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1995 - Waterworld
38 Plays2 years ago
Wherein your hosts explore the intersectional nuances of this landmark film. Discussions of feminism, class struggle, Marxism, late stage capitalism, colonial influences on our language and thought, fish leather, jet ski ballet, Jack Black's rise to fame, the truculence of Kevin Costner and more!
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Transcript
The Great Burrito Debate
00:00:21
Speaker
Being from San Diego, we like to think that we have this hot debate about burritos, but I don't think anyone else in the country really cares at all. We're so vehement that our burritos are the best burritos. Hot take people out there, which is mostly just our friends from San Diego. It's not really that good in San Diego.
00:00:42
Speaker
They're good. There's good places in San Diego, but there's more flavorful burritos out there. There are more flavorful burritos out there. However, for me, again, it comes down to style. And the San Diego style of burrito is the best burrito style.
00:01:03
Speaker
It definitely is up there. I definitely think it kind of beats the mission burrito of San Francisco, although that's got its place. And since I live there, I do have a fondness for it. But, you know, the Albuquerque breakfast burrito is really, really good. More flavorful, I would say, than what you typically get in San Diego. My thing is that the thing that I love about the San Diego burrito is the tortilla.
00:01:31
Speaker
the giant 14 inch super chewy flour tortilla. Like that is a specific kind of burrito wrapper, tortilla wrapper. Like, and it's, it is specific to the size. Like that chew doesn't come in any other sizes. It doesn't come in any other styles. I'm also not a beans and rice person in my burritos. I don't fucking like it. Doesn't be beans and rice go on the side.
00:02:01
Speaker
So like, there's a place here in Chicago that does have the San Diego style burrito.
00:02:10
Speaker
thing. They have the right tortilla, it's the right size, it's the right flavors. They have the red and green sauce, all of it, but they put rice and beans in the fucking burrito. And every time I go, I'm like, no rice and beans in the burrito. And they're like, you don't want any? And I was like, no, I just want meat, cheese, salsa. Like, what the fuck? I want just a log of meat, cheese, and salsa.
00:02:32
Speaker
And Trevin, he thinks that's insane. He's like, why would you get less stuff in your burrito? And I was like, because they don't belong in the burrito. That's right. That's right. Yeah, I tried to get the local place that does just like they just do it. They're like a rotisserie chicken sort of place right down the street. And they're like, yeah, do a burrito. And I was like, yeah, can you do a steak? I was like, oh, OK. And they're like french fries. I was like, OK, check this out.
00:03:00
Speaker
Put them inside the burrito. I had to say it like three times. California style burrito. I did it and it worked. It's so fucking good.
San Diego's Cultural Identity
00:03:11
Speaker
There's a place here in New York City, at least in Manhattan, there's a couple of locations called Summer Salt. It's like you can get everything and you can either get a mission style or a California style, which is really good. That rules. It's really funny people.
00:03:30
Speaker
People don't like to admit that they're from San Diego for some reason. They like to just rep SoCal and then like in their marketing and then they'll be like, yeah, we try burritos from from Oceanside down to TJ. That whole region, we're from SoCal. We do a SoCal burrito. It's like kind of weird, like maybe San Diego is too small. You want to know what it is? That's the verbiage for somersault. They're just will not admit that they're from San Diego. Here's what I think it is.
00:03:57
Speaker
I think that it's all those fucking North County people who got sick and tired of being told they're not from San Diego when they say they're from North County. Because every time, every fucking time I meet someone who says they're from San Diego, I'm like, oh, where are you from? Expecting them to say something like, oh, I'm from normal heights or like whatever. And they're like, oh, yeah, I'm from Poway or I'm from Escondido.
00:04:24
Speaker
Hot tip. That's not fucking San Diego. That's North County. You're not from San Diego, bro. Get fucked. I'm sorry, but you're from North County. It's a different place. Y'all had money. It is. I don't care. All of you grew up with a fucking car. Get fucked. You didn't have to figure out how to take three buses and a train to get to a show.
00:04:49
Speaker
I'm more willing to accept somebody saying they're from Santee as being from San Diego than I am willing to accept somebody from Escondido being from San Diego. I kind of think that there's, yeah, there's a cultural corridor from the, where the fucking San Diego river goes into the ocean. Yep. Right there. Yep. You know, uh, I'm going to say like a couple miles. Well, okay. From like, you know, a little bit from up to Claremont.
00:05:18
Speaker
down to south of the 94, to the 94, let's call it, and just straight back for 100 miles. That's San Diego. And the hilarious thing is that people from south of the city are like, oh yeah, I'm from Chula Vista, or I'm from National City. They don't fucking say they're from San Diego. That's right. It's because everybody knows that
00:05:39
Speaker
Nobody knows what the fuck Oceanside is. So they're like, oh, it's like when people. OK, it's like when people say that like bands used to say they were from Seattle, but they were actually from fucking across the like across the lake on the east side. Like nobody knows what Bellingham or something like that. What the fuck is that little town called? I don't even know. No, Bellingham is it.
00:06:03
Speaker
No, Bellevue. People don't know what Bellevue is, or what Tukwila is, or what fucking Renton is. But all these bros who grow up on the fucking southeast side of Seattle, they all are like, oh yeah, we're from Seattle. I'm like, no, you're fucking not. You went to high school in the suburbs.
00:06:28
Speaker
Get out of here, man. Get out of here. Some of the most famous bands from Seattle were not from Seattle. They were from outside of Seattle. But it's like the closest hub. So they just round up. But people from Oceanside are not from San Diego. They're closer to Orange County than they are to San Diego.
00:06:54
Speaker
They may as well just say they're from the OC.
San Diego's Backcountry and Wine
00:06:59
Speaker
Stylistically, culturally, class-wise, you're from Southern Orange County.
00:07:08
Speaker
Let's go, can fuck right off. Let's do another county. Another county? Yeah. Even Eastern Encinitas, you've ever get stuck driving around fucking Eastern Encinitas? Yeah, it sucks. It's just like PQ, it sucks. Yeah, it's just not cute. Of course, nobody was from Alpine, but Alpine was cool, but it was the San Diego.
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah, alpine's cool. I don't mind. I don't either. But I like the back country quite a lot, actually. I do, too. You know what was so sad is when the fires, what was it? The 2003 firestorm burned down the oak. Do you remember the old Oak Grove out there? There's a one main road that you drive into alpine the town on. And there was you drove through these crazy old growth oak trees.
00:08:01
Speaker
And like they all fucking burned down. And when I was like back in San Diego in 2004, we like took a drive out there and I was just like, this is the most depressing thing I've ever seen. Like my entire childhood burned down, basically. Yeah. Yeah. That was a crazy one. That was kind of like the first one of the first big fires that I can remember in California. And it looks San Diego looked the way that New York looks right now, basically. Yeah. You're fine now. It's better.
00:08:29
Speaker
It's better. It's got like good air quality as of yesterday. That's nice. Yeah. Still an excuse for me not to go on a run, I would say. But I think that it's fine not to run in in the worst air quality in the world. It was really fucking bad. Well, I was in Cincinnati, like I said, to bring it full circle. So I it was smoggy there and I definitely woke up with my eyes were just crusty and itchy and terrible. Yeah.
00:09:03
Speaker
Um, yeah, the backcountry is nice. We started going to like wineries out there to belabor the belabor of the San Diego talk. Yeah. Like towards the end of our time, we like, uh, got to Ramona Alpine, Julian, like we're good fucking wineries out there. Got to say, yeah. Like, and like circling back to that, talk about that fire that we just mentioned. Uh, there's a sick winery where like this dude and his son, they're from England. They just bought like a wine, a vineyard that burned down. Wow.
00:09:22
Speaker
But so I got to miss it, which is kind of good.
00:09:31
Speaker
like, you know, 20 years ago, and they only grow fucking Italian varietals out there. And it's like an Italian villa fucking winery and vineyard out there. And I want to say Ramona. It's on the side of a hill. You can look over the valley. If you pull up in a if you pull up in a shitty car, they like take the piss and they're like making fun of you and they're asking you to get a better car. That's awesome. Yeah, they serve you like fun chips and stuff like crisps, I should say, because they're from England. But yeah, and it's really good fucking wine.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah, dude, I like fucking Italian varietals would thrive in those like Southern California hills. It's like like I immediately was like, oh, they're definitely growing Nebbiolo because like. Oh, yeah, for sure. Corolla like those are the those are the grapes like the the the regions that Nebbiolo is grown in in Italy is like
00:10:24
Speaker
so harsh on the vines. It's very commonly drought-ridden, but it has really nice diurnal shifts because they do have the marine layer that comes in. Same thing with San Diego. San Diego gets a really great marine layer, so you're getting super hot, dry air conditions, and then the nights often cool off enough to stop the ripening process.
Introduction to the Waterworld Episode
00:10:50
Speaker
The thing about
00:10:52
Speaker
The thing about Nebbiolo specifically is that it is a thinner skinned grape. It's not quite as thin skinned as Pinot Noir, but it's the reason why you can drink Nebbiolo when it's very young and you can drink it when it has a shit ton of age on it. Because when you have like, it's just like the phenolic compounds in these wines allow you to just enjoy them at any age of their life. I think the same thing is true of Pinot Noir.
00:11:22
Speaker
like you can drink a young Pinot and it's going to be really bright and fresh and like super easy to drink. Light in the glass, really floral, or you can like drink like, you know, a Domaine Norman and Conti that has been like in a bottle for 25 years and it's super rich and like super
00:11:44
Speaker
full bodied and it really like evolves and matures in the bottle. Nebbiolo is exactly the same way. It's like Brollo and Barbaresca are two of the most famous old aged wines in Italy for a reason, you know?
Cozumel Experience
00:12:00
Speaker
Right. Yeah, that's great. OK, real quick, before we get into this movie, let's hear about Mexico. Yeah, I went to Mexico, ironically, for the very first time in my life.
00:12:12
Speaker
Having grown up 16 miles from the nation of Mexico or whatever, however close it is, 20 miles. You never went down there when we were kids, really? Nope, I did not fuck around with that shit. Yeah, it's a little dodgy, for sure. I had so many friends who were far too young to be going to Tijuana during the fucking late 90s, early 2000s by themselves.
00:12:37
Speaker
It was too sketchy for me. And I also knew that if I got in any trouble and like there's no way anyone could bail me out, like no one in my family had any kind of money to get me out of a dangerous situation in Mexico. Like if I got caught
00:12:55
Speaker
with friends who were buying prescription pills and we got thrown in jail in Tijuana, there's no fucking hope for me. I would rot in a jail cell. You know what I mean? And I just didn't fuck around with it. And then by the time everybody was going down there for the sewer shows and shit, I had already left.
