Transcript
Speaker: One, two, one, two.
Speaker: Is the mic working, guys?
Speaker: No, I'm not sure.
Speaker: Not sure.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We'll test it as your albums.
Speaker: Try the other one.
Speaker: That's what we did last time.
Speaker: Try the other one.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Let's go.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Nordic Key Forge podcast.
Speaker: My name is Jason, the captain Kirk, and I am here today with, uh, Jonas hydrophilic attack.
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: I am here with Algonon, the beekeeper.
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: And I'm also, we also have Simon who is lurking around here.
Speaker: So he'll come and say hi.
Speaker: later on as well but you know we're we're recording late and he's eating his food late so there we go um cool awesome so it's been a couple of weeks since our last episode um
Speaker: We've probably played a lot of Keyforge, a lot of Dream Reminders, now that it's been on TCO dev channel, now it's out on TCO.
Speaker: SAS scores have been released.
Speaker: Not that SAS means everything, but it's been quite exciting to see, actually, that it is a little bit more powerful.
Speaker: And we have also...
Speaker: got... I mean, the biggest thing that's happened the last two weeks has been the conversation, though, in the Discussed Podcast channel, surely.
Speaker: About EctoCharge.
Speaker: About EctoCharge, exactly, yeah.
Speaker: So we're going to get onto that in a little bit, because the topic for today, we had a few things planned.
Speaker: We are going to be interviewing Riku at some point, who was the...
Speaker: champion of season 22 for the NKFL but once we kind of actually finally find a time between now and you know between our time here the Vietnam time zone as well when it actually works we'll get that happening
Speaker: I hope he just doesn't get sick of us trying to get our shit together.
Speaker: Yeah, I know, right, yeah.
Speaker: Because that would be understandable.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: We need to get ourselves sorted.
Speaker: But that's just how it is.
Speaker: Now, what we can talk about, though, is how's your Fortnite?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, how's the last two weeks for you guys?
Speaker: I can start.
Speaker: My last two weeks have been...
Speaker: Much about testing out the green reminder stacks and that has been fun.
Speaker: And also I've been playing in ABR.
Speaker: We have the last week before the playoffs in ABR.
Speaker: I'm three wins, three losses so far.
Speaker: And I hope to squeeze out a win to get my team into the playoffs.
Speaker: It looks like it's really close.
Speaker: So we'll see.
Speaker: But that has been fun.
Speaker: And then also been playing in the NKFL World Cup.
Speaker: We had the quarter finals in that versus South Korea.
Speaker: But my teammates, Cy Sox and the Banan Per Mobile, they won their games.
Speaker: So my match is probably not going to happen because it's tricky to schedule.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: You got the win.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I got the loss, I guess, but we got the win in the match, which is what counts.
Speaker: And also me and speaking about Riku, me and Riku have been starting a new league, a team league.
Speaker: I've been working on the league document there.
Speaker: It's totally original.
Speaker: Nothing even close to the NKFL document or anything.
Speaker: Every league needs a document.
Speaker: I think we know that by now.
Speaker: Can you tell us a little bit about that league, the format of the league?
Speaker: Yeah, so it's a team league with three players in each team.
Speaker: And you have set roles.
Speaker: So you pick one person in the team to play adaptive best of three.
Speaker: one player plays Arkham best of three and then you have one player playing triad and you also like you have the set roles and you also have the set decks so you sign up with what deck you want to play throughout the whole tournament and we have four groups of six teams and then the top two in each group goes to a playoff but I think yeah it's nice to play those formats I think and I
Speaker: It's going to be interesting to see what the feedback is.
Speaker: But I think it could be interesting to have the set decks, knowing the match up.
Speaker: People who want to prepare can prepare as much as they want.
Speaker: And it's a nice change to pretty much every other format, which is more uncertainty before the match, I guess.
Speaker: So yeah, it should be fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know it's about your first game.
Speaker: Yeah, we have to play, Jason.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Of all the people that I could be playing Adaptive with first in the first round for this is like, you know, one of the kings of Adaptive.
Speaker: I totally didn't rig it, you know.
Speaker: No, of course not.
Speaker: It was very, very random behind closed doors.
Speaker: This is very good for content.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, it's kind of, I mean, you know, one of us, one of us, you know, it's a fight to the death, really.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: The winner stays on the podcast, the loser is kicked out.
Speaker: Yeah, basically.
Speaker: I mean, Jason does all of the work, so that would be a problem.
Speaker: He will likely win.
Speaker: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker: You say I'm going to lose.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Have you already written me off this game?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've already done all the grieving.
Speaker: What deck are you bringing, Algernon?
Speaker: What's your deck?
Speaker: I'm bringing Lightio, my Wills Collide deck.
Speaker: But I saw you brought Captain of Trouble and Tragedy.
Speaker: Indeed, I have.
Speaker: Which is a name that I don't really... That is a Dark Tidings deck, right?
Speaker: It is a Dark Tidings deck.
Speaker: And Dark Tidings is great for... I think Dark Tidings is great for Adaptive.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It is really, really good for Adaptive.
Speaker: I nearly went with Harless, which is my triple E-Di deck.
Speaker: Because that's been my Adaptive deck in the past.
Speaker: But it just doesn't... It's been good against Grim and Minders.
Speaker: Yeah, only one Tide Racer in the Captain.
Speaker: It does, but you don't really need it.
Speaker: Yeah, good.
Speaker: Now I know that.
Speaker: Man, what have you done to me?
Speaker: You've just brought the... Bringing the information out of here.
Speaker: You really need the Tide in that deck, so you have to use that Tide card precisely when... Anyway, yeah.
Speaker: That has been my Forge Knight.
Speaker: I'm just taking notes now.
Speaker: You can talk about yours.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, Jonas, what about you?
Speaker: How's your force?
Speaker: Have you been enjoying your grim reminders?
Speaker: Yeah, I haven't been playing much, actually.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I haven't really felt like playing random games.
Speaker: We were supposed to play live this weekend, but I got a bit sick, so I didn't want to infect my friend Nikiva.
Speaker: So we played instead of some games on TCO.
Speaker: And also, Algen Honor joined for one game as well.
Speaker: And that was kind of fun.
Speaker: I played some of my Groom Reminders decks for the first time.
Speaker: Like, I think my Beanstalk deck might be all right.
Speaker: Not great, but all right.
