Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
For all its foibles, Club World Cup has been fun
2.1k Plays3 days ago
The Club World Cup is about halfway through the group stage, with three of the six games scheduled in Seattle having now been played. It seems like a good opportunity to take stock of what we’ve learned about both this tournament and the Seattle Sounders’ place in it.
To help give a broader picture, Jeremiah is joined by Niko Moreno and Tim Foss for another episode of “What we learned this week.”
Sponsor
🏠 Marnie Oshan Homes: With 20+ years in marketing, business, and negotiation — and an MBA from UW — Marnie Oshan helps home buyers and investors make smart, informed real estate decisions. From first homes to 1031 exchanges and development deals, she offers expert guidance backed by financial insight and local market knowledge. Expertise in new construction, and well-versed on all types of real estate. She’d like to talk about your goals and is here to help you move forward with confidence. Visit her website marnieoshanhomes.com or email at Marnie@windermere.com.
***
Nos Audietis is the flagship podcast for Sounder at Heart, which became a reader-supported website on Aug. 21. You can support us by becoming a paid subscriber, learn more here. You can also watch many of their shows on YouTube.
Aside from becoming a Sounder at Heart subscriber, you can also support the show by using this link to purchase MLS Season Pass or checking out our merch table to buy various shirt designs.
“Diversions” audio provided by Sounder at Heart subscriber Lars; find more of their music here.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Will Bruin and Sounders Celebration
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaughnessy.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's go. What save by Frye. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winning. Here comes Ruiz Dias through the middle to crowd it for Seattle.
00:00:29
Speaker
And now they truly can start the celebrations. It's the Sounders MLS Cup. Nico Lodero leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Seattle, Sounders, it's got built.
00:00:52
Speaker
This feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny dog. Nice work on your little yacht yat thing. And Portland can't say shit. know, what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't?
00:01:06
Speaker
Ever since Southert Hart wrote a commentary that we didn't take over coming seriously. Go, not Seattle!
Sponsorship and Special Episode Introduction
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of No Sariotis on the Sounder at Heart podcast network. It is Friday. I should say I'm Jeremiah O'Shan. It's Friday. And we have a special episode of what we learned this week, because not only is Nico Moreno here, but so is Tim Foss, two of my Sounder at Heart colleagues.
00:02:03
Speaker
Welcome to the show, guys.
00:02:07
Speaker
Happy to be here. Thank you for ah you for joining us, Tim. It's always exciting to have you on. You always got the great takes. You were at every press conference, actually, one of the few people that was actually able to ask questions to the coaches. So I'm excited to hear what you got to say about, ah first of all, that dynamic. And then, of course, what you heard from from coaches specifically to this game. But, yeah, man, this was great.
00:02:34
Speaker
It's a cool week, man. I mean, it it is a cool week. I got to tell you that um I've kind of been moved around between being really exhausted and really excited.
Club World Cup Excitement and Comparisons
00:02:44
Speaker
But the games have been an incredible. Actually, just about every game in the Club World Cup has been really, really good with the exception of a few.
00:02:51
Speaker
ah So, man, this tournament, you know, starting to grow on me a little bit. I'm not a allowed here. it it That has been maybe the biggest surprise. And I guess maybe it's a good way to just start out wide and we'll dig dig into the Sounders specifically. But this tournament as a whole, I think, came in with a lot of skepticism, especially among people who are you know fans of the European game.
00:03:15
Speaker
i think in general, there's a lot of frustration with FIFA. This was largely seen as a money grab tournament. I think a lot of the, the reality is a lot of the attention before the tournament was about how no one wanted to pay for it on, uh, in terms of broadcast rights.
00:03:34
Speaker
And then, how the money was getting distributed. Obviously a lot of the coverage on sounder heart has been about the fight with the players over their cut of the winnings. And, and I don't think there was ah as much attention paid to the reality that this was the first time we were going to see a bunch of teams from different parts of the world, taking each other on in a real competition with real stakes, say what you will about the value of the trophy itself, but there's real money on the line.
00:04:02
Speaker
And as a result, I would say we've seen mostly competitive games, certainly games where the team seem plugged in. You know, there was the 10 zero Bayern win over Auckland city. I don't think that's totally unexpected. This is a semi pro team lining up against one of the five best teams in the world.
00:04:20
Speaker
The result was the result, right? But other than that game, mostly competitive matches, I guess Juventus got a big win too. So that was one other one that was, ah pretty lopsided, but like certainly in the Sounders games, or they've been very good games, they have been competitive. They have been, you know, high quality for the most part.
00:04:39
Speaker
And I guess just want to get your take. ah We'll start with, with you, Tim, what has been your impression of this tournament in general?
00:04:52
Speaker
Oh, you're muted. Okay.
00:04:57
Speaker
Sorry about that. Having only really watched Sounders games through the tournament, but, yeah you know, seeing clips from other games and hearing from other people. ah FIFA have a nasty little way of weaseling their way from doing objectionable things to getting good product onto the field. I think, you know, the Qatar World Cup was...
00:05:24
Speaker
ah largely seen as a bit of a boondoggle going in and then was one of the best World Cups we've had in a while for a number of reasons. This World Cup, there was a lot of ah consternation coming in from, you know, the teams and players in Europe talking about players being asked to play too much.
