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The Perspectives Pod: Episode 1
7 Plays4 months ago
Where we discuss the recent TikTok ban (which was still in effect at the time of this recording), social media's broader influence on our politics, and the viability of a third party for non-MAGA conservatives. (Mind the name--we've changed from Bridging the Gap!)
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Transcript
00:00:10
Speaker
OK, hello, everyone.
Podcast Introduction and Mishap
00:00:12
Speaker
This is bridging the gap. This is our inaugural ah session. Take two, because on the initial inaugural session, yours truly forgot to hit record. But you know you live and learn, and we had a good discussion anyway, so it was constructive.
Meet the Hosts: Malcolm, Joseph, and Simone
00:00:31
Speaker
Yeah, so let's so let's go ahead and introduce ourselves. I'm Malcolm Gidry. I'm the father of these two individuals joining me. um Joe, go ahead and introduce yourself. um My name's Joseph. I'm 30 years old. I've got the privilege of having my dad as my dad and my sister as my sister.
00:00:54
Speaker
i spend way too much time reading current events, and which who I will discuss as this goes on for sure. I hear you, Simone. I'm Simone. I'm 26. I spend way too much time on social media, and um I live in the Northeast, and I'm a nanny and a realtor.
00:01:14
Speaker
So there's a lot going on in the world today being Sunday, the 19th of January, 2025.
Political Climate: Trump's Second Term and Biden's Legacy
00:01:21
Speaker
The final day of the Biden administration. Oh my goodness, you know, final day of the Biden administration. Four years flew by. ah Tomorrow, Donald Trump is inaugurated for a second time. And let me get your thoughts, guys. Simone, give me your thoughts.
00:01:39
Speaker
I'm trying to be optimistic and hopeful um Wasn't the biggest fan last time So far I'm a little hopeful because he's trying to save to talk and that's really big for me you know, maybe he can win my approval, but We'll see right and Joe, you know, I'm on the same wavelength as Simone and that I'm trying to be optimistic but I Have trouble with that because I just I paid way too much attention to him last time to the point of obsession practically. And this time around, i I'm worried about what he might do with his new allies he's gotten. us but Particularly TikTok. I think that he will definitely save it. I just am worried about what TikTok might need to do for him as the effect of dawn of the country. Did you see that he is having um the CEO of TikTok
00:02:37
Speaker
to be at an inauguration like right behind him where like previous presidents sit and such like important people he's like having him that close to him on inauguration day. That's that's very interesting and that sends a definite message you know and in in politics ah perception is reality and so you want to make sure that if you're surrounding yourself with certain people at your inauguration that they're the right people and you're sending the right message.
Support for Presidential Success
00:03:08
Speaker
So that really speaks volumes um with regard to pro-business versus showing unity with previous presidents. um that That's really interesting. Yeah, i um you know I want him to succeed on behalf of the American people. I think we should always want our president to succeed on on our behalf, on behalf of the country and on on behalf of us.
00:03:34
Speaker
Uh, and that's what I want for him. Um, I do have concerns based on, you know, how things, uh, turned out in his initial, um, presidency, you know, four years ago, but, uh, we'll have to just wait and see. Um, I mentioned earlier before we got online.
Trump's Cryptocurrency and Conflicts of Interest
00:04:01
Speaker
As of Friday night, he announced a ah cryptocurrency that he established. Interesting that he would announce that a couple of days before he's inaugurated. Interesting is one word. You know, I mean, it's the timing isn't good.
00:04:17
Speaker
And the perception isn't good, of course. It started at $20, a token, it jumped to $70, and it's got a current valuation of of over $24 billion. dollars Now, Joe, go ahead and explain what that means, the valuation being over $24 billion. Sure. And I'll just preface this by saying that while I'm interested in crypto as a technology, I'm not an expert in it. but It's valued at $24 billion, possibly higher as we're talking, but he couldn't cash out on that right now and get $24 billion. You need a buyer. It's like a stock, but it still would get him a lot of money where he'd a cash out. and Specifically, the currency, 80% of it, I believe, is owned by one wallet, one
00:05:04
Speaker
one entity that is able to access up to 80% of the total currency. And that entity is almost certainly a Trump-related organization, considering he started the currency. Oh, we don't know that for sure, though, do we? We don't. That's my assumption based on the um the evidence that is currently in public. But if that is true, then that would mean that, let's say, a business, an individual, a foreign government even, who wanted to bribe Trump, they could do it by buying some of this currency if he did actually have access to the majority of it and could sell it. yeah It is a distinct conflict of interest no matter what, because even if he doesn't have a personal stake in the currency, he's still promoting it, he's still advertising it, and it is definitely not related to the government anyway. Yeah. And that's one thing, again, you know, perception is reality. You don't want, you should never
00:06:00
Speaker
make money off of public office. I don't care if you're the dog catcher or the president. If you're a public official and you're using your position to increase your net worth, you can't do it.
00:06:15
Speaker
I don't know if there are laws per se against it. it's certainly It certainly is not something that should be done from a a moral perspective, from an ethical perspective.
00:06:30
Speaker
uh i would have to think there are laws established i don't know how those laws affect the president specifically but uh yeah this this just does not look good uh so uh you know that's that's something else that i noticed this morning in fact and and uh yeah i'm i'm a little concerned about it so let's see how that develops one thing i want to say to anybody watching this this podcast we try our best to be nonpartisan.
Nonpartisan Critique in Politics
00:07:02
Speaker
And what that means is, you know, if somebody does something wrong, I don't care what party you're in, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about that and we're gonna point it out. And so it just happens that, you know, Trump
00:07:20
Speaker
There's a lot ah a lot of things that he's done that really have caused a lot of questions to be raised. And um we have to, as citizens of a democracy, we have to keep um their feet to the fire. Anyway, with that said, all right guys, next thing let's talk about, I know it's near and dear to Simone's heart.
