Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Free Weekly Pod - Max Allegri War, Bologna - Juventus Thriller, Suning Lose Inter Milan, Preview Europa League Final & Much More (Ep. 419)
2k Plays2 years ago
From Max Allegri war with Juventus, Riccardo Calafiori stars in Bologna and Juve 6 goal thriller draw, Suning losing ownership of Inter Milan to Oaktree, Inter lift Serie A trophy in magical day at San Siro, Lazio continue to impress under Igor Tudor, Romelu Lukaku hero for Roma securing 6th, to Gianluca Scamacca stars for Atalanta, great freekicks in Fiorentina draw with Napoli, AC Milan on holiday in loss to Torino, and Sassuolo relegated as Hellas Verona, Cagliari and Lecce stay up as Frosinone, Udinese and Empoli in relegation dogfight plus previewing Atalanta clash with Bayer Leverkusen in Europa League final on Wednesday in Aviva Stadium in Dublin, as well as Baggio, Premface and Serie Ass of the week and much, much more when Nima and Carlo break down all the main talking points from an action-packed weekend in Italian football.
Every Monday episode of The Italian Football Podcast is free for all.
To NEVER miss an episode of The Italian Football Podcast (as well as support the show), go to Patreon.com/TIFP or on Spotify to become a Patron for only $2.99 USD per month (excluding VAT).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Italian Football Podcast, the official podcast of Football Italia. I'm Carlo Carganese, joined as always by Nima Tavalli. On today's show, a lot to talk about. We'll review the weekend seria action of an ultimate weekend of seria.
The Sacking of Max Allegri
00:00:24
Speaker
And we will, though, start off with Max Alegri's Sacking. Bologna In Events has played out a six-goal thriller on Monday evening.
00:00:32
Speaker
Atalanta bounced back from their Coppertalia final defeat to Juventus by qualifying for the Champions League.
00:00:39
Speaker
will preview their Europa League final against Bayern Leverkusen. Roma have clinched sixth place and they now need Atalanta to do them a big favour if they are to qualify for the Champions League themselves. Lazio spoiled Inter's skeletal party, which Nima was at. But Inter's ownership chaos is all that anyone is talking about.
Inter Ownership Chaos Explained
00:01:01
Speaker
We'll get Nima to do a little explainer about what's happening there with Suning and Oaktree and everything.
00:01:09
Speaker
Napoli's winless run continues at Fiorentina. Milan's coaching chase hots up as they can't wait now for the season to end, losing to Torino. And the relegation race, Cessuolo have been relegated while there are three teams at risk of becoming the last team to drop down to Serie B on the final day of the season this coming weekend. We also have our usual Baggio prem face in Serie S of the week.
00:01:36
Speaker
For all our first time listeners, this is our free weekly episode that we do usually every Monday. Today we're doing it on Tuesday, reviewing the weekend cellular action and all the biggest talking points in Italian football. If you want to support the Italian football podcast and receive all of our content that we do throughout the week, including a weekly Q and A episode.
Supporting the Podcast
00:01:52
Speaker
usually every Tuesday this week, probably Wednesday, where we answer all the questions from our patrons, plus the weekly Thursday midweek review show, plus interviews, post-match reaction, and much, much more, then go to patreon.com, slash TIP, and become a subscriber, which is $2.99 a month, plus VAT. And you can also sign up to be a paid subscriber now on Spotify. We'll provide the link in the description. It's the same price and same terms. And for all of you who do listen on Spotify, Apple, and iTunes Podcast, we'd really appreciate it. If you give us a five-star rating, give us a follow and a like.
00:02:21
Speaker
We're on a YouTube as well so subscribe there and that all helps us to really grow and do more content for you guys. Okay, so let's get into today's show.
Implications of Allegri's Dismissal
00:02:32
Speaker
Okay, so before we discuss Juventus versus Bologna, which was a thrilling match, just a little discussion on Max Allegri because he was sacked on Friday while Nima was on his way to Milan. So Nima hasn't had his chance to have his say on this. I did do though a short snap reaction on my phone on Friday of the evening.
00:03:00
Speaker
Um, where I, I gave some, some, uh, just some initial thoughts really for this, but I mean, it's moved on since then now, but I mean, at the time, I think there were two big talking points. I just want to get your, your viewpoint on that. Number one was, um, the way that it was handled by Juventus, um, even the most allegory out of people.
00:03:26
Speaker
ranged from saying this wasn't the way to do things to it should have been done in a different way so I want to get your first of all what's your viewpoint on that and secondly where do you see this going from now it's gonna get really ugly isn't it never it's gonna get very ugly because like I said last week
00:03:50
Speaker
on Thursday after we, after the Copa Italia final, I said, look, you have to remember that Max Allegri is Andrea Niali's, one of his
Juventus Ownership Dynamics
00:04:00
Speaker
best friends. They're very close. They, you know, the legendary, you know, morning runs and breakfasts they had for all the years that Andrea Niali was in charge of Juva. We know that there is hardly any love lost between, uh, the Elkan wing and the Aniele wing of, of the family.
00:04:20
Speaker
So, it's, you know, he doesn't really risk anything because his loyalty lies with Andrea Nieli. So there's that aspect of it as well. But you would, you know, it would be ridiculous and incredibly disingenuous to sit here and pretend that this was not a, this was well handled.
00:04:49
Speaker
uh by uva and the way that juntoli decides to take you know one of the first major decisions that he decides to take is to go to war with max allegory we're talking about someone who has won five skoredeti five copitalia three supercopa two champions league finals that is that makes allegory by definition a uventus legendary coach
00:05:19
Speaker
And that he decides to go like this and starts talking about certain behaviors in that ridiculous statement. Certain behaviors are not acceptable. It's just, on the one hand, it is very typical Juve, because at Juve, you know, if they kick out Alessandro del Piero, they can unceremoniously kick out Max Allegri.
00:05:47
Speaker
Juve, Juve is the most important thing. And by that, it's this kind of il padron, a chair, this thing where I always talk about how in Italy, psychologically, Italy is still a feudal country.
Critique of Juventus' Handling of Allegri
00:06:01
Speaker
It's still a feudalistic country. And that is something that we saw an example of again, but at the same time, it should never have come to this.
00:06:13
Speaker
It should never have become this infected. And the fact that it was, that it became this infected, that it became this toxic is also part on Juve. They should be, they are a club that usually doesn't allow for these things to happen. These things happen elsewhere, but not at Juve, but it did happen. And, and, and, and the fact that it did happen and that he exploded the way that he did.
00:06:40
Speaker
that, you know, it was, it was, you know, at the same time, it's Allegri, you have to respect him. And he was not respected. This was someone who was constantly for three years unprotected at Juve, which is very, very unlike, which is very, very not typical of Juve. And they're very good at controlling the narrative. And the fact that, again, the Tuto Sport director, the head boss at Tuto Sport, which is essentially Juve's paper, fanzine,
00:07:08
Speaker
came out on the record and said all these things that he did he would never have done that if Juve had not given the green light and the fact that they gave the green light speaks volumes and I think he was incredibly unworthy of of Allegri and his tenure at Juve I think Juve kind of crossed the line here this Juve crossed the line here that I don't think can be
00:07:34
Speaker
can be unwashed or it's a spot that will not out. And I think for as long as the Elkan and Juntoli era persists, this is something that will come back to hurt them politically, definitely, because Allegri is extremely well-liked in Italian football. He has very, very many, very, very powerful friends, not just in the media, but in Italian football.
00:08:02
Speaker
And this was not how they wanted it to end. What they wanted was for him to parade around in the last home game at the U of S stadium and say his goodbye to the fans. They wanted a worthy exit. They did not want this.
00:08:17
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with quite a lot of that. I think it was very cold, the way that they did it, and to deny him a kind of a good buy as well, I think is bad. The only thing I can think of is maybe after everything that happened on the, after the Coppertalia final, forget the stuff with the Tutor Sport Director. I don't think that really played much into it, to be honest with you. I think what Juventus didn't like was, and we've had it confirmed now that, you know,
00:08:46
Speaker
He went against Jun Cili on the pitch, told him to go away. I mean, that's been confirmed now. So there's clearly, you know, we know that that relationship was, there was no relationship by the end and that they don't like it, but whether they saw that there was going to be more of this in the last,
00:09:06
Speaker
two weeks of the season. And it was just no, that was not going to happen. And it was going to become a circus. No, no, no, that was not going to happen. That was that was a burst spur of the moment thing by him and because it was raw human emotion. There was nothing planned about that.
00:09:21
Speaker
That was completely him just being overwhelmed by that and basically, you know, saying, you know, damn you all. But if that was, I mean, if that's the case, then I think it's cold. But I mean, we don't know that. But look, you can't do that. But at the same time, you can't do that. No, no, no, no. Well, no one's condoning what he did. I mean, obviously, you know, what he did, I don't think anyone's condoning what he did. That was wrong. But you know, but that does happen.