Speaker: I think my name deck, which is lower sus than many of my other decks, but I think that one might be quite all right if I manage to get the big hypnotic command off, which I did a couple of times against Algernoner at least.
Speaker: Yeah, only because I didn't look at the deck list.
Speaker: Aha, okay.
Speaker: In that case, because I don't really have any other key controls, so in that case, that's the only reason you lost.
Speaker: I mean, it suddenly flipped the tide.
Speaker: You're not blaming the deck, are you, Jonas?
Speaker: No, the deck is fun.
Speaker: I don't know if it's competitive, but it's fun.
Speaker: Yeah, it looked really nice.
Speaker: um it has a lot of uh i mean the mars guys they kind of need to survive i have a lot of the doctors but not so i only do i have one mars first but but if i if i uh if i manage to make one of the doctor stick i can make a lot of fun turns in mars basically with the doctor calling in another doctor which calls in uh the guy who archives the card from your discard pile or something like that so yeah
Speaker: Yeah, I just think that deck in particular that I played didn't have to have any creatures on board.
Speaker: So it was very possible for my deck to play zero creatures in that particular matchup.
Speaker: But I think your deck could be very good.
Speaker: Not all decks can actually do that.
Speaker: and put creatures out and that threat of like, I'm not sure, was it 10 or nine Mars creatures or eight maybe?
Speaker: It was a lot of them.
Speaker: Yeah, seven or eight, I think.
Speaker: Eight maybe.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, that is good.
Speaker: It's my first deck with Hypnotic Command, so that's fun.
Speaker: But yeah, so that's basically all I've played.
Speaker: I don't think any of my Grim Reminders decks really have the deuce to be a competitive deck, so I'm not really hard testing them in time for the next League season or something like that.
Speaker: So I'm just enjoying the break right now, not playing that much.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Taking a cool playing a little bit here and there.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What about you, Captain?
Speaker: Yeah, I haven't been playing a huge amount of Keyforge, but I've been kind of enjoying that because I probably felt I was on the verge of Keyforge Burnout in some way, just trying to fit in so many games.
Speaker: But I have been playing a lot of the Grimminers decks that I have and enjoying playing in real life.
Speaker: Enjoying Geistoid a lot, I think.
Speaker: I think I was very fortunate with some of the...
Speaker: the pulls that I had, which can talk in a little bit because I did out of 14 decks, I did pull, I have a 50% pull rate with Ecto Charge, which is quite interesting.
Speaker: If Ecto Charge does get restricted for the next season, then I have a lot less competitive decks to play with, which would be a huge shame.
Speaker: But I've been just really enjoying the extra element of the game that you have with doing stuff with your discard pile and planning when you're archiving or when you're discarding stuff.
Speaker: Can you bring it back?
Speaker: Planning around those times to actually learning about the deck.
Speaker: I've been more and more interested in this set.
Speaker: So I've been very much enjoying it.
Speaker: testing out some Riverminders.
Speaker: And again, same as you just said, Mars is a lot of fun with this set.
Speaker: Nameless Horror, I've got a really nice one with both Memrocks of the Red, Nameless Horrors, which just when they're out on the board,
Speaker: Poison, Skirmish.
Speaker: I like Poison, and then when you're Haunted, Elusive and Skirmish as well, so they just stick around and you can just do quite a lot of damage with them.
Speaker: For a two-power creature, they're pretty fun.
Speaker: And just the importance of going, okay, I need to be Haunted.
Speaker: There aren't many decks where you get the
Speaker: I don't know if you guys have had decks that have had a less importance of... Well, actually, the deck is maybe better when you're not haunted.
Speaker: It feels like most of mine, you have to be haunted.
Speaker: I think I have one deck with a quid on and a bunch of steel that doesn't really care about being home.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But not about being cool, but actually where you're actually better off than not being haunted.
Speaker: No, that's not the case.
Speaker: I mean, it would be my dark Heart of the Forest deck, I guess.
Speaker: But other than that, I don't think so.
Speaker: So that's been a lot of fun, yeah.
Speaker: I agree with you about Equidon.
Speaker: I feel like of all the decks I've played that I have,
Speaker: Basically, if they don't have Equidon, they are usually... No, not Equidon.
Speaker: Geistoid, sorry.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: If you don't have Geistoid, you tend to be just really slow, and you really need to high roll those other houses and have them really stacked to have a good deck.
Speaker: So the Geistoids are really key to get that efficiency.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The question is, are they too strong...
Speaker: I've seen some busted stuff, but if you're not at that level, if you're a bit below that level, they are very fun.
Speaker: The average level is kind of good, but I think the tail end of the distribution is a bit much.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So that's basically been the last few weeks.
Speaker: I've signed up for the team league because I think it's ridiculously fun and we're bringing back Val's Rebel Scum, myself, Murph and Dave C from the last...
Speaker: The last two Swindle team events, we had that team.
Speaker: So that team is back, which means I have Caruso on my team.
Speaker: But although I didn't actually go for that deck, I was so close to asking Dave if I could play his Caruso deck.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: You wanted Caruso in adaptive?
Speaker: I was going to go Archon.
Speaker: We had a last minute switch on.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, but that's mine.
Speaker: And then I've got Percalee Cup, which I'm trying to nail down my game with Lord Alatar.
Speaker: But yeah, that's just life.
Speaker: Work is taking a lot of time for me.
Speaker: But that is for another podcast.
Speaker: If anyone ever wants to listen to a podcast about me complaining about work, let me know and I'll make it happen.
Speaker: Simon.
Speaker: Workforce podcast.
Speaker: Yes, I'm here.
Speaker: Hello, everyone.
Speaker: Simon is here.
Speaker: He's finished eating.
Speaker: He is back.
Speaker: Two minute nutshell.
Speaker: How was your last two weeks?
Speaker: Your fourth night?
Speaker: You thought you'd miss it out, but no.
Speaker: Yeah, it's been a lot of Grim Reminders, and I've played a lot of Helena.
Speaker: It's been so fun.
Speaker: Is she good again?
Speaker: She is good again, as long as I can dodge Worlds or Winds of Exchange matchups.
Speaker: There's nothing better.
Speaker: Or I've had a few better things the last year, really, of Keyforge than going into a game, seeing Grim Reminders there, and going like, oh...
Speaker: So you want to have all your key cards purged because you will put them in the discard for me.
Speaker: Ah, excellent.
Speaker: And just the general like, eat us, you are three different card of purges, cards that punish them for wiping the board.
