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Liverpool Legend Mark Lawrenson On Heysel Disaster, Roma European Cup Final Glory, Federico Chiesa & Much More (Ep. 462)
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Carlo Garganese and Nima Tavallaey interview Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson who played in two (in)famous European Cup finals for the club in 1984 against Roma and in 1985 versus Juventus. Mark recalls his memories of beating Roma at the Stadio Olimpico on penalties, and also the horrors of the Heysel Disaster a year later when 39 Juventus fans were killed in one of football’s biggest tragedies. Mark also discusses other topics such as the genius of Liam Brady, an offer to join Juventus, Liverpool’s new signing Federico Chiesa and new Arsenal defender Riccardo Calafiori.
Mark Lawrenson was speaking on behalf of Sports Casting.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. I'm Carlo Garganese, joined as always by Nima Tavalli. Today, Nima and myself are delighted to be joined by Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenceon, who was one of the best defenders of his generation and a key part of the legendary Liverpool team.
00:00:25
Speaker
of the 1980s and later a very successful broadcaster as well. Mark, thank you so much for joining us. Let's get straight into it. Hi Mark, this is Nima, thanks again for joining us.
1984 European Cup Final Victory
00:00:38
Speaker
So two famous games your Liverpool team played against Italian teams both were in the European Cup final. Let's start with the 1984 European Cup final against Roma in Rome, which you guys won on penalties. What are your best memories of beating that great Roma team?
00:00:55
Speaker
The best memories on the night will say was a massive, excuse my friends, piss up that we had after after win because obviously we were second favorite playing at home. um I think there was massive banners around the around the ground that they'd already won, which obviously turned us on greatly.
00:01:12
Speaker
oh um and the The whole experience of ah ah that, of the two or three days, was just magnificent, to be honest with you. And after the game, I mean, seven hills of Rome and all that kind of thing. And we went up in and our bus, in the coach, I should say, and we were in someone's house, I think it was, on one of the, obviously, the seven things of Rome, and we just got slaughtered.
00:01:39
Speaker
um ah is that the because I saw one report talking about a big party in a mafia-like mansion. is is Is that the one you're referring to? um wearing Any drive up? I know all like that all the time until eventually you come to the top. yeah and I just remember we were sponsored by Crown Paint.
00:01:56
Speaker
And the that the CEO from Crown Paints just said, you know, bloody, bloody, blah, great win, all those kinds of things. And he said, he said, you can drink until you drop. And he said, and that can be the best champagne in the world if you want. So ah we managed to drink it. Yeah, that was great memories. Was that one of the best games of your career? Because I've watched that game. That was actually the day I was born, the night I was born, that night, by the way, Mark. Was that one of your best performances? Jesus, you're making me feel old. the night you um Yeah, because I think the the thing about it was that we were playing away, weren't we? And ah everything was were stacked against us. I mean, Joe Fagan was great in the lunchtime of the game. um I think he'd had to think your way for it, been on saying, no celebrations if you score and all that kind of stuff. And Joe just went, he said, okay, no celebrations if we score. He said, but you know what, when we score the third one, you can celebrate all night long if you want. So um yeah, it was it was a, um
00:02:57
Speaker
was It was a great, great day. I mean, we all have fantastic memories of it as well, so. That's
Heysel Disaster Experience
00:03:02
Speaker
good. Well, not so good memories a year later, of course, when you played again in the final against Juventus on one of football's darkest days that the hay sale disaster when 39 fans were lost their lives. I mean, you experienced the horrors of that night probably more than any others because you were taken to hospital with an injured shoulder and you kind of witnessed all the but death and the carnage around you, didn't you? Yeah, I did.
00:03:27
Speaker
I did. Yeah, and ay I say I was whisked off to the hospital, and excuse me, my shoulder came out again so um a the yeah ah guy in the hospital put it back in, um he knocked me out to put it back in to be fair, and when I woke up,
00:03:45
Speaker
and and I counted this, and I was in a ward on my own, and there were, including my own, there was 24 beds, and at the bottom of my bed was a was an army guy with the biggest gun I've ever seen in my life. And and of course, I wasn't great under anesthetic anyway, and when ah when I woke up, it was like, what the hell was this? And the army guy, for want of a better description, didn't speak any English. Anyway, he managed to get a nurse to come in, and she was kind of saying,
00:04:13
Speaker
you understand what's happened, bloody, bloody, blah, all those kind of things. Yes, all those kind of things. And then, probably, and this could only have happened in the 80s, in the morning, obviously obviously, they said, oh, you can go, excuse me, and I can go go back and join the team before you fly off. And I said, well, I would, but they've taken my clothes off, maybe took all my kit off.
00:04:34
Speaker
and my boots. And I just added like a small pair of knickers for want of a better description. And that and I just said, I've got no clothes. And they said, Oh, no, it's okay. ah Mr. Evans is going to come and and bring you some clothes. Obviously, Roy Evans, and he turned up with my my then girlfriend at the time.