00:13:16
Speaker
Right, you know and so like I had no I had no experience with it at all and so we went to Cozumel and It was fucking awesome. I have never ever in my life stayed at a resort and
00:13:38
Speaker
And the trip was made possible by the fact that Treven's mom very generously wanted us to still go on a vacation even though our original family vacation plans had fallen apart because of work and all sorts of things.
00:13:56
Speaker
And so her and Trevin were secretly planning this trip without me knowing. And then I was like, oh yeah, I got this internship. And he was like, um, so like, when does it start? And I was like, I don't fucking know. They haven't sent me the information yet. He was like, um, okay. So didn't want to tell you, but kind of have to now, like, I need to know because I'm planning this trip. And I was like, what the fuck?
00:14:19
Speaker
Um, so yeah, we went to Cozumel and we stayed at the Eberostar Cozumel, which is an all inclusive. It's not adults only. It was like a family all inclusive, but it was fucking tight as hell. Like that sounds awesome. The room was super nice. Um, you know, we like had, it had two beds, which was kind of hilarious, but it actually ended up being great because there was one night
00:14:47
Speaker
where we had like been out in the sun all day, eaten a bunch of fucking food, had a bunch of drinks, and like we just didn't want to touch each other. And you can do that in a king bed, but you can't do that in like a full size. So we each just like slept in a bed and it was like really fucking nice.
00:15:04
Speaker
Oh, it's two full size beds. Yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah. And so like we were at first, we were like, this is stupid. And then we're like, but what if one of us gets sunburned? That was really the impetus for us not requesting a room change was like, what if one of us gets sunburned and like can't touch another person?
00:15:23
Speaker
because Trevin is very pale. We were really concerned about this for him. He discovered the SPF clothing and didn't get some at all. He didn't, it's incredible. He has the most hilarious farmer's tan I have ever seen in my life. It is like, it is like, it goes like shoulder is white and then sleeve and then brown.
00:15:52
Speaker
And it is, he's not that tan. Like when you don't see the shoulder involved, you're like, oh, you kind of just look the same as you did when you left, but then you pull the shirt up and you're like, oh my God. So yeah, there was like. I might have vague. Vague, okay. Very vague. Very vague. You're, you do not, cause you're not, you're like me. Even when you're pale, you're not pale.
00:16:17
Speaker
That's right. You know, that's right. When he's pale, he's like anemic looking like he's just like northern European through and through, you know, like white. But I.
00:16:34
Speaker
So it was weird at first because like, you know, literally all you're supposed to do with these fucking all inclusives is like relax. You're just supposed to have cocktails, lay on a beach, lay on a floaty in the pool, whatever it is. And we like had to spend like a full day acclimating to not just doing things.
00:16:58
Speaker
Right. Because we don't know how to relax without doing stuff. Right. We ended up going on a snorkeling excursion that was like hosted by like a like a boating company that's like connect like a snorkeling company that's connected to the property. I saw a fucking eagle ray, dude, like, yeah, you were saying that a fucking I couldn't I was I was dead. We saw sharks. I saw like one of the oldest turtles I think I've ever seen in my entire life.
00:17:28
Speaker
Amazing. Like had like fuck. Wait, wait. What's the wingspan on this eagle ray? Give me give me the wingspan. So we were OK. We were obviously snorkeling. We were not diving. We were snorkeling. The depth at this point, I think they said something was like 32 feet. The eagle ray was at the bottom of the like on the sand at the bottom of the water.
00:17:54
Speaker
And it easily looked like it was minimum a six and a half foot wingspan on this fucking ring. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. But it also could have been bigger because of the distance and the water refractivity and everything. Like it was fucking huge. Its tail, like its tail was easily 12 feet long. Easily. That's fucking nuts. It was so fucking cool.
00:18:22
Speaker
I think I told you how we were diving in Hawaii on the big island and they do these tours where they go out to this area where the, uh, manta rays, giant rays, giant rays were like, they've put these Costco surfboards with lights underneath and then like staple handles to them. So we're all just kind of like in the water holding to the sides of these surfboards and these lights are shining down and that illuminates the krill. And that's what the rays feed on.
00:18:46
Speaker
So these fucking rays were doing these barrel rolls below us. Like coming up, like literally two inches. Like they were like brushing against folks. Dream. I found it very erotic, I gotta say. That's awesome.
00:19:02
Speaker
And like, Agnazi, am I kept on joking about like me making love with the rays, you know? Yeah. And I think my mom and my wife are probably a little fatigued by that. But yeah,
Diving Challenges and Aspirations
00:19:12
Speaker
that sounds amazing. So do we ever go diving back in San Diego? Because that's like what I grew up doing. Like I've been I've been snorkeling for like 36 years. I had no idea. That's like a fact I didn't know about you. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I would take like I took Dane
00:19:29
Speaker
Dane and them, um, Dane and them is an entity that we're going to always talk about like on this podcast, but yeah, I took like folks diving every once in a while, but, um, and then like, once I got it, well, you know, I moved to NorCal, you don't really do that up there, but once I got into surfing, they kind of fell by the wayside, but I rediscovered it when we were living in ocean beach, um, the last couple of years before we left San Diego and like, yeah, diving, I'm a big old free diver. That is wild. I could like.
00:19:54
Speaker
could like go down like you're like 32 feet. I was like, I can do 32 feet probably. I can probably get to the bottom. I always wanted to learn how to snorkel. I'm sorry to learn how to like scuba. And then at some point in the last 10 years, I don't know what happened or when it happened. I can't go underwater anymore. Yeah. My ears are just like.
00:20:17
Speaker
The pressure that it creates is so painful that I can barely go five feet underwater now.
00:20:25
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, that's the same for everyone, but you know how to pinch your nose and blow while pinching your nose? Yeah, it doesn't. And then the pressure just doesn't work anymore? It doesn't work. I mean, I was a competitive swimmer and I never had this problem. I could swim to the bottom of a swimming pool, a 10-foot swimming pool with no fucking issues. And now it is unbearable to go five feet underwater.
00:20:51
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. And I don't know if it's like if I have like a collapsed tube or something, but like or if like there's just like sinus blockage that has like accumulated or it's like my allergies or something. But like I really don't think I could scuba comfortably. Well, with scuba diving, I believe that
00:21:13
Speaker
just the fact that your breathing compressed air pressurizes for you. So you don't have to do the thing where you pinch your nose and like pressurize the inside of your skull. Yeah. But you might want to look into that. Yeah, I should talk to a scoop instructor about that because yeah, as far as I know, I've never, I've never scuba does before my dad used to. So my only knowledge of scuba diving is from what my dad used to tell me like, you know, 40 years ago or whatever. So it is like,
00:21:40
Speaker
take that with a grain of salt. That is like one of my, that scuba diving is like a lifetime goal for sure. It's like, I'm not, there's very few places that I'm happier than like floating in the ocean looking at cool shit. I bet they do it in Lake Michigan. They have diving there, right? Oh, for sure. And now that we have a zebra mussel infestation, the water is so fucking clear. I know. Oh, yeah.
00:22:07
Speaker
Um, no, last time I was, last time I was there with you, remember we were like, went to the, uh, the lake and I was like, Oh, I wish I brought my fucking mask because I love crawling around. Like, like, I don't care about fish as much as, um, just underwater architecture, just like reefs and rocks and caves. And that's like what gets me going. No, I, um, I definitely, I definitely think like we're going to try to do a little, a little bit of like floating around in the lake for sure.
00:22:36
Speaker
Um, but the trip to Mexico is actually what inspired, uh, water world because, um, you know, I think you texted me like right as we were, like, we got back from our, our scuba trip and you're like, what movie should
Waterworld Movie Discussion Begins
00:22:52
Speaker
we do next? And I was like, fucking water world. Let's go. Let's fucking go. And it's, you know, it's a favorite.
00:23:01
Speaker
of mine growing up. Yeah. Oh, man. So much fun. So I have like a lot like I have a lot of notes. So I think this is going to be a fun one. Nice. Should we just get into it? Let's just fucking get into it. All right.
00:23:19
Speaker
I guess I'll still do the intro. Welcome to another episode of We're Spanning Time. This is a podcast in which we explore the films of a particular year. This season's year is 1995. I am Bud Catino. And I am Beth Martini. For today's episode, we are covering Waterworld.
00:23:35
Speaker
Sure are. Kevin Costner, Dennis Hopper, Jean Triple Horn, Tina Majorino as the as Enola. She's also in Karina Karina. Remember those? That was a good one. That's with Ted Danson and Whoopi Goldberg, I want to say. Yes. And she was also the girl in Napoleon Dynamite. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm afraid not. Karina Karina was this weird
00:24:00
Speaker
Uh, let's go back to it. I don't know. We don't need to get into it really, but it was like Ted Danson is a dad. I believe it takes place in like the fifties. No, not Ted Danson. I only think that because, uh, Ted Danson and whoopi Goldberg used to date, but Ray Liotta and Tina Majorina.
00:24:21
Speaker
And it's like Whoopi Goldberg is like the nanny or the maid, I want to say. And then and then a good woman who is sent to help a family deal with the horrible reality of death. OK, well, that's a really dark description.
00:24:42
Speaker
Yeah, that is she was also apparently the child in the film Andre about the seal.
00:24:58
Speaker
the SEAL's best friend. That's correct. This is, I literally did not at all put together that the kid from Waterworld was also the girl from fucking Napoleon Dynamite, which I've only ever seen one single time and I'm pretty sure it was stoned. Yeah, I mean, are you a fan of that movie? I am not. The fucks I have to give for that movie are a few.
00:25:26
Speaker
People were really blowing loads at the time and I was like, this is okay. It's a little racist. I don't love the portrayal of the Mexican character at all. It's goofy, it's fun, but yeah, I don't know. It can also, it can curl up into S.K. and D. Don't fuck right off. Absolutely. Highly agree. We'll not be covering that.
00:25:50
Speaker
And no, it's certainly not. So Kevin Reynolds is the director. Bookend movies would be Rapa Nui. I don't even know that obviously it's also a Kevin Costner film. Oh, is it fun? I believe also. So yes. Wait.
00:26:05
Speaker
So that's part of, that is, there's some like hot goss about Kevin, uh, Kevin Costner and Kevin, um, what the fuck is his last name, Kevin Reynolds.
The Troubled Production of Waterworld
00:26:21
Speaker
It is like, so some hot goss about the cost. Okay. Let's just get into it. What did you, what did you find out about?
00:26:26
Speaker
the making of this. OK, so all right, I lied. I'm pretty sure that Kevin Costner was involved in it. Maybe it wasn't. Anyway, there's a whole there's a whole fucking there's a whole bunch of bullshit. OK, so first of all, we kind of all know just from the Internet that the making Waterworld was an absolute shit show, right?
