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9 Pitches for the Next Fire Emblem Game
181 Plays10 months ago
This week we had Captain Astronaut on to talk about what we want to see from Fire Emblem in the future. Each of us brought 3 pitches for what we hope to see from the series!
Captain Astronaut: https://www.youtube.com/@CaptainAstronaut
Twitter: Actual Lizard (@ActualLizard) / X
Intro Music: Jehanna Vibes - D3ejus Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ActualLizard
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Transcript
Introduction and Future Ideas for Fire Emblem
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Sacred Stoners podcast, the second episode. I'm on as usual with my co-host, Sek. Hello. And our guest today, Captain Astronaut. Hello. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course.
00:00:20
Speaker
And today we're going to be talking about what we want to see in the future for Fire Emblem.
Enhancing Replayability with Modular Gameplay
00:00:25
Speaker
We've each put together three pitches to discuss for what we want to see in the next game in this series. And to be clear, it's what we want to happen, not what we think might reasonably happen. I think of my pitches, maybe only one is in the realm of possibility.
00:00:41
Speaker
But I'll kick us off, we'll go in order, so I'll go then Captain, then Sek, so we'll start with my first one. My first pitch for the next Fire Emblem game is that I would like to see more modularity and ways to play on top of difficulty.
00:00:57
Speaker
And what I mean by that is, you know how like now you play a Fire Emblem game, you pick your difficulty, then you pick like casual or classic. Yeah. I want like a bunch of different options because I feel like Fire Emblem fans have come up with all these different ways to play Fire Emblem, like randomizers, reverse recruitment, zero percent growths, whatever. And I would love if some of these options were in the game.
00:01:18
Speaker
where maybe maybe you lock them to after a first playthrough on a new game plus or something. But I think that would be really fun, especially because I know you can like mob these games, but I feel like that's a big barrier to entry. And engage in particular, I think would have benefited from this a lot because you have the rings and you could have like let people pick what order you get the rings in or randomize them or be like, I'm going to replace Marth with a DLC ring or something. And I just think this would spice up plays playthroughs a lot. I already play Fire Emblem games like a dozen times each, but
00:01:49
Speaker
I'd love to play them another dozen times and in different ways. So that's my first pitch. What do you guys think about that one? I like it. You know, I always see people try to
00:02:00
Speaker
I talk about their own playthroughs online. And as more and more mechanics get introduced to the game, the descriptions of playthroughs need to get longer and longer. So it would be like, Fire Emblem engage, no DLC emblems, or no DLC, no Somnail, or no DLC weapons. So having that manual adjustment in the game itself, as opposed to only being the player self-imposed, would be great.
Conceptualizing a Fire Emblem Fighting Game
00:02:30
Speaker
on top of, you know, obviously most people don't know how to mod their own games, especially more recent games, right? Like I don't know how to mod Three Houses on the Switch. I have no idea how to do that. So I think that would be good to have those features in the game and also add to the replayability. Yeah, I know like a lot of other games, like I think like Kingdom Hearts 3 did like a similar thing. And I mean, like with how much people have edited like
00:03:00
Speaker
Firehome games, it's kind of like on like the Pokemon tier at this point of like how much people have like messed with these games, especially the GBA ones. I don't see why not, to be honest, like especially like switching stuff with the rings. Like that could be fun. There's like a lot of like minor stuff that like you wouldn't even think they could do with that kind of feature. So it's like it's kind of like a net positive. There's no reason not to. Yeah, the reason I had this idea was actually
00:03:27
Speaker
Gales of Naeli, which is an indie SRPG that I think is coming out. I don't think there's an official release date, but upcoming pretty soon. They released a demo and in that you like hit new game, you pick your difficulty and then there's like six modes of play. You can like play it normally. You can play it with zero percent growths. They have a mode where like the enemies get stronger every few turns and you can like mix and match them so you can pick as many as you want. And I'm like, I'm going to play this game like 10 times.
00:03:55
Speaker
Um, because there's so many different ways you could play it. And I would love to Fire Emblem did that. I think it would be fun. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I don't. I don't really know anything else to say. Like, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I guess it's a pretty non controversial one, right? Like, I don't think there's nothing like like that would get impacted negatively. Think of that like it's kind of like a dead positive. Don't worry. My second pitch will be more disagreeable. Oh, excellent.
00:04:23
Speaker
but we'll get to that later. So, captain, what is your first pitch for us today?
00:04:28
Speaker
Well, also I realized I forgot to introduce myself. Hello, I'm Captain Astronaut. I make all sorts of YouTube videos on all sorts of different games. Fire Emblem is my favorite game series, but I rarely make videos on it because I'm really lazy. Anyways, my first pitch, and I actually started writing this for a video and I was like, wait a minute, this would be perfect for this podcast. And I don't promise that the video will actually ever be made. So don't look for it.
00:04:56
Speaker
Um, basically for the past 10 years, if there's one thing that Fire Emblem players, Fire Emblem fans have heard is that there are too many Smash Brothers characters or too many, too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash Brothers. So, and that, like, I think there's like eight at this point, I think, and like in Ultimate. So, I guess it got to the point where it's just like,
00:05:20
Speaker
why don't they just have their own fighting game? And that got me thinking, yeah, why don't Fire Emblem just have its own fighting game, right? So I don't know if you guys are familiar with Soul Calibur. Yeah, for those unfamiliar, it's just a series where it's a fighting game, but the characters fight with weapons. And I'm like, that would be perfect. Like that sort of combat would be perfect for Fire Emblem. So that's kind of my proposal, basically a Fire Emblem 2D fighting game.
00:05:51
Speaker
where it's, um, where it's two V two battles to reference, you know, sort of like pair up in awakening and fades, or like the three houses, agiton, or even the engage rings to an extent. Um, where, where characters from throughout the Fire Emblem history fight each other with weapons. I mean, I'm in, I mean, it's not like the first time we've like a big RPG series has like done that.
00:06:18
Speaker
I think especially the like TV two thing is good because like you could do like a lot of like cameo characters like that. And that's kind of like the big thing you'd want with this is just put like as many fire blue characters as you can. Oh, absolutely. Like I'm imagining. Like two games that I really like and I'm not even into the franchises that much were Grand Blue Fantasy versus and Dragon Ball Fighter's.