00:09:46
Speaker
but for me no no but for me the thing i i look at it is i think the mistake was happened earlier i go to the root of the issue and the root of the issue is that ever since juntoly took over he's been alone he's been he's not been protected i mean you can't really blame anyone after after the previous i don't know if i agree with that because publicly after the
00:10:11
Speaker
Let me just finish. I'm not talking about publicly. I'm talking about how Yuva operates. Yuva operates like the Mafia. They protect everyone who works at Yuva, whether they like them or not. That's just how Yuva has always worked. But since Juntoly took over, I'm not talking about the interim period before when the previous board resigned in disgrace after a SWAT team burst in. No, because that was unheard of. I'm talking about from the minute that Juntoly came in,
00:10:36
Speaker
The way it was evident that Juntali was going to get rid of Allegri.
Allegri's Media Protection Issues
00:10:40
Speaker
He was a dead man walking throughout all of this, all the rumors about him extending Allegri was nonsense. And I said, so on this part at the time, there's no chance of happening. And that of itself is not how it works at UVA. You are when you work there as the head coach from the minute you're there to the very end.
00:10:58
Speaker
you are protected and he wasn't. He was not protected. I disagree about the protection from him completely. He was not protected by the club. I disagree with that. I think if you look at the media, he was very protected, very protected. Even by Tutor Sport, the criticism against Allegri in the Italian media was virtually non-existent, considering Juventus have set negative record off the negative record
00:11:18
Speaker
No, there was. It was not non-existent. It was very, very... It wasn't. I'm sorry. I completely disagree with that. Even Toutosport a little bit, but I'm sorry. It was, you know, until recently where it's becoming possible not to criticise Allegri because of the results.
00:11:34
Speaker
But most of these three years and even since Junstly come, he's been so protected. And that's something that's been alluded to. I hate to use Antonio Cassano as an example. That's one of the only things Cassano has ever said. You said yourself, Allegri has lots of friends within the media.
00:11:49
Speaker
He has lots of friends in the media. Even the press conferences with journalists, he never gets asked, never ever has been asked the questions that he should have been asked during these three years about the most basic of things like why do you not create any chances? Why is the attack so bad? Why does play? He never gets asked these questions.
00:12:05
Speaker
he's been very protected in the media and publicly, publicly, publicly, let me finish, let me finish, publicly Junzli has always, has always defended. What happens behind closed doors is another matter, yes, I'm sure, I'm sure, behind closed doors, behind closed doors, he's obviously not... That's just not true, Carlo, though, because I've seen how Italian media have covered you, where there's different ways of going, you can go, you can do phare polemica to his face and throw shit at him, but I have watched
00:12:35
Speaker
how Ravanelli, how Del Piero, how all of these JUVA icons have sat in sport media and have ripped shred by shred Juventus under Allegri for how they play it in the pitch. That would never happen
00:12:52
Speaker
If he was protected by the club, it would never exist in a million years. The Juventus icons will go out on TV and talk about how abysmal you are. I don't think Ravinelli and Del Piero have ever watched them. I have watched them week after week after week talk about how poor you've a play, how poor they are. That's not an opinion. That is an empirical fact. There are different ways that you can criticize.
00:13:17
Speaker
of course you can of course they're gonna say that they're not playing well because you're not playing well not playing well not playing well again listen to what I'm saying the nuances in what I'm saying
00:13:30
Speaker
In Italy, things sometimes how you say and what you say, but also what you do not say is just as important. They never criticized him by name. They never went against him when he was there doing interviews. But what they did do was rip Juventus how they played under Allegri, especially since Giuntoli took over limb by limb. Okay.
00:13:51
Speaker
That to me is very extraordinary and that is what has pissed him off. That would never have happened in a normal situation. I'm sorry, I disagree with that. The football politics of Italian football dictate, especially at a club like that.
00:14:10
Speaker
I don't think that happened at all. I know what happened. I don't think it happened at all. And I think it's the other way around. But what I do think and what I agree with is I think he feels within the club that they haven't been open and honest with him. And I mean, that's what's come out in the last few days as well, that he feels that they weren't open. In fact, that's actually said that they've said publicly that they've backed him. Like Junzli, what he said, he's our coach, blah, blah, blah.
00:14:37
Speaker
Gensilie even said a few months ago, they were planning for the future with him publicly, but privately, he's been given no assurances over his future. But that's just natural. I mean, of course it's natural. I mean, it's obvious. It's obvious from the day Gensilie took over that these two people are completely different people. Gensilie and Lake, we work in completely different ways. We've seen that. That's fair enough. The visions of football are different. So I mean, that's to be expected. And this is what happens whenever
00:15:18
Speaker
You know, historically you don't, you have them maybe criticized for one game. You have been criticized over today was not, they had a difficult game, but you do not have former club legends at that club. Come out and say that you were playing today, played incredibly poor. They didn't do this. They didn't do that. And then when Allegry comes on, they don't ask him about it. Like this is so demonstratively where they are showing respect to the club, but they are not
00:15:27
Speaker
But that's not what we see, that's not what happens.
00:15:45
Speaker
You know, but they're making their points to him. They, he was not critically attacked by, that's not what I'm saying. Listen again to the nuance that I'm making. I'm saying the way that you are criticized is different to the way that other clubs are. And when you historically in Italy, and when you have club icons at these big TV stations, talk about you or the way that they have says juntily took over when the results have been bad. That has never happened before. Not in this way.
00:16:11
Speaker
And the fact that is part of the things that he's pissed off about, that he feels he's not been protected at you, but that's not how it works. And that he is 100% right in. Now, the way that he handled that post-copitalia, where he threatened to rip off people's ears and punch them in the face and you, you effing a-hole, you go away. And that's not how you handle it.
00:16:31
Speaker
But the frustration was there and it was built up through this entire year, since Giuntoli took over, because Giuntoli made it absolutely clear from day one, he was not going to continue with Allegri. He was not going to protect him. And I said so at the time that I don't care what they talk about planning with the future. I don't care what he says publicly. I don't believe that he will continue past this season. And I think it was obvious. And that's what happened. And that to me was where the mistake or the
00:16:57
Speaker
abnormal behavior. I think I think what I think what you've done wrong is they should have just let him see out the season and they should have given him the chance to at least you know, help parade the trophy and say goodbye to the to like to the ultras, for example, who absolutely worship his feet, not that they the ultras deserve anything like despise them. But but you know, at least give him the chance to go out with some dignity, whatever you think of him.
00:17:19
Speaker
But it's not him going out with dignity. It's, it's a little bit like it's also the optics of it. Like you would end the season on a positive note. Yes, everything. I agree. I agree with you. That is where I think that the Juventus, you know, and I think you said that Allegri acted hastily. I think maybe Juventus acted hastily as well. Why did they have to act so soon? Like it was already clear. I knew by Thursday morning. They had to do that. I knew by Thursday morning. Their hands were forced.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah, but their hands were forced. I mean, when he publicly, the way that he goes against the club directors and that way that he did and told people. And that's what I think was the key thing. I don't think it was the tutor sport thing. I think it was the directors. No, I don't think it was the tutor sport thing. And I didn't say that it was the tutor sport thing. I use that as an example of.
00:18:04
Speaker
showing that the fact that it was leaked was because Juventus wanted it to be leaked. If Juventus did not want it to be leaked, nobody would have found out about it. Not in the way that the actual director goes out and writes it and says it publicly. This happened, he told me this. I haven't said that though, I have to give the other side. While I've said it, while I think Juventus should have done this differently and he should have been able to finish the season, I do also think that Allegri
00:18:30
Speaker
He can't complain too much because, as I said on my post-match, he's very, very lucky to have still been Juventus' coach now. If he was any other coach, he would have been sacked long ago. And so for him to get to this stage and then feel bitter about not getting another season or bitter for getting sacked, yes, the way that it happened was wrong. It should have been done in a different way. But he's lucky to have got here.
00:19:00
Speaker
Anyway, so the first Juventus game after Allegri is sacked is against Bologna, which was actually a big big game for the race for third place.
Juventus vs Bologna Match Recap
00:19:12
Speaker
in the league. Paolo Montero filled in as interim coach, as he will for the final game of the season against Monterr as well. This was an absolutely insane game, insane ending, insane comeback. Juventus 3-0 down, completely outplayed for 75 minutes, abysmal performance for 75 minutes. And then just come back in the last 15 minutes to score three goals, almost win it as well, to almost win it 4-3. This was, first of all, just, I mean,
00:19:42
Speaker
unbelievable match. Unbelievable match to watch. And the comeback at the end, Kiesa scoring, Millec scoring, Yield is coming on scoring, Paolo Montero's subs work in three goals in seven minutes. But before that, the first 75 minutes were horrendous. They were, they looked shell shocked. But then Bologna kind of
00:20:09
Speaker
It feels like I really can't take this game, these games too seriously because they really did feel like these games just felt like it was a kickabout. Like it was, there was no, there was no structure, season's over. Juvis season ended against in the Copa Italia final. They're in the Champions League. They don't really care. It was walkabout. Bologna were fired. They were happy.
00:20:37
Speaker
And because they made the Champions League and they were going to have an a party in the stadium and they played really well. And then, you know, Juva for 15 minutes decided to to make it respectable because losing three nil away to Bologna is never respectable.
