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Science Communicators of TikTok: Nicholas Carbone (@DigThePast) - Ep 97
417 Plays4 years ago
On this episode of A Life in Ruins Podcast, we chat with Tiktok personality and recent graduate Nicholas Carbone. We start off by talking about his earliest experiences with archaeology and his inspiration for pursuing the discipline. We then chat about Titanic and how some of us were not allowed to watch the second VHS (yes we are that old). Nicholas then discusses his field school and other archaeological opportunities afforded to him during his undergraduate degree. We finish off by discussing his TikTok channel and why he is inspired to teach people about the past.
Transcripts
For rough transcript head over to A Life in Ruins Episode 97. (https://archpodnet.squarespace.com/ruins/97)
Literature Recommendations
- Connecticut’s Indigenous Peoples: What Archaeology, History, and Oral Traditions Teach Us about Their Communities and Cultures by Dr. Lucianne Lavin
- Becoming an Archaeologist: A Guide to Professional Pathways by Joe Flatman
- Anthropologist explains ADHD, Depression, and Imposter Syndrome (Short Film) by David Ian Howe
- Guest Contact Info: Nicholas' TikTok: @DigThePast
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to episode 97 of the Life in Ruins podcast, where you investigate the careers of those living a life in ruins. I am your host, Connor Jonnan, and I am joined by my co-host, David Howe. Carlton will not be joining us on this podcast, and I can't even poke fun at him for it because he has a very legit excuse for not being
Guest Introduction: Nicholas Carbone
00:00:33
Speaker
here.
00:00:33
Speaker
For today's episode, we are joined by Nicholas Carbone, an undergraduate in anthropology at the University of Connecticut and TikTok personality. How are you doing on this lovely, lovely day? I'm doing great. Thank you guys for having me. Yeah, man. I think I told you this when I messaged you, but my mom grabbed her phone, brought it to me when I was visiting one weekend and was like, hey, this kid, you should do your videos like him. They're better. And I was like, God damn it. Oh, shit. Sorry, Chris. Hang on.
00:01:02
Speaker
And I was like, damn it. So yeah, they're great, dude. And I saw like you posted two videos and like the next day you had like a hundred thousand subs. And I was like, well, that was insane. For the record, I think yours are better because they're like funny. No, no, like that was that was just absolutely surreal.
Going Viral on TikTok
00:01:20
Speaker
I posted that video. It was the one about the Boylston Street fish weir. And I went to bed that night and I had five followers and
00:01:28
Speaker
like no views. I woke up the next morning with a million and a half. And that was just a weird day. Wow. Wait, it's a million and a half now. A million and a half views, not followers. I was like, wow, good for you.
00:01:46
Speaker
So your TikTok obviously deals with prehistory and topics like that.
Childhood Inspiration for History
00:01:54
Speaker
Where did this love of the past come from?
00:01:59
Speaker
Can you trace that like back to your childhood or anything like that? Definitely. So I was definitely a history kid. I traced my origin story with archeology back to when I was about seven years old, somebody let me watch the movie Titanic probably shouldn't have at seven. Um, but yeah, so I watched that movie and just became like really infatuated with the Titanic. Just like really, really got really into it. And it was pretty cool.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah. It was the only movie I would watch like ever for like a solid year. I wouldn't watch like any other movie and I like drew like I'm in like second grade. I was like drawing girls. What was that? Oh, no, not French girls. Uh, no, I would draw these like vivid, like, like, like pictures of like the Titanic sinking and it would like freak out my parents.
00:02:55
Speaker
So I think that was a very formative experience, the concept of, I think I was just really fascinated by the idea that there was this ship that used to be really lively and inhabited, and now it's at the bottom of the Atlantic and is just abandoned.
00:03:11
Speaker
has been left a shell. I got interested in history, too, from my grandfather. He was always into World War II and that kind of thing. I moved into a house, like a new house when I was a kid as well, and it was on top of a hill.
00:03:29
Speaker
And the foundation was from the 1920s, like it was like a newer build, but the foundation was from like the 1920s. And one day I was playing in the backyard and like on the hill, I found this like lump of coal and I was like really fascinated by it. So I ran inside and like asked my dad, I was like, like, why is there coal in the backyard? You know, as from when, like, you know, the house in the 20s used to be heated by a coal furnace. And I was just so like.
00:03:57
Speaker
fascinated by that. I would spend hours in the backyard digging up coal and putting it in plastic Ziploc bags and just keeping it in my room. I had this whole collection. It was just so fascinating to me. And then when I was little later on, I read the Percy Jackson series, if you're familiar with that. I just read those last year. Oh, yeah.
00:04:20
Speaker
I just went on a bender and read all of them. They're fantastic. No, they're great books. Yeah, so that got me into Greek mythology, and which got me into ancient Greece, which got me into just classical antiquity in general. And I've loved that period ever since.
Changing Majors to Anthropology
00:04:33
Speaker
And then, yeah, so my interest in history developed from there, and subsequently my interest in archaeology stemmed from my interest in history. Very cool. I think the Titanic movie does a really good job of showing
00:04:46
Speaker
like obviously the wreck and showing archaeology and how it preserved and stuff. I thought that they really did an excellent job at that and the movie and kind of inspired folks. I'm glad it inspired folks like you to pursue it further. Also, I wasn't allowed to watch the second VHS because there was too much death.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah. Right. It was two, two VHSs. I don't remember seeing it. I remember seeing it and my parents making me close my eyes at that scene or one scene. And then like, I just don't remember any of the movie other than violence. I need to watch it again. But is at the end, is there like, did they show you the rec or something?
