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Exploring the Marketing Landscape with Mitch Joel
61 Plays4 years ago
It goes without saying the marketing landscape has dramatically changed over the past year.
The disappearance of conferences (a go-to channel for B2B companies) has been a game-changer, forcing marketers to embrace virtual events, high-quality content, newsletters, and social media.
Who better to provide perspective on marketing today and where it’s heading (as well as how business is transforming) than Mitch Joel, an entrepreneur, investor, author, and trusted advisor.
In this episode of Marketing Spark, Mitch and I discuss:
- The domination of the advertising landscape by Google and Facebook
- The growing importance of storytelling
- How and when in-person conferences will return
- The future of LinkedIn and Clubhouse.
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Transcript
The Shift to Virtual Marketing
00:00:09
Speaker
in 25 minutes or less. It goes without saying that the marketing landscape has dramatically changed over the past year. The disappearance of conferences, a go-to channel for B2B companies, has been a game changer, forcing marketers to embrace virtual events, high quality content, newsletters, and social media.
00:00:27
Speaker
Do better to provide perspective on marketing today and where it's heading, as well as how business is transforming than Mitch Joel, an entrepreneur, investor, author, and trusted advisor. Welcome to Marketing Spark. Well, good to hear from you, Mark. And nice to, quote unquote, see you. I get to see your face because of the power of Clubhouse. Normally, not much, but good to see you. Likewise, it's been a long time, especially in these COVID times in which we're living, where seeing people is a real treat.
Facebook & Google's Ad Dominance: A Double-Edged Sword
00:00:57
Speaker
Let's start by exploring the state of digital marketing. As I said during the introduction, it's been a year of change, experimentation, and adapting to the new landscape. A loaded question, but what's been your take on marketing over the past 12 months?
00:01:14
Speaker
I don't know if it's so much 12 months as it is in general and I want to separate the idea of marketing and advertising because it's an easy trope to get into. So let's focus on the advertising side of it and then maybe you can remind me we can pull it back in or zoom out to the broader world of digital marketing.
00:01:34
Speaker
But from an advertising perspective, it's been pretty, you know, I want to use the word sad. It's somewhat sad. We lived in a world and you were there early on as I was where it felt like we would see a million flowers blossom. And suddenly we are in this world that Professor Scott Galloway so rightfully called to these unregulated monopolies.
00:01:54
Speaker
It's a place where if you are playing with two players, namely Facebook and Google, and we could discuss and debate the other ones because they have merit, but that'll basically cover you. That'll basically get you the eyeballs and attention you need.
Content Safety Concerns in a Pandemic
00:02:07
Speaker
And because of their data and the accumulation of the platforms that fall within both of those major brands,
00:02:13
Speaker
What you have is a world where the publishers also maintain so much data and information that they know exactly based off of keywords, intent, connections, et cetera, how much a keyword or key phrase or target audience is to any brand. They know more about the actual acquisition of a customer and the lifetime value of a customer than probably the brand that's trying to do any semblance of advertising.
00:02:41
Speaker
and that creates a massive financial opportunity for the publishers. It provides the brands with a really good insight into how they can target or retarget their advertising and their messaging, but it doesn't provide a lot of flexibility.
00:02:57
Speaker
And with that, there's also the question of brand safety. What we've really seen in the past 12 months is a bit of a red herring. In one instance, brands have never been safe on social media. Their content has constantly been surrounded by however you want to describe the content. Is it political? Is it too left? Is it too right? Is it too center? Or do we want our brands associated around these types of content, comments, user-generated content, et cetera?
00:03:27
Speaker
But when it became the big banner that brands were floating everywhere, brand safety, brand safety, we're going to be pulling back our advertising from Facebook and Google. I felt like it's a bit of a red herring only because it fell at a time when the pandemic was really kicking off and getting hot and crazy and heavy for the world.
00:03:45
Speaker
And I felt like it was a good diversion from the reality that brands were probably going to start retracting marketing and advertising budgets. They were probably going to start laying people off and making pretty ugly announcements. But if they could yell very loudly about brand safety, it could push the owners back onto the platforms, again, namely Facebook and Google in this instance. And I found that very frustrating from my own perspective.
Empowering Brands: Building Platforms & Innovative Financing
00:04:08
Speaker
On the other hand, brands have never been more empowered, as you and I have known and talked about for over a decade, to build their own platforms, to get more engaged in their newsletters, to get more engaged in their own content creation and to think about things differently.
