In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Stephen Seckler speaks with Steve Herman, a civil litigator and documentary filmmaker from Vancouver, Canada. After more than 35 years in practice, Steve turned the camera on himself to explore one of the biggest transitions lawyers face—retirement.

His film, Retirement on Trial, which he produced with his filmmaker wife, Evelyn Neaman, uses humor and introspection to examine what it means to step away from a career that has long defined one’s identity.  In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Steve about his journey in making the film

Through interviews with 14 lawyers and judges across North America, Steve explores the challenges of letting go of professional identity, navigating relationships in retirement, and planning psychologically—not just financially—for the next chapter. The film, structured as a farcical courtroom trial of the very concept of retirement, highlights how cultural attitudes toward aging shape our views about purpose and relevance.

The conversation offers practical and emotional insights for lawyers thinking about their “next stage.” As Steve puts it, retirement isn’t the end—it’s a transition into a new stage of growth and fulfillment.

To learn more about the film and view it, visit www.retirementontrial.com [http://www.retirementontrial.com].  To learn more about Steve Seckler’s program for lawyers contemplating a retirement like transition, visit www.seckler.com [http://www.seckler.com] .

Episode 165-Retirement on Trial with Steve Herman

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I reflect on some of the themes of the Jewish New Year and the importance of self reflection (and the fact that you get to do it twice a year if you happen to be Jewish!)

Episode 164-Experiencing Renewal in the Jewish New Year

Publishing a book may feel like an overwhelming project, but for lawyers it can be one of the most effective ways to build credibility, attract new clients, and open doors to new opportunities.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Melanie Herschorn [https://yourbigimpactbook.com/], publisher and book marketing strategist, about how attorneys can transform their expertise into a powerful marketing asset. Melanie draws on her diverse career in journalism, PR, entrepreneurship, and publishing to explain:

 * Why publishing a book can significantly enhance your visibility and authority as a lawyer

 * Common myths that hold professionals back from writing a book — and how to overcome them

 * How long it realistically takes to produce a client-facing book and why length isn’t the most important factor

 * The difference between self-publishing, traditional publishing, and hybrid models

 * How to continue marketing your book long after the launch, and whether there’s a “statute of limitations” on calling it “new”

 * Creative ways to repurpose book content into social media, podcasts, speaking engagements, and client gifts

 * The role of AI in publishing — where it can help, and where it creates risks

Melanie also shares her process for guiding attorneys from concept to published book, and how her clients have seen tangible business growth as a result.

If you’ve been curious about publishing but aren’t sure where to begin, this episode will give you the roadmap and inspiration to take the first step

Episode 163- How Use Book Publishing to Build Your Brand with Melanie Herschorn

Many lawyers are clear about what they don’t want in their career.  But they struggle to define what they do want. In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with Philippe Danielides [https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippedanielides/], former Biglaw associate, communications consultant, coach, and author of The Lawyer’s Guide to Freedom: A Six-Step Plan to Discover What You Actually Want [https://www.amazon.com/Lawyers-Guide-Freedom-Six-Step-Discover/dp/B0B2YQYS12].

Philippe shares insights from his own career journey—spanning Biglaw, corporate communications, solo coaching, authorship, and now his current role with the Career Design team at Latham & Watkins. He explains why career clarity is often so elusive, how lawyers can expand their range of possibilities, and why “freedom” doesn’t necessarily mean leaving the law.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

 * Philippe’s career journey from Biglaw to communications to coaching—and back into Biglaw in a new role

 * Why lawyers often know what they don’t want, but struggle to define what they do want

 * Common myths and misconceptions about career clarity

 * Key elements of Philippe’s six-step process from The Lawyer’s Guide to Freedom

 * How coaching helps lawyers get unstuck and uncover new possibilities

 * What “freedom” means within the context of a legal career

 * Insights from Philippe’s work with Latham’s Career Design team

 * Practical advice for lawyers who feel stuck or afraid to ask themselves what they really want

Philippe Danielides is a coach, writer, and former corporate communications consultant. In 2017, he launched the Blue Pen Project to guide lawyers through career transitions. His 2022 book, The Lawyer’s Guide to Freedom, offers a structured roadmap for clarifying professional goals. Today, Philippe coaches lawyers and alumni at Latham & Watkins, helping them navigate questions of career direction and fulfillment.

