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Where Sounders sit as they hit the Leagues Cup break
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The Sounders hit the Leagues Cup break in better shape than they were in last year, but also feeling as if things could have been a lot better. Jeremiah and Aaron give their assessment and what they want to see over the final 10 games.
After the break, they explain why finishing fourth in the Leagues Cup is actually the worst possible outcome.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sounders Legacy
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaughnessy.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's go. What save by Frye.
MLS Cup Victory Highlights
00:00:18
Speaker
The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winning. Here comes Ruiz Dias through the middle to crowd it for Seattle.
00:00:29
Speaker
And now they truly can start the celebrations. It's the Sounders MLS Cup. Nico Lodero leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Seattle, Sounders, it's got built.
00:00:52
Speaker
This feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny dog. Nice work on your little yacht yat thing. And Portland can't say shit.
Roster Decisions and Critiques
00:01:01
Speaker
know, what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't?
00:01:06
Speaker
Ever since Southert Hart wrote a commentary that we didn't take over coming seriously. Go, not Seattle!
Sponsorship by Full Pull Wines
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adientes, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network, sponsored by Full Pool Wines, Hacks and Ferments, and our subscribers.
Current Standing and Playoff Prospects
00:01:51
Speaker
We're recording on Tuesday, July 29th, 2025. your host, Jeremiah Shan.
00:01:56
Speaker
Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our producer, Lick It!, and The Sounders are coming off a 2-2 tie with Atlanta United in which the Sounders scored their seventh latest goal ever and gave up the second latest latest goal they've ever allowed.
00:02:11
Speaker
ah We'll certainly talk about the game, but I mainly want to talk about it in the context of where it leaves the Sounders as they enter the League's Cup break. Let's just do a little overview here. The Sounders are 10-6-8.
00:02:24
Speaker
fourth in the West, but there is close to eighth as they are third. They've gotten improved offense over last year, but are allowing goals at a much higher rate added up Aaron. And how are you feeling right now with about 10 games left to go in the regular season?
00:02:40
Speaker
ah It's a, it's a tough question.
Player Performance and Injuries
00:02:43
Speaker
um i think that if you had told me, at the beginning of the season that Jordan Morris was going to play 400 minutes ah leading up to the league's cup break. And that Pedro de la Vega was going to three goals and Jesus for air was going to have three goals.
00:03:00
Speaker
and the Sounders were somehow much better offensively and in fourth place, I would have been thrilled. I would have been really confused, but I would have been thrilled. It doesn't quite seem to math, but yeah, yeah you're right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:03:13
Speaker
It's, it's very strange. I don't think anybody saw, you know, an eight goal season from Danny Masovsky. Danny Masovsky. Yeah. but ah But yeah, so I mean, on the one hand, I think that considering what they've been up against in in regards to injuries, i mean, look at all the games. Yamar missed. Look at the fact that we're starting Roldan at center back for a couple of games. Jackson Reagan missed a bunch of games. Jackson Reagan missed a bunch of games. um So I do think that Stefan Fry has missed a bunch of games. yeah Jao Paolo has missed a bunch of games. We could go on, but I'm sorry I cut you off.
00:03:47
Speaker
No, I mean, it's it's true. i it's I keep forgetting about guys who have missed a bunch of games. And it is, i don't think it can be overstated how well the depth has held up this year.
00:04:00
Speaker
To have the... Paul Areola has missed the whole season. He was one of the biggest off-season acquisitions. Anyway. Yeah. And, and so, yeah, I, I do think it's pretty remarkable what they've been able to do with all of those problems.
Potential Standings and Fan Frustrations
00:04:14
Speaker
However, um the, the expectations of this team are what they are. and, I think, you know, it's, I feel okay going into the stretch. I mean, I think that it is conceivable that they could finish as high as second. I don't think it's likely, but I think it's conceivable.
00:04:32
Speaker
um There are eight points out of first place with the game in hand. I mean, they've made up gaps bigger than that in in less time before. So I think they're pretty well positioned. But if the question is, do I think they're going to make a run like that?
00:04:46
Speaker
Do I think that, you know, they, they've got, um that this is a team with elite potential. I'm not sure that I do. um, I'm not sure what they can conceivably do during this window, short of you know faith healing Jordan Morris' shoulder, to get me to a place where I think that they they're capable of of going on that kind of run.
00:05:11
Speaker
I think that they're set up well for the playoffs still. I think when push comes to shove, Brian Schmetzer can set up this team to be extremely difficult to play against come playoff time. and And I think that they've got enough firepower that they could...
00:05:23
Speaker
certainly making an LLS cup run, but in terms of playing down the stretch, like an elite team, i just, I'm not sure. And it's, it's frustrating to be in that position.
00:05:35
Speaker
Well, there was an interesting conversation it on blue sky this last week that was started by contribute center at heart contributor, Brian McKay. And he was talking kind of talking about how he was shocked at how frustrated some parts of the fan base are. I'll be honest. I'm, I was,
00:05:52
Speaker
those people are not necessarily on center at heart. So I don't want to create like a, like a straw man argument here. But if I were to give a good faith argument to the idea that there are a lot of fans frustrated, i think there's some reason why, like whether or not you're pulling out your hair, like I, yeah like whatever the centers are coming off of frustrating to, to tie where they drop points. And I think you can probably make a credible argument that there are at least six points that they've left on the table this year.