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah. I think that kind of game would be perfect. Oh, absolutely. Now, I think what's interesting about a Fire Emblem fighting game is who makes the cut. See, that's the first problem I actually ran into with this. Because I'd say the only characters who have to be here would be like Marth. And that's it. It doesn't matter who else is playable. And, you know, the first thought would be, oh, just include every main character from each game.
00:07:13
Speaker
But thinking of the 12 emblem rings from Engage, those characters who were chosen, over half of them were using swords. And while they were able to get really creative with the abilities and have them all feel differently, at the end of the day, they're all kind of using swords. And abilities on an equipable item can be more varied than how a character moves with a sword in a fighting game.
00:07:39
Speaker
So I think it should go maybe the route of Pokken Tournament, where they did have the roster for those games. They did have, you know, the most popular Pokemon, right? Charizard, Pikachu, et cetera. But they also had some ones that are like, no one would expect to be there. Like Braxian, who wanted Braxian in the game, right? But they were able to make all the characters play differently.
00:08:06
Speaker
So instead of maybe not necessarily have just like, oh, it's just the main characters again, you know, maybe have some random ones to like more so to represent all the different weapons in Fire Emblem that they've had. You know, they've had swords, lances, axes, bows, daggers, and shurikens, and then all the different types of magic. You know, brawling knuckles, they have the transforming characters like Liguz and Manakites. You know, in heroes, even staffs can do damage.
00:08:35
Speaker
So instead of just having the main characters have it kind of be spread out, which brings me to my next problem in a fighting game, like at least a 2D fighting game is. What do you do about mounted units? Oh, yeah, I was I was going to wonder that was like I was going to say, because because there's like a few words I think you'd have to add. But for me, like when it comes to like a roster, like when I when I think about like the Warriors roster, what I would have wanted to do is like
00:09:05
Speaker
pick a character like per each major class throughout the series, then you get like all the different weapon types. But I have no clue what to do with mounted units. Yeah,
Revitalizing the Magic System in Fire Emblem
00:09:14
Speaker
exactly. Yeah, I had the exact same thought, you know, just have all the different classes represented, you know, you have like sword masters, heroes, generals, then like a large percentage of firemen characters are mounted. And like, it wouldn't really feel like like imagine Palla without her mount like that, that wouldn't be really her, right?
00:09:34
Speaker
So I did write down a couple options. The first option would just be to dismount, have the character dismount at the start of a battle, and then mount up for like a special move, you know. But I'm like, I don't really like that one. The second option is just to say, screw it, they're just going to be big.
00:09:54
Speaker
Cause I was, I was looking at Ridley, right? Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I've written down. That's what they did with Ridley. They just like, yeah, just, just put them in. Who cares? He's going to be bigger. Hit boxes are really important in fighting game balance, but you know what?
00:10:08
Speaker
They're just going to be bigger. I was looking at the the engage animations to get ready for this. I'm like a person on a horse isn't actually that much bigger than like a person on foot. I mean, obviously they are, you know, taller and longer. But if it's a 2D fighter and the character is just facing each other, it's not hugely different. So that is that is an option. Just say screw it and just go for it. A third option would be to make it a 3D fighter.
00:10:37
Speaker
However, 3D fighting games are generally not very good. So I don't think anyone would want this option. It's a mixed bag. Yeah. I agree with you, but that's a hot take coming in. I think you guys have the right idea, though, that you can't just like put all the lords in. Right. Because when I've talked about a fire emblem fighting game before and I remember just like writing down all the lords and I'm assuming we're counting like
00:11:08
Speaker
units that maybe technically aren't lords, but like are like your Robins, your three houses. Yeah, you have to put the three houses house leaders like that's like such an easy way to put in a bunch of different weapons and they're so popular. For reference, like Dragon Ball fighters had a launch roster of 24 characters. Mm hmm.
00:11:30
Speaker
Uh, there's 17 fire emblem games. A lot of them have more than one Lord. Right. Um, well, I'm wondering about roster to include all of them and other characters. So I feel like you have to just like, it hurts me to say this as a big fire emblem five fan, but like, maybe we save leaf for DLC. Yeah. You know, put, put a different character in.
00:11:54
Speaker
Like when I when I think of like what lords you'd like have to put in, it's like Marth and like Ike and like at least one three houses, one. But honestly, I feel like you'd probably put in all three house like house leaders at this point. But it's
Unique Tasks for Lords and Gameplay Dynamics
00:12:10
Speaker
just like just the essentials are like someone who can like bring something really to the table. Like you could put Micaiah in because you get a magic user out of that. And like what other like magic use are you going to put in? And then one idea I had was
00:12:24
Speaker
What Smash 4, what Ultimate had was the concept of Echo Fighters, which is basically the same dude, but looks different. So that could be a way to introduce more Fire Emblem characters, either through updates, where the character plays the same. For example, Marth and Lucina, those two characters can play the same in a fighting game, right?
00:12:47
Speaker
So, you know, you swap out their their appearance, their voice lines, but they essentially play the same. So if you if we go more of like a route that you represent different weapons and different classes over just having characters appear, then that could be a way to like branch it out more. Yeah. And fighting games have always had like like you can and can reuse. Yeah. Who like they're not exactly the same, but like there's more similarities there than most characters. Right.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that'd be a great way to like keep up interest. Like, oh, like every like couple of months we get like a big update with like a few like new echo characters or skins. And I think like the TV to like adding like assist characters is also a really good way to include a lot of smaller characters on the side because there's so many. You could do like tag team characters to like. Yeah. Like Erica and Ephraim could potentially be one slot on the roster. Right.
00:13:48
Speaker
Alright, it sounds like we're all in agreement on this one, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, I'd be down. I'm down for more Fire Emblem spinoffs in general. Oh, I agree. I would be psyched for a Fire Emblem fighting game, to be honest. Alright, so general agreement on the first two pitches. Can we go three for three sec? OK, mine's like a gameplay thing. I want them to bring back all three like magic types, but like actually make them more distinct from each other in like a meaningful way.
00:14:19
Speaker
Um, mainly my ideas was like, um, keeping like light magic, like lower damage, but actually giving it a notable crit rate and like making dark magic, like, like making dark mages more focused on like physical defense than magical defense and like keeping dark magic, like slower. Maybe it's hard to double with it. Um, but like gives you more defense or like it heals in ways that maybe aren't just no Suratu. I have to think about that more. This is like, and then with anima.