TikTok Ban and Legal Challenges
00:07:41
Speaker
That's the TikTok ban. So Simone, get us started. Go ahead and fill us in.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yep, so as we all know, I think Biden had said in motion a TikTok ban and this week the Supreme Court did vote on the ban being allowed, upheld for that saying that it doesn't. um It doesn't have any, problem like it doesn't have any obstruction with freedom of speech or whatever was kind of what the TikTok organization or ByteDance parent company was trying to say that this would really affect Americans freedom of speech. And the Supreme Court said it basically doesn't. um And so late last night around 10 30, TikTok, the app went dark and the users could not access access it anymore.
00:08:30
Speaker
But as of just about 30 minutes ago, it's back up and running. um TikTok let out a quote on social media. I'll read it to you. It says, an agreement with our service providers. TikTok is in the process of reserving service. We thank President Trump for providing the necessary clarity and assurance to our service providers that they will face no penalties providing TikTok to over 170 million Americans.
00:08:58
Speaker
and allowing over 7 million small businesses to thrive. It's a strong stand for the First Amendment and against arbitrary censorship. We will work with President Trump on a long-term solution that keeps TikTok in the United States. Are they saying that that because Trump's not president yet, he becomes president tomorrow? Not president yet. Yes, they said President Trump. And I mean, you can still say that because he was president at one point. So like anyone who was a previous president, you can say,
00:09:24
Speaker
President Bush, you know, even though he's not president anymore. So I don't know. just Are they saying that he had something to do with implementing? They are. Yeah. They're saying something about that. um And the Biden administration pretty much said, they said earlier this week also that they weren't going to like force the band. They weren't going to uphold it and they were going to leave it up to Trump when he came in the next day.
00:09:51
Speaker
Um, I think the reason that TikTok still shut down anyways for like those eight or 10 hours was because they never really got any official word or official like statement from Biden saying that. So they were kind of worried. They didn't want to get penalized. At least that's what I've been seeing on TikTok. Um, so maybe that all got sorted out. I don't really know, but it's back up and running. Um, who knows how that, will if it'll stay for good, nothing really even said, it's just working again.
00:10:19
Speaker
Well, I do not use TikTok whatsoever, but i I have to admit it's not a good look, no matter how you look at
Social Media Data Harvesting: TikTok vs Others
00:10:28
Speaker
it. Even if you think TikTok is a blight on society, it's, if nothing else, a hypocritical application of their reasoning for banning it. Functionally, TikTok is not much different from Instagram or from Facebook or any of these other major social media services.
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's algorithm-driven. It is inordin harvesting and harvesting inordinate amounts of data from us. Now, TikTok is sending it to to the Chinese government, but private company, Chinese government, they're still harvesting American citizens' data. And for them to apply this ban to TikTok, but not to other social media, it shows an unfair bias at the very least.
00:11:16
Speaker
and you You know, I think with saying that it's harvesting, yeah yes, that is factually true. They are harvesting a lot of data from U.S. citizens. And that's where the national security implication comes in, um which is the primary reason for banning TikTok. ah The idea, the fact that they're harvesting all this information from roughly 170 million U.S. citizens.
00:11:42
Speaker
who have downloaded the app and most of who use it on a regular basis. so you know You post things, you comment on things, you like things, whatever the case may be on TikTok, what China can do is just that information, not not mentioning other information that may have they may have gathered from the app, but they can use something that you've posted against you um and threaten you in such a way that if you don't do something on their behalf, we're going to go ahead and expose you for posting this online.
00:12:24
Speaker
So it it what it does is it exposes US citizens to bribery ah and makes them vulnerable to manipulation by China. um And that's why it's it's a national security threat, one of the reasons. I'm sure there are other reasons regarding national security and sensitivity of data that I'm not aware of.
00:12:50
Speaker
But when you realize that you know some people may post things on TikTok and they may be in positions of of power or influence, and then TikTok comes across across what they posted and they say, oh, we could use this to our advantage and use it against that poster. We could make them famous and not in a good way. So that's that's really dangerous. And the same thing, I think, applies to RedNote or any other.
00:13:18
Speaker
app that is developed and hosted in China. It's quite funny how this new app, well it's not, it's new to the US, but um it's basically like TikTok for China. Because if you didn't know, Chinese people in China to don't use TikTok. It's not allowed. They have Red Note. And this, I know,
00:13:37
Speaker
This is a completely Chinese um app. Earlier this week, a bunch of Americans jumped over to this app, um basically took it over. it was It was really funny for a long time, and the Americans on TikTok just started commenting. They're like, whatever, I'm just gonna learn Mandarin. They can take away TikTok. And I think the government saw this. like This is a full-blown Chinese app where TikTok it's not fully Chinese like the owner is Singaporean. He's not even Chinese I don't know I couldn't even get into that but this app is really Chinese like it's only in Mandarin all that it's way worse this terms of service it's all in Chinese so we couldn't even read it if we want and people kept saying them on TikTok they're like they care so much about our data I don't care I gave it to China just now it it was all in Chinese I don't care like the American people are so over it they don't care who has their data
00:14:25
Speaker
They just want to have a silly little app to like entertain them throughout the day. That's why I'm hoping someone comes along soon to buy it.
TikTok's Influence: From Creators to Businesses
00:14:35
Speaker
um I don't know, of course, there's a concern about how the algorithm may change because the way the algorithm is is configured and designed, that's really its it's strong point. ah Certainly from your point, Simone, because you're a creator. You're an influencer on TikTok. I mean, you've got over 100,000 followers.