00:26:51
Speaker
I mean, the internet, sure, but even at the time, it was a highly publicized situation. Yeah, it was originally projected as costing $60 million to make, which then went over budget to $100 million at the start of filming. And by the end of filming, it was $175 million production. The most expensive film that had ever been made to the time.
00:27:18
Speaker
Yeah, you know, so it was it was quoted as to have been filming was a 12 ring surface, a 12 ring circus. They had unbelievably dangerous conditions. The film.
00:27:38
Speaker
was slated to take 96 days to film. It ended up taking 166 days to film, which pushed the filming into hurricane season. A hurricane at one point hit Hawaii and fucking sunk their five million dollar set.
00:27:59
Speaker
like just absolutely unreal. So fucking like Kevin Costner and Kevin Reynolds, they worked together on Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. Kevin Reynolds walked off of the set of Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.
00:28:19
Speaker
didn't finish the film and refused to ever work with Kevin Costner again, but apparently they like buried the hatchet at some point and decided to come together to work on this film. Oh, he also directed Red Dawn rules.
00:28:38
Speaker
What are your thoughts on Prince of Thieves? I also think that movie is awesome. I fucking love that movie. I've loved that movie since I was a kid. It is so good. It's really fun. It was weirdly on TV, like often shown as a double feature with Disney's Robin Hood. So it would be like Robin Hood from Disney like with like the foxes and then immediately after what words Kevin Costner's Robin Hood Prince of Thieves. Incredible.
00:29:07
Speaker
And this is why we are film critics, dare I say it, to this day. Precisely. Shit like that. Shit like Kiss of the Spider Woman on PBS at 11 o'clock at night with my dad. Precisely.
00:29:21
Speaker
So the original executive producers of the film left before filming had even started because they thought that the script and Kevin Costner and Kevin Reynolds not being able to agree on the direction of the film was going so far off the rails that they were like, we're done. We're out of here. And they went on to produce the cable guy.
00:29:52
Speaker
which has a fucking Waterworld reference in it. Absolutely fucking incredible. Jim Carrey is like beating the shit out of the main character in the rain, holding him underwater. And he's like screaming, Waterworld, Kevin Costner, great movie.
00:30:11
Speaker
And just like like shoving him under the water repeatedly. Absolutely hilarious. But I think that that was just like such a kick in the dick because it had gotten so much bad publicity by the time the cable guy had come out. I don't know when that line was inserted, but like absolutely fucking fantastic.
00:30:34
Speaker
So like it had already landed. It had already technically flopped because in the domestic market, it only made like 24 mil on its opening weekend. Oh yeah. Yeah. But it actually ended up being a moderate success because between international box office, which it did considerably better in and then like video and DVD sales, it ended up grossing like $263 million or something.
00:31:04
Speaker
That's right. Wow. OK. It went from being publicized as like a horrendous flop to a moderate success. So the script wasn't finished. Period.
00:31:21
Speaker
You know, no surprise. Fucking no surprise. And five days before filming was slated to start, Kevin Costner hired no less than the script doctor for Speed, who happens to be Mr. Josh Whedon, him fucking self. Josh Whedon was the script doctor for Speed and
00:31:43
Speaker
Waterworld and Waterworld. We are we're seeing him like this year, the season season number one of our podcast. We're seeing him a lot. He's coming through quite a lot. He's like he's like the man in the shadows for a lot of these movies. He's the oh my God, why is my brain doing this? You're going to have to clip this. You're going to have to cut this part. Hold on.
00:32:11
Speaker
He's a punch-up guy for all these things, right? Oh yeah, absolutely. He is the Carrie Fisher of stupid action films.
00:32:24
Speaker
just put her in there and make them better. Oh my god. So Terry Fisher became one of the most prolific script doctors in the history of Hollywood. She is entirely responsible for the first three Star Wars films, not being fucking atrocious. She rewrote New Hope, Jedi and Return. Like,
00:32:47
Speaker
She and and she like that was like her career. That's why she was never in anything else, besides the fact that she had crippling anxiety and a drug addiction problem. Like she was a script doctor and like she. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, Joss Whedon is like the Carrie Fisher of the 90s, essentially, even though Carrie Fisher was also script doctoring in the fucking 90s. Yeah. Right. So he was originally brought on for a week and ended up staying on set for seven weeks.
00:33:18
Speaker
later quoted as having said that none of his suggestions were taken into account for the script and the few lines that did get into the final edit were delivered with such terrible acting that he can't watch the film. What are some of his gems? I didn't dig super deep into what he actually updated, but like,
00:33:45
Speaker
Apparently he's like, I can't watch this fucking movie, which I think is hilarious. I mean, it's there's like one or two scenes that actually do kind of slap and the acting is tuned in. Yeah. But there's a lot of like fucking stilted dialogue, just bad directing. I mean, stupid fucking lines. Yes. Shitty premises.
00:34:07
Speaker
Well, it's two different films, effectively. There's Kevin Costner's film, and then there's Kevin Reynolds' film, and they're just smashed together. Kevin Costner wanted, like,
00:34:21
Speaker
this like really like sort of deep look like character building sort of thing. And he wanted the Mariner to be like deaths and weight and all this shit. And Kevin Reynolds was like, let's make like a fucking I mean, this this script was written to literally knock off Mad Max Road Warriors. Absolutely.
00:34:41
Speaker
Like it was actually stated that this was a knockoff of Mad Max Road Warriors on the ocean. And so like that's what they wanted. They wanted an action film and Kevin Costner was like too worried that it was like going to be too much of an action film. So there were arguments
00:34:58
Speaker
away from like there were arguments about the cuts there were arguments about like the theatrical release all of the stuff um there's now at least four versions of the movie that exist oh wow okay the theatrical cut the director's cut something called a ulysses cut which was the which was a
00:35:22
Speaker
fan cut that they had taken all the deleted scenes they could find, recut them into the film and then released it on the internet, which then two months later, Universal released a two disc extended cut, which was nearly identical to the Ulysses cut. Oh, wow. Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
two disc, it's that long. This is a long movie, right? It's a long movie, yeah. The studio wanted it to come in at two hours 15 minutes, and the first cut of the movie was two hours and 45 minutes. Dang.
00:35:58
Speaker
Basically, the editing was like such a fucking problem that Reynolds left during post. He left the production during post and Reynolds is quoted to have said in an interview that Kevin Costner should only star in films that he directs. That's that way he's only always working with his favorite actor and his favorite director.
00:36:22
Speaker
Um, which kind of speaks to the, um, to the, the tension on the set. And then like the, they couldn't film in the rain. They had to constantly stop shooting because of clouds, because of like ships in the background. So it filmed in Hawaii. Is that correct? Yep. I mean, Hawaii is rainy as fuck, like every day. Yeah. It's like, it's like the Midwest. Yep.
00:36:50
Speaker
The special effects supervisor walked off the set amongst a number of other production people. A stuntman was lost at sea because he had
00:37:02
Speaker
for a whole day because he had to commute to the set, which was a thousand yards off of the coast via jet ski. He had to commute into the set by a jet ski and he got lost at sea for an entire day. Oh, my God. Majorino was called was nicknamed jellyfish food because she had been stung by so many jellyfish through the production of the film.
00:37:32
Speaker
Um, Costner stunt double, who was a professional surfer, got the bends on one of the diving scenes and almost fucking died. I bet. Yeah.
00:37:45
Speaker
Kevin Costner got divorced halfway through the production. So that temporarily smoothed things over between him and Kevin Reynolds. Reynolds was like, I'm going to give you a little bit of a pass because clearly you're going through some shit only to leave during the editing process.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it was just, there was a part where Kevin Costner, there's a part where he's like lashed to the top of the mast of the ship, like looking out. And they had to film it so many times that in one, sorry, they had to film it for so long that at one point they had been filming for so long that a squall came up.
00:38:33
Speaker
knocked the ship off course, the boat off course, outside of the safety perimeter. And he was like, being thrashed about a drift on top of this fucking boat for over 45 minutes or something like just absolutely batshit crazy.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah, you know, that's that's just the stuff that I have on the production alone. You know, there's a lot more notes that I have on like the actual movie, but I felt like these were all so like absurd that it has to be like you have to go into it knowing that all that shit is happening behind the scenes. I wonder if there's a documentary, but there is.
00:39:21
Speaker
There might be, but there's also a bro on YouTube who has literally an entire channel devoted to Waterworld. Oh my God. That is actively being updated still. Like the last video was like three months ago. Oh really? Okay, I gotta fucking check that out. Maelstrom's The Odyssey of Waterworld.
00:39:48
Speaker
a feature length, making no documentary, including extensive cast and crew interviews and behind the scenes footage. Well, shit, I should have watched that. But we can we can go back. We can come back. We can watch it and then come back and have a little recap in a future episode for for next episode. We'll spend some time talking about that. I love it. We are well prepared. Hey, it's only episode number five. We're dialing in the process. Indeed we are. Yeah.
00:40:14
Speaker
It's fucking wild. No, it's wild. I remember like, so yeah, it was like 12, 13 when this came out. I remember just in like, you know, entertainment tonight or whatever. I remember them talking about how it was a massive failure and it was overly expensive. Yeah. Cisco and Ebert gave them, gave it like a 2.5 or something.
00:40:40
Speaker
Yeah, this movie kind of sucks, but it's like the best sucking movie I've seen in a while. Like it's still kind of rules. Did you catch the Jack Black cameo in there? Okay, yes, I have noticed that forever, but is it actually Jack Black? Did you check the credits? Because I think I, after watching it again with the intention of seeing if it is Jack Black, I think it's actually just a dude.
00:41:07
Speaker
that looks like him when he's wearing those crazy goggles. No, he's credited as smoker plane pilot. OK, so it is him. Yeah, I've I've I've noticed the Jack Black cameo forever. Yeah.
00:41:19
Speaker
Uh, yeah, it's like, what are those weird cameos? I don't know how this works in the film industry, but it's like, you're kind of getting up there, but you don't have speaking roles yet. And they'll do like a weird like cameo. You're silent, but they're focusing on you for like way too long. It's like one of those thing. Yeah.
World-Building and Societal Commentary in Waterworld
00:41:41
Speaker
He's like covered in grease and has those crazy goggles on. I don't, that's not Jack Black.
00:41:47
Speaker
What? Yeah, in the film, in the in there. I don't think I don't think that's who Jack Black is. Jackass black. He plays a pilot. Not the guy in the boot with the gun. The guy in the. There's a guy, the pilot of the plane. Clean. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And he has like this, like.
00:42:16
Speaker
moment on the screen where he's like looking all like insane. I'm trying to find a picture of it. It's one of his apparently it's one of his earliest roles. Yeah, definitely. Which is so funny to me. Oh, yeah, there is. Yeah. He's wearing like a red captain's hat. He looks he looks like Jack Black.