00:04:24
Speaker
So, you have a tale of two cities, as we always have in these situations. You have the agnostic world of technology that is neither good nor bad, it just is. And you have many flare-ups of issues and challenges that make it
00:04:41
Speaker
uh, somewhat challenging for big brands to plane effectively and really troublesome for the smaller brands to even get on board, which again, if you look at the smaller brands, then you can go down the larger view of digital marketing and look at an amazing opportunities and things like, for example, Shopify, another Canadian success story that I'm sure both of us are really proud of, but that enables and empowers anybody to become an entrepreneur.
00:05:06
Speaker
that has massive implications across the landscape as well. Because now you have younger startups who are thinking about building their own platform. They're engaged in the marketplace. They're adding apps onto it. They're trying to build that DTC, that direct to consumer relationship. And that creates a very fortuitous time. But as they move up into the scale of time to advertise on Google and Facebook, it can be very, very limiting. And again, what happens? Well, it lays
00:05:32
Speaker
It lays a path for new startups like Clearbank, for example. Again, another Canadian company. I'm being very pro-Canadian today, but how do they think about venture? Well, the vast majority of new businesses are coming in and looking for venture for marketing. Why not build a business like Clearbank, which essentially doesn't take ownership, but offers a loan against specifically targeted advertising and Facebook and Google with the premium on top of it.
00:05:57
Speaker
that takes away from removing issues from the overall cap of the company and what they're looking at and provides a new venture and venue to advertise and connect. So I can go down a million tropes here if you want, Mark.
Creativity in Constrained Advertising Environments
00:06:12
Speaker
Well, I'll ask a simple question. You don't get a simple answer. I guess it's the easy way to describe it. There's a lot of different ways we can go here.
00:06:19
Speaker
There are three words that came to mind when you were answering that question. One was flexibility, the other was creativity, and the other was innovation. Flexibility when it comes to advertising channels, because you're absolutely right about the fact that there are two big players in town. And really, when it comes to digital marketing, you either go with option A or option B. Last year, when a lot of brands jumped off Facebook, they said they would no longer advertise on the platform.
00:06:46
Speaker
You had to believe it was more show than go, that eventually they just couldn't resist the power and size of the Facebook platform, and eventually many of them came back. Now, a lot of them didn't publicize the fact that they'd come back, but it was what it was, and the same thing goes for Google. Google has so much data, you have to be everywhere, and that is just the advertising landscape.
00:07:08
Speaker
The other thing that comes down to creativity, and I am interested in, as a creative, getting your take on this, the fact that brands have to be so careful these days, putting yourself out there, taking chances, embracing risk, doing things that may push the boundaries, can put you offside pretty quickly, particularly in a world where we increasingly see the world in black or white, and wondering what your take is of the creative landscape when it comes to marketing.
00:07:38
Speaker
Creatively, I really think we are seeing a high level of innovation, only because, again, I zoom out and look beyond banner advertising and retargeting, but the ability to tell a story in a compelling way that attracts an audience, an audience to potentially being a customer,
00:07:58
Speaker
a first-time customer is my friend Avinash Kaushik, who's this analytics guru and AI person at Google likes to say a customer is usually someone who buys from you twice. So first-time customer and then a real customer, someone who's bought from you twice. And I see this every single day and I love that level of creativity and where am I seeing it? Well, I am seeing it in places like in my newsletters. I am seeing it in the extension from the newsletter, which may or may not be attached to it.
00:08:27
Speaker
Again, I'll point to the Shopify blog as an example. It's really hard to find a more aggregated, unique, from diverse voices area to understand how to be an entrepreneur in modern times beyond the Shopify blog, which sounds crazy to say, but they've done an excellent job at really pushing it forward. When I think about a company like HubSpot, for example, very recently acquiring, I think they acquired the hustle.
00:08:52
Speaker
To me, these are strong indicators of excellent thinking around creativity. You could extend it into physical creative and think about what Patagonia has done with their movies and their YouTube channels.
00:09:07
Speaker
Complex, a large media company. They launched this thing called Complexland, which is, I mean, I don't even know how to explain it. Is it a video game? Is it an online learning? You go into this experience and you can shop and meet different vendors and go attend content speeches.