Speaker: All my, they either have to like kill my daughters when I play them.
Speaker: For those few of you that don't know, Helena has four daughters.
Speaker: And if I play a couple of them and they don't kill them immediately,
Speaker: then of course I draw like 10 cards per turn.
Speaker: But if they kill them immediately, they can't use winds of death basically because the amount of stuff that I just put back on the board is just like more efficient than most other things.
Speaker: And since it has the more or less unlimited Ember control once I get their C cards purged,
Speaker: It's just a lot of fun.
Speaker: The big threats are BR Geist, though, because they can bring back my Infernus and purge my key card with it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I've ended up actually using Ita's Jar on BR Geist several times.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: BR Geist is a very good card.
Speaker: I don't know if I think it's that good, but it's because I've only played one game with it and I had bad luck maybe.
Speaker: It is a good card, especially when you can take their Inferno with it.
Speaker: But against Helena, who only has these few key cards that I need to recycle over and over to do the lock, and against that it's very good.
Speaker: Apart from that, I've had actually a lot of fun and a lot of rage.
Speaker: Some days I hate the set, some days I think it's great.
Speaker: Most days I think it's fun for now.
Speaker: But once again, I just see the shadow of the potential competitive deck looming on the horizon.
Speaker: And I go, if I have already opened at least one deck that is just not fun for the opponent, then what stuff is there out there?
Speaker: Like my name deck is so busted.
Speaker: I can play so many market fluctuations where I draw six cards and they discard six cards.
Speaker: because it has ways to push them above their haunted and back into non-haunted again.
Speaker: So it means they discard their entire hand.
Speaker: But I get to draw six cards.
Speaker: And playing with a zero card hand is only so much fun.
Speaker: Is it fun at all?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And then with some luck, I can even archive.
Speaker: If I have a single memet on hand, and since the deck has three, that happens quite often, I can play the memet with the sandhopper, archive the first market fluctuation, and then kill the other memet, and I archive the second market fluctuation.
Speaker: Then I have them again on the next turn.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I think there were some very... That was my... Yeah.
Speaker: And I think, like, for me, and we can kind of segue into our conversation here as well, because we're going to be talking about the opposite side of the last discussion that we had with cards we like and cards we think are designed well to cards we dislike and cards that we don't think are designed well.
Speaker: Which is a lot trickier to think about.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: But I think the elephant in the room here, and the obvious big one, and we brought it up at the end of last episode, is Ectoge.
Speaker: Because...
Speaker: For me, it just feels too broken to actually be fair, to actually make Key Forge a fun game.
Speaker: And I'm going to say this, I'm going to kind of take the mic for a second here, just because... Could we introduce the segment for those who didn't watch our last episode?
Speaker: No, they can listen to the last episode.
Speaker: Yeah, of course we can.
Speaker: I was in a role here, Simon.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: Last episode, we all brought cards that we liked and cards that we thought were good designs.
Speaker: And so, yeah.
Speaker: And then at the end of the episode...
Speaker: We hinted strongly.
Speaker: We hinted strongly that we all love EctoCharge in a very sarcastic way.
Speaker: So the conversation there, so I wanted to trigger a conversation in our Discord channel about, you know, if anyone has an argument for EctoCharge,
Speaker: Please, please come forward.
Speaker: And we have done that.
Speaker: And there's some very good, interesting stuff there.
Speaker: But I do just want to kind of talk about how, like, from our initial thoughts, before we go into the four stuff, like,
Speaker: I think there's a lot of negative stuff out there about ExoCharge.
Speaker: My personal one is that I have a deck that I actually sold because, and Simon, it's exactly the same as you just said.
Speaker: It's just not fun.
Speaker: It's good, but it's just not fun.
Speaker: And I can, it's a two-turn win.
Speaker: Not a turn two win, but a two-turn win.
Speaker: The game, the first game I played with that, I really had to apologize to my opponent because I was like, he'd been pushing on and pushing on and I'd just been stopping him.
Speaker: And then I basically, we have two in here somewheres, which means I can archive key abduction very easily.
Speaker: Then I wait until I get through my deck.
Speaker: um of course in furnace and everything can can and eton's jar can can stop this uh but then i can ecto charge play winds of death to get my 17 creatures into my archives um
Speaker: If by then I've made it to check, my next turn I can then forge a key and then key abduction with my archives.
Speaker: And it just felt like, well, I didn't have to do anything.
Speaker: I didn't have to try to play.
Speaker: And I was like, I don't want new players to go up against this deck and be like, yeah, this game isn't fun.
Speaker: So I sold the deck because...
Speaker: Someone offered me good money for it and I'm like, okay, yeah, if you're going to enjoy this, then please.
Speaker: But I, I like fun games that are close because both players are having a good time.
Speaker: Um, that is my argument against it.
Speaker: Do you guys want to say anything about extra charge now?
Speaker: Because this is that time.
Speaker: I think there are just too many cards it can very easily combo with for a free key in the same house that you can play almost immediately or like Winds of Death, the card that flips your deck and discard pile, which is a turn one free key.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And there's so much recursion in the set with Nepenthes seeds and cards that archive from your discard pile.
Speaker: And it's very easy if you get one of the pieces too early, you archive it or you get it back when you need it and you pull it off.
Speaker: It seems way too consistent basically with all that recursion and efficiency.
Speaker: Yeah, too much support in sets and also the fact that they changed from a fully working balanced version with less support into a set with way more support in-house.
Speaker: It's totally unnecessary improving the card when you already improved the environment it's in.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I really do think that it kind of, it's a card that needs to be errated back to the anomaly version.
Speaker: I really think so.
Speaker: And especially with the card being a common, like I've opened a seven of 14 decks with Ecto Church and that's a lot more,
Speaker: And I mean, the guys stored houses like the SAS levels, new SAS scores out, which is far fair enough.
Speaker: But even like it has a score of seven, which is should because it's such a strong card.
Speaker: But even without that, I think most of my guys stored houses will be hitting low 30s anyway.
Speaker: with that because Geistoid is a really strong house so I don't think Geistoid even needs EctoCharge to still be the strongest house definitely not yeah so that's one thing, is anyone got anything negative to say before we try and hear what people have said to fight in EctoCharge's corner
Speaker: Let's hear the positives.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Well, we had JT Russell say that the general uptake of key cheats in Guramay's Hells pushed down the Woe, pushed down Winds of Exchange without pumping more sea into the environment, which, you know, it's stronger than Woe.