00:05:24
Speaker
It's actually at the beginning, too, because it starts in the 1980s, and they go down in the submarine, and it shows you the wreck in the submarine. But it was funny. Whenever I would watch it, I would just skip to the end where the boat was sinking. I wouldn't care about the plot at all.
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah. That's the part that my parents were like, it was just like to mortality inducing or something. You know, people like jumping off the back and getting like speared by the, you know, there's some, I have to watch this. Yeah. Yeah. I really don't think I remember any of it. I can have to watch that. I was going to say though, so you're putting coal into Ziploc bags. So I want the record to reflect that Nicholas Carbone is excited about carbon. Yup, exactly.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if carbona and Italian means carbon. I can't remember. It does. I can verify that. It does. Okay, cool. I was around Italian a lot when I was a kid, so it's just like a little bit.
00:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, I guess you're from Boston, right? I'm actually, I'm from Connecticut. I'm currently living in Boston now though. Okay. Yeah. How do you like that? I mean, I grew up in the Northeast. It's what actually my tangent here was going to be that you have all that cool stuff in your backyard. It's always a little interesting to me out East. There's so much
Unveiling New England's Hidden History
00:06:41
Speaker
archeological history. I mean, post 1492, a little like historically, um, and then like out West, it's not so much, you know, and like,
00:06:50
Speaker
What was that like as a kid? And like, I remember going to Paul Revere's house in Boston and stuff all the time. Yeah. So that's what's interesting to me about New England, archaeology in general, is that like people conceive of New England as being this really old part of the country. Right. Like it was, you know, the Puritans and Plymouth colony and whatever. But at the same time, like people don't conceive of it as having an ancient past, really. Like.
00:07:16
Speaker
Because it's really easy to miss with all the suburban sprawl. You feel very disconnected from the ancient past of the place. Which is why I love doing New England archaeology is because it reminds people that this place has been here. It's just as old as everywhere else. It's just right under our feet if you know where to look.
00:07:40
Speaker
That's what we had Heather Rockwell on a couple of episodes back and I will figure out which one that is. But yeah, she studies the small subset of which is the Paleo-Indian period of New England, which is even a smaller niche than even just prehistory of New England. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's cool. So there's a lot of... Do you feel like you're on the cutting edge sometimes because folks don't do a lot of that kind of research?
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so I've I've personally never worked on like any like any like pre contact sites, but I have like been around like, you know, like I've been in the lab and like they talk about it and it's like, you know, and like we have all the, you know, a bunch of stuff in the lab, like full of artifacts and and whatever. And it's a yes, I feel very like immersed in it.
00:08:31
Speaker
Yes, I mean I've never done any like really any hard research on pre contact yet, but I would like to eventually the video you posted about like the the fishery that was prehistoric where I'm sorry pre contact was like
00:08:46
Speaker
Pretty sick. I did not, I'd never heard of that. And I was like, whoa. And also I was like, this kid is screwed in. That was a really good video. Thank you. Yeah. So that's, that's the thing that I think what resonated about that video, at least for me was like, people don't think of like, cause like, that's the thing like Boston's an old city and like it's like one of the oldest cities in the United States. But at the same time, you don't think of it as being.
00:09:10
Speaker
an ancient place, right? So I think people were just kind of, when I made that video, I think the reason it was popular is that people were struck by the fact that even in the middle of the city, there's ancient archeological heritage from 5,000 years ago, right beneath the center of downtown. And I think that's partly what I love to do with my TikTok is highlight history in places where people don't think of it as existing.
00:09:37
Speaker
Right. Yeah. That's awesome, man. So transitioning, you watched Titanic digging up coal in your backyard. You're drawing these, these really intense drawings of ships and things like that. What ultimately led you to continue studying that and go to a undergrad? And did you initially go for history in archeology when you first went?
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah, so it's funny. I actually initially went into college for political science with the mind that I was going to go into like public policy or like work in politics. Cool. And then about during my sophomore year, I just was like, I'd rather stab my eyeballs out than do that. Was that around like 2016 ish 20 or 20?
00:10:21
Speaker
It was 2020 about, yeah. Okay. That would definitely do it for me. Yeah. So that was about actually, so here's the unfortunate thing is that it was about spring 2020. I switched my major into anthropology and spring 2020, it was like COVID was just
00:10:37
Speaker
ratcheting up. Immediately, all of my classes were moved online, and I was online purely for the next year. My first year of being in anthropology was totally online, and I didn't meet any of my professors, and it was just really awful in terms of getting to know people in the field.
00:10:59
Speaker
That's a pretty common thing we're hearing. And it's, it's interesting cause I mean, Carlton isn't here cause he's literally doing some PhD stuff
Challenges of Online Anthropology Studies
00:11:06
Speaker
right now. He went through it and he was teaching and a student in like the COVID, you know, times, but Connor and I were like already done with school and like, we didn't see it, but from the guests that we've had on and like chalked, like talked during the, like the in between segments, it's like,
00:11:23
Speaker
It's a crazy thing to deal with, and I'm like, any kid or any student right now in school, I'm proud of them. It's a lot of stuff.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think anthropology and archaeology is a really hands on or it's taught well when it's hands on, exciting, fun. And it's got to be so hard to actually get that out via Zoom or whatever you're doing. Like I, I would fall asleep and I love archaeology, but like I would, I would sleep through like an archaeology, like a prehistory lecture right now. And yeah, so I commend you folks who have gone through it and continue to go through it because it like, it just would not work for me, I don't think.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean I was taking archaeology labs like remotely trying to do lab lab stuff like how do you do like picking up skulls and stuff they would send us like PDFs like with like a data on it and they're like Oh like make sense of this or like, you know, they made it work somehow, but it was just really lousy Wow. Yeah. Well, could you have to do in like bio ant without being able to touch like the skulls? Yeah
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah. I had a human evolution class and it was like when we had like labs and we had to do a lot with like, you know, measuring bones and that kind of thing. And it was, they had to like figure out how to do that on, on like a PDF. Yeah. Dang. I remember sitting right next to Connor and our
00:12:50
Speaker
like picking, and my teacher was like passing us, not to rub it in, but like passing different hominid skulls. And we were like, you get to touch and like see them and stuff. And that's like the magic of it to me, but yeah, being able to do that on Zoom, I'm assuming, and then still be into it is, that's cool. Yeah. So do they make it, so how did you kind of keep your interest or was you just, were you just so interested in it that you just kind of kept pursuing it as, as part of it?
