Transcript
Speaker: I'm just waiting for the tea to get done.
Speaker: So I'm absolutely not recording right now.
Speaker: If we keep this, I mean, this is not me.
Speaker: I do not stand for the things I say.
Speaker: I'm about to start spouting all sorts of xenophobia.
Speaker: Oh, we're recording.
Speaker: Hi everyone, welcome to the Nordic Keyforge podcast.
Speaker: My name is Zaramis and with me I have Jason, the captain, Carl Algaraner and the hydrophilic attack.
Speaker: Hello guys, how are you doing?
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: Good night.
Speaker: Hey man, how's it going?
Speaker: So Jason, how are you doing?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker: I'm good.
Speaker: I'm very good actually.
Speaker: It's been a long week, but it's good.
Speaker: I'm good.
Speaker: Yeah, Hydro, are you feeling pumped for this episode, a very regular schedule that we have on this podcast?
Speaker: Yeah, I just came from a choir rehearsal.
Speaker: Those always fill me with energy, so that's good.
Speaker: So your voice is like powered up for your big announcement?
Speaker: Yes, I can speak.
Speaker: Everyone doesn't realize this is going to be a musical episode.
Speaker: A what?
Speaker: Musical episode, right?
Speaker: You got the memo, didn't you?
Speaker: You were going to be singing your... Oh, yeah, sure.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: So here is Hydro with Nature's Call.
Speaker: No, that's after I finished this tea.
Speaker: I've got to say, I've got to say, I do remember your Christmas...
Speaker: intro you did before i prepared that in like two minutes i just yeah we want to know how carl is doing and carl is not doing very well i'm i'm getting sick so but i will soldier on and i'll finish this episode and then i'll drink a lot of tea and you might feel better if you actually wear some clothes yeah i know but
Speaker: You turn up and you record naked.
Speaker: But I mean, this gives the kosher vibe, so I'm all for it.
Speaker: Once again, our dear listeners, you should be happy that you don't see any of us the way we do.
Speaker: It's so good to be back here on the podcast, everyone.
Speaker: Yeah, I will cover up a bit.
Speaker: the long-awaited segment that everyone has been waiting for, Forge Night!
Speaker: Yay!
Speaker: Okay, so Carl, you get to go first, since you will deteriorate in your quality of speech for the rest of the day.
Speaker: Yeah, pretty good idea.
Speaker: Like, I've had a really bad week.
Speaker: I've played Adaptive, three different games, three different matches this week.
Speaker: In ABR, first.
Speaker: That was such
Speaker: 2-0 loss.
Speaker: Then I played in the NKFL World Cup.
Speaker: That was a... Well, that was the best one, actually.
Speaker: So, like, fast adaptive.
Speaker: But I lost that one as well.
Speaker: And then I played adaptive again in the Kagi.
Speaker: Like, the play into the top cut in Kagi.
Speaker: And I lost that one 2-0.
Speaker: So... Bad adaptive week for me.
Speaker: And that is the most skilled format, isn't it?
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Very much so.
Speaker: Are you struggling to adapt right now?
Speaker: I think I need to find a new adaptive deck maybe or something.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: But adaptive has been a format that I've been performing good in in the past.
Speaker: So, yeah, I've never had this bad of a week with it.
Speaker: RNG, man.
Speaker: It happens to all of us.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's RNG, three games running, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But that's basically the key for which I've been playing, I think.
Speaker: No new sets?
Speaker: No experimentation?
Speaker: I have been playing on the dev server a bit.
Speaker: Yes, exploring my new decks.
Speaker: I only have like one display.
Speaker: Or 15 decks in total, actually, from the pledge.
Speaker: And yeah, I had a lot of fun with those decks.
Speaker: Quite a strong set, don't you think?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We'll see when we get to our Forge Knights.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker: But yeah, I've opened quite a few really good decks that win versus my tried and true decks of past sets.
Speaker: So yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker: And also, I've been playing some live Key Forge.
Speaker: I had a friend coming over this week.
Speaker: Introduced him to, like, obviously, I gave him a Menagerie deck.
Speaker: And yeah, he just wanted to keep playing.
Speaker: So we kept playing the same Menagerie deck four times versus some of my other decks.
Speaker: And today he texted me saying he bought three decks now from Alphys Vale.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: That's really good.
Speaker: So Menagerie works, guys.
Speaker: Menagerie works?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, I know why Menagerie works.
Speaker: We don't want those decks.
Speaker: We're always happy to give them away even sealed.
Speaker: I want them.
Speaker: I, Menagerie is fantastic.
Speaker: Like, I've been really happy with my two Menageries.
Speaker: That brings us to you, Jason.
Speaker: How's your Forge Knight?
Speaker: My Forge Knight has been longer than two weeks.
Speaker: It started with survival in Iron Alpha.
Speaker: I won my last game, and I won in just enough way for me to survive.
Speaker: Not quite enough for
Speaker: someone else to, I can't, is it Paper Zite?
Speaker: Or no, perhaps Pierre.
Speaker: He was hoping that I would be able to win.
Speaker: So he went down on one key, on the key difference on one key because I let my opponent forge too much.
Speaker: But I still won.
Speaker: I survived.
Speaker: And it was kind of a weird thing where if I'd actually won 3-0, I might have even been pushing promote, not promotion, it's the playoff promotion spot.
Speaker: as well so i if i lost i've been relegated if i won three nil i could have got promotions so close crazy crazy close uh but hallerfest um helped me out um that was really good i saved that deck
Speaker: But yeah, that was a really good end to the season.
Speaker: Really psyched.
Speaker: Signed straight up for Alliance Season 2.
Speaker: We've had to drop from Alliance because life has got really crazy this week, which is a bit of a shame because I was looking forward to that after the restriction list.
Speaker: Allowed me to... The deck that... I don't know if any of you remember, I talked about buying a Spanish deck with a restricted house.
Speaker: we will not forget anytime soon considering how much you wind after after that purchase yeah well well well you will be all happy to know that i am whining no more because that house is no longer restricted and i have an alliance deck with 40 dies in which i'm really pleased about i'm just looking for that third house i don't know where i'm gonna play it uh because no one plays a lights anymore um
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Apart from that, it was a bit of a wait for Grim Reminders.
Speaker: And this week in Grim Reminders, I managed to get 12 people, 12 new people playing Keyforge, teaching them Keyforge with my Grim Reminders decks.
Speaker: Most of the people loved it.
Speaker: A few of them just went home straight afterwards because their brain was about to explode.
Speaker: But they were just there and played.
Speaker: Some people just loved it.
Speaker: the game which is great for me for me i got to see my decks in action and people going is am i reading this right if i play this i get all i got like 12 of their ember i was like yep
Speaker: Pretty much.