Episode 162-"What Do Lawyers Really Want?" with Philippe Danielides

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with attorney, entrepreneur, and legal business strategist Daya Naef [https://thesuccesspartner.net/], founder of The Success Partner, about how law firms can navigate the generational handoff in leadership. As founding partners prepare to step back, younger attorneys are stepping up—bringing fresh perspectives on technology, especially AI, and new expectations for work-life balance, flexibility, and firm culture.

Steve and Daya explore

 * The tensions and opportunities between senior and next-generation lawyers
 *   Succession planning strategies that work (and those that don’t)
 * Practical ways to start small with AI adoption in law firms
 * How to foster collaboration across generations without alienating either side
 * What younger attorneys value most in today’s legal workplace
 * The evolving role of the billable hour and alternative billing models

Daya also shares her vision for the law firm of 2030—one that is AI-enabled, flexible, and driven by a clear strategy for sustainability.

Listen now to learn how your firm can adapt, retain top talent, and thrive in a changing legal landscape.

Episode 161- Managing Law Firms Across the Generations with Daya Naef

Artificial intelligence is dramatically changing how legal services are marketed—and how clients find lawyers. In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Annie Stern, a seasoned digital marketing strategist, about what lawyers need to know to stay relevant in the AI era.

Key Takeaways:

 * AI tools like ChatGPT are reshaping how clients discover and vet lawyers, including those who rely heavily on referrals.

 * A strong digital footprint—updated bios, accurate directories, and mentions on reputable sites—is now critical for visibility.

 * Traditional SEO isn’t dead but must be complemented by AI-readiness strategies.

 * Annie shares the top three things every solo or small firm lawyer should do today to ensure they're discoverable by AI.

Resources & Contact: Learn more about Annie Stern’s work at RizeUp Media [https://www.rizeupmedia.com/] or email her at annie@rizeupmedia.com.

is Episode 160- How AI Disrupting Digital Marketing for Lawyers with Annie Stern

As lawyers, we are trained to analyze, critique, and mitigate risk — all essential skills in practice. But when we bring that same mindset into our everyday conversations, we can unintentionally undermine connection and trust. In this episode, Stephen Seckler explores how the habits that make us successful advocates can backfire in networking, business development, and even personal relationships.

Stephen breaks down some of the most common communication traps lawyers fall into:

 * Leading with skepticism instead of curiosity
 * Listening to respond instead of truly listening to understand
 * Correcting others unnecessarily
 * Over-sharing your own experiences instead of showing empathy
 * Over-explaining and focusing too much on procedural detail
 * Turning casual conversations into debates

Whether you're trying to deepen client relationships, network more effectively, or simply communicate better with colleagues and friends, this episode offers tools to help you become a more impactful and trusted communicator.

Episode 159-How (Not) to Communicate Like a Lawyer

In this solo episode, attorney Stephen Seckler reflects on the importance of building small, consistent habits—both for professional success and personal wellbeing. Drawing on his own efforts to reduce news and screen time, improve sleep hygiene, and maintain dental health, Stephen underscores how selfcare routines can create calm and clarity in stressful times.

He also highlights how the same principle applies to business development: splashy efforts are no substitute for consistent outreach and visibility. Whether it's connecting with referral sources, posting on LinkedIn, or attending networking events, success comes from showing up regularly.

Tune in to hear why both wellness and marketing are long games—and how you can make progress one habit at a time.