00:20:53
Speaker
And I don't know, I don't really, I can't really, there's not really too much to take away. I mean, what would have been interesting is if Tiago Motta had played against Allegri, but after what happened midweek, that kind of, that was killed. So there's not really that much to take. It was an entertaining game for end of season game for fans to watch, but I can't really analyze it more than that because of the structure. Until the last 15 minutes, Juventus looked like their mind just wasn't on the game at all. And then obviously the second.
00:21:22
Speaker
Eos probably played a part in that and players just weren't even, I mean, they were walking around the pitch at some point. Well, that's what I mean. It was a kick about with your mates. Like it was, it was, it was lads in the park having a kick about with a ball. Like that's the vibe I got from most of the games this weekend, to be honest. The XG in the first half for Juventus was, was lower than any time during the Lakerys spell. 0.01 XG, almost the zero XG the first half.
00:21:57
Speaker
It would have been a beautiful tribute to Max Allegri if that was if they'd scored off that that would have been that would have been a tribute to Allegri. 0.0. They didn't even get into their half in the first. If you want to tribute Allegri you have a
00:22:13
Speaker
Your expected goals is 0.0 and you managed to score somehow. That is a tribute to Ali. I think this was more about Bologna, like 75 minutes. It was a masterclass for Bologna. And then they just, Callifuri came off, who I'll come on to in a second, but they were 3-0 up after 75 minutes. It should have been 6.
00:22:37
Speaker
Then kind of fury came off I saw like when you see that substitution a couple of players come on they were players they were smiling and laughing and when they were coming on the two players that came on and it just looked like Bologna just kind of lost concentration and just you know they just thought the game was won and and that's all it takes they made a dreadful mistake for the 3-1
00:22:58
Speaker
uh and um but until then i think motto showed horrible shocking defending motto showed really what he can do it you know you know the high press winning the ball back early i mean they within 60 seconds they robbed the Juventus of the ball in the area and they should have scored dominating the possession and territory that patterns have played the way that they build up from the back building it up through the field the patterns the the angles
00:23:21
Speaker
the movement of the ball. I mean, it was amazing. It was amazing football. And that was just having no zirksi playing, no Ferguson, you know, missing their two best attacking players. And they still did this Castro made his full debut. And I thought it was really, really good. You know, so I think this this kind of shows that when you have a system like motto has, everybody understands it almost doesn't matter who plays like it's like Aspirini in Atlanta.
00:23:46
Speaker
as well and deservedly when he's at his best. Like, when you have a system that everybody understands, then whoever comes in, and I think that's what, from Juventus' point of view, that's what they'll be hoping for with Motta next season, that he can put together a system that everybody understands, because that's something that Juventus just haven't really had in terms of
Pressure on Tiago Motta
00:24:05
Speaker
constructive. Here's the thing, though. Here's the thing, though, like, with that, and I mean, I think it's unfair on Motta
00:24:15
Speaker
because I think there's going to be extreme amounts of pressure. And I think it's going to be that's just the name of the game. You come to you, you come to into you, come to Milan, you have to deliver on day from day one. There's not a lot of there's not a lot of patience there. But at the same time, there is a risk involved in what you have done here. And that is when you sack, regardless of the context of it, when you sack a coach that has won 13, 14 trophies at you.
00:24:44
Speaker
and you bring in someone like that and even if he does well but he doesn't win anything and by well I mean he starts playing that kind of modern football that you want him to play but he doesn't win anything that can disrupt what UVA is because UVA has always been about the results you've have never been playing beautiful football you know UVA the only thing that matters is winning
00:25:10
Speaker
that's it no matter how it looks that to me is something that I wanted to that to me I wanted to talk about broadly this this episode about how the times are changing unprecedentedly um in Italian football in the sense that Italian teams can't behave like that anymore no and and well not just that but just the identity crisis where
00:25:32
Speaker
Milan used to be what they used to be under Berlusconi, that's no longer true. Inter being crazy and dysfunctional under Morati is no longer true. Juva being ruthless and winning is no longer true, where the only thing matters is winning. These things are no longer true.
00:25:51
Speaker
And things are really really changing at least that's where I think we're going towards I'm not saying that it's not gonna happen. I'm just saying that There's a lot of truths that no longer are true at least not this season and and I think moving forward I think that's where in general again broadly speaking that
00:26:13
Speaker
football clubs nowadays, and football management teams need to adapt, and football coaches and football players need to adapt to the realities of how the game has changed. And that, and the same goes with, you know, traditional, you know, as much as it pains me to say it, because I grew up on, on Italian football being, you know, playing in the same way, you know, defensively being the best and, and then being the smartest and the best defensively and then, you know, and
00:26:41
Speaker
the fact that, well, that doesn't really, generally doesn't work anymore in modern football. And they say, and I think in the same sense, what you're saying, like Juventus historically, it's been all about the result and nothing else. Well, again, they're going to have to change in order to be successful. And that means that, you know, they have to accept that next season. And I think that most people looking at where Juventus are starting from and what they do realize it.
00:27:05
Speaker
they are not going to be, uh, uh, Scudetto favorites next season. They might have to give them a year, but if we, as long as we see, and this is what I, this is what has been my biggest frustration, as long as we see that gradual development, even if it's
00:27:18
Speaker
you know, they might even finish fifth this season, even if it's from fifth to third, but we see an improvement in the play, the players are improving, you can see that something's being built, then I think most fans, anyway, can only speak for fans, will accept that. But there is a danger in that, and that just needs to be acknowledged, that when you mess with a club's culture, when you mess with a club's DNA,
00:27:45
Speaker
like that. There is a risk involved. You can do that at Mapoli, but you can't do that at Juva. And I think that unless Junto is careful, he'll be out the door just like Allegri as well.
00:27:58
Speaker
because at YUVA, the thing, and as long as, you know, Andre Agnelli is on the sidelines, he will be using his political power to make this point.
Juventus Balancing Long-term Projects
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think you can only speak about projects for so long. Yeah, we always hear this word project, we've got a, or plan, we've got a three year plan, we've got a five year plan, like,
00:28:17
Speaker
First, the starters at a big club like Juventus, like Inter, like Milan, or any of the super clubs in Europe, you know, you don't have a five year plan with a club like that can have a three year plan the most probably so that the number of years is shorter for starters. But then secondly,
00:28:33
Speaker
you can only go use that word project and plan for so for as long as you're seeing progress. And as soon as it starts to fall apart, then he gets like with 10 hat, like 10 haggity many night, but last year, people were happy to give him the benefit of the doubt first year because you know, it's a three year plan or whatever. And the first year they won the league cup and say okay, they're building and then this year, you see everything falls apart. And now it's basically over after two years and he's not going to get the three years.
00:29:00
Speaker
Which is so funny too, because if he wins the FA Cup, then he would have won them two trans people. Exactly. And that's what I mean. As long as we're seeing progress and we're seeing improvement in terms of performance, and of course points does come into that as well, then
00:29:18
Speaker
then we can persist with it. But only for so long, you know, the top is a good example, but Liverpool, you know, it was disaster in his first year and a bit at Liverpool, but they persisted with it. And then look what happened afterwards. So, you know, it's, it's a difficult balancing act. It is difficult balancing act. But you know, I think it's as much down to juntily, well, juntily, which I think you're saying more than motto, I think the transfer market is going to be the key for Juventus.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, this is going to be like he's he's taking like, I mean, on the one hand, it's very brave. And I think if you are at a club like you've entered a meal, and you have to be brave, you have to be wise, you have to pick your battles, you have to be diplomatic, all of these things, right. So it's it really is squeaky bum time for junctally already this summer. And I think we're going to see a lot of things at at UVA, I think.
00:30:08
Speaker
I think there's going to be quite a few changes. Yeah, for sure. And we'll definitely come to that. And that's something he's really good at. And that's something he's really good at. Yeah, well, yeah, for sure. We will come to that on the following episodes and also for Bologna as well. They've got a big summer as well if they lose plays. I do want to just very quickly single out Riccardo Califiori because this was his performance of the season. He was absolutely incredible in this game. Defensively, he was
00:30:37
Speaker
he didn't. Vlovic completely dominated, not that Vlovic got much service, but he completely dominated. But he also showed why he's such a modern defender by what he did going the other way. He scored two goals, two great finishes. The second goal, I mean, what a finish with his weaker foot.
00:30:57
Speaker
the the composure to think that over the over the goalkeeper. But that second goal kind of just summed up what kind of theory is. I mean, a brilliant interception on I'm not sure I remember who it was, but the brilliant interception. And then he follows his run and then he and then and then he scores and he is such so great. I mean, he's in his second in Serie A for interceptions this season and he's in the 93rd percentile.