Speaker: And I think Woe was also a very strong set.
Speaker: And so it does deal with that a little bit.
Speaker: It's a type of threat that Woe is less equipped to deal with.
Speaker: But I think all sets are less equipped to deal with.
Speaker: Extra charge, like I say, like, I think
Speaker: Infernus, Etten's Jar, any other cards that can go up against Ex-Jet Charge.
Speaker: Yeah, the Infernus X, like World's Collider, has the best tools to deal with it.
Speaker: I think that was his argument, right?
Speaker: Like, there are other sets that can deal with it.
Speaker: So the fact that Woe cannot, which I'm not sure I completely agree with, because you have stuff like Bryos Arc and... Yeah, but Rares that can deal with it, I don't think we...
Speaker: Yes, but I was going to say also more cards.
Speaker: The cards that discards, you look at their hand and discard the card that says you can only play cards from this house.
Speaker: Sorry?
Speaker: But I mean, all of those ignore archiving.
Speaker: And a good deck will always have archived.
Speaker: Just look at, once again, my name deck.
Speaker: Three memets, two in here somewhere.
Speaker: There's no way it won't be in the archive.
Speaker: Ryo's Arch works against archive.
Speaker: But all of the other solutions require them to have it in hand.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, the amount of archiving, I mean, that's a good point.
Speaker: The amount of archiving, like most games I'm archiving with different Reminders decks, at least five, six cards.
Speaker: And the reason why Inferno's works, of course, is because it actually removes cards from their deck entirely.
Speaker: So in a way, it is a kind of key taxing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But there are cards in previous sets, but not many cards.
Speaker: It's not like there's anything in common to do that.
Speaker: And so maybe if we're talking like at the top of the game.
Speaker: Well, key taxing still works, but...
Speaker: Key taxing is still a good way to make it not cost zero.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Infernus is a common.
Speaker: If we're talking about that.
Speaker: Yeah, Infernus is a common and it's a good.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: But I think it is like, as we will probably hit on with many things here, one of the problems is that there are so many different Geistoid cards.
Speaker: And here I bring up sort of my
Speaker: I had difficulty choosing because many cards on their own is not a problem.
Speaker: Like, oh, this is a rare, it's pretty strong.
Speaker: This is a common, it's very strong, like Mehmet and so on.
Speaker: The problem is that this creates an interesting, good floor for this set.
Speaker: Geistod's floor is fun.
Speaker: You have a lot of archiving, you have stuff that does stuff.
Speaker: But the ceiling, the combinations of cards that can from just commons,
Speaker: end up in a deck can create situations that are just too strong.
Speaker: Like just the five different archiving cards.
Speaker: If I had an Ector charge in my name deck, for example, with the five common archivings and it has Boo and it has the haunted houses and so on.
Speaker: Like a single Ector charge in that would be a guaranteed key every game.
Speaker: And should we have a card that a lot of the time will be
Speaker: guaranteed archive and guaranteed free key.
Speaker: Do we want a card that every game will say, this is a free key.
Speaker: And this adds to a ceiling where if you look at GR and a single display of GR, I don't, I'm not very impressed, which makes individual card designs hard to say that I don't like this card design, but looking at, oh, but if you put this to combo together of common cards,
Speaker: then suddenly you have a ceiling that is astronomical in some of these houses.
Speaker: And sooner or later, unlike many of the other sets that had extremely busted some rare cards and so on, but no deck was busted just because it had three infernaces.
Speaker: It needed all the supporting cards as well.
Speaker: Here, there are such a wide range of different cards that can be supporting cards to these key sheets.
Speaker: bad yeah yeah the ceiling is scary and i don't think i want to play the game where that ceiling those decks exist yeah and also like like since it's in the same house like looking at house design like was it necessary to put the archiving tools in geistoid for example like why why do you need it to do it like on play like with memet and stuff it's so easy to set up
Speaker: in Geistoid.
Speaker: You could easily have put the archiving tools in a different house, so it's at least like a two-turn thing to make it so that the opponent's decks actually have some ways to combat it.
Speaker: Like for Mehmet, they have a turn to put different cards on top of the discard pile or whatever.
Speaker: So I think the issue is the house design itself
Speaker: They just gave Geist too many tools and too much synergy.
Speaker: I mean, the flavor is there.
Speaker: Like, you know, if you're going to mess around with the discard pile, Geist orders the house with the flavor, and instead of always bringing it back to your hand, etc., back into your deck, then, okay, the archive is the other place to go.
Speaker: But I agree, like,
Speaker: put less or spread it out.
Speaker: Like you've taken all you we don't know if you give the archiving tools to guys because it's flavorful make ecto charge into a different house.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm not sure what the flavor is there, but
Speaker: Yeah, because even Infernus can't deal with discarding, putting EctoCharge in your discard and then archiving it from your discard on the same turn.
Speaker: Yeah, but even like Visenia and Infernus.
Speaker: The fact that they didn't create anything except one Star Alliance rare card that sort of efficiently hits the opponent's archive still is...
Speaker: I don't understand it.
Speaker: Why keep archiving as this king of the hill of everything in the game?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Speaking about that, should I do my card?
Speaker: Yeah, let's, I mean, that was the only comment we had in the channel.
Speaker: Can I respond one more thing to his response?
Speaker: Yes, no, yes, you can.
Speaker: Which is, I'm not sure I really agree with the premise that we really need to punish Woe more than other sets.
Speaker: Like, I don't see, I know a lot of people think Woe is too powerful.
Speaker: I don't feel like that.
Speaker: I don't feel like that.
Speaker: So I kind of disagree with the entire premise that WoW is too powerful and we need something WoW cannot deal with.
Speaker: Because I think other sets have ways to deal with WoW.
Speaker: But I mean, under Ghost Galaxy's reign, having two really strong sets in a row is also something that's interesting to look at because this is them putting their stamp on...
Speaker: stamp on the game for new players coming in to say, you don't need to worry about the older decks and playing so much with the older decks because they're not going to be as strong.
Speaker: Yes, there's a few strong out there.
Speaker: The top end of the stuff you can buy on the second hand market, but actually now you can get more decks that are more competitive just by picking up less decks, which is a good thing because they're so expensive now.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I agree that's a good thing, but maybe not decks that are competitive just because they make uninteractive free keys.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: But competitive and broken are two very, very different things as well.
Speaker: And it's not just extra charge as well.
Speaker: We have other free keys.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: key cards in this set.
