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20. Taking the PANCE
129 Plays2 years ago
In this episode a fellow board-certified PA and I talk about PANCE prep, taking the PANCE, and when graduating takes a little longer.
--- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app
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Transcript
Introduction to the PA School Experience Podcast
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the PA School Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Sebring Sands, and I take you through the behind the scenes look of PA School and explore what it takes to become a PA.
Podcasting with Anchor: Tools and Benefits
00:00:33
Speaker
If you have been wondering how I could do this podcast in PA School, I'll tell you, I use an anchor. This is the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. First, it is a free hosting platform which allows anyone to start a podcast with no upfront cost. It has built-in tools which allow you to edit and record a podcast. You can even record it from your phone.
00:00:56
Speaker
Anchor will distribute your podcast for you so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and other major podcast platforms. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. Anchor has everything that you need to make a podcast. They make it so easy for you. Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor.fm to get started. That's anchor.fm A-N-C-H-O-R.fm to get started today.
Guest Introduction: Christina Lenahan, PA-C
00:01:27
Speaker
Welcome everyone to another episode of the podcast. Now that I have tons of time, I'm able to pump these episodes out. And I have an exciting guest for you all today. And we're gonna talk about the pants, life after PA school, finding a job, all that good thing. So I'm gonna have my guest introduce yourself. Hello everyone. My name is Christina Lenahan. I am Sebring's classmate or former classmate.
00:01:55
Speaker
and I am also officially a certified physician assistant.
Certification Exam: Relief and Transition to Real Life
00:02:02
Speaker
Yeah, me too. We passed. We're certified. Yeah, that was pretty much the last hurdle for me to breathe easy and just relax after PA school. It seriously was, yeah.
00:02:19
Speaker
until qualifying things like a PA, but I really need to pass so I can have a job and start working at a job. So that's really exciting. So how has post PA life been for you? Post PA life, PA school life. It's been nice. It's been weird because I'm like so used to
00:02:42
Speaker
Like I remember in PA school, if I wasn't studying, I always had this like guilt. I don't know if you felt the same thing, but I was just like, I felt so guilty, particularly didactic here in particular, but even, even clinical year when I had like, uh, maybe the exception was primary care. Cause we didn't have to study for an EOR for that. But, uh, yeah, I always felt guilty if I wasn't.
00:03:06
Speaker
you know, doing some rosh questions or like reviewing pants prep pearls. So it's been nice to be able to like finally like, it's also been weird just to be able to kind of relax and like do whatever I
Adjusting to Life After PA School
00:03:19
Speaker
want. So it's been nice, yeah.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, I found the immediate transition a little bit harder because yeah, I'm very driven and like I need to be studying, I need to be doing this and this and that's why I filmed the day mostly with that. But just relaxing and I also have
00:03:41
Speaker
family responsibilities, like I've been taking my daughter to appointments and things like that and running around. So it's a little bit different, busy, but it's nice to not, you know, even having that worry, we don't have to study, we don't have to feel guilty, which is nice. Yeah, it is nice.
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah, I almost kind of like not to like say like, I want to go to a school again, but I do miss having that structure. So I am looking. So right now, obviously, I'm not working because I just passed the pants, I'm waiting for my certification to come in my license. But I almost need like structure. I'm like, shit, what do I do with my life now? You know, like I need to
00:04:23
Speaker
come up with like a routine because I kind of, I realized I kind of missed that. I like having something to like do and like look forward to, but I'm not going to complain. I'm going to like, this is probably like one of the only times I'm not going to have to, I don't have a job, you know, I'm not working. So trying to enjoy it as much as possible.
00:04:43
Speaker
It's nice having a break, even if it's like a mandatory break between school and job just for getting licenses and privileges and things like that. So did you stay and stay or did you move? Um, so I actually moved to Jersey City. So I'm living there now. Well,
Relocation and Career Decisions Post PA School
00:05:04
Speaker
right now I'm actually visiting my parents this week, but, um, yeah, I'm living in Jersey City. So.
00:05:11
Speaker
That's been a change for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think most of the, our classmates moved out of the state. They were transplants from California, lots from California and Massachusetts and some from Missouri went, all went back pretty quick. Then a week or two of PA school ending. Yeah. I think everyone, yeah, was like probably anxious to get back to their life before PA school, maybe. I don't know.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I was originally thinking about going back, but I really didn't have any prospects. I didn't have any connections where I was from. Yeah, that's right. You're from where again? I'm from Washington if I moved from Utah.
00:05:58
Speaker
Okay. You tried. No, I had all my contacts were here and especially in orthopedics. This is one of the best States to practice in. There's so many orthopedic positions here and so many great ones. So there's the only downside is a little bit higher standard of living, but I get paid more. So I think it evens out event like in the end, but yeah. And you also have a daughter here. So I feel like it'd be hard.
00:06:26
Speaker
I'm not sure how old she is. I mean, I know she's in school, but it'd be hard to uproot her, right? Like. Yeah. Well, we homeschool. So it's easy to do that, but yeah, she's made friends. We've all made friends. We've it's what we've only, we've always been here for three years. So we've, we've settled. So it's nice. And I don't like moving. So it's nice to stay where we're at and just relax.
00:06:52
Speaker
And I even have to move. We might even stay in our apartment. So I might not even have to move at all and then start working, which will be nice. Yeah. Where do you live? Are you in Stanford or do you look outside of Stanford? So I'm in Norwalk right now.
00:07:08
Speaker
was a little bit cheaper than we found when we were first moving here. And I was glad because it felt like it was a good location between going between our Stanford campus and Fairfield campus. And also with all my other rotations, I felt it was very central, which was nice.
00:07:27
Speaker
It's a good city. It's diverse. It's cozy, I feel. I like it a lot. So what did you do to study for the pants?