00:31:23
Speaker
for aerial duels one he's so good in the air he's in the 92nd percentile for his progressive run so the way that he the way that he gets the ball comes out of the fence he's so good at breaking the press like when the attackers press and he's in the 85th percentile for passes for passes completed and he's such a great modern defender so good physically so good technically um so good on the ball
00:31:49
Speaker
And, you know, Juventus, he is Juventus' main target. I think Juventus will hope his price hasn't gone up after this performance. But I think you see the difference between him and Bremmer in this game. Bremmer defensively is fantastic. He's brilliant, but he's more of an old-fashioned, old-school defender, and he only defends. And the third goal is the perfect example of the difference between these two plays. Bremmer come out with the ball, he did a terrible hospital pass,
00:32:18
Speaker
totally wrong kind of pass. And I don't know which play it was, where, where Calipari was coming up from him and he, and he intercepted and took the ball off. And that was as much Bremmer's fault for doing a, for doing a bad pass out of the fence. That's not how you bring the ball out and use the ball and Bremmer on the ball is really bad. And, and yeah, whereas Calipari is the complete opposite. So it's interesting because Bremmer might be sacrificed this summer.
00:32:42
Speaker
For a lot of money in order to bring in to then bring in color fury and just looking at the way the motor places football and you want his place to be able to use the ball i know that's something that wasn't important for a degree but for. Most more the managers is really important in one of the because if you can't bring the ball out of the fence if you can't break the press if you can't use the ball.
00:33:01
Speaker
then it's very easy for the opposition teams to press the ball, to win the ball high up because you'll just give the ball away if you're that kind of defender and also you can't build out from the back with defenders like Bremmer because they give the ball away and this is a good key difference between Callifuri and Bremmer in terms of modern football so that was something that I found quite interesting. I think that point that you made about the
00:33:29
Speaker
Bremel losing it to Calafiori was so symbolic because that could actually happen at Juve too, like you said. I mean, it's just, I found that very, very interesting. And I thought of that when I saw it. And I think that's probably what's going to happen. I think Calafiori will be the symbol. I think Juve will look to build around him in their defense. And I think he would be, you know, he's Italian, he's from Rome. I think he will
00:33:59
Speaker
happily take on that role to build a new era at JUVA because it's also an incredible opportunity for him.
00:34:10
Speaker
um to do that and become that kind of you know the the the flag bearer defensively at Juve um into the future yeah is is interesting but yeah I do think that's a very good point but it's going to be I mean I think Tiago Mota going to Juve is is almost you know it's it's a done deal um I think Bremer Bremer and or of Laovich I'm not entirely sure if Laovich stays I have my doubts
00:34:38
Speaker
Um, but I think, I think now is it's squeaky bum time for junctally. Now he has to deliver, he has to deliver, he has to hit the, hit the transfer market, you know.
00:34:47
Speaker
running, hit the ground running and just constantly live it. Absolutely. Because he didn't deliver last year, but that wasn't all he spelled out. That was because he was the constraints of the financial situation. And also when he was appointed, I mean, you know, De La Rentais did his very best. De La Rentais managed to screw up the transfer market of two clubs last summer. Yes, he did. He really did. It was a great point.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yes, talking about the future now. Inter. So let's do a little explainer here. I know that we're recording this during a delicate time because there is going to be probably by the time this pod comes out, there probably will have been more news about exactly what happens. But as it stands, as we're recording this,
00:35:32
Speaker
on Tuesday. The situation is that in 2021, US fund Oaktree Capital provided a $275 million loan to interest holding companies soon in with a 12% interest rate. This needed to be repaid in full
00:35:47
Speaker
on May the 20th, 2024, which is yesterday, Monday. If the loan was not repaid, Oak Theory will assume control as the club was effectively used as collateral at the time of the original agreement. So Nima, what I want to do is I want you to do a little explainer here. So I've got a few questions here for you. First of all, if you can just sum up kind of where we're at right now. I know this might become very dated, so as brief as you can
00:36:15
Speaker
I'd say you've summed it up really well with the only caveat, of course, being that yesterday was a bank holiday in Luxembourg. And so the expiry date has been moved to today, the 21st, midnight. That's the only thing that I would add to that because, you know, it's a bank holiday, the banks are closed, you can't do anything. So naturally it gets moved upwards one day. So other than that, the issue is that
00:36:42
Speaker
Suning want to repay this loan with the money from another company PIMCO with loan from another business, from another like bank or investment bank. And
00:37:00
Speaker
and claiming that they have other clauses which need to be satisfied and this counts as a sale and if it counts as a sale they have a clause that says they have a 20% sell-on fee and so it's not just the 400 million it's actually 400 plus blah blah blah and so on and so forth so you know these are the reports that are coming out
00:37:21
Speaker
What is obvious is after that, I mean, I was in Brera, we'd just been to Botinero, Zanetti's restaurant, and met some friends there.
00:37:34
Speaker
hadn't been there for a while and because he used to be there quite a bit back a few years ago and met the people who run it and spoke with them. And when this news broke, the childish message or this kind of letter of defeat from Stephen Zhang, that
00:37:57
Speaker
when he put that he published on blaming oak trees, basically. Well, yeah. And it's it's astonishing to me. And again, he just goes to show how unprepared he is for for holding this position. This was his project. He can't you know, everything I believe that a good manager appoints good people around him. And he has done that with Marotta. He has done that with Azzilion and all these guys have all kind of found their balance.
00:38:28
Speaker
under him and then he's kind of given them the keys and say, okay, you run that. That's a talent and gift in and of itself, right? But the resolution of the oak tree was entirely on him. That's not something Daddy Marotta can do for Steven. That's something Steven had to solve. And Steven did not solve it. Steven, in fact, turned it into a ginormous shit show because he had three years to solve it. He apparently had no idea what the contract said.
00:38:56
Speaker
Because threatening with legal action is no one cares. If you actually know what the contract you've signed says and you are secure in what you what you have signed, you bully through and come hell or high water, be the legal hell or high water, you take that because you believe that you've signed it right. You know what you have done.
00:39:17
Speaker
But it's evident that he hasn't. He didn't know that. And so now he's going to lose the club. That's what I think. I think Suningar have lost Inter. And I think that this is going to be, of course, they're going to fight this unless they can come to an amicable solution, which, to be fair, from what we understand, it's not just the club being repossessed.
00:39:40
Speaker
Oaktree also have to pay Zooning. That was a term of the contract or the loan. That should Zooning default on this money.
00:39:48
Speaker
then Oaktree have to pay a remaining, I don't know, two, 300 million euros to soon to retain the clubs control of the club. The difference between the value and the amount of the loan that's owed. Yeah, exactly. So they come to an agreement about the valuation, they subtract the debts, they subtract what the loan was, and then they have a sum left and then they pay that. And then that's it. So that's from what I understand, at least, that this has worked out.
00:40:17
Speaker
My thing on this is that, well, Oaktree, on the one hand, have been at Inter for three years. People forget that. Since Suning via their holding company in Luxembourg took out the loan using Inter as collateral, Oaktree demanded as a term of the loan to have at least a seat on the board and also be able to dictate the finances to balance Inter's books, which they have done very successfully.
00:40:46
Speaker
What Marotta has been able to do is to do that and attain sporting success, which is hardly easy. So that's where we are now. So I'm not too worried about this because Oaktree are not too interested in running a football club. They made that very clear. So they're not going to run a football club. What they're going to do is basically, I think it's going to be a continuation of everything that's happened, the financial sustainability stuff.
00:41:12
Speaker
and all the stuff that we've seen in the last three years, I think the only difference will be twofold. One is that Oaktree will put in their guys on the financial side, meaning to increase the revenue, their contacts will become very useful in terms of
00:41:34
Speaker
you know, growing the club in terms of brand and revenue streams and the new stadium and all that, which I think is incredibly positive.
Inter's Financial Future
00:41:42
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with that. Oaktree are, I think, 10 times the size of Elliott in terms of the portfolios they control. So they do have the right connections and contacts to do these things. And secondly, they will have to look towards getting rid of that
00:42:04
Speaker
Um, that bond that matures in February, 2027, they need to handle that situation. And they also need to handle somewhere around 2, 300 million of the club's debts to bring that down. Um, and then you have the sporting side, which is.
00:42:25
Speaker
the part where I think is I think we're going to have a situation where who's going to be the next club president and I wouldn't be surprised and for Inter fans if they want stability the best thing they can do is to appoint Beppe Marotta as the president. Okay let me just yeah let me just stop you there right so first of all so you you're saying that basically Oaktree are not going to do what Elliot did at Milan they're not going to run the club that means they're going to need to find a buyer
00:42:53
Speaker
Do you think do you think they have a buyer already and if they don't have a buyer because you know and and obviously? Take over deals are always
00:43:02
Speaker
take a long time and they're always, they're never always easy to complete and to complete quickly and it could linger on. If there is this period between finding the buyer and completing the takeover, what will happen this summer in terms of the transfer market, in terms of the finances, in terms of buying and selling players willing to have to sell players during that interim period of the takeover?
00:43:36
Speaker
Again, I think it depends. I do think they have buyers lined up. That I do think.
00:43:41
Speaker
And I think that the takeover becomes much more easier now that Suning are out of the picture. It becomes much, much more, you know, it's just one transaction. It's Oaktree, the owners and the sellers and the buyer. You know, you don't have this complicated thing with Suning, if Suning leave, unless Suning magically find the money and pay Oaktree off by
00:44:04
Speaker
midnight to night, which seems very, very unlikely. So if you've got 500 million euros lying about, then, you know, by all means, give Steven a ring. But but yeah, so so that's that's that. But when I say that, I don't think they're going to be interested in running the club like Elliot did. Well, they already have been running the club for three years, finally, on the financial side. I think if they take an interest or if they start running the club, they will do it.
