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FFR#1 About Hosts Seth & Jeff
21 Plays2 months ago
In this first episode we introduce ourselves and “brief” you all on what the show is all about, share our values and goals, and make a call out for your foiling stories.
The show is story based while tying in conversation that encourages listeners to learn, progress, and find their flow in foiling. We’ll be choosing from and interviewing a diverse group of guests who are an authentic representation of fun, growth, & creativity within the broad foil community. The goal is to build more community, bring new riders into the fold, and keep things light, funny and interesting. Each show will start with a story, then we’ll break it down and have a discussion with some questions. THAT’S NOT ALL! We will also be including a short story from one of our listeners (you!) and wrap up each episode with something we’ve learned and can work on, whether it’s physical technique, equipment, or mentality. If you have a short foil related story, or experience you’d like to share, please reach out. We’ll have you send it to us in the form of a voice memo so we can share the audio in our show. We hope you enjoy and would love any feedback! ~ Jeff & Seth 🤙 Paka’a Foil, Kaua’i
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Foil the Flow Radio'
00:00:23
Speaker
Here we are foil the flow radio episode one Bit of a gonna kick it off might as well just a test run. This is a teaser, right? So we'll just look at all the cameras act really weird and hopefully each camera Hopefully we'll get something juicy to pass on Why are we doing this? We're gonna try to just do it for fun. Is that okay? and maybe I some information.
The Passion for Foiling
00:00:51
Speaker
I think it's also, if I may add, that I think we have a unique voice. I think we live in a unique place. And both of us are absolutely taken over by foiling for our lives. Our lives are now- Completely ruined. I mean, made my life better. Yes. So I think that's the number one thing is
00:01:19
Speaker
We're in a unique place, we're in a unique position to try tons of gear. we can We're out almost every day. yeah As much as possible for sure. Or there's probably a thing to do on every day. Not that we get a full session, but we might get something of
Why Foiling is Unique
00:01:37
Speaker
a session. yeah Or at least be thinking about that session the entire day, if nothing else. This is one of the cool things with foiling. You don't need wind all the time. You don't need waves all the time.
00:01:47
Speaker
You just need a foil and some creativity and a little bit of motivation. It could even be a plank. can even People are doing this in pongs, right? you know okay Pump foiling is not really one of our favorite things, but it is a thing and it can be done. And now there's actually even
Meet the Hosts
00:02:03
Speaker
competitions for that. but So, who who the hell are you? Let's start over there. Well, I was going to introduce you. Oh, okay. So, this is Jeff Yates, owner of Pacafoil, veteran, um works on the base, works in in fathering and coaching soccer and things like that.
00:02:26
Speaker
Avid ocean person as far as I know so i'm I'm describing Jeff as I know him and we've gotten to know each other over the last three years actually through foiling Jeff introduced me to foiling and Got me going by pulling me behind his little boat a couple times and then that set me off but I know this guy to be as ah as a great source for for knowledge and experience in You came from a kiting background. Did you do windsurfing to grow up windsurfing? Okay, so I mean you're gonna fill in where I left off I guess but I The way that I see Jeff has been an incredible person to encourage me and now is encouraging others.
Jeff's Foiling Journey
00:02:59
Speaker
And that comes from a base of knowledge in the ocean, wind knowledge, surf knowledge, things like that. And then passing that on with passion to other people because he's so enthusiastic about it. It's completely changed my life and Jeff has been a huge part of that. Those are all the complimentary things. I think I was supposed to roast you a little bit here. but
00:03:17
Speaker
Okay, if I was to say one thing Jeff Jeff said he's been so helpful to me, but because he's got such a ah unique Spirit about him. Some people just don't understand his sense of humor or his social tactics did I say i have a tactic yeah i I guess I don't waste a lot of time with with the BS of life, I think. We don't have time for that. Yeah. Yeah. And there's people that get caught up in the drama of things or get caught up in the specifics of things. And I take a step back, I think usually, and just like with foiling, I don't like a brand.
Seth's Diverse Background
00:03:53
Speaker
I don't like any particular brand. I like what they are doing, what the brand is doing.
00:03:59
Speaker
I like their social consciousness. I like the capabilities that they're building into their foils, right? So I think it's... And I like the certain hardware. I like the M8 hardware. I love M8 hardware. And I cannot believe anybody else is not using M8 hardware for all their primary controls. So many options, M6, M7, M7 and Yes. We'll get into that later. But yeah, that's short intro. We could do a little more. But from what little I know of Seth, he's traveled.
00:04:31
Speaker
a lot i've traveled a lot too but seth is like not just travel but he's lived in other countries a lot so i think that also gives a unique perspective because uh... we always i joke about the first world problems we have a lot of first world problems and definitely quite a lot of first world problems foiling balls into that as it's a very privileged uh...
Community and Mission
00:04:52
Speaker
activity still at this point but he's been a uh... uh... scuba instructor he's been a uh...
00:05:00
Speaker
a traveling artist, he's been a traveling musician now, and he's been a foil instructor now for at least a couple of years. Full-time professional bum.
00:05:12
Speaker
And like me, I think you've pretty much, you came to Kauai because you can go in the water every day. One of the main reasons. definitely And it's a small town. It's really a small town atmosphere. here it's I love it because it's a small town. There's the negative sides of small town that everybody knows you're shit, but but overall, the the small town of, hey, we we pretty much know every single foiler on the island. yeah at least we've seen them don't know their name it's just the same as surfing right oh yeah you just got that new board and uh yeah how are you liking those fins though yeah what's your name again community oriented that's where it's at so we can all kind of help each other out you know if there's a
00:05:55
Speaker
If there's somebody that's having an issue, people come to the rescue, kind of help you out, whether that's in the water or our land.
Listener Engagement
00:06:01
Speaker
We'll get to that. what's okay yeah we'll talk about We've got stories. So part of what we're doing here, our mission statement is to share some of our excitement, our passion, bring in guests, not only bring in guests that you probably all look up to as your your foil fathers and sisters and mothers and whatever else, the people that set the foundation for what it is that we're so passionate about, but also bring in some of all of the you know other viewers and things like that that have stories to share from experiences of either trauma or excitement or running into sharks or breaking things or or hurting themselves but also the incredible joy that comes out of it that session that you had with rainbows that never happens you know or
00:06:40
Speaker
that close encounter that you had with a dolphin or I don't know, who knows? There's all kinds of stories. So we want to invite people to come in and share some foil fodder for the people.
Philosophy of 'Foil the Flow'
00:06:49
Speaker
So we'll have long wave, long form interviews with some really incredible people. And then we'll have some short stories as well from all of you.
00:06:57
Speaker
So we're definitely looking for stories. If you've got stories, send them to us. Call them in. Yeah. We'll do a little Zoom call and and talk through some of the stories. I think there so many so many people have some incredible stuff to share. yeah And I guess we can say is, why are we even called for the flow?
00:07:14
Speaker
Basically because we couldn't think of another name that rolled off the sounds good for the flow radio. So that's kind of been my hashtag for for at least a few years. But I really enjoy that philosophy because you can't fight the current, right? You can't go against the current.