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I just I just love it, you know, and I just kind of I mean, at the same time, like, yes, having on classes online was was terrible. But at the same time, it was also nice because I didn't have to like leave my room before seven a.m. But yeah, no, like like learning wise and like education wise, it was definitely a detriment. Did you get to do a field school? I guess before that. OK. Oh, no, I actually did it this summer. 2021. OK. It was awesome.
Fieldwork Experience: Pequot Site
00:13:47
Speaker
Loved it.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah. I guess for the audience, like what kind of stuff you do. Yeah. So we were working on this site in mystic Connecticut. It is actually pretty amazing preservation wise. It was a single component. Pequot.
00:14:04
Speaker
domestic site that was hastily abandoned in 1637 during the Pequot War for obvious reasons. What happened was that we actually, not me, but my professor and his people he was working with found the site based on from a historical document left behind by an English soldier who had
00:14:29
Speaker
briefly mentioned it in this document where he was talking about, after this battle, they came across several houses and burned them. And going off of that, through battlefield archeology, he retraced exactly the site that he was talking about, which is really, really interesting.
00:14:52
Speaker
That's the fun thing about historical, like you got like written records and stuff to like match up. And I assume when those match up, you're like, well, yeah, yes, it's wild. And actually, what's what's really crazy about it is the site was so like it was on the battlefield. And so like all around the battlefield, they found like musket shot and arrow like these like brass arrow points that were like bent backwards, like fully bent backwards from hitting something.
00:15:20
Speaker
Damn. Yeah. I was excavating the shell middens at the site, and even in the float samples that I was doing in the lab, we would find impacted musket shot, like bird shot, the small little...
00:15:35
Speaker
pellets. Yeah. So we know it was it was it was defended. It was not inhabited at the time. It was attacked, but it was defended is what we think. So it's pretty it's a it's a once in a lifetime site. It was a bit heavy working there, I would say, because of like the context of it. Right. But no, it was it was really I'm grateful that it was my first experience in archaeology because it's just such a and that's the thing, too, is it was completely
00:16:04
Speaker
It's never been plowed or anything. So it was undisturbed. It's just like the single moment in time, more like frozen, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's cool, man. Let's end the segment on that because that's pretty cool. And then the next one, let's get more into what you did in undergrad.
00:16:22
Speaker
Welcome back to episode 97 of the Life Renewance Podcast. I'm lost without our Captain Carlton, but I'm trying my best. I'm here with Nicholas Carbone, and we are actually, he told me in the DMs when I hit him up about this that you actually did listen to the podcast before, or you do actively. Before we get into some New England stuff, I want to know what is that like, and I'm sorry.
00:16:45
Speaker
Well, actually, I found I found you guys because I originally listened to the the dirt. OK. And Carlton went on the dirt one time and pitched and pitched it. But he was like, he was I found out about you guys through Carlton going on the dirt. And I've been listening ever since. I love you guys. Yeah, no, I love this podcast.
00:17:05
Speaker
I think, uh, I think Carlton described David's style podcasting style is Joe Rogan or he takes like the PBS kind of approach and interview, which was, which I thought was hilarious. Yeah, that's, that's cool to hear. It's like weird. We started the podcast what 2019. So we haven't really gone to like a conference or Connor and I haven't seen other archeologists really.
00:17:32
Speaker
So it's gonna be weird when we go, because apparently people listen to it, so. We're gonna get a lot of hate. That's more what I'm getting at. You want to do it? So you were also given other opportunities during your undergraduate career to do archaeology. Specifically, it looks like you did some stuff in some more New World archaeology, kind of working in, I think it's in Connecticut, right? Yep. That independent study. Do you mind talking about that and what kind you did for that?
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah, so the
Ceramic Diversity Research
00:18:03
Speaker
independent study that I did, it was actually just a continuation of the field work that I did over the summer. We had hundreds of float sample bags to just go through, and I was doing that the entire semester. Because when we were excavating the shell mittens, we just kind of
00:18:23
Speaker
just bagged them all. And so I was going through and sorting all the soft shell clam and the oyster and the ceramics and the animal bones and the faunal stuff and all separate stuff into separate bags and weighing them and whatever. So that was kind of the tedious aspect of it, but I was also doing a bit of research as I was doing that. And so I was looking at the ceramic diversity at
00:18:51
Speaker
this site, because we were able to deduce a few different discrete individual households. At this site, there's about three of them, and each household had a shellmitten associated with it, so it was like the shellmitten of the house.