00:14:57
Speaker
you've got videos that have been seen tens of millions of times, and you've made a decent amount of money. Let me just point out to you guys, I did some research this morning, um so it's, as I mentioned earlier, over 170 million Americans use the app, okay, as of April of 2023, the global influencer industry, not just including TikTok, but Facebook, YouTube, the entire global influencer industry as of April of 2023 was worth, at that time, around $250 billion. dollars That's according to Goldman Sachs, okay? Huge investment house, here ah headquartered here in New York.
00:15:41
Speaker
um By 2027, which is just two years away, they estimate that it's going to be worth close to $500 billion, around $480 billion. That's huge money. Overall, check this out.
00:15:57
Speaker
50 million global creators as of 2023, 50 million global creators ah using apps like TikTok, YouTube, et cetera. um But only 4% are professionals out of that 50 million. I'm sure it's more than 50 million now, but 4% who earn $100,000 or more a year.
00:16:24
Speaker
So it's it's big business, okay? And if you want to pursue it, Simone, you've earned tens of thousands of dollars. that you haven't I don't think you've earned six figures yet, but you've earned five figures, certainly.
00:16:37
Speaker
um it's it's ah you know it's it's an app that can help you to promote causes, promote products, um you can establish a business with it. So this is going to affect, however, millions of Americans, let's say out of 170, maybe 3 million are are actual creators.
00:16:59
Speaker
You also have to think about all the small businesses that TikTok has really helped. Like a lot of small businesses wouldn't be where they are without TikTok. Right. Able to really like spread the word about your product or your small business. Give us an example of some of those products. Well, like um there's a girl who makes like hand knit sweaters and she absolutely blew up on TikTok. She has, I don't know, maybe like 400,000 followers and she makes really, really nice sweaters and she was selling them on Etsy. She can't make these sweaters fast enough now, but just getting the word out or like some mom and pop like restaurants. Like ah someone will post a video about how they really like this restaurant, but they don't get enough customers. So they're going to shut down. And a week later, the place will be full just because people heard about this store. And then there's also Chili's where this girl posted a single video about like, we don't have to feel bad about Chili's because like they are really pig chain and they always have been, but they were on the decline for a long time.
00:17:53
Speaker
And then they came out with these mozzarella sticks and they're like huge mozzarella sticks and the crazy cheese pull. People went insane about it. This one girl posted about it and just completely like single handedly saved chilies because people just started going there for these mozzarella sticks. So the impact that TikTok has on not just like small creators, big creators, small businesses, big businesses, it's a lot.
00:18:16
Speaker
like Instagram and Facebook cannot do that because of their algorithm. It's just not the same. So what is the alternative then if let's say a red note doesn't turn out to be the alternative we would want it to be? Yeah, I don't think it will be.
00:18:34
Speaker
what else
Future of Social Media Platforms
00:18:35
Speaker
What else is there? I mean, YouTube, I know for podcasts, YouTube is a huge ah platform, but when it comes to being an influencer like you, what other, I mean, what other apps, I know you're on Instagram, right? Yeah, Instagram. I think Instagram would be like the closest in similarities. um Facebook reels, people keep saying, but that's just a very different demographic. I have a feeling someone will come along I mean, listen, we you know we're the we're the country that hosts Silicon Valley. You can't tell me that American developers can't develop something that's as good, if not better, than TikTok. So to me, someone has to come along, develop something that's at least as good as TikTok.
00:19:25
Speaker
It's just a matter of who and when. I think that in the concerns about TikTok, we might be ah looking at the trees and ignoring the forest or however that phrase goes. Looking at the forest through the trees? we If TikTok were to stay banned, then that's one service ban that can be utilized to harvest data. That's one service ban that has a lot of people who may made money off of it, who were able to have have a decent living from it.
00:19:51
Speaker
But the problems that can of arise from the way that TikTok's being saved, I have deep concerns about because it's essentially being presented as Trump saving TikTok. That TikTok will be quite grateful to Trump for it being saved. Everyone using TikTok, especially those who are less informed about current events might see Trump doing a great thing for them by saving TikTok. And that's a lot of loyalty in a social media program. and I could easily foresee TikTok becoming quite pro-Trump. Well, you know, when you consider, as you mentioned earlier, um ah the the president, the CEO of TikTok is going to be sitting behind ah Trump at the inauguration.
00:20:42
Speaker
So, yeah, that I can see, I mean, again, guys, there there has been talk of an oligarchy. Listen, there's been talk of an oligarchy um assuming prominence in this country for since before Trump came along. You know, I can remember, um I can remember, oh, gosh, 20 years ago, a reporter, you guys might be familiar, Joe, certainly. I know you're more into, you know, 20th century history.
00:21:10
Speaker
But ah Bill Moyers, Bill Moyers was, I think he's retired. I know he's pretty old. I don't think he does much in the way of reporting. He had a PBS show um at one point. He's written books and articles. He was with the Johnson administration years ago. I
Wealth and Power in Politics
00:21:30
Speaker
think he might have been. I want to say he was Johnson's press secretary. and he He had something to do with the Johnson administration. Anyway, long story short, he was talking about how you know there's a ah ah possibility of an oligarchy eventually rising up and exerting control here in the United States. Well, guess what?
00:21:50
Speaker
Here we are. And that's not conjecture. That's not an exaggeration. We actually now have extremely wealthy, very powerful people who are exerting their influence on the incoming administration more so than they have ever exerted influence on any other administration. And look, I mean, you've got at Trump's administration. What is it? Something like an average of 80% or more of his appointees are billionaires?