00:14:47
Speaker
And I was thinking more specifically, um, I played like a sacred trilogy, like semi recently, which is like a, a fire and lament rebalance. And the way they did animal was like, you have the three magic types, but it's like, uh, when magic has like extra range, but it's weaker fire magic is like neutral. And then thunder magic has like higher crit rate and like, um, higher damage, but it's only one range. And I think doing something like that would help make anima feel more distinct than it does right now. Cause right now it's kind of just like,
00:15:18
Speaker
We have three magic types. I mean, engage helped a bit with stuff like, um, El Thunder's extra range. And that could work, but I want more stuff like that because I feel like magic's kind of just there right
Rethinking Experience Points in Gameplay
00:15:29
Speaker
now. And I feel like we could do more with it. So that's my, that's my opinion. Oh yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. It'd be great if the different weapon types could have, rather than just, you know, the conventional weapon triangle, if they had additional,
00:15:45
Speaker
sort of soft properties to them that were inherent to that to that type. That'd be great. Yeah, it's also like the magic triangle exists in GBA, but it doesn't really do anything even there because it's like you're not going to have like mages affect mages unless they did like a really hard like one of the mages doesn't have high res. But I feel like I thought about that with like dark mages, maybe having low res, but like higher physical defense, maybe doing like an armored mage thing there or something. But it's like
00:16:14
Speaker
that just kind of makes them worse in regards to the magic triangle. I feel like it's kind of unnecessary. So I'd rather do like more soft like properties with other just the weapon types themselves. What do you think about what I mean, this doesn't have anything to do with anima. But what do you think they did? How about how they did it in like three houses and echoes where you have
00:16:37
Speaker
like the the dark mages that have their spells are more focused on doing damage. And then you have the light mages who had more like utility and healing and then like a little bit of damage. Right. I don't I can I'm not I don't mind that I actually wouldn't mind going back to unique spell lists in general. I actually really like that in three houses. I kind of I think we could I think I more just would like that to get expanded on. I think is mainly my thing. It's like
00:17:04
Speaker
It's like they're in three houses, but it's like on like a few characters and I feel like it's kind of like. Not. It's like it's like still kind, it's like not like distinct enough because like a lot of like light magic is just still just staves at that point, which like I feel like unless we're going to get rid of saves again and do just spell list magic, which is fine. If we want to do that with light magic, that would be okay. It's just kind of like if we're going to make them distinct again.
00:17:32
Speaker
Like I'd like to have like Micaiah style, like light magic back that I'd want to do something more specific. Um, but that could, they could do like other things. Like maybe like instead of like the grid, maybe light magic does like the statuses or some other healing effects or something. I don't know. I'd have to think about it, but I'm not opposed.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, I realized I forgot to say this pitch is a yes for me, too. OK.
Innovative Class Dynamics and Transformations
00:17:56
Speaker
I used to love like whenever I go back and play FV seven, even though like the spells don't feel terribly different, I've always liked like the aesthetic difference between like your shamans, mages and and monks. So like if they also felt more mechanically distinct, I feel like that could only be a plus.
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I think there's a lot of like, I mean, GVA animations in general are really good, but there's also just a lot of nice distinction between the different characters. And also, I just like the different lore roles each of them had in those games, especially dark magic. And since modern games have much more variety in the classes with mages doing physical weapons or other combinations of magic, we could do more interesting class designs than just you promote and you get saves.
00:18:44
Speaker
Or in Secret Stones you get Light Magic for some reason and no one uses it. Oh, Sacred Stones. Sacred Stones tried. It tried its best. OK, so it's like we're in general agreement on this, too. Absolutely. So great. Everybody had a good first pitch. So now I'm going to give one that I don't know if you guys are going to like.
00:19:13
Speaker
I want more tasks that only your lord can do. And to explain what I mean, I've been playing a lot of the Arkanea Marth games lately, and something I have come to appreciate that I used to not like is that Marth is the only one who can go to villages and recruit certain characters. And he can also open chests, but thieves can do that too.
00:19:38
Speaker
And I actually like the effect that this has on the game because I think it pulls you in multiple directions and often stops you from just taking like the path of least resistance to the C's point, especially in a game that has like unlimited range warp, right? Like, why don't I just immediately warp Marth to the throne in the Samson and Aaron chapter? Well, it's because Marth has to go recruit two characters.
00:20:03
Speaker
And the other smaller benefit I like from the Lord being the one to visit villages is that, so generally like anybody can visit a village, right? And then the villages kind of have to have generic dialogue and your character can't respond because the game, like the writers don't know who you're gonna visit the village with. But if your Lord is the one that has to visit the village, then you can put whole conversations in there because it's always gonna be Marth or whoever your Lord is.
00:20:33
Speaker
And
Exploring New Settings: Wild West to Underwater
00:20:34
Speaker
I think dragon veins are another good example of this. Although I think they're like applies to too many units, which like pushes you towards deploying the royals who are already really good, as opposed to giving your force deployed unit something to do, even if they're not the best at combat. Yeah, I can see that I think especially it would a lot of like more recent Fire Emblem games, I guess, notably besides engage have like a lot more
00:21:03
Speaker
are like more likely to have more than one like Lord character at a time. And I think that would actually give them more to do between each other, which would work. One of the smaller pitches I had, I wasn't going to bring up other was just like, I just like to see more things to do on map besides just kill the bosses. And I think that like gives you another ask like, like idea to like another thing to do. And giving it to a specific unit makes it more more dynamic than just
00:21:32
Speaker
Well, I can send my flyer to get this village on turn one. So I'll just do that. Engage worked on this with stuff like the defeating multiple bosses. I don't know. It's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, I think if there's if there are multiple lords, then it wouldn't be that bad because I'm I'm remembering playing
00:21:55
Speaker
It must have been Shadow Dragon, I think, and just seeing a village in one direction and then the throne in a different direction and being like, okay, Marth's just going to go on a solo quest to the village first, while everyone else kind of fights, actually does combat. Just having to like wait, like clearing out all the enemies and then having Marth just like, just catch up to everyone else.