00:44:34
Speaker
in terms of to increase the revenue. I think they will put their people in charge of the financial side and the market. What I mean though is that Elliot didn't sell the club on for how many years after? I think that's what's going to happen. I think that's what's going to happen. I think that they have a lot of buyers lined up.
00:44:56
Speaker
But I do think that they want to, they're not going to stress over this. I think they look at Intel as one of their many assets that they control and they look at it as an asset that they need to get in line with where they need it to be in order to sell it on. I don't think it's going to be, unless we're all surprised, we will all be surprised and they actually have a buyer raring to go tonight at midnight who comes in and says,
00:45:24
Speaker
We've taken over the club. We intend to sell it over to this buyer. We're in advanced talks with them. Like that would be the quickest solution. But I don't think that's going to happen. I don't see that as highly unlikely. So you don't, so Interfans don't have to worry about selling players this summer or anything like that? Look, it depends. It depends on how Oak review this. If Oak review this as we're going to need to service the debt,
00:45:55
Speaker
meaning the club's debts, not Suning's debts, like a Suning are out now, they're gone, right? If the club passes to Oaktree, then it's Oaktree, they have a bond that matures in 2027 and the club has 2-300 million debt. If Oaktree decide that
00:46:14
Speaker
we need to start servicing that debt, which is not impossible, by the way, they could tell Marotta, well, actually, you need to end the summer on another on 60 million plus, for example, because they want to they want to pay off that debt within three years or however many years they want to pay pay that off with pay that off us. I don't know. We don't know. We don't know what they want. But what we do know is that they don't want to run the sporting side of things.
00:46:39
Speaker
that they've been very clear. That's where a new buyer will be important because if a new buyer comes in then that removes that possibility of having to make that 60 million or however much it's going to be. Or even if they can also decide that it's nothing because you don't know that. We don't know what they're thinking is. That's what I'm saying. I'm just saying we need to wait and see what they actually say. But I think it's clear that the way that these
00:47:09
Speaker
banks, investment banks, hedge funds run things, it's very clear. They want to tidy up the numbers even more and then sell on at a profit. The problem with that is that I don't think Nzagi, I don't think Marotta, I don't think any of these guys are willing to stay on for another three summers of what happened three years ago after Antonio Conte's left.
00:47:35
Speaker
where if they come in and say, you need to make 100, you need to end them in California. They don't want to do that all over again. That I don't see happening. And that's for me, that's what I'm looking at. If Marotta decides to leave, well, then I would panic. Then it's time to panic. Because if Marotta turns around after having signed a contract until June, 2027 and goes, you know what, I'm out of here. Buonavacansa, aribiderci, then I would be very worried if I'm in into that. But if he stays on,
00:48:04
Speaker
I wouldn't be as worried. Until we know, look, we need to know what happens. Tuesday, midnight, that's today at midnight. We need to understand what's going on. But I do think that it's safe to say that after that letter that he published, that was a goodbye letter. That was a defeat. That was a declaration of defeat.
00:48:23
Speaker
And he effed up big time. He had three years to handle this. He had three years to sort it out. And the fact that he didn't read the contract properly and didn't understand what it was in it. And the fact that he was scared by the legal threats by Oaktree means that he screwed up. He didn't know what he was doing. And that's entirely on Steven. And I think that if you lose an asset worth a billion,
00:48:49
Speaker
for about 700 million, 30% less than it's actually worth, I think Stephen's gonna struggle to succeed in the family business, because that is a disgraceful.
00:49:02
Speaker
That is a disgraceful screw up. This was his chance to prove himself. And he turned out that he wasn't good enough to do it. And so whatever happens for him in the future, I think he will be sidelined by the dad, especially who is very powerful and very hands on and he doesn't fail. The comeback that Suning have done in China is thanks to the dad in terms of how much they have made back a lot of
00:49:32
Speaker
their, their, how much they're worth, how much, you know, the, the, the bounce back of the business has had in China is due to the dad. Cause he's Zhang Jingdong is very powerful. He's a very competent man, but Steven has been given Inter and if he, you know, messes that up and loses the club at a 30% loss of what the club is worth.
00:49:55
Speaker
Well, you know, that's the end of Stephen Chang's career, or at least for a long time, you'll be sidelined. But for Inter, I think we'll know, the proof will be in the pudding with what happens with Marotta. If they talk about continuation, you know, if they continue with, you know, basically saying, okay, well, you know, because that's another thing. Oak Tree have been there for three years. So they have gotten everything in line.
00:50:22
Speaker
But if they're going to start, if it's going to be another Groundhog Day situation where I have to interwind the Scudetto, they're going to start acid stripping to pay off debt. I don't see Mar of Pastain. And that's when the panic goes. And then once again, it is Groundhog Day. And then people, everyone who blamed Suning,
00:50:40
Speaker
will look really dumb because then it's not, it's not zooming. This is what happens when you bring on an American hedge fund and an investment banker. They are ruthless. They don't give a shit about what you feel, what you think, what you feel
00:50:56
Speaker
they just care about those numbers and the money yeah they have their excel sheet and they like black numbers they don't like red numbers as simple as that yeah yeah well said okay um well just let's just uh very quickly on interversus let's say that it was a nothing game uh at all for inter um but i know you were at the game so you you how was the experience of the match it was uh
00:51:23
Speaker
It was unbelievable. Um, it was, you know, I've been very blessed to have been at that stadium and covered many inter games. Um, you know, but that was the, the vibe around the San Siro, you know, I w I w I went there some four hours before I took two o'clock just to soak it in. And it was already thousands and thousands of people there.
00:51:48
Speaker
Um, you know, it was, it was, it was unreal. It was a beautiful day. It was a hot day. Um, it was just complete party mode. Um, everyone was so happy and relaxed. And then you go into the stadium itself. Um, and, and, you know, you see the T the T four choreography and, and, and everything that happened before that. And they, cause they did a 360 degree one and they were counting down.
00:52:17
Speaker
to when that was going to be shown. And then the noise level, the singing, it was as if the entire stadium was the Kurva. That's how it felt. It was loud chanting and singing from all areas of the stadium.
00:52:38
Speaker
for large parts of that 90 minutes. And it was truly, truly unbelievable. And then of course, you have the trophy presentation, you have, and then you had this kind of little concert, mini concert with Luciano Ligabue singing Orlando Controllicello, which is kind of like the national anthem of Inter.
00:53:03
Speaker
And that was unbelievable. You had the fireworks, you had... No, it was truly fantastic. It was truly, truly remarkable. It was truly fantastic. It was unique, it was historic. The second star, it's only ever happened once before in Intel's history.
00:53:24
Speaker
if you take into consider Milan and Inter, it's only happened six times before with Juve, like three for Juve, two for Inter and one for Milan. It's only ever happened six times before in Italian football history. So it is a very, it was a historic day, it was a historic event and it was really, really nice to be a part of that. And it was, yeah, it was breathtaking at times. It was very emotional to the way that
00:53:53
Speaker
the sound level. I mean, Inter is a very difficult club. It's not like you. It's not like other clubs. Milan is a special place. And Inter is a very special club in the sense that Inter fans or Inter is very rarely united. But when they are, when this fan base unites, when this club unites,
00:54:15
Speaker
It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it's very, very beautiful and very powerful. And you can see how united they are behind Simone and Zaggy and Marotta. That was one of the things that I found very, very interesting was how incredibly loved Simone and Zaggy is and how incredibly loved
00:54:35
Speaker
and united people are behind him and how he's managed to win people over by being like this. He is like this. He doesn't change the tone of his voice. He doesn't make big statements. He's very, you know, it's the kind of Sengor and Erickson style of leadership that he has. And people really enjoy that. They really like it. They, you know, they found a way that they found their balance with him in terms of the relationship. And he's very, very, very loved, very loved.
00:55:03
Speaker
And the fact that he's not complained, the fact that he's gone through all of this these two, three years.
Inter's Modern Football Under Inzaghi
00:55:09
Speaker
Last summer was the first summer where he actually could go plus minus zero. And then the football that they played, which is the most beautiful football we've, you know, I've seen him to play consistently.
00:55:20
Speaker
and to win playing that kind of football, which again, like I said, old truths in Italian football have changed. Inter have never been a, you know, play beautiful football club. This is the club where Helenio Herrera, Morigno, Entrapatoni and Conte succeeded, right? You know, they are, you know, that's how you win at Inter. It's hard work and kind of that, that's what matters, but he's done it playing
00:55:43
Speaker
incredible football, possession based modern football. And so, yeah, it's it's, you know, for, you know, he seems happy. He talks about wanting to stay and be there for a long time and so on and so forth. So, yeah, well, yeah, I mean, there was more riding on this game from for Lazio than for than than for Inter and that's you were only two minutes away from what would have been a massive win for them in the in the race for
00:56:10
Speaker
the Champions League or rather for sixth place, which would have given them a chance of potentially qualifying for the Champions League if Atlanta can win the Europa League. But they conceded two minutes from time and that will be quite gutting for them. And in fact, they now can't qualify for the Champions League. They can't finish six because they're three points behind Roma and Roma have their heads ahead.
