In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Mike Rossi [https://www.connkavanaugh.com/professionals/michael-j-rossi/], a partner at the law firm Conn Kavanaugh [https://www.connkavanaugh.com/] in Boston. Mike focuses on professional liability, business litigation, and advising lawyers and law firms on professional responsibility and risk management.

Together, they walk through the ethical and practical issues lawyers should think about when starting a new practice, especially the decisions that need to be made before a firm opens its doors.

The conversation begins with the obligations lawyers have when leaving a firm, including how to notify clients appropriately and why client choice matters. Mike explains the importance of handling departures harmoniously, avoiding premature client outreach, and understanding the fiduciary duties involved in a transition.

The episode explores marketing and business development and operational issues. Mike and Steve also discuss supervision responsibilities, the ethical use of AI tools, co-counsel arrangements, referral disclosures, and the risks that can arise when lawyers take on unfamiliar matters too quickly.

This episode is a reminder that a little prevention early on can save a lot of trouble later.

Key Takeaways

 * Leaving a firm starts with your obligations to the firm and your clients, not your new business plan.
 * Clients ultimately choose where their matters go, and a joint communication is the safest way to notify them.
 * Legal tech competence is part of modern professional competence, so your systems should be ready on day one.
 * IOLTA and trust accounting are high-risk areas for new solos and deserve careful setup before taking client funds.
 * Marketing must avoid false or misleading claims, especially around results, specialization, and expertise.
 * AI, supervision, and conflict checks all require active oversight; "set it and forget it" creates risk.

Key Topics

 * Ethical obligations when leaving a law firm and managing client relationships
 * How to navigate conflicts of interest, client notifications, and joint communications
 * Essential technology and systems for risk management, including trust accounts and practice management tools
 * Marketing and advertising rules: do's and don'ts for building your brand online
 * The role of AI and emerging technologies in legal practice and supervision responsibilities
 * Best practices for growth: supervision, hiring, and managing non-lawyer participation
 * Preparing for launch: conflict checks, IOLTA setup, and ethical pitfalls to avoid

Timestamps

00:40 - Responsibilities of law firm owners beyond client acquisition

01:37 - Ethical challenges: client intake, conflicts, and engagement letters

05:24 - ABA guidance on leaving a firm and client transition rules

06:16 - Client autonomy in choosing where matters go

12:08 - Ethical duty of technological competence and practice management tools

13:48 - Trust accounting: setting up compliant IOLTA accounts

16:13 - Advertising and online marketing rules

28:44 - Using AI tools responsibly and supervising outputs

Episode 180-Thinking About Starting Your Own Law Firm? Avoid These Ethical Mistakes (With Mike Rossi)

Many lawyers assume their career options begin and end with practicing law. In this episode, Steve speaks with Tony Waller, a lawyer, educator, former nonprofit CEO, and career development leader whose career demonstrates the many ways a legal education can lead to meaningful and rewarding work.

Tony discusses his journey from private practice to recruiting, law school career services, nonprofit leadership, and higher education administration. Along the way, he shares practical advice for lawyers and law students who are considering career transitions, searching for more meaningful work, or wondering how to leverage their legal skills outside of traditional practice.

Whether you're happy practicing law or considering a different path, this conversation will broaden your perspective on what a successful legal career can look like.

Key Takeaways

 * Your legal skills are highly transferable and can create opportunities well beyond traditional legal practice.
 * Career transitions are most successful when they're intentional rather than reactions to temporary dissatisfaction.
 * Lawyers need to become comfortable identifying and communicating the value they bring to employers and clients.
 * Law schools offer rewarding career paths in career development, student affairs, advancement, and administration.
 * Volunteer leadership and nonprofit board service can expand your network while developing valuable leadership skills.
 * Strong professional relationships often lead to career opportunities before positions are ever publicly posted.
 * Before making a career change, identify exactly what is making you unhappy so you don't repeat the same mistakes.
 * Career success isn't a race—focus on continuous growth rather than comparing your timeline to others.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and Tony Waller's unconventional legal career