Study Strategies for PANCE Success
00:07:39
Speaker
What did I do to study for the pants? So I feel like I could have definitely been more organized and more on top of it, but
00:07:51
Speaker
whatever I did seem to work as I pass. So I'm not gonna put myself down too much. But I would say that I started seriously studying. I started to like, I took a break after we graduated. It's like, I didn't go back to studying right away. But then once I was like a month out from the pan side, that's when I like really started
00:08:17
Speaker
to like, okay, now I have to like crack open the book and start studying. So I did and I used mainly pants prep pearls as my like, you know, guideline. I printed out the, or I had like a, the NCCP blueprint. So I made sure to go through like, you know, each topic so I wouldn't miss something.
00:08:44
Speaker
And I used Roch as like a for questions. And I also used the Panspangry 600 question book by Dwayne Williams. I used that for practice questions as well, which was nice because he had like explanations for why this answer was right and these answers are wrong. So I did that like about a week
00:09:11
Speaker
week, two weeks out from the pants, I took the NCCPA practice exam. I think I took version B, which for some reason people tend to take because it was like a little harder or something. So I took that and based on that, I kind of gauged where I focused my last two weeks of studying, like I did really bad for whatever reason on like E and T. So I started with that and then I went through the other topics.
00:09:41
Speaker
that I scored more poorly on. I also really liked the cram the pants, I think it was cram the pants, yeah, cram the pants videos on YouTube. I felt they were really helpful. They kind of went through most of the different subject areas. And they also had like a 50 or some odd questions at the end to like go through, like
00:10:09
Speaker
quick rapid fire question and answer. So I felt like that was beneficial for me. I'm kind of like a, you know, crammer anyway, when I'm studying. So that's pretty much the gist of what I did. I would say I didn't study all day, every day, up until maybe like a week, week and a half.
00:10:32
Speaker
up until I had the pants. That's when I would like every day I was just like, all I did was wake up, study or wake up, take an exam, practice exam. I probably only did like one or two days of like hardcore. Okay, let me do like a mock pants, right? And do 300 questions and see how I did.
00:10:52
Speaker
I probably only did that like one or two days. The other days I did practice questions, but I wouldn't do like 300 questions. So that was like what would kill for me. But yeah, that's pretty much what I did to study. Do you feel like Rosh was good enough? The difficulty was good enough when you took the pants? Yeah. So I debated on getting you world, right? Cause I know a lot of people really recommended taking that and I even considered it,
00:11:22
Speaker
And I didn't want to pay for it. I was being cheap. And then I found somebody who like was going to like give it to me for like half of the price or something, but I ended up not doing it because I was just like, you know what? I already paid for the NCCPA practice exam. I think they even paid for like a ROSH mock chance exam. So I was like, I don't want to pay more money. So.
00:11:46
Speaker
Let me just, cause I've heard people, like some of my friends, they did well without, you know, getting new world. So I was like, I think I could do well without getting new world. I know like you world has like more, like the difficulty is higher and it's, the format apparently is more closer to what is seen on pants. I mean, you can tell me Sebring cause you had new world. So I felt like,
00:12:16
Speaker
I felt like Rosh was good enough for me, but, you know, I don't know. And then when I took the exam, I felt like the questions were fair. I felt like, you know, I don't know if it's because I've been studying so much, but I felt like the pants itself was a lot easier than like our end of curriculum exam, which was also written by NCCPA.
00:12:44
Speaker
Um, and it was even like easier than the packer. I don't know, but that's, that's what I felt. I, I came out of the pans feeling like, okay, not that I liked did amazing, but I felt like, okay, I felt pretty good about it. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I passed. I don't know, like to my own horn, but I feel pretty good about it. Cause a lot of the questions I like either knew the answer or I was able to like narrow it down somewhat. So yeah, that was my experience.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think if your program specifically buys rush for you, I don't think you need really anything else. There's so many questions on there that you can take so many questions and cover everything that would be on the exam for sure.
00:13:31
Speaker
I did get you world. I was meeting with a professor of our professor K and she was like really worried, but just an extra help. And she's kind of starting this thing in the program where a professor would kind of oversee helping students pass exams and do it on the program. So she recommended that like, okay, let me get it. I'm willing to spend a couple hundred dollars for it.
00:14:01
Speaker
I liked it. I did like three fourths of it when I was studying. It's exactly the same format as pants. The exact same format, like it looks the same, same layout and everything, but I did feel those questions are a bit harder than the pants. They were still helpful, especially with the more common questions, but the thing with I've realized with any question bank
00:14:26
Speaker
especially for PA education is there's so many one-off weird questions that's hard to get a really good score and you're like practice exams because it's not the general things that you will find generally on the exam there's so many questions so they have to go into these weird
00:14:44
Speaker
you'll never see on the pants questions, but they have them in there and you don't get it right. I'm like, crap, I feel stupid. I'm not gonna do well. It creates this thing, but I feel like you can do well on the Ron Roche or just you world, or you probably wouldn't wanna just do smarty pants. That's a little bit too easy. But yeah, when I was doing my pants, I did feel like
00:15:12
Speaker
The question stems are pretty common, but I felt like it was much easier to eliminate question or answer questions, the answers, which was I felt like you were it was harder to do that. Even rush sometimes it's harder to do that. So I did feel like that was easier in that way. But
00:15:33
Speaker
But overall, any question bank that you do probably will do well in. If you take the time to go through them and really cover questions and look up things you don't do as well or don't know as well, I think that would be the most helpful for the pants. I agree. And I also forgot to mention, I did use smarty pants up until my subscription expired. So I was like using smarty pants like for a little
00:16:02
Speaker
portion of the time I was studying for the pants, but not the whole portion. So yeah, that was another resource I used, but I wouldn't recommend getting every single question bank that exists, because I think it's just, one, it's overwhelming, and two, you're not gonna get through everything. One or two is, I think, more than enough, in addition to studying the topics itself.