Speaker: So it was a good way for me to see which decks won, which decks didn't win, and also kind of going with some of the players that I do know that are good at games and not good at games, or not good at games, but are quite new to the hobby.
Speaker: So that was really nice, and I got all my decks sleeved as well, the ones I've opened.
Speaker: Grim Reminders has been great.
Speaker: I've been exploring the decks, playing them as much as I can.
Speaker: I actually did a Grim Reminders opening on my YouTube channel on the Captain's Deck where I played two decks up against each other.
Speaker: And this set is powerful.
Speaker: This set is...
Speaker: can swing so easily with some of the cards.
Speaker: We're going to be going to the cards a little bit later tonight, but I'm really pleased with some of the decks I've got, but also a little bit like, I feel like I've got 13 very good decks from my haul, from Game of Harbletch, which says a lot.
Speaker: There are 14 of them I actually got.
Speaker: Seven of them have Ecto Charge.
Speaker: for example.
Speaker: So that kind of puts on the power level of a powerful card like Ecto Charge as a common in so many decks.
Speaker: This is going to be an interesting one.
Speaker: So I've been excited about Keyforge.
Speaker: So you can't play half of them in NKFL then?
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Tough luck.
Speaker: Yeah, the strategy is to open really, really good decks that don't have Ecto Charge.
Speaker: That's what I did.
Speaker: I mean, if I had the power to open the kind of decks I wanted to, I would not be in the position I'm in.
Speaker: Oh, you didn't buy the exclusive American Citizen-only giant deck pledge that got you much better decks?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: You did it.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So you got an Italian VPN as well.
Speaker: yeah yeah so that's been that's been my thought tonight um excited about the game and excited about the reminders but it's going to be a very interesting few weeks when we see the meta evolve yeah definitely i'm so glad and such congratulations for bringing people into the game that is really good news to hear uh hydro you brought in 34 people this week isn't that true
Speaker: No, unfortunately, it's not true.
Speaker: So I had, since the last episode, we had the end of the last season of NKFL.
Speaker: I had my last match.
Speaker: I needed to win one game and I won two games.
Speaker: So that was enough to end.
Speaker: First in my group.
Speaker: So that was good.
Speaker: Moving up from bronze then to silver for next season.
Speaker: Welcome to silver.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: Yeah, and I also for the first time won a cup, a side cup in the NKFL.
Speaker: I won the Unchained Cup.
Speaker: I have the best Unchained deck, I guess.
Speaker: Then I played some casual games against another player who was eliminated a bit earlier, and then he beat me 2-1.
Speaker: So I don't have the best Unchained deck, at least, but I had the best one of those I played against.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: And then other than that, I have received my Grim Reminders pledge as well.
Speaker: I didn't get a super large pledge, just like the 12 decks and then the bonus stuff.
Speaker: I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with my deck quality.
Speaker: I haven't looked at any ratings or stuff like that, but I
Speaker: In my opinion, the set has quite a big variance in card quality at basically all rarities.
Speaker: And I didn't really pull any deck where I had most of the good ones and not many of the bad ones.
Speaker: Like most of the time, I got the bad cards, unfortunately.
Speaker: Or maybe one house or two houses.
Speaker: One and a half house looks good, and then the other is trash, something like that.
Speaker: So Alliance.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: But I played, so I haven't played much though, so it's possible I will change my mind after playing them.
Speaker: I did meet up with Nick Iva in Stockholm and we played some games.
Speaker: We just opened, or we had already opened them, but we treated it as sealed.
Speaker: We took decks we had already opened and played them for the first time.
Speaker: and I completely ate shit.
Speaker: He won all four games we played.
Speaker: So I didn't manage a single wing.
Speaker: I didn't play the deck I had the strongest hopes for because I thought I had forgotten it at home.
Speaker: But I hadn't actually.
Speaker: That's how you preserve your win rate is by forgetting it in the bag.
Speaker: Yeah, so that one, the deck, I think, might be my best.
Speaker: It's actually my name deck.
Speaker: It's not as good as yours, but it has some fun stuff out of the four decks.
Speaker: Sorry?
Speaker: Have you opened all your decks?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But out of the four I tried, there was one deck that had a lot of steel.
Speaker: So I liked that one a lot.
Speaker: It went up against a deck that was very strong and high rolled a little bit.
Speaker: And I still made it a close match.
Speaker: So I think that deck deserves to test some more.
Speaker: It has good steel and good board control.
Speaker: adequate board control at least and a decent amount of amber on play if you count the steel so I think that one I should try I should test a bit more but yeah good stuff have you played any games on the dev server or are you still holding on I'm waiting for it to launch officially yeah yeah yeah
Speaker: For me, I played a whole lot of WoW over January, as you know from the last episode.
Speaker: I am currently trying to slog through a giant solo tournament to really determine like pre-GR what was my best deck in my entire collection.
Speaker: So I'm playing a round robin with 26 decks chosen from all the best ones that I've had through history.
Speaker: And they're slugging it out.
Speaker: And it's been really fun, even if I got sidetracked now by GR arriving.
Speaker: And I try, in order to give each deck, like, it's at least the new ones, the best opportunity to win.
Speaker: I pick one deck and then I play all its 25 other matches.
Speaker: So I really know that deck really well.
Speaker: And I don't play, like, all round one matches and all round two, because then I jump between different decks so much and I lose some of the
Speaker: like a groove in each deck.
Speaker: And I do that with the newer the deck or the more I'm familiar, the more I play them early so they get many matches in a row.
Speaker: That's an interesting round robin I'm playing, but...
Speaker: My last weeks have definitely been dominated by GR.
Speaker: And my story in Grim Reminders was this.
Speaker: I got my pledge.
Speaker: I had barely looked at the cards.
Speaker: I did not follow spoilers.
Speaker: I did not look at other people's cards.
Speaker: I just like, okay, I just want to open these.
Speaker: I want to see them for the first time.
Speaker: I want to see what these cards do.
Speaker: And I opened my name deck first.
Speaker: And I look at it and I go, what do these cards do?
Speaker: I have no idea.
Speaker: And then I started looking through it.
Speaker: It's like, oh, this card's archives, this card archives, this card also archives, and this card archives.
Speaker: That seems pretty good.
Speaker: And oh, this card draws cards.
Speaker: And in a way, it became so disappointing because my named deck is absolutely bonkers good.
Speaker: And everything else I've opened since then was like opening my pledge display after that was like, why should I play these decks?
Speaker: I've already opened the GR deck that I wanted.
Speaker: And I did what any sane addict did and bought 72 more right after in order to
Speaker: get past my disappointment.
Speaker: 72 more Green Reminders decks.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I bought them from the secret Vietnamese source.