00:06:21
Speaker
where are there are games that, you know, you won't, you don't need to come up with a fantastical way that they just, that they should have claimed all three points. They dropped points very late against Charlotte at home in the season opener. They dropped points after leading three zero at home to Colorado. That, and that that game is also still somewhat fresh our memory. And then of course they dropped two points, which I think on balance, you could argue that they maybe didn't deserve all three points against Atlanta, but they were in position to get those three points. If not for,
00:06:52
Speaker
a absolute thunderstrike from 25 yards on the last literal last play of the game. And so in that way, yeah I think you can sort of talk yourself into, they should have had those three points.
00:07:05
Speaker
And, you know, you give them six more points, the table looks not dramatically different, but the outlook looks very different where they would be tied for third place and they'd only be two points out of first place.
00:07:17
Speaker
And I don't know if that is a more accurate reflection of how they've actually played this year than what the the table says. According to expected points, I think the Sounders may actually be slightly overperforming. Yeah.
00:07:30
Speaker
What expected points say they should be at. But it's you know But I do think you're right. If you give all the caveats of the injuries and whatever else, it's hard to be too frustrated with where they are.
00:07:43
Speaker
But at the same time, it also feels like the West is there for the taking and they're probably not going to take it. Yeah. And that is frustrating.
Injury Management and Criticisms
00:07:51
Speaker
And I think also you can be frustrated with dropping those points in those games. The Colorado game, I'm still pissed off about and everybody else should be. It's yeah, that's it's utterly ridiculous. Yeah. The the Atlanta game, I'm on honestly, and we'll get into that later, but I'm honestly not too bothered with with the way that one turned out.
00:08:10
Speaker
But but I still think I mean, if you, you know, drop two points on the literal last kick of the game, I think it's, it's totally valid to be frustrated. yeah and they've just been a frustrating team at times this year. I mean, we, we've talked a lot about this, but they, they've made mental mistakes that are pretty baffling. They've had bad red cards. They've given up bad penalties.
00:08:29
Speaker
Um, but you know, they've had some games where they probably should not walked out. It should have walked out of there with three points where they did. And, uh, you know, they've been much, much better at home this year. They've been a much more interesting, fun team to watch, I think by most people's standards this year.
00:08:45
Speaker
So it really has been a mixed bag. And and I think that I think that the injuries and everything like that is always for me, it is an explanation rather than an excuse and until, and until the team is doing everything they can within their power to put the best team they can on the field and they are not doing that.
00:09:08
Speaker
And so I think until they're doing that, until they're using the kind of, until they're, you know, spending resources to fill the holes on the team, um, they I think it's fair to say they're not doing all they can to be as good as they can.
00:09:22
Speaker
And so I don't really care about the injuries as an excuse. I think that's totally valid. and And that's more or less how I feel, even though from an analytical standpoint of how have the players done, how has Brian Schmetzer done with what he has to work with, I'm actually pretty happy with with the outcome. So i'm I'm disappointed with the club's effort.
00:09:41
Speaker
I'm happy with the team's effort, if that makes sense. it It does make sense. And it's been, it and i sir I think it it fairly encapsulates sort of the frustrating nature of this team.
00:09:53
Speaker
And I, another way I'm kind of thinking about it right now is, am I more satisfied with where the centers are now than where they were at this time last year? And I, I think I am because last year around this time, they were sort of just coming into form and they were,
00:10:10
Speaker
doing it mostly through suffocating defense. And they played a lot of, you know, I think we had a lot of discussions last year about how, what's boring soccer. And to me, boring soccer was not winning.
00:10:22
Speaker
And if you're winning games, it doesn't really, you sort of like can live it. Like I didn't, I wasn't really bothered by the one zero wins, but I do think just from a pure aesthetics perspective, this season has been a lot more, the games, the individual games have been a lot more fun to watch, even if the results are sort of in the aggregate, pretty similar to what they were last year.
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think down the stretch, this team was a lot of fun last year. But I definitely think over the balance of the season, um the Sounders have been more fun. And there, you know, there was a time earlier in the season when they were still kind of struggling to sort goals, but they were still more fun to watch and than they were struggling to score goals last season.
00:11:02
Speaker
And you could tell there was a ah plan of attack. They understood maybe what their shortcomings had been last season. And you could tell that they wanted to go forward. They want do his hack. They wanted to score.
00:11:13
Speaker
it just wasn't, wasn't happening. And to me, that's a lot different than the way it felt last year, where it just felt like they were just trying to get a goal because they knew they could hang on in every game. um But they weren't trying that hard to get a goal because they knew they were going to have trouble coming back. So um I do think it's, you know, up to this point in the season, it's been a lot more fun this year.
00:11:34
Speaker
um But also I think I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think at this point in the season last year, they were still out of a playoff position. um and you know, we were kind of wondering whether or not was going to be the end of Brian Spencer era. Like, I think there were still a lot of questions about that kind of stuff at this, this point last season, maybe things had turned around a little bit by now. I really don't remember.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm actually looking that up because I'm curious how they were how they were at this point last year. so let's see We're at July, we'll call it July 28th.