00:16:31
Speaker
Yeah, you definitely overload yourself. And I think I have a beef a little bit. It's just marketing. But there's so many influencers and people in this space, especially pants prep that I feel like they really take advantage of students anxiety.
00:16:48
Speaker
And so they almost make like, you have to do my thing. I'm providing the thing that's going to make you pass. And everyone's doing that. And no one knows for certain, because his pants is kind of mysterious. You only really know what it is until you take it. Even the practice tests, I took both of them.
00:17:07
Speaker
I felt like they're much harder than the pants. There's so many weird, super difficult farm questions on those things. I felt I took the one, the first one did okay, did worse on the second one, the B one, I felt like it was much harder. Like, man, I don't have time to go into depth and memorize every farm thing about everything that they could possibly test on for pharmacology as that was overwhelming.
00:17:36
Speaker
But yeah, you do not need just do something you were doing in a clinical year and that'll probably be good enough to pass the pants.
Predicting PANCE Success and Mental Preparation
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think if you've been doing well up until this point, at least passing, I don't think it's an issue.
00:17:56
Speaker
I tried to see if there was like a scale to score. I was like curious to see, like, cause you know how they say based on your pack rat to score, it's supposed to correlate to whether or not you pass the pants. And so like, it gives you a grade of what you would get on the pants. I definitely didn't score as high as that predicted on the pants. I mean, obviously it's the past, but, um, yeah, I guess it just,
00:18:26
Speaker
tells you whether or not you're likely ahead of passing. And I think our program too, we have a pretty technical researcher, person, professor, and statistical guy. And last year, five people didn't pass the pants in our class. They kind of freaked out for our class. And they really made sure that
00:18:51
Speaker
the standards that they were choosing for pass rates for like the end of curriculum and pack rat and all the things as they used for predictors for the pants in the past really made sure that they would be good predictors.
00:19:07
Speaker
pants success in the future and yeah I felt comfortably I was comfortably within that thing and I felt like it translated to a comfortable pants pass. So hopefully programs are that in tune to kind of help a student out.
00:19:23
Speaker
rather than like the pack rats aren't graded or anything to really to measure success. And hopefully that helps you know, like I'm heading in the right direction for the end of curriculum or pants. So I don't have to change a lot. I just can't keep doing what I'm doing. And hopefully for your mental state, that will help as well. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, Seawear, I know our situation is a little different because, you know, um,
00:19:53
Speaker
Well, I don't know if you want to get into it now, but I wanted to ask you, how much studying do you think you would have needed or need to take the pants? If you graduated December 2nd, would you have taken it as soon as you can?
00:20:14
Speaker
or what would be your- That's a great question. I wouldn't have done what some of my friends have done in the program. Some other guys took it as soon as possible, December 12th, 14th, 17th. I wouldn't have done that. I would have waited till January so I can enjoy my Christmas and kind of a little of a break. And I really felt like,
00:20:40
Speaker
actually the time frame that I took, I felt really comfortable because I was able to prepare mentally as well as studying for like a month of intense study and not like intense study, but really only three weeks of intense study. But just to get my mind right for it, I probably would have done it maybe mid to late January, even if we didn't have the little pickup. Yes, I call it so.
00:21:09
Speaker
You know, I think I'm the same way. Like I, my friends too, they all took it in December and I was just like, Oh my God, you're taking it in December. That's so crazy. But then I'm like, I kind of get it because I'm like, you're already in school mode or in study mode. And plus they wanted to enjoy their Christmas break too. So they wanted to take it and then be able to be, you know, out of sight, out of mind.
00:21:33
Speaker
So I get that, but I think for me, I would have taken it probably like, yeah, mid January-ish and had like a solid, you know, at least two, two and a half weeks to study before taking it, you know.
00:21:48
Speaker
Before we move on to a different topic, I've heard people doing crazy things to study like eight-hour days. I was thinking that I would be motivated to do that. Well, in December, I was trying to study at home like I usually do, and I got so burnt out I couldn't do more than an hour or two.
00:22:08
Speaker
And then I went to the library house. I had this plan of going to the library. But at the time, my wife was on bedrest. I had to basically do everything. So I felt like I couldn't leave for several hours to go to the library. And I finally did in January. And it was so amazing. This is what I've been missing. It wasn't a motivation issue. It was a location issue. And I usually studied six hours, Monday through Friday.
00:22:35
Speaker
for two, two and a half weeks to three weeks. And that was enough time for me. So you don't have to go crazy, 12 hour days, you're just going to get yourself burnt out.
00:22:46
Speaker
good chunk. I usually stuck to six hours because the pants is five, so I'm already increasing my stamina for the pants just with studying, and then you throw in a couple mocks, the mock exams, and you know what to expect, basically, and you're able to sit down for that long, which I kind of tried doing.
00:23:09
Speaker
more than that. I tried to do more than that. And I just, my brain stopped working and I was not motivated to do anything. I just needed to take a break. So. Yeah. I think a lot of people, it's not even like answering the questions. It's like having the stamina to answer the questions and to focus, you know, so I think it's really important to do at least one mock exam just to kind of, and like pretend it's the real thing, you know, like wake up at a certain time that you normally have to wake up to
00:23:38
Speaker
take your exam, sit down and like only take your, you know, allotted breaks, you know, like don't take extra breaks, you know, and just to get an idea of like, can I do this, you know, am I mentally prepared? So I would recommend definitely doing that before the exam. Yeah. And I kind of mentioned it before, but I heavily mentally prepared for this. I, I,
00:24:09
Speaker
It sounds really cheesy so I love taking showers so I say affirmations in showers after showers during the day during my exam like my study time also like mentally like I'm taking it on this day. This is a great day to take it and this told myself all these narratives in
00:24:26
Speaker
I felt like I was doing that for weeks, days, day after day after day for a few weeks. And I felt like that really helped. Also her too, that it's good to visit the place. So you're not adding the extra stress of trying to figure out where you're supposed to go before you take the pants. So I did that. Luckily I wasn't too far away. I only had to travel an hour, 50 to 60 minutes. So I did that once.