Speaker: The Vietnamese black market.
Speaker: No, I bought them from there because he's our teammate.
Speaker: And me and Wick are now playing as we did with Rowie.
Speaker: We're playing a 72 deck tournament where we draft our lineups and so on.
Speaker: So that is my main...
Speaker: playing is right now playing in that tournament and we finished the draft today.
Speaker: So yeah, but I've been having a lot of fun with GR.
Speaker: It's really degenerate, but I mean, sometimes you're the one doing degenerate stuff.
Speaker: Sometimes they are.
Speaker: I hate the set when they do it.
Speaker: I love it when I do it.
Speaker: And isn't that like the...
Speaker: The best example of this set, it's really one of those, like when someone else pulls off these bullshit combos, you're like, what the hell are they thinking?
Speaker: This is the shittiest design.
Speaker: And then you go, ho ho, I take all your Ember, then I give all your Ember to me, I archive all those cards that did that, and I would do it again next turn.
Speaker: And you're like, oh, great set, unique combo.
Speaker: Yeah, pretty much it.
Speaker: And we will soon get to these things, but I have really enjoyed it and I have enjoyed the flashy plays.
Speaker: I enjoy that it feels different from WoWI.
Speaker: I really like WoWI as well, unlike some, but yeah, there's a lot more decision points in this one.
Speaker: It's fewer ones where you just leap out with a board and that's it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And in many WoW matches, it almost feels like a competition to be the first person to play out a board that can reap.
Speaker: And if you manage to establish that, if you got the first board and they didn't have an answer, you sort of take control of the match.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Whereas here is if you're the first one to combo.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: yeah if you because there are a lot of combo cards one thing i really love about this set is is is the interaction with the discard pile and it's not only in geistoid it's in all the houses uh you're just um you're the discard becomes like another archive
Speaker: in many ways with some of the things there are certainly no ways that that could go wrong in a balance i know right i know but like even like board wipes don't have the same effect anymore because you know if your home has green reminders they can do stuff with their their discard part so destroying a creature isn't enough you have to purge it um if you really want to get rid of it
Speaker: Yep, and I'm sure we will have an episode dedicated to the anti-GR strategies once it's gotten established for a while, but I already have some predictions that I think there are some really good control MM decks that can work wonders like in this set.
Speaker: I think that there are Worlds Collide decks because few GR decks have damage pips.
Speaker: They are not like OE or MM.
Speaker: They don't have a lot of spot removal.
Speaker: GR has terrible spot removal.
Speaker: True, true.
Speaker: Yeah, the kill that creature, it's like the Mars creature that reaps and then pulls them over.
Speaker: That is like the absolute best spot removal.
Speaker: But worlds collide with some wards.
Speaker: I mean, I think there are some powerful warded decks out there because the damage pips are nowhere to be seen.
Speaker: Like this entire plague of Woe-E where everything had damage pips and wards were just entirely useless.
Speaker: So if GR takes over, I'm actually pulling out some of my old decks again that got invalidated by a lot of that stuff.
Speaker: Like when I play on the dev server,
Speaker: more than half of the really good decks I face, I feel myself thinking, I wish I was playing Helena.
Speaker: And that was not something I feel against Woe.
Speaker: I'm like, oh my god, I'm so glad I'm not playing Helena.
Speaker: And now it's like, oh my god, and Ethan's Yarr, double Infernaz on this, oh, that would be juicy.
Speaker: Yeah, I like the fact that it's distinctly different from Woe and also playing GR you feel more in control.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: You are not tokenizing your two board wipes or whatever.
Speaker: Yeah, your deck feels stable.
Speaker: Yeah, maybe you're in too much control for my taste, balance-wise.
Speaker: But you can do so much to control how your deck operates.
Speaker: which is kind of a nice feeling coming out of Boeja.
Speaker: I like it overall.
Speaker: Before we've gone on for 20 minutes now, so we're going to move on to the main program item here.
Speaker: But I want to say one thing, and I think that many people agree with me, which is a little bit of like an encouragement for Ghost Galaxy.
Speaker: Please, in a set or two, make a back-to-basics set that plays like an updated quota with...
Speaker: similar but not the same sort of things that is just a good base set for people to enter the game again.
Speaker: Like a starter set, because now we are getting set so often that we no longer, you won't kill the game if you have one bad set anymore.
Speaker: Make a basic set with basic effects without any complicated mechanics.
Speaker: Because now you don't have to introduce any new stuff every set.
Speaker: Just make a set that has none of the new stuff and just play cards.
Speaker: They do shit.
Speaker: Have fun with the game.
Speaker: That's my little encouragement.
Speaker: And then I will add to that, tune down the rares.
Speaker: You don't have to have super spectacular rares that just warps the game.
Speaker: That's the direction I think they have gone in the last two sets and I don't like it at all.
Speaker: I think focus should be on the commons and uncommons and rares should operate a bit more like in previous sets.
Speaker: So back to basics, back to that piece.
Speaker: Agreed.
Speaker: And that is a perfect segue into
Speaker: our main program item because we are going to talk today about card designs that we like.
Speaker: This was suggested by... Pack, I believe.
Speaker: P-A-Q.
Speaker: Yeah, Pack.
Speaker: Danish keyboard.
Speaker: I think it's in Denmark, Danish land.
Speaker: Shout out to Daneland.
Speaker: I will look that up.
Speaker: I will fact check you on this.
Speaker: They have amazing pastries over there.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I love when people fact check me.
Speaker: I'm right.
Speaker: It's the best.
Speaker: We're going to talk card design and we have chosen a couple of cards each.
Speaker: Some of us have chosen from old sets.
Speaker: Some of us have chosen mostly from the new ones, but it's card designs that we like.
Speaker: It might be things that contribute very unique things to the game.
Speaker: They might be perfectly balanced.
Speaker: So in that sweet spot of sometimes really good, if you make the right decision, or it's just a nice card that does a,
Speaker: simple but elegant thing and I know that Hydro has been preparing some thoughts and I think we're going to go a little chronological so Hydro you have some old cards in there right
Speaker: Yes, I both have some old cars and some new cars, but maybe I should start with old cars.
Speaker: Just to confirm PAQ is Danish or at least he has a Danish flag in the document.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: He might be from Holland and he just realized Denmark.
Speaker: Yeah, it could be something like that.
Speaker: I think we all knew that he was from Denmark from the beginning.
Speaker: He's in the key of frogs in Copenhagen.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: All right, cards, Hydro.
Speaker: Yes, so just so I get it, the question now was just for cards I like or for all of the categories?
Speaker: Yeah, we start with cards you like.
Speaker: We will go around with cards we like, and then we will do cards that have very elegant or very good design from a design perspective.