00:09:24
Speaker
There has been a complete explosion of the ability to really build a brand in a creative way. You could even look at platforms like Cameo, which allows anybody to go in and get a celebrity to give a shout out to a friend for a birthday or whatever it might be.
00:09:40
Speaker
You could look at something like MasterClass as another great example of creative ways to build a brand and tell your story.
The Art of Brand Storytelling
00:09:48
Speaker
I'll even go as far as, I have a nerdy, Mark knows me, I have many nerdy things, but one of my nerdy things is I've been trying to do another podcast. My main podcast is called Six Pixels of Separation and I've been doing it, I think it's the longest running business podcast in the world.
00:10:04
Speaker
close to 15 years. But I have another one that I've been doing for about five or six years, which is a monthly show called Groove the No Trouble Podcast, where I'm trying to slowly build the largest oral history of bass players, because I love bass and I used to be a player, but now I just love the music. And in that journey, I met this fantastic company called Scott's Bass Lessons, which seems like, oh, you know, Scott teaching bass lessons, online learning, great.
00:10:29
Speaker
Scott probably has the largest online instructional for any instrument in the world. Guitars, drums, you name it, beyond, I mean, not including things like maybe Berkeley College of Music and things like that. And his, if you look at his, his creativity and his content, it's astounding. Even if he's retargeting you in ads, and by the way, I don't recommend typing in electric bass because you will be, unless you really want to be, you will be retargeted from Scott nonstop.
00:10:57
Speaker
But the, what he does is he's not retargeting you with ads or promos to sign up or anything like that. It's always content and it's really good content. He'll do a video called the three times Jaco Pastorius went beast mode. Jaco Pastorius is a very famous electric bass player. He will take a very famous bass that some player used and do a history of that actual instrument with interviews, uh, the content and creativity of what he's doing in,
00:11:23
Speaker
seven, eight, 15 minute videos that are essentially retargeted ads is super compelling. And so I'm a massive believer that, um, you can do very, very compelling things with creativity beyond the idea of it being just great copy and, and a great picture or photo to go along with it. Now, where do I go from there? A lot of areas we could talk about base plane and,
00:11:50
Speaker
in online education. One of the things that you mentioned that obviously captured my attention is storytelling because I've been a long time storyteller as a journalist and a blogger and doing videos and newsletters.
00:12:03
Speaker
And there is a lot of talk about storytelling. If you did a search on Google, you get, I don't know, 100 million results like within less than a second. Curious about what is actual brand storytelling? When you really boil it down to, and I think a lot of people struggle with this, is that storytelling and concept makes sense. Storytelling in the real world actually doing it is a whole other thing completely. So maybe you can define what good brand storytelling is.
00:12:29
Speaker
and provide some examples of how it happens. You've already mentioned Patagonia as one example and there's brands like Airbnb and GoPro that also do a great job. Give us your take on storytelling and maybe even include why a lot of companies struggle with it.
00:12:44
Speaker
Well, I'll simplify it, which is you live in a world, I live in a world, everybody listening lives in a world where you as a brand or individual can create content in text, images, audio, and video instantly. And what I mean by when I say for free is the distribution channel is primarily free. I mean, there's, there's, there's modalities to that, that we can discuss. Now you can do that also in long form or short form.
00:13:11
Speaker
Now in the world, I mean, look, we're recording this on Clubhouse. You can do it in a world where it's prerecorded and edited or like this live. And so when we talk about what do we mean by brand storytelling, I believe it's simply that as a brand, you need to sit down and define who amongst us.
00:13:28
Speaker
wants to tell a story about our brand our business our story in text images audio video long form short form live pre-recorded what's the right mix for us what makes sense so if you look to me being a market of one or me being the best example for me to use because i know it so well i would argue that my output is text long form audio long form
00:13:50
Speaker
That's the core of what I do. I write long articles, blog posts, things like that. And then I do my hourly podcast every week and my other podcast. And that's my main thing. That doesn't mean I don't do three weekly national radio hits. It doesn't mean I don't tweet. It doesn't mean I don't post pictures of my walks on Instagram. It just means at the core, that's what I do. And by leveraging
00:14:13
Speaker
That understanding of what you do and creating a path for an editorial calendar, how are we going to put this out? What does this look like? You start going down the path where you're no longer limited to the constraints of an ad and you're thinking about your brand as a story as a publishing entity.