00:05:45
Speaker
You know, there are guys who are going to basically play for like 18 months straight and they'll have played 70 games in a calendar year or whatever. It is ah lot to ask, but when you get the best team, like, best teams from everywhere in the world all together on, you know, broadly pretty good surfaces and pretty good conditions...
00:06:11
Speaker
you end up with good football to watch. Like, especially if you add enough cash incentive for teams to take it seriously, they take it pretty seriously. Like we'll get into it more, but Diego Simeone certainly didn't just not want to lose. He wanted to win and he wanted to win bad. Like these teams take it very seriously and the the result has been good.
00:06:44
Speaker
Nico, I imagine you have consumed a little bit more of this tournament than either Tim or I. What's been your impression?
Competitive Matches and Team Performances
00:06:50
Speaker
Man, I've loved every game that I've watched. And ah my um approach to this tournament specifically was had a lot of mixed emotions because I grew up...
00:07:02
Speaker
loving the Club World Cup, even as it was before, simply because it gave South American teams a chance to battle the best of Europe. And if you're a South American, ah we kind of, we don't hate, but we have this like,
00:07:18
Speaker
ah competitiveness about the the European, I would feel like they created the sport, but we perfected it. That's the way we say this at America, or we're the flair. We're the best players in the planet. We have the five-time world club champions, all of these things.
00:07:33
Speaker
So there's always this competition with Europe. So anytime that that tournament kind of happened, you were stuck in front your TV. You wanted to watch it. i was skeptical about this one, particularly because of the new format, because I didn't really know if Teams are going to take it seriously ah because of everything that FIFA kind of embodies at times.
00:07:51
Speaker
But now that I've been able to watch the games, man, it's been of class and and they've been fun games, man. I watched the Benfica Boca Juniors game and it was a fantastic match back and forth. I mean, Benfica is a quality team that maybe it's not like you're ah your Porto and maybe it's not your, i don't know, Bucs.
00:08:11
Speaker
Dortmund or Bayern, but they're a top team, man. And that game was such a quality, just performance from both quads. um Looking back at the Fluminense game against Dortmund, I mean, that was a game, but I could argue the Flamingo was the much better team in that – Fluminense, I'm sorry.
00:08:30
Speaker
Fluminense was the much better team against Dortmund. And, you know, you get to see certain players that ah maybe – no one has really watched on the bigger stratosphere.
00:08:41
Speaker
ah So, man, all of these games to me had just been so cool to just compare game styles uh you know the european game is very direct uh you know it's very simplistic it's all about at being ah extremely effective with your ball possession when the south american game and i think anybody who saw the botafogo game and the atletico game can say the botafogo game was a lot slower they wanted to get on the ball a little bit more and atletico was just like go go go right it's a
00:09:13
Speaker
quick transition moment. So all of those things have really embodied this globalness of soccer culture that I just find so captivating. ah But going back to just the product on the field, I i felt like every single game that I've watched has been competitive The Monterrey-Inter-Milan game, that was another one that I was not expecting Monterrey to go out there and really give it to Inter Milan the way they did. And this was not an Inter Milan that was taking this tournament lightly. I mean, they they had a full-on squad of some of their best players, right? I mean, Latauro, Augusto, Darmian. I mean, so some of the the the players that you were expecting to kind of shine in this one, and and it was a battle. So I love it.
00:10:01
Speaker
I will try to just concise it there and concluded that I've been very impressed by the way that the teams have approached this tournament. And I feel like this is step one to maybe the next go around of this tournament is going to be so much more marketed. It's going to be so much more known. and People are really going to go to it. So I feel like it's going to be even better the next time around.
00:10:27
Speaker
I that's a, that is a fascinating point about it. I do think this has room to grow. i think we could probably pick out some things that we would like to see better. And we'll probably get into that today. ah One other thing, I think that it's notable that ah um it wasn't the Sounders, which, you know, we're always bummed when the Sounders aren't first to do something, but that inner Miami got that win over Porto sort of, I think in a lot of ways, legitimizes the sort of the worldiness or also in the same way that Botafogo being PSG, that these are, this is not a tournament as so far that has just been dominated by European powers. It's been a tournament that has seen ah pretty good mix of results coming from different teams.
00:11:11
Speaker
ah You know, it's been, like I said, it's been competitive almost in every game. And, you know, Miami has been, you know, I think they've actually shown well. I think MLS comes out of this tournament so far looking like they belong in this tournament. And I think providing a lot of the value proposition of why why they even bother doing this.
00:11:36
Speaker
um i don't know. did you Did you watch much of the Porto-Miami game, Nico? I did. And that was another one that was very good because Inter-Miami went out there, as maybe most people expected, to really give it to Porto. And they created a bunch of chances.
00:11:53
Speaker
I thought Luis Suarez could have had a couple there in the first half. But on the other side, Stjane was big for them as well because when Porto got ahead and they were the steamroller, there were lapses of the game where it was all Porto. Lapses of the game where it was all Inter-Miami.
00:12:09
Speaker
And... It all goes back to the messy factor at the end that they're very reliant on because that's who puts away that free kick that kind of gives it away. ah But all in all, man, I thought it was an excellent game.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I really think that anyone who was watching that game, regardless of the big names like – ah Busquets and, you know, the Fantastic Four.
