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23. Meeting the Mentor
134 Plays2 years ago
This is a very exciting episode where I talk with my mentor who got me on the PA journey and now on the other side as a PA-C.
Sorry for the audio, for some reason my microphone wasn't recording. I'll have it back to normal next time.
Also, my wife just had a baby, sorry for the late episode, I might be recording less often for the next month.
Consider subscribing to the Patreon: patreon.com/ThePAExperience
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Transcript
Intro to PA School Experience
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the PA School Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Sebring Sands, and I take you through the behind the scenes look of PA School and explore what it takes to become a PA.
Meet Robert Lyman, PA Mentor
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of the podcast. I got a really awesome guest. I guess I say that every time, but this guy is even, it's pretty amazing. He's the guy that got me in to this career. He is, I guess like my first mentor. So I'm really excited for you guys to, to see our conversation and all about PA stuff, careers, how we got into the PA.
00:01:01
Speaker
world and all the fun things. So Rob, do you want to introduce yourself? Hi, my name is Robert Lyman. I'm a PA and been practicing for four years in orthopedics mostly. So I went to Drexel University for my for PA school. Yeah, anyway,
00:01:28
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being willing to chat with me. I'm taking time out of your very busy schedule. So that's really awesome.
Are High-Rated PA Schools Worth It?
00:01:38
Speaker
So is it Drexel? Drexel University. So crazy name. That's one of the OP ones, right? What? That's one of the one of the OP, sorry, OG. What does that mean? Original, OG original. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's one of the first.
00:01:57
Speaker
And it was a lot more expensive, maybe, than others. And it's highly rated. It's like in the top 10. But maybe you don't want me to say this right now. But if anyone ever asks me, should I go to one of the higher rated PA schools, I'd say, no, it's not worth it after my experience. But that's just one person's opinion. Awesome. Well, we might want to get that opinion because that seems very
00:02:27
Speaker
valuable information filler. I myself went to a very extensive school so we could talk all day about expensive tuition prices. So yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
A Day in the Life of a PA
00:02:38
Speaker
So I would have been I would have been crazy busy today. We had like three surgeries scheduled and every single one of them canceled. Okay. Yeah, what types of surgeries like replacements or Yeah, we had we had a total joint scheduled me and
00:02:55
Speaker
Um, and then I can't even remember there was a smaller case, a carpal tunnel release. And then, and then I think, uh, some hardware removal that we're going to do on a patient. So nothing crazy, but, but yeah, everything, just one person had COVID another person, one person wanted to reschedule. So.
00:03:13
Speaker
Okay, awesome. So you mentioned orthopedics and you talk like you work in orthopedics. So what kind of place do you work at? Do you work in inpatient, outpatient? And how's that been for you? Yeah, so I guess to
00:03:32
Speaker
to paint a picture because I probably work in a very unique orthopedic setting compared to some because I work in a really small hospital. I imagine most PAs that are practicing orthopedics probably work in a massive hospital with multiple orthopedic surgeons and multiple PAs.
00:03:56
Speaker
And so some will do specialty, some will do general, but it's usually a larger system. And that changes things a little bit. So I'm in a small hospital. I'm the only PA at the entire hospital. There's two doctors, a general surgeon and orthopedic surgeon.
00:04:13
Speaker
And then there's some family medicine doctors. So it kind of changes things a little bit because of that. And so I do orthopedics here, and I do a little bit of everything. I do inpatient, outpatient, and surgery, and then a little bit of ER call. But yeah, I think that's pretty much it there. Did I answer that question?
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah. And has this, is this your first job out of PA school?
How Clinical Rotations Secure Jobs
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah, this is my, this is my first job. Um, I did, which I guess, you know, beneficial for, for anyone who's going into PA school for sure. When you, when you do your clinical rotations, I, I spent a lot of time trying to set up my own clinical rotations. Um,
00:05:02
Speaker
Because I think the chance of you finding your first job at one of your sites of clinical rotation are pretty likely. And so that means two things. One, setting up your rotations where you want to potentially live. And two, when you do your clinical rotation, be the best PA friendliest, nicest person you possibly can be. Because
00:05:24
Speaker
increases your chance of getting a job and those are going to be potential referrals. And so I did a clinical rotation actually at the clinic across the way and then kind of wound up over here as my first job. Okay. So when you set those up, did you have connections where you were setting them up or like cold calling people?
