In this episode, James is joined by Thomas Vose, co-founder of HireAra, to unpack what it really takes to build a recruitment tech business from scratch and successfully exit it.

They discuss the challenges of bootstrapping, angel investment, avoiding the VC trap, and what life is really like after being acquired. 

If you’re building, scaling, or thinking about selling a rec tech business, this one is packed with real lessons from the front line. 



#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Thomas:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-vose-149788108/



Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]





What No One Tells You About Selling Your Recruitment Tech Company with Thomas Vose

The Marketing Rules Podcast cuts through the noise to bring you real conversations with the people shaping recruitment, talent, and RecTech. Each episode gives you practical strategies, sharper thinking, and the stories behind the ideas that move our industry forward.



This is The Marketing Rules Podcast

In this episode, James sits down with Rudi Bauer, someone we’ve wanted on the show for a long time.

They explore his journey from software developer to leading Europe’s largest developer community and dig into what developers really want today, how their values are changing, and what skills will shape the future of tech talent.

It is a sharp, honest look at where the market is heading and what it means for employers and candidates alike.



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Rudi:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudi-bauer-1b325813/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]



The Developer Revolution Is Here. Are You Ready? With Rudi Bauer

In this episode, James is joined on the couch, in person, by Ross Thompson, founder of Infinity Staff Global, to unpack how he has successfully expanded from Australia into the UK recruitment market.

They get into why he chose South Africa over the Philippines for offshore talent, how cultural fit and time zones impact performance, and why clients are turning to offshore solutions as the cost of employing in the UK and Australia continues to rise.



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Ross:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossnthompson/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]



Why Everyone’s Talking About South African Talent With Ross Thompson

Every now and then, you meet someone who doesn’t just imagine the future — they build it.
In this episode, James talks to Benn Klewpatinond.

A designer, engineer, and inventor whose creations blur the line between technology and humanity. From rethinking the rowing machine with his Float Rower invention to shaping inclusive, purpose-driven products through his company INOND, Benn’s work is all about empathy, innovation, and impact.

Bennhow the mind of a modern inventor works: where ideas come from, how they take shape, and what it really means to design for everyone.



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Benn:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bennklewpatinond/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]

Why True Innovation Starts with People, Not Products With enn Klewpatinond

In this episode, James is joined by Howard Flint, a strategist with over 25 years of experience helping HR and recruitment technology businesses scale and realise their full potential. 

They explore what it really means to grow from startup to scale-up, the challenges these companies face as they professionalise, and why understanding the problem you truly solve is the foundation for success. 



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Howard:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardflint/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]

Why Most RecTech Startups Fail to Scale with Howard Flint

Joining James this week Steve Lewis, Managing Director at HireGuide. 

Steve has spent his career at the heart of recruitment technology, from being one of the first employees at TotalJobs, to leading search staffing and RPO at LinkedIn and now driving innovation in interview intelligence. 

Steve is now on a mission to transform how interviews are run, helping companies make better, fairer, and more structured hiring decisions.



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Steve:⁠

⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenlewis75/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenlewis75/]

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]

Why Candidate Interviews Are Unfair With Steve Lewis

This week James is joined by Glenn Martin: recruiter, talent solutions founder, podcast host, and all-around people person. With over 20 years in the recruitment game, Glenn shares his journey from Glastonbury to building personal and employer brands, the rise and fall of platforms like Twitter (now X), and how AI is reshaping content authenticity. 



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Glenn:⁠

⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennnevermindthejobspec/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]

AI Is Killing Your Personal Brand with Glenn Martin

In this episode, James sits down with Paralympic judo champion Chris Skelley MBE.

From battling childhood bullying and being misdiagnosed by doctors, to finding strength through sport, Chris shares his powerful journey of resilience, mental health struggles, and ultimate triumph on the world stage.

We dive into the highs of winning gold in Tokyo, the emotional fight for bronze in Paris, and why that medal means more than any other.

Now retired, Chris reflects on sacrifice, identity, and his mission to inspire the next generation to thrive, whatever their challenges.

The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Chris:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-hunt-skelley-mbe-ply-73014212b/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]

Why Olympic Bronze Means More Than Gold with Chris Skelley MBE

This week James is joined by Martyn Redstone, or as many in the industry know him, Mr. AI.

Martyn’s been in recruitment for nearly two decades, with over a dozen years immersed in rec tech, and long before AI became the buzzword it is today, he was already helping recruiters craft smart, responsible automation strategies.

From building some of the earliest recruitment chatbots to running the first AI and automation agency in our sector, Martyn’s been right at the heart of conversational AI.

James and Martyn dig into how technology is reshaping candidate experience, what recruitment can learn from e-commerce, and maybe even peek into that slightly dystopian future where AI talks to AI to find you your next job.



The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rchilli.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.rchilli.com/]

#MarketingRules

#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing

⁠To connect with Martyn:⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mredstone/

Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thinkincircles.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://thinkincircles.com/]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.themarketingrules.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.themarketingrules.com/]

From Chatbots to Candidate Experience with Martyn Redstone

One take. No script and no edits! Your host James Whitelock talks to interesting and influential people about the new Rules of Marketing, Business, Recruitment and Technology.

James Whitelock

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