Speaker: The theme is there.
Speaker: I don't think that's a good... It's not very interesting to have like the Might Make Rights.
Speaker: It's easier to do in this set compared to when it was the last time.
Speaker: And same for the Dark Discovery is also easier.
Speaker: The Abduction is also extremely easy with Winds of Death.
Speaker: I wouldn't say it's easier than the Genka, but it's certainly easy.
Speaker: But it's more common.
Speaker: because it has a card combination required for it is much, much more common than a specific uncommon plus a rare.
Speaker: And I think it's easier also.
Speaker: Genka, I find that you have a lot of ways to play against it.
Speaker: I think people complain too much about that combo.
Speaker: I also don't think Genka is that bad, except...
Speaker: at the very alliance level of good pods.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Where you're guaranteed to do it every game.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: But I have a lot of respect for JT Russell.
Speaker: The Sloppy Labwork podcast, they do such good work.
Speaker: And I think he's really trying to push...
Speaker: really, really trying to really be the one to push that card, which is really great that he did that.
Speaker: And he made some points, but I just don't think they stand up that well to in the wider sense of the game.
Speaker: I mean, we gave him a tough job.
Speaker: We, we,
Speaker: Spent like 20 minutes talking about how bad it was last time around.
Speaker: Then people were coming a bit faster.
Speaker: And we did the same thing here.
Speaker: I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker: Listen, if you want to spend 20 minutes on something you say, make a really controversial comment and we will spend 20 minutes talking about it.
Speaker: But let's move on.
Speaker: Let's put EktarCharge to bed for now until...
Speaker: the next time we play Grimmer Minds because it will probably be in the game and go on with our other cards that we just don't like.
Speaker: Let's start with just cards we don't like.
Speaker: Simon.
Speaker: Yep, I can start.
Speaker: Apart from 90% of AOA, basically every creature in AOA that isn't in Logos or like, Brend.
Speaker: I have some specific cards that I don't like for some reason, and I understand why, but there are some bad artifacts in the game that are just so, so sad.
Speaker: that could have been just a tiny bit better and they would still be bad.
Speaker: And I call it like the little clump of artifacts that all essentially have the same thing in common.
Speaker: They require an action to do.
Speaker: The action barely interacts with the board because almost nothing stays around and it's very niche.
Speaker: And that would be the, oh, I've lost the names of it.
Speaker: The thing that enrages in... Soul Fiddle.
Speaker: Soul Fiddle is one of them.
Speaker: Then the thing that stuns giants in Worlds Collide.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What is it even called?
Speaker: Nepen... No, something gigantica.
Speaker: Oh, Nepete Gigantica, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is like the giant beanstalk, isn't it?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Those two cards are like, you play them, they don't do anything.
Speaker: Next, you have to call that house.
Speaker: Then you can do a very, very limited effect.
Speaker: Compare, for example, Soul Fiddle with Psychic Haze, the Mars artifact that exists now in GR.
Speaker: You can either call this and enrage one creature in the house that removes the board the most, or you can enrage their entire board and they also cannot fight the house that you just called.
Speaker: Like, Soul Fiddle, what's going on?
Speaker: It's a very sad card.
Speaker: But of course, these are easy targets.
Speaker: But I had to mention them.
Speaker: Someone had to mention them because they can ruin decks.
Speaker: If you get two of these, you suddenly have a completely unusable pod unless you're like every other card is S tier.
Speaker: I'm sick, so my voice is a little bit weird.
Speaker: But other cards I dislike.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I really dislike Winds of Death that I hinted at last time.
Speaker: I think it could have said archive the top five creatures in your discard pile or something like that that made it
Speaker: skill testing to make sure what was in your discard pile, where were they and when do you use it.
Speaker: Not a card that plays the best if you already don't have a board.
Speaker: I realize that the idea is sort of that it should punish you if you have a board because it doesn't archive the stuff you just had.
Speaker: But now it's a card that plays best if you let your opponent have a board while you are just playing actions and then you can archive all your creatures.
Speaker: They don't archive any of their board
Speaker: And you just profit of it.
Speaker: It's also the enabler of the most of the broken combos, I feel.
Speaker: It is the Genka or the Key Abduction enabler.
Speaker: It's the MMR enabler more than any other card that's like, oh, you can archive two selected cards.
Speaker: Oh, that's great.
Speaker: Or you do what the set does anyway, which is discard a lot of cards.
Speaker: And then you just archive all creatures.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I think it's an uneligent and the fact that it's so-called two-sided, I don't really buy it.
Speaker: The set that can forge free keys of their creatures versus sets that can't, then it isn't really two-sided or double-sided.
Speaker: So I think that's one of the biggest sign mistake bigger than extra charge.
Speaker: I think extra charge is too good as a single card.
Speaker: Yes, it's over the power level, but I think winds of exchange enables more
Speaker: bad play interactions in the long run than ExoFarge does.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I agree with that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's interesting though.
Speaker: So the two cars that you just mentioned are basically two cars because there's a really overpowered version in Grim Reminders.
Speaker: The artifacts.
Speaker: Yeah, the artifacts like the soul.
Speaker: Yeah, because they're just not powerful enough now against the new version or the cards do the same thing now.
Speaker: So just noticing your comments were very focused towards the fact that actually now these Grim & Minds cards are too good.
Speaker: Whereas maybe they wouldn't be.
Speaker: Would those cards have been as bad?
Speaker: People never liked Soulfiddle or Nepeete Gigantica.
Speaker: Absolutely terrible.
Speaker: Like absolutely terrible.
Speaker: Maybe we could find a middle ground between Soulfiddle and Beanstalk.
Speaker: Yeah, maybe there is a middle ground.
Speaker: Maybe giants coming in ready is really good.
Speaker: You just don't have to find a giant in your discard or deck.
Speaker: Wasn't there an unfathomable card that did something to half of your opponent's lineup?
Speaker: So the left half or the right half of your opponent's card and it's called Tectonic Shift.
Speaker: That's the one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, Winds of Death is a card that I find poor design, but I actually like.
Speaker: So that's a bit of both.
Speaker: I think it's a cool effect.
Speaker: I think it's a cool card.
Speaker: I hate it.
Speaker: Or I think it's shitty design.
Speaker: And a final card that I really dislike is Dark Ember Vault.
Speaker: It also falls under the too many effects in a single strong artifact.
Speaker: If they could have had two different artifacts in the same set, that was like Dark Emberwald and Light Emberwald.