00:24:52
Speaker
I went there, scoped out the place, know exactly where to go. So that felt nice. So when I actually took the pants, if it was a familiar place, I wasn't anything new. And it just was a natural progression and it didn't feel scary. And I think that really helped me have a mindset of success and focus during my exam to really help me succeed in that. Yeah, I don't think it's cheesy at all. Like the
00:25:20
Speaker
whole motivational, I think that's like really smart actually. Cause I think it like gets you in that mental state of like, yes, I can do this. Like, you know, I've got this, like I'm taking the pants this day. I'm going to take it. It's going to be great. You know, like everything will work out. Cause I think that like half the battle is, you know, a mental thing. Like a lot of people, you know, have test anxiety and they get really, really nervous, you know, and that's what causes them to fail. Not because they don't know the material, but because, you know, they're so anxious about like, you know,
00:25:50
Speaker
doing well that they can't even think like that's why I don't know for me like when I go into an exam I'm not even thinking about like oh you know how am I going to do like I just I'm just there like I see it almost like I don't know it's kind of weird to say but I see it almost as like a challenge like a game you know so to speak and I'm like okay what's the internet this question like it's like almost like answering trivia for me so it's like a fun thing to do I mean five hours is a little long
00:26:15
Speaker
but that's how I go into test. And I think it's also really smart how you like scoped out the area where my exam was. I actually been there before, cause there's like a mall, it's within like a mall type area. So I kind of already knew the layout. So I actually switched my testing day just because like, so I don't know if you didn't do this, Nancy bring, but I did, I kind of got like,
PANCE Exam Experience and Job Application Strategies
00:26:42
Speaker
cold feet at one point. I had the day set in mind. I was going to take it on a Saturday. And then I was like, I spoke with like our professor and she's like kind of coaching me through, you know, like she would like check in with me. I was like, Oh, how do you feel? And I'm like, you know what? Like I, I feel like I could just get a little bit more studying. I'll feel more confident, you know, and I'll do better. So I actually pushed it by like a few days and, um,
00:27:12
Speaker
I pushed it, I think from like a Saturday to a Tuesday and then from a Tuesday to a Friday and then back to on Thursday. So like I did a couple switching, but once I like found like the testing date, like the testing center I wanted, the time I wanted, I was like, okay, this is the time I, this is, this is when I'm going to take the exam. And like by the time, like a few days before the exam rolled around, I was like, okay, I'm so sick of studying. Like I'm just ready to take it. That's why I knew I'm like, okay, I'm going to take this day. I'm not going to.
00:27:40
Speaker
keep switching things around. So I think that could be detrimental too. It's nice to have the flexibility to be able to move it if you don't feel ready, but it's also like, I think kind of dangerous to keep on pushing it back, pushing it back, you know?
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I felt like when I actually signed up for the first time, that really helped me get into the mindset of taking the pants. Because before it was like this, you know, in the air ambiguous thing, like, I'm going to take it, I'm going to spend $550 on it. When I actually did it, it felt much more real. And I was able to prepare for it better, I felt like.
00:28:17
Speaker
So that initial step, it takes a little bit because it's a lot of money and all these implications, but I thought that was really good too for me. And also, one last thing.
00:28:30
Speaker
It's kind of, I've been in therapy over the years and it's a cool trick is when we tell ourselves that we're going to fail, we're going to have to do, we're not smart. That's actually, we're lying to ourselves. We actually look back and tell ourselves the truth. We realize that
00:28:48
Speaker
We just got through PA school. We passed all our important exams. I've done decent on the PACRAT, did decent in the curriculum. I should do well on the pants. There's no reason for me not to do that. There's no reason for me not to succeed this one more time as well. And telling ourselves that truth helped me specifically get through those tough days a few days before and after.
00:29:13
Speaker
And so all those techniques I think are very helpful to get your mind right. Because I think that's half the battle of taking because it's a high stakes, but it doesn't have to be. And when I was taking the exam, I want to I wanted to talk to this to the podcast. I went in there and I was excited to take it. It sounds kind of crazy.
00:29:39
Speaker
But I got I got such in a flow. I haven't had this with any other test. The end of curriculum a little bit. I was such in a flow. And I think it was from all the preparation and the timing, the time didn't seem too long. I wasn't fatigued at the end like I was for the end of curriculum exam. And even the breaks towards the end were too long. I took a five minute break, a 10 minute break in my last two 15 minute breaks. And towards the end, I was like,
00:30:08
Speaker
I just want to take this. This is too much of a break and I'm ready to take it. And it worked out for me. And hopefully lots of people can have that fun experience of taking of just being such a flow state that you're you're going to you know, you're going to pass. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I felt similar to like when I was taking it, like I actually got there early and I went in early and
00:30:34
Speaker
they were, I was checking in and she was like, all right, like, are you ready to go and, you know, just meet the proctor and then go to take your exam. I was like, oh, I can, I can start already. I'm like, okay. Like I didn't, I wasn't prepared to take it early, but I'm like, okay, let's go. And, um, yeah, the same thing. Like once I got like, every time I did the section, I felt like more and more accomplished. And I was like, oh yeah, like I'm getting through this, you know, like it was like kind of energizing, energizing me almost. So yeah, I kind of felt similar too.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah, and the testing center, I wanted to touch on this briefly. So it's Pearson testing center. It seems intense when you go in there, you get your hand scanned, everything's monitored, you have to put your stuff in a locker outside. So when you take the exam, you go through, get your hand scanned, you have to take everything out of your pockets and show them. You go get tested and then you raise your hand. And like the break pops up on the thing. So I was worried that
00:31:32
Speaker
I wouldn't know what to do for the break and I was going to lose time, but everything's pretty simple. And then you go out, you get your hand scanned again, and then you just chill, eat, do whatever. And then you get your hand scanned again. So you could probably do your hand scan like 20 times. So just to warn everyone, it's not scary, but just another thing to help you mentally prepare like, oh, this is going to happen. And then it's normal. So yeah, someone told me like, Oh, you have to get fingerprinted. And I was like, Oh,
00:32:02
Speaker
god like that sounds like a lot like so intense but i'm thinking like old school fingerprints where like they stamp you or something but it's just like yeah exactly so you put your um your hand on there and they scan it they're just like making sure you're the person taking the exam you know but yeah everybody was super nice there as well
00:32:20
Speaker
I was going to say something else, but I already forgot, but it's okay. It'll come back soon. So how we're going to switch gears a little bit now to jobs. So have you been looking for a job? Do you do have an offer? You have accepted an offer?