04:05 Why Tony left legal practice and the transferable skills lawyers possess

12:05 Career opportunities for lawyers in law school administration

15:20 Transitioning into nonprofit leadership and serving as a CEO

20:30 Networking, relationship building, and the hidden job market

22:45 How legal career development has changed over the past two decades

25:00 Advice for lawyers considering a career transition

29:45 Final career advice and Tony's recommendation for the TV series Shrinking

Connect with Tony Waller

Tony Waller University of Georgia School of Law Email: twaller@uga.edu

Connect with Steve Seckler

To schedule a free 30-minute consultation or a

Episode 179: A Mission-Driven Legal Career with Tony Waller

In this episode, Steve sits down with Matt Miller [https://www.ascentcounsel.com/] to discuss Matt's unconventional journey from practicing lawyer to what he describes as an "accidental tourist" in legal recruiting. They explore why he doesn't subscribe to the familiar "recovering lawyer" narrative, what he has learned from observing thousands of legal careers, the surprising value of a legal education, and how our priorities, definitions of success, and career choices often evolve over time.



Matt is a lawyer, entrepreneur, recruiter, and legal industry innovator whose career has taken him through Big Law, boutique practice, law firm partnership, and an in-house role as General Counsel. Along the way, he founded a legal recruiting firm and more recently launched an AI-powered job search platform designed to help lawyers navigate their careers more effectively.



Whether you're considering going in-house, transitioning out of practice, or exploring entrepreneurship, Matt's insights challenge traditional narratives and offer practical guidance.



Key takeaways



 * A legal career can evolve in many directions, and those pivots can create unexpected opportunities.
 * Going in-house can be appealing, but timing and fit matter more than many lawyers realize.
 * Relationships and networking often shape careers more than formal plans do.
 * It helps to think long term about career decisions instead of reacting only to the next move.
 * Vulnerability, coaching, and honest conversations can create real clarity.
 * Lawyers have more flexibility than they think, especially when they stay open to new paths.



Timestamps



00:00 - Welcome and episode overview 01:07 - Matt's background and journey into law and entrepreneurship 03:44 - Early career choices and the move through private practice 07:00 - What lawyers should consider before transitioning in-house 14:10 - Intentionality versus opportunity-driven career moves 18:10 - Why relationships matter throughout a legal career



Links



 * Jolo.ai [https://jolo.ai/] – AI-powered legal job platform
 * Ascent Counsel [https://www.ascentcounsel.com/]

Episode 178-Becoming a Legal Recruiter: Navigating an Alternative Legal Career with Matt Miller

In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Dr. Sarah Alsaidi [https://www.sarahalsaidiconsulting.com/], a psychologist, executive coach, and creator of the Brain in Mind Method, a coaching framework that integrates neuroscience and psychology to help high-performing professionals better understand how their brains work and perform at their best.

Dr. Alsaidi explores the critical role of executive functioning in high-performing legal professionals. She demystifies how these mental skills influence productivity, resilience, and well-being, offering practical insights for lawyers and their organizations.

This episode offers a blend of neuroscience, practical coaching strategies, and insights into the unique challenges faced by legal professionals, making it a valuable listen for anyone looking to enhance their cognitive skills and resilience in high-stakes careers.

Key Takeaways:

 * Executive functioning is like the brain's CEO, involving skills such as planning, organization, and emotional regulation.
 * Microaggressions and cultural factors can significantly impact cognitive functions and focus.
 * Distinguishing between perfectionism and healthy ambition is crucial for sustainable performance.
 * Metacognition, or thinking about your thinking, is essential for identifying effective tools and strategies.
 * Emotional regulation is vital for managing stress and maintaining resilience in high-pressure environments.

Timestamps:

 * 00:00 - Introduction and guest background
 * 02:00 - Relevance of executive skills in legal practice
 * 04:00 - Impact of microaggressions and sociocultural factors on cognition
 * 06:50 - Behavior patterns linked to executive function challenges
 * 11:15 - The importance of giving tools time to work
 * 16:00 - Normalizing individual differences in the workplace
 * 23:00 - Practical tools for self-assessment and improvement
 * 30:00 - Supporting colleagues with executive functioning challenges

Episode 177-Understanding Executive Functioning and Its Impact on Lawyers' Performance

In this episode, Steve's guest, Paul Karvanis [https://karvanis.com/], delves into redefining success and happiness within the legal profession. Paul, a former lawyer turned coach, speaker, and author, shares his journey from practicing law to coaching, emphasizing the importance of aligning career goals with personal values.