00:42:40
Speaker
Oh, he's the one who like, oh, they shoot him with the spear gun when he's like flying around and he's like trying to shoot the thing off, shoot the rope. Yeah. And he like, there is a moment where he's like looking out of the plane wearing goggles, smoking a cigarette. Yeah. Yes.
00:42:59
Speaker
but he's not the dude that's like shooting the gun on the bow. He's the other, yeah. Which that guy is fun. I think this movie is fun. I think the smokers are really fun. I don't like to admit this, but I wish I was a smoker. I think if I lived in that world, I would probably go over to the smokers.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, I could do that. So I watched a really hilarious, anecdotal, like short, short video essay that was attempting to analyze exactly how many cigarettes they would have needed to be able to still be smoking an average of a pack a day, 500 years after the world ended. Right.
00:43:43
Speaker
And like basically the dude was like, I'm not going to go into like all of the absurd math that he did, but he was like the 90s average was a pack a day. So, you know, that's.
00:44:00
Speaker
fucking 365 times 20 cigarettes a year for one person. There's 500 people and then there's 500 years. So he does all this math. He determines how many cubic feet this is. It's approximately the same cubic feet of the Empire State Building.
00:44:20
Speaker
then figures out how many cubic feet fit into those storage containers. And he's like, it is feasible. It is plausible that at some point the smokers could have been an armada of shipping ships, like big shipping tankers with the Exxon Valdez as like the lead ship. Right.
00:44:44
Speaker
And that over the years, these shipping tankers were not able to like, they like corroded and degraded over the course of the 500 year society. And we're just seeing the end of the society, right? Like,
00:45:01
Speaker
He's like, so one of those tankers or maybe even several of those tankers could have been captured being overseas international shipments of cigarettes. And that would feasibly like you can fit thousands of those containers on one of those ships. If one ship was just full of cigarettes, they could feasibly have enough cigarettes for their society for 500 years. And I was like,
00:45:25
Speaker
The movie poses a lot of questions, a lot of more or less unanswerable questions. Yeah. You know, I think at the time, I think I might have said to my Uncle David, who is a person who took me to see Waterworld in theaters, where did the cigarettes come from? And I think the answer was probably seaweed.
00:45:45
Speaker
But you know, well, there's those scenes where they like are zooming past like they're like smoke kills, like tar babies, like whatever the fucking name of the cigarettes are. Yeah. Cartons in boxes. Oh, right. You know, they have boxes of Smirnoff and Bacardi, too. Yeah, it's just that's.
00:46:10
Speaker
It's the sort of movie where some of the stuff is well thought and some of the stuff is so poorly lazily thought out. Yes, yes. It kind of drives me crazy. So for me, like, OK, I like, of course, think about a lot of things like in an anthropological sort of way. Right.
00:46:31
Speaker
we are viewing the end of humanity right now. Like this is it. Like this is the end of humanity. They're xenophobic. They are like beginning to suffer the consequences of like reduced population size breeding. They're beginning to suffer the consequences of
00:46:51
Speaker
random mutation, you know, there's like all these things. There's an there is a cut, a cut out scene that I found that is like a speech that Dennis Hopper gives about how the about how the creator, they're like God figure created man and created fish and never the two shall meet because he didn't. There was no room for evolution in that.
00:47:18
Speaker
Um, like basically saying like, there's no way there could be a human fish mutant because humans can't evolve or whatever. Right. Right. Um, so like, cause that would explain the animosity that everyone has towards, um, the mariner. Cause he, that's his name. Yeah. He has part fish or something. He has gills at least.
00:47:41
Speaker
He's a mutated or evolved human of some kind. So there's some kind of toxicity in the planet that is causing this. There's a mutated, that big, huge, crazy fish is supposed to be a mutated shark that they catch. And it's just like,
00:48:03
Speaker
So if we're thinking about this, if we're thinking about, OK, something happened, I don't know, say global warming from capitalism run wild caused the polar ice caps to melt. They didn't melt like overnight. The map at the beginning shows it as like a progression. Right. So let's say that took 100 years. People started figuring out how to live on the water early.
00:48:30
Speaker
you know, pirating probably started pretty quickly. So like this like band of pirates that evolved into this smokers community.
00:48:43
Speaker
I like that you call it a community. It is. They're a society. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, they're a society. They have rules. They have religious beliefs. They have leaders. They have like customs, all of these things. Right. But at the beginning, they were, you know, probably always like kind of like scumbags, you know, their patron, the patron saint, Saint Joe. I don't know if you've caught this.
00:49:14
Speaker
is the ship captain of the Exxon Valdez that crashed in 1989 and caused the oil spill. He is St. Joe. And it is rumored that he was drunk behind the wheel of the ship. And that was the thing that caused the tanker to run aground and cause the oil spill.
00:49:36
Speaker
So, like, they have patronized this drunk fuckup who fell asleep at his post as their, like, their, like, saint, right? So in the beginning, it was probably just a bunch of fucking scumbags who were like, fuck this, we're out of here. We don't want to follow whatever land rules you're imposing on the sea. And we're going to hijack a bunch of ships.
00:50:04
Speaker
And we're going to start our own fucking community. And they were so successful at it. Centered around jet skis and cigarettes. Yes. Give me our main thing. Yeah. And they were so successful at it that they were able to maintain their customs with resources until the end. I mean, it is so many of these movies in the mid 90s. It is
00:50:29
Speaker
you know, a commentary on late stage capitalism, because it's like, you know, we got this far, but it can't last. And like, this is why the world is ruined. Right. Because yeah, they're just like, all right, we're out of oil. We got to find dry land. And like, and then you're just like, hey, this isn't even if you do find dry land, this is like not sustainable, you know? Yep. Yeah.
00:50:53
Speaker
And there's actually, in that deleted scene, there is a comment about, and I don't know if it made it into any of the various cuts, but there is a comment that he makes about how, do you remember how there used to be atolls on every horizon? Oh, interesting. Yeah. And so there was a larger human population than we see in the film.
00:51:21
Speaker
And the response is, well, we did sink quite a few of them. Yeah. Why? Right. Why? Why? You know, the fight for resources, the fight for supremacy, all of this stuff. The smokers are particularly xenophobic. You know, they don't even want like
00:51:43
Speaker
They don't even want the people from the atoll who are attempting to have something close to a land living experience. Like, you know, they're built, they're like finding seedlings and nurturing them into trees by feeding them the like organic sludge from their body recycling program. Yeah.
00:52:05
Speaker
You know. Yeah, that's right. I was they they referred to slavers a couple of times and I was like, oh, interesting. So there's like there's like three types of people. There's like semi chill atoll people who are still kind of xenophobic and a little inbred. Yes. And then there's the smokers. But then also I want to know who the slavers are. I want to see like what kind of community they have.
00:52:32
Speaker
Right. Are they like offshoots of smokers? Like, did they did they like break off? Yeah. Do they have like a compound somewhere that like, you know, I think it's probably for the best that they didn't really like go into that too much, like characterized that too much because I don't think it could have been done. No. Very thoughtfully in 1995.
00:52:58
Speaker
I couldn't help but wish that there could be some fucking Hulu or HBO Max fucking series. It's impossible. I don't think you can do this shit, even how we could do it today. I think it's too hard to do water shit. It's just too crazy. Yeah.
00:53:18
Speaker
But it would be really cool to see like a 200 like a middling time period. Like not when we are right now, which is realizing that the polar ice caps are definitely going to melt. Yeah. And not the 500 years in the future when it's just like fucking Mad Max on the water. Right. Like that middling time when they're realizing that the last of the land is
00:53:46
Speaker
disappearing and that the only thing left, the only thing that's going to be left is the tip of Mount Everest and that they need to protect it.
00:53:58
Speaker
and that someone draws the map or someone edits the map to have no more land masses on it. I want to see how they got to that point. You know what I mean? I want to see the beginning of the lore of dry land.
00:54:19
Speaker
Right. Right. I want to see the fucking what is her name? What is the little girl's name in the film? I can never remember it. Enola. Enola. I want to see like Enola's ancestors starting the tradition of the tattoo of the map of dry land. You know what I mean? Like starting the baby tattooing tradition. Yes. Like I want to know how we got there.
00:54:46
Speaker
So, yeah, absolutely. I'm on board with this. No, I love it because because I think you and I agree that this movie is fun and it rocks. And it's just probably because we both have the words married to the sea tattooed on our chests. I think that, yeah, I think you and I both want to probably live in a world where it's just the ocean. Yeah, I can do it.
00:55:07
Speaker
and like little like fucking lime plants here and there. Smoking cigarettes, like doing a jet ski ballet shit for sure. Hella jumps on our jet skis, but yeah. Oh my God, so many. Yeah, I would love if they could expand this world because yeah, and similarly, I do want to know more about the Mariner and I want to know more about the Mariner's people. And I would like to see the Mariner fuck, if I'm honest, because
00:55:33
Speaker
I mean, he does fuck in the movie, but we just don't see it. Does he? Yeah, he fucks. What's her face? He Helen. Oh, do they get down on the boat? They have. Oh, oh, they do eventually. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I I was running out of time, so I fast forward to that. But that's fair.
00:55:52
Speaker
I wanted to, I mean, I forgot about that part, but my, I wanted to pause it. Like, does the mariner have a penis? Is it webbed? Cause he always looks a little sad when they're like, yo, do you want to fuck my daughter? And he's always like, oh, a little bit. I shouldn't, but also a little bit. Maybe I can't.
00:56:12
Speaker
Well, if it's anything like the fucking like the boys and he might have fucking chest gills, that might be why he has a lot of fuck. A regular person is so that they don't see that he has gills in other places. Exactly. You know, exactly. That fucking show is absolutely insane. I will not enjoy this. I like that. Yeah, I like that. That's a good one.
00:56:38
Speaker
I mean, it's it's bonkers. Trevor loves it. I it's a little too much for me. It's like a little too sociopathic for my tastes.
00:56:47
Speaker
It's a bit ridiculous. Also, I just can't square the fact that they live in the Flatiron Building. Fuck off. There's no amount of like secret government, like money that will get you a loft in the Flatiron Building. Like I don't care who you are. I don't care who you work for. Even if you did have that much money, you wouldn't do that anyways. You could get more bang for your buck like anywhere, you know? Yep, yep. And parking is a nightmare. Where do you park your car? There's no parking garages anywhere around there.
00:57:17
Speaker
Oh, God. I used to work like a block from there. Yeah, I know. The worst. That guy, just a quick tangent, that guy who plays the big bad in that movie is also in a show called Banshee. Have you ever seen this show Banshee, which is a Cinemax movie? No.