00:22:18
Speaker
ah the people also, I forget if they were also they're also going to sit on the dais or if they just donated significantly to his inauguration. Yeah. That's not just the CEO of TikTok. It's Jeff Bezos of Amazon. It's Elon Musk and Twitter and everything else. It's Bill Gates. It's Zuckerberg. Yeah, Mark Zuckerberg. of He's one of the most prominent examples, especially in the aspect and the avenue of social media because recently he's made such a pivot to the political right in terms of how meta operates and policies.
00:22:50
Speaker
well it It's all self-serving. It is. He wants access. He wants financial benefit and resources, but he's willing to give a lot to the Trump administration for that. What's the deal with this guy? I mean, have you seen his appearance? Compare his appearance now to what it was, I don't know, let's say two, three years ago. He's got this longer curly hair. He's wearing these chains and doing m MMA. What the hell got into this guy?
00:23:17
Speaker
it but It's the tech-brill symptom. And by that, I mean the the curly hair is popular with young men these days for reasons I couldn't explain. But it is. The chains, its bling, its glitz, its glam, and the modern style, the m MMA, its traditional masculinity. And I use very big quotes with that. It's all the things that the youth, especially young men, think are cool. It's like the Jake Paul style, the Andrew Tate style.
00:23:46
Speaker
And he wants to invoke that. He wants to be someone that looks like he's in on that. And ah his personal reasons for that, I don't know. Before this, he really had an unhealthy obsession with Julius Caesar. An obsession or an interest? I would say obsession if what I read about was true. He had several busts of Caesar. He styled his hair like Caesar. he yeah i This is all things I have not followed up on recently. I don't know if it's true or not. but Zuckerberg has always been a somewhat strange fellow.
00:24:19
Speaker
You know, that's a question I'd have to ask. Kara Fisher and Scott Galloway um have a podcast, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. I've mentioned it to you before. It's called Pivot. And they talk about lot mostly tech issues because Kara Swisher had a a couple of other tech podcasts that were really popular. um But
Tech Billionaires' Political Influence
00:24:40
Speaker
i'd have to I'd have to phone in a question to to those two and ask them, hey, are you familiar with Mark Zuckerberg's obsession with Julius Caesar. You know anything about that? you know I'm curious now. I would definitely recommend anyone who either isn't sure of my saying that or wants to know more, look it up. Yeah. ah Because I found it through articles that I read a while ago, but right right whatever the case may be, he's just one of several billionaires who yeah are part of this oligarchy. And It's not like it's been a recent development of starting. I genuinely think that back during the Johnson administration when Bill Moyers was mourning of this, it was already starting. I mean, if you look in the political spectrum, the polarization and the current state of the political right in the country is the result of a 50 year, if not longer strategy. So for the business the business industry overtaking
00:25:39
Speaker
Politics it was not done overnight. It was it didn't start and the wake of Occupy Wall Street It didn't start in 2008. Well, no, in fact, you know you think about The Eisenhower administration ah when President Eisenhower was leaving office the I think it was what? probably January ish of 1961 when JFK was sworn in and Yeah. His farewell a address. Eisenhower was on the way out. And you remember he he spoke about the military industrial the militaryindustrial complex. I think that was the first time that term was applied to them, but yeah, he did. And he warned of their power and warned of how they might use their massive resources to influence the country. and Sure.
00:26:26
Speaker
which they have. Here we are. i mean And I say that as a veteran, I mean, I am an Air Force veteran, nine years in the US Air Force, come from a family of veterans going way back to probably at least as far back as the Civil War. um And I love my military, I love my country, but do we really need a nearly $1 trillion dollar a year budget for the US Department of Defense? you know That's an awful lot of money and we could we could shave off a little bit of that to you know for domestic programs. Absolutely. But anyway, that's a whole other episode. Yeah, without getting into the whole military industrial complex topic,
00:27:05
Speaker
there's a distinct difference between the military and the military industrial complex. So you say as a veteran, I think those are two very different groups. ah like so So we don't get distracted. ah I want to actually go back to what we were talking about with concerns about TikToks, um data usage versus other social media, and how national security might be an issue.
00:27:25
Speaker
Sure. National security, to me, is a matter of ensuring that outside actors do not negatively impact the people of the United States. And that's not just foreign governments, it's private corporations who are not beholden to any one government. Right, right. And negatively negatively affect them, not just verbally, not just politically, physically. Physically, you know, financially, any sort of result that impacts the quality of life or safety of the American people, essentially. i'm I'm looking at Elon Musk, who is, and I don't want this to be taken as an anti-immigrant statement, but he is not a US citizen by birth. He came here from another country and is now he now has an integral hand in leading the country.
00:28:15
Speaker
I don't want to say he's shadow president or any sort of conspiracy like that, but he has an undeniable influence on President Trump. Well, the optics, the optics are not very positive and in the face of democracy. And by all public accounts, he is not the most level-headed person in recent actions. Right. He's just one example. We have Mark Zuckerberg, who clearly has an agenda that is focused on meta success and I would say very little else. I don't think he's very civic minded with his current approach to ingratiating himself with the administration.
00:28:51
Speaker
and Facebook operates in all kinds of countries across the world. So does Twitter. Well, and then what about Jeff Bezos, his ownership of the Washington Post and exerting his influence on ah what the Post published. but What was it? When when did he when did the Post decide to take down the the cartoon by ah and telling us I believe her name is the the cartoonist that was That was either late last year or like in the first couple of weeks of this year. was after the Was it after the election or before? I think it was after the election. But that came after ah earlier in the year before the election. They refused to endorse a candidate or there there was something about the Washington Post endorsement. Correct. It was before the election, they refused to endorse either candidate. And yeah as terrible as that was, and ah I really say terrible, I enjoyed the Washington Post's reporting up until that point.