00:12:37
Speaker
we If you go back and you look at that game, the Kromoskis were top-notch. Segovia, that first goal is phenomenal, right? Falcone, he saves one right on the line with his head ah that had a shot that had beats to Ani. So, man, I thought it was really impressive to see Miami just get out there and just play them Head head, right? We're not going bunker. We're not going to worry about this, that, or the other, which is going to put a lot of guys for, we're going to get on and the front foot and yeah, man, they deserve that win but from the beginning.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah. And right now it looks like, like right now they're in position to get out of the group. And i believe like Miami would have, I needed to get a tie in the, in their last game against Porto and they would secure advancement.
00:13:26
Speaker
ah And I guess, so, which would do would potentially knock would that would knock out Porto, which is pretty crazy. ah This is you know, and so right now we're, you know, I think Botafogo potentially, or Botafogo is, I think they are going to win the group, right?
00:13:43
Speaker
They're, I guess Paris, they could still win the group. Okay. But Botafogo secured advancement out of the group. ah and And so that, I don't think a lot
Match Atmosphere and Pitch Management
00:13:52
Speaker
of people would have necessarily predicted that.
00:13:54
Speaker
ah And then you can kind of just go down the list, you know, the, um, these are just all very competitive games right now competitive, at least in the, in the two groups that we've had two games across the board, it's been about as competitive as you can say. Now we're only halfway through the tournament at this, but not halfway through the tournament or halfway through the group stages and say, but it's been, like I said, it's been pretty good.
00:14:19
Speaker
ah The one thing, and it's, i would even say the crowds haven't been great But they've been, i would say, about what you could reasonably expect. I don't know that there is a world where you can manufacture interest Auckland City Benfica, for instance.
00:14:37
Speaker
I don't know, not to denigrate Benfica, but they don't have a huge following outside of Portugal, I don't think. ah It's going to be tough to manufacture you know a big game when you've got teams that just don't have worldwide followings in the attendances.
00:14:55
Speaker
like the sundowns from the, which actually won, which is kind of funny because they won ah their first game, ah admittedly against Olson, but yeah, like I don't know how many and don't know if there's a world where you can put a South African team against any non-big club and think, all right, that's going to drop a big crowd. But in the like in Seattle, I think I've been really happy with the crowd so far. you know There was 30,000 plus in the first game when it was very lively, 30,000. I think that was more maybe more important is that there were a lot of people here
00:15:29
Speaker
or the people that were here were very engaged. And then for this last game, they announced it at almost 52,000. And that might be a little inflated, but i don't know. I've seen the the shots of the crowd.
00:15:41
Speaker
And ah from where we were sitting, it looked very full. I've seen shots of the crowd in various places in the stadium, again, during the game, not at before kickoff. And it was as when it was the best Sounders crowd we've had since probably the Champions League final, right?
00:16:00
Speaker
And so, and then even at the, the, er I went to the Irwa river game. There was only about 12,000 people there, but that was as loud as I've heard Lumen field in a long time. And certainly the the peaks were not as high as the peaks at the Sanders game, but the, like the consistent noise from minute one to minute 90 was like almost ear ringing. I mean, it was, it was just constant. It was very impressive. I was, i loved the Irwa supporters, especially but river plate came out in in good numbers. Like there was, you know, I don't think there was a lot of neutrals there, but the, but the people that were there that were there to see river and to see or what we're super into it.
00:16:38
Speaker
And so know I don't know. I, I, I will. I think there is a lot of fair second guessing of FIFA's ticketing policy. I think we could kind of, we've we've detailed that a lot on the show. I think that stands up. I think that they fucked up by not only pricing it the way they did, but the releasing the tickets in the manner they did, which was releasing the worst tickets first, which is,
00:17:02
Speaker
Still to me, like a mindbogging mind mind bogglingly dumb way of like building ah anticipation for something is that like let people have the worst seats for. I don't know. they It's a very strange. um But ah despite all that, you go to the game and it feels like a big event. I think that's the thing that that has struck me so much is once you're in the stadium, once you're sort of like in the environment,
00:17:28
Speaker
it feels like a big deal. And I, and I think FIFA does deserve credit for, you know, the way they set up the stadiums, the way that they, you know, let's, let's talk about the grass, ah which is easy. It's, it's one of those things where,
00:17:42
Speaker
You can poo-poo the importance of the surface, or but we spend a lot of time talking about it. But I do think it's actually very indicative of the approach to this thing, is that at least in Seattle, where we have a lot of experience with temporary grass pitches that have mostly been substandard, every single person I've talked to, on the record, off the record,
00:18:03
Speaker
No, the the pitch is great. Why can't we do this all the time? that's That's basically the response that we get. It has helped. We're now three games into the grass. It looked great by the end of Atletico match.
00:18:16
Speaker
It looked great at the beginning of the Botafogo match, and it stayed consistent. ah yeah Tim or Nico, whichever one of you want to weigh in this, what have you what have your been in your impression sort of like globally ah about the atmosphere and the – and I guess really technically specifically the grass?
00:18:39
Speaker
I want to hear from Tim because I think that they they asked Brian something about – email maybe thinking that it wasn't the that he wasn't it was a bad slow or something like that but did I hear that correctly i yeah I don't remember the exact question but it was i think it was about atleti walking out on the field before the game maybe the day before or something and that the players described it as like hard and slow or something and yeah
00:19:12
Speaker
Schmetzer's response was like, my players think it's great. So yeah whatever. ah And I like,
00:19:22
Speaker
maybe the atleti team who are accustomed to playing pristine pitches in Spain where they're not really sharing fields with another sport the way that some of you know almost any grass pitch in the U.S. lots of teams elsewhere where they also host NFL or they play rugby on that field as well like they just may be accustomed to a different type of grass pitch, but they certainly didn't seem hampered by it yesterday. So I don't know.