00:22:20
Speaker
So I think if there are multiple lords, it wouldn't be that bad. And I do like the whole... I remember in that game, Marth would have specific conversations with the people of the villages. So that did lend a more story. Yeah, I will say it does require, I think, for this to work. One, that the maps have to kind of be designed well. Like you don't want to just like put up...
00:22:44
Speaker
That helps. Yeah, you don't just want like a village on the opposite side of the throne and like no obstacles on the way to the village. Otherwise, like what are we doing? Right. And then I also I also think this works better in games without rescue, because like I feel like the fun of this for me is like in Shadow Dragon, you have like this mediocre Lord, right? Like Mart's not a great combat unit.
00:23:11
Speaker
So often you got to send them with some buddies, right? And it's like we have and we're doing like two things. I send some people over to go deal with the throne or some side objective and then Marth and his friends are going and getting the village. And that's fun for me. But I feel like part of the fun is protecting and making use of Marth. Whereas when I play like some GBA fire emblems like Ellawood mode, Fe6 or like Ephraim mode where there's a lot of seize maps.
00:23:40
Speaker
I feel like my Lord spends a lot of time in a horse's saddlebag. And I don't like that. I want to use my Lord. So I think this sort of thing works better when like the Lord is actually going to have to go walk to the objective. Yeah, I think that's I think that's definitely a pro in games that have a lot of season maps, I guess. I guess like my. Initial concern is that firearms kind of moved away from that design, I mean, but like
00:24:08
Speaker
It's definitely an issue with FV6 and stuff like that, because Roy has to do things, but it's just the same thing every map, and he can do it just by getting walked over. He doesn't have to engage with it in any meaningful way. And I definitely think more maps could use side objectives that you have to break your army up to do. Engage was a bit better with that, but I think other games could have used it more. Yeah.
00:24:34
Speaker
I mean, engage was like the return of villages and on map recruitments. And that but like, I want more of them. Yeah, I was like, I'd like them to be. But I want more like it's this is a this is not related to those pitch. I really I really want Fire Emblem to move away from the our cast is eight royals and every other character is their retainers because it is so
00:25:02
Speaker
boring. It's really boring from like a character like backstory perspective. Three houses didn't have a ton of like recruitments in the traditional sense. But one of my favorite things about that game's cast is just that every character in that game has a very strong sense of place within that world. And you can see how like living there has directly shaped the person they are and engage
00:25:28
Speaker
I like Engage's characters. I like a lot of them, but there's a bunch of them where I feel like you could switch what country they're even from and it would not change that much about them.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah. Well, or I would say that about like fates to sometimes sometimes they do this better than others. Like, I feel like Elise's retainers are actually really good. Like, I think if you were to switch Effie to some other Lord or some other royal, it would be like a completely different dynamic. But like, yeah.
00:25:59
Speaker
Um, but like you could put like Perry with whoever and it would be exactly the same character. I think it would still be bad. It would be bad. OK, actually, and ironically, I think Perry would make more sense on Camilla than Xander. I guess that's a take I can say now. I'd have to think about that, but I'm on initial impression, I agree.
00:26:22
Speaker
Uh, but yeah, um, I think, I think like, I guess like just more on slick on map, recruitments and like the village stuff could be, it could work. Yeah. I'm not very context dependent. Yes, but I'm not opposed. All right. So final, final votes on this one year. Um, I'm going to give it a very tentative yay.
00:26:45
Speaker
All right. Yay ish.
Steampunk and Broader Creative Settings for Fire Emblem
00:26:47
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, that's where I am. I'm very skeptical. Skeptical. Yay. All right. Like half a thumbs up for each of you. Yeah. It's like, well, like a Lord death condition is usually the only game over condition. So it would be interesting to have the Lord do more than just, you know, seize the throne and be a game over. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm glad we found like a little contention on this one.
00:27:14
Speaker
We can't agree the whole time. That's true. All right. What's your second pitch for us, Captain? All right. Well, I think there's going to be a lot of contention with this one, especially because I myself have contention with it. Fair enough. Okay. Fire Emblem, but without on-map experience points, you only get
00:27:42
Speaker
bonus experience at the end of chapters based on performance and map-based objectives. And you get a lot more stat boosters through completing on-map objectives. But in terms of just fighting one-on-one fighting, you get zero experience from that. So this is interesting. I've been playing a...
00:28:11
Speaker
Fire Emblem fan game lately. It's a it's a roguelike called Embrace of the Fog. And it actually does this. You don't get any experience for combat. You just at the end of the map, your units get experience. Yeah. And I would do it like like Telius, where it's just a big pool. And then between chapters, you just like assign it out to who who you want to
00:28:39
Speaker
to basically to level up. And the thought the thought process behind is like, you know, I do, I do a lot of working out and training. And I'm just like, just thinking about it. I mean, obviously, video games are not real life, you should not try to be real life. But it's like, okay, we have three people fighting this dude.
00:28:56
Speaker
and the one person who gets the last hidden gets the most experience. How does that really translate to real life as opposed to if it's between battles? It's like, okay, we're gonna have this one little wimpy kid. He's gonna be bench pressing like crazy between battles. We're gonna invest everything into him. So in the next chapter, he comes back, he's super jacked and ready to fight.
00:29:20
Speaker
That's, that's kind of the thought presses behind it. And then the stat boosters, I guess you could think of as like protein shakes and steroids. We can roid up our units. Exactly. It's not a far cry from what people talk about spirit dust as at this point. It's pretty much tonics, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Actually, it is just tonics. As someone who like, like when I play Fire Emblem, my number one thing I enjoy is just
00:29:46
Speaker
Um, seeing my units go from like where they are at the start to like at the end. So it's like, I really like having my in-battle eXp. That's just like part of the dope I get from playing in the game. So, um, I'm like, I'm not, I don't want to say I'm like against it just on principle. It's just like, I don't think I would enjoy it. I wouldn't mind like a bonus eXp system coming back. Maybe in a different way than tell you it's just cause I like tell you his bonus eXp, but I know a lot of people who's only, who just.
00:30:17
Speaker
way they use it is just we get a bunch then we just put it on Marcia and or someone else and the game doesn't stop you from that and it probably should. I do think though that you could make a Path of Radiance bonus EXP system that like doesn't reward that. That's true. I do think you could do that. I just think if we wanted to do something like this we should quantify that we should do that.
