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Making India Shop Smarter | Swati Bhargava @ CashKaro
127 Plays5 years ago
From Ambala to Singapore to London & then back to India! Here is the story of Swati Bhargava, the Co-Founder of CashKaro.com India’s largest & fastest growing cashback & coupons site.
Remember your class topper in school? Well, Swati was the scholar of her batch scoring a 100/100 in maths in her 10th standard board exams. A young Ambala girl aspiring to study at the prestigious St. Stephens College in Delhi, but as the saying goes “Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans” - Life had alternate plans for Swati & she flew to Singapore instead to complete her further schooling after winning a scholarship from the Singaporean government.
Earning another scholarship Swati flew next to London to study at the revered London School of Economics. Here in London Swati began her career as a part of the Investment Banking team at Goldman Sachs. It was also here that she met her husband and co-founder.
While booking her honeymoon trip she came across the concept of cashback & an idea was born which eventually led to her first startup - Pouring Pounds & then to CashKaro.
Today CashKaro is the only VC backed cashback site and has raised $4 million in Series A funding led by Kalaari Capital & has also raised investment from Ratan Tata! (Do not miss out on this anecdote where Swati pitched CashKaro to Ratan Data)
Swati is a recipient of India’s first Digital Women Award for the Best Service Offering Company in the Ecommerce Industry & has also been featured in Fortune 40 Under 40 List in 2019. She has also been a keynote speaker at several prestigious events.
Here are our key takeaways from our conversation with Swati:
- Raising angel funding in 48 hours
- Customer acquisition strategy
- Pitching to Ratan Tata.
- Growing an engaged social media followership
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:02
Speaker
H.T. Smartcast. You are listening to an H.T. Smartcast original.
00:00:24
Speaker
Hi, I'm Akshay. Hi, this is Aurob. And you are listening to the Founder Thesis Podcast. We meet some of the most celebrated sort of founders in the country. And we want to learn how to build a unicorn.
Meet Swati Bhargav
00:00:41
Speaker
Hi, my name is Swati Bhargav. I am the co-founder of CashKaro and our newly launched brand EarnKaro.com.
00:00:56
Speaker
In class 10, she scored a 100 on 100 in Mathematics and she graduated from the prestigious London School of Economics. She is as aspirational as one can get. She is Swati Bhargav. Co-founder of Cashflow.com, India's largest cashback website.
00:01:14
Speaker
In this podcast, Swati dives into her amazing journey so far and shares the most amusing anecdotes, some of which might even include industrialist Mega Mind, Mr Ratan Datta. For a country that loves to save, she is one person who is running a business with a very noble cause. Here's Swati, talking about how it all started.
Growing Up in Ambala
00:01:37
Speaker
Swati, let's start from Ambala. Tell me about growing up in Ambala and what was your family like? I have very, very beautiful memories of Ambala. You know, Ambala is a small town. Very often people used to ask me if I had a family. You know, abroad people wouldn't.
00:02:03
Speaker
But Ambala is a very, very special place. There are so many talented kids that have come out of Ambala. I think it's because they have sort of struck that balance of providing community-like support, community-like love. But at the same time, everyone is, you know, educated, doing well in business. They have good exposure also from an education, travelling, all perspective.
Family Influence and Education
00:02:26
Speaker
So I think it was actually, now I look in hindsight that actually Ambala gave me really good upbringing.
00:02:31
Speaker
And you know, growing up in Ambala, my ambition was really keeping my Saint Stephen's in my room. And I even took my parents there once and I said, we're the Saint Stephen's campus. They can't get out, you know. And that is how I was growing up. And that's how my life was going on until class 10 to me. Are you from like a typical Punjabi family?
00:02:54
Speaker
I am. Yeah, actually, I am. So, I was trying to think of typical Punjabi, but Punjabi is not typical. It's not typical health-conscious, but I don't know typical Punjabi. No offense because I'm a Punjabi myself. So, yeah. So, I grew up with... What were your parents doing?
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, so we lived in a joint family. My father and his brother, they both used to work together and they had an agricultural implements business, which was started by my grandfather. So Radhaji K. Zamanika started Kia Taha, but actually the two brothers really worked hard and you know brought it up and made it into a largest business, agricultural implements. So farmers go provide, connective implements is their thing. And my mom is there. My mom was
00:03:53
Speaker
you know, homemaker, housewife all through, you know, when I was there, when I was young. But at the age of 55, she actually started her own social enterprise called Lakshadha, where they gave employment to underprivileged women. They need to figure out how to raise their kids, their family.
00:04:15
Speaker
So she brought them all together and she taught them how to make you know beautiful handbags and how to make jewelry and I would wear it and I would take it with me to London also in fact and people would love it there. So she actually turned entrepreneur at the age of 55 which is amazing. Was she like a role model for you also to become an entrepreneur?
00:04:35
Speaker
She was and you know my father was as well because at the stage at which my father took the business from his father, it needed a lot of work and he worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard. He worked really hard.
00:05:05
Speaker
typical aspirational Indian house. I was raised like a princess, you know. But at the same time, I know that my
Academic Journey and Cultural Adaptation
00:05:18
Speaker
parents always had to work hard to make it happen. And my dad also worked hard and to his credit, that's why he was able to build such a big business and you know that he can actually relax today. So, but he's definitely worked for it all through. So both my parents have been my role models always as well.
00:05:34
Speaker
And my father-in-law also, I met him obviously after I got married and my husband. So around class 10th when you were thinking of Stephen's my aim of life, then life changed for you. So tell me about that.
00:05:53
Speaker
Well, it was then, so you know, I had 10k results, so I got 100 or 100 in mathematics and I think I talked to Harihana. It's really become too competitive now.
00:06:11
Speaker
So, my father, you know, he came across this advertisement in the newspaper, which said, from Singapore Airlines Scholarship and they said that we want to take 35 students from India and it's a scholarship by the government of Singapore. And up to 11, 12th Kili, 9th Singapore, A levels Kili.
00:06:32
Speaker
So my dad shared it with me.