Speaker: So cards I like, let's go with...
Speaker: An old card I like, Dr. Millie, I like a lot.
Speaker: So it's a Logos Uncommon from Worlds Collide, a creature that says, play for each creature your opponent controls in excess of you, not counting Dr. Millie or Kavacard.
Speaker: And I really like that card because it's, I'm not going to contrast this against a card I don't like as much later, but I like this card because it's a nice way to punish your opponent for getting ahead without completely breaking their deck.
Speaker: And it's a strong effect that can lead to some scenarios where you play around it.
Speaker: And I like the fact that it's a creature, so some decks can really abuse it.
Speaker: I have played against decks that
Speaker: that they bait me into making a board and then they play Dr. Millie and then they exhume Dr. Millie and then they exhume Dr. Millie.
Speaker: And yeah, I think it's a really fun design and it feels really good to when it looks like you're really behind, just take the turn where you maybe reap with two creatures and play Dr. Millie.
Speaker: And yeah, I just end up playing with that card.
Speaker: And that card was introduced in AOA?
Speaker: In Worlds Collide.
Speaker: AOA had a much worse version of this card, which was Master of the Theory, which was an action and required you to have an empty board for it to work.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yes, I remember.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Carl, do you have any other from the, or does anyone of you have from older sets cards you like?
Speaker: Just favorite cards from old sets?
Speaker: Yeah, I have some.
Speaker: Like, I think my favorite card from the earlier sets is probably Brainstorm and Tanna.
Speaker: just because of the combo potential of it and like the super high ceiling and the crazy stuff it can do and the versatility of the card.
Speaker: And Brainstorm and Channel, it says... Yeah, it's an upgrade.
Speaker: It's a rare.
Speaker: And it says, this creature gains after you play a Mars creature, read this creature and for the remainder of the turn it belongs to House Mars.
Speaker: So, I mean, it's both good in...
Speaker: in Mars, like playing it on the Mars creature itself, like a John Smith or something that can lead to crazy turns.
Speaker: But also you can house sheet with it, putting it on another creature.
Speaker: Like my favorite play is putting it on the Khalifi dragon I had in the deck, my back actually had two Brainstorm and Tannis in that deck.
Speaker: And then yeah, using Khalifi dragon, like five,
Speaker: times at one turn that's pretty nice it does sound pretty juicy one of my favorites i've seen pulled off is is brainstem tesmo yeah the main stone tesmo is a i think has a really strong league deck uh using brainstem i forget like what the combo she used but it was like once she gets there it's it's over it probably was tesmo actually
Speaker: One of my decks in the first season had Witch of the Eye and Brainstem so I could bring back all of the Mars House if the Witch lived for a turn.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: One of my old favorite cards from earlier sets, I am very vocal usually about, I don't like Kota and I don't like AOA much, but I do like the card Epic Quest.
Speaker: I've always just loved Epic Quest.
Speaker: The whole idea about you take all the knights, they go on an epic quest and they return later with a bunch of other sanctum cards and you get a key for it.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's just... It's very flavorful.
Speaker: It's so flavorful.
Speaker: It's so cool.
Speaker: I just bought an epic quest deck.
Speaker: It's beautiful.
Speaker: So that is definitely one of my favorite cards.
Speaker: I've never had a deck where it was super good, but every time I see it, I'm like, yes, epic quest.
Speaker: How many knights do I have?
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: How many keys have you ever made with epic quest?
Speaker: In a single game?
Speaker: I've done two.
Speaker: No, in total.
Speaker: I think I've made one in total.
Speaker: I had one deck that was pretty good with it.
Speaker: I think I made four or something.
Speaker: Total.
Speaker: I think I did two keys.
Speaker: Do you purge it?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I think I did two keys in one game once when I was testing it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: With this one deck.
Speaker: And it's got seven knights in this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: that I've got it in.
Speaker: Yeah, good card.
Speaker: Good card.
Speaker: I like that one.
Speaker: Jason, do you have any older cards?
Speaker: I think it's... Most of the cards that I was thinking about for my S episode, I was thinking about new ones, but I think my favorite card, everyone knows my favorite card, is E-Dive.
Speaker: E-4x4.
Speaker: I just love the turnaround taxing mechanic of
Speaker: raising the key cost and you can you know in multiples you can go crazy added archiving you can just i mean we've all we've talked about the game where i think it was a yonder king had a key cost of 78 um up against him um it can just go crazy um i think that was me was that you i was playing against yes i keep why do i keep thinking it's yonder king um yeah but that yeah that game
Speaker: And then Dave C., he has his 5 E die deck.
Speaker: Caruso, is it?
Speaker: Caruso, that's the one.
Speaker: Which is just a beautiful, beautiful deck.
Speaker: So I just love that kind of backwards...
Speaker: ember control um element of just raising the key cost yeah passive key cost it's also good against key sheets and so on so or yeah ones that aren't free keys yeah yeah exactly if you're gonna let your opponent forge you might as well tax them uh for it if they're gonna make them pay um
Speaker: i like that card it was kind of a statement they made in wales collide with that card where they said hey creatures now matter and you have creatures that can stay on board and do something instead of just do something when they're played uh and e-dice just have to sit there and if you can ward them up they they can stop the entire game plan so yeah yeah yeah all right we're moving to later sets uh hydro
Speaker: Yes, I got one card I wasn't sure if I liked until I played with it, which is Mass Buyout, which I have come around on a lot.
Speaker: I like it quite a bit.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: What do you like about it?
Speaker: So it's a common Equidon card from Winds of Exchange.
Speaker: It says, destroy each creature.
Speaker: Each player gains amber equal to half the number of creatures they control that were destroyed this way, rounded up.
Speaker: And I've found it's very versatile.
Speaker: You can use it to burst yourself.
Speaker: I've found that at least early on when the board matters kind of more to some extent, you can afford this cost.
Speaker: Like you can usually, before the first key is made, you can afford to give your opponent three amber
Speaker: if it removes the six creature board all in the same house, something like that.
Speaker: So I think it's kind of very well balanced to make.
Speaker: Often it's worth it.
Speaker: Sometimes it's not.
Speaker: So it's skill testing.
Speaker: And yeah, at first I thought it was like final analysis that you almost never play, although I've started playing that a bit more than I did at the start.
Speaker: But yeah, I found it's very nicely balanced, basically.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Carl, any newer cards that have really gotten like, oh, when you pull one, you go like, yes, I don't care if it's good.
Speaker: It's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, like an amazing card is Jervie, a witch from Untamed, which came in the Grim Reminders.