00:05:45
Speaker
So most of them I had connections, but there were random connections, like two or three separations. So one of them, a person was my cousin that I don't ever talk to, her, his wife, sister,
00:06:00
Speaker
was a PA, and that's how I got one of the connections. So it was like three steps away from somebody I knew. But that's how I got one of my clinical quotations. As well as this one, I didn't know anybody here. I knew somebody who knew somebody and called. And I called like six times, because the first time they called, they were like, no, we're not taking people like you. And I kept calling. I was the squeaky wheel. And finally, they were like, yeah, we'll take you. And if I had enough, I wouldn't have this job that I have right now.
00:06:29
Speaker
And then one of the rotations I just called random places and got a clinical rotation there. I set up almost all my rotations in Utah because I wanted to practice in Utah.
00:06:42
Speaker
That's awesome. Well, that's actually a good thing to mention it because I think this really differs from PA school to PA school because we were told in our PA school, we could like set them up if we had connections to like reach out. Hey, I want you to connect you with my program director or the person setting those up.
00:06:59
Speaker
to formally create a rotation. But we weren't allowed to cold call people because I was against the accreditation of our school at the time. So I think it really differs. I think that's a fear of a lot of pre-PA students is, wait, do I have to set my own rotations up? I'm not sure exactly if any programs do that per se, where you have to do them all by yourself. I think NP students do that more than we do. But for my school, they set them all up for us.
00:07:28
Speaker
unless we have those connections. Same for here. I could have used all of the rotations through the PA program, but all of them were...
00:07:38
Speaker
on the East Coast, because that's Drexel University is in Philadelphia. And so all my rotations would have been over there. And I did do a couple rotations through the through the program. But every single rotation that I set up, I'm glad that I did, because I learned way more. And I thought they were more beneficial for me. But that's great. That's awesome. Okay, so let's rewind a little bit.
00:08:06
Speaker
How did you even get to the path you're on of becoming a
From Medic to PA: Rob's Journey
00:08:11
Speaker
PA? What kind of pushed you towards that direction? Yeah, I always wanted to go into medicine. I can't remember a time I didn't want to be a doctor or something like that.
00:08:24
Speaker
And I served a mission for my church, which was two years. And I got home from my mission and then I ended up joining the military as a medic.
00:08:39
Speaker
And around that time, when I joined the military as a medic, I ran into PA's. I didn't even know the PA career existed prior. But through the military, I was like, wow, the PA career sounds pretty awesome. And the more I looked into it, the more I thought, man, that's the route for me. And so that's what led me down the road to become a PA. And so I started taking the prereqs and all that stuff for it and just
00:09:09
Speaker
applied. And when I applied, I initially applied to all the schools that didn't acquire GRE. And I thought if I don't get in without a GRE, then I'll take the GRE and then apply again. But I got in on my first try without a GRE and just went from there.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's the same thing I did. I did not want to take the GRI because that's one of the things when I after I talked with you, I was like, just researching everything up by like, wait, I don't want to take an entrance exam. This is amazing. And luckily, the school I got into, I didn't ever have to take one. So that was amazing. So how long were you a medic for?
00:09:51
Speaker
I was a medic in the Utah Air National Guard, so not active duty, but it's a six-year enlistment. And that was an excellent experience. I think that was a huge factor that helped me in getting into PA school, just because some of the roots of the initial PA was military
Is Being a PA Better than a Doctor?
00:10:16
Speaker
men. The reason that the career was created
00:10:19
Speaker
was these medics were getting back from the military. They have tons of training. They're more trained than a nurse, but not trained to the level of a doctor. So what do we do? And they created this kind of PA career. At least that's some of the history that I recall. Anyway, and so I think that actually really helped me getting into some PA schools or getting asked to go for interviews because I had some good experience.