00:57:34
Speaker
This is worth a watch. It's, uh, it starts out like this guy getting out of jail. We don't know why. Then he steals a hot rod and he's like, he's like driving around and then he like stops off at a diner and then he folks the waitress. And then he's like, just going around doing crazy shit, trying to track down his ex-girlfriend too. I don't know.
00:57:52
Speaker
He goes to a small town where his ex-girlfriend lives and there's a new sheriff in town and they're both at the same bar, but no one's met the new sheriff yet. And because of like gang violence, the new sheriff gets killed right in front of him. And so he pretends to be the new sheriff of this city called this town called Banshee, which has got to be like in Pennsylvania or somewhere. And so he's just like a bank robber who's pretending to be the sheriff of a small town in Pennsylvania where his ex-girlfriend lives.
00:58:22
Speaker
This fucking quote synopsis from IMDB on Google, Banshee is an unapologetic action packed show with Game of Thrones level nudity and violence and is definitely not for the faint hearted. Yeah. 8.4 out of 10. Yeah, I would say that would be my score too. Worth a watch. Amazing. Amazing. So the
00:58:48
Speaker
The plot of this film is really so stupid, really just the world is covered in water, but there might be dry land somewhere. Yeah.
00:59:01
Speaker
A bunch of people are trying to find it. The like period like like that is the plot of the movie. Everyone's really thirsty. Yep. They drink too much saltwater, which is why somehow everyone's chubby. Makes no sense. But yeah, I love the 90s male body. That's that's in this movie. Yeah.
00:59:21
Speaker
Um, cause I do like, you know, I find it hard that like, if you, if you're, if you show some flesh as a man, I mean, I'm complaining about how they portray male bodies in film. That's a little ridiculous, but, um, like, you know, like everyone has to be ripped all the time or skinny and, uh, they didn't care. They're like, you know, whatever we're just gonna have like, whatever your body looks like, it's fine. Doesn't even though we're all starving and no one has any water. Yeah.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that is really kind of the crux of the patriarchy, right? The patriarchy hurts us all. That's right.
00:59:58
Speaker
forces men and people who identify as men to conform to just as unrealistic sets of standards as it pushes women and people who identify as women into, you know? And anytime someone diverges from that norm, that expectation, they're considered deviant or wrong or fucked up or ugly or fat or whatever, right?
01:00:28
Speaker
It's just like it's it's just I've always said this, you know, the reason why we need to overthrow the patriarchy isn't because I hate men. It's because of the fucking damage that has done to all of us. Absolutely. Like it's it's just the fucking worst, you know, and the patriarchy is very present in this fucking film, too. Like the Mariner is like a violent
01:00:56
Speaker
anti-social character in the beginning who is absolutely willing to sacrifice the life of a child to make his own life easier. Right. You know, like it's it's like.
01:01:11
Speaker
all of the societies are patrilineal societies. All of the mentality is very much like about consumption, about imperialism, it's about ownership, you know, it's all those layers. It's like Waterworld is a not so veiled
01:01:34
Speaker
allegory for late stage capitalism and a patriarchy. Like that is what it is, you know? Absolutely. And the thing that I think is so funny about this film is that it literally is just a series of like absurd actions and mistakes that they have to recover from. Right. Constantly. Yeah. And like
01:02:03
Speaker
And they have to, yeah, it's because it wasn't written well enough to have like a feasible plot or any feasible conflicts. They have to inject these totally stilted unrealistic conflicts between the Mariner and Helen, which make no sense at all. And they also have to make Helen and Enola total dimwits who don't know how to exist in water worlds, which is crazy, which is ridiculous.
01:02:30
Speaker
Right. Yeah, it's just absolutely absurd. And like, there's, you know, one of the things that I think is so just ridiculous is like,
01:02:43
Speaker
the the interaction between the mariner and the drifter in the very beginning where he steals the limes and like you know there's like this thing about like oh you have to be careful who you trust you have to it's it's the worst of humanity this film like there's no it's like it is suggesting that
01:03:05
Speaker
without without laws, without government. This is what humans devolved into are these, you know what I mean? And it's like it's it's just more like weird, scary, like propaganda bullshit. Right. Like you don't distrust everyone you meet immediately. Right. Right. Yeah. You're never no one, whether they were raised in
01:03:35
Speaker
Whether they were raised on a boat or an AIDS hole or whatever, no one would be so fucking stupid as to shoot a harpoon connected to a boat, to a plane. At Jack Black. At Jack Black.
01:03:55
Speaker
that without knowing that a harpoon is very often connected to the harpoon gun. There's literally no one who was raised in this world who wouldn't know that. It's like the stupidest conflict. I think that's one of the things that's so hard about this movie is that I don't think the filmmakers really respected our intelligence as viewers. And yet,
01:04:26
Speaker
through some analysis that other people did on the internet, they thought enough to make the underwater city be Denver, Colorado. Oh, was it Denver? That's what the internet has deduced from certain buildings and certain geographical features or whatever, which means that Denver being a city that lives between 5,500 and 6,000
01:04:50
Speaker
feet above sea level now mile high city got it right so it wouldn't have been so far for him to deep to dive got it you know he's not having so they had the forethought to think okay so if
01:05:06
Speaker
If all the ice caps melted, it would raise the sea level by 7,500 feet, whatever. The only landmass that's tall enough in the world to stick out of that would be Mount Everest. You know, this island in Hawaii is approximately tall enough to be the amount of land that would be sticking out of a sea level this high.
01:05:24
Speaker
But if he's going to be able to dive to get dirt, he has to dive to somewhere that's high enough. So maybe he can't dive anywhere in the Himalayas because then he would know where dry land is. So what's the next tallest place? Denver, Colorado. Right. So they're thinking through these things. Yeah. And then they're just fucking making stupid ass other decisions. It's I mean, it just it comes down to people
01:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, doing really good table setting structurally, right? Yeah. It's a sci-fi thing that I talk about a lot where it's like you can create like cool, you can do cool world building. Yeah. But then maybe you've never spoken to another human being in your life.
01:06:07
Speaker
or maybe you have, but you're not sure how it actually works. And yeah, like just the conflicts between Kevin Costner and Jean Triple Horn are just like, it doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't exist. And yeah, I think I agree with you. Like, I think it would be more like, or less like The Walking Dead, where people are like, I can kind of trust you a little bit. And also we have an ecosystem and we have like economics. And there's got to be, yeah.
01:06:37
Speaker
Okay. Well, so here's my thought. I had sort of like a multi-layered thought about this, which is that if you lived in water world for like, yeah, four or 500 years, you would create, you know, um, economics and industry and agriculture to some extent, obviously if there's still people, right? But I guess maybe.
01:06:57
Speaker
What this movie does speak to is like how fragile culture is and how fragile our societies truly are. And in a way, it sort of goes back to like the genocide of indigenous people in the Americas and how quickly it can be that like some force can just come and destroy, you know, millennial culture and tech, not like frankly, like super sophisticated technology. Right.
01:07:26
Speaker
Because like just within a matter of generations, like it was it's so easy to see how you could lose language and techniques for survival and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like there that that is like a really, you know. Before I continue this thought, I would say that you and I as like.
01:07:51
Speaker
fairly educated, fairly cultured individuals are able to assign far much more meaning and depth to these fucking shitty 90s films than was ever given to them by the people who wrote them.
01:08:08
Speaker
Right. Like we can see how this shit is playing out because we're smart people and perhaps the original writers of the script were also smart people. But whatever was actually put on film, all of the nuances that we are able to sort of give it in its grace.
01:08:32
Speaker
have been lost. And so I don't want anyone listening to this or any of these episodes to think that we actually see these narratives and these undertones actually coming through in these films. They don't. With the exception of Bridges of Madison County, all of these films that we have seen so far miss the marks that they're aiming for. Oh, absolutely. If they're even aiming for marks in the first place. To begin with. Yeah.
01:09:02
Speaker
But that doesn't change the fact that with the right set of questions, does it bring up questions? Does it bring up things that are relevant? And I think that that's true for a water world, you know, like, especially right now, like, we are living in the beginning of this world. Yeah, we're in pre-water world for sure.
01:09:25
Speaker
Like, we are on track to our future descendants possibly living in a world covered in water. I don't necessarily think that we're going to see the polar ice caps melt over the course of a 100 year period of time, but who fucking knows, you know?
01:09:43
Speaker
Capitalism wants to destroy the world because it's a fucking fanatical death cult, and they're all just trying to figure out how to like build these bunkers and convince their fucking paramilitary forces to not turn on them when the fucking world collapses. That's actually a true statement. There is an article about it. Yikes. Yeah, it's fucked up.
01:10:08
Speaker
But like, so it's easy to kind of see like it's or to extrapolate like what would happen if our society today. We're forced to fairly rapidly in the history of humankind adapt to a world that doesn't exist, like living with a set of skills that are no longer relevant because there's no longer land like.
01:10:35
Speaker
humans became societies, tribes became societies because of agriculture. Like if agriculture doesn't exist because there's no dirt, what happens to society, right? And I think like, you know, the thing that is, the thing that's like kind of the hardest for me to wrap my head around is
01:11:03
Speaker
everything that transpired to get us to the point in this film. Because effectively, you know, the world is huge and round and people are potentially strewn all over. But if the water were to rise in the way that science is suggesting it could,
01:11:30
Speaker
Would not the Himalayas be like sort of like the last sort of place that humans would have likely lived? And would not there then be atolls very close to dry land? Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't. I mean, I guess
01:11:53
Speaker
What I was saying is that we would have a compounded and evolved culture surrounding how to live in Waterworld. Right. By the way, there's not enough water. I don't think there's enough water for Waterworld, just like in existence. Oh, really? Yeah. I think if it was a perfect sphere, the water would form like a 2.6 to 2.7 kilometer.
01:12:23
Speaker
waterness around the world, covering of the earth, if it was just like no high spots or low spots, if it was just that. So you would be able to see to the bottom pretty much more or less. So. Yeah. So basically like when the polar ice cap smell like the really just the stuff that's at or below sea level is going to be fucked.
01:12:45
Speaker
Just where most of the poor people live is going to be underwater. I was talking about how fragile culture and history and language can be in technology. But I do believe that even after a few hundred years,
01:13:05
Speaker
we would have like it would be built into your mores and just the narrative of your culture. And even if you don't have writing, obviously, these people don't have paper anymore, but just your yeah, like your what's it called when you just relay history with your oral history? That's what I'm looking for. Thank you. Yeah, you would have an oral history of land and and also it would be like, yeah, there's and people would also go there because people are
01:13:35
Speaker
like boating around sailing all over the world and like it would be like that's still here right and also like hot take in 500 years the constellations will not have changed that much okay right like the the where the stars are positioned now compared to where the stars were positioned in like ancient Rome
01:14:02
Speaker
It's nearly the same.