00:06:45
Speaker
And you know, I always used to feel like you're not a maths Olympiad, physics Olympiad. So, but at the same time, you know, a part of me also felt, look, I have no idea where I stand. And you know, today I think I'm so good, but who knows? So why don't I apply and you know, so
00:07:05
Speaker
So my parents also really encouraged me to apply. So we applied, etc. applications, etc. And then we got a call, we all went to Morya Sheraton in Delhi, I remember for the first time. And I was just saying, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it.
00:07:28
Speaker
But it was nice and I gave my written and then you know I made it to the interview round and thankfully I actually made it through the interview round and you know they offered me a scholarship and then we were all thinking, what do you want to do? What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? My parents and all their friends actually they decided to you know one of my aunties she threw her dinner for everybody to
00:07:57
Speaker
to congratulate me and they all said that there was some discussion that was happening in Singapore. It was 16 years ago that we had to go through this discussion. It was more like we had to go through this discussion. It was more like we had to go through this discussion.
00:08:15
Speaker
So, anyway, I decided to decide if there is any opportunity for parents to be able to go to social media. You never know what else is there in store, you know. So, we all agreed that my grandfather was always so supportive. He used to say that if there is any opportunity, there is no opportunity.
00:08:37
Speaker
He would say that he was always a very good, strong voice in our house who always favored women's education. And my boys also at their times also were M.A. You know, and my grandfather always had a focus.
00:08:58
Speaker
So, I went to Singapore and I went and it was amazing. I was there for two years. Then I started thinking, what college did I go to? What was the UK university's campus? What did I apply to? Was it a tough transition? From a small town, very protected environment to being in a hostel, no family.
00:09:23
Speaker
Strangely enough it wasn't. I think I adapted very well and quite fast because I think what makes a difference is that in school also I was always debating, participating in things, friendly and I was always involved in things. So while I grew up in Ambala and I had a very loving family,
00:09:45
Speaker
It wasn't like it was protected or narrow-minded, you know, and that is what I think is special about Ambalaki Chhoti Jagaya, but what Khuli Jagaya or Khule minds me and okay. You just adapted to it and you moved on, you know, so... You felt equal to everyone there, you didn't feel like a small town and none of that like happened.
00:10:12
Speaker
I think it became a bit of a joke after a point. I think also what makes a difference is what you do when you get there.
00:10:36
Speaker
Because you know everybody has been given that same opportunity and then I never felt it in my mind. I had my own areas and I was shining right through you know and I wanted to be like that. Now we are all equal.
00:10:57
Speaker
We are all proud of where we've come from anyway. I joined the debating society and then I took these special papers in economics and mathematics and I was doing well in everything. So people therefore started knowing me for what I was and what I was doing there.
00:11:17
Speaker
you know and everything else became became a part of growing up and a part of our experience you know and then what kind of struck me was that you know there was like a group of people now these people
00:11:39
Speaker
could be from big cities but they weren't I thought making the most of opportunities which were given to them and you know some of us were trying to in some sense you know so so then once you finished your 12th what did you decide to do
00:12:00
Speaker
So then I thought that I would like to pursue education in the UK. So Oxford and LSE, these were always like, they became kind of my new dreams.
Professional Growth at Goldman Sachs
00:12:18
Speaker
So I decided that I will go to the U.S. and I applied to all the different colleges. Unfortunately, I got through to all of them. Oxford also and London School of Economics, King's College. Apparently, I think I did UCLA. So I got through my college and my Oxford interview, I think was the most
00:12:47
Speaker
you know, was the one that I prepared for the most because Oxford made Mission Milna is like something that, you know, you want to put it on your CV. So with that, I did that and actually at Mission Milna, but then Oxford did not give me any scholarship because they said, but London School of Economics, I applied to them also for financial aid.
00:13:14
Speaker
And they said, we will give you 80% of your tuition fee as scholarship. So, that was a good thing. So, but when I sat down with my dad and we kind of looked through,
00:13:31
Speaker
it was quite a bit, you know, and then we were thinking, and then my grandfather basically told my father, you know, you do it, you know, and then I also said, you know, I'll try and earn money on campus also. So I say, sort of, I went to LSE and
00:13:58
Speaker
I studied there. I did mathematics and economics, which was a bachelor's, bachelor's science degree. And I did some, you know, part time jobs in the first year or so. How did you get so much clarity so early on?
00:14:23
Speaker
There were a few things. When you go to LSE, before LSE, I had no background of finance and I had no idea what investment banking was. But when you go to LSE, there are so many posters of Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, everyone is hiding coming on campus.
00:14:45
Speaker
That aspiration sort of builds in the UK. I bought the three companies and I started attending some of their sessions. Goldman Sachs was the number one investment bank and it probably still is. And it had the very, very classic brand name. The next step has to be the number one investment bank, which in my view was Goldman Sachs.
00:15:14
Speaker
You know, I read this book also, the Goldman Sachs book. I was converted, so to speak. And I did an internship there in my first year itself of college. And when I went there, what I realised was that everybody was so smart, so intelligent. And then you feel that you will actually learn in this environment a lot.
00:15:40
Speaker
and you will grow. So I went to Goldman Sachs, I did my internship there and what I found was that, you know, everybody there was so intelligent, so smart, like alpha individuals. And you just feel, okay, this environment will help me learn.
00:15:56
Speaker
I will feel motivated here. I will become a better version of myself. I will learn a lot more and grow here, you know, as a professional. You know, you have something amazing on your CV. Okay, you were at a good brand name and if you could get into Coleman means you can get into a lot of other places as well.
00:16:18
Speaker
So my first year internship was just for a week. Then I applied for the summer internship. It was 10 weeks. So I did that in my second year. And then at the end of that, I got a job offer, which enabled me to start there after my college. So that was a big relief because also investment banking pays you well.
00:16:38
Speaker
Coming from the background and where I know that my parents spent a lot of money on my education, my first thought was, I can earn some money and I can find ways to pay them back also because they have put their life savings into my education.