Speaker: It's a human witch, free power and elusive, and then it has a
Speaker: very very strong reap effect search your deck for a card and put it in your hand this is the card i want to find with the witch queen obviously um but i don't have it yet um but it also has have a scrap effect which is archive a card from your discard pile which is also super strong so overall like super solid solid card and i like the versatility of it uh like you have some
Speaker: some quite good bursts potentially in Untamed as well.
Speaker: So it's a real decision, like, do I play it or do I use the very strong scrap effect?
Speaker: It can help you retrieve something that your opponent discarded or things like that.
Speaker: So very, very strong card, and I like it a lot.
Speaker: All right, Jason, what about you?
Speaker: Yeah, I've got two that I really like here.
Speaker: One is I just love the flavor of this.
Speaker: It is from Grimerminger's Brodner card action called Final Refrain.
Speaker: Play, put each creature from your discard pile into play ready, then fight with them one at a time, destroy each creature, put into play this way.
Speaker: And I just love this because Bricknasty, if I'm not mistaken, is the only Brecon...
Speaker: member still in in the reminders and you've the the the artwork is brick nasty coming on for an encore and it's just a beautiful thing and i've just i've turned games with this like you set it up maybe after a winds of death
Speaker: turn, getting all my creatures, setting up my archives, and then I could just pull them in.
Speaker: No, sorry, Wind of Death is the wrong card.
Speaker: I think it was Boo would just kind of get a whole load of creatures into my discard pile.
Speaker: Bam.
Speaker: Clear the board.
Speaker: Get some fight effects, especially if you've got those fight effects that pull off as well.
Speaker: It's just so much fun.
Speaker: Really like it.
Speaker: Love the flavor.
Speaker: What's the rarity of that card?
Speaker: I don't think I would say.
Speaker: It's a rare.
Speaker: It's a rare.
Speaker: Yeah, okay.
Speaker: Yeah, I've only got it in one of my decks, yeah.
Speaker: My other one is a, if I can go for another one before we move on, is Cauldron from Untamed.
Speaker: It's an artifact.
Speaker: It's Omni, put the top card of your deck, face it under Cauldron.
Speaker: If there are three cards under Cauldron, play them one at a time as if they're in your hand.
Speaker: And this is just great.
Speaker: As if being able to bring certain cards back from the discard pile more often, archiving them,
Speaker: It wasn't enough.
Speaker: Now you have an artifact where you can just save up.
Speaker: It's like a little sideboard.
Speaker: And you choose when you play them.
Speaker: Like Replay Bob was great because you could, it's like another archive you had there.
Speaker: But now, like, they're face up.
Speaker: You know what they are.
Speaker: And then you can just choose when you need them, when you play them and strategize around them.
Speaker: Such a good design, really like it.
Speaker: I like it just for the card advantage.
Speaker: It's like an Omni, right?
Speaker: And you can remove a card from your hand every turn.
Speaker: That's on its own.
Speaker: Two cold ones, even if you never do the third one, because the third one is a forced play.
Speaker: Like when you add to the third one, it always plays them.
Speaker: But just removing a card from your hand every turn is really good.
Speaker: It's really good.
Speaker: Oh, it's not from your hand.
Speaker: It's from the top of your deck.
Speaker: Oh, it's from the top of your deck, right.
Speaker: That makes it.
Speaker: Okay, then I got it.
Speaker: It's a bit worse, but still.
Speaker: It is a way like if you put bad cards there, then you don't play them.
Speaker: Then you get a slimmer deck, but it does move away a little bit from the haunted.
Speaker: You really notice it when you have a deck with two quadruims.
Speaker: Then it starts becoming crazy.
Speaker: I was very close to putting that on my list as well actually.
Speaker: I do like Cawdron and I like the question it asks for you because as you said it puts you away from Haunted so it's not always a play in the deck I have it with but it's a good decision point.
Speaker: So my favorite cards just in general, we're not in design space yet but I have two.
Speaker: One of them is actually a token.
Speaker: I really love fish, man.
Speaker: Fish token.
Speaker: I just love them, the little fellas.
Speaker: I love all the sneaky tricks you can do because it makes me count the math.
Speaker: Like, okay, if I fight with this fish here, it will do damage to that one.
Speaker: Then I fight this one, it will kill that one.
Speaker: They are one of the tokens that for me has the most choice in what you will do with them.
Speaker: It's not like reap until they die or reap until they die and draw a card.
Speaker: All the other tokens essentially have one best use.
Speaker: Fish, they're versatile, they're charming, they're intelligent.
Speaker: No, wait, okay.
Speaker: They look really goofy.
Speaker: Yes, it's a great thing.
Speaker: I love fish.
Speaker: And they explode and especially
Speaker: If you can combine them with lots of Legionnaire Trainers, which one of my best decks has having fish just come in on mass and then suicide against the enemy.
Speaker: It's just, it's good.
Speaker: Uh, and there.
Speaker: So that's why that deck is getting better and better and better.
Speaker: I've got a fish deck with Legionnaire Trainer in and I never played it before.
Speaker: And it's just getting, it's gone from a 75 to an 82 in the last two months.
Speaker: They're taking the world by storm.
Speaker: And Fish is actually tied to the other favorite card of mine.
Speaker: And this one might be a little bit controversial, but I really love Briar's Arch.
Speaker: I think Briar's Arch is one of the most unique and interesting cards in the game.
Speaker: It completely changes how you play.
Speaker: It completely changes what cards are great counters.
Speaker: Suddenly, Tuxel Beam Buckler becomes one of the most valuable cards in your deck.
Speaker: Ready and fight effects become amazing.
Speaker: And so many of the busted events that exist become non-functional.
Speaker: And a deck that I thought it would just be busted from the start when I saw it.
Speaker: And it really isn't.
Speaker: Most of the Brios Arch decks, you play it, it gets removed fairly quickly.
Speaker: But the decks that can build around it, and that means I don't think it's very overpowered, but it can be.
Speaker: And the decks that build around it are beautiful constructions of control.
Speaker: where you often have to wait for the certain taunt, you have to have ways to make sure that they have lots of small things you have, and you have to be able to spam creatures or more tokens to pad your board while also reaping and gaining Ember somehow.
Speaker: So I have a funny anecdote with that card.
Speaker: My first Woe deck had that card.
Speaker: And I played a game on TCO where I got it out early and I kept it in play for like 10 turns.
Speaker: And I felt really good.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: He kept killing all my other creatures, right?
Speaker: So I still lost the game.
Speaker: But I still had a lot of fun because I was just trying to keep the Briar's Ark alive for as long as possible and I didn't really care that I lost.
Speaker: I actually think Briar's Ark is poor design.
Speaker: I think it's too over-tuned power-wise.
Speaker: I think it would have been better designed to have it lower power.
Speaker: Otherwise, I think it's a really good effect for the game.