00:14:31
Speaker
So when I was running my agency, which I did for over 15 years with my business partners, it was called Twist Image. That's where we started Six Pixels of Separation, the blog. That's where we started Six Pixels of Separation, the podcast. From that, that's what led to speaking events, which I still do a lot of. That's what led to my book deal. So I had two books that I put out, but we looked at it at a meta perspective. We said, okay, we are an agency, Twist Image. It became Mirum in the End. So let's call it Mirum for Consistency.
00:14:58
Speaker
Mira manages two other brands. We also manage this thing that we called six pixels of separation, which was our content container for all of those things, the blog, the podcast, the speaking, et cetera. And we're also managing this brand called Mitch Joel. And I'm not going to talk about myself in the third person, like certain athletes do, but that was the attitude we brought to it. What are we doing to improve and place this brand of Mitch Joel and the storyteller, the face of it, the voice of it into the zeitgeist.
00:15:26
Speaker
And so to me, that's a construct of how we create a storytelling environment. Now, when we take it to the next level, what I think is really interesting about digital marketing and technology is we have the split of storytelling brand building against direct response advertising.
00:15:47
Speaker
And if I said to you, Mark, like Mark, what do you think would be the proper split for a startup or an established business in terms of the storytelling brand side versus the direct response advertising engine? You would probably logically say 50-50. Well, that's what makes sense, but it's not.
00:16:03
Speaker
it over indexes in a massive way towards direct response. If I buy a bunch of ads on Google and Facebook and target them, that's a better way to get sales and customer acquisition. But if you forego that brand, that storytelling, those components of it, you know, woe is you. It doesn't create the longevity you need. And so what happens in the current world is the brands that are struggling are the ones that aren't paying enough attention to the brand and storytelling component.
00:16:30
Speaker
And what happens on the other side is because they're putting that 80%, let's say on direct response and advertising is it becomes a more expensive game of customer acquisition, which speaks exactly to what we had before in the large multinational media universe of
00:16:47
Speaker
You know, it's eight o'clock on Thursday on NBC and if you're not advertising on must see TV, the nation doesn't know you exist. And that became this game of spending and spending against these numbers, which is what we're essentially seeing on the direct response advertising side with the one caveat being you can tweak it a little bit. You can see if it's actually converting and that's the drug of it. And that's why I think so many brands haven't been focused on storytelling because it's almost too easy to do the direct response side of it.
00:17:17
Speaker
Just to jump around a little bit, Mitch, because I know there's a lot of ground I want to cover.
The Virtual Evolution of Public Speaking
00:17:21
Speaker
You have done in the past a lot of public speaking. I suspect that you've probably done your fair share of virtual speaking over the last 12 months trying to get your thoughts and you're probably going to speculate as much as anybody these days about the state of in-person events and speaking.
00:17:39
Speaker
Do you have any sense from the people that you talked to, the bookings that you might be getting about when that might come back? And I would put this into context that in Canada, we're far behind the vaccination curve than the US. So my perspective is a bit different than what might be happening south of the border. How do you feel? What's going to happen with you when it comes to in-person speaking this year?
00:18:01
Speaker
I don't know, similar to you, I don't think it's going to work for me unless I have both vaccinations and things are reasonable here. I'm a family person, I'm a parent, happily, and we've got young kids in Canada. Like you said, it's a bit different in that in the States, everything's open, but the schools are closed in Canada, everything's closed, but the schools are open.
00:18:24
Speaker
And we could have a debate about whether that's good or bad, but I want my kids in school and anything that I do that might have to have them removed from school for multiple weeks due to quarantine and things like that are off the table for me. So my reaction is, right now in the States, it looks like there are some small and local events that are going forward. I've seen even evidence of large events that are happening.
00:18:46
Speaker
Are those international events? Probably not. Are they great ideas? That's not for me to judge or decide on. I have my own perspective, but I don't think it's germane to the conversation. But I can't see myself getting on a plane, in particular leaving the country until I'm fully vaxxed. And I'm at the mercy of governments and decisions about borders and how that works. That being said, my perspective about what's going to happen is different usually than most of my peers.
00:19:15
Speaker
Most of my peers are in this headspace of virtual, hybrid, or physical events, and I think that that's the wrong perspective. What's happened, and it's actually relevant to what we're talking about in relation to marketing, is the world shut down. Let's call it mid-March of last year. And every single business went into survival mode. And I believe that there are three SS here, so that's the first SS survival mode.