00:07:32
Speaker
You can't fight the flow of life, right? But you can certainly go with the flow. Again, it'll be a little exhausting. It might not be sustainable. Yeah, it's not sustainable. Certainly, yes. But you can play with the current. You can
Jeff's Foiling Shop
00:07:46
Speaker
play with the wave. You can play with the flow. You can get on a foil and you could ride that flow and have the time of your life. Yeah, yeah. If you just. Tap in. Yeah, tap into it.
00:07:57
Speaker
and Just your priorities to be that I'm gonna have fun on this. So you started a Your own shop essentially here on on Kauai and when we say shop, it's a small place I mean, it's basically run out of his home things like that brick-and-mortar shops here essentially the only way they survive is by selling trinkets and really crappy boogie boards because we're in a very tourist destination Maybe with a rooster on it. Right. So foiling shirts with roosters they might sell to keep you afloat. But instead we're running a business out of Jeff's home and essentially he's acquiring gear as a as a distributor for all kinds of brands and all sorts of different genres and techniques. and
00:08:41
Speaker
And we're doing we're teaching foiling few people every you know, several people a month we are given lessons Mostly on wing falling. I occasionally give surf for lessons But that I think both of our backgrounds come a little bit from the training. I did a lot of military training, which is more yelling at people than actually instructing people sometimes. But but I also was a windsurfing instructor in college. So I learned
00:09:16
Speaker
the windsurfing techniques and its wing foiling is so much of the same wing same techniques as windsurfing. So, and hopefully that translates. So would you say that with Pacaf oil you do more, instead of shoving brands and like this is the product you need, you kind of give people more of a philosophy?
Evolution of Foiling Gear
00:09:37
Speaker
I give a philosophy, I give options. I think ah that's one of the things is i I try to break out a hard handle and a soft handle wing. I try to break out a couple of different foils and show them. And you're you like, this is the best one. You should have this one. Yeah, that's I shove that down the throat early on.
00:09:56
Speaker
And then they don't ever see him again. So we basically were like, here's all these incredible options. And everybody has a different style, body shape, technique, or or body of water that they're going to be using this level. So it's all preference. And everything at this point in foiling works.
00:10:14
Speaker
If you're getting into foiling now, it's the best time ever because there's like three to five years now behind it of it being commercialized more or less. There's a lot of gear out there. There's a lot of great gear. And it works. Absolutely incredible gear. Some of it's better or different? No, some of it is absolute crap though. There is a lot of absolute crap on Craigslist and on Facebook Marketplace and everything else.
00:10:39
Speaker
So, yeah, you got to ask around. I would ask more than one or two people, though, because there are people that are such diehards for certain brands that I don't really understand it. I mean, I still don't think there's any one brand right now that makes a great foil, a great board and a great wing. Everything all packaged together. That's a pretty tough combination. That's a very tough competition.
00:11:04
Speaker
And so far, I don't think there's anybody that even makes two of the three right now.
Foiling During COVID
00:11:11
Speaker
Like the top five foil, top five board, and top five wing. So this is a great, I'm glad you brought that up. What is the philosophy then? We've talked about it a few times. Yeah, we've talked about it a lot. We've kind of had three things that we're looking for when we try out a new brand or a new company or a new equipment.
00:11:28
Speaker
Well, or what is do they even talk to us? that's very important We might be little nobody we're a nice sideliner but we are an a white island yeah tiny little island what is it sixty thousand on quiet i think it's probably about me seventying five who We got a light we got a light in on this side now stoplight there's stop light on the extra stoplight on the west side Whoo things are getting crazy in town now, but yeah, so I think our philosophy number one is, ah we we've talked about a lot, is three things. We're looking for three things for a foil. Number one, great gear, right? Quality. Gear that's going to last, um gear that's going to be tough, gear that
00:12:14
Speaker
Transparency of their gear of like hey this gear can do this. It's not so good at this ah You don't find that a lot in companies Everybody's gear is the greatest thing ever sure and yeah i in this competitive environment. Yeah, I guess you have to sell it that way but I like a little bit of transparency of of things. There's so much still working on this so many technical variables yeah and really when we're looking through stuff online or wherever we can see it because we live in a remote location, can't always get our hands on something immediately, especially when it's first coming out or developing.
00:12:49
Speaker
But if we can find images of those connection points and the types of hardware that they use, and maybe the aspect ratio, some of the technical things. We have a definite. You like to look for that integrity and quality. Yeah, that at this point, we definitely know what we want in gear. And we know, oh my god, I think that will work exceptionally well. That will work better than anything else we've done. But yeah, the number one is the gear has got to be great. Quality gear. The number two is. Quality build.
00:13:13
Speaker
is that we actually vibe with the people. Yeah. So this comes back down to great communication, right? There's a great industry or great industry fee people out there. Usually they're trying to sell you something, sure but going beyond that of of the people that are trying to sell you something, but you still You wanna have a beer with them? You're a human, I'm a human. We're both doing something we enjoy. Can we communicate about this? It's not hard, we're not asking for it. Do I wanna have a beer with them is my kind of thing. And can I enjoy having a beer with them? Because there's people, maybe you're just having shot gunning beers just to get through the conversation too. And then what was the third thing? Yeah, we forgot already. We have three things, it's not that hard.
00:14:00
Speaker
Communication, quality gear. Oh, getting it here. Oh, accessibility. We kind of talked about that.
Foiling as a Meditative Sport
00:14:05
Speaker
Yeah, accessibility. Yeah, so we're on a small island. I don't keep much inventory. I keep enough inventory. Very minimal, extra new boards. I keep mostly a rental fleet of stuff. Some of it's kept here in my Mr. Walgreens. Yeah, yeah, we have the extra extra storage going on here because my garage is bursting, bursting at the seams.
00:14:28
Speaker
I don't know, 30 boards at this point? It's probably not an uncommon story. For anybody that's been into foiling for at least a couple of years, guaranteed you have a few too many things at this point. How many boards do you think? Personally? Including surfboards, right? This. Have you counted it or lately? 30? 40? There's three right here.
00:14:44
Speaker
that haven't been used in years. There's one, there's five, six surfboards. I don't even surf anymore, but I still got these surfboards. Yeah. Yeah. I have a few kite boards still. Luckily I don't have any wind surfboards, but yeah, back to the, uh, where were you? at done How, how, how easy is it to get gear? So I'm looking for people that could ship us as cheaply as possible out to this island. So we like working with the Maui shops. There's still a fair number of Maui shops. Unfortunately, some of them are recently closing, but they get a container of gear still. There's a few shops that get container of gear. I think anybody that's just one, it kind of goes into with the people that are that we vibe with. yeah they They have thought of other ways than other than UPS to ship a board out here.
00:15:35
Speaker
We are in a very isolated spot. like We're on the island of Kauai, and we're that much more remote even from the Hawaiian Islands as we're the most northwest. The one island and for the most one island that was never conquered, right? Kamehameha conquered all the islands after three failed attempts by Kamehameha to conquer Kauai. The Kauai chief said, you know what, we'll just pretend to be, you could be the king, it's fine, just stop killing all your guys coming here.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. So why did you start foiling? It was COVID time, right? So right at the beginning, or even right a little before COVID, I've been kite kit surfing. Kite foiling was a natural progression, right? to like Winds are terrible a lot of the time on Kauai and on Oahu. When you say terrible, that's comparative.
