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Episode 4: No Fast Way - Jonathan Normolle, Founder of NextGen Ventures and Star of Netflix's 'Owning Manhattan'
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In this insightful episode, Phil Fersht sits down with Jonathan Normolle, a Danish-born luxury real estate agent, founder of NextGen Ventures, and star of Netflix's 'Owning Manhattan'. They delve into the evolving landscape of real estate, exploring how technology and social media are reshaping industry and the critical role of authentic human connections in today's tech-driven world.
Jonathan shares his unique journey, emphasizing the importance of networking and leveraging technology to build a successful career in real estate. He offers a candid look at the challenges facing Gen Z in the housing market, highlighting the widening gap between those who can afford property and those who cannot. The conversation also covers the innovative trend of converting corporate real estate into residential spaces post-pandemic, providing insights into how this could impact housing affordability in major cities like New York.
As the dialogue unfolds, Jonathan and Phil discuss the potential crisis of authenticity in an era dominated by AI and automation. They stress the need for genuine relationships and the power of being authentic as a means to stand out in a crowded digital landscape. The episode wraps up with Jonathan offering valuable advice to young professionals on forging their own paths while maintaining credibility and trust.
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Transcript
Introduction and Focus on Disruptors
00:00:12
Speaker
You're listening to From the Horse's Mouth, intrepid conversations with Phil First. Ready to meet the disruptors who are guiding us to the new great utopia by reshaping our world and pushing past corporate spin for honest conversations about the future impact of current and emerging
00:00:38
Speaker
it's great to be with everyone today ah mine's f first a gentleman called Jonathan Normala, who's a Danish-born luxury real estate agent. He may be familiar with his appearance and that context is Aberdeen Manhattan.
Impact of Technology on Real Estate
00:00:54
Speaker
I'd love to get his views today on the impact of technology and social media on real estate and the real estate market in general. It'd be really interesting to hear about. Welcome, Jonathan. Good to have you here. What's significant in real estate at the moment, particularly as you look at how you built your career and your business? What do you think is the number one issue? That's a lot. First of all, thank you for having me. So I appreciate it. First and foremost, I want to say real estate for me is I've used it as a springboard. I've utilized it as something where I can get into other businesses and get into other industries and learn other industries. And it's been a great, great springboard for doing such. So for me, that was really the main intent of coming in as an agent, right? Ultimately, in my eyes, at least the way I intended to do real estate, if you're still an agent, after a while, you're doing something wrong. If you're meeting a lot of different people from different paths of life, right, in different industries, in my case, that's sort of the route where we've taken different industries on and different people, but we can get to that. I think what's wrong with the current real estate market and the current real estate, the overall sort of agent job is that the agent are really agents and they never really were supposed
Evolution Beyond Traditional Real Estate
00:02:08
Speaker
to be. If you take a house or a home in Manhattan today, and I say this to most of my sellers, I say, I can give you, if you go for a regular real estate agent today, I can just give you the contact for a great photographer and you can put it on street easy or silo yourself and you can hire someone to open your door and you don't need to do anything else right if they're not doing anything that's involving selling or marketing the product other than really putting it on a platform like if you were selling something on priceless just for home and it's sort of crazy in a sense where you're buying a luxury product in manhattan for millions of dollars but you're it. It's like if you walked into a store with a Lamborghini, a Fiat, and a BMW, all mixed in one, and then you took the average price on those. And even though you're buying the Lamborghini, they're getting the same service, the same product, and the same thing that all these other, if you're buying Fiat. So for me, there's a lot of stuff wrong. And these aren't necessarily individuals who know the city in which they live in or have connections for buyers. If you can't sell their home, in my opinion, without these tools, then you're going to be obsolete very, very quickly, especially with all the new technology that's coming up.