Cultural and Historical Parallels
01:14:05
Speaker
Yeah, we're still navigating the same way we were 500 years ago, correct? Yeah. Right. And it's like there's no light pollution. So we would be seeing the the night sky back to the way it was in the eighteen hundreds, like pre-industrial revolution. The night sky was fucking bonkers. Oh, yeah. Like.
01:14:24
Speaker
insane. There's one night scene in this movie and I'm like, is that stars or is this just the shittiest like blue screen I've ever seen in my life? Right. Like that's like, you know, and like,
01:14:40
Speaker
500 years is an illogical amount of time for human societies who have collapsed this significantly into like back into like a nomadic hunter-gatherer sort of like less
01:15:04
Speaker
using the word civilized is really loaded because like that's a very like colonialist terminology that's been used to like other people for centuries but like
01:15:17
Speaker
a less organized grouping than the one we currently have. It took 12,000 years for humans to go from being hunter-gatherers to being who we are today. And they're saying that it would take 500 years for society just to completely degrade into this disorganized
01:15:42
Speaker
uneducated, uncommunicative xenophobic. Well, the xenophobic thing, that's like not that that's not that much of a stretch. That's always going to be there, unfortunately. Yeah. But like, do you know what I mean? It's just like I do know what you mean. I mean, I think a lot about. Have we talked about Cabeza de Vaca? I always talk about Cabeza de Vaca. I don't think we've talked about it in the pod yet. So, uh. Well, what's his full name?
01:16:10
Speaker
Albert Alberto Nunez de Cabeza de Vaca is he was this fucking Spanish. He was with the conquistadors, but I don't know. He was like an accountant or something. OK, like wasn't that crazy? Cabeza de Vaca is like a an old like Spanish colonial like military term that I think his mother bought for him. But I don't think he was even really much of a soldier. He crash landed in Florida with like some fucking Spanish galleons. And this fool walked from Florida to Mexico.
01:16:40
Speaker
And he was the first one of the first Europeans to travel by foot across the American South. Yeah. And and he brought one of the first Africans with him sort of as like a low key slave. I forget his name. Right. Great. Of course. I remember the European and I don't remember the African's name. But and they just fucking walked and they just and he was sort of like one of the first anthropologists because he like took notes. Yeah. And
01:17:10
Speaker
When you read his account, it's just like, fuck, these people are savage. They don't have anything. And they're all kind of naked, and they eat fruit. And then when that's done, they move on to something else. And maybe they're eating cicadas over here. And they're just super poor, and their culture is very diminished. And you're like, oh, interesting. You wouldn't expect that to be the case. But then if you think about it, their population had already been decimated a generation or so before.
01:17:40
Speaker
And like, so I guess that's kind of when I was circling back to what I was saying is like culture and civilization and technology and language is so fragile in a certain sense. So it's not entirely surprising that could get to this, but I do think it'd be funny. Um, if they're like, they get to dry land and then it's just like, there's already people there and they're like, Oh, you made it. All right. And there's like boats like docked all around dry land and everyone's just like, uh, yeah, you fucking.
01:18:07
Speaker
Backwoods fucking rednecks just could never figure it out for some reason. But we're glad you're here. Yeah, we've got a sick techno socialist environment.
01:18:16
Speaker
Totally. Like they're just like so stupid that they just like hung out over like the North American continental shelf instead of like just fucking traversing the world. I think that there's something that we should like sort of just like address is like you use the word savage and I use the word like I was reluctant to use the word like civilized. Right. And I think that like it's important to like take into account like
01:18:43
Speaker
that terminology and that association is very much rooted in European attempts at justifying the colonization of worlds that had resources.
01:19:04
Speaker
you know, we see this, like, I think some of the first recorded instances of this type of language being used were in, like, Belgian accounts of the people of the Congo. Right. And I think, like, you know, these terms have proliferated into, like,
01:19:31
Speaker
into science, right? Like they have, but they were very much rooted in imperialism, colonialism, orientalism, like othering anything that could be done to justify the exploitation of resources and people. And so it's like, it's not so much, I think that, you know, these, that the people that he encountered were like,
01:20:01
Speaker
regressing as much as it was that they were attempting to recover from the theft of their resources. Right, exactly.
Art, Colonialism, and Societal Collapse
01:20:10
Speaker
And I think that that could potentially be a plausible argument for the state of the world, of Waterworld.
01:20:20
Speaker
if the smokers are like the imperialists of the of the world and the the atoll people represent like the like indigenous community and what happens to community when it is constantly being sacked and pillaged. Right. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And so I definitely think that, you know, there is there is some thought there. I just generally
01:20:50
Speaker
would like to believe, I think I have, I think I need for my own like, you know, psychology to prevent me from devolving into existential dread. I have to have this belief that
01:21:11
Speaker
at least some core of people, like what you were saying, would get together and build a better society, even if there were people who were out doing what they're doing.
01:21:27
Speaker
Otherwise, I start going down a what's the point sort of fucking spiral. And it is not like that is a dark place in my mind. Yeah. Thank you for the note on our usage, by the way, because I use I yeah, I say words like.
01:21:45
Speaker
savage like quite glibly and it's because I've read I don't know because I study anthropology in college and read like 1491 and so right you know what it is it's that old term it's like hipster racism it's like oh I assume when I use this word that I assume that you and our listeners like know what I mean where when I'm using savage in like quotes but I'm not right you know I'm not saying that loud but thank you for that note and thank you for the reminder to like you know tune out the language a little bit
01:22:12
Speaker
Well, I think it is valuable to think about the vernacular of these studies, right? Because there's a fucking wild documentary on HBO, I'm pretty sure, called Exterminate the Brutes.
01:22:29
Speaker
And it is all about the transatlantic slave trade. And it is about the role that Western European countries played in the subjugation of the continent of Africa. And it is fucking dark, as it rightfully should be, because it is a very, very dark stain on humanity, as far as I'm concerned.
01:22:54
Speaker
And it's graphic also, again, because that should not be shied away from because we should be talking about these things. But I literally couldn't keep watching it because it was so difficult. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be watched and I shouldn't watch it. But that is a reality for me. And in my own
01:23:20
Speaker
recent studies like UIC has done a lot of work with the art history department to de-center and de-colonialize the conversation in art history. And one of those is acknowledging that like Western European art is not the center of art. It is not where art came from. And like I
01:23:49
Speaker
wrote a paper about the European pastoral painting tradition, which is this
01:23:58
Speaker
this thing that started in like the middle 1600s when Europeans began going across the Atlantic and exploring new worlds. And one of their sort of one of the ways that they A, advertised that there was this new world to explore and B, pacified the population was by painting these idyllic pastoral paintings in the classical tradition.
01:24:28
Speaker
that really created this idea that the new world was this vast, untouched, unoccupied landscape that was ready to be brought into the European way of life, right?
01:24:48
Speaker
You know, that was absolutely a tool that was used to say, hey, guys, don't worry about it. This is this land is fresh, free and ready to go. Like you want gold? We've got you. You want oil? We've got you. You want lumber for your fancy ass fucking furniture? You want mangoes? You know, like
01:25:14
Speaker
The realization that some of my favorite paintings, which are like the Dutch still life tradition of painting, they're to me still masterfully done. But the realization that they were billboards for colonialism, because none of that shit could have been painted by a bunch of motherfuckers in Amsterdam if it hadn't been for the transatlantic slave trade.
01:25:42
Speaker
I was knocked off my seat. Those two things had never correlated to me. To get to this conversation from water worlds.
01:25:58
Speaker
You know, speaks to how we think about things. Absolutely. Yeah. That that water world is having us discuss the vernacular that we use, the like way that these things are discussed. And I think that that's pretty I think that that's pretty fucking cool. Like a shameless plug for our fucking pod. But like, where are you going to get that anywhere else?
01:26:22
Speaker
This is why this is one of the most important podcasts out there, I would say, right now. It's truly, truly so important. Squarespace, hit us up. That's so stupid.
01:26:40
Speaker
No, and like I mean and this is this is why we're doing this project together is because You and I have always put our brains together like this and this is how we think and this is how we talk about shit That's why I treasure you as a co-host And I treasure you as a friend
01:26:56
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. So, I mean, that's that I feel like that's what our world is like. There it is. Like it's Kevin Koster drinking his own pee. It's ski lifts. It's ski lifts. Jet skis underwater. Just doing duck dives like a surfboard underwater. Absolutely incredible. Doing like the most unbelievable stunts. It is a it is an international
01:27:24
Speaker
multimillion dollar live action show at five universal properties. Oh, still still do this fucking day. They cannot. People cannot get enough of these fucking like war on the water productions of Waterworld. Oh, yeah. Universal Studios. Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes you look at books like
01:27:51
Speaker
Gosh, sometimes it turns out, for example, Planet of the Apes
01:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, or a better one, 2001 Space Odyssey. Yeah. You know, that's an adaptation of a novel. Well, it turns out that like, I don't know, the novel was like going to press when they're already making a movie version of it. And like, so sometimes some novels are like written with the expressed interest of becoming a film adaptation. I kind of think this is this movie feels like it was made to become just like a spectacle, like a how do you call it?
01:28:24
Speaker
a theatrical production and a theme park attraction. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Waterworld's Physical Effects and Challenge of Ocean Filming
01:28:31
Speaker
They're like, you know what this will be? This will be a cash cow for years to come. I mean, it's been where we like, you know.
01:28:39
Speaker
close to 30 years now, and it's still going. It's amazing. I mean, it's fucking fun. The action scenes are operatic. They fucking rule. There's lots of fire. All practical, too. That's the fucking crazy thing. The vast majority of the film is practical effects. There's like one stupid kite scene. One stupid kite.
01:28:59
Speaker
is CGI. There's some CGI shit for sure. Like, you know, a giant mutant shark whales and shit. But right. And the underground, the underwater city thing is all CG. Yeah.
01:29:11
Speaker
Which is a weird choice because building scale buildings and filming them underwater would probably have been the easiest thing that they could have done on the studio. I could build a scale city at the right size to run a camera through water and film.
01:29:33
Speaker
you know, fucking if like Star Wars did it, like what you're too fucking good to use the same techniques that Star Wars use, like give me a break. Oh, is that what they did in Phantom Menace? Oh, Phantom Menace was completely 100% CGI. But the original three, New Hope,
01:29:51
Speaker
Jedi and Empire, they all all of the all of the ships, all of the like buildings, everything that was all that was all filmed on scale. Like the star destroyers were all built and filmed as objects, you know.