00:19:58
Speaker
ah the The grass has looked great. It would be so nice to be able to have good grass all the time in Seattle ah to play on. I think people are aware you can get good other grass in Seattle all the time. Yeah.
00:20:13
Speaker
But the you know the atmosphere has been great, I think, broadly throughout the tournament. Certainly there have been games that, to your point, Jeremiah, there are just certain games that are tough to draw a real crowd, especially if the pricing is, I mean, even with dropping prices, it's not quite the same as like...
00:20:33
Speaker
being able to, have you know, decide on your lunch break, you're going to pick up tickets to go catch an afternoon baseball game. Like you're still having to drop a not insignificant amount of money to catch one of these noon or 3 p.m. games, whatever. But the or the games you would expect good crowds, the crowds have been good and they've been into it. And don't know what more you could want.
00:20:58
Speaker
It has been a good, good advertisement for the sport. Yeah, i I think that ah looking back at other grass fields that we've had at Lumenfield or the one other couple of times, this is completely different. You know, you could tell that the way they laid it way earlier than they ever have for any sort of tournament has made a huge difference. Every single player that I've talked to has told me that they cannot tell the difference from ah real grass pitch. Yeah.
00:21:27
Speaker
it I had some tell me that, you know, in South America, we're playing in something that's a lot worse than this. So, yeah you know, it's it really is a praise to the the way they set this up. I got to get on it for a couple of seconds after the Boropoco game. And yeah, I mean, he just just is still great it great. feels just like the grass field at Long Acres or, you know, the the clubhouse for the Sounders.
00:21:53
Speaker
So it's a, it's a quality
00:21:57
Speaker
And I think one of the things that is the big difference here is that when the Sounders have laid the grass before, it's sort of out out of um they've They've been forced to do it, essentially. You know, it's either been for friendlies or it's for and been international matches where there's not necessarily a lot of oversight. It's basically do the best you can for as cheap as you can, I think, is probably the general attitude that is taken when putting down a grass pitch. It's usually put down maybe a week at most before the games are being played.
00:22:32
Speaker
Oftentimes only even a few days before the games are being played. And there's not really a quality control aspect to it. You know, when this, when we had the Copa America Centenario in 2016, I want to say that was that, that was maybe the best that they had, but it was not very good.
00:22:51
Speaker
And by the end of the, you know, the, Seattle hosted, I think three matches in that one. yeah And by the end of it, it was looking really, really ragged. And what I think the difference this time is that you have FIFA is taking a lot of care in both the installation and the maintenance of it. After every game, we see them mowing the lawn and we see them replacing the divots and we see them looking for any little, even one of the things that actually that struck me in this last game,
00:23:22
Speaker
Danny Masofsky went in for a slide tackle sort of in the southwest corner, and he took up a pretty big chunk of grass. And it must have been, i guess that must have been in the first half.
00:23:36
Speaker
But at halftime, someone came out and they repaired it. Like this is the kind of care that I think oftentimes gets lost when you are doing this kind of installation where it's like you put it down and then you water it and you sort of hope for the best. You're not sitting there maintaining it.
00:23:52
Speaker
And it's being meticulously maintained. You know, I talked, I actually exchanged some emails with the guy who is in control of the FIFA pitch management. And he told me that so far the the pitch at Lumen field is performing at what he called optimum standards, meaning like it's like the, and then so what basically what they, they measure is like when you bounce a ball off of it, how does it, how does it rebound?
00:24:17
Speaker
How does it feel to your feet? And so it's basically, it's just, pat it's, it's performing like they, exactly how they would, you know, hope that it would perform. And this is a little different than what they're going do next year, which we've talked about a lot, where where they're going to actually rip up the the whole surface and they're going to plant real grass and it's going to be embedded.
00:24:37
Speaker
But man, I can't help but feel like... if we wanted to do this on a more regular basis, we could, if we just were willing to spend the money and it does make a, I really do think it makes a difference. Like it looks, it looks spectacular.
00:24:49
Speaker
it it just, it looks really, really nice on TV. It looks great in person. I do appreciate that you can see the artificial turf sort of in the end zones and it looks like shit.
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah. ah Like relatively speaking to what we're we're seeing everywhere
Club World Cup as World Cup Warmup
00:25:05
Speaker
else. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm someone who is sort of like, I get defensive a little bit about the the field turf here. I think it gets sometimes a bad rap, but that's only because we oftentimes compare it to the,
00:25:18
Speaker
uh, to the the best of the best. And I do think that the field turf is like the the Sounders field turf is better than a lot of poorly maintained grass pitches. And that's the reality. A lot of pitches are poorly maintained, but man, when you put the care in, it does make a difference.
00:25:35
Speaker
No, it it has made a difference. And i believe that is also how the product on the field, right? that yeah The ability for players to perform, the passing, the shooting, the dribble and all this. And we haven't seen people slid all around.