00:16:30
Speaker
no it's pretty bad on the west side if you go west side there is no wind so the thing is we are on an island and there's i mean as long as there's wind it's going to be wrapping around somewhere somewhere same with swell there's always going to be some little bit of a bump or a wave somewhere for the most part but it is fickle it shifts around the island and you've got you know land masses but you could also have days of no wind lots of humidity rain sure sure sweating through your shirt so this is a versatility in your foil repertoire might come in here yeah i thought i thought it would just be another discipline
Safety and Disciplines in Foiling
00:17:04
Speaker
of kite foiling would be another discipline and then um
00:17:11
Speaker
Basically, I had to pick up surfflowing because there were a number of non-windy days, and you could pretty much always go surfflowing somewhere on the island at at some part of the day. right And then wing foiling hit on strong, and I was like, well, that's basically windsurfing. That's easy. And it was for me, it was relatively easy to start picking up wing foiling.
00:17:33
Speaker
so I mean I learned windsurfing when I was 13 and since that time all my jobs pretty much have been how do I find a job at a windy place or how do I make sure I'm close to the ocean. The Navy was the answer for me to stay close to the ocean and hopefully be at a fairly nice base that was close to a windy spot.
00:17:56
Speaker
so that worked out for me at least and finally got moved out to here out to Kauai and uh moved to the west side though moved way on the leeward side of the island where there was no wind as a kitesurfer at that point and i was just like oh what did i do oh man i didn't think about it from that angle yeah yeah i was i barely could windsurf or barely could kitesurf when i first moved here because There were very few days. You had to hike your way into to Mahalapu, to Kitesurf basically. And they closed the gate at six o'clock or seven o'clock. So you had to get out as well. And then in COVID they closed down everything. And they closed it down. You had to completely hike in. Extra 15 minutes. But yeah, so those are the three things that I think we are looking for for brands that we that we
00:18:47
Speaker
Love. We want to try everything. No matter what, we want to try all the gear. I think there's, at times, I've been trying way too much gear because I can't switch. I don't know if you've done it too much lately. Still trying. No, but I mean, where you actually switch a completely different design of foil. Oh, I thought you meant stance. No, no, no. No, I change up my foils and stuff pretty regularly. No, but I mean, to try a completely different brand of foil. Oh, yeah, yeah. Where it's, or try a completely different shape of board. And like those first couple of runs,
00:19:17
Speaker
Oh, it's painful. So a little humbling. Yeah. Yeah. it's It's like you take three steps back in order to just try this and then it's like, okay. Oh, I just got to switch this up. I'm glad you brought that up because that comes down to tuning and there's still a lot of people totally opposed to tuning their foils, but because we're all different. You jump on something different. It's going to ride different and it's going to need a little bit of adjusting for whatever your style is, whatever the conditions are, whatever your body type is, all the things, you know, how you're powered up. So every foil is going to perform different.
00:19:48
Speaker
And this is something that that kind of turned me away in the early days and I got into foiling because I had a neck issue and I was a lifelong surfer since I could walk and Essentially had to stop and was like almost like a seven-year gap where I didn't so long It was definitely over five years and I went into ah a bit of a dark dark. There's a dark. There's a dark time There's a dark place and I had to find alternative things like the gym which I I'm not a big fan of the gym. I like to supplement my exercise. My wife loves the gym, so I go to have time with her. So there was that. There was free diving, because ah it was like extreme snorkeling for me at the time. But I loved being in the water. And scuba, actually, as a scuba instructor, even that was hard, because my neck, essentially, if I was in a prone position, it would it would do a nerve impingement. Left side of my body would go numb. This was very problematic for surfing. I didn't like being in the water with a half-numb body. It wasn't fun.
00:20:44
Speaker
so For years, I had no idea what I was going to do and just hoping this thing would go away and try and figure it out. Yeah, well, let's go into a little bit of that. so a we We, at first, I saw the kite foiling, did a couple of kite foiling, finally never got it, and did a little toe foiling, never got it, and then finally took in a ah lesson, right? With ah the the famous kite boarding paradise, Felipe on Oahu. Yeah, and then finally clicked, right? Just enough time, it was a terrible foil as well, but yeah.
00:21:17
Speaker
and Then still just slowly slowly slowly get it or slowly work on it kite falling was fine But it never really dawned on me until we all you know, I just bought a boat. I'm like It's my birthday. I'm gonna buy a boat. I would live on Hawaii. I live in Hawaii I'm gonna buy a boat and then we started going to the river. Yeah pulling each other everybody was pulling each other another guy bought a boat everybody was Was just getting the foiling down, right? right and you were one of the people early on that came in summer of 2021 it was for me yeah and i think uh you were able to at first i was like unsure if you were like uh just kicking away yes just
Accessibility and Inclusivity in Foiling
00:22:03
Speaker
for i was probably terrified of the foil like yeah a lot of people are
00:22:06
Speaker
or if you were playing to kick away, to make it more dramatic or fall. Because it was that dramatic. addict to it was that It was that much. my wife which Some of your falls were that dramatic, I thought. So I wasn't sure. Is he?
00:22:19
Speaker
Is he really falling? I'm glad I made an impression on you because look at where we are now. We're making podcasts. This is great. No, I think I was actually launching myself. It was a huge board. If I remember, it was a giant. you Yeah, yeah, we used a huge huge foil. And I remember getting this thing would come up and it would just like lurk and lurch and then not just tracking one way. It was a slow. It was like the Cadillac of it was.
00:22:46
Speaker
You turn the corner extended like turn the steering wheel you turn the steering wheel all the way over to the stops 10 minutes seconds later The the nose starts coming around and then a minute later the tail yeah goes around the turn Yeah, you just to stay regardless of my background or anything like that getting behind the boat and getting pulled is a really great way and that's something we definite But that's we haven't discussed that as much lately. I don't think it's even needed anymore for wing foiling Okay. Do you? I don't know. So far we've been kind of focused on ah the wing handling and the standing skills for most people. It depends on the people's background but I think you don't even need the foil lesson anymore. I think you can maybe pick it up later or you could pick it up as your winging. I don't think you need you know you just need a little bit of guidance of what you're trying to do sure now for the foil but I don't think
00:23:36
Speaker
the toe foiling is necessary. Toe foiling is definitely necessary, or e-foil is definitely necessary for surf foiling. And sup foiling, I think it's very helpful too. But I don't think it's necessary anymore for the wing foiling.
00:23:51
Speaker
So there's a lot of aspects to this. There's prone or surf foiling. There's wing foiling. There's toe foiling. There's e-foiling. We call these disciplines now. There's assisted foil.
Cost and Affordability of Foiling
00:24:04
Speaker
there's a There's pump foiling. I don't know. I probably missed a couple. Doc starts and pump foiling. Yeah. So there are all these different ways. There's still pipe foiling, which is still the Olympic sport. At the root of this, we have the foil.
00:24:15
Speaker
And that thing is basically like an airplane wing underneath the surfboard or a board of some sort and you're flying on that. So people that come to us that have lots of board experiences. I'm a professional snowboarder. I've been surfing my whole life or I should get this and nail it right away. Those are usually the ones that get humbled real fast, right?