00:16:53
Speaker
So that was also a very, very important driving factor. And therefore, I joined Goldman. So my third year was the best at LSE because I was relaxed. So I did more activities on campus and everything. And then I started working at Goldman after that. So what was your profile at Goldman?
00:17:15
Speaker
So, I joined as an investment banking analyst in the investment banking team. So, I joined in the investment banking team and I knew it's going to be a lot of work but I didn't realise that it was pretty long hours.
00:17:44
Speaker
It was good because I learnt a lot. Was it like you were helping in M&As and deal making and stuff like that? What exactly were you doing there? So actually, my team used to work on advising on capital instruments. There were some regulations in Europe that banks should have enough capital on their books as a buffer. We used to work in the structured credit and structured portfolio team. There were some banks, some other clients.
00:18:13
Speaker
We will help you raise that capital, we will help you structure something else in your boat, things like that. And did the Lehman crash affect you?
00:18:33
Speaker
Well, it definitely shook up the industry a lot. And there were, you know, layoffs as well. There were a lot of like, you know, it became a very, very tense atmosphere in the company. But thankfully, like I personally wasn't impacted. Okay, okay. So then, towards the end of it, I think for the last one year, you were in the executive office. So what was that experience like?
00:18:58
Speaker
It was actually a really good experience because it taught me something very different. You know, the first four years were all about numbers and pitching to clients and working very, very hard. The next year, so I wanted to move out of investment banking and I thought after four years that I'll leave Google.
00:19:16
Speaker
But then they said, look, don't leave. Why don't you try out this new role in a different kind of a division? So I did something very different. And I worked with the two CEOs of Goldman, Europe. And I used to coordinate the clients of Goldman at an overall level. So I had meetings with them.
00:19:38
Speaker
So, I would talk to senior partners and figure out how to figure out what to do. But after doing it for about a year, less than a year actually, I started feeling...
00:19:52
Speaker
It wasn't really my thing. So I just thought, and you know, at that time in the last year also is when I met Rohan, you know, who is my husband. And we started dating, we decided to get married. What was he doing?
00:20:08
Speaker
So he was, so Rohan has also grown up in India. He was born in Mumbai, lived in Chennai, studied in the US and then he transferred to LSE where he also studied. So we knew each other then as friends and we were friends for a long time until we started waving. And when we started waving, then it took us only three, four months to decide if we want to get married because we already knew each other so well by then.
00:20:37
Speaker
So, and he, you know, always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So he was working at different hedge funds and asset management firms. So he was also in the finance industry in London. So then you decide to get married around 2009, then then
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, so we got married in 2009 and then after getting married, you know, every weekend, he would be like, different parts of London. And then I used to tell him,
00:21:27
Speaker
But after we got married, we booked our honeymoon to Maldives and we used a cashback site in the UK called Quidco.
Inception of CashKaro
00:21:36
Speaker
And we were like, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing?
00:21:43
Speaker
we don't know about it and nobody we know knows about it. So why is this such like a secret and why such a hidden concept, you know? So that is kind of where our cashback journey started and we started exploring it and we felt Kike, I wanted to move out of Goldman and eventually he also wanted to do a business. So why don't we do it together and we got into the space of cashback. And in 2010, 2011 or so, we launched our UK company called Poring Pump.
00:22:11
Speaker
So did you use your own funds or did you raise investment when you lost? Initially it was all our own, but we raised money. So tell me about the cashback industry. How does it work? Like especially in the UK, like what is the business model?
00:22:27
Speaker
So actually, business model is the same in UK and in India. So I'll tell you in Indian context, so that it's easier to relate to in some sense. And basically what happens in the cashback industry is that so we as CashKaro, which is our Indian brand, we tie up with different e-commerce sites in India, like Amazon, Flipkart, Pepper Fry, Grover's, Big Basket.
00:22:52
Speaker
you know, mamahut, agiyomintra, absolutely everyone that you know of in the e-commerce space and we work with their marketing teams and we tell them that look, we will drive sales to you and her sales clear, you agree with us.
00:23:08
Speaker
So with that, most of them are okay to do it because they think that, look, this is performance marketing. Otherwise, even if we promote you wherever we can and we do a lot for you. But what we do is that, we give it to our
00:23:49
Speaker
And I mean, is it like a paid membership or anyone can become a member?
00:23:55
Speaker
It's a free membership. Anybody can become a member. So it is all your money. You don't have to come back and spend with us anywhere or some restriction or nothing, nothing. Every rupee that you earn there, you can get a transfer to yourself. After you hit that 250, we have a minimum threshold. You can take out everything.
00:24:20
Speaker
okay okay and are there like specialized deals also which are made available to kashkaru members and to other members of kashpak sites
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, at any given point, we've launched an event right now called Big Cashback Days. So, if you want to buy a cashback, we will give you a coupon code also, 500 off coupon code which applies on 2000 of our border. Plus, you will get 10% cashback also from us. So, this is the deal that cash coro members are getting if you go to a GEO via cash coro. So, if you want to buy a cashback,
00:24:59
Speaker
And how is this tracking maintained? Like if somebody goes through cash flow to a geo and then buys like say three items, how do you know that that person bought those three items?
00:25:10
Speaker
So what happens is that when you go via cash corros, so we have integrated with all these different sites and they have placed our pixels on their thank you page. You can check out the check out page basically. So if you have cash corros, if you drop a cookie, and you have to order the page, then your journey is basically resulting in a transaction. So if you have to order the page, then you just have to order the page.
00:25:37
Speaker
So, if you are using Pixel, Fire, Othi or Ustevo, then you will be able to get cash for your order. So, if you are using integration details, then you will be able to get back-end information about your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID. So, you will be able to get cash for your user ID.
00:26:06
Speaker
Okay, got it. Take it. So you started this in the UK initially around 2010-11 then what was the initial traction like and for how long was it bootstrapped?
00:26:19
Speaker
So when we started in the UK, our idea was that we thought we would actually set up cashback sites for other large newspapers and other organizations.
00:26:44
Speaker
So the daily mail newspaper told us that was our first line and it was amazing because you know both of us came from finance background.