Speaker: But I think it should have lower power, like, given how it... Maybe it's because my decks that I played,
Speaker: just lose instantly to it because I don't build board and they are just action based.
Speaker: So maybe I need to find new decks.
Speaker: Maybe that is one of the reasons why I like it because many of the decks that used to dominate completely were these like, oh, just pips and action cards.
Speaker: That's all you need.
Speaker: And suddenly... Yeah, but I still think like six powers is too much.
Speaker: Like you could have had it at maybe four power.
Speaker: Carl, do you even lift, bro?
Speaker: You need stronger creatures.
Speaker: Six is an interesting breakpoint, though, because in a set with Halifest, where the Halifest, the Brecon guys have five power.
Speaker: So many Brobnard creatures have five power.
Speaker: And your Halifest doesn't do anything.
Speaker: Take that, Halifest.
Speaker: Yeah, like, it's something that Halifest can't immediately get rid of.
Speaker: I mean, you have Valka that fights a neighbor and then one more fight and it's gone.
Speaker: I mean, whatever.
Speaker: But it's not as easy.
Speaker: It's not like you still got to hit it again.
Speaker: You know, it's yeah.
Speaker: I felt like 5 was the breakpoint.
Speaker: I think also 6 is a great number.
Speaker: It can't die to... because this effect doesn't turn off damage pips, so I like that this is kind of immune to damage pips.
Speaker: And I also like that it gives poison.
Speaker: They added quite a lot of poison in that set, and it kind of feels a bit useless a lot of the time, so I like that they added a nice...
Speaker: a nice use case for poison for yeah yeah but if you want that effect then I would still prefer it but like three power and one armor then or something if you want it to be immune versus the damage let's say three power and three armor and and I would have been I mean just a question about your the angle of your opinion here do you have you own a Briar's Out deck yourself
Speaker: I own lots of Briar's Ark decks.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I don't own, I think, a Briar's Ark deck that is good, but I do own Briar's Ark decks.
Speaker: That is why I actually appreciate it, because I thought first that it was overpowered, but the things my deck has to do and how slow it gets in Ember Gain because the board keeps dying and so on really has made me appreciate it a lot more.
Speaker: Because I think I have like six or seven Briar's Arch decks and I thought many of them were good.
Speaker: And I realized that Briar's Arch just sometimes it even makes their action cards better because they just removed some valuable creatures for nothing instead of what those action cards would normally do.
Speaker: I only have one deck that's actually good.
Speaker: I'm not disputing that you will have like a lot of bad Briar's Arch decks.
Speaker: It's not a card that will make or break a deck in itself.
Speaker: But it will create some decks that are super good.
Speaker: and that will be impossible to beat for some decks.
Speaker: Yeah, for some decks.
Speaker: Yeah, and I don't really like cards that just shuts off the opponent's decks completely.
Speaker: I like more...
Speaker: cards that maybe makes the opponent's deck worse, but still allows them to play the game.
Speaker: I don't know, like, the kind of creature spam you would have to do in order to shut down an action-based deck completely, because those action-based decks often have, like, four action cards per turn and so on.
Speaker: It's really hard to keep up that kind of creature spam, even with tokens.
Speaker: I know, because my deck has 21 creatures, and all the other cards basically make tokens, and I can still get, like, if I keep playing creatures, I don't make any Ember.
Speaker: Because I get that.
Speaker: Yeah, but I've played games versus private architects that can do that and it's not fun.
Speaker: Like, so those decks do exist.
Speaker: You get one belligerent guard and you're fine.
Speaker: He just comes in and he goes like... Yeah, if only that was in quota.
Speaker: That's why you're upset.
Speaker: Was this a bad experience you had in America?
Speaker: No, I didn't face it there.
Speaker: All right, we need to move on.
Speaker: Like I said, I did feel the same about Genka until I got one to say.
Speaker: Yeah, but I think it's more like cards that I do like as contrast to this is Psionic Officer Lang, Candle Unit, things that actually makes you benefit from the opponent's preferred way of playing, but it still asks questions of the opponent and they can
Speaker: they are forced to deal with it or just do their usual stuff and you get benefit from it.
Speaker: I think... Right, we're muting Carl, we have 45 minutes.
Speaker: But I think it needs to be lower power.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: Okay, thank you Carl for your opinion.
Speaker: Dissenting opinion from Carl.
Speaker: Now we're moving on to what Carl tried to discuss there, which is card design.
Speaker: Cards that we, no matter what we think about them, are good for the game or elegantly designed or just contribute something to the game that really changed the game for the better.
Speaker: And we will do the same order.
Speaker: Like the opposite of Briar's Ark.
Speaker: Yeah, for example, in your narrow worldview, the opposite of Briar's Ark.
Speaker: Carl.
Speaker: No, not Carl.
Speaker: He talked to me about the video.
Speaker: Hydro.
Speaker: You go first again.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So one card that I think is really good for the game and very well designed is Infernus.
Speaker: I actually don't know.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: And yeah, I mean, I did include it to be a bit provocative, but I think it's kind of true.
Speaker: Like it's
Speaker: It really changed up the meta when it arrived.
Speaker: It really countered these pip decks that I play myself and a lot of people play or used to play.
Speaker: It's a fun decision point.
Speaker: What should you always go for your opponent's pips or should you go for their board control?
Speaker: Like I have one Infernus deck that really needs to go for their board control a lot of the time rather than the pips.
Speaker: And also now that Grim Reminders is coming in and doing such busted things with the discard pile, I think it's a really important tool to deal with that.
Speaker: And I also like that, unlike some other cards,
Speaker: Most of the time your opponent still gets to play their card at least once.
Speaker: It's not like you're completely removed from the deck.
Speaker: You're removed from the deck after it has been seen.
Speaker: So it's to me less tilting to have my opponent purge a card I liked after I played it once compared to
Speaker: purging it from my hand with Inspector or discarding it from my hand with Abyssal Sight or something like that.
Speaker: So yeah, A plus card, perfect design.
Speaker: All right, cool.
Speaker: And Jason?
Speaker: OK, I'll save this discussion for later.
Speaker: I do have one card that I do want to discuss about card design, but we can save that discussion for later.
Speaker: One of the cards that I do want to say now is from Grim Reminders.
Speaker: I've got a lot of focus on there.
Speaker: It is Brobnar, and it's Memorialize the Fallen.
Speaker: Action.
Speaker: Each player loses ember equal to the number of creatures in their discard pile.
Speaker: Flavor text.
Speaker: The vow has been honored.
Speaker: Yeah, this is beautiful.