00:29:51
Speaker
It's a drop in the bucket for Bezos. The real money for him? It's Amazon. It's specifically AWS, which is his web hosting service that effectively powers a third of the publicly accessible internet, perhaps more than that. He, through his companies, has, on a technical level, possibly more influence than any other billionaire that it is around today.
00:30:16
Speaker
It's not the kind of influence you can exert through, say, TikTok, but there's a lot of power and a lot of ability that these very these few people hold that are now all trying to get in on the current administration, whether to receive financial compensation through a direct or indirect means, rather to influence the administration, but it's certainly not just the administration running the show.
00:30:42
Speaker
And you know what, if you think think back to the the Gilded Age, of the late 1800s, early 1900s. I wanted to mention from the Robert Barons, but yes.
Antitrust Legislation and Economic Deregulation
00:30:51
Speaker
Oh, sure. you You think about the influence that people like John D. Rockefeller had on the economy and you know some of the steel magnates, um Andrew Carnegie.
00:31:03
Speaker
You know, the railroad magnates like, what was his name? Gould, I think was one of them. You think of the power and influence. The reason we ended up ah creating that, the reason Congress ended up creating antitrust legislation.
00:31:17
Speaker
was because of the inordinate influence that these people had on the country and on the economy. and we have been It seems we have been over the past, I don't know how many years, in the throes of deregulation, which has put us to where we are now ah economically. It's going to be really interesting.
00:31:39
Speaker
ah Yeah, that's i'm I'm thinking of other episodes to come that we can discuss, you know, the effect that these sort of things will have on lower and middle income folks and the burden it's going to put on their backs so that the the really wealthy can can continue to do what they want to do. Absolutely. Anyway, let's let's segue now. Simone, did you have another, you had another issue you wanted to discuss? No, not really. Just all I can think about is TikTok. Oh, you can think about TikTok. Hi, it's kind of consumed my week this entire week. Absolutely.
00:32:15
Speaker
I understand. And I do think for you at least, it'll turn out well. yeah And you and every other person who likes TikTok, I foresee it coming back strongly. Not that it's gone now already, but it's going to be around for sure.
00:32:29
Speaker
Well, Simone has put a lot of effort into her influencer, um I don't know what to call it, product. um She's done a lot of things and it's it's certainly helped to increase her um intake, her her earnings over the past couple of years. you know So it's really interesting how, you know, This is an example of the new economy and how rather than having a nine to five, which Joe, you and I have, your sister has decided, you know what? I don't want a nine to five. I want to do X, Y, and Z. And she's doing fine. She has a nice little apartment of her own. And, and you know, I mean, you and I are 12 and away at our nine to fives. And, you know, and I probably don't work more than like 30 hours a week, 30 hours a week.
00:33:22
Speaker
I think is probably the most I work between banning TikTok, really a all those things. Right. you know it's it's ah I don't want to say abilities, perks like that. that i I'd say in the past two weeks I've had somewhat of a, not reversal in TikTok, but i I never knew much about it and I had a fairly negative opinion
TikTok's Diverse Applications
00:33:43
Speaker
of it. Not a strong opinion, but I would not have missed it if if it were to go away. But you're talking with people that do use it through just reading all these articles that come out about how people actually use it that are worried because it was going to be shut down. There there are things like I've heard book talk is something. Is that something you know? Yeah, it's like a part of TikTok where you can like discover new books to read or people to discuss books like a book club like a virtual book club
00:34:10
Speaker
Why not? I never knew that. Yeah. A massive book club and and it's young people, right? Like, you know, sometimes even teenagers, right? Yeah, it is. And like, you just researched so many things. Like I use TikTok as Google sometimes. Like today, I think I wanted to look up um these pair of jeans that I wanted to get. And I was like, Oh, just look up if anyone has them on TikTok. And I was like, wait, I can't, it's not here. Like oftentimes I will look something up on TikTok before I actually buy it, whether it's a book or an article of clothing or going to a new restaurant. Right.
00:34:37
Speaker
or movie movie recommendations if I don't know what to watch. I'm like, okay, what are the top 10 suspense moves right now? One thing I do need to mention since we're talking so much about TikTok, ah in full disclosure, the law firm that I work for, and I'm not an attorney, I am legal software instructor, trainer, ah but the firm that I work with, we represent ByteDance on several matters. I don't know what those matters are. I don't know if we're representing TikTok on this this ban and the case before the Supreme Court. I have no idea.
00:35:17
Speaker
and but get for in an effort of full disclosure just in case someone from my firm sees this video and And you know says, you know, hey he works for us and we represent tick tock I know nothing about those cases. So I do want to make very clear You know that you know just in the effort of full disclosure. I know nothing I see nothing. Yes, huh save your butt dad, you know, make sure you save your butt cover your tracks and Listen, um but what else? Oh, there was something else I wanted to mention to you guys.
00:35:52
Speaker
Jodi, you were going to say something else? It reminded me of the thing that I forget every now and then where I start to get somewhat narrow-minded in my perception about modern social media. It's all a tool. All technology is a tool. TikTok, if anything, I care greatly about it now because if it's going to stick around, and I think it should, it needs to be, in my opinion, more transparent in how its algorithm works because I can see so so many nefarious ways it could be utilized, especially with the influence of a possible, ah but with the possible influence of the Trump administration on it. yeah I don't want to see it devolve into a propaganda tool. I want to see it continue to have book talks and movie recommendations and to be this place where if you don't know what you want to look into, it will help you find what you want, not tell you what you should want.
00:36:40
Speaker
i can't I can't agree with you more because, and which is it which is another reason, a really good reason why we need regulation of things like TikTok, social media.