00:30:39
Speaker
Because I have I haven't run into a game just like level up somebody up to From 1 to 20 between one chapter, right? He's gotta be okay limits to it. So the player is more incentivized like spread it out more I guess my my only like Question with this do we lose then the aspect of like, okay, we have like our Wimpy you we have like our Amelia, right? Yeah
00:31:04
Speaker
Do we lose something from units like Amelia if like instead of having to put four dudes around an archer and have Amelia hit the archer 40 times to level up twice? Is some appeal from that sort of unit lost if it's just like we beat the map without Amelia doing anything and then we just like pump the exp in? I definitely think it would help if you had to like
00:31:33
Speaker
Like it has to be units that were on the map that can get the bonus exp. But yeah, you would definitely lose some of the appeal of those units. Right. And I think you would kind of lose those those individual stories where it's just like, oh, yeah, I had I strategically planned it out to have to whittle down the boss.
00:31:54
Speaker
so I could have Nino come in and do one damage and finish off like this terrifying boss, right? You do kind of lose some of that. And to go along with what you said, Sequitor, I also love watching my units level up. I think there is a lot of dopamine from, you know, you level up, you get the essentially the gotcha of the level ups, the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Everyone loves that. Everyone loves them or go up during combat. And you do kind of lose some of that as well.
00:32:22
Speaker
Although, thinking about it, I feel like Fire Emblem has kind of moved away from the Amelia type of unit anyway. Like, in case you have like Ana and Jean, right? But like, you don't really train them the way that you do Amelia. You stick Micaiah on them and you press the EXP button. Right.
00:32:44
Speaker
People still love them. So I don't know. Maybe it would be fine. I will say I'm not sure the Micaiah button was meant to be used that way. I don't know. Like my point here was just to say that, like that, like, but that's like that's what people do with them and people like them. Right. That's true. That's a fair point. So maybe maybe that sort of design like can still work even without like having to do the on map grinding that we had to do in like a trainees. You know, I think about like
00:33:14
Speaker
Chapter games without between map grinding options.
00:33:21
Speaker
This was also part of a video I never end up making. But basically, I think of FE 10 in part two, when you're playing as, I think it was Jeffrey's Charge, that chapter, where you, like the whole point of that part of the story is that it's a civil war. Like you're fighting other, you're crimeans fighting other crimeans. So, Elyncia even tells you before battle, hey, try to keep casualties to a minimum. So,
00:33:46
Speaker
gameplay like story wise, you don't want to fight your own people. But then gameplay wise, I'm thinking like, well, I need to level up my units so they can fight God at the end of the game. So instead of just charging straight for the throne, I'm going to fight every single dude on this map because I know that it's a video game and I need to level up my guys.
00:34:06
Speaker
However, it feels only like a more objective based bonus experience than I wouldn't be. Maybe I get more bonus experience from just completing the chapter quickly and keeping casually to a minimum versus had I just gotten experience through combat. I will say I'm like I'm pretty sure they actually do give you bonus XP in that map for not killing people. But yeah, I see your point. Actually, even if they kept normally XP, I'd actually really like to see
00:34:36
Speaker
Um, like some kind of like bonus objectives coming back. I think that can be fun. Oh, I actually really like some of those Intelis, not all of them. Some of them are crazy. Like the stealth map or the, oh yeah, no, nobody does that. I've done this and the pacifist map route and it's terrifying. It's so bad. It sounds not fun, but it still works in telly as I feel. Cause like, if there's a really crappy map objective, you just don't do it. That's true. Yeah, that's true.
00:35:06
Speaker
All right, I'm giving you a yes-ish on this one. I could see it. I think if they made a game this way, I would probably still enjoy it. But I do want to go on a quick side tangent on Jeffrey's Charge. When I was a kid and for a long time growing up, I always thought his name was pronounced like Joffrey. And I feel like Jeffrey sounds like so much less hard, like Jeffrey's Charge.
00:35:35
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Jeffrey, that's that's the that's the butler from Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Exactly. That's that's like the guy I met at Subway. OK, that's your point for me. I'm going to it's like a tentative like I it's like I'm not entirely opposed, but I'm going to say, Nate, just that I don't think I would enjoy it that much. I will say to go back to the first pitch about like different like modes, that could be like a really good
00:36:04
Speaker
Um, like in a game that has bonus experience already in some capacity, like a mode option. I think that actually be really fun. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Oh, that's a good idea. Take notes in delicate systems. All right. What do you got for us for your second pitch sec? Okay. This is another gameplay thing. I want them to bring back, um, these units, um,
00:36:29
Speaker
This includes mannequets, but to a lesser extent, because we still have mannequets. Although, I would like them to do something along the lines of how Tiki worked in FE11. Like, the Arcanade games were like, she had different types of dragons, and they had different properties. Like, some were a lot faster, but had bow weaknesses, or some were more magic-based, and had high res, that sort of thing. I forget all the different dragon type names, because they're not that important.
00:36:58
Speaker
brief pitch on manikits. Different dragon types like dragonstone types would be nice. But I was really trying to think how to bring back legus in a way that isn't just how they are in like awakening and fates where it's just here's another unit and they just transform and it looks cool but it doesn't really do anything besides give extra stats. And I was actually thinking of maybe trying to compare it more to like engages and engage. Like maybe like they can attack
00:37:26
Speaker
in smaller ways like when they're not transformed but you have the option to transform and they get like different abilities based on like what type like maybe cats get like an engage ability they wouldn't be called that where like they can dodge everything for a turn or and tigers get something different and dragons get something different and so on and so forth and kind of make them more into like like more distinct from regular units I'd have to find a way to make this so there's a good enough like balance
00:37:55
Speaker
in terms of not making them too good. But I feel like a big issue with the way they work in Telius is that there's some control over how they transform, especially Radiant Dawn, but it's kind of all over the place. And they just don't do anything when they're not transformed, which I think is an issue with enjoyment. It's also, I'd want their EXP to be similar to other regular units, because that's another issue with Telius' use. But yeah.
00:38:20
Speaker
As someone currently training Lyre in Radiant Dawn, I agree. They should get EXP again. It's so like, why do you have growth units in Radiant Dawn? If they dock and have regular EXP, what is the purpose of that? Lyre, Lyre is like the perfect example of how to do a Laku's wrong. It's like you have to wait four turns for the privilege of crappy combat and then she doesn't even get any experience. It's like, oh my God.