00:19:09
Speaker
each shell mitten, obviously, because they're different families, they had different waste disposal patterns and different habits. What I noticed when I was going through the bags was that there was a lot of diversity in the ceramic types that they were using. Some of the ceramics had shell temper in them, others had grit temper, others had no discernible temper. I just wanted to
00:19:35
Speaker
figure out why that was. Also, there was different design elements on some of them as well. But yeah, I just wanted to figure out what was accounting for the diversity. And I didn't get super far with it. The paper I wrote, I just pitched a bunch of different hypotheses as to why this could be... I mostly was like, oh, this
00:19:58
Speaker
the grit temper could have a different functional. Like it was purposeful for something. Yeah, better for some things than others. Or the different design elements could be different kinship networks or whatever. And again, I was working with a pretty limited sample size because there wasn't actually a ton of ceramics to come out of that site. So I was grasping at straws a little bit sometimes, but I had a fun time doing that.
00:20:25
Speaker
Sure. For the audience listening who's non-archaeologists, a shell mitten essentially is kind of just a dump, right? Like where they put the shells, they were like cracking open and then some junk. In the southeast here, you find dogs in them, you find people in them.
00:20:45
Speaker
Not that they were cracking open the people, but they just threw people in the dump sometimes. And then the word temper, right? That's like the stuff you put into pottery to bind it. And it's usually sand or shell or something like that. So yeah, that's a cool thing, man. Did you find any like thing, like what was your, the best takeaway for you? Like what'd you like most about it?
00:21:07
Speaker
So when I was sorting the bags, it was interesting because we'd find really tiny middle school stuff that you'd never get in a sifter. So I found a few of these Dutch glass trade beads from the 1630s. Nice. Yeah, I found, again, like I said, impacted musket shot and little
00:21:28
Speaker
bird bones and stuff. I personally liked working with the ceramics the most because it was just, I don't know, because it felt like someone touched this and made this and crafted this vessel and now I'm touching it. It's corny, but it's an emotional experience when there's 400 years separating you from this person who last touched it. It's cool.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. If Carlton was here, he would call arrowheads, deportments, ceramics. Because you can learn so much about ceramics, you can learn about the local environment.
00:22:05
Speaker
studying the temper, you can really date pretty well using OSL and things like that. What time they came from, like you said, there's those individual design aspects that are really, really interesting. Out West, at least where I was working in Wyoming, the whole state is described under brown wear, which is
00:22:28
Speaker
There's like no diversity out there. So it's cool to hear that there is that sort of diversity out there, and at least within the same site and within the same group of people. Yeah. No, New England, especially during the contact period, I have a lot of criticisms of the ceramic typologies, but it gets very convoluted and there's a lot of diversity around that time for a variety of different reasons.
00:22:54
Speaker
The only thing is that ceramics don't preserve terribly well in New England because of the weather here. I think it's just the constant freezing and thawing and also the fact that New England ceramics are relatively thin and they just shatter. There's bazillion pieces. You'd never find a full vessel.
00:23:14
Speaker
Do you guys get, uh, colon aware up there or is it not? I don't know. I don't think we get that. I mean, um, is that like a kind of, is that from the Southeast or is it? It is down here, especially on the coast. It's like, like European indigenous and African like pottery styles, like combined together. Oh, interesting. No, I've ever been, I gotta look more into that actually. It's interesting. Yeah, I guess it's probably cause there's more, I don't know. I don't know why it would be, I mean the African, sure it down south, but like the,
00:23:43
Speaker
indigenous. I don't know. But yeah, I always thought that was a whole coastal thing.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah, anyway, sorry, tangent. Connor, you're probably more on task than I am. Sorry, I looked at it two screens. So you also got opportunities to do stuff that is not specifically New England archaeology, specifically also worked in study of the Etruscan populations and kind of took a very different approach and studying something completely different than ceramic sherds and burials like that. So do you mind talking about that?
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, so that's kind of a funny story.
Exploring Etruscan Gender Roles
00:24:22
Speaker
When I was initially going into archaeology, I went in with the mind that I was going to do classical archaeology. I wanted to study the Mediterranean. The first research experience that I came across was this professor, and he was asking if anybody wanted to do a research project with him.
00:24:41
Speaker
And I said, yes, I'll do it. And I came up with this research question, and I applied for this grant. And he was my mentor, whatever. He was very hands-off experience. So I was pretty much just on my own doing this. And I was like, well, the Etruscans are pretty well known for gender, not equality, but women in Etruscan society were always
00:25:07
Speaker
regarded as like they had more positions of power and they had like a greater kind of stake in things. Whereas like, you know, the Romans are notoriously matriarchal. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so I wanted to figure out like, like if like the onset of like Roman rule in the in Etruria, that part of Italy where the Etruscans were would be like.
00:25:32
Speaker
detectable with the change in gender relations, if that makes sense. And I didn't really get super far with it. My project was kind of all over the place. I was looking at epitaphs and like burial goods and like language. I got really in the weeds and it was just a bit off more than I could chew and never even fully finished it completely. But it was it was fun. And then but that was then shortly afterwards, I realized I wanted to do North American archaeology after I finished that.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool dude. I think all of us like it's why we asked the dinosaur history kid question the beginning like we're all at some point every archaeologist goes through like I'm really hyped on Greek and Greece and Rome stuff forever like as a kid and then like you'll do it
00:26:18
Speaker
Like I wanted to do classics when I went to school and I was like, well that, I don't want to learn German. So I feel like there's like three categories. It's like Greek slash Roman, and then you have the Egyptians and then you have the Meso folks. So there's like all people that there's probably another one too, but it feels like folks. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, Oh, okay. I've seen this here. You know, I watched movies on this. So I would did gladiator, whatever, you know, whatever inspires you, but they're always,
00:26:46
Speaker
is it seems like you fall in those categories and you're like, oh, it's really complicated. It's really convoluted. And there's a lot of people in these disciplines. But if you were doing North American archaeology, like if you're doing it in the Plains, you were there's like so much research you can be doing. Obviously, you mentioned New England as well, that if you stay in North America and do prehistory or pre-contact
00:27:10
Speaker
Um, or even contact air stuff. There's a lot of research to be done out there. So that's a, that's a cry to all our listeners. Like please study North American archeology. Definitely. Yeah. I've told this to people that asked me these questions on Instagram a lot, but like you'd think there are some areas where like people haven't gone to, but like Connor, like your thesis kind of like proves it as well. Like people have been here for at least 10,000, 15,000 years. So it's like an upwards of 20,000 now, but.