00:12:09
Speaker
So the Sounders were sitting in seventh last year. they were They had played one more game. They basically had two more losses. No, two more losses and and and two more losses. They had played one more game and they had two more losses.
00:12:24
Speaker
But they were also one better on goal difference. Yeah. Yeah. Which is pretty funny. How many goals? They had scored 34 goals at that. this So they had scored four fewer goals in one more game. So there, I mean, it's a, you know, it's, it's not an, it's, it's not a totally different.
00:12:45
Speaker
i mean, it's a similar, it's similar. It's a similar place to live where last year, ah But anyway, it is kind of funny to look back on that. they were also They were also closer to being out of the playoff. They were they were only six points up on the 10th place team.
00:13:01
Speaker
So they were a little, and they were they were farther out of the the lead as well. Like they were 12 points out of first. So it was, you know, I think you can argue pretty credibly that they're in a so significantly better place right now than they were last year at this time of year.
00:13:19
Speaker
That said, it's it's just been it's been been a funny
Improved Offense Post-Club World Cup
00:13:22
Speaker
season. And it like you said, it's it's been a lot of injuries. It's been a lot of you know, Tim Foss wrote about this in postgame pacifications this week, which I hope people are enjoying getting a different angle on that. He and I have been switching off more often.
00:13:38
Speaker
But, ah you know, he he wrote about how this has sort of been a season of almost like they've almost had some really sort of signature performances. I think I don't know that Atlanta, this would not have been a signature performance, but I think it would have been. It's sort of one of the things one of the characteristics of this team that I think that they have shown is that there is a resiliency to them that they have been able to put up with a lot of.
00:14:06
Speaker
a lot of setbacks and they managed to keep moving forward. Like they had a couple really bad games this year. They had that three zero loss to San Diego where they look like they totally got outclassed.
00:14:17
Speaker
And then they had the three zero loss to Vancouver where the wheels just totally came off. And it looked like the season might really spiral a bit from there. And instead, cause they were, that was the game right before club world cup.
00:14:30
Speaker
And of course what they did is they sort of regrouped and they had know, they didn't win any, didn't get any points in the club cup, but they were credible. And I think that they sort of showed that they could hang with good teams and they've sort and I think they've at least credibly,
00:14:45
Speaker
ridden some of the momentum from that. And they're, you know, they're three Oh and three, they haven't lost since the club world cup. They're scoring a bunch more since the club world cup, you know, before the club world cup, they were actually behind last year's pace and scoring and last year's pace and scoring wasn't even that good.
00:15:00
Speaker
So like these last six games, I think have been, have been some somewhat significant steps forward. And there's been some positive play, you know, play of specific players has i think emerged as viable and so there are definitely things you can point to as as progressing forward and yet here we are and it's like god this feels like it could be more than it is yeah yeah i think that's a i think that's a fair way to feel and i think that um it
00:15:34
Speaker
we talked about, you know, the caveat of Jordan Morris missing a bunch of time specifically, because I think coming into the season, we felt like, all right, if anything happens to Jordan Morris, we're screwed.
00:15:45
Speaker
We're in trouble. And, and, ah But that hasn't ended up being the case. Danny Masovsky has been great. He's been elite by by per 90 numbers. He's been elite at striker this year.
00:15:56
Speaker
So yes, they haven't had Jordan Morris and that has hurt them. I think I definitely think this team is better if they have Jordan Morris, but they're getting good production from that spot from Danny. 12 goals from your number nine spot at this point in the season is not elite production, but it's certainly...
00:16:16
Speaker
you know, if, if Jordan Morris had 12 goals right now and Danny Masofsky had zero, I don't think anyone would be losing their mind over it. No, I think, I think, I think people would be annoyed at Danny Masofsky.
00:16:29
Speaker
Right. That's not, you know, that's not too much different than, than last year. So, um and so they, they have gotten production from that spot and they've still struggled and, you know, they've gotten production from Albert Rusnak. He has 10 goals this year.
00:16:43
Speaker
um They haven't gotten the production they've needed elsewhere. um And so I think, you know, that that's that's definitely frustrating for people. um And the good news is that Jesus Ferreira has been, I think, really cool.
00:16:59
Speaker
pretty good for a while now. I mean, since, since the club world cup, at least um he's, he's been, I think, mean, just, he's looked a lot more comfortable.
Key Performances and Future Outlook
00:17:10
Speaker
He's looked like he understands his role a lot better.
00:17:12
Speaker
And then Pedro de la Vega, obviously the last couple of games has been really good. And so I think that, that, I think it's reasonable to expect a little bit of regression from Danny Mazovsky. Although I don't, I don't know how that much because his underlying numbers are so good. I mean, I think he's actually still underperforming his XG by a decent amount.
00:17:30
Speaker
It depends on where you, it depends on where you look. If you look at like a FB ref has him almost exactly on his XG. Whereas ASA American soccer analysis has him underperforming by a couple of goals.
00:17:46
Speaker
But point being the underlying numbers suggest that what he's doing production wise is not, right is not just some hot streak that he is consistently getting himself into dangerous positions and he's finishing at a rate that you would expect.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think, I mean, that's, that's backed up by what I see when he plays, i you know, I think that he, his movement is great. Um, I said, i think it was in the discord. It might've been a blue sky, but I said that I thought he had the best softball movement on the team and some people were pretty incredulous about that, but I stand by that. I think that he has some of the best softball movement that I've ever seen from a Sounders forward.