00:10:48
Speaker
So since kind of being exposed to the PA profession, were you ever contemplating going MD or DO route after that? Yeah, so now that I've been practicing for four years, initially when I applied, I thought, number one,
00:11:10
Speaker
PAs earn enough money that studies have shown when you get up to $200,000 to $300,000, you're not any significantly happier than earning $100,000. It doesn't make significant difference in overall life satisfaction. So I thought, what's the point of becoming a doctor?
00:11:32
Speaker
and working crazier hours and getting the crazy debt and crazy long school when there's not really any significant improvement in life satisfaction. And then also overall satisfaction in the PA career is way higher than satisfaction in doctor's careers. And so, I mean, it seems like a no-brainer. Why would you want to pick a career that has less satisfaction and higher challenges than the PA?
00:12:01
Speaker
Then I became a PA and I've been practicing four years and I can see the allure. If anyone ever wants to do surgery, if you're like, I want to be a surgeon, then don't become a PA. Become a surgeon. But if you want to practice medicine, if you want to be a family doctor, if you want to work in a specialty, PAs can do almost all the same things that doctors do, excluding surgery.
00:12:26
Speaker
And so I've loved it. And even now, still the other day, I thought, man, it could be cool to do surgery. And then I thought, no, I love right now, I do orthopedics mostly, but I just recently started doing sleep medicine.
00:12:42
Speaker
And if I was an orthopedic surgeon, I couldn't start doing sleep medicine. And it's been really interesting learning sleep medicine, diagnosing, putting people up for sleep studies, all that stuff. It's been a really fun change of pace in my career and it's something I've added on. And there's no way I could do that if I was an orthopedic surgeon or any type of surgeon. And so I love the variability that you get as a PA is just amazing. That's a good point that you touched on.
00:13:11
Speaker
the satisfaction is that I kind of blame YouTube for this. There's so many YouTube med students that make medicine like that aspect so glamorous, but you don't really understand the rigor and just of the whole profession just from those things.
00:13:32
Speaker
and then you get into actually practicing or in for my instance as a student seeing doctors seeing doctors on call and all the responsibilities they have like yeah i can understand why their satisfaction sure they're getting paid more but are they really getting paid more for the time and stress over the job i don't think so i think that's one of the things
00:13:54
Speaker
at least I've seen so far in the pee profession is we can clock in, clock out. Doctors can't really do that as much. And they have to research a lot of times, they have to do all these extra things that peas just don't have to worry about, which is amazing, which I like.
00:14:10
Speaker
And the surgery part, yes, for sure. If you're really want to do the surgeries, you have to go the doctor route. But for me, I felt like I was able to do all the fun things of surgery without all the stress and liability that a surgeon has to deal with because he's responsible for the surgery and he has to make sure they have good outcomes and the patient does all right ultimately. And we can just, you know,
00:14:38
Speaker
Little bit like just mind your train and be able to start working in there rather than a long residency and a long fellowship most of the time so There is definitely pluses. I think I think there's I mean some people are drawn to the fact that
00:14:54
Speaker
becoming a doctor because it is so challenging and so rigorous and I can get on board with that because I'm like, man, that's a butt kicker, you know, no doubt about it. But same for PAs, I mean, the level that a PA can practice can vary so much depending on how much you want. Because I know some PAs who
00:15:22
Speaker
Unfortunately, they started practicing and they read and got decently up to date. And then they're like, I don't need to study anymore. I know what I need to do as a family practitioner. And I'm like, that's lousy practice.
00:15:35
Speaker
And then I know an NP, which isn't a PA, but similar route. And everyone around here in this small town loves him because he stays up to date. He's an excellent provider. People will pick that NP over some of the doctors because he just does such an excellent job. And it's not
00:15:56
Speaker
It's not because he's an NPA or PA, it's because he cares and puts a lot of work and effort into making sure that he does quality work. And so I think that the challenge of becoming an excellent PA can be just as rigorous as a doctor, but doesn't necessarily have to be.