Additional Resources

 * Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-139-conquering-perfectionism-in-the-practice-of-law-with-jordana-confino]
 * Episode 140- Naïs Mouret on Emotional Intelligence, Physical Well-being, and the Practice of Law [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-140-nas-mouret-on-emotional-intelligence-physical-wellbeing-and-the-practice-of-law]
 * Episode 135-Tackling Mental Health Issues in the Law with Amy Levine and LCL [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-135-tackling-mental-health-issues-in-the-law-with-amy-levine-and-lcl]

Episode 158-Marketing and Selfcare are Habit Forming

Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata [https://exjudicata.com/], a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers.

Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex judicata to address a growing need: helping lawyers find more fulfilling career paths outside of traditional legal roles.

In This Episode:

* The origin story of ex judicata and the founders' earlier work with Fulcrum Information Services

* Common reasons lawyers want to transition out of practice: burnout, billable hour pressure, and desire for team-oriented environments

* How ex judicata supports lawyers: diagnostic tools, job boards, interview archives, and online courses

* Popular course offerings like financial fluency and data analytics, tailored to JD career pivots

* Mindset shifts and soft skills lawyers need to develop when leaving the profession

* Guidance on timing your transition, especially when you’re financially dependent on your legal job

* The importance of self-reflection, side projects, and informational interviews in career exploration

* Support for 3Ls affected by the Federal hiring freeze

* What’s next for ex judicata—including a new initiative described as “revolutionary”

Additional Resources:

 * ·       Episode 155: From Lawyering to Legal Tech with Ben Chiriboga [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-155-from-lawyering-to-legal-tech-with-ben-chiriboga]
 * ·       Episode 147-Your Legal Career: If It’s Broke, Fix It or Move On? [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-147-your-legal-career-with-susanne-aronowitz-if-its-broke-fix-it-or-move-on]
 * ·       Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-142-winning-in-your-own-court-with-dena-lefkowitz]
 * ·       Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-139-conquering-perfectionism-in-the-practice-of-law-with-jordana-confino]
 * ·       Episode 124-Lauren Rikleen on Social Justice and Defending American Democracy [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-124-lauren-rikleen-on-social-justice-and-defending-american-democracy]
 * ·       Episode 119-From Law Firm Associate to In-House Operations-With Shawn Hoyt [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-119-from-law-firm-associate-to-in-house-operations-with-shawn-hoyt]
 * ·       Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-114-from-biglaw-to-in-house-to-business-role-and-back-again-with-carl-berglind]

Episode 157-Planning Your Exit From the Law

Counsel to Counsel is a periodic podcast produced by Stephen Seckler of Seckler Attorney Coaching (www.counseltocounsel.com). It addresses important career, marketing, and leadership issues facing attorneys. The target audience is associates, counsel and partners at law firms of all sizes; but the podcast also addresses issues that are relevant to in-house counsel, law students or any lawyer who is looking for career insights inside or outside of the law. Counsel to Counsel is aimed at individual lawyers who are looking to increase their own career satisfaction and build their marketing and leadership skills. The podcast features interviews with leading consultants, career professionals and marketing experts who advise attorneys on careers, marketing, law firm management and related issues. The guests are also a roster of successful attorneys who have found career satisfaction inside and outside the law. Counsel to Counsel is a direct outgrowth of the blog Counsel to Counsel which Stephen Seckler has been publishing since 2005. Since graduating from law school in the late 1980s, Stephen Seckler has been advising lawyers on career and marketing issues and working with a broad mix of law firms and corporate law departments. He began blogging when legal blogging was in its infancy and his blog Counsel to Counsel was named to the ABA Journal’s Blawg 100 in 2007 and 2008 (the first two years that list was in existence). Steve has written extensively on career and marketing issues and he has spoken at many law school, law firm and bar association events. He served on the Boston Bar Association’s Standing Committee on Work Life Balance and was Vice Chair of the Law Practice Management Section of the Massachusetts Bar Association. He is active in the Senior Lawyers Division of the American Bar Association, the ProVisors business network, and has been quoted frequently in the legal and business press.

Stephen Seckler

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