His books, The Happy Lawyer and The Successful Associate, provide a roadmap for lawyers seeking fulfillment beyond traditional achievements. Paul discusses the traps lawyers often fall into, the significance of self-awareness, and the role of community and self-compassion in achieving sustainable success.

Key takeaways:

 * Success is personal; align work with your values for true satisfaction.
 * Sustainable happiness comes from action, not just awareness.
 * Adopt an ownership mindset for continuous growth and mastery.
 * Excellence requires a dynamic loop of reflection and action.
 * Build supportive communities and practice self-compassion for resilience.
 * Embrace imperfect action to overcome overthinking and accelerate growth.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction: Success vs. happiness in law

02:11 - Meet Paul Karvanis: Background and focus

05:38 - The Happy Lawyer Project origin

10:04 - Chasing traditional success vs. fulfillment

14:42 - Studying thriving lawyers

20:28 - Foundations for thriving: Community and self-compassion

26:29 - Why lawyers delay change until crises

35:25 - Correct work vs. useful work

Episode 176-What Makes for a Happy Lawyer or Successful Associate?

In this episode, Scott Love, a renowned legal recruiter and host of the Rainmaking Podcast, delves into the complexities of lateral partner transitions within law firms. Scott shares his wealth of experience, offering listeners a roadmap to navigate these high-stakes decisions effectively. From understanding the motivations behind partner moves to the strategic importance of building trust and conducting thorough due diligence, Scott provides actionable insights to help partners avoid common pitfalls and achieve successful transitions.

Key Takeaways:

 * Surge in Lateral Moves:

Discover why lateral moves are increasing and what firms are looking for in new partners.

 * Motivations for Change:

Explore common reasons for partner transitions, including leadership and strategy issues.

 * Building Trust:

Learn the importance of trust and relationship-building in legal business development.

 * Due Diligence:

Gain a step-by-step guide to assessing opportunities and avoiding costly mistakes.

 * Common Mistakes:

Understand the pitfalls partners often encounter, such as unrealistic expectations about client portability and integration challenges.

 * Successful Transitions:

Understand the role of process, connection points, and force multipliers in seamless integrations.

 * Ethics and Timing:

Learn about the ethical considerations and strategic timing crucial for minimizing risks.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to lateral partner movement 01:01 - Scott Love's background in legal recruiting 05:37 - Strategic reasons for partner moves 10:45 - Navigating moves effectively with a clear process 18:10 - Common mistakes in lateral moves 20:22 - What firms seek in new partners 26:47 - Trust-building and successful recruiting moves 35:20 - Final advice for partners considering a move

Resources:

 * Partners on the Move [http://partnersonthemove.com/] - Scott's process hub and resources
 * Rainmaking Podcast [https://rainmakingpodcast.com/] - Scott's podcast on business development for lawyers
 * 

Episode 175-Making Strategic Lateral Moves: Insights for Law Firm Partners from a Top Legal Recruiter

Self-awareness is an important and often overlooked skill in a lawyer's toolkit. Personality and behavioral assessments like DISC can be used in a practical, grounded way to help lawyers better understand their strengths, spot blind spots, improve communication, and show up more effectively with clients, colleagues, and prospects.

To unpack how these tools can be used well (and where they can be misused), Steve is joined in this episode by John Kormanik [http://johnrkormanik.com/], a Professional Certified Coach who works with lawyers around the world and the author of Break the Law: A Story of a Reimagined Career and a Reclaimed Life. Before launching his coaching practice, John spent more than 20 years as a practicing attorney, including serving as a Deputy Attorney General, working in private practice, and owning and leading his own law firm for 16 years. This experience informs his practical approach to helping lawyers lead with intention.