00:56:37
Speaker
That is done for them now, if my maths is correct. And yeah, that is a shame, but I don't think it takes away from the impact that Igor Tudor has had since he's come in. Last seven games, one, five, drawn two, and since he's come, he's beaten Juventus twice. He's been two minutes away from beating Inter as well. And he's managed to unlock Deici Camada, which I think is the most important thing. I think he's going to be key. I really rate Camada.
00:57:05
Speaker
I was very surprised if he stays there. Well, I think he will. I think Tudor I think Tudor has made it clear that he's going to be he's going to be at the center of the project. And I think he will. I think he will stay. I think he will stay. And I think that I'm happy for Lazio fans because they now have something to actually look forward to because, you know, Kamada, I think, can actually become very iconic for them. I think he's very important in the system and he was really good.
00:57:33
Speaker
And he's the kind of player Tudor once as well, as well. He brings that energy and he has a goal threat, of course. He does. And he scored. I thought it was poor goalkeeping from summer. It's not normal. Yeah, it was. Often we can criticise summer this season. He's been the best goalkeeper in Serie A, but that was for me, he should have saved that. But, yeah. No, yeah. Good game. Very good game from Lazio, although, of course, Inter were already on holiday, already thinking of the Euro. Inter were on holiday. Inter were.
00:58:02
Speaker
look that was like it was you know if the bologna again was a kickabout with your mates i don't know what the inter were on the beach i mean it was literally kickabout with flip-flops at the beach i mean there was no there was nothing there was a bit of bursts of intensity but
00:58:19
Speaker
No, it was. It's just one of those games, wasn't it? But Roma Roma beat Genoa, crucial goal from Lukaku to win the game with 10 men. So Roma have clinched six, six plays. So this is what Roma need to qualify for Champions League. And it's not, according to the latest information coming out, it's not as simple as Atalanta just winning the Europa League in order for six plays to be worth the Champions League for Roma.
00:58:48
Speaker
Roma need Atalanta to beat by Lebakus in the Europa League final on Wednesday, but they also need Atalanta to finish fifth in Serie A. If Atalanta were to finish third or fourth,
00:59:03
Speaker
which could very well happen now, then, and in fact, if Atalanta win their last two games of the season in Syria, they will finish third or fourth. So if Atalanta were to finish third or fourth, the extra Champions League spot, six Champions League spot would not be given to Italy. So that's how it works. There's a very simple solution to this, and that is,
00:59:25
Speaker
the Atalanta beat by Leverkusen on Wednesday and then stop playing. That would be nice, wouldn't it? Just win the Europa League and then send in the kids in the last two games because it won't matter, you'll be in the Champions League.
00:59:45
Speaker
That would be nice. But obviously they have to beat, they have to beat, by Levakus in first. And I would be the most Italian thing ever, and it would piss off everyone. Italy to have six places in the Champions League, by Atalanta winning the Europa League, and then just basically not doing anything for the last two games, just to make sure. That would be glorious. Can you imagine? It would piss them off. Serie A six teams in the Champions League, Premier League four.
01:00:14
Speaker
And we need also Fiorentina to win the conference league final. To give us nine. We can't get ten. We actually can't have ten. We can if they finish outside of the top eight. Oh right, okay. So I knew Fiorentina and Atalanta to do the job for me. I knew Fiorentina and Atalanta to win their finals.
01:00:35
Speaker
and then do the Biscotti. That's not going to happen though because for Atalanta to play Fiorete they don't know. Oh they can draw that. Maybe we need a draw, maybe we need a Biscotti. I need the holy mother of Biscotti in that game, just because if they both win it, I would love that. It would piss off all the right people. Well let's talk about Atalanta then, the final. First of all they beat Lecce, which I think was important because they needed to bounce back
01:01:05
Speaker
psychologically, they needed to have a win to go into that to the Europa League
Atalanta in Europa League Final
01:01:10
Speaker
final. And they got the win. Some more rotations from Gasparini. Schematica comes in, continues his great form, goal and assist. And we saw, again, how much he will be missed against Juventus, but also how important he will be against Leverkusen. And I feel like that is the narrative going into the final, that this is Schematica. We need Schematica to turn up in this game. Atalanta are going to win.
01:01:34
Speaker
this game against Leverkusen, we need Skamaka to have a big, big game, to do some magic, to really be the man. Is that something you would go along with? Without a doubt, Skamaka has to do, like I said last week on Thursday, I think I said, look, it's now's your time to show. I mean, you're 25 years old, you're not a kid anymore.
01:01:57
Speaker
You've been unbelievable these last few months and I need you to step up. I need you to show who you are in these big games. Cause he, again, the gift he has, the ability he has, he can create something out of nothing. And not very many players have that. Um, and, and we need him to do that. Yeah. We really, really need him to do that. Yeah, we do. It's going to be very, very difficult for us to learn. So I mean, Lebakou's not big favorites. We cannot deny that they've had an unbeaten season. Um.
01:02:24
Speaker
I'm beating in the Bundesliga now. 28 wins, six draws. I mean, 51 games, is it? Or 52? I'm beating in all competitions. They're two games away from an unbeaten treble. Their physical condition, I'll say it again, and I don't care. I'll say it. It's not human, their physical condition. The quality of their players they've got on the wide roles is going to be very interesting because I think Frinpong and Duramaldo have been absolutely devastating out wide.
01:02:52
Speaker
And so we need Ruggieri and Zappacosta really to just try and match up. But here's the thing though, they, one thing I think is a bit, you know, they've got midweek final against Atalanta and then they got the German cup final as well three days later.
01:03:10
Speaker
Liverpool's and so they're not going to I don't see them rotating for this game. But no, of course not. Maybe they will. I don't know. It's Roma still one. But yeah, it's it's gonna be very, very difficult. And they're only being injured is also a big blow. And I'm very devastating for him because because I think he's gonna leave isn't it summer. So it's a real shame for him, someone that's been there the whole way. But you know, I said last week that
01:03:39
Speaker
My heart, of course, is with Atalanta. My heart tells me Atalanta are going to win this game, but my head tells me that it's going to be Leverkusen. My head tells me that Atalanta needed to win that final last week. I know you disagree with me there, but my head tells me that psychologically they needed to win that final in order to win this final.
01:04:00
Speaker
I hope, I hope they can do it. I really hope they can do it. For me, I think, I think Leverkusen are tough ask, regardless of if, if, if Ottavant had won the. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's just, I think. And that's why I think it's on Skamaka because he wasn't there and he does have that X factor that on his day, he can do it to anyone.
01:04:21
Speaker
He really can. He really can. And he needs to. We have to score the first goal this final. For me, there's no doubt about that. Atalanta can't fall to chase the game. Like, they can't do that. They can't chase the game. And the crews were so devastating when he chased him. On the counter. Yeah, they are devastating. We need the first goal. We need the first goal. Atalanta needs to have a first goal. And I need Atalanta to... It would be, you know... I would love to see. I mean, it depends on, you know... I'm looking at who they've got up front and it's, you know... Atalanta, they have depth.
01:04:51
Speaker
which I'm really happy about. But it's going to be interesting as well. Give us a bit of luck in a final. I mean, we haven't had any luck in these finals like last year. We deserved to win at least two of those three finals last year. At least two, maybe even all three, to be honest with you. Into our played city in the final. Deserved to win that final, in my opinion. Even though it was tight, they were the better team. Roma definitely deserved to win. Roma definitely deserved to win that. Like Roma was just...
01:05:20
Speaker
Yeah and then and then the Fiorentina game was a kind of a 50-50 and then you know and they were probably the better team in terms of the play in that game as well so you know let's have a bit of luck for once in a final I mean come on you know we've got to have some luck even if they deserve to lose give us the luck and let's win this win this final. Just let me just sum up let's just quickly go through the other the other games without going into them so Fiorentina 2, Napoli 2
Napoli's Poor Season End
01:05:46
Speaker
some brilliant free kicks from Kvarat Skater and Biraghi, which I was not happy to see because I'm worried now he's going to get called up to the Euros of that free kick. But yeah, this is just one of those that Fiorettina don't really care. They only care about the conference decline and Napoli just want the season to end. I mean, disastrous end to the season. No wins in six now and one win in 11 to end the season for Napoli. I mean, it's just
01:06:12
Speaker
Horrible. And then Torino Milan, really good performance from Torino in this game. This is the kind of performance that I really believe that Torino were capable of doing more of this this season. And I think it's a bit frustrating because I do think that they've got, that they had it in them this season to play like this. They were really, really good in this game. I know Milan are on the beach as well now, so maybe we should... They've literally got nothing to play for. I mean, what do you want from them? They've got 74 points. They're second, like...
01:06:39
Speaker
There's nothing. I would say one thing. Tomori has been really poor again the second half of the season and he was at blame for two goals and maybe Southgate was right about it. We sit here and we criticize him, but he hasn't progressed Tomori. We've said this recently, he hasn't progressed and still makes the same mistakes and he still has the same chinks and weaknesses, especially Airely. Airely, he's really not strong enough in the air, Tomori.