00:18:24
Speaker
i think that, you know, and so I think that he's plenty capable of, of continuing to put up good production at that position. And if the, if the development we've seen from Pedro de la Vega over the last few games is real, you're,
00:18:38
Speaker
And Hazes Ferrer can continue to contribute Albert Rusnak can continue to contribute, especially given that the strength of the schedule down the stretch is not super strong. And and that was another discussion, I think, um that I saw in Blue Sky, you know, about the fact that, yes, the Sounders have been much better over the past six games. The strength of the schedule hasn't been as strong. Well, the converse of that is that the the strength of the schedule in the first chunk of the season was actually quite hard. I think that...
00:19:05
Speaker
Through the first half of the season, the Sounders had far and away played the most difficult schedule. And I think the rest of the way, they've got it a little easier. So if they can continue to perform pretty well against these bad to average teams, they're going to have a better second half of the season than they had first half of the season. And that'll be reflected at the end of the year. So there are plenty of reasons for optimism, I think, um especially if if joe Apollo can get back healthy and, you know, they can get some semblance of ah stability in in the back at, you know, center back and and it left back as well.
00:19:42
Speaker
um I think, you know, this, this team can be really good, but they've just been so inconsistent in attack that it could all fall apart at any moment. And i don't think anybody would be too shocked.
00:19:55
Speaker
Well, let me ask you this. What do you think is sort of the key to the the next, the the final phase of the regular season? And I suppose we could include Leaks Cup in that phase. i don't think we're really doing that. But over the last this last stretch of games, what to is either the key players or the key, what what what elements of the game are you going to be looking at?
00:20:24
Speaker
I think if Pedro de la Vega can show consistently 80% what he showed in the last two games, Um, that's going to be massive.
00:20:36
Speaker
I mean, cause he, in the last two games, he has looked like not only worthy of a DP spot, but like a franchise cornerstone level player to me. I think he's just been completely outstanding and and just exactly the kind of player. I think we've all, we're hoping we were getting in the first place and have been hoping to see, um he's, he's been incredible.
00:20:57
Speaker
So if he can play 80% of that level the rest of the way, that's a that's a damn good player that you haven't had before who can create goals, who can score goals himself, who can give all sorts of fits to defenses, who gives the Sounders that transitional threat that they haven't had with Jordan being out.
00:21:17
Speaker
And I think that's going to be massive. And if he regresses and goes back to being the player he was earlier this season, which is not a terrible player, but certainly not a player living up to, you know, that DP tag, then that's going to be a problem and you're going to really need to have Jesus Ferreira step up. you're going to have to have Albert Rosnack continue to produce. You're going to have to have Danny Masovsky continue to produce and you're going to have to hope your defense gets it together because it's going to be a lot more like the stretch run last year than, you know, what we're kind of hoping the stretch run this year looks like. So,
00:21:48
Speaker
I think it really does just hinge on and that's a ton of pressure for the kid, but I think it really does hinge on Pedro because you're not getting Jordan Morris back. You know, for a long time, it was this is great. And imagine what it's going to be like when Jordan gets back. Well, Jordan's Jordan's not coming back. This is this is what we've got unless the Sounders, you know, managed land another attacking signing.
00:22:11
Speaker
which they may well do. um But even then, depending on the caliber of signing, it's going to be who knows whether they'll be able to contribute that much this year anyway. Right. Yeah, i ah you know I'll just throw out some some numbers here just because I think it sometimes illustrates what Pedro De La Vega has done.
00:22:30
Speaker
you know He's only on three goals and three primary assists. But the thing is, he's only played 900 minutes in MLS play. If you break that down on a per 90 basis, he's averaging 0.59 goals and non-penalty goals and primary assists per 90 minutes.
00:22:47
Speaker
That's not maybe elite. but it's really damn good. Like that is that solid production. I mean, that's better than a goal or an assist every, ah with every other game.
00:22:59
Speaker
And that's basically... But I think that's the... If you had told me that this is what he would produce, ah like if he would produce 0.59-ish goals and assists per 90 this year, I think I would have absolutely taken that at the start of the year.
00:23:13
Speaker
and And obviously a lot of that is he's got three... He's got two goals and an assist in the last two games. And so that's beefing up those numbers. But it's just so sort of a reminder. He hasn't played that much. Like he's been healthy.
00:23:26
Speaker
And like that you can... and maybe that's on him that he hasn't done enough to, to warrant more playing time. But I think what he's doing right now is showing that, yeah, this is a player who should be on the field and he's going to get, I mean, it's, it's hard to imagine him, you know, he might not start every league's cup game, but I mean, i I would be, I think he's probably the first choice left midfielder. And, and I suppose you can argue that's unfair to,
00:23:54
Speaker
Paul Rothrock, but Rothrock hasn't yeah like, I don't want to, i don't want to have it come off that I'm bad mounting Rothrock. He's a good player. I really want him on this team.
00:24:05
Speaker
I hope he gets paid this off season, but really he is a complimentary piece. He is a useful piece to have on the roster. If Paul Rothrock is your starting winger, he's that is probably not a great sign.