00:27:07
Speaker
We would love to have you on board as a partner. And they all said, we are game, we are game. Because any means it's performance based. And then we used to go in the subway there. We would go there and every day going to work, we used to get this free metro newspaper. So we would go there and get this free metro newspaper.
00:27:35
Speaker
So we focused on that and we wrote to the Metro bank, Metro team and we had some meetings with them. We managed to get meetings, although we were totally new in the market. And it so happened that they were also looking for a cashback product. And we got the contact from them. We started running their site called Metro Money Back.
00:28:00
Speaker
That was the first thing we ever did. So we continued that for a few years and then we thought that, okay, we want to actually bring this idea to India because India may cash back. People like saving money, online shopping also was growing at the time.
Launching in India and Funding
00:28:16
Speaker
So basically couple of years after launching in 2013, we decided, okay, we launched CashKaro and that's when we did an angel round of funding in the UK for about five crores.
00:28:30
Speaker
So, in UK, you were largely a B2B player. In India, you decided to do a B2C play. So, why was that?
00:28:39
Speaker
Because we also knew from UK that B2B is not where a lot of the scale lies especially if you want to build a household brand. You have to be a B2C brand and the B2C market was empty in India to take. We were among the first guys here so we could take that and now I think anybody coming in will have to think, okay now there is an incumbent player of sorts.
00:29:02
Speaker
But we felt that cash flow was among the early sites here. So we felt that the scale of online shopping will only increase over time, which is what our core fundamental view about India was, which we still believe in. So that's why we went into B2C here. Okay. And in the B2B model, what was your revenue? Like you would take a percentage, the newspaper would take a percentage and the customer would get a percentage. Like it would be a three-way split.
00:29:32
Speaker
Yeah, the bulk of it we would give to the customer. Very often we would actually not keep anything as a percentage and charge a fixed fee to the provider, to the newspaper. So large newspapers were also okay to give a lot of it and sometimes all of it also to the customer. So that did not seem like a very scalable model, I guess.
00:29:57
Speaker
How much of it was okay but you know what the challenge there was? We have to rely on them to promote this service. You feel very helpless. How do I grow my business? Because marketing is in their hands. So we wanted to take a full control over marketing and we should own everything. Which is why we thought B2C was better here.
00:30:25
Speaker
So, I believe you raised the angel funding within 48 hours. How did that happen? Yeah, that was an amazing experience. So, you know, when we decided when we need more money. So, Lohan and I were just thinking and I was sitting with a friend of mine in Starbucks and I was saying, you know, cash for a launch, but you know, we should... You were still in UK at that time?
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah, we were living in London and my friend was like, you know, so many people. I don't know, until then somehow I hadn't thought about it so seriously. So I, you know, but then I said, okay, this is a good idea. So I actually made a pitch deck within 48 hours, made a pitch deck, sent it out to people who were, you know, who we knew in
00:31:23
Speaker
friends and family you know family there were either friends or people who I knew from Goldman and you know they were acquaintances basically and it was it was so amazing he like immediately you know Bole Lageki ya be interested let's meet let's meet so I started lining up meetings today for example for tomorrow and then I would go to a meeting and I would you know sometimes Rohan and I both would go or sometimes I would only go and then I would call him and say he's in Kannada
00:31:51
Speaker
And then on the second day, I was like, man, there is some magic going on. And then I think what happens is, people start getting motivated by other people. So when the first five people come in, the six, seven guy thinks he put a chai over, you know. But equally, we are very grateful for it because, you know, I didn't even meet them, we did it only on the phone call.
00:32:19
Speaker
And they were happy with that and they said, count me in, close around, let's go ahead. And our target was to raise $300,000 and we ended up raising 750. And even then we could have done more meetings and potentially got more people in also, but then we said, no, now we are going above what we need and we are diluting also a lot. So let's talk more and we capped it at that, which I think was a good decision. How much did you dilute for that 750?
00:32:44
Speaker
Oh, I think I can't do that. There are lots more people on the cap table, so they might be more concerned about it. So this was in 2013 that you raised. So when did you move to India?
00:32:59
Speaker
So 2015, late 2014, actually we started spending a lot more time in India and we started feeling the whole other business in India. Otherwise you don't get a pulse of the market and you know we used to wake up in London because India would become
00:33:46
Speaker
you know and the first person we ever hired was because
00:33:51
Speaker
And then we came to a point where we started hiding for other other roles and the team became like 10-12 people, then 20 people and we said oh I think we have to be there because we are also new in this business and they are also new.
00:34:07
Speaker
Because in 2014-15, we had digital marketing and we didn't even have funds to do a lot of senior hiring or something. So we had Mindy Jr. and sort of people. So they were all amazing, but we didn't have anybody to lead marketing assets here. So that's why we felt that we should be here, live in the house that we are building.
00:34:34
Speaker
So, we moved back to India and then business started scaling up more and he said then why don't we raise more money and you don't do something bigger by stop here. So, by 2015 when you moved was India bigger than UK, India business or were they roughly equal? India was roughly equal at that point. So, when did it overtake UK and do you still do the B2B part of it in UK?
00:35:05
Speaker
No, we got out of it in 2017. At the start of 2015, I think it was still equal. By the end of 2015, India had taken over.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So we started talking to fans here. I remember having a chat with my friend and novice venture partners and pitching to them for our Angel slash series A round. And today if somebody tells me that I was like, dude, you can't push too nervous for a series A, like they invest like 15 million, you know, I'm asking for like 2-3 million.
00:35:46
Speaker
It doesn't work like that. I think now there is a lot more awareness and maybe people who have always been here in that ecosystem had that. But for me it was completely new. When I moved here from London, ex Goldman was my only identity. And that was the first time I made a Twitter account. That was the first time I made a LinkedIn account when we started pouring pounds. And today I'd like to think I do my social media fairly well. But all of that is something that we have really, really learned on the job.