Innovative Marketing Strategies
00:03:21
Speaker
So most of mine, for example, I don't do street easy or anything of that nature. We simply don't need to. So I think that's the main problem today is that if you took away StreetEasy or Zillow, 99% of these people would be out of business. They're talking to somebody who's bought three properties through Zillow now. So I'm completely with you. I don't know what I've done without it. And I like it as well. You get a pretty decent guide on pricing. So how have you leveraged technology and social media to build your own very successful real estate career? So for me, first of all, I came from a nightlife scene sort of aspect of New York. I moved here when I was 15. I was lucky enough to have a girlfriend at the time that allowed me to get into a very niche group of people. But getting into that niche group of people also allowed me to meet a lot of different individuals and stay in with real estate. So, for example, the AI that we're using is Core AI. And the owner and founder of that is Raj Kornru. And he's a good client of mine and a good friend of mine as well. So we have some layups in terms of that, right? Where I'm lucky that I have those connections and we can get these kind of products. But one of the main ones is the CRM that we have. And then it's the marketing that we can do instead of, and this is marketing that no one else really does because they just put it on streeties. But what we would do is we, first of all, we would go in and create 10 different variations of what's in your home so that you have a virtual staging that might not fit to your liking, let's say. Then at least we're going to try 10 other versions, right? And hopefully those fit better. But those 10 versions, what we can do with the AI and do a search engine for, we can actually go in and see the result of whom this would resonate with before going on spending $10,000 on it and seeing which ad that performed the best. Now, most people don't do paid ads and they don't do ads in general for real estate because you can't. You can't target real estate and you can't legally go in and say, I want to hit this demographic or hit this area or hit this income stream. And you can't, but you can, if you're not promoting the property and you're promoting yourself. So in that sense, you can do it, right? You can't go in and say, Hey, buy this home, but I can make a video in the home saying, click this link. And they come into my site and that home is then promoted that way. But you cannot promote the correct, like the direct product and say, buy it here, but you can promote yourself. So that's sort of the loophole that we found. But in that aspect of it, the only reason why I can do it and I can use that technology is because of my network, right? Otherwise, the cost of such a tool wouldn't add up to the commissions in which a real estate agent would make. A lot of the services that we do, it's simply because I have that network. Interesting. So how networking is the given ever? I got to say, networking is key. Without it, I don't see how you can survive my clock and all those different businesses. I think with Cloud AI and all of those different services that are coming out, anything that is a hospitality-based service where it's sort of hands-on and creating the best service and product for you as a customer, that's going to be obsolete quickly when it comes to, if you don't have anything to offer outside of ultimate service and hospitality, because that will replace pretty quickly. So these agents, I believe that that will be obsolete. Imagine if you were buying on Cillo and you could do it through something you can trust and an agent that's not commission hungry and maybe have their own benefits in mind. I would choose that every time. And they're definitely going to give me the right price. They're going to maybe negotiate better based on tactics online. And that is learning from a bunch of different sources. So unless you have a network as a person in these industries, it's going to be hard to survive in general, I think. And with social media, I'm 50-50 on that, whether or not that helps. I think social media is, it's another business and it's a home, right? I think people on the street stop me and mainly from social media and this show and everything else, but they're not buying homes for me, you know? And those people aren't really the ones that are really buying the house or contacting your body but it helps in pitching meaning oh i have this following base it helps getting clients but it doesn't sell it's i mean people would well want a good real estate contact they want a good financial advisor a very good friend of mine's just retrained to become a financial advisor. And I said to him, my friend, I don't have time to do my research into mutual funds. I really don't. You can do a really good job by me. The same I think with real estate as well. It's just a good deal. It's just another good deal I need? So I think the power of building connections is huge and more than ever really than culture. So let's get into the housing market itself. I was very lucky as a young professional back in the 90s. I was on $30,000 a year and I bought an apartment in London for 100 grand. A very often apartment with a two grand down payment. I was very lucky. And that was my ladder and that built up, you know, while I built a successful company in a business, I've made more money through my personal real estate investments than I actually have through my business. I look at the Gen Z's today, you know, and I now feel I have to take a personal interest in their ability to get housing because it's important to them they don't have the luck that i had when i was their age that i that property was cheaper mortgages were more available um how many gen z's being impacted with the state of real estate today how do you see this changing in the next
Financial Challenges for Gen Z
00:09:23
Speaker