00:24:21
Speaker
Like yeah his, his best, you know, his hundredth percentile performance is a lot lower than Pedro de la Vega's hundredth percentile performance. Yeah. and you know, and you can kind of go down the list there.
00:24:37
Speaker
Rothrock, you know, what you're going to get, But Pedro de la Vega, I think he showed in these games what he can do when he's when he's like cooking. And but i just one of the things I just love about him, don't think, I have said this before, but man, that guy kicks the ball so hard.
00:24:55
Speaker
He does. He really does. Yeah. And, and he's like, I love watching him kick the ball hard. Critically. He is kicking the ball hard, ah but low these days, which is, yes which is very, it's a, it's a big development. and It is.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah. But, but I just, to your point about Pedro and Rothrock and their relative ceilings, Paul Rothrock was producing in terms of goals and assists, but if you looked at their underlying numbers, there're like their per 90 numbers, they were producing at about the same clip in terms of XG and G+, plus and everything.
00:25:28
Speaker
And that was Pedro underperforming. ah Just with these last two games, Pedro's underlying numbers are, are up there and he's now produced at about the same level as, as Paul has the season in terms of the overall. So I, um, i mean, they both have three goals, um,
00:25:49
Speaker
Pedro has two too fewer assists, I guess. So Paul has produced a little more, but Paul's paid 500 more minutes. Yeah, 500 more minutes. So they're producing in about the same clip. um Pedro's underlying numbers are much better. And it's just, it's hard for me to believe.
00:26:05
Speaker
and And like you, I want to stress, I'm not... I'm not criticizing Paul Rothrock or minimizing his contributions or his abilities, but it's hard for me to believe that there are still people who don't understand that Pedro has a much higher ceiling. and um I, I it's, I just, I really hope that those people have changed the last couple of weeks. Yeah.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's, you know, I just, yeah that's the most satisfying thing, honestly, about these last two games is there is, there was sort of this building chorus of, okay, I hear what you're saying about La Vega's skills. And I hear what you're saying. Like, if you're telling me he looks great in training, I'm willing to believe you, but at the end of the day, I'd like to see it.
00:26:52
Speaker
And And give me some evidence that he's actually producing. And this is sort of the evidence that he, what he looks like now can even maintain it. That's the big question. He's going to have to, he's going to have to maintain this.
00:27:04
Speaker
And, you know, he, he can't, you know, he can't just go into a three goal stint where he's not said, or a three game stint where he's just not producing any danger. He's got to be able to, you know, getting, get himself into dangerous spots, get on the ball,
00:27:21
Speaker
be goal dangerous, setting up teammates. You know, he's got to keep doing the stuff that he's doing, but it's good to see that he's shown that sign, you know, he, that he's shown it against MLS opponents.
00:27:33
Speaker
Cause I kept pointing out that this is, you you look at his all comp numbers and he looked great, ah but it's fair to say, okay, but he had three goals against Antigua.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And by the way, if you look at his all comp numbers, his all comp numbers are actually pretty solid. and ah And it's golden four assists. I mean, it is true that you play who you put in front of you and it's scoring goals is hard no matter who you're playing, but it's also fair to say,
00:28:01
Speaker
I, yeah, I don't, I don't care too much about that. You know, i think that's reasonable. I think if a player is, it's one of those things where it's like a player is producing in, in league games or against higher level competition, nobody's going to get mad if you say, yeah, they scored x number of goals and include those goals when they're not producing. And you say, well, if you look at their full season, right. Six and all competitions, it's like, you know, if somebody scores a hat trick in the open cup against the,
00:28:26
Speaker
Califf Sacramento. Yeah. yeah sacramento yeah um Yeah. It's, it's, it's a totally valid criticism. I think when a player isn't producing and and the primary competitions.
00:28:37
Speaker
Right. Exactly. All right. Well, I think that's probably a good place to to call this.
Leagues Cup and Champions Cup Goals
00:28:43
Speaker
We're going to come back. we're We are going to talk a little bit about leagues cup kind of get, I want to get your perspective on maybe we'll even power rank ah how we want the Sounders to do in leagues cup.
00:28:54
Speaker
or what the the ideal outcomes would for a Leagues Cup will be. ah But you are listening to Nos Adietes.
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Speaker
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00:30:55
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adiates. So Aaron and I are going to talk about Leagues Cup. And i think the Avenue we want to use to talk about this as leagues cup is, is starting today, by the way, and don't know if you know this, Aaron, but there have been five games in leagues cup.
00:31:13
Speaker
It looks like and MLS is going to win one. They're going to only win one game in a shootout. the The only game they've won today is in a shootout. I, maybe, you know, the answer to this, but do you know who the one team that, so San Diego LAFC, LAFC,
00:31:29
Speaker
Columbus crew, CF Montreal. And i think there was one other game.
00:31:36
Speaker
i want, um um maybe, you know, the, and you probably know the answer to this, but I still think it's funny to ask you. Do you know, do you know who do you know what the results were today, Aaron? Yeah. I do because you told me right before we started recording. Oh, okay. And then Houston was the other team. Oh, wait, there's seven games today. Jesus. That's a lot.
00:31:56
Speaker
That is a lot. All right. So here's this. ah Maybe we won't play this game. I'll just tell you. So there are seven, six games, six games today, Montreal, Columbus, New York city, FC, Houston, LAFC, and San Diego.