Key Takeaways:

 * Self-awareness is crucial for lawyers to enhance leadership and client relationships.
 * DISC assessments help improve communication within legal teams.
 * Understanding natural vs. adapted states can help overcome fixed mindsets.
 * Cultural experiences can significantly influence communication styles.
 * Networking and continuous personal evolution are vital for career success.
 * Introverts and extroverts can expand their influence by being authentic.
 * Assessments are tools for awareness, not fixed definitions of personality.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to self-awareness in legal coaching

01:02 - John Kormanik's career path from attorney to coach

03:16 - How John works with lawyer clients and addressing leadership challenges

05:58 - Embracing international practice and client acquisition

09:11 - Building international networks through events, workshops, and online platforms

13:23 - How legal experience shapes coaching approach and pushing clients

18:39 - Deep dive into DISC components and their application

23:38 - Clarifying DISC components: D, I, S, C

28:56 - Effective moments and applications of assessments in legal practice

35:01 - Continuous growth and the importance of not defining oneself by assessments

Episode 174-How Self-Awareness Increases Your Effectiveness in Managing Your Legal Team

In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Amy Mariani [https://www.marianimediation.com], a Boston-based mediator and former litigator. She shares her deeply personal journey navigating her professional life alongside caring for her mother with dementia. Her story offers valuable guidance for professionals facing similar challenges, emphasizing resilience, resources, and the importance of community.

This episode underscores the importance of early planning, community support, and embracing the skills caregiving can foster, all while balancing a demanding career. Whether you're in the midst of caregiving or preparing for it ahead of time, Amy's insights and resources offer valuable guidance.

Note: Amy appeared on Counsel to Counsel in 2021 when she was in the midst of her family crisis. At that time, she only spoke about her transition to mediation; but clearly a lot was going on then in her personal life. You can listen here or wherever you get your podcasts. Episode 75-Shifting Your Litigation Practice to Mediation [https://counseltocounsel.libsyn.com/episode-75-shifting-your-litigation-practice-to-mediation]

Main Topics:

 * The emotional and logistical complexities of caring for an aging parent with dementia
 * How caregiving impacts professional life and work-life balance
 * The benefits of family communication, mediating sibling relationships, and utilizing caregiver resources

Key Insights:

 * Amy's early recognition of her mother's dementia symptoms and the timeline of care
 * The role of senior care managers in easing decision-making and reducing familial conflict
 * Strategies for professionals to continue working effectively while caregiving
 * The importance of establishing plans early, including involving future generations and professionals
 * How caregiving enhances skills like patience, active listening, and emotional resilience—valuable assets for mediators and others
 * Creating support networks, such as groups for children of aging parents, to share experiences and resources
 * The societal need for more open discussion about aging and eldercare support

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction: Focus of the episode and guest background 02:23 - Amy's experience caring for her parents during the pandemic 05:26 - Explanation of the "sandwich generation" and caregiving responsibilities 06:32 - How Amy's caregiving journey began and evolving challenges 09:07 - Recognizing early symptoms and family dynamics in caregiving 21:12 - How caregiving improved Amy's sk

Episode 173-Managing a Demanding Career While Caring for an Aging Parent

In this episode, Gary Miles delves into the pervasive issue of burnout in the legal profession and offers practical strategies for establishing healthy boundaries. Drawing from his extensive experience, Gary discusses the role of perfectionism and fear in contributing to lawyer stress and burnout. He emphasizes the importance of shifting from external validation to internal authority, which can significantly impact mental well-being and career satisfaction.

The conversation also explores the concept of sustainable excellence, encouraging lawyers to redefine success and create practices that align with their personal values. Gary shares personal transformation stories and provides actionable steps for lawyers feeling trapped by their success or struggling with career transitions. This episode is a must-listen for legal professionals seeking to build a fulfilling and sustainable career.

Takeaways:

 * Understanding how perfectionism and fear contribute to burnout
 * Implementing effective boundary-setting techniques
 * Shifting from external to internal authority for better mental health
 * Redefining success through sustainable excellence
 * Practical advice for lawyers facing career transitions
 * The importance of delegation and team-building to reduce stress
 * Debunking the myth of immediate responsiveness

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction: Addressing lawyer burnout and the importance of boundaries 01:33 - Exploring dissatisfaction despite career success 06:42 - Setting healthy boundaries in legal practice 13:50 - How internal versus external authority influences self-worth and stress 20:46 - Achieving sustainable excellence through delegation and building teams 25:15 - The four pillars for evaluating a fulfilling legal career 30:46 - One simple, actionable step for setting boundaries this week

Resources & Links:

 * Gary Miles - Website [https://garymiles.net/]
 * Gary Miles - LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/garymiles/]
 * Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers (Massachusetts) [https://lclma.org/]
 * Lawyers Assistance Program - National Association of State Legal Assistance Programs [https://nalsap.org/]

Connect with Gary Miles:

 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/garymiles/]
 * Email [gary@garymiles.net]

If you found this episode helpful, please share it with colleagues and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. For a personalized coaching session, visit secler.com for a free 30-minute consultation.

