In this episode of the CoWorking Values podcast, we have the pleasure of speaking with Alex Young, Director of Projects in Brighton.

We discuss the significance of accessibility in shared workspaces and how Projects is leading the way in creating inclusive environments. 

Alex shares practical advice on advocating for accessibility needs, designing spaces to be universally accessible, and listening to those who face accessibility challenges. Tune in to learn how inclusive design can make a difference in the workplace and the wider community.

Highlights

[0:02] - Introduction to the Accessibility Edition with guest Alex Young.

[0:26] - Alex talks about her role and the mission of Projects as a workspace provider.

[1:26] - Importance of supporting employees with diverse needs.

[3:09] - Emily shares a personal example of body doubling for productivity.

[4:04] - Key considerations for making coworking spaces accessible.

[5:55] - Common mistakes in accessibility efforts.

[7:18] - Tips for advocating for accessibility needs at work.

[8:42] - Low-hanging fruits for improving accessibility.

[10:52] - Story of successful advocacy and mentorship in a Berlin coworking space.

[12:17] - Future trends in accessibility for coworking spaces.

[14:09] - Alex's journey into the field of coworking and accessibility.

[17:27] - Advice for new co-working spaces on building accessibility from the ground up.

[19:13] - How listeners can connect with Alex.

Alex on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-young-74431a135/] 

Projects - Brighton [https://www.projectsclub.co.uk] 

Listen to Alex her Favourite Positions Podcast [https://www.favouritepositions.com] 

Emily on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilygbreder/] 

Coworking Values Podcast on Substack [https://coworkingvaluespodcast.substack.com] 

Links & Resources

Centre of Excellence in Universal Design: Universal Design [https://universaldesign.ie] 

Access to Work (UK Government Fund): Access to Work [https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work] 

Exceptional Individuals (UK Gateway Provider): Exceptional Individuals [https://exceptionalindividuals.com]

Remember, the strength of our communities lies in our collective efforts and shared values.

Please rate, follow, share, and leave a review for the Coworking Values Podcast [https://coworkingvaluespodcast.substack.com] ; it helps our show have an even greater impact.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Creating Inclusive  Works Places  with Alex Young

In this episode's conversation is with Dina, a key figure in the German coworking community, straight from her greenhouse in Hamburg.

Dina shares her journey of integrating coworking values into corporate settings where she works as an Agile Coach and Scrum Master.

We also explore the relationship between agile methodologies and coworking principles.

Episode Highlights:

[0:17] Dina's Coworking Vision: Dina's aspirations to reshape the German work landscape through coworking.

[1:39] Coworking in Corporate Settings: How coworking values are influencing traditional corporate environments.

[4:19] Community Over Competition: Bernie discusses the impact of sharing and collaboration in coworking.

[6:29] CoWork 2024 Insights: Highlights from the recent coworking conference focusing on sustainability.

[10:08] Holistic Sustainability: Exploring sustainability beyond environmental aspects within coworking.

[17:14] Future Plans: Upcoming initiatives by the German Coworking Federation to promote sustainable practices.

Links & Resources:

German Coworking Federation [https://www.coworking-germany.org/] 

Cowork 2024 Conference [https://www.cowork2024.de/] 

Coworking Climate Coalition [https://www.coworking-germany.org/coworking-climate-coalition-cocc/] 

Connect with Dina on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dina-sierralta/] 

Follow Dina’s gardening journey on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/dinasierralta/] 

Lego Serious Play [https://www.serious.global]

Coworking Values Podcast on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/coworking-values-podcas]  

Remember, the strength of our communities lies in our collective efforts and shared values.

Please rate, follow, share, and leave a review for the Coworking Values Podcast ; it helps our show have an even greater impact.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Committing Coworking  to the Sustainability Value with Dina Sierralta

In this episode, we hear from Eva Sanz of Locus Workspace in Prague, who shares how to create a lively community where work and relationships flourish. Eva talks about the unique blend of work and social life at Locus Workspace.

She explains how their unique approach to community management transforms a typical coworking day into an opportunity for creating lasting friendships and professional networks. 

Whether you're a freelancer seeking a collaborative space or a seasoned entrepreneur looking for your next creative spark, this conversation reveals how community-driven spaces can elevate your work experience.

Episode Highlights:

0:20 Introduction to Eva Sanz and Locus Workspace - discover the unique coworking environment that balances productivity and networking.