00:32:12
Speaker
Only one MLS team won today.
00:32:16
Speaker
It was CF Montreal, who is, i believe, the worst team in and MLS right now. I believe that is correct. It looks like ah LAFC still has a chance to win in penalties. you're Oh, this you're right. I forgot it went to penalties.
00:32:31
Speaker
yeah But they're playing Mazatlan. So how impressive is that, really? Yeah. um Just kidding. I don't actually know if Mazatlan... San Diego got hounded by Pachuca. and Tigris pounded Houston.
00:32:43
Speaker
Puebla, who I believe is one of the worst teams in Liga Mechis right now, destroyed NYCFC. Toluca beat Columbus in a shootout. And Montreal beat Lyon, who is like a solidly mid-table, maybe upper mid-table Liga Mechis team.
00:32:59
Speaker
but the hell of this great illustrated What the hell is Sports Illustrated Stadium? Sorry. Oh, that's the Red Bull Arena. They renamed it. Oh, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah, Sports Illustrated now is basically just a branding exercise, if you didn't know. Yeah, it's really depressing.
00:33:15
Speaker
And so the company that owns them apparently so compelled to... like i mean, that is a bizarre way to spend money, but... It is, and it's also funny that Red Bull would be selling naming rights to their stadium since they are advertisement. It does seem a little counterintuitive. I agree with you there. Anyway, yeah, no, that's wild.
00:33:36
Speaker
um well That's very funny. it It's pretty funny, I thought. All right. So different strokes.
00:33:47
Speaker
Leagues Cup. So Leagues Cup, here we are. ah I think a fun way to talk about this is to talk about how rank the five things, five outcomes that we'd like to see from the Sounders.
00:34:00
Speaker
We're kind of cheating a little bit in this, but I think it's to make a point. Number five, what is the absolute worst outcome, Aaron? Let's start at the bottom.
00:34:11
Speaker
Well, maybe maybe, actually, I take it back. This might be more fun to start at the top because I think starting at the top is is a little bit more of a compelling buildup to find out what you think the worst outcome is. So number one, okay, the winning it is, we we like whatever. we We want the Sounders to win things.
00:34:28
Speaker
We are suckers for a trophy. yeah Yeah, I mean, i my thing is, and this will become obvious as we go along. My thing is, I want to qualify for the Champions Cup.
00:34:40
Speaker
This is the best chance they have right now. And if you're going to qualify for the Champions Cup, finish in the top three winning, it's best outcome. You get a trophy. It's nice to win things. Yeah. um You know, you get the bragging rights. um It's been a while since Sounders have won a trophy. So it has. Yeah. that's I mean, it hasn't really. It's been what, three years? Like, that's not.
00:34:59
Speaker
But by our standards, you're right. But by our standards, you know, it's, it's, it's been a while. So um yeah, winning it. Definitely. Definitely the best so outcome.
00:35:10
Speaker
So don't let anyone tell you that no study at this is poo-pooing the league's cup because there you are. I still am. I still am. I know I ah will go on the record and say, you want to win. ah but Okay.
00:35:24
Speaker
Number two, what is the second best outcome for the Sounders? Second best outcome, I think, is finishing third, ah which sounds dumb, but this is my logic.
00:35:36
Speaker
but You lose in a final. You end on a down note. It's a bummer to lose in a final. You were very close to winning silverware and and you fell short. you get third you get an exciting third place game with actual stakes and that's that's pretty rare right like it's yeah it's not the olympics and soccer most of the time you're not getting a bronze medal but here you get a champions cup birth and that's that's cool that's exciting that's that's what we're hoping for um you get to go out on a high note uh and uh yeah you know you don't get a trophy but
00:36:09
Speaker
the last game is fun. You get to enjoy a game with stakes and, and then get back to, you get a champions cup spot. Yeah. And that's, that's the most important thing. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you ah hundred percent on that.
00:36:23
Speaker
Where, what's number three, what's number three on the It's, I guess this is a little, this is a downer. This is obvious. If being third is the second best, what's number What's number three?
00:36:36
Speaker
Being second is is third best because you lose and that sucks. I mean, it's it's the converse of everything we just said, right? Like, but you get the Champions Cup spot. That's the most important thing, but it's a bummer. You don't, you know, you you lose out, you lose a final and and that sucks.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, i would I would agree with you there. All right. So this is where it gets maybe a little bit more interesting. What's number four for you? Well, number four is...
00:37:04
Speaker
just not getting out of the ah group. It's not a group, oh but the phase, getting phased out. That's in phase one. Yeah. If, if you are not going to qualify for champions cup, I want this thing over and done with as soon as possible.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ideally like if we had a crystal ball in it or a genie or whatever and they say i can't tell you what's going to happen but i can tell you if you don't win your first game you are no there's no way you're making it to the champions cup um i would go for it in the first game and then play as many defiance kids as i could and games two and three that that would be ideal I won't quite, and I'll add this caveat. i I think the Sounders have a deep enough roster that I want to see different combinations. Like, they've got enough guys. That's true. Yeah, that's fair. There's enough first-team players that, like, Georgie Manungu can't get on the field.
