction. That is something you can't expedite. So that's what we are waiting for. They are all in touch with us. We are in touch with them. So I am pretty confident that this sector is very demanding. There are capitals, millions of dollars of capital, which is waiting to enter into the sector.
01:09:01
Speaker
If we can curate a business with an ecosystem approach, with a strong technology foundation, where there will be a clear path to profitability, I think access to those capitals should not be up. Tell me about how you built out a crack team. Like you have some very great people in your team. How did you do that? So one thing I've realized in my 20 years of professional journey, the success of any dream
01:09:31
Speaker
and converting the dream to reality is completely dependent on only one thing. And one thing is the strong team. So I have been very selective in choosing the EV100, like the first 100 members of my team, so that they are capable to take this company to wherever the company wants to go.
01:09:56
Speaker
Some people advise us if you are too early at stage to grow a company at this space, you need to hire less, take more responsibility yourself. My idea is that if I am working on the day-to-day issues, then probably I have not done the team building correct. If I am focusing on developing the technology roadmap, everyday basis, I have not done the job. If I am talking about business development or daily basis, I have not built my day. If I am talking about operations, so every element of this, I think in that way.
01:10:25
Speaker
If I am working and I am overworked, that means my team is under-resourced and understaffed. So our principle has been over-hiring and make me a hiring for the future of growth, future growth. Not like just meeting the current requirements, that's number two.
01:10:41
Speaker
In our network, I have worked in an energy industry just in the last four, five years, and electric vehicle has been a recent phenomenon. So it's not that if you ask me whether as a McKinsey consultant was advising future opportunities electric vehicle, I was not talking about that because I didn't see that happening. It's all started happening from 2015 onwards in the last five years and picking a very fast pace. And luckily my journey in electric vehicle started in that phase in India only.
01:11:12
Speaker
Everyone who is working in the electric vehicle space in the country somehow knows me and I know them. So I know who are the good people, which company, I have been observing them personally and various things. So I have reached out to all of them and so far I have got 100% traction on all the top leadership part who were asked to come and join with me. They have all come and joined with me.
01:11:33
Speaker
And what about drivers? How do you attract drivers? Because that will become a key challenge, right? If you want to like hit that seven and a half thousand number, then how will you get so many drivers? See, additionally, we thought it's a very easy problem solve and we signed the contract with all the manpower agencies and they said they'll provide the driver on time. Okay.
01:11:58
Speaker
Exactly, deep force, team leads, better plays. They realize they are completely disconnected with the game gun. They don't even know what is the real thing that they bother. If you ask any of those players what is the real thing they bother, they will say more money. But actually, it's not.
01:12:22
Speaker
What they are looking for is a very stable kind of company. Second, what they are looking for is a very consistent kind of company. So as a company principle, we have said every 10th of the month, they will get salary. Like we, all our employers get a salary on a certain date. Every driver of us will get a salary on 10th or one day before, but not on 11th. Second, we will not have any
01:12:53
Speaker
This whole debit system, this penalty, that penalty and all these things, where driver never knows how much money he has to make after the month. He can see on the app how much money he is going to make at the end of the month and he will get exact the same amount on 10th of every month. Like complete transparency. Complete transparency, calculations and complete transparency on timing.
01:13:19
Speaker
Those two has worked in our favor even though they are attracting their people. The first drivers that we hired, they have become our champions of saying, oh, this is the company. They don't ask me to work too much over time. They give you a certain time every day, same place.
01:13:39
Speaker
based on your home location. So that is something that is working as a word of mouth is working in our favor. And that's how retention, we are able to retain our drivers in a very good way. And also we are able to give them care, progressive opportunity by them not only becoming a driver, in order to become a driver, that's fine. They can have a better work-life balance, but they want to progress in life and they want to become a driver component. We also make them facilitate to make it happen.
01:14:11
Speaker
Because for me, sustainable mobility has no meaning, unless it is backed by sustainable livelihood of those drivers. In India, unfortunately, a driver is often a very neglected and harassed community.