00:27:38
Speaker
Someone's been in that spot and probably napped a flake. There's always something there. They just found a site in Connecticut, 12,500 years old, right along the banks of the Farmington River. It's called the Brian D. Jones site. It's found a couple of years ago now.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah. I'll have to check that out. I haven't heard of that yet. Cool. Very cool. So you obviously, yeah, you decided I want to do North American archaeology and then you actually got to work doing collections, which is something David and I and Carlton have all done or dabbled in. Yeah. Do you mind talking about that?
Artifact Classification Experience
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, so it was at this museum in Washington, Connecticut, called the Institute for American Indian Studies. And we were doing, it's like they had this big assemblage in their basement from this rock shelter in the same town called Woodruff Cave that was excavated in the 1970s, like throughout the 70s.
00:28:35
Speaker
They kind of like they bagged all of the like because like they were interested back then they were interested in finding like arrowheads and like, you know, like, you know, glamorous stuff. And then they kind of just threw all the debitage and like everything they didn't think was like super important in these big like paper bags. And this like left them in a box for like 50 years.
00:28:55
Speaker
And then, and then, uh, so I was applying to be an intern and they're like, Oh, like, you know, we got a job for you. We sort through, uh, this box of like moldy paper bags has been sitting here since the seventies. Yeah, sure. And so it was, it was cool. I got to like, sort through and like classify all this lithic, like lithic sabotage from this cave. You know, it's like dates from the, uh, I think it was like the early to late Woodland period.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. So it was like, you know, there's church and courts and whatever. I found like some pottery that got mixed in there sometimes. And yeah, there was actually, there was a couple like, you know, calcine, calcine bone. But yeah, I did that. And you know, that's kind of like my day to day work. I also helped or helped out around the museum. Like I would help assemble and disassemble exhibits. They, what else did I do? Oh, and then there was also a, this assemblage of like,
00:29:47
Speaker
like pottery that they had and like it needed to be sorted out and cross-mended and kind of just organized. So I helped with that too. So yeah, there's a lot of tedium, but what's archaeology if not tedium? Right. I think I probably
00:30:03
Speaker
say this at least every other podcast or not every other but in our bigger ones. Collections guys like listening if you're wondering what kind of job like you can get in archaeology or like what do I do like look for collections jobs and if you're at school like take any opportunity to do anything collections based because one there's like millions of art billions of artifacts that need to get sorted and like only so many archaeologists and so many tax dollars and like
00:30:29
Speaker
In Connor's case too, we did it because we needed money in grad school and got a job doing it, just being a tech. But then it ended up employing me for the last three years with a 401k and stuff like that. So it pans out for you. So good on you for doing that because that's a skill that a lot of people just overlook because they just want to go dig.
00:30:49
Speaker
I enjoyed collections. I did not mind the monotonous aspects of it because I thought it was pretty therapeutic, honestly. I had a lot of fun with all my people I was working with. They were all great. It's a good time doing collections. The amount of paper brown bags that are in basements that are actively molding and dying, that is
00:31:10
Speaker
Like Brian Schroeder, who's been on the podcast before, did his master's thesis on a collection that was in brown bags that was in the same sort of context that they wanted to look at all the bones, the bison bones. So they did the bison bones and they kept the lithics other places. And yes, there's always room and there's always work to be done in that sort of space. And there's money for it. Like David, David was well-funded doing that stuff. And yeah, highly recommend that to anyone out there.
00:31:40
Speaker
So do North American collections, then you'll be solid. And on that note, I think we're going to end this segment and we will be right back. This has been episode 97 of a Life in Ruins podcast. Welcome back to episode 97, a Life in Ruins podcast. We're talking with Nicholas Carbone.
Educating through TikTok: Balancing Brevity and Facts
00:32:00
Speaker
And on this, we obviously know of you because of TikTok and we definitely want to talk about
00:32:06
Speaker
your experiences on TikTok, you know, telling people and learning people about archaeology for using the wrong verbs for that. But you know, that's just what it is. So what do you think is like some of the positives and negatives that you kind of have about creating content on on TikTok?
00:32:26
Speaker
Right. So when people like learn something or they get something out of it and like they let me know that it's like a really rewarding thing and it makes me like want to make more. But one of the hardest parts of doing it at the same time is that obviously TikTok is a
00:32:47
Speaker
very it's conducive to like very short videos. And I try to keep mine like a minute or under just because you can't hold people's attention for like longer than that. Really, especially on like on like topics like this. And it's really, really difficult sometimes like fitting in all of the information that I want to fit into a video in under 60 seconds. It's like it can get like really hard. And sometimes I spend like a day working or more
00:33:17
Speaker
trying to figure out how to even word a script that I'm like writing. So you write scripts? I do. I write scripts and then I like, it was, I don't know why I do that. I should just get like a teleprompter or something, but I memorize them. And so I have to like take the time to memorize. It's like a whole process. I could make it way more efficient. I just don't. It comes off like you, like I assumed it was just, yeah, you don't think you need a teleprompter, but I mean, it always helps, I guess. Yeah, no, it's safe time.