1:07 The Role of a Community Manager - Eva discusses her day-to-day activities and the integral role of community managers in fostering a welcoming and connected workspace.

3:03 Defining community management - clarification on community managers’ distinct roles and impacts versus traditional receptionists.

4:10 You’ll hear Eva’s journey from a newcomer to a pivotal community influencer in Prague's coworking scene.

10:06 Dynamic workspace culture - explore Locus Workspace’s flexible desk policy that encourages new connections daily.

14:11 The power of reviews and recommendations - Learn how positive feedback and word-of-mouth propel Locus Workspace to a leading position in Prague.

Links & Resources:

- Visit Locus Workspace: LocusWorkspace.com [http://locusworkspace.com]

- Follow on Instagram: @locusworkspace [http://instagram.com/locusworkspace] 

- Eva Sanz on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/eva-sanz/] 

- Coworking Values Podcast on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/coworking-values-podcast/] 

Remember, the strength of our communities lies in our collective efforts and shared values.

Please rate, follow, share, and leave a review for the Coworking Values Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/company/coworking-values-podcast/] ; it helps our show have an even greater impact.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Cultivating Connections in Prague the  Locus Workspace Way  with Eva Sanz

Planting Ideas and Growing Communities with Chauntelle Lewis: A Dive into Sustainable Living and Coworking Values

Summary:

In this Belongfulness Project [https://belongfulness.com] episode of the Coworking Values Podcast, host Tony Bacigalupo [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybacigalupo/] chats with Chauntelle Lewis [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjnlewis/], also known as the Bearfoot Planter.

Chauntelle shares her inspiring journey from conceptualising sustainable garden workshops to creating community-centric dining experiences.

In this episode, you'll see how personal passions can evolve into impactful enterprises while aligning with coworking's core values—community, openness, collaboration, accessibility, and sustainability.

Episode Highlights:

- Tony introduces the five core values of coworking and welcomes Chauntelle Lewis, the Bearfoot Planter.

- Chauntelle describes the origin of the Bearfoot Planter and how an offhand comment led to a sustainable business idea.

- The brand name’s significance and the shift from a casual hobby to a community-focused enterprise.

Chauntelle discusses her background in ADEI and community management and how a pivot in her career led to her full-time pursuit of her passion.

- Launching the Bearfoot Planter during a financial struggle and the role of a supportive network in bringing the idea to life.

- Details of Chauntelle’s first workshop at a coworking space, showcasing the alignment of coworking values with personal initiatives.

- Financial challenges and strategic decisions in growing a community-focused business.

- The expansion into sustainable dining experiences and partnerships with local chefs and businesses.

- Chauntelle’s vision for the Bearfoot Planter as a full-time endeavor and her role as an Impact Entrepreneur.

- How networking and community support have been pivotal in scaling her initiatives and creating more inclusive events.

Links & Resources:

- Visit the Bearfoot Planter website [http://thebearfootplanter.com]

- Follow Chauntelle on Instagram [http://instagram.com/thebearfootplanter]

- Connect with Chauntelle on Twitter/X [http://twitter.com/barefootplanter]

- Chauntelle Lewis LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjnlewis/]

- Tony Bacigalupo on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybacigalupo/]

- The Belongfulness Project [https://belongfulness.com]

- Coworking LinkedIn Group [https://www.linkedin.com/groups/33807/]

🙏One more thing

Please follow and share the Coworking Values Podcast. It helps our show's impact in unimaginable ways.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Planting Ideas and Growing Communities with Chauntelle Lewis

In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with Sarah, a pioneer in community building from Founders and Coders, to explore the nuanced distinctions between decentralized and centralized communities.

You will hear the transformative power of shared decision-making and equitable power distribution in fostering vibrant, sustainable communities.

Sarah shares her invaluable insights on crafting inclusive spaces that accommodate and celebrate diversity, ensuring that every voice is heard and influential.

This episode is helpful if you’re passionate about intentional community building and the delicate balance between equality and equity.

We also discuss the practicalities of launching and nurturing communities that thrive on collaboration, inclusivity, and co-creation in community spaces!

Episode Highlights to listen for:

- Introduction and overview of the episode’s focus on community building and power distribution.

- Sarah introduces herself and her role at Founders and Coders, highlighting her journey into decentralized community building.

- Deep dive into what decentralized communities mean and the importance of shared power.

- The challenges and strategies of starting community-centric initiatives like coworking spaces.

- Sarah’s approach to creating inclusive environments and the importance of selecting the right participants.