01:14:30
Speaker
If you go to a car, not to any, I'm not naming O-line roads as such, but I'm saying you go to any O-line Uber driver, you will not find a single happy driver there. They always feel they are cheated. They always feel that all the payment is non-transparent, and they always feel what company has committed was always an Uber commitment, and they're always under the river.
01:14:59
Speaker
Now, I don't want to go into details of what went wrong in there, but it's just the same terms I'm telling which I get. Because as a part of, I don't drive, so I always take a full hour or a new spot depending on the city I am. And my favorite part is interviewing a driver.
01:15:18
Speaker
And that's where I get all the insights on the human economics, what's happening in the industry. All my insights is based on those interviews with the drivers. The impact that I want to create is not only on the environment part, but the impact I want to create is also on the people's life.
01:15:37
Speaker
especially who are down to that and especially the lower strata of Ingaon. Those are the people I really want to make a difference. Jordan, what is the role of data and machine learning in the business? Like one part obviously you told me is to make drivers perform better. What else? So there are four kinds of data that we use. One is on the vehicle or to keep back, right? So
01:16:02
Speaker
unless you collect the data on so we could have our own hardware and we collect the vehicle later in terms of speed, location and a lot of battery data like state of the charge. Now what typically if you book an Uber, what Uber essentially does is it matches the demand with the supply. That's why all the GFS thing is that.
01:16:24
Speaker
In our algorithm, the way we want to do the allocation of the trip is based on the supply of the vehicle and the driver, the bar allocation and the state of the charge of the vehicle.
01:16:36
Speaker
And we just understood each other vehicle we want to decide that it should go for delivery or it should go for charging stations. Unless you have data that comes from the vehicle, we will not be able to do that. So the more operational efficiency becomes a very important part of it. That's the one part of it. Second part is on the vehicle maintenance part of it, right?
01:16:57
Speaker
Now vehicle gives lot of signal how the battery is degrading, how the is performing at all. And it will give much signals in terms of whether the vehicle is ready for going for vehicle maintenance or not. So that would maintenance and settling what preventing a battery we want to do the data that's in the vehicle side.
01:17:16
Speaker
I also talked about in terms of a multistakeholder platform where we want to share the data of vehicle and the driver to the financiers to the insurance to make sure that we are able to reduce the risk from that's a multistakeholder part.
01:17:31
Speaker
Third is on the Net1 development, let's say we applied to two vehicles in dairy NCR, now right now one way of finding the charging for location interdependence is one we have taken is where the demand is right, for example okay if there is an Amazon Flipkart where I was there we are going to put a charging for there. But let's say I have a data of how what is the trip profile of 2000 vehicles that is running on the dairy NCR on a daily basis.
01:17:57
Speaker
And if you map that key profile, you will say which are the red zone, which are the green zone, which are the orange zone. The red zone is where the weight is strong. It would be the maximum where it's going from Delhi to Malaykara. Heat map. Heat map. Heat map. Exactly. So based on the heat map, you decide what is the right place to put the charging.
01:18:19
Speaker
right otherwise I will become otherwise I would like other CPUs you will likely find a place and you would have charging infrastructure please regards come and use our charging infrastructure because the world is using. So we want to be electric vehicle we want to be a data and technology driven company electric vehicle
01:18:36
Speaker
Generally throws more data compared to ice vehicle the way it is designed and given that it is linked to a charger and charger also throws lot of data in terms of house charge when it is charged and all. So if a government
01:18:50
Speaker
The real machine learning and AI is when you combine the data of what's coming from the vehicle, what's coming from the charger, and what's coming from the driver. Based on that, you can make some reason on what is the driver incentive program that you can design based on how the driver designs the vehicle. How can you schedule a better maintenance of the vehicle based on the data?
01:19:13
Speaker
How can you design the algorithm and optimization route of the vehicle based on the state of the charge? How can you design a network of building the charging infra? How can you solve for financing and insurance data? That entire thing will be based on the whole machine learning of the AI part of it. So, are you doing your routing yourself or is the routing done by the customer?