Speaker: And one of them drew cards when you played Mutants, and the other made all of them plus three or something stronger.
Speaker: Super cool.
Speaker: Two cool artifacts.
Speaker: Instead, they put too many good effects in a single card so that you can take any single rare that can take a mediocre deck
Speaker: and turn it amazing if you just draw it in the first turn.
Speaker: It's like a bad design.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That cannot be said to be good design.
Speaker: I can very much agree with the two plus power was very unnecessary.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I think like the drawing after playing, I think that is a fun effect and that would be enough to have that for sure.
Speaker: I still love it.
Speaker: My bad design and dislike cards are a bit up here, but yeah,
Speaker: I also find it a bit of a bummer, this Dark Ember Vault, because you can get a deck with it and like three mutants.
Speaker: And then it does.
Speaker: I like it has such a big range in how good it actually is.
Speaker: And I don't know if I like that.
Speaker: I have a double DAV deck with four mutants.
Speaker: OK.
Speaker: It's still quite fun, though.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Those are mine.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Who wants to go next?
Speaker: I can go next with some cards.
Speaker: Go for it.
Speaker: Go for it.
Speaker: This is just ones that you don't like.
Speaker: Not so much about design, but just ones you don't like.
Speaker: OK.
Speaker: I could go for the super obvious ones, like the overpowered ones, Halifest, for example.
Speaker: But we've talked about that already.
Speaker: I'm going to say instead two cards, two Equidon cards from Grim Reminders that I think did scrap poorly.
Speaker: Tutor Bin Rillo and Gigroco Zapper, which basically have effects that you sometimes in the game, you don't want to play them and you don't want to discard them.
Speaker: because the scrap effects does something that you sometimes can't afford to do, which means that you have to hold onto the card when you want to play Equidon.
Speaker: I don't think that is very elegant design.
Speaker: And I think overall, I think scrap is very cool idea used in Grim Reminders, but I think they could have worked on those a bit more, like spread out the scrap effects and also made them
Speaker: Yeah, not go into this where, like, if I play the card, then my opponent draws a card.
Speaker: But if I discard the card, they also draw a card.
Speaker: And if I don't want them to draw a card in the end game, where, like, I know that them drawing a card means they are more likely to get the Ember control they need or whatever.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's poor design.
Speaker: And the other one is...
Speaker: Like if you, I forget, but it's something about like, it's good if your opponent has an artifact, but if you have an artifact, if you discard it, you destroy it.
Speaker: You destroy your own.
Speaker: And if you destroy your own, you can also destroy an enemy.
Speaker: So you always destroy your own.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: poorly worded as well.
Speaker: It feels like it's not intended really.
Speaker: What was the name of that card again?
Speaker: Zapper Gudroku Zapper.
Speaker: It's like the Swapper from WoW, but targeting artifacts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And another style card I think is poorly designed at times is Linked Rarity.
Speaker: done badly, like from Grim Reminders.
Speaker: We have a rare in Grim Reminders or in Geisel called Mischievous.
Speaker: And that card is fine in itself, but it brings in in some cases, I think four or five cards protective playmate, which is just like a decent taunt.
Speaker: But it's just so uninteresting to bring in like four vanilla cards for this rare.
Speaker: So I think the card in itself, Mischievous, could be like, it's a fine design, but I don't like the fact that they just feels like lazy to bring in four vanilla creatures into a deck based on a single rare card.
Speaker: And I think there is Kaspara in Geistord also has a bunch of linked vanilla cards.
Speaker: Yeah, I've got a Kaspara deck.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, there are other examples as well of this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I mean, the Kasparo one is, I think is a good card though.
Speaker: I think because the precious fragments that come in there is after Reap, if you're Haunted, gain one.
Speaker: Otherwise, discard the top card of your deck.
Speaker: Like if you have all these out on the board...
Speaker: that you reap to a key, you reap to check.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually quite like that one, but I agree about the Misfit.
Speaker: Misfortune, yeah.
Speaker: Misfortune, yeah.
Speaker: I think I saw there's also this Persephone and Shadis.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, it's supposed to be a persephony, but it's Persephone.
Speaker: I don't know how to pronounce it.
Speaker: Persephone and Shadis, which are kind of...
Speaker: I don't really understand how those effects are supposed to interact with each other.
Speaker: They bring each other in.
Speaker: It's like someone had an idea about the synergy and then they just forgot about it.
Speaker: And it's like, wait, these don't have a synergy.
Speaker: There's no payoff.
Speaker: One of them just brings in a card and why would you ever choose the card that destroys it?
Speaker: You can just choose any other.
Speaker: Why does it have that effect?
Speaker: Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker: Which of those two cards again, just for our listeners?
Speaker: It's spelled purse-a-phone, which is supposed to be a... And which house are we?
Speaker: Geistoid.
Speaker: So that's a pun of Persephone and Shades instead of Hades.
Speaker: Okay, yeah.
Speaker: I'm not saying I don't like linked rarity at all.
Speaker: It's the amount of cars that it brings in.
Speaker: Like Kasparra, there are decks that brings in four of them.
Speaker: I think that's excessive.
Speaker: I think that's interesting.
Speaker: Oh, OK, yeah.
Speaker: So that's the thing.
Speaker: And then cards like Tawiki Kraken, it's an easy one to bring up.
Speaker: But you restrict your ability to play the card too much in comparison to what it actually does.
Speaker: It's totally uninteresting if you play it.
Speaker: It's not like Cliffy Dragon, which is a bit tricky.
Speaker: Sometimes you have to discard it, but it's a nice kind of balance.
Speaker: Getting it out is sort of a win in itself.
Speaker: But Tweeky Kraken, it's a 12 power with some splash damage after reap or after fight.
Speaker: Instead of reaping twice with your ready creatures.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: You have to exhaust two ready unfathomable creatures to get it out.
Speaker: And I have a deck with two of these.
Speaker: It's so stupid.
Speaker: You can exhaust the one you played on the last turn.
Speaker: Yeah, I could.
Speaker: I mean, that would be an achievement, right?
Speaker: But yeah, it's really annoying.
Speaker: OK, so I know it's not my turn, but I think that a card that is more interesting, that is fairly bad, but it's done Link the Rarity right, which is a bit amusing for the deck, unlike Terry Kraken and so on, that doesn't have Link Rarity, but just a shitty design.
Speaker: We have, I like Xenos Blood Shadow.