Episode 172-Boundaries, Burnout, and Building a Sustainable Legal Career with Gary Miles

Legal operations has evolved from a back-office function into a strategic discipline that is reshaping how legal services are delivered. In this conversation, Stephen Seckler speaks with legal operations consultant Jeff Kruse about how technology, process improvement, and artificial intelligence are transforming the way law firms and legal departments work.

Jeff shares insights from his career path, from product liability defense lawyer to in-house chief litigation officer and eventually a legal operations consultant. The discussion explores how legal operations helps organizations improve efficiency, manage risk, and adapt to rapid technological change.

They also discuss how lawyers considering career transitions can leverage their transferable skills in new roles such as legal operations, consulting, or mediation. The episode concludes with a look at the future of legal operations and why the field is becoming increasingly strategic in law firms and corporate legal departments.

Key Takeaways

 * Legal operations has evolved from a back-office function into a strategic discipline
 * AI is accelerating change in legal departments and law firms
 * Process improvements often start with the people doing the day-to-day work
 * "Trickle-up improvementnomics" can improve efficiency across an organization
 * Change management is often the biggest obstacle to operational improvements
 * Lawyers possess transferable skills that apply beyond practicing law
 * Redundancy and backup systems are essential for managing technological risk
 * Legal operations is becoming increasingly strategic within law firms and corporate legal departments

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and why legal operations is now critical 01:03 Jeff Kruse's background and career path 02:20 From law firm partner to in-house litigation leadership 06:16 Jeff's work as a mediator and what it taught him 08:18 Remote and hybrid work in legal teams before the pandemic 10:11 How remote work influences legal operations thinking 11:12 What legal operations actually includes 14:07 AI and the accelerating pace of change in the legal industry 15:44 Can small firms and legal departments keep up with AI? 19:23 Technology consolidation and evaluating legal tech vendors 21:10 What a legal hold is and why it matters 23:00 "Trickle-Up Improvementnomics" and operational efficiency 27:01 Why change management is difficult in legal organizations 34:01 Lessons from the Amazon Web Services outage 37:45 The future of legal operations 40:37 Closing remarks and coaching resources

Episode 171-A Career in Legal Operations with Jeff Kruse

Counsel to Counsel is a periodic podcast produced by Stephen Seckler of Seckler Attorney Coaching (www.counseltocounsel.com). It addresses important career, marketing, and leadership issues facing attorneys. The target audience is associates, counsel and partners at law firms of all sizes; but the podcast also addresses issues that are relevant to in-house counsel, law students or any lawyer who is looking for career insights inside or outside of the law. Counsel to Counsel is aimed at individual lawyers who are looking to increase their own career satisfaction and build their marketing and leadership skills. The podcast features interviews with leading consultants, career professionals and marketing experts who advise attorneys on careers, marketing, law firm management and related issues. The guests are also a roster of successful attorneys who have found career satisfaction inside and outside the law. Counsel to Counsel is a direct outgrowth of the blog Counsel to Counsel which Stephen Seckler has been publishing since 2005. Since graduating from law school in the late 1980s, Stephen Seckler has been advising lawyers on career and marketing issues and working with a broad mix of law firms and corporate law departments. He began blogging when legal blogging was in its infancy and his blog Counsel to Counsel was named to the ABA Journal’s Blawg 100 in 2007 and 2008 (the first two years that list was in existence). Steve has written extensively on career and marketing issues and he has spoken at many law school, law firm and bar association events. He served on the Boston Bar Association’s Standing Committee on Work Life Balance and was Vice Chair of the Law Practice Management Section of the Massachusetts Bar Association. He is active in the Senior Lawyers Division of the American Bar Association, the ProVisors business network, and has been quoted frequently in the legal and business press.

Stephen Seckler

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