01:19:39
Speaker
So, since we are currently working with all the top brands, they already have their own routing and search and link paths, right? But what's also happening actually is that a lot of D2C brands are coming up, right? So far, we are not focused on that. But that one in Biryani companies are coming. A lot of many digital companies are coming, right? They are good in terms of making the good product.
01:20:04
Speaker
And they are creating a mechanism where you can order the product from the website or the app. And then they are responsible for delivery of that product to the customer. That is the part they don't know.
01:20:20
Speaker
What we are telling them is we will give you a solution that after the booking is made to the website, it automatically flows through our server through API integration. From that part to the delivery part, we will take our entire thing for you.
01:20:38
Speaker
You focus on making the best biryani, you focus on making the best bijal. How the biryani gets delivered or whatever you're making, right? Gets delivered, maybe it will take the entire responsibility to enter it for ourselves. But we are building that capability, that promise yet we'll knock it out. The idea is, we want to reduce the friction of our customers to switch to electric as much as possible.
01:21:09
Speaker
What do you think is the role of government in helping you reach the 1 billion top line target that you have? It's a huge thing, right? For the last 2-3 years, central government has come up with a Fame 2 policy which talks about giving subsidy of 10,000 crores to the segment. And we are already a beneficiary whenever we purchase a new vehicle, we are getting the Fame 2 subsidy for us.
01:21:33
Speaker
On top of that, there are states like Delhi government and Maharashtra government who are giving on top of that fiscal incentives. But more importantly, they are giving non-fiscal incentives by giving a mandate to the aggregators to switch to electric.
01:21:50
Speaker
Now Delhi government has come up with saying that by mass, 23, 25% of the aggregator fleet should be electric. That aggregator means a lot of work. And so, aggregator means anyone who is using an app that ensures a people or a product gets delivered from point A to point B.
01:22:15
Speaker
If you integrate that, it means it's Ola, Uber, Zomato, Swiggy, Domino's Pizza, any app. What Zomato does? So I don't ensure a product gets delivered from point A to point A? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Government Mandates and EV Adoption
01:22:28
Speaker
Or even let's say Portal. Portal, don't be for sure. So all of this has to be avoided by this, right? Now, when you have so much of supply constraints, so much of expertise missing in the sector, and government puts a mandate, it will speed up the process.
01:22:43
Speaker
Because so far, at least some of them have been licked, like Flipkart, Amazon. We will see where it comes to it. So we want to do that government push on the mandate front is going to be a big enabler. And the subsidies they are providing, they are allowing the electric vehicles to enter into the special zone where the typical business vehicles are not allowed. These are all small things that matter.
01:23:13
Speaker
And it creates a barrier for ICE vehicle to operate in a seamless manner as a filter vehicle. So I think the way Delhi government is pushing, the Maestro government is pushing, we see that these are the states who will lead the EU adoption and the good part is that we are already present in the states. So we are only beneficiaries and will continue to be beneficiaries for a scale up for
Call for Electrification Focus
01:23:39
Speaker
that. So we want to continue the momentum from a government perspective that
01:23:43
Speaker
All the central government and the state government focus should be on electrification and that is required for next five years to further exclude the introduction of the country.
Exploring More Shows on Podium
01:23:53
Speaker
If you like the founder thesis podcast, then do check out our other shows on subjects like marketing, technology, career advice, books, and drama. Visit the podium.in, that is, d-h-e-n-b-o-d-i-u-m.in for a complete list of power shows.
Podcasting Journey and Advice
01:24:20
Speaker
Before we end the episode, I want to share a bit about my journey as a podcaster. I started podcasting in 2020 and in the last two years, I've had the opportunity to interview more than 250 founders who are shaping India's future across sectors.
01:24:36
Speaker
If you also want to speak to the best minds in your field and build an enviable network, then you must consider becoming a podcaster. And the first step to becoming a podcaster starts with Zencaster, which takes care of all the nuts and bolts of podcasting, from remote recording to editing to distribution and finally monetization.
01:24:57
Speaker
If you are planning to check out the platform, then please show your support for the founder thesis podcast by using this link zen.ai founder thesis. That's zen.ai founder thesis.