00:38:51
Speaker
um but yeah but not to sidetrack i agree i think the animal units are cool um i didn't think they were the best implemented in awakening and fates where it's just like they just kind of show up and they're functional they're like a neat bonus but they don't really do anything distinct they're just kind of like here's a cool one range unit well and i also think they're very
00:39:17
Speaker
loosely implemented into the story, whereas the lagoos feel like a more a much bigger part of the world. Right. Yeah, I agree with that. And I like that more than awakening invades the style, but I'd also be OK with it. I just would like them to be more interesting class plays, because I feel like there's like some potential to do something more interesting with like, because I think making them noticeably distinct from other classes would be fun. Like, I feel like most other firing classes function very similarly.
00:39:47
Speaker
So I've also been trying to think of ways to incorporate some of the engaged like class mechanics in ways that aren't just the rings. So that's another thing. Yeah, I mean, I'm all I'm all for it. You know, I mean, obviously, I'm always just more for more classes, better more. Yeah, a lot of play better.
00:40:09
Speaker
A lot of my pitches were just here's more class ideas. No, but I think it's like it's not just more classes, right? I feel like it's like we want more classes that like do a unique thing. Right. Yeah. Because like three houses and engage have a lot of classes. Yeah. But there's some where I'm just like, I don't care about this class. It's not real to be like berserker is not a real class to be in English.
00:40:38
Speaker
But what about Smash Plus? All right. Smash Plus is pretty funny, especially that one mob that makes Smash Plus knock enemies back. Ninety nine tiles. Oh, yeah, that's highly amusing. Oh, but yeah, there's it's it's it'd be nice to get like a lot. There's a lot of classes that are kind of just like, oh, yeah, that that's in the game. It's kind of like they're out of like tradition for some of them. I think like Berserker, it's like, oh, it's there because we need like a solo class.
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah, but like warrior is just better. Yeah, I mean, you're I think you're right that some of it is like like would I don't know would engage have a berserker if it wasn't if there wasn't like a history of there being berserkers in fire emblem. I don't know if we call that. I think there'd be like something is like engaged berserker is like functionally outside of just being an axe using class. It's like pretty much nothing like any other berserker in the series. It's just like.
00:41:36
Speaker
I guess it's supposed to be the smash specialist. Yeah, it's supposed to be, but I. You don't really use smash for the smash thing, like the movement thing. You kind of just use it for the big damage. I just use it for the big silver grade. Yes, that's what I mean. Like you just use it for the funny big damage. Like it doesn't. So like getting the extra movement is like, oh, thanks, I guess. Yeah, so I mean, yes, for me on more interesting classes and animals.
00:42:06
Speaker
Okay. Definitely. Definitely. Yes. For me. Yeah. More, more, more classes or more options to play more way to like, I love the engage rings abilities, but I'm like, how, how, how would they implement those? Some of those individual games without bringing back rings. And then it's like, do you really want, I love, I love the engage rings and engage, but I don't know if I want it then to every single game to be like an engaged ring game. Right.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, I don't want them to be contextualized the same way. Yeah, I think there's lots of ways you could do it, right? You could do like maybe like a subclass system. That was one of the other things I had on my list at some point. Or just like more class skills, like maybe Berserker. I mean, Fates did that, right? Fates has a couple of class skills, but maybe you can even do like three or four. I don't know. Lots of ways to get these skills in the game, I think.
00:42:59
Speaker
I, one of the things I had on my list that is like kind of related, I would, I would like to see games. Like I, I don't want to say I don't want faces skill system back, but rather I would prefer that enemies don't have a bazillion skill combinations. I thought the way engage handled enemy skills was a lot more manageable in a way that isn't conquest. Um, but you could have more class skills without necessarily meaning every enemy has like Astra.
00:43:27
Speaker
Because I have played a hack recently that where it's like, oh, every enemy has the same skill set that your characters do based on class. And that is horrible for enemy design. That's terrifying. You get like demented stuff like every archer has speed proc adept, which is insane. And also certain blow insane combination to put on enemies. No, there was no testing on that. Oh, my God. Forged it up. Yeah. Right.
00:43:57
Speaker
Well let's move on to our third round of pitches, our third and final round. This is my most involved one, so bear with me for a moment here. I would like Fire Emblem to explore new settings. I am open to whatever, but I would like to pitch Fantasy Wild West.
00:44:18
Speaker
A great example of this is the Wild Arms RPGs. I don't know if you guys have ever played those, but it's an old JRPG. It's got swords, firearms, magic, monsters in like a fantasy western setting and it works. They even did a little known tactics RPG on the PSP. That was pretty cool.
00:44:37
Speaker
So picture, if you will, I'm going to be using like names of real life places, but obviously in a video game, you would give these video game fantasy names. Of course. The cowboy kingdom of San Antonio, pride of fantasy Texas and guardians of the scroll, which seals the four horsemen of the apocalypse after they were defeated thousands of years ago.
00:45:02
Speaker
Our protagonist, Princess Olive, is the younger of the royal siblings of San Antonio, and with no expectation of taking the throne, has taken up the hobby of sharp shooting, becoming one of the finest marksmen of Texas, but neglecting her courtly duties while her older brother, Prince Jesse, learns to be a noble in preparation to ascend to the throne.
00:45:23
Speaker
Until one day, Jesse learns from a nefarious advisor that he's not actually blood related to the Royal Family, and is actually a descendant of Conquest, the Horseman of the Apocalypse, and was merely adopted by the Royal Family as an infant.
00:45:38
Speaker
The advisor that informs him of this also tells him that the news of his heritage will spread soon, ruining his hopes of gaining the crown. So he assassinates his parents, frames Princess Olive for the murders, and sends his new military to find the relics he needs to unseal the scroll of the apocalypse and release the horsemen once again. So we follow Olive, fleeing Texas, aiming to build an army, prevent the return of the horsemen, and bring back justice to the Kingdom of San Antonio.