00:33:47
Speaker
Well, it's really impressive to be concise and to get everything that you want into there. It hurts my brain. You guys doing that stuff is really, really interesting to me because I always feel like I need to context everything, but you don't if you're trying to teach folks. You can give them enough information to ultimately
00:34:12
Speaker
at least like lead them down the right rabbit hole. Right. Exactly. And that's, that's a big thing. Like on, on Tik TOK, there is a lot of like BS and misinformation. I'm just, I'm sure David knows. Yeah. I can't remember if anyone's on anyone on Tik TOK knows, especially. Yeah.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah, and so and that's the thing like and there's like a lot of like great creators who get in like like we do really great work like Debunking and like conspiracy busting like I know like morrow skiing you guys had him on yeah, he he does that Yeah, you know and he and like and like you know and like they need like we need that like you know people like there to like
00:34:53
Speaker
I'm not a very combative person, so I have a hard time doing it. Yeah. We've reached out to many minute man to to see if like he would want to come on and he's a little more combative with people or like would be what's a combative? He's just more like you're wrong. I'm really funny. Here's why. Yeah, we need that out there. I just don't want to be that guy. Yeah, no, I'm the same same thing. Like I can't do it. I would just I would just fold. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:23
Speaker
And like, I remember like when there was that person. Oh my God. It was like the indigo Bruno saga. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or that, or that one in the ancient Rome never existed. That one that happened to that was, yeah, there's a bunch of them. Yeah. I didn't know that existed and somebody tried to like, they sent it to me and they were like, Hey, are you familiar with this person? And can you get a hold of them so I can strangle them? And I was like, uh, I've never seen that Connor, are you familiar with this? No, I have, I have no idea what you guys are even talking about.
00:35:53
Speaker
Nick probably knows more than me, but like somebody, it was this person saying that ancient Rome never existed. It was all Spain or something like that. Oh, they were like, oh, it's like, it's an invention of the Catholic, like the medieval Catholic church. Like it was never a thing. It was, they were like, they basically said like, like ancient Rome was like a theme park invented by the church.
00:36:12
Speaker
And yeah, they were like the main character of TikTok for like four weeks. It was really obnoxious. Man, there's a lot of bad takes out in this world and that is probably the worst take.
00:36:24
Speaker
That's not you. Oh my God. There was hundreds of hours of worth of videos that just went into just taking apart that thing. And people were asking me, like, oh, Jake, are you going to make a response to this? And I was like, absolutely not. I'm not getting involved. I'm just going to make videos about ancient Rome and offer
00:36:46
Speaker
I just ignore it because I didn't want to breathe more life into it. That's a good way to go about it. I have multiple mentors that are like, don't even mention the pseudoscience stuff because you're only giving it more air, I think, just like you said.
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah. Unless like, unless like you are like completely like going, like if that's like your whole thing where you just deconstruct these, which is important and people need to do that. And I just, I really commend people who can. Um, yeah, that's just not my, that's not my personality as well. So it's like, uh, we had Dr. Anderson on who, who does a lot of that. And, you know, Archeo Wolf who's, I'm glad that those people exist. It's probably a very thankful, thankless job. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:34
Speaker
the Bruno saga too was uh Connor he was the kid that was like I keep saying kid but he was the guy that was like
00:37:41
Speaker
with the Easter Island heads saying that they all have beards and it's connected to like, like the whole ancient civilization thing and yada, yada. And like, he had like the AirPods that he, or looked at headphones that he hung right here. So the one that was like, yeah, it was yelled super loud. He was screaming into the mic. Is that him or is that? Oh yeah. He's like, like, what? How does that even happen? Yeah. Uh, I was like the one guy I like made responses to cause I was just like,
00:38:06
Speaker
But we're friends now on TikTok and we chatted it up and he was like, that Minnie Minnie Man guy ripped me up and I was like, yeah. And he was like.
00:38:15
Speaker
I appreciated what you did because you just made like made it funny. You didn't like rip me to shreds and like we'll chat. But like his his whole thing is like he does like the universe is all math like videos and stuff like that. So Easter Alan wasn't his forte. But you had a response video to like where he mentioned you and was like, thank you for like teaching me kind of thing.
00:38:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I liked that. And that's what I liked about your TikTok too, man, is like, it's just your videos are consistent. You're teaching and like, you're thrilled about it. You're not like, I mean, I love archea wolf. Like I'll put it up and watch him just rip a kid to shreds. But then like, it's just a nice brush of fresh breath of fresh air to just learn something. And I think being
00:39:00
Speaker
that extending the olive branch to those people who are just, you know, completely, like irreparably wrong. It's better than being combative, I think.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, and it's just like I don't know. And that's that's part of my my kind of mission with it is like to the extent that I have a mission with this is just like, yeah, I want to like fill people's feeds with like genuine, like just genuine, like as truthful as I can possibly make it. You know what I mean? The content and that's that's getting to the heart of this is like I firmly believe that like archaeology is
00:39:37
Speaker
interesting and fascinating and really entertaining in its own right.
Fighting Misinformation in Archaeology
00:39:42
Speaker
You don't need pseudoscience. You don't need all this BS to make it interesting because that's the thing. With TikTok, TikTok has the shortest attention span.