- Explaining the critical difference between equity and equality in community settings.

- Conducting effective user research to ensure community initiatives meet the needs of their members.

- The economic aspects of communities and how genuine community support differs from superficial engagement.

- Where to find Sarah online and information about Founders and Coders.

Links & Resources:

- Founders and Coders Website [https://www.foundersandcoders.com] 

- Connect with Sarah Adefehinti on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahadefehinti/] 

- Space4 Co-opreative Coworking [https://space4.tech] Finsbury Park

- Rayon.Desgin tool [https://www.rayon.design/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=collab_bernim&utm_source=blog&utm_content=blog_020124] 

🙏One more thing

Please follow and share the Coworking Values Podcast. It helps our show's impact in unimaginable ways.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Diversifying Tech Through Community with Sarah Adefehinti 

In today's episode, we chat with Laura Agnew from the Facework Group in Peckham, where she manages two unique coworking spaces.

Through affordability and community, Laura, Stephen and their team transform unconventional locations like a repurposed car park and a historic building into thriving hubs for diverse work and community use.

Tune in to discover how these spaces foster creativity and community in the ever-evolving world of work. 

Whether you're a startup founder, a local activist or a creative freelancer, this discussion will give you a fresh perspective on modern coworking environments.

Timeline of Highlights

00:17 Laura introduces herself and discusses her role in managing affordable coworking spaces.

01:16 Laura shares her aspirations and her hopeful outlook on life.

03:52 Insights into the daily operations at Faceworks and the unique setup at Peckham Levels and Hatcham House.

06:04 Comparison between the coworking spaces at Peckham and the historical Hatcham House.

-07:43 Discuss the impactful projects for refugees at Hatcham House.

12:17 Laura explains the Cowork Plus initiative and the importance of accessible coworking options.

15:27 The crucial role of hospitality in creating welcoming coworking environments.

18:18 Laura's personal motivation is driven by community and social mobility.

24:06 Where to find Laura online and more details about upcoming events.

Links & Resources

- Visit the Facework website [https://face.work] to learn more about their services and community initiatives.

- Connect with Laura Agnew [https://linkedin.com/in/laura-agnew] on LinkedIn

- London Coworking Assembly [https://londoncoworkingassembly.com/] 

- European Coworking Day [https://coworkingday.eu/] 

- LinkedIn Coworking Group

Remember, fixing everything depends on our joint efforts, values, and strong communities - community is the key!! 🔑

🙏One more thing

Please follow and share the Coworking Values Podcast. It helps our show's impact in unimaginable ways.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Building Communities in Unlikely Spaces with Laura Agnew

We caught up with Tracy Wilson, a remarkable individual who is making waves in the coworking sphere and the sustainability movement.

Tracy, known for her deep commitment to reducing waste, particularly single-use plastics, through her work over 16 years with Pacific Workplaces and her nonprofit, "SUPER [https://super.ngo/] " (Single-Use Plastic Elimination or Reduction), shares her journey from a consumer-driven lifestyle to a passionate advocate for environmental change.

We delve into the origins of coworking, its evolution, and how the industry can take charge of sustainability.

Tracy's story powerfully reminds us of the impact of individual actions on the broader fight against climate change and waste.

Her work with SUPER Certification, which aims to demystify business operations, inspires coworking spaces and businesses alike to reconsider their environmental footprint.

Episode Highlights:

0:23 Tracy's Introduction: Learn about Tracy's impactful journey from consumerism to sustainability champion and how she's influencing the coworking industry.

1:32 The Coworking Beginnings: Tracy reflects on her early exposure to coworking and its growth over the years, offering insights into the industry's evolving identity.

4:13 Launching a Nonprofit: Discover the motivations behind Tracy's leap into founding a nonprofit focused on eliminating single-use plastics and the challenges and opportunities presented by the COVID-19 pandemic.

8:50 Community Engagement: Hear how Tracy engaged the coworking community to promote sustainability and the mixed responses she encountered.

12:50 The Power of Small Changes: Tracy emphasizes the significant impact of minor adjustments in daily operations on environmental sustainability.

17:18 Sustainable Practices in Coworking: Explore practical steps for integrating sustainability into coworking spaces, from furniture choices to waste reduction strategies.

Links & Resources:

- Pacific Workplaces [https://pacificworkplaces.com/]

- SUPER [https://super.ngo/] Certification A nonprofit dedicated to helping businesses reduce their use of single-use plastics.