00:25:49
Speaker
I mean, it's been it's been good. and And that's the sort of thing that really takes a tournament to the next level. And if anything, you got to give FIFA a lot of credit for that. Yeah.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah. I think one of the other things that ah anecdotally seems to be the case is that FIFA is treating this like a, like a real warmup for the world cup next year. And that's partly because this is a venue for the world cup. And so they, they're bringing in various technologies and they're, they're trying out stuff, you know, like we're, we're having to go through turnstiles, which is something that we don't normally do at at Lumen Field.
00:26:27
Speaker
they're in They have all this fencing around and they're doing all these kind of things. But I haven't heard many complaints about people struggling to get in on time. I haven't heard any complaints about, you know, there's a lot of police presence and especially right now that feels overwhelming.
00:26:42
Speaker
Although that seemed much more, the like i was I was much more struck by it at the Irwa game. Like I was shocked at how much like, and I'm ah like just uniform police just sitting in the, like patrolling everywhere. And I think that's sort of a, a world that's more of a FIFA thing than it is a current political climate situation, but it is, it's off-putting. I get it.
00:27:04
Speaker
Uh, I, I, I found it a little jarring myself, uh, But other than that, it has actually made – I did not expect this to be the case. It's actually made me more excited for the World Cup next year because it it makes me feel like this is going to feel like something different. And I think that's the thing that's struck me the most is that this just does not – it doesn't feel like – ah a circus that kind of just traveled into town and and is going to disappear, even though that is what it is.
00:27:32
Speaker
ah It feels, it just feels like a big event. It feels much more like, you know, to give an example, like when Cirque de Soleil comes to town and they sort of set up their own venue and you're in your own little world there.
00:27:42
Speaker
And ah I don't know. I'm, I'm, I guess that's, ah that's ah Tim. I think you and I have probably talked about how in the last year, our excitement about being involved in the world cup has diminished because it's just been one negative story after another. I think the political climate understandably has contributed to that.
00:28:03
Speaker
I'm not sitting here saying i am as enthused as I was when the the venues got announced, but I will say that I find myself more interested and more optimistic about what this event meet might feel like at least when you're in the stadium.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think i I would compare it pretty, i think, favorably to the experience of, I mean, I didn't go to the actual game, but ah when MLB brought the All-Star game to Seattle, the like the vibe of going to the FanFest for that that and feels pretty similar where it is sort of like this elevated event with a heavy emphasis on the spectacle of all of it i think they've tried some things that to me don't really seem to work like the what's been described as nba style walkout and play yeah announcements before the games that just feels like a sort of awkward lull that
00:29:13
Speaker
with a small tweak could be a ah bit better. Like if the person announcing sped it up and brought a little bit more energy and then the players jogged out, but instead it's like a leisurely stroll from the tunnel one, every like 15 or 20 seconds at a time. And,
00:29:32
Speaker
It's a little awkward, little long. It is a little bit goofy. every like Every icon looks like a meme coin that you could buy. Some of the stuff is a little chintzy, but i on the whole, aside from... you know i mean, we get spoiled a little bit, but having to pay what feel like stadium prices for food in the press box feels...
00:30:00
Speaker
Yes. Like it sucks a little bit, but yes it it is still like slightly elevated food from usual. Like that everything has this vibe.
00:30:13
Speaker
feel to it that i think especially if they can figure out take away some good learnings about like oh maybe if you don't immediately price people out you will have better attendance they can apply that to the world cup next summer like some of those things but it does provide a sense of optimism for what the overall experience could be next summer Yeah, the dress rehearsal thing is something that's very real. And you guys have already said it all, so I'll be concise. But i think most importantly is that they are kind of figuring out this couple of wrinkles that that I think will get ironed out.
00:30:54
Speaker
there's clearly going to be a lot more demand because there is, if there's something that has been true always is that when you're talking about ah a world cup and a nation, obviously just the popularity just increases, right? When you're talking about clubs, you're talking about groups within a nation.
00:31:11
Speaker
When you talk about a national team is everybody coming out. I mean, I've Mexico, China filled up ad lumen field before Mexico, China. I mean, you know, it wasn't like, all this, you know,
00:31:23
Speaker
star power it was just two nations and it was full so i expect that to be the case uh and man when he comes to our side of the business then we're not going to bore the audience with it but it's been weird it's been odd but i guess for us it's also a learning experience of what we might have to encounter for the world cup next year it has been kind of funny on our like i and i I haven't talked as much about it because I don't know how much people care and I don't know how much it like it. There are annoyances like the the way that we are sort of herded around Lumen Field is much more ah just much more direct. Like there's ah we don't have as much freedom to go where we want.
00:32:08
Speaker
There's a lot more kind of hoops that we have to step through. One of, but you know, Noah, who is one of our I'm not going to get into the details of this, but Noah, who's one of our who you probably know from Lobbing Scorchers.
00:32:18
Speaker
He's been kind of jerked around a bit about, you know, his credentials. We I had a snafu where originally they weren't going to let us. Actually, all of us, I think, had this experience where they weren't originally going to let us into the press box and they had to fix some stuff. So there's there are things that need to be.
00:32:34
Speaker
ironed out it's not perfect right now it's just i think the overall sense i get is i'm gonna kind of miss this like it's gonna be there is gonna be like a letdown factor of when this is over gonna be like we're we're just going back to regular old mls games and it makes me excited about potentially making an i mean it does make me want to make another you know, club world cup.