Speaker: I just love this, like,
Speaker: first of all it's like you know scaling ember control in um grovnar again after bantam life um but this is just like even more um it can really turn games i was playing a um a solo game on on stream and my name deck was just about to destroy um uh a my awakening's deck with the revenant in and then suddenly memorials of fallen comes out and
Speaker: my name deck is struggling big time because it just lost, oh, like 11 Ember before the game.
Speaker: And it's just such a, especially decks that have to fight to gain the Ember.
Speaker: And it can tell a game, this card, especially like playing with a discard.
Speaker: So much in this card, you want stuff in the discard.
Speaker: then you've got the more as the fallen to balance that card.
Speaker: So I think this is great, great scaling and control.
Speaker: Really love it.
Speaker: So I haven't played with that card, but I have a concern that it can like make games last forever.
Speaker: But has that been your experience?
Speaker: It made a game that the game I played on stream should have been about half an hour and it ended up being about 50 minutes because
Speaker: I have to start again.
Speaker: If you can archive it well enough, which many decks can, then you can play it many times.
Speaker: Can you have multiples of this card?
Speaker: It's common, but it doesn't have a limit.
Speaker: I believe so.
Speaker: You can have multiple.
Speaker: I think I have a two, but I will check right now.
Speaker: I've got two decks with it in and there's only a single one in there.
Speaker: So I can't answer that.
Speaker: I can only find, I cannot find any decks with two.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So that makes me like it more.
Speaker: I mean, it's still the concern with all the recursion, but yeah.
Speaker: But with one, I think it's fine with probably with one in most things.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I have two cards that I think are great to sign and really good for the game.
Speaker: They are Spectral Ruth and Winds of Death.
Speaker: No, just kidding.
Speaker: Winds of Death was actually one of my light cards that I didn't mention before.
Speaker: No, these cards need to die in a fire, burn them, especially Ruth.
Speaker: No, Winds of Death is fantastic.
Speaker: I love Winds of Death.
Speaker: Like, it's such an important point of decision point with Winds of Death.
Speaker: And it can mess up other combos that you might have, other cards you might want to do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's one of these over-tuned cards that we spoke of.
Speaker: It's not rare, but unfortunately... I mean, Ruth is completely... I think we can all agree that Ruth is completely busted.
Speaker: Like, that's just... Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Ruth is the single worst designed card in Keyforge.
Speaker: Like, a one-sided effect.
Speaker: The only criteria is in a set that can archive everything, and the only criteria you need to have is to have already done something good, which is forge a key.
Speaker: And it archives your entire discard pile, creatures, action cards, everything.
Speaker: It's such a poor design that I thought it was a mistake when we first saw it.
Speaker: I'm like, no way.
Speaker: This just has to be a mess up somewhere.
Speaker: The best thing about it is it's so rare that I haven't seen it.
Speaker: I haven't played it or I haven't played against it.
Speaker: But eventually I will and I won't like it.
Speaker: They go like, you should change Ecto-charge to make it better.
Speaker: But they don't change.
Speaker: Rules be worse.
Speaker: Haha.
Speaker: I want us to talk about Exercharge before the end of the episode.
Speaker: We won't have time.
Speaker: Maybe we'll have time.
Speaker: But cards I actually think are good for the game.
Speaker: I think Ethan's Jar is a great card.
Speaker: I think Ethan's Jar did wonderful things for the game because it was the first card that really could shut down these infinite combos and
Speaker: Just I win combinations and so on.
Speaker: And it's very hard to get a good deck with it, but having it as a real tool and it isn't a card that actually gives you advantage.
Speaker: You have to know what to target and it's a card where you have to know what of the opponent's cards is worst for your deck.
Speaker: So it always involves an interesting choice.
Speaker: You always need to decide, if they have any artifact control, do I block that just to remove a card from it?
Speaker: Or do I take the gamble and that my card will have done its effect by the time they can remove it?
Speaker: I think it's really good.
Speaker: And it also punishes people that have those quadruples and quintuples of really good busted cards.
Speaker: And that's another risk they have to consider.
Speaker: So I think Ethan's Yara was a well-designed card and enabled a control archetype that didn't exist before.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't like that card.
Speaker: I think it's the thing I like about Inferno is that you can at least use your card once.
Speaker: I feel like Ethan's Yara is much more feel bad.
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, I don't hate it, but I don't think it's very good design.
Speaker: As me, as someone who thinks that control is an almost necessary thing in these games, and control needs to be very limited, but it almost needs to exist in order for this game to not simply be rushes to the finish.
Speaker: You need to have decks that say, oh, you brought a deck that only had all the good cards in a very simple game plan.
Speaker: Well, my deck can stop that.
Speaker: So I can kind of buy that.
Speaker: It's not a card I like to play against, but it's a card that maybe is good that it exists in the meadow.
Speaker: Yeah, and that is why I have it here.
Speaker: I don't love the card itself, but I think it added something very valuable to the game.
Speaker: And it was opening up an archetype that didn't really exist from a game that was already dominated by very proactive.
Speaker: And as we have said many times in Key Forge, proactive cards will almost always win.
Speaker: If you force your opponent to react to what you do, you're almost always winning.
Speaker: Reactive cards need to wait for their moment and then you play them.
Speaker: Ita's Yarr is one of the few proactive control cards that exist that you use before something is done rather than, as you said, after it has already done the damage.
Speaker: And I think that opened a really interesting thing.
Speaker: It really made a non-proactive gameplay be possible.
Speaker: So that's why I think it was brilliantly designed.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: All right, Karl, finally.
Speaker: Am I allowed to speak again after this Briar's Orchid battle?
Speaker: Okay, good.
Speaker: After the Briar's Orchid drama of 2024, you're allowed to speak.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I'm going to put forth a card that I can't pronounce.
Speaker: You may guess then what house it is from.
Speaker: But it's the Isfus No Drone.
Speaker: Okay, the last part is... And this card has one big fault and some good things.
Speaker: So it's a three power, one armor creature with a play effect.
Speaker: Archive a card.
Speaker: You may purge an archived card to stun the creature.
Speaker: And it's one of the few well-designed archived hate cards that we have in this game.
Speaker: The question is if it's well designed or an accident.
Speaker: Yeah, probably an accident.
Speaker: The bad thing about it is that it's rare.
Speaker: It would have been better at uncommon, I think.
Speaker: But yeah, the fact that you can just randomly purge a card from an opponent's archive means it does a lot of damage to some archetypes that have been very strong, like archiving a Genkadex, for example, combo decks.
Speaker: that relies on archiving key pieces.
Speaker: So I would like to see more of that.
Speaker: I'm not saying Node-Rone has changed the meta or anything, because it really hasn't, but it's a design avenue I think the game needs to go more into.
Speaker: Yes, and the archive.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But I really think it was unintentional.