- Tracy on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracycwilson/]

Thank you for joining us on this enlightening journey into sustainability within the coworking world. If Tracy's story inspired you, remember to rate, follow, share, and review our podcast. Your support helps us bring more stories like this to light. Together, we can make a difference, one coworking space at a time.

Remember, fixing everything depends on our joint efforts, values, and strong communities - community is the key!! 🔑

🙏One more thing

Please follow and share the Coworking Values Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/company/coworking-values-podcast/].

It helps our show's impact in unimaginable ways.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Making The Sustainability Shift Tracy Wilson

The Renegades of Flow: Navigating Work and Life Beyond the Mainstream

What do we mean by 'renegades of flow?' 

What is our journey through work and life beyond the conventional paths, and how do we navigate our neurodiversity in the hustle of the modern world? 

Whether you're a freelancer, entrepreneur, or someone who just doesn't fit the traditional 9-to-5 mould, this episode is a testament to the unconventional paths that lead to success and fulfilment.

1:05 Welcome to our world, where we introduce the 'Renegades of Flow' concept and discuss what it means to live and work on the fringes, embracing our unique strengths and quirks.

2:06 - Emily shares the definitions of being renegades in our fields, focusing on creativity, flow, and the importance of fitting out rather than fitting in.

5:44 The challenges and advantages of coworking spaces for people with neurodiversity highlight the need for environments that foster productivity and creativity.

10:38 Our candid recounting of last week's chaos, where life threw us curveballs, and how we managed to keep the ship sailing, underscoring the value of having a solid partnership.

17:42 What tech and task management systems are in our workflow, and why is it crucial to adapt tools to fit individual needs rather than conform to a one-size-fits-all approach?

24:19 Why you must 'kill your darlings' in writing and business planning.

Links & Resources:

Scrum Methodology [https://www.scrum.org/] 

Getting Things Done - David Allen [https://gettingthingsdone.com/] 

12 Week Year [https://amzn.to/34FOcy4] 

Amy MacDonald - Let's Start a Band [https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=2iwfeFNrA5A&si=phahPKp6yEDgTxBK] 

Tom Ball - Founder Desk Lodge [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomball2/] 

Upbase [https://upbase.io/?via=bernie]

AppSumo Software Deals [https://appsumo.8odi.net/BJMSendFox]


🙏One more thing

Remember, fixing everything depends on our joint efforts, values, and strong communities - community is the key!! 🔑

Please follow, share, and leave a review of the Coworking Values Podcast.

It helps our show's impact in unimaginable ways.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Subscribe to Coworking Values Podcast [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s] on Soundwise [https://mysoundwise.com/soundcasts/1586605780737s]

Renegades of Flow Episode 2

Discover the Beauty of Coworking with Doris Schuppe

Our guest, Doris, is a leader in the coworking community and cofounder of Rayaworx in Mallorca, Spain.

She is known for her expertise in communication and digital collaboration tools.

We asked Doris about her journey from Munich to Mallorca, where she created the lively Rayaworx coworking space.

Their space serves a community of people looking for #workation time.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 Welcome to a special episode where we explore the transformative world of coworking with Doris Schuppe, a coworking space runner and digital collaboration enthusiast from Spain.

- [01:21] Doris's leap into coworking began in 2009, inspired by a desire for a dynamic working environment. Her journey from Munich to Majorca illustrates the power of coworking in creating community and fostering innovation.

- [03:35] Discover how coworking spaces provide more than just a workplace; they're incubators for serendipitous connections and collaborations.

- [05:58] Learn about the inception of Doris's coworking space in Majorca, a testament to the adaptability and support within the coworking community.

- [10:07] Doris shares insights on the pivotal role of co-working in achieving work-life balance and the importance of being part of a community that values collaboration over competition.

- [13:56] Celebrate 25 years of coworking with #Coworking25, Doris' initiative to honour the legacy and future of coworking. Engage with stories from around the globe and contribute to the dialogue on the evolution of coworking.

Links & Resources:

- Coworking Origin Story: Dive into the roots of coworking and how it has evolved over the last 25 years.

- RayaWorx: Discover Doris's coworking space in Majorca, a hub for creativity and collaboration.

- #Coworking25 Blog Carnival: Join the celebration and share your coworking story or insights.

🔑 Community is the key!

Please follow, share, and leave a review of the Coworking Values Podcast [https://londoncoworkingassembly.com/podcasts/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_source_platform=mailpoet&utm_campaign=bbc-talks-about-coworking-and-london-coworking-assembly-news-246].