00:38:00
Speaker
I want to see that guy play 180 minutes of the last two games if the Sounders can't, like, i don't mind that at all. I'll add this. i wouldn't I would love to see the Sounders go, if if they're not going to win this thing, this, like,
00:38:15
Speaker
going two and one and not getting out of the first phase would be fine with me. Like I would actually consider that kind of, kind of fine. Like I want to see them maintain their momentum.
00:38:27
Speaker
I want to see, I don't want to, I don't want to see them like just crap the bed against league. and ey's I don't, I don't ever enjoy watching them not do well. So like, I don't want this to like, I think back to 2023 when they just got housed in both leagues cup games, that wasn't fun. That didn't feel good.
00:38:47
Speaker
I don't need to do that again. Last year was, was even though they didn't get out of the, you know, and I guess you could argue that, you know, maybe we're, we're not being totally fair here, but last year was a ah fun. That was that it was a fun kind of run, but they won two knockout games.
00:39:03
Speaker
was a different tournament, different structure. So, you know, whatever. But I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to not see them just suck. That said, and I guess this is kind of where we have caveats here.
00:39:17
Speaker
Essentially, well, what's what's number five? What's the worst? I won't even call it number five. What's the worst outcome, Aaron? The worst outcome is finishing fourth. but shoot four so so um Because you play all those games, you're probably going to go be going really hard in the, in the last few, because you know, you've got that chance to get, get silverware and champions cup.
00:39:40
Speaker
um You probably had like, you know, Christian and Obed are probably playing a ton of minutes. And yeah it's it's, I think the worst outcome. And then to get from that worst outcome the,
00:39:56
Speaker
Finishing, you know getting phased out, just add a game to getting phased out and go down the list. And then, right. That's how you get to the end. Every ah extra game they play that doesn't lead to champions cup makes it worse for me.
Challenges of Tournament Balancing
00:40:11
Speaker
And I will say one of the things that was different about like like part of the reason I wouldn't necessarily say that last year was an example of ah worst case scenario is because they took a long break from league play. Like there was not leagues cup was not going on concurrently with league play at any point last year. Whereas this year, once you get out of phase one, you're now playing midweek games in leagues cup and playing league games on the weekend.
00:40:38
Speaker
So it's a different structure in that way. And so there is a little bit more of a direct sort of physical cost to advancing every round. And you're sort of rolling the dice every, you know, i mean, you only, there's only three knockout rounds, which I guess limits the, the potential for disaster a little bit, but you know, it's a, it is a, it, it changes the equation a little bit.
00:41:05
Speaker
Whereas last year it's like, you may as well win until, you you know, you may as well win as long as you can go because you're just going to be having downtime. You're just going to be having, you know, you weren't balancing league play at the same time.
00:41:21
Speaker
So that's what makes it a little bit different this year. And, and I agree with you. Finishing fourth is the worst. That is the worst outcome. You don't, you, you play three extra games. You have to play in a third place game, which everyone agrees is kind of a silly thing to have to do.
00:41:39
Speaker
And of course you don't get the champions cup birth. And it's like, I guess you get to say you won some games, but who cares ultimately? Like if you don't have anything to show for it and you, especially if you've been, you know, I suppose it's maybe it's different. If you were able to get to fourth place while using your reserves and you're able to effectively balance league play, maybe that's a slightly different thing. But ah by the way, we're in we're round 11 of the, no, we're in round 12.
00:42:09
Speaker
of the shootout right now. Good, good heavens. That sounds, that sounds exciting. Almost. I mean, it's kind of, we just had the goalkeepers kick and that was fun. Yeah.
00:42:23
Speaker
That's, that's always fun. That's always nice. You always love that. Oh, looks like Mazatlan won. Oh, okay. Well, I guess you're ahead of me then. Oh, well, sorry. Sorry to spoil that.
00:42:37
Speaker
Also, don't listen to this if you were to watch that game later. Right. Yeah. If you were going to back and rewatch League's Cup on replay. It is funny. literally alert Yeah. The the score bug is faster than real time. It's like on TV. It's pretty funny.
00:42:53
Speaker
That's pretty funny. Yeah. All right. Well, I think we, we settled it. So the Sounders got to go win this thing. If you're going if you're going to, if you're going to win game, if they like, I guess basically if they beat Cruz Azul, you better go win this whole thing.
00:43:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, pretty pretty much. I mean, that' that's the toughest game. I think Cruz Azul is still the best team in CONCACAF. I don't... you know how Best team and in the in North America, I think, in the region.
00:43:21
Speaker
CONCACAF, I guess that's what CONCACAF is. Yeah. and And, you know, I think, like, I don't... I don't think that Botafogo is that much better than them. And Botafogo is really good.
00:43:32
Speaker
So yeah. oh You know, if, if you can beat Cruz Azul, I think you've got to feel like you can beat the other teams you're up against. um And if you can beat those guys, you can beat anybody else in competition and and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, would be, it would be nice. And I think similar to to club world cup, maybe these guys could use the confidence boost that, Hey, like you can hang with these teams, but,
00:43:56
Speaker
win the whole thing if you're going to do it. And if you're not going to win the whole thing, finish third, just, you know, yeah. Yeah. And well, so I will add while we're here, this, these results, I suppose are good for the Sounders chances of advancement because they are basically no, no MLS team got three points today.