00:36:18
Speaker
So, yeah, I think at that point we started speaking with a couple of investors and we realized that karari capital was actually the right one for us because they do series A and we met the team, we liked them. So, it just kind of felt right from day one and I was hoping, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, thankfully, that was good. We raised about 3.8 million.
00:36:44
Speaker
How easy is it to get in front of VCs, like to open those doors? See, it was it then, is it today? Then, like for you, was it challenging or like, you know, did people introduce you to VCs and hence you got a lot of meetings or how did you go about it?
00:37:08
Speaker
I think my first decision in this whole process was to not hesitate to put myself out there and to tell myself that I will take every opportunity I get to be able to do that and I think those are very meaningful decisions so to speak to take because
00:37:26
Speaker
Many people don't do that and they feel conscious and they feel like, how do I pitch? How do I talk about it? What if others copy it? You have like lots of things in your mind, you know. So initially one of my friends, he did introduce me to a few VCs but it turned out that none of those were relevant because they were all series B plus VCs.
00:37:48
Speaker
So, you know, but then I wrote to people myself on LinkedIn. And I think I was surprised that actually almost everyone used to reply on LinkedIn. And I think that is even today also it happens if I write on LinkedIn, I usually get a reply. So that was a good, you know, so we I think we spoke, I think we wrote that Indian Angel Network, and then Indian Angel Network, we
00:38:12
Speaker
there was a guy who was managing some of this process and then he I think moved to Kalari and then one day I was just talking to him on skype and he was like what's up and I said nothing just started our fundraise and he said hey why don't you talk at Kalari and then I looked up Kalari and I said these are perfect then I looked into their portfolio you know they had snap deal, nintra like more e-commerce so I felt like this team will have a really good understanding and be able to help us as well because you know they understand the market also well enough so
00:38:42
Speaker
just started off with them and you know went from one down to the other and did my first sort of partnership meeting pitch you know with Bani sitting there and everybody else in their big room full of you know full table there and I just stood up and just pitched and you know that's what you just tell yourself you do it and I had done it before it's not like I've not pitched before I had done it because every time we would go talk to a VC first they'll make you say all this then only they'll tell you can I come to series B
00:39:09
Speaker
You know, so in some sense, you hit your right one, you realise, which is important.
00:39:24
Speaker
We do a lot of data research. People would ask us for cohorts. We would be like, what's going on? How do we do this research? And thankfully, both Rohan and I were very good with Excel. We were good in maths. We were good in our modelling. We were very good in the finance world.
00:39:43
Speaker
So it all kind of, you know, came in handy when people would ask for things. And I think that pedigree also really helped us because many VCs would say, you know, your business, and this is true for every sort of seed angel series, a sort of company that businesses do change over time and they are in fairly early stages. So a lot of investors take bets on founders.
00:40:04
Speaker
And if they come across people who have worked hard to make their life work hard to kind of get somewhere, then they feel like we can still bet on them. So I think that pedigree, that's where it helped to sort of do that. So how were you acquiring customers?
00:40:27
Speaker
Was it like word of mouth or was it adwords or what, you know, like 2013 you started. So how did your customer acquisition piece evolve over the years? So, you know, thankfully enough, 75% of our traffic has always been direct plus organic, i.e. not paid.
00:40:50
Speaker
since 2013 and this is true even today when we have started spending substantially more on marketing and I think it sort of started off because you know at the start we tried to focus on SEO we said we should you know have certain key things fixed in the site we can get organic traffic through that we focused on building a brand
00:41:12
Speaker
We weren't trying to do something tactical. It's a brand because we want to be a household name and that is still our aspiration today. So, we got a social media agency, we got a BR agency and with my agency, maybe Kayaki and all of them, we worked with agencies that were startups themselves so that we could manage the costs. And I was very active on both these fronts and I would go to LinkedIn and write to journalists myself.
00:41:42
Speaker
and say that, you know, this is who I am, this is where we've come from and this is the business we've started. We'd love to get featured in your column. And so I've done some of that PR myself. You know, and because of that, even today, there are some journalists that, you know, I know from that day, because we had lunch together the first time I came to India, you know, seven years ago. So even today, when the agency calls them, they say, please don't push cash guru to me because you have to pay for it.
00:42:09
Speaker
So those things help because then you build a relationship and then it helps you because you need help at every step. So it gives you that positive ecosystem that you need to do well. So I think some of that we invested in then of course we ran Google Ads, Facebook Ads and I've always been a social media friendly person so my focus was always on
00:42:34
Speaker
trying to do more of that running activity as well. Then we started doing email marketing. Then gradually as we went along, we discovered influencer marketing. Then influencer until today is a big piece for us because influencers on YouTube, on Telegram, Instagram, they make videos for cash grow. They tell people that look, if you are shopping online, you go buy a cash grow, save your money. Then they do videos for different deals of ours also.
00:43:06
Speaker
And then people started realizing that there is a lot of money that they can save with cash.
00:43:11
Speaker
And that is what made Kashkaro a habit for people. And you need that critical mass. So obviously there are lots of people in India that still don't know about Kashkaro. Some of them know it. They don't even use it because they forget it. And we are not that big yet.
00:43:35
Speaker
But I think there is a pool of, you know, good savvy loyalists and shoppers who sort of, you know, stay, stay true to cash grow and deliver their friends. So how has your membership grown? Like from 2013 to now, like if you can share some kind of growth numbers or something.
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So see, now we are almost 5 million members at Kashkaro. So that is a decent pool of members. And we do almost half a billion dollars in GMB per year. Okay. So that means you generate sales worth half a billion dollars for your partners.
00:44:26
Speaker
Okay, and about 8 to 10 percent of that comes back to you out of which a big chunk goes to the consumer.
Meeting Ratan Tata
00:44:34
Speaker
Yes, yes. Okay, okay. I mean average commission rates are not 8 to 10 percent, but that is how the business model is. Okay, okay. So, tell me about Ratan Tata and his involvement in cash security. Did that happen after Kalari?
00:44:52
Speaker
Yeah, so after Kalari, we spoke with Vani and we said, look, Mr. Tata is on your board, so can you get us something with him? And we all were also like, but then we decided to invest in him. But generally, our impression was that he was social, but then I used to get it. Why did you want to chase him? Why was he your target for you? You want him to invest?