00:16:21
Speaker
That's a good point. You kind of mentioned that you're kind of doing other things too. Are you moonlighting anywhere else? How many extra rare things you're doing? So a couple of things. Once again, because I live in a small town, I imagine most orthopedic PAs that are working in a large town
00:16:47
Speaker
have a way busier practice and probably don't have enough time to do things outside of what they're currently doing.
00:17:02
Speaker
But me, we're slow enough that I was able to pick up sleep medicine like I already mentioned, and I've been doing that for the last couple months. And that I work with a sleep doctor, but he doesn't live here. And so I'll call him and do phone consults with patients I'm confused on.
00:17:20
Speaker
and stuff like that. So that's been interesting to do sleep medicine and then also I do wound care with the general surgeon so he'll send me wounds. I'm dealing with right now a pressure sacral ulcer that we took to the OR with the general surgeon because that's not an orthopedic problem and cleaned out and then wound back. And so I do a decent amount of wound care here and
Diverse Roles and Teaching
00:17:46
Speaker
And then with orthopedics, it's always good to manage bone health. And so I've kind of started an osteoporosis clinic managing. When anybody comes in with a fracture that's over 40, you should look into and rule out osteoporosis and optimize bone health. And so I've started doing that as well.
00:18:09
Speaker
And then I also teach at the college here, just one anatomy and physiology class, which has been fun. I don't know how much longer I'm going to do that for, but I enjoy teaching. And then I did for a while. I worked as a personal trainer. I got my undergraduate in exercise science. And so I worked as a personal trainer at the rec center just for a little bit. I haven't really done that lately, though. Man, that's awesome.
00:18:39
Speaker
your perfect exhibit A of the flexibility of the PA expression, you can do so many different things. That's one of the biggest strengths is you can add on things, you can change things up if you want to. And that's amazing. That's really cool. And I thought, you know, at some point, I don't know if I ever will. I thought potentially at some point going into primary care, just because in primary care, you get such a well rounded,
00:19:07
Speaker
knowledge base, especially if you're, if you're going to, you have to retest every 10 years in the PA profession. And so it would be really nice to, uh, hone up on primary care skills prior to the test. Awesome. So how was peaceful? How, I don't know if you want to talk about specifically about your PA school weekend, but how was peaceful in general for you?
Surviving PA School
00:19:31
Speaker
Um, I mean, just like anybody, it was, it was brutal. Uh,
00:19:37
Speaker
I think, I mean, death by PowerPoint is probably an accurate statement of what it is. And it's funny because the further away PA school gets, the less traumatizing it seems to be. I imagine if you asked me that question three months after graduating, I would have a lot more to say about how miserable it was. But now that it's been four years, it's like, oh yeah, it was rough.
00:20:06
Speaker
So definitely, and you've probably hashed out a lot of different study tactics in previous podcasts, but I would definitely, there's a lot of things that could be done to improve your memorization. I think so many people spend a lot of time doing poor study habits and make things more challenging on themselves.
00:20:32
Speaker
I was by no means the best in the class, but I did do really well. I was in the top 10% and got the Phi Alpha award for PAs and did pretty well. But that doesn't mean it wasn't challenging. It kicked my butt for sure. But I think a lot of the reason why I did well is because
00:20:54
Speaker
My undergraduate was pretty rigorous and I developed some good study habits during that time. Unlike most people, I didn't really study with other students that much because a lot of times studying with other students just meant complaining and not actually studying. And so I mostly studied by myself during graduate school.
00:21:21
Speaker
There's so many different ways to do it and do well in it. So I wouldn't say there's any good way or bad way. OK. And you kind of mentioned that it was to get expensive. Was that ever something you had to stress about during PA school or after? How has that been for you, the unknown situation?
Managing Student Loans
00:21:41
Speaker
That's a good question. I didn't worry about it during PA school because I had other things to worry about, trying to pass my classes.