00:46:06
Speaker
all while learning to be a leader and care for her people, which is a completely new lifestyle for her. So we can have all the classic fire emblem mechanics here, but mapped to a more fantasy western aesthetic. So we can have cowboys instead of cavaliers, musketeers instead of mercenaries. We can keep wyverns in Pegasus knights, or we could get weird with it and do like sword wielding knights riding on flying frogs. I don't care. I just want something a little different.
00:46:33
Speaker
I love it. Pitch one a very different direction than I was expecting based on that. It really got me in the first half with that one. But, yeah, no, I one of the big thing I had for one of mine was actually just also that I would like to see different aesthetics. So I'm like in full agreement with this. This would be fun.
00:46:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's great. I think the only thing I would make sure to do would to absolutely use real life place names. I want to defend the kingdom of Texas. Absolutely. It should take place in Texas. When I wrote this, I was just naming the inspirations for the different states. So I was including musketeers. So in my script, I have written
00:47:22
Speaker
uh fleas from texas to france to france yeah that's that's the far no fantasy france is right next to fantasy texas oh okay okay i was like i was like that's a really far to flee to damn no they have they have a vassal state in um louisiana so oh man the us the us map is gonna get really messed up now
00:47:52
Speaker
Uh, so for flying units, you could just have like a, a big, um, a big vulture carrying someone with their talent. Honestly. Yeah. Fuck it. Like I say, go for it. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I don't like to have fun with it. Like if you're going to do a whole different, like, I feel like, um, one of the things I was going to say is I liked that fate stood.
00:48:16
Speaker
Like obviously Hoshido is a much more like Japanese aesthetic, but I feel like they could have gone even farther with it. Yeah, well, Face was a game I was thinking about here because that's...
00:48:26
Speaker
One of the things I like about Fates is it has a bit of like a different aesthetic. Yes. Yeah, I agree. And I would like even more of that. And I mean, obviously the Wild West is the example I use, but I know some people like don't want to go modern. They're like, I don't want firearms in my fire emblem. And that's fine. There's all sorts of different settings we could do. Right. Right. Yeah. I guess like spoilers for my next pitch I wanted to do. I was going to suggest Steampunk. That's like the one I'd like to see.
00:48:56
Speaker
Um, but I, I honestly would be okay with like, just a game that, uh, moves to like another, like just a different culture. Honestly, like just other than just like Western European style, like a full game that does like Japanese stuff or, you know, anything like any other, like there's tons of, there's so many different inspirations they could take from. Um, it just, it'd be interesting. You know, it's like, I think something nice with Pokemon.
00:49:22
Speaker
And Pokemon does this, I guess, like to limited degrees, but every region is so based on like a different part of the world. And that's like a nice thing, a nice change of pace, which granted those games desperately need. But still, it's nice. I appreciate they do it. Oh, absolutely. I think Pokemon is a good shout because I've I've talked about this on Twitter a few times and like I always get some people that are like, oh, but like it won't feel like Fire Emblem, but
00:49:48
Speaker
Um, I don't know. I did. Pokemon's a great example where they changed the setting, but it always feels like Pokemon to do. Yeah, I think like I feel like there's a lot like it. It's definitely a change. Like we'd have to like like you would have to get used to it. But I feel like I feel like Fire Emblem is like at a point where they could reasonably make it look like Fire Emblem. So I mean, like look at like heroes, even heroes is like. Like if they're not removed.
00:50:16
Speaker
If Ganunga got Fire Emblem Heroes could be a. Yeah. And like. Right. Which by the way, I don't mind. I think she looks great. But if she could be a Fire Emblem character, we could have Fire Emblem characters that look a little different. Yeah. Like I think the series just has to do it first to like convince people if it's like is how I feel about it like. Because like it's like the the Fates characters like on the sheet of side like look like Fire Emblem characters.
00:50:44
Speaker
and like completely different inspiration for their aesthetics. But you can show me those characters and be like, yeah, that looks like a Fire Emblem character.
00:50:55
Speaker
Yeah, even even with Pokemon, how they went back to the Legends Arceus games, your game, and it was so different. The stack was so different. It took place in a different time period. The other rest of the games, they changed a lot of the mechanics, but it still ultimately felt like you're playing a Pokemon game. So I think Fire Emblem could absolutely explore those those other settings. Yeah, that's that's definitely like a I don't think they will.
00:51:19
Speaker
Oh no, I don't think they will know. It's like one of the things I want them to do. It's like high on my list that I would like to see. Yeah. What I said, only one of my pitches was in the realm of possibility. It was the Lords getting more stuff to do one. Yeah. So it sounds like like general agreement on this one. What do you have for your last pitch, Captain? It was actually kind of similar to yours, but it was more of like a joke pitch. We've all we've all played Fire Emblem.
00:51:50
Speaker
So get ready for water emblem where it's fire emblem, but under the sea. Oh, all right. But what if I told you that would be dope, right? Honestly, I'd be down. Like, I don't, I don't see why. So yeah, instead of, you know, it's, it's, you know, you're playing as, as, you know, more people. Um, I don't know if you guys are familiar with, with.
00:52:15
Speaker
D&D species, but Tritons. Sure, sure. So hoggins, etc. More, you know, you know, bipedal, undersea creatures. Instead of riding Cavalier, riding horses, they'd ride seahorses, of course. Instead of Pegasi, you're surfing on manta rays. Okay, there would be boat maps, but they'd be in reverse, where you're in the water and you're attacking people on a boat.
00:52:44
Speaker
There'd be like, like interplay, like with like the surface. Okay. I was like underwater or like there would be like a conflict. Okay. Interesting. So that's what I think. I think the first half would be like an underwater conflict, you know, battle for the throne amongst the undersea peoples.
00:53:02
Speaker
And then what unites them is all the threats from the surface with the trash and pollution, everything. So they all unite to attack the surface. Fire makes sense of climate change.
00:53:19
Speaker
You know, I know you meant it as a joke pitch, but I feel like I have to give it a yes because Oh no, I'd be down. It would be a day one. Yeah. No, I would buy this. This is where they finally do what I've been waiting for many years, which is the, the like crap lobster, like alligator legus. Oh my God. That would be amazing. Oh my God. It's finally time.
00:53:44
Speaker
I'm thinking of a game I played a few years ago, Wargroove, where they had a lot of amphibious battles where you transition from sea battles and then deploy your units on the land, and then transition to land battles. So you could have some things like that in Water Emblem. And I have written down here, the final boss is a big pile of salt.