01:07:06
Speaker
in the way that he defends there really. I don't think he's bad in the, I think he's quite good in the air, but the way he defends the box area really, he, yeah, which we saw in that game. So that's a bit of a concern to Maury going forward. And then of course there's the manager chase, which we'll talk about more in future episodes, but Fonseca seems to be the favorite. The Zebi is a very- That to me is insane. Yeah, I don't get it at all. Like Fonseca to me, like I said, it's a poor man's Portuguese peole.
01:07:35
Speaker
Deserbe, that would be, I'm not sure he's ready for that job, but at least that's a brave, do you know what I mean? Like there's an idea behind bringing Deserbe, do you know what I mean? But with Pat Fonseca,
01:07:50
Speaker
And he fits the project in terms of developing younger players, not being unhappy when they sell players. And also he's a young coach. And there's hope there. There's hope there. With Fonseca you know what you're going to get. I don't understand Fonseca at all. The Zebi would make sense, it would be interesting.
01:08:11
Speaker
for sure and to see if the ZB is ready for a big job. There's lots of talking points, there's an idea behind it, there's a freshness about it. Fonseca too. And the fans want it as well. And he also knows the club, he was a youth team player, he supports Milan, he wouldn't need time to settle it.
01:08:27
Speaker
no settle in and you know understand the environment so yeah i don't get it but i mean according to sport italia and sky sport italia who are who are who are two better sources than gazetta when it comes to transfer news um they they say that they've got nothing to say
01:08:42
Speaker
And so, I mean, we'll see, we'll see how that develops in the next days. The relegation race, Nimr, just to finish off before we do Badjo, Badjo, Primaface and Celias of the week. I know this is your favorite, favorite talking points. So it's a massive games, four massive games for the relegation zone. And this, this past weekend, Cañeria safe after they beat Sasual or 2-0 and Sasual are relegated.
Sassuolo's Relegation
01:09:05
Speaker
They're relegated, which is,
01:09:07
Speaker
It's a shame. It's sad after 11 years in Serie A. I think the injury of Berardi was the key here for them going down. It's been a really, really bad season from Sassuolo. It's been a disastrous season. They actually go down and they shouldn't be going down, given the quality of players they have. But one thing that I thought was interesting was that Berardi wasn't even there.
01:09:30
Speaker
He was watching Formula One I think. No way. Whilst they were getting relegated. That's unacceptable. Which is very interesting. I mean he's injured but yeah. That's unacceptable and you've got to be there when your team needs you. Monzanil Frosinone won a massive win for Frosinone.
01:09:53
Speaker
Um, they now just need to draw at home to the Nazi on the last, uh, last day of the season to stay up. They, they can only get relegated now frosting on it. If, uh, an employee beat Roma. So, so, so that's a massive win for them. Uh, and then who didn't as this was huge, who didn't as a one, what an ending to this game, who didn't as he won. Emply one, it was Neil Neil going into injury time. And then Monza, sorry. Emply got penalty, uh, in the 90th minute.
01:10:34
Speaker
the 14th minute of injury time. And on the VAR, and there was a ridiculous delay of about like five or six minutes for why they were trying to I don't know what the hell was going on. Everybody was just on the pitch like what's going on. And then someone's which puts it away. Our boy summits it and they draw on that that was huge for the desert because they would have been in big, big trouble. Now, but they still, they're still very precarious for the desert that they they
01:10:44
Speaker
and they score, Nyang scores, it looks like they're going to win the game and this would have been absolutely massive for Empoli in order to stay up.
01:11:01
Speaker
They probably need to beat Frosinone. They need to beat Frosinone. They need to beat Frosinone. And I'll explain why. The reason why is if they draw with Frosinone, there's three teams that can get relegated now. Either Frosinone, Udenezer or Emply.
01:11:17
Speaker
I've explained, in order to stay up there, you need to draw. If you draw with frozen on it, they can be overtaken by Empoli if Empoli beat Roma. Roma have nothing to play for, because as we've explained, they've got six plays, they can't finish higher or lower than six. Roma have nothing to play for on the last day of the season. I would expect Empoli to win that game, because if you understand Serie A culture and how it works,
01:11:40
Speaker
teams don't. It seems disrespectful to try and beat a team that are fighting against relegation when you've got nothing to play for. That's just the way it's done in Italy. So, Brody... Tell your football honour is special. It is. So, I expect Empoli to win that game and then it's down to Udenizio. If Empoli win, they're up. No, they're safe if Empoli win. I think I'm correct in saying. Yeah, if Empoli win, they're safe if Udenizio don't win.
01:12:08
Speaker
So if Empoli win, Udinesse have to win. But if Udinesse lose, but if Udinesse lose an Empoli draw, we have a play out. That's correct. Yeah, we have a play out. Between Udinesse and Empoli. So I think if Udinesse don't beat frozen on it, I think they're going to go down. Yeah, me too. I think so as well. And I mean, it was funny because
01:12:34
Speaker
That game against Empoli, I was watching it at the San Siro at the media center. Everyone was glued to the TV because the ending to that game was insane. First Nyang with a penalty and then Samajic with a penalty in the 14th extra time. So everyone was watching that and the camera, I remember, was zooming in at Nicola and he was pissed. It was very interesting moment. Amazing ending. Amazing ending. Right, let's just finish off with Bajo, Premface and Seria as of the week.
Humorous Inter Celebration Moment
01:13:03
Speaker
Okay, so bad Joe, I've got one you've got one. So first of all, I want to go with Toram's dad in the inter celebrations This was hilarious. This was so good. So so Toram is doing the the the famous jump, you know those who don't jump as a uventino and
01:13:21
Speaker
Terrap's dad just comes in and he just slaps around the head. I thought, I just found that hilarious. Whilst wearing an inter-shirt with a squirtle. I mean, it was just the whole thing was just weird. Terrap's dad is a bit of a strange character in some ways to be honest with you. Very intelligent guy. Very, very intelligent guy. But yeah, I've just found that funny. I love that.
01:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was for me. It's the bad joy of the week is is this it's Italian football like when it comes to whether it's celebrating or like the San Siro was this year or if it was Napoli last year, Milan the year before that. It's just Italian football when they want to put on a show, they put on a show like no one else.
01:14:16
Speaker
Um, but we also were sent in, um, a, uh, a Bajo from, uh, Roberto Rosa. He's from, uh, you know, he was, uh, he's from Puglia and he was in Puglia. I was watching. He's also a Bedford boy as well, by the way. Is he? Okay. He's a friend. Uh, he's a friend of mine. Oh, I didn't know. I knew, I knew you knew each other, but I didn't know a few how well, but he was, uh, we've been DMing and, and, and he's, uh,
01:14:42
Speaker
He was in Puglia, it was a study of Antonio Bianco, this tiny little stadium, watching Casalano against Gallipoli, and it was literally him and maybe two, three hundred.
01:14:53
Speaker
300, like 40, 50 year old men cussing in Dia Leto. And it was just so fucking beautiful. I'm sorry. Like, it's just so beautiful. Like, just this, this, like, seria di, you know, they're angry at the referee cussing in Dia Leto, Pugliese. It's just, and the sun was shining and the stadium's old and very hearty. And it's just,
01:15:20
Speaker
You've fallen like that to me. That is Italian football. I love that. And this club has been around for God knows how long and it means so much to them. It's Italian football and it's most beautiful. I think it was Casarano Gallipoli he was watching. I can't remember.
01:15:41
Speaker
No, it was, it was, it was beautiful. It was, it was, it was absolutely beautiful. Um, uh, it was, uh, yeah, it was setting a D, you know, and the further down you come and setting a D. The crazier it gets. Yeah. And the more, more beautiful it gets, some would say. Yeah. Prim face, prim face of the week. Do you have a prim face? I've got one.
01:16:04
Speaker
You go for it then. Okay, so mine is, I don't know if you've seen it, the new Netflix documentary on the Euro 2020 final between Italy and England at Wembley. It's called Attack on Wembley. And it's about all the hooliganism that we saw from the fans at
Documentary on England Fans' Behavior
01:16:24
Speaker
that.
01:16:24
Speaker
at that game and oh my gosh, oh my gosh. If you want to see the the violence side of primp thasery, watch this documentary because it's absolutely shocking. It really is like it is just a bunch of England fans behaving like wild drunk animals. I mean,
01:16:40
Speaker
It's drug and the drugs, the drink, the fighting, the smashing and throwing bottles, bloodied fans everywhere, the racism and anti-Italian discrimination. One of the chances, stick your spaghetti up your arse, let's go ending mental. Jumping and dancing on buses, jumping and dancing on buildings,
01:17:07
Speaker
climbing up traffic lights. I mean it was like a war zone and one guy lit a firework up his arse there.