Regulating Social Media for Democracy
00:36:51
Speaker
We need regulation when it comes to the internet. The influence that people can have over, for example, social media, people in power, whether political power. I mean, look, Donald Trump, Elon Musk, people of that sort who can exert lots of power over the masses ah unregulated using social media. that's That's a terrifying thought. I mean, you know, if you've ever read 1984, which I have to admit I haven't, I've read parts of it. I haven't read the full thing. But talk about Big Brother.
00:37:25
Speaker
And they won't let go of that easily. that That's something that I wonder is back in the early 20th century, whenever we did enact antitrust regulation, whenever we did break up these massive companies, right I wonder how many people thought the fights over were done and didn't consider that these companies that have been recently broken up did not like that and that they would try and reverse that decision.
00:37:49
Speaker
Well, you can never let your guard down. And I think that's what lots of you can't or rather you shouldn't. But I wonder if perhaps over the decades we did let our guard down a little bit too much.
00:38:00
Speaker
I'm sure. It's interesting. I think Democrats tend to do that. i think democratic The Democratic Party tends to be a little Pollyannish when it comes to democracy. and They tend to think that most people are good.
00:38:19
Speaker
I think people are people. People, I don't care who you are, you have a good side and a bad side. and and you know It's all a matter of choice. um I think you know we have to keep our guard up. if you know Whatever it is that value that we value when it comes to democracy and freedoms, ah you you can never take it for granted that, okay, will we establish this legislation? We're good now. We can raise our arms and go on about our lives.
00:38:48
Speaker
it's not that It's not that simple. It never is. And that's it's one thing that the Republican Party, especially in the past, understood quite well. It's why the Republican Party has been able to consistently work towards their agenda throughout changes of leadership and even entire administrations. And I think it's a symptom of the Democratic Party being a very big tent. The Democratic Party has progressives that could make Che Guevara blush. And they've got neoliberals that make Joe Biden look left wing, all in the same party. And that's a lot of butting heads. And that's a lot of stress that once a victory is achieved, no matter what it may be, I think a lot of people might just say, all right, thank you. but We're done. We're done finally. And then not pay as close attention as they should.
00:39:38
Speaker
Right, right. And and you know on on the flip side, you've got the Republican Party who has people who are conservative, but they're more ah along the the vein of, let's say, a Reagan conservative. I'm not too sure the Republican Party has any significant factions that aren't considerably right-wing at this point. Traditionally, yes, they had fiscal conservatives, social liberals, they had Reagan Republicans, they had more hard-line factions, but a lot, and this is somewhat anecdotal, somewhat based on what I've been reading, a lot of conservatives have felt like the Republican Party's left them behind, and so they don't consider themselves Republicans anymore. They are still conservatives, but... Do you think they'll ever be a third party?
00:40:27
Speaker
Yes and no. I think that there's a possibility for another incident similar to the weak party to happen where the Republican Party. But it was easier back then. Wouldn't you agree? It was easier back then? and It was much easier because there just wasn't as large an apparatus for the party. you know they For one thing, the idea of national parties, it's anathema, even unto the concept of political parties themselves. you know The Founding Fathers didn't really support political parties in general, but they certainly would not have supported political parties that are national before they are state. right There was a time where you didn't have
00:41:05
Speaker
the National Democratic Party or the National Republican Party being the leaders. There was just the state Democratic and Republican parties or Whig parties or Green parties or whatever. Right. They had a national apparatus, certainly, but it was more just sort of logistics and letting the other state parties communicate. But no, I do think it is possible, though, because there are a lot of so there are a lot of non left wing people who are on a wide spectrum who a lot of them don't have a party anymore.
00:41:34
Speaker
Starting a third political party, it should be organic. It should start from the ground up. That would be more long-lasting. If you start if if you has to create a ah third political party from the top down, a national third party, I don't see how that's going to succeed over the next few years because it it almost feels as if it's forced on you. That's something that needs to to grow on the local level first in several states from the ground up so that it can really take root and and spread over years. It it will take time but if it's going to be effective it has to start that way as opposed to
00:42:17
Speaker
you know, ah these these parties, for instance, let's say these ah the the ah Mitt Romney's and the Liz Cheney's and other Republicans who are sick and tired of where the Republican Party is today, they decide to get together and create a third political party that addresses the concerns of their type of Republicans. Well,
00:42:41
Speaker
you know you've you it's not going to go anywhere on a national level unless you start locally. No, you're absolutely right. If it's top down, then it feels astroturfed and people are trusted from the start. I do think that it could happen. I think it probably is starting to happen, even if it's not actually being called a third party.
The Case for a Third Political Party
00:43:02
Speaker
It's because there are a lot of these orphaned Conservatives, but it's not going to be quick It's probably not going to happen even if it is going to definitely happen for another 15 20 years. Do you think uh, Do you I don't really think you know a lot of people are afraid they're they're you know, what's that nursery school? Um, uh story chicken little the sky is falling you know, a lot of people think oh god, you know democracy is going to end I don't think our democracy
00:43:30
Speaker
I'm concerned about our democracy because of the way things have transpired over the past several years, but I don't i think our democracy over two hundred nearly 250 years has guardrails that have been in place for a long enough time that it will take more than one yeah president more than one presidency, more than two terms to ah end our democracy. So I think as long as citizens remain vigilant and well-informed with facts,
00:44:05
Speaker
ah that I think will be okay and people have to vote. We had 90 million voters who chose not to vote, people who were registered to vote who chose not to vote. Voter apathy is so difficult to counteract because you need to counteract it through authenticity and To do that, you need people who are genuine, who have beliefs they believe in, and they need to have a platform large enough and open enough to actually reach these people. And there are a lot of opposing forces that don't want that. For example, as a microcosm example, Alexandria Oskario-Cortez, aoc she's a New York representative. AOC, yes.