00:24:35
Speaker
at least in my experience it seems like those because it's uh you're not balancing on the board anymore you're balancing on the foil below you right right right they're their their uh expectations and experiences about uh two feet higher than it should be yeah and the first thing that happens is somebody with board experiences they get on there and they try to lean kind of rail to rail to turn and that's when you get that taco effect right And that's why I was launching myself as far away from the board as I could that first because you felt it immediately like whoa I can't correct this so the board goes this way and the foil goes this way or sorry the board goes that way and the body goes this way and you just end up looking at the foil coming up at you and This leads me to want to encourage you all to know that foiling is safe
00:25:20
Speaker
In fact, statistically, it's probably safer than crossing the road. But it takes some logic, some so some thought, some safety, some learning how to fall. I think foiling is actually yeah safer than surfing in a crowded place. There you go.
00:25:35
Speaker
ah I still get hit when I'm foiling because there's a lot of my favorite break right now. Unfortunately, it's also a rocky break, but I get the foamer brand new foamer surfers out there and this break called shotguns it actually jacks up right because it goes over a very shallow spot and it jacks up occasionally and it's a it's like a barrel wave, right?
00:26:02
Speaker
but just for a couple of seconds. yeah And if you're in the wrong place there, like some of the foamers, they just, the board goes sideways. They can't see, you know, or they're, they're riding down the wave and they go right for you. Right. Cause I go, ah I try to stay on the inside to catch it there. But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, in general,
00:26:24
Speaker
I have not been hurt as bad as I've been hurt, yeah ah kiting, or as dangerous a situation as I've been in kiting or windsurfing for that matter. So if you will. So four years of foiling essentially for you, right? I think maybe five. Something like that, maybe more, yeah. Yeah. And about three for me with the also subtract about nine months or something for a knee injury and too much work.
00:26:49
Speaker
So with that said, no injuries for the most part. Maybe a little nick or a little bump or something like
Personal Challenges and Progression
00:26:55
Speaker
that here. A few cuts. Nothing serious. We do know people that have actually been through some pretty significant stuff. And they're foiling again still. So there's precautions to take. But we want to let you know that it's not dangerous, per se, comparatively. Surfing is just as dangerous.
00:27:12
Speaker
you know Bowling is dangerous. Everything's dangerous. I think you could say wing foiling is actually safer than a lot of different sports. Way safer. Because there's no impact, really, injuries. There's no really repetitive motion injuries. there's Especially if you're staying out of the surf, right? If you're staying out of the waves, I think you could. Well, we know. I mean, we know several people in their 70s.
00:27:41
Speaker
that have learned foiling, learned winging, and are still going strong. They're out there, and they're absolutely loving it. I'm glad you brought that up, too, because I'm 45 currently, and some of the guys that basically taught me were well into their 60s, and even the guy that's in his 70s. So this is a versatile sport, and what we want to also do is find ways to make this more inclusive, because still, it has been a privileged sport. The equipment is expensive, but as we mentioned before,
00:28:10
Speaker
The market's now kind of flooded, and most of the gear works. Some of it's definitely not as good as others, but that was a great time to get into this. Yeah, especially if you're like, go with a mindset of, you know what, this is a gear just for now, and I'll buy a new set of something after I figure it out a little bit more. If you go with that mindset that, or as I tell people, go with the mindset, yeah, you could buy a board, but start lining up your friends to sell that board to. Sure. yeah Buy a big board. Go ahead.
00:28:39
Speaker
but be ready to dump it very quickly because you progress extremely fast in wing foiling. I think surf foiling takes a little bit longer, I think you probably stay on the same equipment for a little longer, or you should stay on the equipment, and then salt foil, which neither of us are good at at all, I think at this point. I think that probably takes even longer, unless you're front coming from that salt background.
00:29:03
Speaker
that's good too so i'm primarily a winged foiler i've been dabbling a little bit in the prone foil but i'm also still being careful with my neck um and i've done a little bit of toe not a whole lot what ha what so what Sex or of foiling are you into? Yeah, so I've been um I did a little dabble of kite foil It's not a good place on this island to kite There's only a few spots really to launch. Yeah why The other parts of foiling are really good wing foiling is much more convenient. Yeah, you can not a tricky location Yeah, this that's this is why almost every kite surfer on kawaii switched to wing foiling is because there's just few spots
00:29:44
Speaker
to launch from and the accessibility it's opened up so many different beaches and Yeah, so I I Unfortunately, I prone foil more than I wing foil now just because I go at the end of the day wing foiling wind the wind You you really got to pick your times here and I have been burned so many times by going late I just got burned the other day by going too late big paddle in Yeah, so But yeah, I'm just want to start dabbling into the downwind now. We got, we got the boards for it. We got some extra, the, uh, the five Oh, uh, uh, pocket, uh, pocket wings to try. There's exciting times in the downwind world. And of course we're at a year or two behind, uh, uh, uh, for the downwind, but I am excited to try a new discipline.
Community and Story Sharing
00:30:37
Speaker
I'm okay with being humbled again. Uh, but yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
It's going to be another another very humbling experience, I'm sure, at the very at the very outset. So we really, I mean, not only did foiling change my life and and really bring a lot of new joy and exploring and excitement and a new board sport, essentially, into my life. OK, but why? What does foiling do for you? Opens up the whole ocean. So we were talking about surfing. I came from a surfing background. Surf spots, good surf spots, are very limited commodity.
00:31:11
Speaker
There's no more new surf spots for the most part. The world's been explored. And unless you're spending thousands of dollars to go to crazy remote locations, now in arctic places, because those are the only ones that aren't crowded anymore, like where do you go right and to enjoy it? my My wife is a very good surfer, and she basically stopped surfing because it's not fun anymore. It was crowded, people's attitudes, all the things. So now, why does that thing keep beeping?
00:31:41
Speaker
okay going into a new file So now the whole o the whole ocean is open So with wing foiling particularly and with downwinding those kinds of things it opens up Yeah, the whole I want to also talk about I mean for me the foiling is is my my basic one and only recharging activity, my meditative sport of getting into that and getting into that zone. And it's also my workout. It's my one workout that I can carve out at several times a week, right? And i get i ah my wife complains that I'm done afterwards.
00:32:21
Speaker
Right, I'm done after foiling, but I'm in a but i'm in a great place though. I'm hungry, tired. I'm cranky if I don't get to go to sleep at a at a good at a good time, but I am but i sleep better.
00:32:36
Speaker
I feel better and I wake up the next day refreshed and my head in a better space. So that's also one of those flip sides of foiling that I don't think anybody talks about enough. So this is the far that part of the floor of the flow. that's why before the flow is you got to get out there you got to keep learning you got to have a i think it's important for people to have that mindset of of of always learning something and i did say ocean it opens up the whole ocean but it opens up any body of water that's bigger than your bathtub for the most part i mean there's people pump foiling in tiny swimming pools you know i keep saying i'm not willing because that's that's that one niche where you can do it anywhere even if your grandfather's got a like a
00:33:19
Speaker
20 foot pond in the backyard you know you can do that so this is what's unique you can't surf everywhere in the world you I mean you can foil in rivers lakes ponds obviously the ocean I don't know if they're trying it in space yet but I'm just trying to think of some random place that you Can we send up more space? How would that work? And just derailed everything, right? Edit edit time. Edit time. Do we want to talk about some of the topics or talk about guests?