00:45:20
Speaker
Well, you know, because I think both me and Rowan always felt that Mr. Tata has such a solid, solid brand name. And it's almost like a seal of trust and credibility. And, you know, he himself is such a successful businessman and people regard him so well, so highly.
00:45:41
Speaker
He is on our board, not on our board, but as a shareholder. It would be an experience to work and meet somebody like him. And of course as a startup, you know, you are looking for all sorts of validation rights. So it kind of helps you when you have a supporter like that.
00:45:58
Speaker
So we spoke with Kalari team and we said that he arranged an interview and you know, we used to joke that look, we are giving cash back to people. This is also a social cause. So maybe he'll be interested. But you know, more than jokes aside, it was the same sort of Singapore idea. And then at least we know where we stand also. So we took a chance and then
00:46:25
Speaker
I know that Larry was kind enough to sort of arrange that meeting for us. And there were a couple of startups. So we went to the Taj Hotel overlooking the sea. And I still remember so clearly that I kind of walked into that hotel. And the guy who was leading us, he took us to the lifts at the back. And there was a C button. You go to the chambers of Mr. Tata.
00:46:55
Speaker
And I said, what? Like, you know, I would have normally come to this hotel and never realized it's not easy. I don't get shivers. But I'm sure that I'm like moving and everything. But you know, at that time it seemed like, but I didn't think it was C++. So anyway, it was C++ we bent up and...
00:47:15
Speaker
So, this was 2015 December, early December when we had this meeting, because Kalari invested in November 2015. So, we landed on the floor, and we walked in and I still remember the whole thing was like beautifully wooden parallel.
00:47:33
Speaker
And it was just like, really nice. And then they tell you, we sat down and then the butler came to us and he said, ma'am, what will you have? And they said, amit the body you have? So then he just looked at me and he said,
00:47:48
Speaker
This is Mr. Tata's team, but everything is available. I said, okay. No, I never thought... Normally, after I told him, he said, I don't know what to do. So I was obviously doing my normal things. And then I was like, I don't know what to do. I said, whatever. So I said, no, I'll have pancakes, you know. So because I just like pancakes, I don't know why I wanted it.
00:48:17
Speaker
And then we went inside to the room and there was a huge table and Mr Tata was sitting there having his dessert. When I still remember his dessert, he had a few different traditional desserts.
00:48:33
Speaker
such a sort and sort of a man. Even at this age, he can eat dessert so well. So that is really good, right? And that's amazing. So then, Unibaby, he was sitting in the center of the table and his investment team was there and Kalari team was there. And they had an area to pitch. So there was a wall project.
00:49:00
Speaker
So, I went and stood there and then I realized that he will be sitting there in the middle of the table. We will not have any conversation. So, how is he going to invest in us because he won't even get to know us? So, I took a chance and I said to him that, sir, if you don't mind, can I sit across from you and have a conversation?
00:49:22
Speaker
the deck whatever we'll follow from here or we won't whatever we're not so fast but I would love to just talk to you for the time that we have. Though he said ki haa sure why not.
00:49:32
Speaker
and I sat there, you know, then he started asking me, who are you, where are you from? So that's how I wanted, like, I wanted it to be a conversation, not an interview. And then, you know, when you do something like that, you also kind of take control a little bit, right? Okay, now I'm going to tell you this, basically. And he was listening, he was attentive, so we started telling him about us. And then, you know, I also told him that my 95-year-old grandfather would be really happy today.
00:50:00
Speaker
that I'm here with you because his first job was with Tata Steel. So I have to take a photo with you at the end of this and start the nothing. And he said, you're a good entrepreneur, you've got to get to agree to a photo even before we start. So that kind of lightened up things a little bit.
00:50:20
Speaker
And that was it. So we spoke and then, you know, after I told him about it, Kashkaro and all, I mean, Roman spoke and then he, I said, sir, so what do you think? And he said, you are telling me that in a country that loves to save money, you are giving free money. So what's not to love?
00:50:38
Speaker
And I said, great, exactly my voice. And so we joked about it. So we said, yes, so we are all on the same page. This is a business we should do. We should scale in India, right? So we discussed it, and he asked questions also in between. Just like he was engaged, basically. And we sort of forgot about it. And Rohan and I thought, Kichalo, it was nice meeting Mr. Tata, investment. But experience was good.
00:51:07
Speaker
Then two weeks later, I get a SMS saying, hi Swati, this is Venkat, can you, can we talk? And I thought, you know, Venkat actually was an intern at Tashkuru at that time. And I thought, why is the intern messaging me at NBS? So he could reply me. And then, that's when it was like, I didn't know what to do. So I replied to him saying, of course, call me anytime.
00:51:37
Speaker
So he called me and he said, hi, this is Venter from Mr. Tata's office. So that was probably the most pleasant surprise I have ever got in my life. Maybe after my proposal, maybe this is the second one. And that was amazing. So he said, we were really impressed with your place and Mr. Tata would like to invest in your business.
00:52:00
Speaker
and I was just stunned because I was totally not expecting pellet of this wanker to open this fuse you know and then my first thing to him was that sir are you very very sure because if you are then I'm gonna get really happy then you can't take it back so he said yes yes just send me the docs we'll sign it perfect so I went and ran everywhere that I could and told whoever I could at 10 p.m and the rest were told mix up
00:52:27
Speaker
How has the product, Kashkaro, evolved over the years? Like from both the technology standpoint and overall the product for users, like the features available in it and all that.
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, it has really evolved because we've taken feedback, we've done user sort of UI UX studies in between, we've gone through a redesign, we've gone through, you know, a rebranding exercise as well. Is it a web only thing?
00:52:58
Speaker
No, both. Web, mobile, app, everything. Mobile site, mobile app, web. In fact, our mobile site gets the highest traffic and then mobile app and then desktop. So desktop has now become less than 10% of our mobile.