00:54:10
Speaker
Does that like represent the Fire Emblem fanbase? Yes. Self present company included. You know, you gotta have a mechanic where your units can only breathe on land for like a certain number of turns before they have to hop back in water and you know, refill their oxygen.
00:54:35
Speaker
because they only have gills, you know, so stuff like that. It could lead to some interesting and hilarious gameplay.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm on board. I don't even have any notes. I'm just on board. I don't. I honestly, this just sounds like fun. Yeah, I don't like do it. But I think I think what I'm getting from this is that all three of us would be interested in a little bit of a change of pace from the series aesthetically. Yeah, I love the fantasy. But, you know, after what, 17, 18 games now, we can branch out from away from the medieval fantasy a little bit. Yeah, like I.
00:55:12
Speaker
Like there's just so many, there's so many other aesthetics they could. Yeah. And I know we just went with two that are like pretty, um, like kind of out there, but like, like, even if they just wanted to do something a little more grounded, there's like, you know, there's more places than Western Europe, right? That's, that's what I mean. That's why like my initial thing is just like at minimum, like we could reasonably do like anywhere else in the world than Western like Europe style, like,
00:55:41
Speaker
um like we could do like any like you know there's like asian stuff they could do what they could do and if they really could do like africa they could do africa like latin america they could do many options that'd be cool there's so many options like the world is huge and we only get western europe half the time which i like i very much enjoy western europe we have 17 games of it i
00:56:06
Speaker
When they release the next one and it's like Europe again, I will be buying it. I just yeah, I'll be there. I'll probably be saying like how much X character looks sick as hell. But like I, you know, like we can do more. I agree. I vaguely remember. I went when awakening was in development, one idea they like tossed out was like, let's have it take place on Mars.
00:56:31
Speaker
That's insane. I've heard people say that, but I've never like read the interview. Yeah, don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure it could have just been made up or could have just been like in the blue ocean phase where they're just throwing out ideas on the wall to see what sticks. That could have been just one thrown out. I haven't heard the term blue ocean in a while. Hitting us with the business phrases.
00:56:58
Speaker
But okay, it sounds like we're all in agreement on this one. Zach, why don't you hit us with our final pitch? I kind of, I've been kind of just like saying it throughout the last section, but like my number one like pitch would just be like a steampunk aesthetic, which is probably the, I guess like the furthest in the future for these. The civic inspiration I was thinking of would be like,
00:57:27
Speaker
Um, maybe closer to the way final fantasy does. Like it's technology where it's like, um, like the politics and the aesthetics, a lot of it's like still a set in the past, but like some of its technology is like more like aesthetically modern. It doesn't have to do that because it'd be like more steampunk. I know what you mean. It's like, you still have like the, uh, it's like magic attack, right? Like you still have the, uh, yes. Yeah. That's kind of where I'd be. And they could do a lot of new, like, um, different classes. Obviously guns would be like something interesting, like,
00:57:57
Speaker
Um, I also silly put in my notes that I don't, I don't want them to do what heroes did with the horse, like mounts, like the robot horse, the horse armor. I need, I need them to stay away from that. I'm adding that unit to, to the Mike and Nanga gap arguments of if this could be a fire emblem character, we can do a slightly different aesthetic. Right.
00:58:21
Speaker
Oh, I agree with that. Specifically, I just can't take the horse. It's hilarious, but it should not be like we could just have horses. You could do other animals. There's like a whole, we have a whole animal kingdom. We don't need to make the horses robots, but it's so funny when they shoot missiles. Listen, give the horses missile launchers. I'll take that.
00:58:48
Speaker
Are they robot horses or do you just want to like attach a missile launcher to the horse? Oh, the ladder. I think the horses are ready for it. Does the horse fire it or does the rider? The horse. Wow. That's a lot of things. But the horse. The horses. They must be like the. No, listen to me. Night horses with the little hats. You could tell those ones are smart because I know.
00:59:12
Speaker
Like this is like a military like trained horse. Like that horse is on his own. I've been through the horse's own unit is trained. Yeah, it's. I think it's very funny that we all had like. A very similar last pitch. I mean, in like three different directions, but. Yeah, it's just. But it really is just like I just like to see something new aesthetically. I also just think it lead to just like new
00:59:41
Speaker
like story elements. Like in yours, you mentioned like the, like the, oh, we're trying to get like the four, like the four horsemen of apocalypse revived. It's like, that's a good new, even if it's like functionally not like super different from like a typical fire mill in MacGuffin.
00:59:54
Speaker
It's like a new it's like a new direction for it. You know, like you can make them like cool. Well, it's like kind of a spin on sacred stones, right? It's like, oh, there's like some. Yeah. You have to get to unseal this scroll and then a big monster comes out, except instead, it's like four monsters. But. So yeah, I mean, steampunk fire emblem is also a yes for me. Oh, yes, for me, too. Absolutely.
01:00:22
Speaker
All right. Well, we mostly found agreement outside of the second round. We had some disagreement to the second round. But this was fun. I liked hearing you guys's thoughts on what you want to see in the next Fire Emblem game. Yeah, this is a great time. So I guess we'll close out here then. Thank you for coming on, Captain Astronaut and Sequitor, of course, as always. Is there anything either of you want to plug before we close out here?
01:00:52
Speaker
I don't have anything at the moment. Maybe one day. I'm always in the process of making YouTube videos. When they come out, we'll see. But check back in the future. There will probably be something.
01:01:06
Speaker
I understand that's the schedule I've been moving towards lately. Yep. But they are bangers. I highly recommend. Oh, thank you. That's your channel. So thank you both for coming on. And I hope everyone watching has a lovely week. If you're watching on YouTube, I don't think you can leave comments on Spotify. But if you're watching on YouTube, tell us what you want to see the next Fire Emblem game. I'd love to read your pitch.
01:01:28
Speaker
As always, a big thank you to my geckos on Patreon, and a shoutout to my skinks, Aron Geddon, Cosplay Sylveon, Doopey, Emma, Aikipumi, Cabre, LonelyVoxel, Lucisev, Morgwulf, RedMage Morgan, StarsToArt, The NoodleDoodler, UpscaleFurryTrash, VanWest, and Wingman.