00:33:53
Speaker
So we talked a little bit about foil a fodder or foil fodder for the people. And I'm going to work on saying that. It's a good one to say. Also, it's fun to say. So everybody say it with me now. Foil fodder for the people. That's good. Foil fodder for the people. yeah And that's you. That's all of you sending us your stories. Well, any of you. There might be two of you at this point. Not all of you at once. That'll be overwhelming. Both of you might be over.
00:34:19
Speaker
So we do have like general questions. Obviously there's a couple of really great podcasts that we've been listening to that we've enjoyed that some of them get really technical and really into the nitty gritty and all the, all the things, all the variables. And I think that that's really important. We want to talk about some of that stuff too, but I feel like it might lose a lot of the people. So I come from a place where, and I'm teaching and stuff like that, where I love to pass these things on. And the couple of things that people always are like, I don't want to do it because it's,
00:34:49
Speaker
Expensive or there's too many boils coming towards my head. It's a knife or or you know ah Yeah, there's just too many variables It's really that's that's really what it comes down to too expensive and too many variables and it seems complicated So we want to simplify all of that in some way in in in these talks Make it fun share the stories and then dive into a little bit of like what what works in Certain situations what doesn't work at least for us based on our experience and yours and along those lines is How do we get some more kids out there, right? ah So far, the only people I know, kids foiling, or there's a couple of kids that are just like, that's what I want to do. But they're very few. And it's tricky because it's expensive. yeah So they're either having to go out and I don't think kids mow lawns anymore or deliver newspapers. or
00:35:38
Speaker
and Don't think they actually they're using their influencer money to to pay for foils apparently Which is we're we're not important that clearly but We do support that if it's gonna get you where you need to go. Just don't get your expectations up
00:35:58
Speaker
so yeah we want to make it more inclusive not only kids but more women how to get how to get more people into foiling because honestly foiling is gonna save the world so we've done a few giveaways basically when I've gone through stuff if I've been been blessed by somebody that's helped give me give me some some tools and some things to work on or to grow with and I use it and I outgrow it. If I can, I like to do a giveaway. I find somebody that like, hey, like this stuff worked for me to learn on. I'm not using it anymore.
00:36:31
Speaker
Try it out and if they don't like it, they can give it back or they can pass it on to somebody else. So we try to keep that that flow going and essentially what I've seen in a lot of the industry going to trade shows and things like that. Many, many, many of these companies are focused on high performance products right and they're kind of forgetting the the baseline. We need to bring more people in and show them that this is attainable. It's advise it's an easy sport.
00:36:56
Speaker
to get into. It's a little pricey, but not right now. It's not super pricey right now. It's getting way better. Yeah. For example, getting into it for me three years ago, I needed to spend the minimum of kind of like three grand. That's still about to get really decent gear. Or maybe a season old stuff or something like that. But for example, now you can go get all that same stuff that I was chasing after at that time.
00:37:21
Speaker
for, you know, like under a grand, you can get a wing, a foil, a board. Well, let's face it though. It's not gonna be great. If you get hooked, if you get hooked though, it doesn't matter how much you spin, right? You're gonna spin all your disposable income towards getting an extra board, an extra foil. Which is one of the questions we're gonna ask our guests, right? So does your wife or partner see your bank ledger? And how's that working out for you?
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, has she seen your your expenses on your foiling expenses? Do you hide new board purchases?
00:37:58
Speaker
We'll have you ever we'll start a side psychology. Have you ever hit an important? Foil purchase yet better help for foilers or have you like slow-rolled? The purchase I've been really good actually I'm diligent with trying to make sure that when I buy something new I'm selling something old I'm finally at that stage I'm finally at that stage, but it's been a journey Yeah, I still have way too much gear way too much
00:38:28
Speaker
and no room for it and no money for more. I want to ask, what are you struggling with right now in the following world? What are you struggling with? What do you suck at? Well, I suck at anything that's not wing foiling. So any of the other disciplines I suck at. No, no, you did not. No. ah You just tried prone foiling the other day one time. And at the end, you pumped your way in. I was really, really excited about that. I almost said that. but then i would have to
00:38:59
Speaker
and We don't use that word here. No, but most people, even good surfers, even great surfers, great pop-up, that's what I think people don't focus on, especially even in the wing floor. I think you've seen it as well as the people that get up like, whoa, where their pop-up is like, like they they kick out their leg when they pop up, and they're or they bring their knee around.
00:39:23
Speaker
when they pop up and on the wing foiling as well those are the people are going to struggle right because you need to get down to that controlled mindset of smoothness it is very smooth yeah and your your a surf pop-up is explosive yeah and it's out of control a lot of times but you you dialed it in you had your pop-up after four fall four or five falls. I think I had 10 attempts, and it was like three or four of them was up on foil. The last two, I would count as actually. Yeah, it was great. You don't see that. It helps that you are a very experienced foiler, a very experienced surfer. But one session, it is possible, folks, to get into foiling. I'm dying to go again. I know I haven't showed that enthusiasm. I'll work on it.
00:40:10
Speaker
The neck thing is still a little problematic for me, but that's why I wing foiling again. Well, let's talk that. Because I was able to start in a vertical position. We haven't really discussed it. You start on your knees and I'm in a vertical position. This is why it's really good for people that might have, you know, other kinds of flexibility issues. yes your Mobility issues. mobility issues.
00:40:29
Speaker
We won't say anything about age or longevity, but you know, mobility issues is is is a wide encompassing phrase. And yeah, I can start in a vertical position, get a little bit of wind going, stand up, yeah you're tired and you're fully powered by nature. So that's why I'm totally hooked on winging, but that's not what I suck at. What I what i do suck at is Try, like, so when I go out for sessions, I definitely usually try to pick one thing to work on, one thing that I'm not quite good at. Like maybe a, I'm like eight out of 10 on my heel side tacks, which is one of the harder tacks. And then you can throw in all your different variables of how you swing the wing and all this other stuff. So I'm still working on my heel side tack. I want that 100%, you know, and I'm looking at other guys online, like a lot of you are for those techniques and what to do. So other things I suck at.
00:41:22
Speaker
um staying motivated to work to pay for the things that I that I am writing because I just want to wing all day every day I call it uh maxi min I think my philosophy on this is is uh maximize the money for the minimum amount of time they have to invest in it so that I can maximize my my water time oh you could do a whole like master course on yeah yeah uh yeah but I'm gonna coin that phrase right now maxi min I don't know if it's out there already, but... Sounds like a feminine product. Yeah, it could also be that. yeah Maybe I'll rethink the name. Okay, so what do you suck at?
00:42:08
Speaker
Mostly I suck at carving out the time. uh... right now there's lots of parenting lots of uh... lots of other things to do lots of other obligations we're both married we have obligations and bills you bills is that an obligation or is that a it is when it's taking away from the funds that i have for the toys that i want to play with yeah but uh... so but our lives are basically circle oh we didn't discuss that but our lives are basically circle around foiling and we're throwing that other stuff of
00:42:43
Speaker
being a good husband, being a good father, a contributing citizen. yeah But basically, the other reason we did start the podcast or want to get out there is my wife's kind of tired of talking about foiling. I want to drive and talk about foiling. My son, he's a great foiler. Soccer's kind of a little above it right now, though, of of his time commitment and his interest. But he's a great foiler already.