00:33:00
Speaker
Like I, I hope the Sounders qualify again. Like it it's not, I'm definitely not coming away from this feeling. ah well, that's what it was, you know, like, it and I think it helps that the Sounders have been competitive and we're going to talk about that.
00:33:12
Speaker
Uh, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and we're going to dig into actually what we learned from the Sounders. don't know. Maybe that's the more interesting stuff for our listeners, but I i did think getting some of these high level things was important.
00:33:24
Speaker
Uh, but yeah, you're listening to no, I'll get this.
00:33:29
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nos Anietes, Lobbing Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. We've been independent since August of 2023, but need your support to make sure it continues.
00:33:42
Speaker
Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible by your continued support. Memberships start as low as $25 a year, which not only helps make podcasts like this one happen, but also gets you access to everything we produce.
00:33:55
Speaker
If you're able to support us at higher levels, starting at $75 a year, you gain access to a host of other perks, most notably entry into our members only discord where the smartest, funniest, and most engaged commenters share their thoughts and ideas.
00:34:11
Speaker
To find out more, just visit center at heart.com and click the subscribe button in the top right corner. Thanks for listening. Nos Adientes, admittedly, is not exactly known for our spicy takes, but that doesn't mean we want our food to be mild.
00:34:25
Speaker
Spice up your life with Hacks and Ferments. Handcrafted in Georgetown and made it with the best local ingredients from across the Pacific Northwest, they specialize in unique small batch fermented hot sauces and vinegars.
00:34:37
Speaker
Hacks and Ferments brings bold flavors and natural fermentation together for something truly special. Whether you're a heat seeker or just looking to elevate your cooking, you'll find something you love at haxanferments.com.
00:34:50
Speaker
That's H-A-X-A-N-F-E-R-M-E-N-T-S dot com. And right now, if you use the code sounder at heart, that's all one word, at checkout, you will get a free hot sauce with your order.
00:35:06
Speaker
Again, go to hacksandferments.com, use the code sounder at heart at checkout for a free hot sauce with your order. Hacks and Ferments is a proud sponsor of that Sounder at Heart podcast network.
00:35:19
Speaker
Sounder at Heart's Club World Cup coverage is being sponsored by realtor Marnie O'Shann. Yes, that's my sister. With 20 plus years in marketing, business and negotiation and an MBA from UW, Marnie O'Shann helps home buyers and investors make smart, informed real estate decisions.
00:35:34
Speaker
From first homes to 1031 exchanges and developmental deals, she offers expert guidance backed by financial insight and local market knowledge, expertise in new construction, and well-versed on all types of real estate. She'd like to talk to you about your goals and is here to help you move forward with confidence.
00:35:51
Speaker
While I'm obviously not an impartial observer, I can tell you that I have referred both friends and family to Marnie and she's helped them get what they were looking for at prices they wanted to pay. You can reach her at Or email her at marni at windermere.com.
00:36:14
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adietes on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. ah So we are goingnna we are going to talk about the Sounders and some of what we learned about the Sounders.
Sounders' Performance and Challenges in Player Acquisition
00:36:25
Speaker
ah So, Nico, let's start with some of these big picture things.
00:36:29
Speaker
Sounders have played two games. They played two games against two very good teams. I think that the Atletico speaks for itself. This is one of the best teams. This is a top 20 team in the world.
00:36:41
Speaker
I think Botafogo, there was a little bit more question about how good is this team really? Well, I think we found out how good they were. They beat PSG yesterday, one zero. ah They clearly are no who slouches either.
00:36:54
Speaker
Just like kind of broadly speaking, what do you think we've learned about the Sounders in these two games? I think that we've learned that they can compete. And look, I thought I was a the little and we'll get into it but i thought it was a little bit harsh on them in the post-game show after the Athletico game.
00:37:09
Speaker
ah but but the the the reason why I was a little bit harsh is because I kind of felt like the goals they give up were so ah easy and like ah just fundamentally off, right? It's a set piece, is a guy that's unmarked at the top of the box, all of these things, ah even against Botafogo, was kind of the same thing.
00:37:30
Speaker
there is a ill-advised and naive, terrible decision by Nuhu on top of the corner of the box. It sets up a set piece that ends up in a Jaya Cunha header into the goal.
00:37:44
Speaker
It kind of takes the wind of the sails of a Sounders team that had got on off to a good start. um So when it comes to what was similar or some of those things that they'll continue to be an issue for the Sounders, um I feel like, know,
00:38:00
Speaker
in both games, they were in them. I mean, did they competed, right? And it was courageous against Atletico. It was believing that they belong against a Botafogo.
00:38:11
Speaker
it And that's kind of the takeaway I got out of it. um the The main issue continues to be ability to finish in front of goal.
00:38:22
Speaker
And that's another one that just carries over. and and so when we're talking about the broad aspect of it, that's a big one. there's always going to be that what if the team had been healthy? What if Gordon Moore was in full shape and and you know ready to go in full full form?
00:38:40
Speaker
What if Yammer Gomez and Jardim had been there for that first game where his game is literally what kind of killed us against Botafogo, those aerial dudes, the physicality, someone that can chase down Igor De Jesus all over. Igor De Jesus, by the way, he was the one that – you know, gave it to PSG.