Speaker: I really think they didn't intend for you to be able to.
Speaker: Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker: But I like Desenia.
Speaker: I think it's too powerful.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: So I like it to be more, this is the power level I think would be good for Archive 8.
Speaker: I mean, Dysenia would have been great if it didn't give Ember.
Speaker: Like if it just discarded all their, then it would still have been a strong card.
Speaker: But the fact that it also wins you the game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And this is quite like, it's versatile.
Speaker: So Archive 8 card, that's a good effect in itself.
Speaker: And then it's a may.
Speaker: You may purge an Archive 8.
Speaker: I think it's a really nice design.
Speaker: Probably, as you said, Hydro, it's an error on their part.
Speaker: It wasn't supposed to affect the opponent's archive.
Speaker: But the fact that it does is really good.
Speaker: About Dysenia, just a moment here.
Speaker: I think that one of the good things that it actually gets you Ember is because it makes that, is it worth archiving at all?
Speaker: Like it actually, because if it only discarded your cards, there's no loss in archiving.
Speaker: You should still just, because this at least purges, but if Dysenia only discarded, then you would still archive as much as you could.
Speaker: And then just maybe different cards.
Speaker: And then just they would have to use the Usainia just playing.
Speaker: I like cards that force you to say, hmm, how bad is it if they get this Ember?
Speaker: Or like the mass buyout.
Speaker: Like, how bad is it that I give them this Ember?
Speaker: And I love that part of the game.
Speaker: The decision points that make it an advanced and interesting game.
Speaker: It's always a nice, interesting game when, like...
Speaker: Yeah, it doesn't matter which side you're on, if you're the Dushenia player or the archiving player.
Speaker: But it's a nice back and forth, do I play this now?
Speaker: Do I hold this card?
Speaker: How crucial is Dushenia in this matchup?
Speaker: Is it worth for me to shame myself holding it for the right moment?
Speaker: Or isn't it?
Speaker: Depending.
Speaker: So I think it always creates interesting games.
Speaker: But it's a bit too overtuned.
Speaker: Trivia time.
Speaker: You all know what Dushenia means.
Speaker: Some kind of memory loss, possibly.
Speaker: It means problems with inability or difficulties with getting up from bed in the morning.
Speaker: So I can kind of feel targeted by this card.
Speaker: Well, I think that we will have to save our hate cards for next time because we're running on an hour and that means you might get an episode soon again from us.
Speaker: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: Can I ask one question as a follow up that we could possibly do with the next few episodes?
Speaker: I really want to have the EctoCharge conversation because there's a lot of hate on EctoCharge.
Speaker: I had a Woe deck with the Unchanged, the first version of EctoCharge, and I had a friend nearly rage quit on me and walk out.
Speaker: Yeah, but that's because you played it as...
Speaker: I played it as if it was this card.
Speaker: Yes, I know.
Speaker: Now the card has actually changed to the version I thought it was.
Speaker: And it's powerful.
Speaker: Like I said, I've got seven of 14 decks with this in.
Speaker: It's very common.
Speaker: But I heard an interesting comment last night.
Speaker: Someone said they think it's necessary for the game.
Speaker: And going with some of the conversations that we've had tonight where Infernus deals with encounters,
Speaker: problems it's not it counters something etc etc like i want to hear why people is there anyone out there that why is it good for the game how can ecto charge be good i want to hear that from from listeners before we have this discussion okay
Speaker: Yeah, from the listeners, that's why we'll end on this now.
Speaker: But I want to hear from people listening, how can it be good?
Speaker: Play Devil's Advocate, give your actual opinion of Jastikud, but could ExoCharge be a good card, be good for the game?
Speaker: Just as a hint to the listeners, Hydra's been shaking his head the entire time when Jason has been talking about it.
Speaker: I thought he had a slide around him.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm an open book.
Speaker: I'm not good at hiding my feelings.
Speaker: But I generally think we should have more cards in the game that with a simple two card combo just gives you free keys.
Speaker: I think that's a design space that hasn't been explored enough by GG.
Speaker: You could have, for example, if you have this card and this other card in your hand, when you start the game, you get two keys because they have one key, but why not two keys?
Speaker: I think we should just have a card that says play win the game.
Speaker: That would be a new twist that hasn't been explored before.
Speaker: It needs to be a two card combo.
Speaker: Hello, you can't just draw a card.
Speaker: It needs to be another card.
Speaker: One card called you and the one called win.
Speaker: If you have them both in your hand, you win.
Speaker: I mean, yes, GG.
Speaker: Pay us licensing fees for these great ideas.
Speaker: Our listeners, don't be afraid for sending in your great arguments for why Ektasharge is needed for the game.
Speaker: I want to hear it.
Speaker: We all love to be devil's advocate on this pod, so I won't begrudge anyone.
Speaker: I'm not going to say who I heard it from unless they're listening and they want to kind of come forward.
Speaker: But it's actually got a very respected part of the member of the community that mentioned this to me and in the conversation.
Speaker: So, yeah, I'm interested to see can people argue for EctoCharge?
Speaker: I mean if we want 5 minute games that one person wins on a coin flip then I can argue for Ektosharge then it's like really great card.
Speaker: It's all about design vision.
Speaker: And I also think we need more cards that have like the same art, the same name but different effects in different sets.
Speaker: I think that's also very nice and new player friendly.
Speaker: In general, I think we should have more cards that get better because one of the designers just decided that their card wasn't good enough and you just change it for the next set.
Speaker: I think that's also a design space that hasn't been explored enough.
Speaker: What it does teach us is that we need to read the card, right?
Speaker: Because if you don't read the text, you actually
Speaker: You might play it wrong.
Speaker: Okay, is there any point even doing that extra charge episode if we've just given our opinions now?
Speaker: For me, all of you, and we will stop the recording now.
Speaker: I think I've been very subtle.
Speaker: As subtle as current 4 extra charge 3 win.
Speaker: Or 3 key, at least.
Speaker: Thank you, everyone.
Speaker: Sign up for NKFL season 23.
Speaker: It starts in March.
Speaker: It's going to be fantastic.
Speaker: It's going to be extra charges.
Speaker: Hopefully only one per lineup.
Speaker: I was going to say everywhere, but it will be spooky charges.
Speaker: Mike makes right and all the other key sheets and Briar's arches and all of them.
Speaker: And you will have the pleasure of maybe playing with one of us at some point.
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening to the Nordic Keyboard podcast.
Speaker: My name is Aramis and I was the
Speaker: I had the pleasure of hosting these gentlemen today.
Speaker: With me, I had Hydrophilic Attack, The Captain, and Algen Orgero.
Speaker: Bye, everyone.
Speaker: Stay hydrated.
Speaker: You son of a...