00:43:13
Speaker
He only wants to talk a little bit about foiling with me even my wife done yeah Yeah, absolutely done. She doesn't want to talk anything for me and so car rides not my favorite topics usually right i want to be i i think we have some of our best conversations while we're in the car and we're driving somewhere on the island i think what's happened is that yeah just our conversations of like oh my god did you see that oh my god did you see that or you know what i was trying the other day or the uh or even
00:43:48
Speaker
it's going off over there and i can't go i'm so frustrated you know those conversations we're having in the car where were both finding ourselves driving in opposite directions very slowly and And there's no chance of potentially a little selfish we wanted somebody to bounce ideas off tell stories talk about this stuff because the the You know the reality of it is is that those the those that are in our lives that don't do these things We're so excited Enthusiastic about it that we could talk about it too much and so we needed an outlet and I think that maybe a lot of you do too So that's why we want you to send us our your story so we can talk about them and we'll even get our guests to talk about interview Yeah, lots of interviews
00:44:29
Speaker
and And that's why I would say this is kind of the roadside companion. We we we want to be roadside companions that are excited, frothing even, about talking about foiling. That we absolutely love foiling. It's such a big part of our lives now and I foresee it for
00:44:51
Speaker
Three decades, three more decades. It's got to be a motion to go. I think not only that, but it's like, I'm pretty sure wing foiling is going to the Olympics, all this stuff. And there's, there's so much room for a growth and exploration with foiling. Right. And yeah, I am definitely trying to get my wife to go. I've been, been ceding the idea of taking a designated trip. She's been tow foiling. She has been behind the boat. Yeah. And wasn't.
00:45:16
Speaker
Turned off. We actually I know a lot of you out there have had to start alternative You know social media accounts because even you're you know for me I've spent you know 27 years as a mural artist and my my social media feeds have revolved around arts and creativity for the most part and then three years ago all of a sudden I started plugging in foiling stuff and I definitely watched my my following shift. Oh okay. My numbers dropped and then the the the foiling followers picked up so there's been an evolution there but I've seen a lot of you guys have had to start alternative accounts because you're you're your original followers. How many artists are in your
00:45:57
Speaker
You're still or that how many artists there's only a handful of other artists. I do have a great buddy That's a very good sign writer muralist on a wahoo that I've been able to connect with Basically through foiling so we we're both artists and both foilers and that gave us a really cool connection point Jeff grass Because I there's only a few military former military whatever guys that I that I know of foiling I mean we had a little community on the base of of kite kighters and everything else but yeah mostly it's the forty-year-old guy uh... and yes we want more women more kids out there foiling but yeah so far it's a very unique demographic for some reason a lot of helicopter pilots are filers that's interesting yeah a lot of pilots uh... i have a lot of uh... uh...
00:46:51
Speaker
airline pilot Well, maybe that will actually makes sense because of the the engineering that goes behind creating a foils. They already understand from like model airplane builders and stuff like that or aircraft or they understand the what the wing is doing yeah and what the stabilizer is doing. Yeah, fair enough.
00:47:08
Speaker
So essentially, we want to break down some stigmas. we We don't take ourselves too seriously, and we definitely see a lot of people already taking all of this stuff a little too seriously. that That's a good point. My theory is that the person in the water having the most fun is the most rippingest person in the water. Okay. Do you want to discuss that right now? Full drive. They're having a lot of fun, though. They are having fun.
00:47:31
Speaker
i'm i I'm struggling. Let's call it foil assist right now. Because there's a few systems out there that yeah work similar like this. And some of them are more dialed in than others, haveve had a little more time to develop. But I think that there's a lot of evolution still to come from that. It opens up a whole other genre of ability. Let's just say I am totally sick of seeing any e-foil add among my feed.
00:47:56
Speaker
That actually upsets me, because I don't think I could break it out. I don't think I could say, don't do e-foil. Or maybe there's a way. If somebody knows a way to stop e-foil of the guy turning in slow motion on his e-foil as the most exciting thing ever yeah in my feed, if we could eliminate that. Context, though. Because there's people out there that are never going to be extreme foilers. And the e-foil is going to be the one like most exciting. It's like a jet ski.
00:48:22
Speaker
yeah Like jet skis, you get on a jet ski, you push a button, you go zoop, zoop, zoop, you can go around in circles. It's foiling for the people right there. So it's got its place. It's got its place. But I think that what's more important, and this goes for many of the foiling genres, is that fact that it opens up the ocean or the river or whatever. so You don't need to be in that concentrated surf zone.
00:48:45
Speaker
That's better for a second and is this is better as a spot. You better not be if you have a motor You better not be in the surf zone. Yeah, that's the one of those Uh, oh that's pissing me off right now. It's it's tough because it it has such a uh, it's such a tool And it's so much fun but if you're basically I don't I don't know I don't know what to say about that because if you've got like 50 guys out on a peak. That's a surf spot. That's been established for 70 years as a surf spot and then you're out there and you're not paddling you're not working you're just And then catching waves and catching a wave Even the surfers that are out there that are paddling and working hard They have a rotation system and they get cranky at each other if somebody's ruling naked No, no got to be some ethics and some morals that are applied to all those things. It's
00:49:37
Speaker
I feel it degrades your skills. right At this point, I think the assist motors are actually ah not allowing people to progress their skills. that you know At some point, it helps, I think. I think probably in the downwind arena and maybe the surf foiling arena, it helps to get out. As an assistant. Yeah, to get out there. yeah But I don't think, from what I've seen, the guys aren't pumping.
00:50:01
Speaker
they're not They're not working on their pumping as much I've actually seen some guys that I thought were incredibly good at doing with you know The chip in double-dip whatever yeah you you prone pump paddle into a wave you catch that little bit of foam Then you pump back out and you catch a couple of waves now a lot of those guys They're getting into these assist foil assist Driven motors and they're kind of losing some of those skills. Yeah, I think It's kind of like a you know, you're on a jet ski you get tired being on a jet ski just from It's I kind of think it's the same
00:50:37
Speaker
Is that a workout? Because the reason, one of the reasons, main reason I go in the ocean is for a workout. I wanna get tired. And I wanna be, I wanna enjoy it getting tired. That's why I don't go to the gym either. I could get sweaty in the house. In the sahana. That's not fun either. fair enough So I think that yeah, it's it's got a place and it's got a learning tool.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah, I struggle even saying it's a discipline now, but it is a discipline the assisted assisted motors For falling is now a discipline and we can't be brand specific But what is rule we will talk about one is ruling but yeah, it's it's got a place and just as we saw at the latest latest trade show, you know, we signed Hood River and The wind died completely. So there if you look at all the the media coming out of that one, a lot of wake foiling. Yeah, pump foiling. A lot of pump foiling, lock dock starts. Not our favorite stuff. Flat water, paddle ups. Yeah, not or sinkerboard. Paddle ups. too much time on on your hands. That's not what I want to do. Foil driving, that's that's not what I want to do right now. so
00:52:00
Speaker
we we I still have a bit of a purist stance there. When I say that, I almost have to swallow my words because we actually also behind the scenes talk a lot about sup foiling and how elitist in the downwind crowd and aspects that has become because it is a hard discipline. It's also a dangerous, sorry, not dangerous, but it's a more consequential Oh, yeah genre for foiling because it's a one-way ticket and not only that if you're in a group of people and somebody goes down You can't really circle back and help anybody whereas you can do that with wings there's a few or people that can circle back They're a little bit there are like five in the world. Yeah, so for me safety is a huge thing in the ocean i I've dealt with trauma in the ocean lost friends in the ocean. So for me wing foiling has been the the be off because I can go anywhere I want I and can go upwind I can circle back I can go upwind to downwind I can ride in the surf well you're one of the few people I know that is always with the phone yeah so I keep devices with me I keep a whistle I keep a little knife for fishing line stuff like that you never know really
00:53:10
Speaker
It depends on where you're at. If you're in Hood River, there's there's salmon nets. If you're out here, you got sometimes trolling lines that are strewn across and a reef. We just had that. or We had an anchor line or or some other line that we both ran into yeah the other day. So that just brings me back. to like there's There's definitely all these different genres of foiling now. And each one is kind of almost creating their own cliques around it and some elitism.