01:30:11
Speaker
Uh, so it, I don't know. It's just like, it's hilariously, I guess Spielberg was consulted about whether or not they should film on the ocean because he notoriously had difficulties with Jaws. He was like, you can do it, but I'll never fucking do it again. Like, like filming on the ocean is the worst. Like it is so fucking unpredictable and it is so hard. And the ocean is like,
01:30:37
Speaker
Not at all. Like, I'm sorry. If the world were covered with water and the moon still existed, do you think they would just be cruising on this chill ass sea all the time? No. The tides would be fucking bonkers. Bonkers.
01:30:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there would be storms all the time everywhere constantly. The swells would be like 30, 40, 50 feet. Like, where the fuck are these atolls even built, my dudes? Like, what are they anchored to? I mean, yeah, it's there again. Compelling reason for a reboot, in my opinion. Indeed. Indeed. HBO hit us up.
01:31:21
Speaker
We show runners for the fucking new water world. I don't know. Do you imagine? Could you fucking imagine? Oh, I would. I would be deceased if we parlayed this stupid podcast into fucking rebooting water world as a fucking HBO production. I mean, it's not. We have some good fucking ideas to be honest. Yeah.
01:31:41
Speaker
Um, all right. Well, should we get to rating this soccer? Yeah. Pure dirt. I'm just, I'm just trying to look over my, my notes. Leave anything out. Did you catch those multiple fart noises? There's fart noises a couple of times here and there. We're just like, someone's doing something and then they make like, uh, it's like a, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:32:03
Speaker
Also, the line that always stuck out to me, even from the first time I saw this in the theater and it just seems so stilted because she says it twice. And I'm like, oh, they did some study and they're like, oh, people loved it when she said it. So we had to put it in there a second time. He'll come for me. He will.
01:32:21
Speaker
Oh, my God, he'll come for me. He will. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she says it twice and it's like, yo, it it hit the first time, but it does undoes all that work the second time. She said, yeah. Yeah.
01:32:37
Speaker
Oh, we got to talk about the Kim Coates drifter scene that that is the best scene. I would say the second drifter. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's like the only good scene in this whole movie. I would say like and his his performance.
01:32:54
Speaker
totally outshines anyone else in that scene. And he I mean, we already knew that Costner is a dud in this movie and has no pulse. Absolutely. And but it's always like it kind of works because he's kind of hot. But he's just kind of weird. But it's like once you get him in front of Kim Coates, you're just like, oh, fuck, like he has no personality.
01:33:16
Speaker
This is what an actual actor is capable of doing. Yeah. I don't know where Coates is otherwise in his career at this point. I know. I'm like also looking. And I'm like, oh, is he fucking Scottish, actually, because he's in, you know, he's in Sons of Manarchy. Which he's done a really good job in. No, he's Canadian. Huh? I'll be damned.
01:33:41
Speaker
I never watched that sense of anarchy. Never. I didn't give a fuck. It's also like... It's worth a watch. Weirdly... You don't need to see all of it. Well, it weirdly gives me like a lot of anxiety because like my mom was a person who was addicted to drugs and some of the primary drug dealers in San Diego County were Hell's Angels. And so like I have like a lot of weird anxiety around like fucked up motorcycle gangs.
01:34:11
Speaker
Completely. So that's also why I've never seen Breaking Bad. Sure. Like same shit. Not really interested. You know who he reminds me of a little bit though? Is the fucking the guy in the hallway from Fifth Element?
01:34:33
Speaker
The guy in the hallway. Yeah, with the hat that like is has the gun and he's like, oh, yeah, give me like that. Yeah, that moment. He is doing classic 90s, drugged out, sketchy person. Yes. Yes. Roll. Yeah. But it's I don't know.
01:34:52
Speaker
It is part of this movie just being kind of fun. There's just really fun shit in this movie, and that's one of them, because he is eating the scenery, and he's really taking over. Yeah. But you could feel like he's like, oh, fuck. I just want to get laid. I don't have any food. I'll trade you this paper. And you could feel his disappointment when it's not going to work out. Right. Yeah. But also, his first suggestion is
01:35:19
Speaker
having sex with a Nola. Tell me the child. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's like really gross and fucked up. Yeah. That's compelling though. And that's realistic. You know, like I think that's an anchor that that scene kind of anchors this movie as much.
01:35:35
Speaker
Harden the pun. And I think as much as this movie is anchorless and set adrift frequently. Well, and I think that that is the that that scene exemplifies the movie that Kevin Costner wanted to make. Probably. He wanted to have a movie that was serious and had character development and really spoke to the world. And Kevin Reynolds really wanted to speak to the water, I think like. Hmm.
01:36:03
Speaker
You know, so I mean, also, though, can we just like talk about like, could they have not come up with any more of a compelling title than Waterworld? Yeah. Like, was there nothing else that that movie could have been called?
01:36:23
Speaker
No, they didn't give a fuck. They're busy setting up the explosive explosions. They are busy shopping for grappling hooks. They were busy painting the ski, the jet skis like truly. They were busy rebuilding the five million dollar set after it was fucking demolished by by Hurricane. Yeah. All right. Fair enough.
01:36:43
Speaker
I like how Kevin Costner gets shot at some point. And then it's just like, oh, better. He gets shot. Then he does like a, I don't know, a hundred foot free dive with Jean Triple Horn. And he's just like grabbing dirt off the ground. Also, when they do that, I've been a two thousand foot free day. That's what I was getting at. Like, yeah.
01:37:04
Speaker
the water for them to be in Denver town, the city of Denver. Yeah. And if the water had been 75,000, like 7,500 feet deep.
01:37:17
Speaker
That would have been a 2000 foot free dive and she's just going down there and like a makeshift like fucking glass. No, no, it's like a diving bell made out of a shower curtain is what it is. It's just like so it's plastic. It's so janky. It's the janky thing. How on what on what planet?
01:37:39
Speaker
is 2,000 feet, the pressure of 2,000 feet below water, not going to murder a human being. Yeah. Without compressed air, it's impossible. And very specific gas ratios added to that compressed air, it's not possible.
01:37:55
Speaker
Come on, guys. Fucking figure it out. We also can't we can't not mention that the saving coup de gras in this movie is a bungee jump.
The Climactic Ending and Plot Holes
01:38:08
Speaker
An improvised bungee jump. Yeah. Rope doesn't behave like that. No, no.
01:38:20
Speaker
That shot, that shot of the three jet skis coming together with the explosion, with him holding onto her and like floating in the air.
01:38:34
Speaker
That's not what would happen. There's no amount of air pressure that would have kept that balloon just chilling there also, by the way. That balloon with the force of him being pulled down at the velocity of him jumping, that balloon wouldn't have had enough fucking resistance to even prevent him from going into the water.
01:39:01
Speaker
Yeah. Also, it's a sensibly like a hot air balloon, correct? So you where's your where's the fire? Yeah. And who just sets a child on the edge of a hot air balloon basket? Oh, yeah. So he shoots at the he shoots at them and it like ping like and then she just falls off and then she just falls backwards off of a fucking hot air balloon basket.
01:39:25
Speaker
Into the water and like that would have killed her. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like the fucking MythBusters did a whole just did an entire fucking episode about how far can a person fall onto water without it killing them?
01:39:42
Speaker
But what is it, like 30 feet or something? It can't be that much, yeah. Yeah, it's not very far. Just falling flat. Of course you can dive, and that's a thing. That changes it. And if you jump in full point, that changes it. We know people, you probably have jumped off the end of the pier. I never jumped off the pier. I really wish I had, but it's doable. I never did, because I'm too scared. I'm also, I'm afraid of heights. It's OK.
01:40:12
Speaker
I'm scared. I'm afraid of the falling and like the panic that would set in in the in between and that I would like not breathe enough and then like. Fuck it up somehow. Yeah. Swallow a bunch of water and die. But like so like there's so many like like that's the that's the coup de grace. That's the plot point. That's how you wanted to end this fucking film. Like that's the sticking fucking get fucked.
01:40:41
Speaker
I mean, bungee jumping was so big back then. That's kind of the heyday of bungee jumping. And, you know.
01:40:51
Speaker
Because we're on the topic, obviously, Bunchy Jumping has its indigenous roots. So in a sense, it is more like just throwing a straight up rope on there. So she falls over, he ties a rope to his foot, and he's like, tie it off. And then he jumps. And then they spend like 30 seconds, like, wait, what? Oh, hey, tie it off. No, tie it off. And she ties it to the thing, to some random like cleat inside the boat, air boat, balloon boat that they're on. Yeah.
01:41:20
Speaker
And then, uh, and I had forgotten, I watched this movie twice this year on a Delta flight. I think like I watched it going there and then I watched it coming back again. Um, but I had forgotten the bungee jump and I got so excited the like 10 seconds before, like when he goes down to tie.
01:41:39
Speaker
it to the rope to his foot. I was like, oh, the bungee's apart. I got really excited. Just I mean, it's just absolutely absurd. And and then like somehow they're able. OK.
01:41:53
Speaker
I somehow they're able to circumnavigate the globe to find the land. And somehow in that moment, Gregor has been able to like understand the tattoo. Yeah, he just looks at it backwards and he's like, oh, north is north. South is south is literally what he says. Yes. No, north is south and south is north. Oh, yeah. So he looks at it as a diverse. Yeah.
01:42:21
Speaker
I mean, just come on, guys. OK. And so explain this premise. There are two elderly people, two people who are dying on an island, which is the top of Mount Everest. Yes, sensibly. Uh huh. Oh, it is in the in the in the TV cut. There's a plaque that they uncover that says you're standing on the top of Mount Everest. Oh, fuck. Is it really? OK. Yeah. Yes.
01:42:48
Speaker
which I had never seen that version before. And so when I was doing my research, I was like, the fucking top of Mount Everest. And then I found the scene that has the plaque in it. See, that's so stupid because when I was 13, I was like, this must be the top of Mount Everest, right? And someone was like, I guess so. My dad was like, sure, I guess so. Yes, it is. And it's so stupid that an adult got paid so much money to think that up and put that in there.
01:43:11
Speaker
OK, yes. So the premise is that two people have a child that they baby Moses out into the water world. Well, not before they do a stick and poke like a really good stick and poke tattoo. It would be. I'm assuming it would have been in the tradition of like like Mayori tattoo, which is.
01:43:34
Speaker
still done effectively stick and poke and those fucking beautiful, like absolutely fucking fantastic. So no, but you see the tattooing implement covered in dust next to the skeletons at the end of the film there. All right. Let's see. Let's go. You're going to look at the tattoo gun from Waterworld. Is that what you're googling or not?
01:43:58
Speaker
While Beth is looking this up, if anyone wants to do some further research on the fucked up way that Belgium opened up the country of Africa for genocide and rape and slavery, you can look at King Leopold's Ghost, which is a really great nonfiction book that talks about that subject. Yeah, that's it. Belgium's the fucking worst.