00:21:50
Speaker
But for sure, because my location, I'm considered a critical access hospital, I'm eligible for a government repayment loan program. And with that, I pay the bare minimum on my loans for 10 years, and then the government repays the rest of them off. And so I haven't really stressed about my loans that much because
00:22:19
Speaker
They're just going to get paid off in 10 years, unless the government changes their mind, which does scare me a little bit. But I can't imagine they would be like, oh, in their mind, we're not paying you.
00:22:28
Speaker
your student loans are off. So I just pay the bare minimum every month. And right now I've got, because you have to fill out paperwork to get them to qualify for the repayment program and stuff like that. But right now I've got about three years of qualified payments. And so I've got seven years to go and then my student loans will be paid off. Awesome. That's really great. Yeah, I was initially stressed about that.
00:22:58
Speaker
And then I came across from a different podcast, Student Loan Planner, there's these guys that they specialize in six-figure student loan debt, and they're amazing. And I did a consult with them, my wife, and with the new Repay, which we're gonna be on, and hopefully it's the thing,
00:23:20
Speaker
I'm going to end up paying almost half of what I owe, which is amazing.
Negotiating Salary and Benefits
00:23:25
Speaker
And with my family side, it really, the new repay really benefits families with large family size because I'm going to have a baby in a couple of days and in the next few years we want more children and that's going to, that's going to reduce the monthly payment. And so I'm,
00:23:43
Speaker
ecstatic about my excel almost has 300,000 of debt. And it's really gonna take a lot of that off that but it's gonna take probably 25 years. Did you use the government repayment program or some other program? No, so just where I work, it's private, there's no PS, PSLF available. So I'm just doing the income, income driven repayment plan, the new one,
00:24:13
Speaker
So that's what I'm planning on right now. So it's pretty nice. But it's going to take a long time. And I imagine you probably earn significantly more than me. At a private company, you earn a ton more than if you work at some other locations. But it does forfeit your chance of doing the PSLF. So something maybe to consider for PAs that are getting out.
00:24:41
Speaker
If you don't mind, and you don't have to get specifics, but like general, like what, how, Brown, how much were you making when you first started there in Utah? I don't, I don't mind throwing out numbers. Let's see. So I started.
00:24:56
Speaker
Which is a huge thing. They have never hired a PA. And so they're like, oh, what do you want? And I was like, 80 grand sounds like a pretty decent starting salary for a PA who knows nothing. And so that's what they started me at.
00:25:13
Speaker
But they created a contract and then I saw it and I was like, well, I need money for education. Can I get at least a couple thousand dollars a year for education? And they're like, oh, yeah, sure. And so they gave me three grand a year for education. And then I was like, well, I need time to go to conferences. Can you give me some time off? And so they also gave me days off for conferences.
00:25:34
Speaker
And I think a lot of PAs coming out, they're just so excited that someone's looking at them. But make sure you ask for those things. Ask for, you know, do you guys pay for relocation or do you guys pay for education or do you guys pay for, you know, do you give me time off so I can actually go to these conferences so I can become an effective PA. Anyway, but I started at 80 and then they've given me some raises over the years.
00:25:59
Speaker
And then just recently, they switched. And so I'm salaried, but I also get paid on incentives. So however much I do production-wise, I also get bonuses. And so now I'm just barely into the six-figure income, which for orthopedics is pretty low.
00:26:22
Speaker
one of the, that's one of the downsides of working where I work, but what the upside is, I work in a small hospital that runs a little bit slower than what you probably deal with, Sabrina. Oh well. Yeah, so actually, I might want to ask you this in a minute, but yeah, so my starting salary is 105.
00:26:46
Speaker
which is pretty low for this area. Like neurosurgery is pretty high. I had a friend apply to neurosurgery and they're starting 140. But the cool thing about where I work is that
00:27:00
Speaker
the hours are great. I don't have to do any like going to the hospital on call, but they pay $600 and something dollars a day on the weekends and it's mandatory and it's all taking calls. So it's really chill and there's $150 an hour for this after hours urgent care that they do, which you can always do that. So my potential could be out to $130 if I'm like,
00:27:28
Speaker
working just once, potentially want to call weekend a month, I'll be making close to 130, which I really liked. And when I when I first applied them,
00:27:40
Speaker
The recruiter was so amazing. She's like, Sebring, I love your resume. We want you to come work here. And I never got there anywhere, even with Yale. Yale, I couldn't even visit them. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. I didn't feel appreciated really with any of the other people I applied at. But they really like to stay warm. Like, we want you.