00:53:36
Speaker
And I still feel like that I'm a little bit of a purist that I don't want to do the foil is this thing because I like using natural elements. That's why I'm out in the ocean. That's I want to use wind and surf power. Exactly. My own strength in my two horsepower. That's why I find wing foiling particularly the most recharging meditative sport for me is I could be going downwind or even going upwind.
00:54:03
Speaker
with no noise, yeah right? It's quiet. You're going the exact same speed as the wave. The waves are not breaking. The the foil's making almost no more noise. The wing is making almost no noise. And that is like the most pure ah experience I've had in forever, right?
00:54:25
Speaker
I call it the harnessing the natural elements. You're not fighting the elements, you're working with the elements back to the foil of flow. And that, I can never say that anything else has recharged me, like those kinds of experiences. It can be as relaxing as you want it or as extreme as you want it. Yeah, or yeah, I could start working on the waves, working on the little bumps and look around as well. Stand really hard up all the time. Or you can fly the thing with two fingers, you know? Yeah. A little harness.
00:54:55
Speaker
ye So it's versatile and that's, you know, that's it. We want to share all of that. This is a fun thing. We're passionate about it. It's exciting. There's a lot of room for growth. We're learning a lot of room for talk. So we want to hear some stories, send them in and, um, let's just see what happens here. Let's have some fun with it. I don't know if we got much else we can, we can chip away at some of these other things, but we're happy to share these stories and let's just, uh, I don't know. Just let's all just get along.
00:55:26
Speaker
You can't end on that. Who said that? Let's all get along. I don't know. Won't you be my neighbor?
00:55:41
Speaker
Some of the things that we're going to go through and the questions that we've got. Hey, who do you want to see? yeah let Let us know who you want us to interview. we We've got great connections. we have ah As a shop and a school have a lot of connections in the industry already. Some amazing foilers out there, your surfing background. You you know a few guys that have transitioned over. Yeah, yeah they've transitioned. yeah yeah Some of them still dabble back into the old. old ways but there They identify as foilers, let's just say.
00:56:22
Speaker
Now, they used to identify as a surfer, or they used to identify as something else, but now they identify as foilers. I think that's a safe way to say it, right? Other things we want to talk about is routine. Like, what's your pre-foiling routine, post-foiling routine? Not too much, though. It's mostly about 90% foiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yes, I want to know. Not the toppings on your pizza. He doesn't have coffee. I don't understand that. A tea snob. That's my thing. I need to learn about this, because I am over sugared and over caffeinated too much. That's why we're going to have to do all of this over again because this morning I ran out of my really special Irish breakfast tea. So I zipped over to Big Save this morning and they're having technical difficulties. This only happens on Kauai. The grocery store is closed. It's Saturday and I had to drink some of my wife's matcha tea, which is very sacred. I had to do it in secret because she weighs that stuff. She knows exactly how much is left.
00:57:18
Speaker
like at the end of the feeling off my end of the night she's like a bartender measuring each how much is left of each ah she is the mocha tu
00:57:28
Speaker
I want to talk throw out one thing there. is you know I keep getting calls. ah you know People want to come. Hey, do you rent boards? Hey, what's the conditions like? There's a couple of different discussion topics there. But one thing is the the tire kickers, right? you know You're selling stuff. I'm selling stuff. We got a lot of great used gear.
00:57:50
Speaker
Or I got some new gear. I'm a dealer for a few different brands. Quite a variety of things, too. Yeah. And a awesome full spectrum of and expense. And that's what we talked about. is We try to ride everything. we We personally buy for ourselves and ride what we love. And then we support and push what we push what we believe in. And sell whatever we believe in as an awesome set of gear. yeah That is ah totally our philosophy. Yeah, as far as Pecan Foil goes,
00:58:20
Speaker
we We get everything that we can, try everything we can. buy what we love and ride what we love, and then and then encourage you to to buy what we believe in. And and along those lines is the capable, and I go, and we talked a little bit about it, as the capabilities, right? Is certain, everything, a foil, a board, and a a wing, has certain features, certain capabilities, certain parts to it that we love. Like, for instance, the board, it's gotta be a tough box. The foil box has to be,
00:58:53
Speaker
100% non-break. yeah if it If a board breaks on the foil box for me, I'm not in love with that brand anymore. uh granted sometimes they go through like a manufacturing issue that's true that's true we're not totally cut throat like that you know give them a chance to work out their kinks but again that goes back to our kind of three priorities is that integrity if they're willing to communicate transparent about it to help us figure it out hey we figured out this and it was this and we fixed it guaranteed yeah
00:59:25
Speaker
I'll trust, i'll I'll try that guarantee. that That's an interesting thing because now that this industry is growing, there are brands that are getting big. Right. And essentially. Consolidation of there's all these big guys. There's already starting to be acquisitions. And this happened in surfing, this happened in wind surfing and things like that. And they kind of, they they get so big that that there's inevitably going to be manufacturing difficulty. And they lose touch with the people. Yeah. Right? It's just such a big brand telling you what is the latest and greatest and what you want. yeah So I definitely lean towards the smaller guys. I always kind of have been the root for the underdog sort of person, but I also like the the personal touch that's there, you know something that's handmade, or you know the guy that made your equipment. And maybe it's not all being coming from a factory somewhere. And so far, that equipment has been awesome. it's the The smaller boutiques that we have been working with, the small brands, they have been some of the best gear.
01:00:23
Speaker
that we've tried, I think. Not only that, we really want to want to love on them because because of that acquisition that's happening. I want to see that. They don't want to become corporate entities, right? And their philosophy is 100% out of corporate entities. They do things right. They are taking care of the ocean. They're taking care of reducing waste. Creating programs around like trade-in. Yeah, incredible stuff. yeah And hopefully more brands can can can work on that.
01:00:52
Speaker
But yeah, some of the capabilities like a foil, i I don't know, we haven't talked in a while about it, but I am 100% M8 Torx. It has to be M8 Torx for your primary parts. And it has to be um preferably titanium, just so it won't, so a lot of people don't know that, stainless steel.
01:01:16
Speaker
It actually does rust. It rusts much faster. And then it depends on what you're connecting it to. So you've got mixed metals. that Depends on what you're taking care of it too. Yeah, and how much you're taking care of it. So I love that. And then wings. ah You're kind of a hard handle.