00:19:41
Speaker
Everything went virtual. We're all on Zoom. That's life. In August of last year, I think we shifted from survival mode into sustain mode. This is going to be a longer haul. We don't know. There's a lot of uncertainty, second waves, third waves. So how do we sustain? And I think when we talk about sustain at a corporate level,
00:20:02
Speaker
It becomes two directions. Direction one is how do we as a company engage our employees if we have to sustain this as we have been and as we will for a little bit longer or maybe much longer? Two is how do we engage our customers? And I think the reaction from that
00:20:18
Speaker
Is going to be cuz we're still in sustain mode by the way the third s is strive strive is where we probably were in december january of last year. I think that sustain mode is gonna create a different model and so my gut tells me my brain a little bit too that there's gonna be three paths.
00:20:38
Speaker
Path one is the CFO speaks to the CEO and goes, look, we didn't do that 300 person event down in Boston. We did it online and we had 1500 people come in or 15,000 people join. Now we have this content. We can keep reusing this content and pushing this content out there. Why would we ever go physical call if we could reach a larger base in a virtual world?
00:20:59
Speaker
So I do think that there is this push towards much more virtual only types of events. I put events in air quotes. The next one is going back to this idea of how do we gauge our employees? How do we gauge our customers? I think slowly what they're going to realize because part of the workforce will remain remote. Some people will have moved and changed around.
00:21:20
Speaker
they're going to do a lot more what I'll call local and smaller events. So more regionalized events with a higher level of frequency. Instead of doing that big, big event, we'll do two or three in different parts of the country or in different countries and keep it really, really tight and small. This way they're not falling offside in terms of insurance and worried about gatherings that are too large and making people slowly, comfortably edge into this.
00:21:45
Speaker
And then the third one is what I typically do, which is I fly somewhere and I speak to an audience of any size from five to 15,000 people. And I think those are going to be exceptionally popular. I think there's going to, there's a pent up demand that people who complained, oh, I got another conference in Las Vegas are going to be like, how do I get on that plane faster than before?
00:22:03
Speaker
And so what I think is happening is too many people are thinking, well, which one will it be? And my answer is it will be all three. And so if you are a good speaker and a prepared speaker, you suddenly have two new paths that you may not have had before in any mix up. So for me, the two new paths would be virtual only and the more local small regional ones on top of what I was typically doing.
00:22:26
Speaker
So I really believe if you're an event planner, if you're in the speaking business, if you're a professional speaker and you're well positioned, what could happen is you could be busier than ever and have more and more opportunities to speak and grow that business. And this tends to be my overall feeling in general about digital.
00:22:44
Speaker
which is this forced innovation that happened for businesses to survive in that first phase and then shift into sustain have probably created a myriad of new business models and opportunities for businesses to pursue. And my hope is that as we come out of this and I think we're all seeing some light here at the end of this tunnel,
00:23:03
Speaker
um, that they will sustain those and really push them into the strive mode. You know, you have restaurants that were doing zoom lessons, they're suddenly in the online education space and that might be an entirely brilliant new part of business. So I get really excited when I think about what happened through this, you know, what I call this great compression of time to be very opportunistic when it comes to how businesses can grow and expand beyond it.
Networking in the Era of LinkedIn and Clubhouse
00:23:32
Speaker
It would be remiss if I didn't ask you about LinkedIn and Clubhouse over the past year. I've doubled down on LinkedIn. It has been a tremendous.
00:23:42
Speaker
Medium to connect with people have I probably talked to more than a hundred people probably 150 people directly as a result of LinkedIn connections and it's really done my business a lot of good and My brand awareness is is through the roof clubhouse. I'm Ambivalent to be honest with you. I'm not quite sure although I'm sure you have a different perspective because you're quite active and it looks like you you brought your tribe with you give me some perspective on
00:24:10
Speaker
the way that LinkedIn has evolved and what you think of Clubhouse's potential because I think that's kind of like the big wild card right now for a lot of individuals in terms of people who are influencers and brands.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting question too, because we're talking about this in the middle of this other thing that's sitting out there, which is rumors that Discord, which I would say is the grandfather of what we're seeing here on Clubhouse in terms of social audio, is potentially being sold to Microsoft for $10 billion. You never know anything like this, but Microsoft clearly owns LinkedIn.