00:28:01
Speaker
Everyone's excited that you're joining. I was like, yes, this is great. I think that means so much more. Perfect example here. I have a friend who went to PA school with me, graduated a year behind because he was staggered a year behind me. Anyway, he got a job. I can't remember if it was one sixth year, 180. His first job out, I think it was 180.
00:28:29
Speaker
But maybe it was 160, can't remember. Anyway, regardless though, in an ER in a different state. So one, it's far away from family. Two, his hours, I think he worked Monday, Tuesday, and then Thursday, and then Saturday, Sunday or something. I mean, his hours were atrocious. And then on top of that, he worked from, he started at 11,
00:28:59
Speaker
am and finished at like eight at night or something like that. It's just like the worst hours you could absolutely think of. And I'm like, and when I first started, and then he started a year later and he's like, oh, I got my job, I'm earning 180. And I was like, oh, what the fetch am I doing here? He's earning literally, I think it was 160. Because I remember he's like, I'm earning, I was earning 80 at the time. And I'm like, he's earning literally double what I'm earning.
00:29:29
Speaker
working and he just barely started. I've already been working a whole year, like what? But then I thought, if I could switch him, would I? And I was like, not a chance. Because he's got absolutely terrible hours. He's in a different state away from family and where he wants to be. The days he works are terrible. So not only the hours, but he doesn't get like a consecutive couple days off. They're all like single days, like just the worst. And so
00:29:57
Speaker
it's so tempting to take like a high paying job. But honestly, like I think you did the right things you bring like taking a job where they want you and they're paying you good like who cares. So yeah, and I, I read it somewhere I heard about this but people say people students should prioritize
00:30:17
Speaker
learning more than the income, which obviously, yes, I want to make some money because I have debt. I have all these expenses. I need some money, but also.
00:30:29
Speaker
like yeah if this is a good learning experience and really setting a foundation that is also high priority and I was talking with luckily there's this one adjunct professor we have that she's in orthopedics and she did all my site rotations and we were pretty like she knew me she wanted I knew I was she knew I wanted to do orthopedics
00:30:52
Speaker
And I called her about this one place, I got an offer, don't know what it means if this is good or bad. I called her up and she said, I actually worked here. And I would probably work here again, if I went back to clinical practice. And she said, you know, this is gonna be good learning environment, like you're gonna learn so much instead of very good foundation for your career. That's also one of my defining characteristics of accepting self.
00:31:17
Speaker
Now I would say any PA who's planning on doing any specialty where they're going to work directly with a doctor, a lot, so orthopedics, neuro, likes any of the surgeries and then some of the specialties like well ENT and some surgical fill too, but I would highly recommend ask
Job Satisfaction vs. Salary
00:31:35
Speaker
the surgeon, who has he worked with in the past? Have you had an NP or a PA or a first assist? Sometimes there's nurses that are first assist. Who have you worked with in the past and talked to that person? Because the doctor that you work with can make or break. I mean, it doesn't matter. If you weren't earning 300 grand a year,
00:31:57
Speaker
I mean 300,000 a year who cares if the doctor is an absolute jerk and difficult to work with it's not worth it and so I would definitely do your due diligence and make sure that the practice you're going to and the doctor that you're working under is a good guy to work under because it'll make a break and the doctor I work with
00:32:17
Speaker
is fantastic. I don't think you could ask for a more humble, easier doctor to work with. He's just so nice. So I'm lucky that way because I'll read research articles all the time. I just got back from the AAOS, the American Association of Orthopedic Surgeons.