Speaker: I like that Xenos brings in a toad.
Speaker: That is just bad.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: Like that has charisma.
Speaker: It isn't just a discard.
Speaker: You get the card that you will be able to play, but it's a bad card.
Speaker: Like it's a bad creature that doesn't do anything.
Speaker: It's also a fun story.
Speaker: Like it's Prince Derek that's now a toad.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: He's now a toad.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's great even if it's normally you don't want to want the Xenos, but at least you go toad.
Speaker: Yeah, that's Link priority down well.
Speaker: And lastly, I could just mention the freaking ships in DT.
Speaker: Looking at this, I actually went to DT mostly because it's so easy to get ideas for bad cars there.
Speaker: But yeah, the ships really it's such a cool concept to have one ship per house and it's
Speaker: Such a letdown.
Speaker: Like, yeah, it's the Star Alliance one is the one that makes you draw cards.
Speaker: Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker: But so many of the others, so uninteresting effects.
Speaker: It's basically like Soul Fiddle.
Speaker: But what makes the Star Alliance one all right is you don't have to exhaust Star Alliance cards.
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: While all the other ones you... They're like Teary Krak and artifacts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I kind of like the Logos one too, just because it has an amber pip and you can get some, you can roll the dice to see what you get when you take cards from the top of your deck.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: Imagine how fun it was to open a whole case of DT and 11 submersibles was what I got as rares.
Speaker: 11 submersible.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, but it's a missed opportunity because I think like the whole, um,
Speaker: like the thematic artifacts, the shards in AOA, like, yeah, mostly bad, but still kind of cool.
Speaker: Like they having multiples made each better.
Speaker: I think that's a cool concept.
Speaker: I think they could have done something a lot more interesting with the ships or I'm 100% sure they could because it's so uninteresting at the moment.
Speaker: But yeah, those are really bad.
Speaker: Is that you, Jay?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, go for Jonas.
Speaker: I only have a few which I think are bad.
Speaker: I love this game.
Speaker: I also only have a couple that I figured out that I don't like.
Speaker: But the one I picked, which is a very old card that's just one I don't like personally very much, it's Evasion Sigil.
Speaker: I just think it's annoying.
Speaker: It's a card that says when you fight with a creature, you have to discard the top card of your deck, and if it's
Speaker: shares the house with a creature that's trying to fight or if it's the active house, I don't remember, then if the card is of the active house, then the fight doesn't happen.
Speaker: And I think it's just I have a lot of problems with it.
Speaker: The card text is kind of clearly written.
Speaker: That's not a huge deal, but still it's hard to remember to resolve this effect when you're playing
Speaker: in person.
Speaker: The effect is kind of too random and makes it so that you can plan your turns, which I don't really like.
Speaker: And then, but it's also double sided.
Speaker: So it's like it's just adds like it removes kind of skill from the game a bit because it just adds a lot of randomness to it.
Speaker: Do you think I think it's actually
Speaker: like introduces decision points as well.
Speaker: Like, is it worth to, it's sort of a gamble, sure, but it still makes it so, what was like an easy decision to fight, now you have to like do the math or, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, but I feel like fighting is anyway so discouraged in CODA when this was introduced.
Speaker: So I don't really think they needed to discourage it further with this effect.
Speaker: Now it can make you haunted.
Speaker: Ah, okay.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: The new Evasion Sigil meta.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: It's just a personal thing.
Speaker: I don't like the card very much.
Speaker: I always groan when it's played.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, it's this card.
Speaker: Okay, yeah, I guess.
Speaker: And even when I have it in my own deck, if I'm playing Seel, then I'm like, yeah, it's a pip.
Speaker: I have to play it.
Speaker: And now I hate the game.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: It can be weird because you have so many fight effects in Shadows in Kotor as well.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Yes, that's a good point.
Speaker: You have Dodger, you have Umbra, you have so many of them that are fights still won.
Speaker: And it's like, yeah, now I guess I just rip with these creatures instead.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's one.
Speaker: And then I have also one which is very popular and I kind of take the contrarian view.
Speaker: I don't like Berserker from WoW.
Speaker: And the reason is I think it has too much of a span between how good it is when it's good and how bad it is when it's bad.
Speaker: But I've opened like two or three Berserker decks with like zero token generation in Brovnar.
Speaker: And then it's just the fact that he enters play ready is completely useless.
Speaker: And then on the other hand, you have decks that you have the Bursar token and you just have one fit of strength or the Foph transponder and suddenly you make infinite tokens anytime you want and they can immediately come in ready and do whatever you want.
Speaker: And yeah, I don't really enjoy cards that have such a huge span between being the best they can be and the worst they can be.
Speaker: I guess I agree because I haven't opened a single Berserker deck in 80 World Decks.
Speaker: So I suppose I don't like it either.
Speaker: Yeah, but those are the cards I dislike.
Speaker: I'm not really sure it's really a very
Speaker: It's just kind of a feeling I have.
Speaker: It's not really rational.
Speaker: It's just... It's your play experience, which is completely relevant.
Speaker: Yeah, but it's not a rational thought behind it.
Speaker: It's like those scars, I don't like them.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, I guess we'll move on to mine now.
Speaker: There's a card that I don't like.
Speaker: And I think this was mentioned for actually Yarnput.
Speaker: He chimed in and it's one of the ones that he didn't think was well designed.
Speaker: But ones I don't like just because it's another level of confusion, another level of thinking is Curiosaurus.
Speaker: Like, just trying to work out what happens when I destroy your creature.
Speaker: Where does the captured Ember go?
Speaker: Does it go back to them?
Speaker: Does it capture on?
Speaker: Who does it capture on, etc.?
Speaker: It's just really confusing.
Speaker: And I don't like playing with it just because I also have to concentrate on something else apart from the rest of the game stage.
Speaker: Which makes me sound really stupid.
Speaker: I think one of them is fun.
Speaker: But when you have two or three of them, then it becomes harder even just to follow the rules.
Speaker: Because if you move, depending on if you move the amber before, like if you move the amber so that they are out of amber, then they lose the ability.
Speaker: And then you move the amber back, they don't gain it back.
Speaker: So you can really change things in the sequencing when you have multiple, which is maybe fun for some tricky plays, but it's really confusing game state.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's very easy to get wrong.
Speaker: And if there's an ember here and there, that one can be the difference between being checked or not and be the difference between what you do on the next turn as well.