00:44:17
Speaker
Montreal was the only team that even got two points. Everyone else got one or zero. So yeah, you know I guess that ah that's more evidence that if they can beat Cruiser Zul, they're in great position.
00:44:30
Speaker
ah But I think that's that's what we got, Aaron. That's what we got. um We'll see if there's some transfer. Maybe maybe by recording today, we'll force some transfer news to happen. Remember we used to be able to do that?
00:44:42
Speaker
Oh, man, those were the days. That was nice. Yeah, that was really nice. um Those were the days. Oh, not to keep hard put on this, but Belonga is the guy that missed the penalty. I know, I just saw it.
00:44:53
Speaker
And he sky'd it. That makes it so much nicer. um all right. I like Weeks Cup again. um Yeah, that would be that would be nice. i would love to see the Sounders spend money.
00:45:05
Speaker
um i will say the I'll ah close with this note. From the people that I've been talking to, they ah usually get a pretty good sense of how confident they are that they're going to get someone. And they seem reasonably confident that they're going sign someone. Either this Noah Ohio guy who is the Dutch striker that has been most directly linked to the Sounders or someone else.
Potential Signings and Market Moves
00:45:32
Speaker
So I'm going to be, hopefully, but it would be nice if they got this done by the end of League's Cup, I think. Yeah, it would be nice if they if they had... i'm I'm assuming whoever they signed is probably going be a striker.
00:45:45
Speaker
So it would be nice if they had them on the team with enough time to contribute this season. um Like, yeah i contribute this season. Yeah. Osase looked great against Atlanta. scored the goal.
00:45:58
Speaker
i like him a lot as a player. but I like him a lot better as the third striker than the backup striker. So, and I don't like his, this rare getting minutes at striker either. So yeah, it'd be nice to get that wrapped up.
00:46:14
Speaker
Definitely before the end league's cup, it'd be nice. Like you said, you get it wrapped up by tomorrow. um And I'll tell you, Jeremiah, I would not sneeze at another defensive midfielder either. um You know, the Sounders just signed standard Brunel, but JP is still a few weeks out at least. Right. You said, I think today, maybe yeah four weeks. Yeah.
00:46:33
Speaker
yeah Yeah. So that's, that's tough. Cause that's, you know,
00:46:39
Speaker
that's just a lot of minutes for Christian and and Obed to have to struggle through. and And even if he's back in a month, like how healthy is he going to be? How, how fresh is he going to be? How capable of contributing? Is he going to be right away?
00:46:51
Speaker
so I still, that's for me still a priority for them. So can you imagine if they assign two players in this window? Can you imagine? Be pretty unbelievable. Can you imagine? Well, that's a good note to end on, I think, on that hopeful note of maybe maybe signing two players. Who knows?
00:47:09
Speaker
um But well you know I'll take one. One foreign signing. That's what I'm going to set the bar at. That's what we need to be reasonably satisfied here. yeah Everyone else is signing. Vancouver Whitecaps are signing Thomas Mueller on TAM deals. and Yeah.
00:47:25
Speaker
Inter-Miami is signing DePaul on... um a tam deal one of those is a valid tam deal one of them is of the you know imagine not to get too too distracted here but if if lafc had signed thomas muller on a tam we would have been losing our minds i would have been pretty annoyed about that um but i mean it's not like they had great luck with their old guy last time so i actually i think muller is
00:47:57
Speaker
the perfect signing for Vancouver because he's, he's Tam. So he's not taking a D D B spot and he doesn't have to be, you know, an MVP caliber player to, to justify a spot.
00:48:11
Speaker
He fits really well into their team. And he's also like, yeah, he's an old guy, but his game was never about being the most athletic guy you're ever going to see. Right. So I think he's really good signing for them and, you know, could be good for them, I guess.
00:48:24
Speaker
I don't, i don't have anything against Vancouver. I know. I just have such a hard time getting worked up over Vancouver. yeah All right. And good for, you know, good for them. this They're calling it the biggest signing in team history. So.
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, Ryan Gold's a better player, but. Yeah. But. at this at this At this point in his career. Right. I agree. don't nobody get Nobody get mad at me.
00:48:46
Speaker
and All right. Well, let's let's call it there. ah Thank you to our sponsor, Full Pull Wines and Hacks and Ferments. Thank you to Lickit for producing this thing. course, ah thank you to all of you for continuing to subscribe. We are now heading into August. August is the most important month in sound at heart for Center at Heart subscribers. This is his the time of year where basically...
00:49:11
Speaker
the biggest chunk of our subscribers are asked to renew their subscriptions. So I hope you will do that. If you really want to be awesome, you can upgrade your membership. That would be even more awesome.
00:49:22
Speaker
But, you know things are are going well, but they can never be going too well in this world of chat GPT and everything else that is sucking the life out of real people doing real journalism. And I like to think that's what we do here.
00:49:37
Speaker
So please consider... upgrading your membership. If you don't, I hope you at least will maintain your membership. And with all that said, I'm Jeremiah Shine, signing off for Aaron Campo.
00:49:49
Speaker
This is No Study At Dis, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. Remember, you'll never get alone.
00:50:22
Speaker
I expect the LAFC who is motivated ah to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that that they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really ruin the party.
00:50:38
Speaker
i feel a lot better than Bob.