00:38:59
Speaker
ah And he's the one that puts that goal away because he's that good. having a guy like Yammer would it be very interesting just to see how they would really match up. Right. So, If I have to put both games into like this vacuum and and come up with the conclusions, I'd say that people should be encouraged. And I know that nobody wants to hear that because, you know, in soccer, moral victories are in sports. You know, moral victories don't really exist. And it's kind of tough to really look at it that way. And they're going to be being apologetic.
00:39:30
Speaker
But. Moving on for the rest of the year, I do feel like this is going to boost up the team's confidence. he It's going to let Brian kind of put in his notebook some of the guys that have performed, some that haven't, maybe use this as a way to get right for Leagues Cup, get right for MLS play.
00:39:50
Speaker
um But all in all, at the end of the day, the the the main conclusion is that Seattle competed. And I think that's what we all had as the the standard for this Clubbrook Cup. I don't think none of us were expecting them to get out of the group of deaths.
00:40:07
Speaker
against, you know, clubs that have one player that's worth the entirety of your roster, like Julian Alvarez. Julian Alvarez is worth twice what the Sounders' whole roster is worth. Like, that's a real, I mean, i don't know if it's real. It's it's a chance remark, but it's, that's I mean that's a real perception.
00:40:25
Speaker
like This is, these are the, the, the athletic budget or the athletic evaluation is like 10 times that of the sounders. ah they These are, that's, that's, you know, that's what the metrics say, but I, sorry to cut you off.
00:40:39
Speaker
No, no. that That was kind of it because I wanted to hear from you guys as well. But um I did have mixed feelings and I'll be very frank about it because in one hand I had, man, you know, Seattle is showing to the world and all the people that said that the Sounders were going to take 10 and 7 and you know, they you know That wasn't quite it. and And we never thought that was going to be the case, but we always thought we were going to compete, but now it's there.
00:41:06
Speaker
They competed and not they just competed, but they could have won specifically that Botafogo game. Right. And then on the other hand, you have that exact same thought process and you're like, man, I mean, did did we really miss a chance to maybe get a, draw against Botafogo? What if Pedro and Paul come in a little bit earlier? What if you put away a couple of those chances?
00:41:27
Speaker
What if it were healthy? All those things kind of come to mind. So there's a lot of mixed feelings, but overall, I feel like encourage should be the word that will come out after these two games. Yeah, I think your point that there aren't moral victories is correct. Like the ah Sounders certainly are not going to I mean, they and kind of have to some extent pumped their chest about, you know, the only MLS team to score in two separate club world cup games, but they're not like no one from the actual club is going to tell you that by losing two of two games, they succeeded on their, like they accomplished their goals, but they,
00:42:16
Speaker
In the club World Cup, in a group of deaths where you're facing one of the top three Spanish teams, a Copa Libertadores and Serie A champion and the UEFA Champions League winners, best team in the world in France, the pretty arguably best team in the world by some margin.
00:42:40
Speaker
If you can hang tough, that's like there is a moral victory there, especially when you start layering on the caveats of like, OK, well, you had to start your third choice center back on a gimpy leg.
00:42:56
Speaker
oh Oh, well, yeah in that first one who you're cooking. him being injured kind of like results in both of the goals to a certain extent.
00:43:07
Speaker
The fourth choice center back comes in against Atletico Madrid and you still only gave up three goals. Like there were chances for a lot more, but there were chances for the sounder just sounders to score a lot more than one goal in either of those games. Like i you know, I Diego Simeone got asked first by some very condescending and rude Spanish reporters in the postgame about the Sounders, and then by our friend and colleague Mazvita,
00:43:42
Speaker
about the Sounders and did not seem to be just blowing smoke up Seattle's ass. Like he was very complimentary ah speaking about Stefan Fry, that it wasn't just that at Letty blue chances. Stefan Fry did a lot to keep them from scoring more than one goal in the first half.
00:44:01
Speaker
He was very complimentary about, you know, the, the, Maz asked what his team speech was at halftime and his response was basically like, I told them to stay calm because if they lose their heads, this is the team that can and will hurt us that we were lucky that they didn't in the first half. And we just kept playing our game. We knew we had a chance to win, but we couldn't throw it away because this is the team that is capable of hurting you. If you leave too much space behind, like,
00:44:35
Speaker
No other team has treated like the Sounders were a pushover and the Sounders have proven themselves to not be like, yeah, it doesn't feel good to lose two one and 3-1 in games where you had a chance to take something from them. But it's also like in the context of not a bad result. I certainly haven't left any of the games feeling like I'm going to lose sleep about what happened. Like, think there's a lot of positives that the team can take from these three games. I think it's
00:45:10
Speaker
The PSG game should be interesting because PSG needs to win. i might download the Zone app to watch Botafogo and Atleti because that game is going to rock.
00:45:21
Speaker
Like, i think if nothing else, the Sounders have played pretty well. And i have a newfound appreciation for a few different teams. Like, don't know.
00:45:36
Speaker
I will i was also piggyback a little bit on what Nico said there is that the feeling i can't shake to the degree that I am. I wouldn't say I'm losing sleep over this, but I, I can't shake this feeling that it would have been really nice to see the Sounders a little closer to full strength than we saw them because it did, especially in the Botafogo game, it felt like either Yamar or Jordan Morris potentially makes a difference in that one.
00:46:03
Speaker
I think especially, ya and I think you can talk yourself into Yamar making a big difference in in in the second game too. Maybe both of them really making a big ah difference because for all the chances that Botafogo created,
00:46:16
Speaker
I think one of the one that kills me the most, well, there's two of them that really kill me. The first goal, what are you going to do Like he bangs that in from the edge of the penalty area off the underside of the crossbar.