01:44:24
Speaker
They are the worst. They are the worst. France also colonized Mexico at one point. France was the... Portugal to... Yeah, but King Leopold, it's like his French cousin was the empire of Mexico for a short bit. They're all fuckers. Them as Candido, they could all fuck off.
01:44:48
Speaker
Truly. OK, so I've got a picture of the music. OK, I've got a picture of the music music, which is a song that she would hum all the time. Uh huh. Because you remember something. She's a baby. Also, like, though, if she could hum the if she was old enough to remember the fucking song, like you would think that she would remember that, like, she'd been to dry land and that it wasn't all subliminal. Like, that's right.
01:45:14
Speaker
You know, I'm just okay. Where the fuck? Final scene, Waterworld. I like that. Oh, you know what? I have it up on Amazon. I can just pull it up. I'm too scared to do Google image search for Waterworld tattoo because I'm going to find like adults with Waterworld tattoos. Oh, a hundred percent. I'm too scared. I just can't.
01:45:39
Speaker
Yeah, take a screenshot or look at it and tell me what it looks like, because like. Oh, wait, here we go. Hold on. Back too far. Freshwater area. OK, also just found something interesting. I found something.
01:46:10
Speaker
Yeah, the big reveal didn't make the final cut is that on this spot in 1953, Hilary and Norgay first set foot on the summit of Mount Everest.
Costume Design and Environmental Themes
01:46:22
Speaker
That plaque didn't make it into the final cut that was theatrically released. Which is like maybe kind of like.
01:46:36
Speaker
Like an important bit, you know? So you think that would be important? Yeah. You know, I would have liked it. You know what it kind of feels like, though? It kind of feels like the fucking planet of the apes. It was Earth the whole time. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. OK, I'm going to text it to you. I'm sorry. I didn't do a snip. I just couldn't. That's fine. I sent a picture. I took a picture of my screen in my seven place. Like a fucking old man.
01:47:05
Speaker
I'm also going to send you a picture of our new dog that we're getting tomorrow. That's so exciting. Her name is Birdie. Her name is Birdie and she's been named that for like nine years. So we're not going to change it. Although of course we will. Yeah, of course. Organically changing.
01:47:21
Speaker
You're just going to have a fucking Simpsons moment. No, no. OK, this. OK, yes. This is very much like the tool that is used in Mayori tattooing. It's like a Pacific Islander sort of tattooing implement. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's just I don't know. Again, what is about this? Just dumb shit.
01:47:45
Speaker
But it's fucking fun. It's a fun movie. And if Kevin Costner had gotten his way and had fucking, oh, that's a cute ass dog. I love that little fucking tooth. Yeah, she's a pug chihuahua, pug chihuahua mix. Oh my God, what a dummy. Look at that little snaggle tooth. I know, she's truly a dummy. She's just a little mama chihuahua, she's like nine years old, but she can like, as opposed to spider, she can like,
01:48:14
Speaker
walk around and like she likes to play with toys. Oh, so she has like a considerable amount of life left in her. Yeah. Yeah. She's a frosted face for sure. She's up there. Yeah, but she's not like a fucking, she's not geriatric.
01:48:30
Speaker
No, we're asking really embarrassing questions. We're like, cool, how does she do stairs? Can she go upstairs? And they're like, yeah, she can do stairs. I was like, does she like to cuddle or eat food or anything like that? Like live? Does she be alive? Bark? Dogs bark, right? That's what dogs do? Yeah.
01:48:55
Speaker
Oh, goodness gracious. Yeah, I mean, there's like endless amounts of things to say about fucking the rest of this movie. But I like the costume design. Costume design was great. I thought the set deck was was fun. Yeah, the the costume design is great. I mean, I will say I'm not going to lie. It's like a teensy bit implausible that like Helen had this banging ass outfit. You mean the you mean the fucking bustier she was wearing the whole time? Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm.
01:49:25
Speaker
Cause like fish leather bustier that she had. Like let's be real leather on water that tight would be such a bummer. Yeah. Like I bet it sucked so fucking bad to wear that fucking costume out on the goddamn ocean. The level of chafing just not fun. No. And like,
01:49:51
Speaker
the straps on the side. I mean, OK, so I'm looking at a picture like a like a picture from like filming. And in this picture, it doesn't look like leather. It looks like waxed canvas, like it's like old sail material, which is definitely a lot more plausible. Yeah. And, you know, there's not a lot of sewing that's been done except for like.
01:50:16
Speaker
you know, what plausibly could have been seams from like old sale pieces, I guess, possibly. But I think it's fish leather. It's got to be. You think so? It looks like fish leather. It does. Yeah. All right. All right. Also, can we just talk about Dennis Hopper's codpiece?
01:50:36
Speaker
I was I saw it in my notes and I was like, well, like this is kind of this recording is dragging out a bit. Maybe next time we can talk about that. But yeah, epic cod piece. I mean, I mean, in that scene when you see it, it's front and center, which is fantastic.
01:50:52
Speaker
Yeah, and he just has like this like belt made out of like, like a fucking I mean, that's a pretty nice touch to have like the belt be made out of like a like a docking, like belt like a What are they fucking called?
01:51:11
Speaker
But yeah, like there are nice touches like costuming and fucking super solid. There's also this really nice touch that Dennis Hopper has like this like. Panel that is all full of like old war medals. Yeah.
01:51:29
Speaker
And so I'm wondering, from their society, did they honor that and did they keep that? Or did they see pictures of kings? And that was what indicated the status of a person, was how many medals they wore.
01:51:45
Speaker
I just like, you know, I think it's pretty, pretty good. Kevin Costner's pants are fucking outrageous. I love the pants. I've always loved the pants. Just ridiculous. Yeah. And going back to the Kim Coates scene, he's did you catch that he's wearing a jacket made of like six pack rings?
01:52:08
Speaker
I like of a, like the plastic rings, the rings that we were the very successful ad campaign that all of us nineties children to cut those rings up so that it, um, a turtle didn't have a ring around its head or seagull or whatever. I still do that shit.
01:52:25
Speaker
I also do. Where the fuck is Captain Planet right now, man? How the fuck? I can't. Was that a Captain Planet thing? I'm pretty sure that the reuse, reduce, recycle, and the cutting, all of that stuff was part of that same eco
01:52:44
Speaker
eco intelligence, like campaign in the nineties, like it was all just to try to get kids to not fucking ruin the
Waterworld's Legacy and Reception
01:52:52
Speaker
world. And we, little did we know that it was actually our parents generation that had already done it. That's right. There's no such thing as personal responsibility and late stage capitalism. Uh, let's rate this movie and get the fuck out of here.
01:53:10
Speaker
Right. Enjoyability. It's that's that's going to be a 475 for me. OK. It's a fucking fun, enjoyable ass movie. I agree. I've seen it like 13 times, so it has to be enjoyable. No, I agree. For me, like I know. Oh, oh, my God.
01:53:38
Speaker
We have been recording too long and I cannot think any longer. Okay. Enjoyability. Yeah, I'm going to say 450 because there's just some like plot story bullshit that I just can't get over, unfortunately. Yeah, that's fair.
01:53:54
Speaker
A veracity? No. No, I think we lampooned. I think we just absolutely lampooned the veracity through our entire conversation. I'm going to give it like 72. Yeah, like a 46 46 for you. OK. Immersiveness. It's very it's a very immersive movie. I very rarely tune out when I'm watching it. At this point, though, I've probably seen it so many times that it does definitely become background noise.
01:54:20
Speaker
I think the only thing in my notes that says, like, drags on too long is just the conflict bullshit between Mariner and Helen. But it is very immersive. You feel salty. You feel sunburned. It feels hot. Yeah. The like sound of the squelching from the organic reclamation pit is like so disgusting and like I can like smell it. So I'm going to give it I'm going to give it like a two seventy eight.
01:54:50
Speaker
Slightly better than half. OK. Yeah. For mercenaries, I'm going to go like. And I'm going to go 350 actually. All right. Would I watch again? I mean, it is. It's one of those ones of streaming on purpose, like when I'm bored and I'm by myself and I don't know what to put on and I see Waterworld pop up. I'm like, yep, there it is. Yeah. I don't.
01:55:15
Speaker
I don't care about going to see this in a revival theater. It's not going to be any different for me than watching it at home. I don't want to hear Kevin Costner talk about anything. Would it be really fun to see it get roasted by like Tina Majorino and like Joss Whedon? Probably like that would be a fucking fun like
01:55:40
Speaker
moment, but I mean, if somebody was just like water world at the music box, I'd be like, yeah, probably not. Yeah. Yeah, I think. Well, I've seen it three times this year, so probably wouldn't do that. But this like one of these nights when I come home with like two pounds of Taco Bell, I'm going to say drunk by myself at midnight.
01:56:04
Speaker
And you have watched it on a flight twice this year. So it's because like I started it towards the end of, you know, when you start a movie at the end of your flight and you're like, Oh no. Yeah. You have to do it again. Yeah.
01:56:18
Speaker
So that's Waterworld. That's Waterworld. And thank you again for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember, rate, reviews, subscribe. Eventually we'll maybe even read some of those reviews because we'll think they're funny when you're talking shit about us. And in case you need to be reminded in the immortal words of Jim Carrey, I don't know what all the fuss was about. I saw the movie six times and it rules.
01:56:48
Speaker
Absolutely. Amazing. That's a really fucking funny line. The clip is fucking hilarious. I completely forgot about that clip in in in fucking the cable guy when he's just like absolutely losing his fucking mind. They're on the satellite at that point. That's where it's like filling with water and he's like
01:57:14
Speaker
Fucking bashing his head into the back of the satellite. Table guy. Such a much better movie than Waterworld. Wow. I mean, whoever thought we'd say that out loud. All right, well, I'm going to go get ready for a graduation. Cool, dude. What are you going to do with the rest of your day? You're a good friend for going to a graduation, I would say.
01:57:31
Speaker
I know, but like my best friend Cody, she just finished her master's with distinction and I feel like, you know, none of her family is going to go and her partner would have to be there by themselves. And so me and Trevin are going to for like the support, obviously. And I intend, I absolutely intend on forcing her to come to my graduation. Trevin just asked me the other day, he was like, do either of us like really have to walk for our undergraduate degrees? And I was like, motherfucker,
01:58:01
Speaker
I'm walking. You should. I am walking. I've never graduated from anything in my life. Yeah. I'm fucking doing this like I'm going to have been in fucking school for five years. I'm fucking walking. Yeah. Like I'm getting a cap and a tassel and all that bullshit. I'll be there. Hell yeah.
01:58:33
Speaker
And mostly sing along
01:59:08
Speaker
I'm going to leave for real
02:00:40
Speaker
Such a many words