00:53:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's how India is now. So we have evolved with that. So, you know, the product, of course, the first thing is that the number of sites that we feature on Cash Guru, they've gone up a lot. Of course, when we started, it was like, you know, maybe 1500. Now we have over 1000 websites, pretty much everybody online is there. And from a user standpoint, we've built a lot of
00:53:37
Speaker
features like faster tracking. So what happens is that initially when we set up, you know, many of the reports were manual. So, you know, automated. So a lot of things have been integrated and automated. Within three hours, you get a message key or cash back has come.
00:54:06
Speaker
In some cases you get it in five minutes also. In some cases where the offline reporting is still there because that partner themselves haven't enabled the automated thing yet.
00:54:16
Speaker
So then it takes like 24 hours to do it. But, you know, that speed of cashback has gone up. The cashback amount for customers has gone up. The rates are, you know, are attractive. So the deals are better. We have a large technology team. When we started off, you know, it was our CTO, who was pretty much the only guy in tech for a long time. And now our team is about 20 people. And our overall team has 130 people, full-timers, you know, so we've gone
00:54:43
Speaker
that way. Our customer relations team has more than 25 people. So people get responses to their queries very fast as well. We opened up a phone call, chat, phone call, chatbot, email.
00:54:56
Speaker
we take queries from people on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, videos, maybe your comments, everything, telegram also, things like telegram have come in, telegram is actually very, very popular amongst dealers seekers, which a lot of the normal audience
00:55:17
Speaker
population doesn't really think about because they sort of think of facebook and instagram as social and then twitter has a little bit of views and political as well but telegram is actually where a lot of communities and deals are also being shared and thought of so you join those communities and share your deals as a marketing yes yes we do that then influence us amongst those communities also share our deals and we have our own communities as well
00:55:48
Speaker
And do you also do like you know like how Netflix will recommend to me what I should watch as soon as I open the app. So do you have something like that for users like what would be a deal that they would be interested in.
00:56:01
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. So that layer of personalization we have built in our engagement tools. So that personalization has happened to you and how we talk to you as well. Okay, okay, okay. So you diversified into Earn Karo about a
Launch of EarnKaro
00:56:27
Speaker
year back. Yeah. Tell me about that.
00:56:30
Speaker
So you know Earnkaru came up because we were sort of thinking you know, Cashkaru is for the slightly evolved online shopper that if I am shopping online, how do I get a good deal is what is my question and then I will go find and I'll discover Cashkaru and I will use it.
00:56:45
Speaker
But then there are lots of other people in India who are, you know, who know how to place that online order. But they find it a little challenging and they need help in that process. So as we get more and more people online in India from tier 2 to tier 3, tier 5 cities as well, you know, there is a little bit more of hand-holding needed as that funnel opens up.
00:57:08
Speaker
So, we thought Earnkaro is basically, you know, so Earnkaro is a platform through which you can share deals with your WhatsApp groups, your telegram groups, your Facebook, anywhere you want. And if anyone buys from the link that you share, they get to, you know, shop at the site as normal, but you get to keep their cash back. So, you earn what we call as profit. Let's say Anouski use cases,
00:57:33
Speaker
I might be a student and I have a Whatsapp group. I might be a housewife and I'm part of a, you know, condominium called Whatsapp group. Now, when I'm on that group, I know that people over there think of me as a mini influencer and I, they will listen to what I'm saying. So I can say to them, Hey guys, Amazon pay, grocery, save chilvie.
00:57:58
Speaker
So I will share that link of Unkaru link of Amazon over there. That's fine. But essentially you are like empowering micro influencers to monetize their influence network.
00:58:28
Speaker
exactly exactly and you know there are also influencers also who are on instagram on youtube so they so for example i'm quite active on instagram and i often post saying key you know i bought this shirt from a geo and it's so nice and so comfortable it's you know all cotton
00:58:46
Speaker
And somebody says, are you going to be linked to them? So now Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is saying here you can buy it. Amazon is
00:59:11
Speaker
It goes straight to that product page only, not to the homepage. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, okay, got it. Okay. So, tell me about how to grow your social media following. So, you know, that is something which you have learned over the years. So, what are some of the lessons that you'd like to share? You know, I think you are at 50,000, close to 50,000 on LinkedIn, which is a pretty big number.
00:59:39
Speaker
Actually, LinkedIn, I think the number is more because 50k will allow me to add more. So everybody else who sends a connection, so there are about almost 10,000 unaccepted invites in my inbox in LinkedIn because we can't add more. So everybody else basically goes into a follower, shows up as a follower. So on LinkedIn, I think the number will be over 100k.
01:00:04
Speaker
But all those are, to be honest, just numbers. I honestly thank you. People who follow you, they have a certain impression about you. But the people who know you, they should like you because they know the real you.
01:00:16
Speaker
So, how to, I mean, A, it takes some effort. So, you know, unless you are like Sachin Bansal and everyone knows you anyway, and you know, everyone, like, worships you anyway.
01:00:35
Speaker
So, effort is one. Second, I think it's about figuring out what is the kind of content that they will get from you if they follow you, if they connect with you. So, therefore, that is where you are almost building a brand for yourself and building yourself as a brand.
01:01:03
Speaker
people start sort of understanding just say my sister now she's a makeup artist so all of her content is around makeup takes tips and beauty looks and she posts about the brides that she does makeup for she'll post something DIY something or the other you know so I have taken a slightly different approach I mean similar actually to my sister you know what I do is that I
01:01:26
Speaker
post about a mix of personal and business because I think that a lot of people if they are interested in your business they actually want to get to know you as a person and there might be some people who may or may not be that interested in your business but they find you inspiration as a person or they dislike you as a person everything is not about inspiration also and they just are happy to stalk you to some extent or to see you or whatever
01:01:50
Speaker
You know, so what I do is I post about cash flow a lot. I post about, I think we have a fabulous work culture. So I post about the team things that we do together. I post messages for my team members as well. I post a lot of shopping recommendations because again, that is something I enjoy.