00:32:34
Speaker
I've read a ton of research there obviously and I've a couple times been like hey it sounds like this this would be better for our practice he's like oh that's awesome thanks like instead of being like no I'm the surgeon you're the PA shut up I'm in charge like he's totally willing to take
00:32:49
Speaker
advice and potentially change practice to improve by my recommendations, which I think is pretty cool that I get to play a role in improving the practice here, whereas other places that definitely doesn't happen. It's really interesting, but you keep mentioning this one thing, and I think more for myself as the listeners, what do you
The Importance of Continuous Education
00:33:18
Speaker
do to
00:33:20
Speaker
continue your education? Like, yeah, just, I'm probably assuming you're doing more than just the CME credits that we have to do. Like, what do you intentionally do to better your education knowledge in medicine?
00:33:36
Speaker
That's a good question. And I would say, if all you're doing is a CME, then you're failing short. Because there's no, the amount of CME that's required is a joke. It's not enough to really stay up to date, in my mind.
00:33:52
Speaker
It is so easy to get out of practice with studying because you're in PA school and you're studying all day, all night, and then you start practicing. You're like, oh, this is amazing. I don't have to study anymore. And it's so tempting just to not, especially if you're busy. But I try to cut out time in the morning. I'll come in early and get some studying or in the evening.
00:34:16
Speaker
One of the things that I typically try to do that improves is before I get to the office, I write down what I'm going to study. For example, the other day, I wrote specifically down, I'm going to study different types of sleep-wake disorders in sleep studies, and I read that and studied that.
00:34:40
Speaker
the other on Saturday morning. And so I just I make a conscious effort to continually look for and grow. And I think it makes it easier working with a surgeon who wants my advice and orthopedics because there's been a couple of things that I've read and learned
00:34:58
Speaker
And the orthopedic surgeon I work with is like, oh, let's try that. Let's see if it works better. If I had an orthopedic surgeon that's like, no, I don't care what your opinion is, then I probably wouldn't read anything in orthopedics because it doesn't matter.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, I just try to make some time every once in a while. I'll come in on a Saturday and do some research. I definitely, I'm subscribed to a couple of research articles where I get some from the surgeon. And then for orthopedics, for you or anybody who's going into orthopedics, I've used orthobolts, which you can buy
00:35:42
Speaker
you can buy an annual subscription that gives you a study plan. And it's a butt-kicker of a study plan. I've done it once, and it gets you like 130 category one CME credits if you do it. It's like a wack load. You don't need that many. But it's brutal, and it gives you a topic to study every single day and test questions to do, and a couple research articles to read.
00:36:10
Speaker
And so it's really nice because you don't have to think about what you're going to study. You don't have to think about what you're going to do. You just go in and do the things that it tells you to do. And if you want it without CME, it's only a couple hundred bucks. And if you want it with CME, it's a little more expensive. But I might do that again next year without CME because I don't need more CME. Just because it's an amazing way to read and be up to date.
00:36:37
Speaker
on a ton of different disorders. As for other fields, I don't know. I'm sure they have things like that that you can do.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. I could actually do that. That's great. And I have money. I have money to do that now. I was thinking about like, I probably won't go to any conferences for the first little bit. Why don't I spend this money on? Well, now I know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I wouldn't. Yeah, if my opinion, because I went to an AAOS my first year in practice, I wish I had enough.
00:37:08
Speaker
because I knew so little and it was so confusing because at the at the surgical conferences they're not talking about the basic stuff and diagnosis and things like that they're talking about the brand new latest research and so when I went I was like I have no way like it was kind of it was kind of a waste of time and money frankly
00:37:28
Speaker
But I think it would have been way more beneficial if I did this, the ortho bullets, annual curriculum training in general. There's ones that are like joint specific like joint replacement or sports med. I just did the general orthopedics because that's what we do here. And there's a couple sections that I was like, I'm not doing this because there's one that was like basic science and it was like getting on to the like nitty gritty that
00:37:55
Speaker
that orthopedic surgeons need to know to pass tests about bone healing disorders and like the different markers and things like that. And I'm like, I don't care about that. So I skipped that section, but like, it had like a whole month and a half devoted to just foot disorders. And it has the disorder of this, and it goes over how to diagnose it, all the stuff. It was really good for me.