few years? Sadly, I don't really see it changing. And the impact is huge. I think the gap from people who can afford it and people who cannot afford it has become unfillable, if that makes sense. There's people my age and younger who make tens of, if not hundreds of millions from YouTube and content and just crazy things these days, all of which is not overnight, right? So I don't, I'm not trying to knock any of those things. Those are all hard and they're very dedicated people. But on the other hand of that, there is a college graduate who went to very prestigious colleges and just comes out of school and they can't find a job. And if they do, it's something that's say 50 to 80k and they still have to really possibly get that job and on that salary in New York City it's not possible for you to really buy a home and living on its own it's going to cost you that amount right and you need to live somewhere the rent is going to cost you around 50 60k and then you need to eat and you need to live right and then all of a sudden you don't have any. I think a good saying is you need, I think it's 160,000 in New York just to live okay. So that's becoming increasingly more expensive, right? I don't necessarily see a solution for that. I got to be honest in terms of how you can solve it. I think that the school, yeah, I'm not sure how that one would be solved, but I do see in terms of my clients, it's either celebrities or whom I just mentioned who are earning a lot of money or it is older individuals and people who have been in a job, let's say 30 and above. But in the 20s, there's really almost none where it's just like a regular job it's either their parent or it's celebrities other than that in new york it's it's very very difficult i might have had like three or so uh most of them which are on wall street or they're trading something in crypto um but honestly it's very hard right my wife for example uh murta ragged bone and, she's been there for years, I think. And I think she was making, I mean, around that amount. Right. And she went to college, she did all of those things and, um, has a good title. You know, I think it's, uh, head of sales in, in something, something. Um, she would have even not knowing that, but, um, when she had it, that's what it was. I know it was a prestigious thing to have, but I don't like a salary job for me i've never had but i don't think in new york that those are something you can achieve within 20 at least and i'm sure it's the same elsewhere right um but new york is special it feels like that gap from when i moved here when i was 15 and then meeting opportunities and getting success that is getting larger and larger there's 30 year olds where their parents are still paying for everything right majority really and maybe not everything but help them a lot financially yeah yeah the world's shifted but coming off pandemic so much of corporate real estate is just all being used anymore or it's just being used very sparingly. At first there, we're going to start to see corporate properties start to be converted into apartments and things like that in places like New York.
Transforming Corporate Spaces
00:12:38
Speaker
Because most of the Gen Zs today, they want to go to New York City or big successful cities, they want to be centrally located, they're probably going to want to rent. Are you starting to see a lot of previously corporate real estate being converted now? Yes, for sure. And we're actually doing five of them here in the financial district. So in the financial district, 76% of the corporate sort of buildings down in the financial district is Wall Street and all of that stuff. So offices are everywhere, right? And there's big, big, big buildings. So 76% of those buildings have filed for re-solding, meaning they're filed for residential. It takes a while. It takes about five years to do, and it's difficult to do as well because these big corporate buildings with a platform of, let's say, 50,000, 40,000 feet on each floor only get so much light, right? When it's a residential unit, what do you do with that middle of 10,000 square feet where there's absolutely no light? So it's hard to go in and design these different places and convert them where they're usable and livable in a way that people will pay for them. Now in New York, you'll pay for anything, even if it's dark. But there's a lot of the buildings down here. It's a good example of where it's already been done. 25th Street, it's a Mani Casa building, but that used to be an old bank. bank and And that's that's already already been been done. done and There's there's 101 one in Fult one fulton street that's already been done there all of them which are old banks well they've done a good job and but once that hits we're gonna see a huge influx of it down here right because the buildings down here compared to everywhere else that have happened which is always everywhere in new york you know soho was once industrial tribe, all of those areas that was already sown for us at each level. Down here in the financial district in Fida, since there's such a huge amount of these buildings and the buildings are way, way bigger, that might, or not might, it will influence the market like crazy because that you're opening up to be, I mean, I don't know how many, tens of thousands thousands of units that will be but that will be over the next 5 to 10 years but you'll see a huge huge increase there and probably 70% will be rentals and you think you'll see rental costs start to go down rentals become affordable so it almost has to right I mean it's New York and it's impossible you know because once you get such an influx there's going to be a couple hundred thousand people that want to come and then all of a sudden those are filled and then boom prices are where they are i don't think rents has really gone down um at all in new york really after well from the pandemic but in general and 2016 they were a little higher but that's about it they've already they've always been pretty steady in New York City when it comes to the rental price a one-bedroom here is you're looking around four thousand five thousand I believe now London though is is similar no to those prices oh yeah very similar. I mean, I'm out from Denmark, Copenhagen originally, like you were saying, and there, it's actually, it's getting to be expensive there as well. I think around $2,000, $3,000. Not as expensive as London and New York, but I hope that the abilities that we're involved with here in the financial district, where we have some stay over design and we have some stay over layout, which is why I don't know what to do with that middle there. We've had all types of ideas because it's up to us to make it functional. Anything from glass that's hollowed out in the entire building to reflect light into the units and all kinds of crazy ideas. Someone suggested a bird in the middle with a bird inside, but that got shut down. But I'd hope that would be sort of a new metropolitan down here in the financial district. Stores are starting to open. C4 District, Howard Hughes Corporation, and Larry Silverstein both invested around $12 billion in that district. So you're seeing shopping, you're seeing stores starting to come to life in those storefronts, where really it's a ghost town. It really was. Most of the offices are empty, and even the street-level storefronts, they're closed. Let's get a bit into, to finish up, technology and human connection.