00:04:52
Speaker
and he came into the room and he had a tracksuit and I went, Evo, that's a Liverpool tracksuit. We've got to go through the hospital and after and the you know obviously the dead and the dying and and families were there and all sorts of things like that. And he said, Mark, he said, don't worry, we'll we'll turn it inside out. Honestly, you couldn't write it, could you? And we in the end, we were in one of the the lifts, obviously, that only the staff could go in. So of course we didn't walk into anybody. Yeah that's an incredible story I mean looking back now I mean it seems crazy looking back now I mean as players how did you feel being told that you had to go out and play that game? Well we went mad at the ah the chief of police and he said you're playing and we said no we're not we're not playing
00:05:41
Speaker
And then he said, look, he said, I wouldn't be playing. He said, and I understand, um excuse me, why you don't want to play. He said, but I'm responsible for everybody. If I now go and make an announcement on the Tanoi and say that the game's off, he said, I would be responsible for everything that happened. And so many people were obviously extremely upset. um And one thing and another that it was actually probably the right reason to call it off, but it,
00:06:09
Speaker
Just didn't feel like a football game, did it? It was it was it was mad. It was absolutely, totally mad.
Serie A Opportunity with Ian Rush
00:06:16
Speaker
A number of your fellow liverpool you know fellow Liverpool players, they all moved to the Serie A. Saunas moved to Sampdoria, Rush, Juve. Did you ever get any offers to play in the Serie A, and would you like to play there? The last question that I loved to have played, did i get yes, I did get an offer, I knew nothing about it.
00:06:37
Speaker
So very briefly, we got we got back home and I got called into the preseason, called into the chief execs office and he said we're going to give you a new contract. I'd only done about six months of a four year one.
00:06:50
Speaker
And I never really thought anything about it. I thought, oh, they must think I'm brilliant. How good is this? Anyway, and mechanic know so I did that. It wasn't difficult in terms of the money and everything. it was It was very, very good. And then about three months into the season, we were going to a game somewhere. I can't remember what it was. And i one of about the back room staff said, they wanted you, you know. And I said, what are you about? He said, they wanted you to go with Rushy and went, what?
00:07:17
Speaker
He said, yeah, we wanted you to go to your Ventus with Rushy. And he said, something well, would you have gone? And I So obviously, obviously, that that never really happened and didn't have an agent or anything. It wasn't like their agent would say, well, hold on a minute. Let's have a sniff around, see if anybody else wants him. But um quite clever from Liverpool's point of view.
Playing with Liam Brady for Ireland
00:07:40
Speaker
Another serial legend that you played with, Liam Brady, you played together for the Ireland national team. um Just how special was he? Liam liam could play walk in the ball. Even in those days, you'd you'd never get a ball get the ball off him. He was a superb passer.
00:07:58
Speaker
And, you know, left footed and left-sided players in those days, there weren't that many, and and they already stuck out anyway, but with with Liam, like the game was was so easy for him. um His only problem and in terms of playing for Ireland was that that, obviously, Jack Charlton didn't really have a place for him in the team, which was unfortunate, but ah it was ah anyone who who played with Liam will tell you he was a top, top player. He played in two places, one here,
00:08:27
Speaker
In Italy? More than two. Juventus, Inter, Sampdoria, yeah. Ascoli, yeah. I mean, he's a legend in Serie A. Didn't he get shunted out ah um at the at the first one for um Platini? That's right, yeah. Yeah, he did, yeah. He won them the league. He scored the penalty that won them the league and then they they they they shunted him out. um Yeah, just as a way we're quickly, we're running out of time.
Kieza's Potential Impact at Liverpool
00:08:50
Speaker
So just a couple of very quick questions. Kieza to Liverpool. um ah What do you think? a Good signing for Liverpool?
00:08:57
Speaker
If he can stay fit, absolutely, but um he's injured now, isn't he? um I think he's had he's got a slight problem, apparently, yeah. Yeah, ahli yeah slight problem in inverted comm... Yeah, he's a player, he's quick, and if he can get his form back, most most definitely, and he put people under pressure for the team, which is good.
00:09:18
Speaker
And finally, Califuri, the Italian defender that joined Arsenal. Have you seen much of him? Do you do you like him? i've seen I've only seen him on the telly. um I mean, he's playing left-sided at the moment, I think, isn't he? Yeah. But, you know, you know with him, he'll get in the middle when one of the two of the lads are are injured and he'll probably stay there. No, I like him. I think he's very, very good. And they've done well there. with with We're taking him most definitely. That might be for Arsenal to win the league, you know.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. Good beer. I've got them winning the league anyway this
Career Highlights: Rapid-fire Q&A
00:09:52
Speaker
season. um um Just some quick, quiet questions before we finish off. Just a one word answer if you want. um Best ever teammate in your career. Hanson. Toughest ever opponent. Graham Sharp. best Best central defender in the world today. Oh, s Liverpool's best central defender as well.
00:10:17
Speaker
but dke i think yeah if you could sp any italian to play for liverpool other than kiea who would you sign is it baralo the midfield player yeah yeah yeah and so um And who do you think will win the Serie A this season? Inter, Milan, Juventus, Napoli or Choco in Atalanta?
00:10:36
Speaker
in in Nice, nice one. i in terista And finally, um the most important question I think we've asked you, pineapple on pizza, food heaven or food hell? um Food hell, because I just have pizza.
Closing and Upcoming Q&A Announcement
00:10:51
Speaker
Thank you. That's the right answer in my opinion. Brilliant. Thank you so much, Mark, for joining us. It was a great pleasure. um Everyone else will be back later in the week for the Q and&A pod. Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other. Ciao ciao.