00:32:35
Speaker
So I actually I kind of went crazy during I was like so anxious about like landing a job during PA school was like I hear people like getting job offers during while they're still in rotation. So I was like, I feel like I need to like start looking for jobs now.
00:32:54
Speaker
and so I was actually like towards my last rotation or two I was like actively applying for jobs and some people were like oh that's a waste I'm not going to do that but I was just like it doesn't hurt to apply you know why not so I did apply and I did have a couple job interviews during my last rotation and I did turn like one down because like the pay was like
00:33:23
Speaker
not great. And it was like an area that it wasn't that interested in. But I did actually land a job offer
00:33:35
Speaker
that in an area that I'm interested in, which is surgery, the only downside is that because I moved to Jersey, I'd have to travel to New York where I live in the Bronx to go there. So I am currently also looking at other job offers. So I'm still like actively applying.
00:34:02
Speaker
So that's kind of where I'm at and I'm not, I'm not in a rush to like, they, they, they extend me the job, like verbally. I haven't like signed anything yet, you know, cause I'm still waiting for my license anyway. Um, so I'm just kind of like, I mean, as PAs, we have so many opportunities, I feel like, you know, like the jobs are out there, you know, you just have to kind of like do your research and look for them. Um, so, uh, yeah, I'm just kind of like casually applying here and there.
00:34:30
Speaker
at whatever. I actually have an interview, um, supposed to be yesterday, but it got pushed until tomorrow for a neurosurgery position in the city in New York city. So, um, I'm excited for that. Um, and I don't know, we'll, we'll see what happens. I'll let you know where I end up, but, uh, yeah. Awesome. That's really awesome. I worry. Have you been looking like, where do you look to usually apply for these jobs?
00:34:57
Speaker
apply for jobs. Um, so for me, I so I honestly, my first like, go to is just like, Google searching. So I go on Google, and I type in, decision assistant jobs near and my code. And I go through there.
00:35:17
Speaker
But I also like have Indeed, I go on Indeed a lot. I also go on LinkedIn, I have a LinkedIn profile. So sometimes, like, especially if you have a lot of connections, like sometimes certain jobs will pop up based on like your, it says, you have this many connections at work there, you know, so it's kind of nice to have.
00:35:41
Speaker
I, where else do I look for jobs? Sometimes I'll have recruiters actually contact me, but I have some recruiter contact me either via LinkedIn or I guess through Indeed that they've contacted me. I've used, our school has like a career center website. So I've put my resume on that and I've like looked through jobs for that.
00:36:09
Speaker
I haven't done that too much, but that's also another resource. And where else have I done it? There is something else that I'm forgetting.
00:36:26
Speaker
It'll come to me. Interesting. That's really interesting. They've had success with that. LinkedIn, I've had so many, not so many, but several of the jobs positions have been completely unrelated to the PA world. And maybe because I have like five connections, but I only did it because the career person said that the people will look on
00:36:52
Speaker
like the recruits or people will look on your LinkedIn. And I don't have any other social media because I deleted it all. But I did that. And it's actually really cool that the place that I accept the offer, she, I put on there, like I put the podcast, all this stuff. And she said, this is so cool that you have a podcast. My daughter is thinking about becoming a PA and she's listened to this and it's been helpful. So that's been kind of cool to have that be a thing from LinkedIn, some success, but I detest it mostly because it looks exactly like Facebook.
00:37:22
Speaker
And I hate Facebook. So if it works, that's great. It works for people. But indeed has been my success. There's been so many positions and most of it, they link to the actual website of the place. If they didn't, I would just I hated going through Indeed portal. I would just go and find their actual website and apply through there. But there's so many places. Indeed is probably the number one to go to. If you still can't find anything, maybe like
00:37:50
Speaker
what you were saying that's really interesting and maybe also AAPA board. Yeah I was gonna say yeah AAPA is another resource definitely like go on their website and then like literally what I would do is because I moved to Jersey so I don't know like I know New York City really well like the hospital systems there but I don't know Jersey so I'm like okay where can I even apply like I literally go on Google Maps and see like
00:38:15
Speaker
Cause I know I want to work in a hospital, at least for my first job. So I'll just see, okay, like what hospitals are nearby me. And then I'll go on the. I'll click on the hospital. Okay. Let me Google the hospital and then go on their career website. I think that's also been more helpful too. That's how I've had to look up like my interview tomorrow. I literally went on their hospital website and I applied through their career portal. And then even if you just do a Google search and you look for jobs, like it'll usually link you to their career portal. And it's annoying to have to like fill out.
00:38:45
Speaker
Like when you post your resume, like, you know, you just want to post your resume and be done with it, but like sometimes you'll have to fill out their, all your credentials in their portal, you know, which is annoying, but it's like a necessary evil. It's like, okay, if you really want this job, you're going to take the time to fill this out, you know? So it takes a little bit of time. It's a little tedious, but you'll be happy when you care back, you know? So, um, yeah.
00:39:10
Speaker
I don't know if it's just, I don't know if you've experienced this or not, but I've had success with just a cover letter and a resume. A lot of times they don't even have you have a cover letter, but the combination of that, you don't have to do anything super fancy for your first job. Just even like everything was pending for me, pending certification, pending license.