00:44:45
Speaker
She did a an informal survey of sorts after the election asking for anyone in her district that voted for Trump and also voted for her, just asking them to talk to her, to to reach out, to explain who they are. That's quite a spread, voting for her and voting for Trump. Talk about diametrically opposed. And there were people who did vote. Yeah, that well,
00:45:10
Speaker
read One of the ah common reasons ah some of these people said they still voted for her and Trump is, you're both authentic, you're both real. and Now, the truth of that in respect to Trump is questionable, but that's what they believed. They genuinely felt that. and it To me, it shows that voters crave real people. and When I say real people, I mean,
00:45:36
Speaker
politicians who they stand by their stances, whatever they are. what What do you stand for exactly? Yeah, they're they're not going and I'm not, I don't think that that people don't want flip floppers. I just think people want someone who if they so believe something, they'll explain why. If they change their opinion, they'll explain why.
00:45:56
Speaker
I think that's why somebody like John Federman in Pennsylvania, Senator Federman, is where he is now. you know He's only been on the political scene. He was mayor of his town in Pennsylvania. Then he ran for Lieutenant Governor. Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
came lieutenant governor and now he's in the U.S. Senate and this has all happened within what a 10-year period? He's had a relatively rapid rise and he's also had a lot of... He's authentic. Yeah, he's authentic and it's it's interesting though in his case because he's had a lot of friction from have of the left on his side.
00:46:32
Speaker
because he has committed a cardinal sin in our polarized ah political space of considering reaching across to the Trump administration.
00:46:43
Speaker
Right. Well, but that's politics. Politics is the art. A lot of people don't understand this. Politics is the art of compromise. You've got to be able to reach across the aisle and work with the other side to come to an agreement so that you can pass legislation. Absolutely. It's polarization that we have in in Congress now where The Republicans are refusing to vote for anything the Democrats want. The Democrats are refusing to vote for anything the Republicans want. That's bullshit. What you end up with is is gridlock. And guess who suffers? The American citizens who need this legislation passed because that's what governments do. A government is supposed to help its citizens. Without a government, what the hell do you have? You have anarchy.
00:47:27
Speaker
We need government, we need government to work government to work on our behalf, but we've gotten to the point where there's gridlock and nothing's getting done. And yeah it's it's funny you mentioned um the Republicans and Democrats refusing to vote for the other side. I can't think of a more perfect example than last year.
00:47:46
Speaker
the ah Biden administration and the Democratic Party pushed legislation for ah border but border ah reform, essentially, that it was everything the Republican Party had asked for in the past 10 years, plus or minus a few details. It was a dream bill and they voted it down because it was an election year and they wanted to be able to argue on
Political Gridlock vs Bipartisan Hope
00:48:07
Speaker
the border. yeah And it's just such a pathetic excuse for that.
00:48:15
Speaker
Sure. We've reached the point of absurdity. It's not even based in reality. It's based in sort of abstract political spectrum for making these decisions that affect real people, us, the voters. You know, I had a very wise politician who you both know and love, who told me a long time ago, you got to get along to get along.
00:48:40
Speaker
Okay, in politics, you got to get along. In other words, work together to get along in your career as a politician. So you can do things on behalf of your constituents, you got to get along to get along. We don't see much of that right now. We don't and I'm glad that Fetterman is reaching out in that sense. And I hope others follow that example, because if The Trump administration is wanting to govern and not just grandstand. We, we the those who are perhaps not so ideologically aligned with them, still need to be listening to the Trump administration yeah and be willing to reach to reach out and help make and and help enact legislation that will actually benefit the American people. However, I do think there is a point where we can't keep continuing to be Charlie Brown trying to kick the football.
00:49:34
Speaker
yeah yeah this is a new and This is not a new administration, but it is a new administration in the sense that you know same general principles, a lot of new people. Perhaps now that victory has been achieved, they will be willing to actually lead and we can have some real governing being we can have some real governing done.
00:49:56
Speaker
If that's not the case, if our first couple of attempts at bipartisanship fail, if it's thrown in our face and nothing's done, or if we get even screwed over, we can't continue to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt, and we have to shift into damage control, essentially. And I don't want that to be forgotten, because as much as we do need to work together, if they're not willing to work with us at all, there's no possibility for cooperation there.
00:50:26
Speaker
So, yep, I agree, I agree. um Okay, so let's start wrapping this up. um I'm looking at the timer, we've been doing this for a while now, and Simone, give me your, we're gonna we're gonna ask each other predictions. So I wanna get, starting with Simone, what's your prediction for where you see TikTok over the next, say, 90 days? What do you think's gonna happen? Well, I mean, I think,
00:50:53
Speaker
to Tomorrow on Monday, when Trump gets into office, he said multiple times that he's going to sign an executive order to extend the Trump ban for 90 days. And I think in those 90 days, they're either going to work out some kind of deal where someone purchases TikTok or whatever these concerns with the data, privacy, all of that, that will maybe, we'll get some more transparency from ByteDance on that maybe, and it it'll be enough for the U.S. government to be okay with it. But I think it'll be here to stay, but there will be some kind of change. I don't know which way that will go. Okay. All right. That's a good prediction. Joe, give us a prediction of your own. Anything it could be about TikTok, it could be about something else over the next 90 days regarding the new administration.