Maintaining Authenticity in a Digital World
00:17:06
Speaker
As we've seen AI and automation continue to proliferate, are we going to face a crisis of authenticity? How do you maintain genuine relationships in this tech-driven environment that we're in? Is it going to get harder now? Yeah, I think so for sure. I think anything you see online, you should take with a grain of salt, right? And not only because it's, if it's content, I use social media like a glass. I don't need a filter. I think anyone that's made anything for you to see and more and more, if it's individuals of some sort of wealth, they'll have a whole team of people that are going through every single post and every single thing that you share, meaning it's been thought about how you will resonate with it. How will a certain market and a certain target resonate with this post? And what can we say? What can we do? It's altered so much before it goes down to you as the person. And when it comes down to you as the person, it's ultimately a product of something that is going to make them money instead of a authentic and individual thought that's just shared which social media I think is what the intent of it was so I try to be as authentic as possible and also because when I show up in person people know who I am already because I've been authentic online so they're not in shock like oh he is not who he said he was. So for me, it's fantastic. You know, I show up and they've already have some idea of who I am. So I think staying authentic is the only way, staying yourself and being an individual is actually the only way to stick out these days and be authentic. It's a very simple thing to do. But unfortunately, it's also one of those things if you're yourself and people don't like it, unfortunately, that's shut down very quickly. So I think that thought is what scares a lot of people. But AI and people that are phenomenal at utilizing the platforms of social media, they're taking over, right? And once they can use the tools of AI, it's not just individuals who are picking up AI and boosting their own level. These are individuals who are already extremely good at social media and marketing. Once they can utilize these AI tools, there might be like a downfall actually of social media. I think it might be too crowded with all of that. In terms of being in person and going out and networking, I still think that is the number one thing to do. That is how you meet the few. I still think Instagram is for the masses and social media is for the masses. I don't think that is a place where you sell quality. I do think it's quantity and that will remain my opinion. Well, I have to confess I have been buying things from Instagram commercials, but I think it's because it's a safe environment and you're like, oh, they're trying to sell something. But this has been really, really helpful just to get a greater understanding of what's going on in New York.
Advice for Young Entrepreneurs
00:20:01
Speaker
And maybe you could leave us with one piece of advice, maybe for young, ambitious folks who can do something similar to you in the world. What would your advice be? And maybe one thing they could do to change their approach to the world or business. Yeah, I think if you're trying to get into the world of business, remember that there's not only one path. You can create the path that you want to take. But even if you're taking another path and you're not taking this traditional route, you have to remember that you need to learn credibility on that path and you need trust and you need reliability on that journey. So if you're choosing not to take the path that everyone else is taking, remember those goals that you still need to take. And there's no fast way to do it. There's no course that's step-by-step. Go out and create a character. Yeah. That would be my best advice. Yeah. No shortcuts. Just got to grind it out and empathize with that very much. Thank you so much. I'm Jonathan. I'm really excited to have you share this interview with the world. We actually have a conference coming up in Manhattan in December. I'll ping you about maybe you can tell your thanks and meet some of our clients and friends and I hope you'll be a breath of fresh air. I'll give you some information on that. It's been really nice to meet you today likewise thank you for having me I really appreciate it alright thank you thank you
00:21:36
Speaker
for tuning in to from the horse's map intrepid conversations with Phil first. Remember to follow Phil on LinkedIn and subscribe and like on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite platform for no-nonsense takes on the intricate dance between technology, business and ideological systems. Got something to add to the discussion? Let's have it. Drop us a line at fromthehorsesmouth at hfsresearch dot.com or connect with Phil on LinkedIn.