00:39:33
Speaker
And that was good enough. And they appreciate, they appreciate me despite those things. And they knew, cause you know, you knew what they're getting into for hiring new grads. So that's not an issue when you are looking for a job. Yeah. And like when I applied to jobs too, especially when I was like back in.
Exploring PA Roles and Job Market Opportunities
00:39:51
Speaker
before I even graduated, I would specifically also kind of look for jobs that were new grad friendly. Not that you necessarily like need to accept a job that specifically states in the job description, okay, open to new grads. If it says specifically like, we're not looking for new grads, then obviously we don't apply there. You know, if it doesn't say anything then, or if it says one to two experience, one to two years experience, like you could probably apply there, you know, but you know, it's just to like boost my own confidence. Sometimes I would just like look for jobs specifically like that said,
00:40:21
Speaker
that were new grad friendly. So I type in, you know, physician assistant jobs, new grad, you know, zip code. So that was another thing that I did. Yeah, it's always nice to because you kind of feel more appreciated. My the job I accepted was that way. I applied to one and then like right after applied,
00:40:42
Speaker
the opening that I really wanted opened up. So I applied to that one and I got the other one that I really wanted. So that is nice, especially in Connecticut. There's a lot of those jobs that are new grad, like welcome to apply, which is nice to see. You know, Connecticut's a really PA friendly state, which is really nice. So hopefully other states are like that as well. Yeah.
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah, states and also like hospital systems too, like, you know, some of them even say, like, I forget which hospital system, but it was just like, oh, you know, we're like in their job description, they're like, we're, we hire, you know, we love PAs, like, you know, like, they're very PA friendly, which is nice to see, you know, not all.
00:41:28
Speaker
Um, another thing I did for job search is what I also looked for nurse practitioner jobs too. So like I didn't just limit, I didn't just search PA, you know, I would search PA slash MP because you know, technically can do the same thing. Um, there probably are some nuances where like.
00:41:49
Speaker
Maybe if you work at a certain clinic, you need to, they like the NP just because they don't have to practice under, maybe for some billing purposes. I don't know exactly how that works, but don't limit yourself to just looking for physician assistant positions. You can look for nurse practitioner positions as well.
00:42:13
Speaker
It's interesting. It's very interesting. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, like some might prefer because of that, you know, supervision and things like that. But a lot of times, they don't care. They're very interchangeable. So that's really cool. Awesome. So do you want to go into our Snafu? And we were in the same situation pretty much. Do you want to go first?
Handling Challenging Rotations and Advocacy
00:42:42
Speaker
So, where do I start? Where do I begin? Okay, we'll see where I cut this whole part out. Power of editing. Power of editing.
00:42:53
Speaker
So I, so, you know, clinical rotations, every preceptor is different. Every experience is different. Some preceptors are better than others. Some are going to get along with some, not so much. So I had a rotation in which the preceptor and I, we just, you know,
00:43:17
Speaker
For whatever reason, I felt like she had been dead against me. She didn't really care for me too much. I don't know. I think I'm a pretty easy to get along person, but we kind of have like a little minor misunderstanding. And I think from there, you know, things just didn't really improve. And when it came to my mid rotation eval,
00:43:44
Speaker
my preceptor basically said like, yeah, I don't think you're gonna pass this rotation. I was just like, what? Like, oh my God. So I tried my hardest, I did everything I did, and I pretty much stuck up to her just to pass. And I ended up getting a passing grade, like I got a B in the course. However, our school has a stipulation, if you get below a certain score on a certain skill or whatever,
00:44:13
Speaker
you still have to repeat the rotation, which I wasn't aware of until it happened to me. So then I knew, even though I technically passed the rotation, I have to repeat it. So I had to repeat my family medicine rotation. I was able to appeal that decision and get it cut in half. So instead of having to repeat the whole rotation, I only had to repeat half a rotation because I did so well in all my
00:44:42
Speaker
following rotations, because my family med was like one of my first rotations. So even though I graduated in December, in January, I had to repeat that rotation at a different, you know, clinic. So it was, it was fine. But yeah, that's pretty much what I had to experience. So it, it also cut into my study time as well. Like I feel like I would have taken, um,
00:45:12
Speaker
the pants sooner had I not, you know, and had I, that was another reason why I pushed it back a couple of days. I was like, I feel like I wasn't able to study as much during when I was repeating my rotation. So I need a couple more days just to like solidify my knowledge. So yeah, but hey, everything, everything worked out so.
00:45:32
Speaker
That's great. So you were able to appeal it, and basically what you said was, did you say because I'd done so well my previous, did you fail one of your first rotations you said? It was, so I had ER, I had my capstone, I had pediatrics, and then I had family meds. So it was like my third-ish, fourth-ish rotation, if you count capstone, it was my fourth rotation, yeah.
00:46:00
Speaker
And when was the decision to reduce it? When did that take place? So I had appealed it like maybe a month after I had appealed it. And these things take a while, you know, the decision to reduce it in half, I couldn't even tell you when I would literally have to look back at emails, but it wasn't right away, but it was like, um,
00:46:27
Speaker
maybe a few months after, because I didn't really hear anything back for a while. I was just kind of going through emotion, going through school, because I was still in my clinical year trying to get through each clinical. I was like, you know what? My goal right now is just to do well on every single clinical from here on out. I need no excuses for me to delay my graduation and more for anything to happen. So I just flew under the radar after that and tried to just do well.
00:46:55
Speaker
not have any mishaps. So yeah, I would say like a few months after is when I heard back about that. And I appealed it to try to get it like completely, you know, obviously.
00:47:09
Speaker
But I also think I did give the suggestion of perhaps doing half rotation. I tried to give options to at least put it in their heads. I think I heard of someone who had a reduced rotation, but it was a different scenario. I think it was because of COVID reasons they had to repeat a rotation because they missed so much of a rotation. So obviously I didn't miss my rotation because of COVID.