It helps our show's impact in unimaginable ways.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

#Coworking25: Celebrating 25 Years Of Coworking with Doris Schuppe

Iris is an experienced community builder, leadership coach, trainer, and facilitator who shares her transformative insights on leadership, community building, and the fundamental human need for connection.

00:14 - Discover Iris Kavanaugh's journey from NextSpace to becoming a beacon of inspiration for coworking space leaders.

02:02 - Iris illuminates the overlooked role of coworking spaces as pivotal community hubs and economic drivers.

03:50 - We ponder the existential question: Why do we pursue coworking, and how does it fulfil our intrinsic need for togetherness?

05:27 - Iris delves into coworking spaces' biological and emotional benefits, highlighting their ability to heal societal fractures and promote unity.

06:25 - How a space design plays a crucial role in how we interact in our spaces.

07:13 - Challenging the hustle culture, we discuss the importance of nurturing environments over a grind mentality in coworking spaces.

08:44 - Iris shares her insights on co-working as a grassroots economic development engine, emphasizing its local and individual growth potential.

11:49 - Unpacking the secrets to fostering genuine connections and a thriving community within coworking spaces.

13:33 - This is a deep dive into designing psychologically safe spaces that unlock creativity and spark genuine collaboration.

19:13 - The delicate balance between hospitality and community ownership in coworking spaces and how to encourage member engagement without developing entitlement.

21:29 - Iris touches on the profound journey of self-discovery for coworking leaders and how understanding oneself enhances leadership and community building.

Links & Resources:

- NextSpace [https://pacificworkplaces.com/nextspace-coworking/]

- Women Who Cowork [https://womenwhocowork.com/]

- Coworking Alliance Summit [https://coworkingalliancesummit.com/]

- Fento Coworking [https://fentocoworking.com/]

- Leading Well from Within [https://amzn.to/3wZ3snS] by Dr. Daniel Friedland

- European Coworking Assembly  [https://coworkingassembly.eu/]

- London Coworking Assembly [https://londoncoworkingassembly.com/]

- Iris on Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/slickiris/]

Remember, the strength of our communities lies in our collective efforts and shared values.

Please rate, follow, share, and leave a review for the Coworking Values Podcast [https://londoncoworkingassembly.com/podcasts/]; it helps our shows have an impact.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.

Our co-creator for this episode is Rayon Design [https://www.rayon.design/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=collab_bernim&utm_source=blog&utm_content=blog_020124]  - whether you want to move the desks around your space or build space from scratch, design your project for free here [https://www.rayon.design/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=collab_bernim&utm_source=blog&utm_content=blog_020124] in Rayon today.

Unveiling the Soul of Coworking with Iris Kavanaugh

Welcome to Coworking Values, the European Coworking Assembly podcast.

We post two weekly episodes that explore one of the values of accessibility, community, openness, collaboration and sustainability.

The Renegades of Flow episode with Emily, which airs twice a month, also covers project workflow and creator tips.

Tony also hosts a show called Belongfulness, which looks at the best ways to re-weave our social fabric through coworking.

Listen in to learn how these values can make or break Coworking culture.

Hosted by Emily Breder [https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilygbreder/], Bernie J. Mitchell [https://www.linkedin.com/in/berniejmitchell/] and Tony Bacigalupo [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybacigalupo/]

---------------------------------------------------------------

The Coworking Values Podcast [https://londoncoworkingassembly.com/podcasts/] is kept free with support from our co-produces.

London Coworking Assembly [https://londoncoworkingassembly.com/] - with Rayon.design [https://www.rayon.design/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=collab_bernim&utm_source=blog&utm_content=blog_020124] - web-based space design tool.

"Accessibility Track" with Nook [https://nookpod.com] - Furniture with purpose.

"Visionaries" series to amplify the voices of some of the most distinctive and diverse coworking and flex spaces" with andcards [https://www.andcards.com] - easy-to-use coworking space software.

"Community is the Key" - with Salto Wecosystem [https://saltowecosystem.com/en/] - inspired access.

Remember, the strength of our communities lies in our collective efforts and shared values.

Please rate, follow, share, and leave a review for the Coworking Values Podcast; it helps our show have an even more significant impact.

It also helps people in the wider general public and your neighbourhood understand what coworking is, how it can help their local community, and how it can benefit them in building their careers, projects and work.