00:38:20
Speaker
That's really, really awesome. Did you take that orthopedic specialization exam? I was just about to mention the CAQ. It's called the CAQ. Is that what you're talking about? Sure. Yeah.
Taking the CAQ Exam
00:38:35
Speaker
So I'd gone back and forth for a while and I was like, you know,
00:38:40
Speaker
Might as well. It'll be a good learning experience because I was like, I know if I have a test, just like people who are like, I need to get in shape. I'm going to sign up for a marathon so that I'll train more. If I sign up for a test, it's going to push me to study more. So I signed up for the CAQ.
00:38:59
Speaker
You have to have a couple years of experience first, I think, before you can sign up for it. And so I signed up for it, studied like crazy, and took it. And I failed, which was really, I was actually kind of surprised because I took the test and felt pretty confident. I don't know how much, they don't tell you how badly you failed or how close you were to passing. It's just a pass spell. And then they give you a printout of like the areas that you were deficient in.
00:39:29
Speaker
And I looked through and I was like, no, I know this disorder, I treat it and I see it all the time. So I'm like, either I totally misread the question answered wrong or something, but I'm like, I see ulnar nerve compression issues all the time and I'm very comfortable treating those as well as carpal tunnel. And so I was like, kind of miffed a little bit, I was like,
00:39:56
Speaker
I was like, I know those diseases and it's saying that I'm deficient in those, but I know that's not the case. And so I was like, this is stupid because it's not really assessing my actual skills as an orthopedic surgical PA. But anyway, I thought about going and trying to retest.
00:40:15
Speaker
Again, I haven't decided yet. I took that test just like six months ago. It wasn't too long ago. What is this test for? What's the pros of taking it? That's a good question. I don't know. Frankly, probably none. Because the CAQs, they're not that well known. There's not a lot of people that know what a CAQ is.
00:40:44
Speaker
And so you could put on your resume, but most people will be like, I don't know what those letters mean. So one, I don't think it'll do a lot for you could potentially use it to leverage yourself into getting a raise. But frankly, if you've been practicing orthopedics long enough to take and pass that test,
00:41:05
Speaker
Then you could just go and say, look, I need a raise. I've been, I've been working here this long because I took the CAQ and around that same time I went and asked for a raise and they gave me a raise because I've been here for four years and I've been practicing and working a long time and I've learned a time and I do a lot more than I used to because I've grown, you know? And so.
00:41:27
Speaker
And I can't imagine if I was to go to another, if I was to leave and go somewhere else in orthopedics, I can't imagine them seeing that and be like, oh, let's hire this guy because he's got the CAQ versus this guy that has 15 years of experience in orthopedics. I'm like, it'd be a no brainer. If you're hiring a guy who's got zero or even two years and he passed the CAQ versus a guy who's got 15 years of experience, it's the guy who's got 15 years.
00:41:53
Speaker
pretty straightforward. So I don't know, I don't know if it would change the trajectory of your career that much. But like I said, if you if you do plan on taking it, I think it helps motivate you in studying more, getting more study hours in. Because I definitely I if like,
00:42:16
Speaker
my wife asked me, would you do it all over again? Because you didn't even pass. And I was like, yeah, I would. Because I learned and became a better clinician because I had to study a ton and learned a lot and read a lot trying to prep for this test that I ended up failing. But it was just still beneficial for my career, even though I didn't get the stupid certificate at the end. So that's very interesting. Great perspective. So any last minute thoughts, ideas, advice,
00:42:47
Speaker
Oh, man.
Why Choose a PA Career?
00:42:51
Speaker
I can't think of anything too specific. I would just say if you're considering the PA career, it's a freaking good one. I love it.
00:43:04
Speaker
I would offer it to almost anybody over MD or DO, just because it's so functional, so movable, and it's a great short route. Instead of 60 to 12 years after your bachelor's degree, it's two, and then you're practicing, and you learn on the job, which learning on the job,
00:43:33
Speaker
It's just such a great way of learning compared to trying to learn in textbooks. So, but yeah, it's been fun chatting, catching up.