00:47:37
Speaker
I just didn't score well. I still believe I shouldn't have had to repeat that rotation because technically I passed and I still did well on those skills and other rotations, but we won't get into that.
00:47:53
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's the part that's so important. This is to advocate for yourself because the initial ruling is repeated rotation. But you went after the fact and advocated for yourself even more to even reduce it more. Our school's policy, because I was in the same situation, but different situation. But the school's policy is to be fair to the other people that had to repeat. We're going to steal a poll. They start to do something, but we won't make you do all of it.
00:48:22
Speaker
which is great. So there's always ways to advocate for yourself, especially in PE school. So hopefully your program is professional enough to let you advocate for yourself and not to retaliate in any way. So that's great. I think it's important to advocate for yourself because originally I wasn't going to say anything. I was just going to be like going to take the L, you know.
00:48:52
Speaker
But I was like, they gave you the option to appeal. Like, why not? And then someone really encouraged me to do it. They're like, Christina, just appeal. What's the worst they're going to say? No. At least you tried. You put yourself out there. And I'm obviously glad I did, because I wouldn't have had to repeat the whole rotation instead of just half the rotation.
00:49:13
Speaker
So I'm glad I said something. I'm glad I stood up for myself. And I did make good points. I'm like, I have been doing well. I understand their point. They had this preceptor for how many years? So they know the preceptor. I'm like, OK, yeah, that's sure. But I'm like, yeah, but you know me. You know how I am. I'm like, I'm not some.
00:49:36
Speaker
person that doesn't know, you know, like, you know, like, I'm a, I'm a good student, like, so, I don't know, I think I, I'm, yeah, I'm glad I stood up for myself. And I'm also glad to like, because it was like, something I was like, kind of, I mean, I was ashamed of it a little bit, but not really, like, for me, I'd rather get the word out there to like, you know, like, I like being honest, I like being open about like,
00:50:04
Speaker
maybe sometimes too much about what I'm going through, because it helps me when I talk to other people about what I'm going through. Even just like, oh man, that exam was so hard. It helps me talk to other people about it and make me feel like it's not so much alone. So I'm glad I
00:50:23
Speaker
you know, spoke to UC bring and I felt like it really helped. I don't know if you feel it the same way, but I feel like it really helped to like talk to someone else who's in a similar situation and like we could kind of just like bend to each other and like come up with, you know, just like, see like, okay, what do you think about this? You know, cause I think that's how like change happens. Like, you know, if you don't speak up about stuff, like things will just get sucked out of the rug, you know, and no one will, will know if you don't say something. So.
00:50:50
Speaker
Well, your perfect guest for this podcast says, that's the reason I started this podcast. So I was in didactic gear and feel like I was failing everything. Everyone, like no one would talk about if they even thought about like potentially failed something. I felt very alone, but during clinical year, I think
00:51:10
Speaker
being more comfortable around people and people knowing me and knowing them and meeting, like talking with you and other situations, things became a lot more transparent, which was nice to, I really believe insane boat therapy. It's really nice to be with people that are in the same boat as you.
00:51:27
Speaker
same situation and kind of how you're dealing with it and to support each other and also help each other because we're helping each other right now trying to get our licenses because the holdup right now is our transcripts and that's frustrating and we're like both in communication with the program to see and also loan stuff.
00:51:51
Speaker
for me, I took out an extra hefty loan, but actually works out great for me to pay for the two credits or two and a half credits. But the school stole like charged us or me, I'm not sure if they charged you yet, for a whole semester with a program which is $15,000. But I do $15,000 worth of a semester. So I'm trying to get that figured out too. So that's frustrating. But
00:52:20
Speaker
It is awesome to know situations of people and it's hopefully this is more of a thing because some people might label as complaining but this is serious stuff and you kind of need to know if other people are in the same situation.
00:52:36
Speaker
because you might do things differently or you can advocate yourself a little bit differently depending on what someone else did. For instance, there's another friend of ours that almost had to repeat, but likely someone, what his advisor told him to say this thing. I was a little initially upset about it because no one told me that initially and how to advocate myself in a certain way.
00:53:00
Speaker
But just knowing that there's different situations and how people handle it is very helpful and important. So how was your makeup rotation? How did that go for you? So my makeup rotation went really well.
00:53:15
Speaker
It was actually with a former alum from Sacred Heart. So that was cool. And she's super nice. She's super like, you know, she's super understanding too. Like I kind of told her my situation with having to repeat the rotation. So she was just like, you know, she just hated that for me. But yeah, she was very low key. You know, she was just like,
00:53:40
Speaker
pretty much do as much or as little as I wanted to do. So like I was in study mode. So I liked, like, you know, if there was like a question that I had gone over that I wasn't really sure about or like a topic, you know, it was nice to like bounce ideas off her. So that was really nice. And yeah, I had a completely different but really good experience at my rotation. So it would, I think it was like a nice little, you know, wrap up before I took a pants.
00:54:11
Speaker
Awesome, that's really great. That's good that someone understood your plight and really helped you out. Yeah, it made me feel validated for sure.
00:54:22
Speaker
So I'm going to do a Cliff Notes version of mine, or if people don't know what Cliff Notes is, a TikTok version, a really short version for me. But so this same thing, third rotation. I thought I was doing all fine on the rotation. I contacted the preceptor about doing my mid evaluation.
00:54:45
Speaker
And he didn't get to it until a week before I was done with the rotation and told me, you know, there's some issues, but I passed you. And it comes down to the final, like an hour or two left of the rotation. I get a call and like, Hey, can you meet with us? The committee? And I was like, what? I get in there. They told me I failed the rotation. I'm like almost in tears, but luckily I had a mask on. So I was like.