01:01:33
Speaker
I love the hard handles for sure. I've gone back to soft handles based on a brand that I really like working with. And it's lighter. So much lighter. It's consistent. It's stiff. It's all the things that I'm looking for. i like Yeah, I like a small diameter now of the of the leading edge. That makes a lot of sense now, going upwind. But the number one thing is,
01:01:59
Speaker
How long does it last yeah for me? Yeah. Can it take a beating? Can can we, as as I tell people, as I've ridden on top of this wave on a wave. So I know it's a pretty good. it's it It's held my weight in lots of white water. yeah in like It I can tell it's it's pretty good. And then foils, we talked about before, some people call it the seagull shape. Some people call the mustache shape upturn with the little curl up shirt at the end there.
01:02:28
Speaker
is Seems to be the way to go right now the different sections a little flat at the in the middle a little ah Anhedral yeah, and then to a little Outward tip that seems to be the shape that gets the most glide gets really forgiving too as far as Still has a low end if you breach the tips on these like more curved boils They definitely seem to be a little more forgiving and still has a very good low end So that's what I think and winging, especially. ah The low end isn't as important once you get to a certain level. Unless you're trying to wing all the time and like no wind and all that stuff. Or downwind, yeah. But the top end, we haven't seen a lot of foils that get a good low end and a good top end. Now we're starting to see them, though. It's exciting times. It used to be you'd have to have kind of three different foils, you know, for
01:03:24
Speaker
for downwind or for for carving or whatever, now they're kind of starting to bridge those gaps and be a little bit more versatile. Yeah. So the one other thing, other than being of you know pissed off about anybody that's going through the lineup on ah on a assist, on a motor pod, the other thing I would wanna throw out there was, we'll just say it, Armstrong riders.
01:03:52
Speaker
Why do they always have to tell me that they ride Armstrong? They try to work that in their conversation almost immediately. Is that ah like a Tesla thing or a Rolex thing? Hey, do you see my, I got a new watch. Oh, let me check the time. You know, is that a? I don't know, but I can't help but think about that scene from along with King Polly, the guy in the Speedo, or he's like, you can be a hippo and you can put these stripes on, but you are still a hippo, but the moose.
01:04:21
Speaker
Right. just had that again. It keeps on coming up is, oh, so what what would you ride in this conditions? I asked somebody. And he's like, well, I ride an Armstrong. So it'd have to be this. is that the Have you seen other brands that are like that? I don't know. there's Get that kind of following? we get but like We get to be prideful in what we ride. you know And I love what I ride. and but i I'm going to go and show people that i that why I like to write it, not be like, I love to write it. This is the best. Look at me. But that's back to the, I love it because, you know, I love it because, oh my God, I love the KT boards. They're light.
01:05:07
Speaker
and a bomb-proof box, right? I love the i love the the Onyx foils right now. It's one of the fastest foils I've tried. It's got an incredible low end. It's got M8. That's why I love it. It's got an adjustable, really easily adjustable tail. So let's get, that's what part of this, I think as well, is getting into that what's working and what's not. And detail, some of the details, some of the specifics of what. The hardware thing is specifically weird. I've definitely seen podcasts and heard plenty of discussions about, like, it doesn't matter, these M6s are rated to this. That's wrong! That's wrong! And it's crazy to me because you can say whatever you want about the specs
01:05:54
Speaker
But yes, it can hold. In the field, everybody I know that's on M6, they're bending or breaking the bolts. Right. is in in the critical In the critical connection points. Right. not you know Obviously, you've got to have something. Yes. Yeah, I see that as well. That just drives me insane that, oh my god, no, four M6 can do 10,000 pounds. And that's more than enough. OK.
01:06:19
Speaker
But I stripped it. They're still bending breaking strips. I got to get a new one, because I stripped it. It got corroded. Or, yeah, not using the Torx head. Oh my god, I have broken every single, stripped every single other ah head, Phillips head. And the hex the heckx is the absolute worst. I cannot believe any manufacturer out there, please, please, change your hardware.
01:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, we've kind of stepped in Why are you staying that way almost like cell phone and technology territory where nothing's compatible? Like that's again why I like some of these other brands. They're making their stuff It's universal. they're things yes Yes. Yeah, that's a really nice feature the the thing that I like the least about foil industry is the Non-compatibility the elitism and then the non sustainability m7 Yeah, and so like you got a product that you'll be lucky to get it to last a year. That's not cool I just spent however many thousands of dollars on this thing and things are breaking falling apart or I can't even repair it because it's you know that crap or whatever and it's made out of Stuff that I can't reuse
01:07:33
Speaker
You know, when I first started getting into foil, the first first board that I bought brand new cracked and had all these like manufacturing issues and I called the company and they're like, okay, we'll send you another one. You need to chop that one up and throw it away. I live on Kauai. I have a mountainous garbage issue here that's not going anywhere. The hill in Kaka'a is not a hill. I'm not gonna chop up a...
01:07:59
Speaker
a non-biodegradable chunk of garbage and throw it into a landfill that we have an issue. So those things are really important to us, you know our at least to me. That's my least favorite thing about foiling is is the materials and the the not longevity. It's gotta last. Yeah, yeah it's gotta last. It's gotta be tough. We could only put so many foils up on our walls before we have no more room. I got a bit of a trophy room i'm going on in here for sure. no Are you foiling today?
01:08:30
Speaker
Saturday we got soccer family commitments soccer and These things are important. We might be going to get a dog today or at least visit the dogs I'm pushing for oh no for I'm pushing for that We at least just take the dog on a trip with us before you know, go go do an adventure Can't you do the like? Yeah, like what do you call it? Like babysit? Oh, yeah. yeah or dog situm Yeah, just check them out for a yeah, check them out exactly and then you put the vest on it so that somebody else adopts it and they haven't adopted me right right right I didn't think of it that way I didn't think of it that way
01:09:05
Speaker
good You got to make sure that are you foiling today? i'm probably not fliing today It's looking good though The wind is there So actually I'm glad you brought that up I had a friend that was really pushing me the other day to get a foil assist because we had a string of days That were pretty much glassy and no wind but there was still waves and I was like, you know what? I'm glad you guys are having fun But this is the day that I get to go do some work or spend some time with my partner or clean the house or mow the lawn Because otherwise, I won't do any of those things. I know I'm still working on my income so that I can just pay somebody to do all that stuff. I should. I have a list that I have promised to do. It hasn't. I haven't attacked that list as much as I should. So yes, it is nice to have a day of where you just have to say, nope, not today. But I still want to foil it. Yeah. yeah But discernment is important. Family and other commitments are important.
01:10:03
Speaker
Very true. All right, with that, we should probably go. The cameras are going to run out of juice here anyway. We've already lost one or two. One. Call us. Reach out. Let's get some stories out there. Foil fodder for the people.
01:10:19
Speaker
We wanna hear what you what you love about foiling. We wanna hear what you are struggling with. If you're one of those young millennial peoples and you don't know how to talk to people on the phone, then just make a voice memo and send that to us as a DM. That works too.
01:10:36
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. for if if If more than three of you tune in for Foil the Flow Radio, we appreciate it. We're gonna get lots of good facts.