00:39:56
Speaker
of any social media platform, like your average TikTok user is not, you know what I mean? He's a goldfish. And unfortunately, because of that, and all social media suffers from this, but because of that, TikTok is, I think, especially susceptible to misinformation and conspiracies because it's the most tantalizing, eye-catching, clickbaity stuff that can really catch you on the for you page.
00:40:26
Speaker
And I think what I want to do with Dig the Past is just show people that you don't have to buy into that to have fun with archaeology and have fun learning about archaeology. You don't need that stuff to have it be entertaining. The factual information and scientific science is entertaining in its own right.
00:40:55
Speaker
I think you hit the nail on the head. I was just saying, I completely agree because like you don't need aliens that they're, it's just how people live in the past and not knowing about that and trying to figure out little facets of it is something that is exciting enough for me to just exist as is because it's so, like you said, it's interesting. It's fascinating. I don't need my aliens to come in there and tell me that, that things are different. It's just, that's what we're going to say, David. You're just saying the same thing. Like that's my whole philosophy with it. Like it's all,
00:41:24
Speaker
I almost thought you were going to say this too, but I mean, it's along the same lines. Anthropology is the study of humans. So like, therefore, anything in anthropology could be presented in a way of like why this matters to you. Like astrophysics, some people are just never going to care. But like, like you can always say like, this is how people used to live. Like as like families, like they had dogs and stuff like that. And it's like relevant to you.
00:41:48
Speaker
And a lot of people miss the mark, not kind of capitalizing on that. And like good TikTok and YouTube channels and stuff like Stefan's and stuff like that. That's good. It's a, yeah. Cause that's, cause yeah. And I think the most, the videos are like the content that resonates with people the most is the stuff that's like most relatable. And like you said, David, like all of anthropology is relatable cause it's humans. And so yeah, no, totally. Yeah.
00:42:14
Speaker
Well, and I think what you're talking about with the stuff in New England, it also gives you a connection to where you live, a physical connection to where you live that's not just historical. It can be pre-historical. It can really... Like trying to understand how people lived on a landscape to me hurts my brain, but it also fascinates me. I just picture little tracks in my head of where people are walking and where they're moving through stuff like that. That's a sad place that is my brain.
00:42:42
Speaker
And I do that to envision walking anywhere. I stop for a second. I'm like, oh, what did this place look like 5,000 years ago? And trying to reconstruct the environment in my head and reconstruct how people would have moved on the landscape. And yeah, I do that all the time. It's just this archaeology brain.
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like you got it. We all think the same way. So what was your favorite TikTok that you created? I know we, like in our podcasts, we don't, we try not to, we love them all equally, you know, except for the one with the guy who talks about the red thing, but we're not gonna talk about Bernie Taylor, you know, that's a whole thing. We're not gonna, just not even gonna deal with that. But what is your like your kind of favorite video that you created through this?
00:43:29
Speaker
To be honest with you, I think it's the Boylston Street Fishwear, and that's my first one.
Highlighting Ancient History Beneath Cities
00:43:35
Speaker
And it's, you know, it's my first one that I posted. It's my favorite. But like it really is just because I think it's.
00:43:41
Speaker
It's you know, it's it was on its face. It's like a relatively simple thing. It's like, oh, it's this like fishing contraption that like, you know, is underneath Boston. But like it really resonates with me one because like I'm living in Boston right now and like every time I go past Boylston Street all the time. And it's just like it's just it's so fascinating for me because it's like I found out about the about the Boylston Street fish we're
00:44:07
Speaker
like a while ago, I never even knew it existed. And then I found out about it and I was like, this is the most interesting thing to think about. Like this used to be like this ancient shoreline. It looked completely like 100% totally different from how it does now. What I love about that video is like,
00:44:26
Speaker
it kind of makes you like re-envision like the city and like think about how it used like like what the landscape it makes you think about the deep time of the place and and I think that's just like my favorite like thought exercise is just like
00:44:46
Speaker
is just thinking about how deeply ancient everywhere you go is. Every single place that you walk has been there forever, really. Yeah. As a kid in New York City, I saw a little plaque. I forget what museum it was at or maybe it was just at Central Park.
00:45:07
Speaker
what Manhattan looked like, like when people would have from Europe, like arrived. Yeah. And like, it's just like to think about the skyline of Manhattan, the entire island is just metal right now in concrete. But before that, it was just trees. And like Boston was the same way. Boston was Boston was an island, like at least in like the 1776, like it was like there was like a small little isthmus that I think actually went to Boston proper, even in like the 1700s. It's been
00:45:35
Speaker
built up and things like that. So even like that short amount of time, it's changed like that. It's crazy. Yeah. No, and it's in the edits. That's all. Yeah, that's all fill. Yeah. You're right. That's all filled in. Yeah. David, that's the, uh, the manna Hatta project, right? It was like, where they do like 1609, like when Adrian block, Oh, it's something big that I remember like hearing about or seeing somewhere as a kid. Yeah.
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah. And so that's a, that's a, so that's something that I would love to see applied like more, like in more places because like, cause I, like, I love paleo environmental reconstruction stuff in general. And so yeah, that's just, that's so interesting to me. It really is. And I guess, you know, Donnie dust, right? Like on tick tock, the guy makes all the tools and stuff. We had him on and like, one of the cool things that we chatted about was like,
00:46:30
Speaker
knowing the indigenous people and like about the culture and the history of the area you're at, if like civilization were to collapse or like, you know, just something like an EMP, just any kind of disaster, you know how to survive in that area just solely based on archeology.