01:02:09
Speaker
You know, so I enjoy fashion, I enjoy shopping, I like trying out sites which we put on cash flows, so I try them out. I post, I post about, you know, my, let's say if I'm covered in any media or I would probably put the link of this podcast, you know, or I'll just post
01:02:32
Speaker
maybe about what I'm up to also. I don't like to post necessarily about small, small things. Like, you know, there was a time when Facebook was new and people would post, you know, we read cardio, we read soup videos. I didn't like to do that. I feel like, you know, so I try to, you know, mix. But it is very, very true. It's very original. It's very me. I don't like to have a different facade for it. You know,
01:03:00
Speaker
So, how have you split work between you and Rohan? What do you look after? What does he look after? That's an interesting question because we have so many overlaps but we have some very clear areas also. So, Rohan looks after product and tech. That is all he is with the product team and with the tech team. I don't get into it at all.
01:03:23
Speaker
He also looks at some other marketing channels like search engine optimization, like our search engine management, like our Google Ads and stuff. Now what happens is that let's say if we are doing a large campaign, though Lohan will talk to the SCM manager about some kya campaign chilare, ke se chilare, but kya creative chilare, that will come under my domain because creative brand, social investors, media, all of that is under me.
01:03:51
Speaker
So anything that we talk about putting out to the world, whether it's a creative or whether it's a PR release or it is an article, that kind of comes into me. Certain forms of marketing we split on, this influence of marketing. Because we both have a different perspective on it and we have different approach also.
01:04:11
Speaker
So we both like to contribute in some sense, but then the team managers take a call. So any tips for couples who work together, like how to keep things sane and happy? Because in a startup, I imagine there would be a lot of insane moments and a lot of disagreements. Yeah. I think that while, you know,
01:04:37
Speaker
lot of generic tips can be given. But the one, one thing that for me is the most important as a couple working together and probably applies for any good working relationship of co-founders is to not have any egos at all. Because you know, that is the point where you have to be okay to sing to the other person that find this is okay, you are right, you run with it.
01:05:01
Speaker
You know, and you should be okay to take a backseat on certain things and be prepared to put that front foot forward with all your effort on certain things. So, you know, so that, that, that mix is really important. And I think for us why it works well is because, you know, AB, we both sort of let each other do what we've got, what the other person wants in their domain. So if tech is Rohan's domain, he wants to prioritize certain things. He wants to, you know, do it differently. I don't get into it at all. I'm fine with it.
01:05:31
Speaker
I know that in my mind he is the best person for that job and the day I feel he is not, I'll probably also share that with him, that look I think we should get someone who is professional for this particular thing. But equally he would do that with me. So I think because we respect each other and we both have given each other that space to grow and to be honest we've not really had a lot of big fights also thankfully.
01:05:57
Speaker
They hardly had any issues where, you know, we both had such diverse opinions that we wouldn't know how to end this argument, you know, maybe if you come up something, but so far it's not come up. I think it's because we both let it go, you know, and I think if you let it go, then you won't have these issues. Okay. So what's next for Swati as a person?
Personal Growth and Well-being
01:06:20
Speaker
Like what are your personal goals or what are the kind of things you're interested in learning, doing?
01:06:26
Speaker
Um, you know, I am, uh, I'm really into sort of yoga and meditation and I have, uh, I mean, I see I'm into it, but I know that I need to do a lot more to it. So my first, uh, you know, when this lockdown started, I told myself that I would, what I really want to do is to start waking up earlier. So I used to be a 6.5, 7 a.m. person, which is not bad. Uh, you know, because I know many people who are probably 8, 9 a.m. also, but I needed to be at 5.30.
01:06:55
Speaker
because I think factory changes the game and now I've managed to do that so that is like a big step up for me because I feel that then it gives me you know that quiet time in the morning so I'm doing that I am I want to be able to meditate a lot better
01:07:13
Speaker
A lot of meditation books also say this, that when you start to meditate, don't expect that your mind is working. Because your mind is working. It's not like suddenly your mind is not working. But I want to be able to do it much better.
01:07:30
Speaker
If I have any issue, I want to be able to heal myself in trying to do that. And I'm a big believer in putting the right energies out to the universe, feeling good so that you attract that. So I listen to a lot of Gabriel Bernstein and Sister Shivani and Satguru and all of that. So I feel like over the last one year, I have evolved a lot as a person. And I really, really want to continue that journey for the next couple of years until I feel that, OK, I've got it all under control.
01:08:00
Speaker
I mean, I don't think I'll ever have it all under control, but at least you feel that you are in a much better place, you know. So I mean, my team tells me that, you know, we've seen you change so much over the last one year, because you are always so calm. And I mean, I was never like crazy, angry sort of a person. But I think it's different to be calm, but it's different to be a positive person 24 seven.
01:08:25
Speaker
You know, and not like the irritating optimistic joke, which would be, you know, the other person thinks that for example, not like that. But I think that, you know, like on my birthday, for example,
01:08:41
Speaker
It was really sweet that the entire Cash Guru team, they put together a video and everybody said different things. And many of them said that we like talking to you in the morning because you make us happy and you make us smile and you're positive. And that is what I want to continue being. I want to be that more and more for every person. So I think it needs work on yourself to be able to do that.
01:09:03
Speaker
So I think for me, you know, more than other skills, like, you know, at some point I thought I want to learn singing also because it's something that I never thought I could do. So you just have this thing in your mind, I'm so bad at it, you know. So all that is true. But I think that this journey of self-evolution is one that is very, very rewarding. So I want to continue.
01:09:28
Speaker
So that was Swati telling us how she scaled up Cashcore with the help of marquee investors. If you are in the mood to do some online shopping, make sure you visit cashcore.com first to snack some great cashback offers. And don't forget to thank Swati for all the discounts and deals.
01:09:44
Speaker
If you like the Founder Thesis Podcast, then do check out our other shows on subjects like Marketing, Technology, Career Advice, Books and Drama. Visit thepodium.in that is t-h-e-p-o-d-i-u-m.in for a complete list of all our shows.
01:10:31
Speaker
This was an HD Smartcast original.