00:24:49
Speaker
And so the connections there are very curious and interesting to me. If Microsoft wanted some kind of clubhouse competitor or asset, this would be interesting. And the integration of it into a LinkedIn coupled with the fact that they own office could be a very compelling asset for them to have in that portfolio of companies. LinkedIn is a challenge for me because I was in there so early
00:25:14
Speaker
And I basically allowed or connected with everybody thinking that, well, let's just use this as my open space. And anytime I blog or podcast, I'll just pump it in there and that'll push it out to thousands and thousands of people. Well, now you fast forward well over a decade and it's a hot mess for me. So my feed is not clean. It's not clear. It's very problematic for me. I get a lot of inbox spam from people wanting to have 15 minutes phone call with me to sell me some SaaS service that I have no interest in.
00:25:44
Speaker
So my LinkedIn experience isn't as powerful as yours is. I'll caveat that now by saying that my peers, people like you and other friends and just in general anecdote and usage are loving it more and more every day. And I can see why it is a great place to be that professional and to share content and have it be really relegated to business. And when I looked at LinkedIn now, it feels like this weird hybrid of like,
00:26:11
Speaker
Business 2.0 fast company and Wired magazine all in one, which if that's the space you occupy and a lot of us do, it's really, really compelling. In terms of Clubhouse, it's a bit of a different thing. And I think it's what you bring to Clubhouse. I have many thoughts about what Clubhouse is, which stand outside of what it satiates from me. So what does Clubhouse satiate from me? Well, I do three national or international radio hits every Monday morning, one after the other.
00:26:41
Speaker
And I find it really hard to be quote unquote hot on the mic and really good live like out of the box, especially on a Monday morning. And I don't really practice the rest of the week to be live, but now I do. So when you contacted me for this podcast, my desire to do it here is it's forcing me to act and be who I am, but who I am when it's live in front of an audience. And that provides me a place to practice. So Clubhouse for me is a place to get my reps in.
00:27:09
Speaker
The next thing I love about it is that it's live and I do love the energy of lives. So how often have I thought I'd love to do one of my shows in a beautiful theater with a great audience. Then after we all get to hang out, it'd be so much fun, but I get nervous and I would never pull the trigger on that because I worry that nobody would show up.
00:27:27
Speaker
But now I can do that. And I've done it multiple times and we're doing it again here on Clubhouse, which I really, really like that ability to create the live interaction and bring people and have questions. And I just like that energy. So there's that. And then the third is, I mean, it's the business that I'm in.
00:27:44
Speaker
My job is I help people decode the future. I look at what's happening. Where's the world going? What can I play with? And so when Clubhouse came along, I recognized that the Discord platform wasn't for me because while I understand the gaming world, I'm not much of a gamer. This felt like the non-gamer version of that. I was slow to adopt it. I mean, I was given an invite in, I think, October, but it's only been really a couple months that I've come on here to be active.
00:28:11
Speaker
And I like that part of it. I like bringing that energy to it that I can have these different types of conversations. I've also met some really incredible people here. I find the platform much more diverse in terms of gender, in terms of race,
00:28:31
Speaker
in terms of where I live, in terms of how I think, and I welcome those voices. It's nice to see rooms that have that diversity. I worry that it's going to get more and more homogenous as it grows, and I worry that the tech
00:28:47
Speaker
infrastructure beneath it will push it in another direction. But I'm hopeful that I can still find those different rooms that add to my ability to learn more and more about not just diversity, but my desire to understand others better. And I've learned a lot over the past couple of years. I mean, I used to be the person who said, oh, I'm not racist. I've got friends from all over. I wrote for the hour, the alternative weekly. For years, I've been all true.
00:29:16
Speaker
But the other part is the systemic part. The systemic part is me being able to acknowledge that as someone who I self declare as male, pale and stale, right? I'm a middle aged white guy with a ton of privilege that I've had that privilege that the system is set up so that I do have a certain level of privilege that I took advantage of, of course.
00:29:36
Speaker
And so my perspective changes and it's changed a lot because the conversations that happen here in clubhouse. So that's the third part of it. Your, your reason might be really different. You might be, I just want to hang out in cool tech rooms and meet interesting people and speak to other marketers. Fantastic. So that's what makes a social network powerful is finding what your reason for being here would be.
00:29:56
Speaker
We've covered a lot of ground in 30 minutes, and I want to thank everybody for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by IAM to Spotify, one of your favorite podcast apps.