Encouraging Local Archaeological Exploration
00:46:46
Speaker
Like here's how you build houses, here's how you get the food, here's like, and I just wish more people knew that. So I guess that's your goal too. Yeah. No, that's, that's the thing. Like,
00:46:56
Speaker
there's history everywhere. And that's why I, you know, obviously I'm interested in North American archeology and that's why I post about it. But at the same time, I also post about it a lot because obviously most of my audience is in the United States and there's this like really like kind of sad conception that like you have to go somewhere else to experience archeology or to experience history or like deep time.
00:47:20
Speaker
Like as cool as Italy is or as cool as Greece is in terms of its archaeology, it's right here. It's right here if you know where to look. It's under the suburbs. It's under Manhattan. Yeah, no. And that was such a cool—and that's why I kind of switched to doing North American archaeology.
00:47:43
Speaker
It was just, that's just such a intellectual, just like thought provoking thing to study. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, I think we'll kind of segue to ending the show. Thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us. But before we end the show, what are a couple sources that you would recommend for anyone interested in anthropology and archeology?
Recommended Resources for Archaeology Enthusiasts
00:48:07
Speaker
First, I would recommend Connecticut's Indigenous Peoples, What Archaeology, History, and Oral Traditions Teach Us About Their Communities and Cultures. That's by Dr. Lucianne Lavin, who I met actually briefly. She's the, I don't know, her director or something. She was in charge of the Institute for American Indian Studies, where I worked.
00:48:29
Speaker
And that's sort of really good introductory book to Connecticut archeology for anyone who's like from New England, like Southern New England in general, who's like interested in the archeology of Connecticut or like where like local to you. Yeah, no, that's a great book. Lots of pictures.
00:48:48
Speaker
That's a really good one. Then I would also say, Becoming an Archaeologist, a Guide to Professional Pathways by Joe Flatman. Never heard of that. Yeah, it's just like a little career advice book that I found really helpful. I probably read it, I should have read it sooner than I did, because it gives you a rundown of the realities of working in CRM, the realities of trying to get a job in academia, that kind of thing.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, it's it was I hope it was an eye opening read. It's very like in your face, like real like, you know.
00:49:22
Speaker
like look like this is the reality of the situation. It's not easy. Yeah. So that's a really good one. Like if you're like a perspective or like if you're, if you're an undergraduate like me, definitely read that. And then lastly, David, I loved your YouTube video. It was like anthropologist explains ADHD, depression and imposter syndrome short film. Yeah. That got me through or helped get me through my last semester with all that research. I, as someone who also has ADHD, I could tell. Yeah.
00:49:50
Speaker
Yeah, no. And yeah, it is just like, yeah, that I felt very seen. And yeah, actually I've discovered you first through YouTube. Okay. And then I had like Ben watch, I had like passively like watching your YouTube channel.
00:50:07
Speaker
like for the last like six months or whatever. And then like I knew that I saw you on TikTok and whatever. But yeah, no, that's a great video. I loved that. That was really well put together. That's gonna make me cry. I didn't realize like it was that impactful to people. Yeah. No, that helped. That really helped me. Cool. Damn. Didn't know that. I also didn't see that my name was on here. I just saw the big anthropologist explains.
00:50:29
Speaker
Damn, well, I appreciate that. I had that whole idea ADHD wise, like came to me in the shower and I was like talking to myself as the prehistoric dude and me just like arguing. I'm fully insane. And I was like, I gotta, I have to record this or I filmed that whole thing like in a night. Cause I was like, I have to get it out. Yeah, I appreciate that. I was going to say to you the whole time, like you remind me of me and like I, your videos are so articulate. They're really well researched.
00:50:57
Speaker
Clearly, they got a good head on your shoulders with everything you've been doing. So I don't know you, but I'm proud of you. Keep it up. Thank you, David. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. And your sweater game is on pool. Right. And you kind of wanted to talk about that. Yeah. That's thanks to my partner. She picks out all of my sweaters. So I'm not taking credit for it. Well, it's awesome. Yeah. Keep it up. Yeah.
00:51:20
Speaker
And where can our listeners find you on social media? So you can find me at digthepast on TikTok. I don't have a YouTube or Instagram yet, but I'll make those soon at some point. Okay. So yeah, go to my TikTok and follow me on TikTok. Instagram is where as old people are. So it's fun on there. Oh, geez. So because this is a life in ruins, we have to ask you the most daunting question that you'll ever be asked.
00:51:47
Speaker
So, if you were given the chance again, would you still choose to live a life in ruins?
00:52:03
Speaker
what an anthropological education gives you. It's just such a wonderful experience. So yes, yes. For sure. Yeah. So yeah, we just interviewed Nicholas Carbone. You can find him at digthepast on TikTok.
00:52:18
Speaker
Guys, you know what time it is. It is time for me to beg you to give us iTunes reviews on Apple or podcast reviews to say. Again, I will extend the olive branch. If you write us a review and send us a screenshot in the podcast DMs on Instagram or Twitter or whatever, or email us or smoke signal, I don't care.
00:52:35
Speaker
I will send you a sticker of the show and Carlton now has a stack of freshly clean matted a life in ruins podcast stickers, which he would gladly send you to. So that's a free sticker. If again, if you go to the podcast on Apple and give us a review so we can appease the Zuck
00:52:54
Speaker
Alright, thanks guys. He's not, he doesn't run Apple. So there's a place to give reviews or rate things on Spotify now. Please make sure and do that. And with that, we are out.
00:53:15
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archaeologists in from the cold and feed them beer. Yeah, Connor, the joke. Yeah, I could do a joke. I could do a joke.
00:53:37
Speaker
So why should you never date a tennis player? Why? Love means nothing to them. Wow, that's pretty good. And with that Connor, I think we're finally out.
00:54:06
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.