00:55:11
Speaker
tears, welling, all like, what's going on? And I talked to the preceptor that I was with most of the time, and he said, hey, did anyone contact you about my performance or anything like that? And he said, no, you did an amazing job. I told him I failed, like, you did an amazing job, you had no issues. I come to find out during the, because you do appeal it, basically you're forced to appeal it, right? Kind of your side of the story and present it to them.
00:55:38
Speaker
I did and I've come to find out because he has the evaluation he goes through with me.
00:55:45
Speaker
that the preceptor that said I did great was on the person that was contacted. He was one of the people that he used cited for this evaluation. That was the first red flag. And then there are some other things too. I eventually found out through this process, he didn't get contacted. So the only other person that was
00:56:10
Speaker
on that evaluation, I only had the first two weeks of my rotation. So my whole rotation was judged on my first two weeks. And he, I think he accidentally failed me, but they kept it because there was some other issues of medical knowledge that I didn't know coming into this because my evaluations were so late, I never knew the score until it was too late. And there was issues, apparently,
00:56:37
Speaker
Um, so my confidence was shattered and I started the new year kind of like limping into clinical years. Just, I didn't know what to do. I thought I was doing okay, but I'm not doing okay. But luckily the rotations after that had really good preceptors really helped me kind of get my bearings into my orthopedic rotations. I really hit my stride. I really felt confident.
00:56:59
Speaker
And that really boosted me. And then my last rotation, my elective rotation orthopedics was loving it, was with an amazing classmate of mine. And he is so funny. He was like, Sebring, you can do anything. You're so awesome. All this stuff. He's super humble. And he's like amazing. Probably one of the smartest kids in our class. And I get the idea of
00:57:22
Speaker
because this is a primary care rotation. I'll have to take a test. I'll have to do anything. Like there's no point. I already did. I also, I already did another rotation, my family medicine rotation and urgent care. And I did amazing. So there was literally no point to doing this extra rotation. So I got up the gumption to email the program director, like this is unfair. The, and the shouldn't stand. And I eventually,
00:57:49
Speaker
went and talked with him and told him all laid out why this is unfair, how the preceptor was unethical and lying in this thing. And he was initially impressed like Sebring, something's happening, like you're so confident, this is amazing. And I was able to get it down to two weeks as well. So advocating for yourself is very important. And then going into and also at that time, I was like, this is stupid.
00:58:14
Speaker
I want to be done like every other one of my classmates. I felt like this is very unfair. But the repeat rotation was out of urgent care. And, you know, you just never know who the preceptor is, how it's going to go. But mine was like extremely chill. And I only worked like four or five, six shifts. And he sent me home two, three hours early. It was amazing. He actually helped me
00:58:40
Speaker
understand some diagnosis, a little more complicated ones. And he let me do a lot. He let me basically see all the patients write notes about it, discharge them, which was kind of nice. He really treated me like an equal. And
00:58:54
Speaker
was my same age too so it was kind of cool to see him and we had similar kind of life stages he just he hasn't had kids though but married and starting his family so that was cool and he had a lot of cool advice career advice he was an NP but very intelligent very amazing and I'm
00:59:15
Speaker
glad that worked out really well. And, and I was able to study for a couple more weeks and pass the pants. So it worked out well. Yeah. I'm glad it worked out for both of us. Um, yeah, everything, everything that supposed to happen in the end will happen. That's like my belief. Um, but yeah, I think there are things that with the program that can need some tweaking need to change a little bit, especially with
Grading Criteria and Preceptor Evaluations
00:59:41
Speaker
the grading. Cause I think like,
00:59:43
Speaker
people don't realize like if you don't put meets standards, if you put like approaching competency, but not needs competency, they think like, Oh, yeah, you know, they're still in their learning stages. I'm not going to put needs competency yet, because they're still learning. Like some people, it doesn't register with them that like, yeah, but when you
01:00:02
Speaker
press that button at the end and if it doesn't say 3.0 or higher or 3.3, whatever, like you're technically failing us and they don't realize like, okay, if we fail a rotation, we're gonna have to repeat it and we're gonna have to pay money. Like when I told my preceptor, I'm like, oh yeah, and I have to pay for this. Even my friends at the program, I'm like, yeah, you guys don't realize, but I have to like not only like repeat the rotation, which sucks, but like I have to come up with X amount of money just to repeat the rotation
01:00:31
Speaker
And they're like, what? Like, I didn't know that. And I'm like, yeah, so it's, it's a, it's a big commitment. So it kind of like maybe want to feel even more so. This is what I already placed a lot of money. I have a lot of loans. I'm going to repay me. So yeah.
01:00:49
Speaker
Yeah. At times it kind of felt like a, especially now it's technically a $15,000 punishment. Hopefully it's resolved soon. Cause I need that money for like stuff like that. But, um, but yeah, you know, the program's great, but every problem, every program has, it's not perfect. Um, so
01:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, so I think yeah, I think it's important to advocate for yourself, like we said, and, and yeah, just be respectful about it and just come from like, you know, hey, this is the reasons why I feel like I don't deserve this, you know, but yeah, just come from like a humble place, but also stand up for yourself. I think it was important.
01:01:33
Speaker
Yeah. Being professional and confident really gets you a long ways. If you're nasty, no one's going to want to listen to you and everyone just becomes defensive. So yeah. Well, it's been really fun chatting with you, Christina. Hopefully everything works well with your amazing surgical jobs. Surgery is amazing. I have to admit so. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I, I do enjoy the medical aspect too. I like talking to patients and I like,
01:02:01
Speaker
you know, figure out diagnosis. So we'll see where I, where I end up. But yeah, and congrats to you for laying here job. It's exciting. It's very exciting. It's exciting to like finally see the fruits of our hard work for so long. I have been, I've been a student my whole married life. And my wife, I joke with my wife as like, your investments paying off now. Now we can have a lifestyle you were wanting when we first got married. So that's amazing.
01:02:30
Speaker
Okay, well thanks so much. See you later, Christina. Yes, alright, thank you.