00:51:44
Speaker
Well, I predict that the ah press secretary for the Trump administration is going to have some long nights. oh But with respect to TikTok, I would mostly echo what Simone said. I still have my reservations about how it may shift ah with being beholden to the Trump administration. but as as I said earlier, TikTok has a lot of power for good and ill and I think that it still can very easily go towards good. So it's here to stay and I hope that the political forces in the country do not bend it unnecessarily. I'd also like to add this isn't really so much as a prediction but a
00:52:29
Speaker
bemoaning the limitations of time. um I'm not going to get a chance to talk as much about the second topic I wanted to talk about, but I will mention very briefly ah the field of video generative AI. And this will be for next episode, but the field of generative AI video specifically, it's made leaps and bounds that I didn't even think were possible this quickly.
00:52:51
Speaker
um I'm sure a lot of us have seen footage of generated video AI where it's very shifting and deformed, but still more or less on point.
00:53:03
Speaker
There's models now. In fact, funnily enough, one, it's a Chinese developed open source model called DeepSeek that is able to make video footage that it has perhaps less than 10 total minor distortions. There's none of this shifting skin or anything. And there are short clips and they do require a lot of processing power for even those short clips, but I bring this up in the context in the context of political influence because we've reached a point where it is technically possible to create full custom video, not like editing existing footage, but full custom video that has minor artifacts. Artifacts, too, could be fixed with a reasonable amount of post-editing. And in another year or two, those artifacts might not even be there. so
00:53:53
Speaker
Come 2026 midterms, this is a longer form prediction. Reality will be what anyone makes it yeah in terms of anything you're not seeing in front of you with your own eyes. you know I think that scares a lot of people. Things have been changing so rapidly, especially with regard to technology.
Tech Advancements and Societal Implications
00:54:10
Speaker
I know that Sadia, my wife, she's she's very concerned with how fast technology has been evolving and changing. And for people who aren't as tech savvy as, say, the three of us,
00:54:28
Speaker
that's That's very worrisome and frustrating. And when you mention how the ability to to generate these videos using AI and you know generating them in time for the midterm elections in two years, oh my goodness, that's yeah that's pretty remarkable.
00:54:46
Speaker
A couple of things I'm concerned about with regard to the next 90 days.
Economic Concerns Under Trump
00:54:54
Speaker
ah What Trump is able to accomplish that he promised he would accomplish. ah I'm concerned with, you know, how he plans to do that if he does. So as an example, ah immigration. I read something this morning that beginning, I think tomorrow morning or the day after might be Tuesday morning.
00:55:16
Speaker
I think Tuesday morning, if what you're talking about is what I've read. Right, right. About starting, was it Chicago where he's going to start deporting immigrants? I believe he's got something like there will be 200 or 100 to 200 agents that will be engaging in mass deportations in Chicago. All right. Let me pose ah an issue to you, a situation. So we've got these massive wildfires in the Los Angeles area.
00:55:42
Speaker
Over 12,000 structures, homes, businesses, buildings, have been destroyed. And hundreds of thousands, if not a million or so people, have been displaced. Undocumented immigrants are a very large part of the construction industry throughout the United States, particularly in Southern California, but throughout the US. I see them myself when I go into the city, when I take the train and the subway. When I get on that subway, I see a lot of undocumented immigrants, people who I assume are undocumented immigrants, who appear to be from Central and South America with their construction boots on. You can tear the you can tell they do some sort of, they're in the the building trades. They've got their tools with them riding the subway, going to building sites.
00:56:29
Speaker
This is going to really impact negatively the construction industry. Who's going to start rebuilding these houses in the Los Angeles area when the time comes to rebuild?
00:56:41
Speaker
So, I want to know how the hell he plans on addressing that. Also, tariffs. Think about this, again, concerning so ah so Southern California and the Los Angeles area. So, you're building these houses. Let's say you manage to find ah enough people to start building these these structures that were destroyed.
00:57:02
Speaker
Well, what about the appliances that are made in China? You're going to implement a huge tariff. You're going to increase the the prices of these appliances. That's going to make the appliances skyrocket. the The cost of these appliances that are going to be placed in these homes, that's going to cause the homes to increase in value. Homes are already the the median value of a home in the United States is over $400,000. 20 years ago, it was $200,000.
00:57:29
Speaker
Think about that. In 20 years, the median home price has doubled. Young folks your age are having difficulty being able to afford to buy their starter homes.
00:57:41
Speaker
That's not right. That is not right. Something has to happen. So what do we plan to do about that? So those issues are a couple of things I want to see. I want to see what Trump's going to do about that over the next 90 days or so. How is he going to affect um you know the economy with regard to construction, with regard to tariffs and appliances, and the cost of other things that we get from China? How is that going to affect people's pocketbooks?
00:58:07
Speaker
I definitely i will i want to hear what his response is to both of those issues, especially tariffs, because we tariffs aren't just ah appliances, they're related to agriculture, they're related to construction in terms of gaining resources. you know Canada, our fast ally and current trade war adversary, apparently.
00:58:29
Speaker
they provide a significant amount of fertilizer components right that from what I understand are used heavily in both the soybean and corn crops because a lot of farmers will alternate between those two crops. And and to help maintain soil quality, they'll use these fertilizing ah components that Canada largely provides us. If we slap a 25% tariff on them, they're just not going to sell us that.
00:58:53
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I think you're right. I think that is another big concern. Those are are issues we can talk about next time.
Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
00:59:01
Speaker
In the meantime, that's all we've got for today. I want to thank Joseph and Simone, my wonderful daughter and wonderful son, for joining me. This is, what the hell did we call this again?
00:59:18
Speaker
Obviously, we have a very strong attachment today. Bridging the Gap is the current name. Bridging the Gap, our first episode, which I managed to hit the record button for, so that's good. And we'll be posting that very soon. And stay tuned, guys, for the next episode in about a week. All right. Adios. Thanks very much.