01:17:14
Speaker
And then of course, I remember that from Twitter. I remember that Jesus Christ. He actually stuck a firecracker up his own butt. It was the most insane thing I've seen. I remember that. And then of course, the serious stuff, which was like the charging into the ground without tickets and, you know, stewards getting, I mean, how somebody didn't die that day, I really don't know. It's a miracle. If you watch this documentary, you wonder how that, oh, did someone, did someone not die? And
01:17:44
Speaker
obviously the racist abuse, the racist chance against the black players that missed the penalty after the game. And then the mural of Rashford was defaced. But the prim face comment from this, this was the best, this is just the best prim face comment ever that came from it. There was an England fan that they were interviewing that they were asking about all this violence. He was at the game and how do you explain all this violence that we saw from the England fans? And he goes, he blamed the pandemic
01:18:13
Speaker
the way that the England fans yeah he goes we've been locked away for a year humans are not meant to be locked away this was an escape we wouldn't usually behave like this right right yeah they've never
01:18:28
Speaker
We've never behaved like this before at tournaments and matches in Europe. That made me laugh at it. So hilarious. There was a serious side to it. All I'm going to say is I can't remember which broadcaster it was showing a video of Leicester Square after they'd left.
01:18:51
Speaker
like post zombie apocalypse yes i don't think i've ever seen like this much carnage in my life no you couldn't see the ground for all the empty bottles and glass like it was it was just absolute mental like they went crazy
01:19:12
Speaker
And then, no, it's not the pandemic's fault. Get out of here. I think there was a lot of pent-up frustration from that, from the lockdown, absolutely. But you don't get to blame the pandemic and the lockdowns for that behavior, which they've been doing for many a decade.
Expectations for Euro Matches
01:19:33
Speaker
without any lockdowns let's put it that way exactly so so let's not let's let's not blame blame you know i'm sure we'll see it again next month in germany that's for sure yum i'm put a bet on the the 10 german bombers being oh that they always sing that everybody every time they play sweden they sing that i don't know why but
01:20:00
Speaker
Well, they're definitely singing it in Germany, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean, every time they come to, every time England plays Sweden, a World Cup qualifier through the years, we've seen them, you know, they just sing that and it's just part of it. That's just what they do. Two World Wars and one World Cup, that's the other one. They'll definitely sing that in Germany. They'll be definitely singing that. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the Euros, because I think England are actually
01:20:28
Speaker
Look, I'm looking at that like this, and I'm thinking France, obviously, number one favorite, then England. But I got to say, watch out for Germany. No, I agree with you there. I agree with you. I agree with you. Germany, I want Germany once coming together, isn't it? Yeah, Germany, definitely. And my my third team after France and England now.
Atalanta's Social Media Error
01:20:48
Speaker
Right. Syria asks of the week. We've got a few here. So first of all, the Atalanta Post on Serie A Twitter.
01:20:55
Speaker
before the game, the English was just abysmal. It was Atalanta are in two cup finals this season. The first one, the Coppa Italia Freta Rosa, decisive match versus Juventus. What is that? That is beautiful. That literally is.
01:21:17
Speaker
Oh, Francesco, you're the one who speaks good English. You know, do something, put something out there. I love that.
Critique of Serie A's Influencer Strategy
01:21:27
Speaker
The second one I have was, oh my gosh, that you have to check out the Serie A North America Insta account on the Coppa Italia again.
01:21:40
Speaker
And this wasn't just Serie A and North America, actually. Sorry, I'm not singling them out. This was Serie A. This was Serie A. But it was on North America as well. It was on all the Serie A channels, actually. And this isn't the first time that they've done this. And I know this is frustrating. This has actually frustrated quite a few people that actually were covering the game there. And it's not the first time that they
01:22:03
Speaker
that Serie A have used the Coppa Italia final to invite a bunch of influencers who are just completely unimportant nobodies, like nobody even knows who the hell they are and they send them to this game. They've also got no football link at all. That's the thing for me. They're just celebrity influencers, they're not football influencers which are bad enough.
01:22:24
Speaker
you know people like speed and they're idiots like that. Well that would have made sense wouldn't it if you had speed there, do you know what I mean? Because at least he's a football, like he doesn't know anything about the game but his audience is a football crowd, like the kids who play football games or like football. But they interviewed these people that were just influencers that had nothing to do with football and I read them out, the pointer brothers
01:22:45
Speaker
was a couple of guys that are influencers. QCP. Who's QCP? No idea. What is QCP? No idea. And another one, a lady called Julia Science West. So what is that?
01:23:01
Speaker
What is that? I mean, they're influencers, yet they've got the most, their names are not the catchiest names to influence people. Oh, QCP is that idiot. I was going to say, yeah, that's the idiot who stands, this guy who pretends to be some sort of a chef and he's naked.
01:23:19
Speaker
I've no idea. I mean QTP for me sounds like a car park, like a multi-storey car park or something. No, this guy, his name is Gianluca Conte. He's Italian-American and basically he's like a model, fitness model, whatever. And he's created this thing where
01:23:50
Speaker
he he's basically he cooks he just he's not a chef he just throws food together and he's standing there pretending to be naked as well like he's just weird yeah it's just so cringy and the pointer brothers uh never heard of them either pointer sisters i've heard of yeah the pointer sisters but if they got the pointer sisters that might have been a better influence but uh i mean i mean who are these people i mean
01:24:15
Speaker
you know, what are they going to do? This is just, again, this just sums up everything that I was saying last week about how Serie A, in order to market the league and build the brand, they just take some general truths. And one of those is that influences are important for markets in your
01:24:32
Speaker
your your product, you know, any business that wants to, to try and try and sell their product, they will hire influences. I don't like it, but it's a general truth. So sorry, I think so we have to go we have to get the influences to build the product. And, and they just get, you know, they just get a bunch of influencers who no one no one's heard of, and who have nothing to have no link to football.
01:24:57
Speaker
you know, if you're trying to, if you're if I'm, you know, kept my cake shop, for example, if I'm trying to sell cakes, and I want to hire an influencer, right, I don't go and get an influencer that has nothing to do with, you know, has no audience to do with with with food, do I, you know, because they're not going to their audience are not going to be interested in in in food.
01:25:18
Speaker
So you get an, you get an influencer that is connected to, in this case, you would get a football influencer like that, like that clown speed or someone like that. You know, the point of brothers, what are they going to do? Julia, Julia science West, what is she a, a blooming, what's she a scientist? I don't know what that even is. I don't even know what that is. Julia science West. What the hell is that? Like you just made that name up, didn't you?
01:25:43
Speaker
It sounds like it. It sounds like one of those Verona players. It's not Science West. I just looked it up. It's Science West. I don't even know who that is. I think she's Italian. I think so. Anyway.
01:26:07
Speaker
I don't know. I think she's Italian-American. Verona, we've got to say that Verona stayed up and I think that Marco Baroni deserves to be a Badger of the Week as well. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, no, Baroni for managing to stay up. And also for me, he along with Motta, Coach of the Year for me. For me as well. I mean, just to be able to do what he did. And last year with Lecce as well. It's becoming quite the Salvezza, the Salvezza coach Baroni.
01:26:34
Speaker
The final set he asks of the week is, do you want to take this on CBS, CBS Sport Galaxo?
CBS Sports' Serie A Coverage Strategy
01:26:41
Speaker
It's like they don't even have the rights to the Premier League and all their, their, their Twitter and social media accounts is just about the Premier League. I mean, it's just, it makes no sense to me. Like if you own a product, why are you hyping up NBC's product? Yeah.
01:26:54
Speaker
It's insanity. And again, in Serie A, I think they're conquering America and they're the rights holder in America. He's only tweeting and posting on social media about on Sunday, this was during a massive day for Serie A. This was during the Udenezer game. There was nothing in that game. And later on, when Inter were given the trophy, they were just tweeting about the Premier League final day. Nonstop tweet after tweet after tweet, post after post on the Premier League.
01:27:21
Speaker
And apparently the broadcast was like that as well. They barely talked about it. I mean, I don't understand why they didn't show the actual, you know, ceremony and like everything that was going on. Cause it was probably, you know, that's something people would like to see. And I guess, um, I mean, or at least that would have, it's more in, you know, let me put it to you like this, the, you own the rights to the city are like, shouldn't you be promoting your own product that you own the rights to rather than promoting the product of NBC?
01:27:49
Speaker
Yeah. No, in terms of their own business, it makes no sense. I don't get that. I understand that they have to acknowledge the Premier League. I get that. And they should. But... Yeah, but they plastered their entire social media lead with Premier League stuff. Meanwhile, there was fireworks at the Suncedo. There was no... Now, Serie A was an afterthought. Their own product was an afterthought on social media, whereas it was all Premier League. And they don't even have the rights to the Premier League. I mean, it's just...
01:28:19
Speaker
I mean, it's just, I don't know if it's just pure incompetence or if it's just, I don't know. I don't know what it is.
Upcoming Content Plans
01:28:25
Speaker
It's just, it's embarrassing. Okay. On that note, we will leave it for that. Um, we will be back with the Q and a, uh, probably on Wednesday. Yeah. And then we will have something on the Europa League final, uh, either on, uh, Wednesday evening or on Thursday.
01:28:46
Speaker
yeah and also we'll probably do we'll do something also i mean if espaletti is going to release his provisional azzurri squad on yeah we might maybe we'll do it maybe we'll do a little spin off on that as well yeah i think we should do that yeah okay right let's leave it at that until next time ciao ciao