Speaker: So, yeah, curious, I just don't like Restring Guntus.
Speaker: is another one because it becomes a one-sided game.
Speaker: Like, the Gunters lockout, I just... It's like, well, if you're playing an important game and you just get, I think, the Restring Gunters lockout turn two, it's like, well...
Speaker: Why do I even turn up?
Speaker: It's not the two-sided game that I think Keyforge should be.
Speaker: Even if you have a good deck against a bad deck, at least both players should be able to play the game.
Speaker: In the background, Algar, Narner and I are making accusations against ourselves.
Speaker: I asked, how did we reach an hour?
Speaker: I wrote in the chat.
Speaker: He said, the usual way, talking shit and restating arguments from the last episode.
Speaker: Well, they're good arguments, okay?
Speaker: Talking shit is why people come to listen to us.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I was just answering your question.
Speaker: It wasn't like a critique or anything.
Speaker: so yeah well we're at an hour did we talk did we talk about restaurant gunters last time no no we talked about winds of death and ecto charge and uh i mean ecto charge we finished on i think we should talk about ecto charge i don't think so at all yeah
Speaker: But anyway, there are two cards that I don't like, and there are some other tokens that I don't like.
Speaker: And I'm completely trying to move past you guys interrupting me here.
Speaker: Just to, you know...
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Oh man, where's that Etten's Jar when you need it?
Speaker: Let's not play the Daramus card.
Speaker: Yeah, so they're two cards that I just don't like.
Speaker: In terms of bad design, I just think...
Speaker: I mean, I'm not a designer.
Speaker: Do you have a Restring Guntus deck?
Speaker: Or do you have a Restring Guntus deck?
Speaker: I don't think I even have a Restring Guntus deck.
Speaker: I rehab really bad.
Speaker: What a coincidence.
Speaker: Maybe you would.
Speaker: Yeah, I know.
Speaker: If I had one, then maybe I'd like it.
Speaker: I'll do a quick search here as well.
Speaker: But they're just two cards that I really don't like.
Speaker: There's also the Shadows creature that fights and with Skyrimish and both players get one, which I just, you know.
Speaker: But then that's just me not wanting to give Ember away.
Speaker: I mean, most people hate him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I kind of like him, but I'm weird.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't mind him.
Speaker: Yeah, I can't remember the card now.
Speaker: France is the economist.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: It's the kind of card that should be in Ecuador now because it does something and there's a payoff.
Speaker: But, you know, maybe it was just a bit too before his time.
Speaker: I think it works.
Speaker: You gave them the ember.
Speaker: You steal the ember.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: I've always seen him as an enabler for stealing as well, in case they have a zero board or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't have any good Restring Gun decks.
Speaker: I have one deck which is just under 70, but it's not a
Speaker: I don't think it's a good one.
Speaker: Going back to your previous announcement.
Speaker: So yeah, they're cards.
Speaker: We don't lie.
Speaker: We are hitting the hour.
Speaker: Were there any cards that people wanted to add in terms of not being designed well?
Speaker: They didn't think were designed well.
Speaker: And to give up, we did try.
Speaker: I did try and split this up a little bit, but I have some of them last time.
Speaker: No one mentioned Bumblebird.
Speaker: It's because it's an AOA.
Speaker: I said 90% of all AOA creatures.
Speaker: Yeah, but some are worse than others.
Speaker: I have one I want to mention that I don't like the design of, which is the Quixelstone.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Yeah, that's going on my list.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker: I don't like Quixelstone.
Speaker: On the last episode, I brought up Dr. Milya as kind of a good way to introduce an effect that can be a comeback mechanic and punish your opponent for going too far ahead on the board.
Speaker: And I think the Quixelstone takes that concept way too far because it can completely, like you can start some
Speaker: some matchups and you just see okay yeah they have 21 creatures if I have quicksail stone in my starting hand I win and that's it yeah I think it should have some kind of built in kill switch yeah because if you don't have artifact control then you're just yeah something like I don't know if there are zero creatures in play at the end of a turn it destroys or something like that yeah
Speaker: If your opponent has threatened to kill you in real life, destroy Quicksilts.
Speaker: I mean, it's another one of those cards where it can shut out the other player and just not make it fun for someone playing.
Speaker: Which, you know, this game is meant to be fun.
Speaker: All games are meant to be fun.
Speaker: But actually to be active, so you still feel like you're actually playing the game.
Speaker: It's sad, but...
Speaker: Yeah, like any cards that just if it's play on round one, then the game is over immediately in some matchups is sort of not the ideal.
Speaker: And I'm saying this as someone who played a Quixelstone deck for like 10 seasons or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I will ban Quixelstone decks just because I want to play Key Forge.
Speaker: Yeah, in the end, that's kind of because I never wanted to play that deck because I don't like it.
Speaker: So in the end, it's just like sometimes it caught some bans.
Speaker: That's why I had it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just built my Hexa the round not being affected by Quicksilence.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think we'll round off.
Speaker: Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker: I think we've hit the hour mark and I think we've had some pretty good arguments and we've kind of come to a few conclusions here as well.
Speaker: So we obviously have cards that we all dislike and we could probably carry on this conversation for another two hours, but we will stop here.
Speaker: So the...
Speaker: Upcoming times, do we have a reminder of when the sign-up for NKFL Season 23 is?
Speaker: That closes.
Speaker: Because we will be having our review episodes, preview episode.
Speaker: We will be having a review episode with Riku coming up when we get that worked out.
Speaker: So do we have a reminder for that, anyone?
Speaker: I think it's in mid-March.
Speaker: No idea.
Speaker: The 8th, I think.
Speaker: 8th of March.
Speaker: So we've got just over a week to go to sign up.
Speaker: Okay, so I found all the dates.
Speaker: It's a deadline, as you said, 8th of March for registering.
Speaker: Deadline to submit text 13th of March and start of season 18th of March.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if you heard nothing weird right before this, it's because Jason had ever done.
Speaker: I think we need to make a video podcast.
Speaker: Yeah, we need to start doing video stuff in New York, don't we?
Speaker: Yeah, okay, cool.
Speaker: Well, they're the dates.
Speaker: Jonas has said the dates.
Speaker: I don't remember because I was... We're busy doing something else.
Speaker: busy doing sign language with Zaramis but thank you everyone for watching I will mute you I will mute you again this is what happens when I'm not moderating the episodes good night everyone good night everyone see you next time for John and Prosper good night
Speaker: Redacted.