00:46:29
Speaker
There's not a lot. you Maybe you close them out a little faster, right? but the second goal is off of a, a similar play. And what's frustrating is that there's no one Mark there. Like the sounders just watched after that came off, like Steph did us a good job to bang the ball off the crossbar.
00:46:47
Speaker
It looks like he's going to maybe be able to get it. It turns out the ball was a little farther out from him than I think it looked from our angle, but the other angles made it look like, okay, he didn't really have a great shot at, at grabbing that off the crossbar. Yeah.
00:47:00
Speaker
But what kills me is no one was there picking up Wetzel in the box. He's just sitting all alone in front of the easiest finish. I mean, it was like a 0.99 chance. You don't see that very often.
00:47:13
Speaker
ah he didn't miss. and But you just can't allow that sort of opportunity. And I think that's the the thing that kills me about that chance is the the defense seemed to kind of shut off. And then similarly on the on the last goal was a similar situation where it was just a throw in that John Bell doesn't get a great clearance on.
00:47:30
Speaker
And then no one's able to sort of close it. And I think what but watching the replay, what was frustrating is that there's no one, but like no one is picking up that side. Like there's no right back on the outside of bell to pick up the ball. If it goes past him,
00:47:45
Speaker
or I should say Kalani was there, but there needed to be there. there He wasn't, he was a little too far in. And then there's no one, there's no right winger. i think honestly, like it kills me. I think Paul may have lost his mark there because that that's who looked like it was marking Barrios in the, in the buildup. And he, he just seems to have totally lost him. So it's just a little frustrating that there was some miscommunication that there was just some like lax defending.
00:48:09
Speaker
And then the chances that they had, you know, both Mussovsky, I'm not going to beat up Danny Masofsky because the reality is that he's doing the job that he's being paid to do.
00:48:21
Speaker
But he got two great chances in this game. He put them both on frame, so you know you can't get too mad. But you also can't help but be like, God, you'd like to finish those. you'd like you'd like and even And then the Ferreira goal that got waved off,
00:48:37
Speaker
I feel like Ferreira probably could have kept himself on side and still gotten that same chance. And it's, and and I don't know if that's on him. You know, Georgie's making sort of like a ah a little slalomy run. And sometimes those are hard to stay on side with because the, it's like the, the line is moving and it's, and it's, you get caught.
00:48:54
Speaker
And so I don't want to beat up Ferreira too much, but I do think, a little more, you know, a little bit more awareness of his surroundings. He's on side and he's no less open if he's on side than when he was offside. So that was, you know, those are all things that, that we're even talking about these things.
00:49:10
Speaker
I think is a positive though, because it so shows how fine the margins really were in these games. And I, and I think Atletico absolutely showed their class. I think Atletico especially was,
00:49:22
Speaker
I think we saw exactly why this is such a good team. Like Julian Alvarez is an unbelievable player. That volley that he hits off the crossbar is nothing that it came from nothing. And it's just like, and the chance that he has where he shoots it wide, a great chance from them.
00:49:38
Speaker
They're, they're forward. like I'm blanking on his name. The Norwegian guy. Alex. So. like ah just alex <unk> so voting Yeah. sort He got, yeah, he got himself into like unbelievable positions. It was kind of shocking. He didn't score a goal, but I think that speaks somewhat to the defense. and that's the other we go for in alita Exactly. when goldco in laliga That he was behind Julian Alvarez the last season. I mean, the the guy is, is physical specimen, by the way. I mean, the guy is huge.
00:50:12
Speaker
Dolph Lundgren in Rocky III is what I thought he looked like. Man. Incredible. And to both of you guys' as points, I talked to the players, and you're going to be able to find these both on Pools of Sports.
00:50:24
Speaker
ah Koke, you know, he was like, you i't know I was surprised that, not surprised, he said, I thought that the Sounders played us without any fear. They they they really went at us. They really were were aggressive.
00:50:36
Speaker
I talked to Wetzel, and he basically said, look, that there was a point in time where we let them believe that And, you know, it was kind of tough because we didn't really know them as a group. Everybody was very complimentary about what the Sounders did and ah both implied that there were moments that were difficult and they really pushed them back. and And they had to kind of get out of ah that brief moment from the Sounders to really get going. And that alone coming from all those guys is an incredible praise ah because you're talking about a guy in Wetzel that, you know, played in ah with Belgium and of the national teams played for Dortmund.
00:51:16
Speaker
I mean, you know, you could talk about everything that Coca has done with a champion, ah even Giuliano Siméoni, you know, he talked about how good and how difficult it was to play this team.
00:51:27
Speaker
ah So those are all things that you could kind of hang your head on. ah Again, not about moral of victory, but just about, hey, you know what, maybe we are better than at times we play like the potential. There are those lapses that that's what kind of drives us crazy, right? Those lapses of moments that could have been so preventable.
00:51:47
Speaker
ah But I would say maybe not the the perfect way as it usually is. But I had a coach that used to say sometimes who we're outclassed, not outperformed.
00:51:58
Speaker
I feel like that's what happened to the Sounders, right? I mean, outclassed the quality of players that were on that field, but outperformed not completely, right? There were moments and times where Seattle definitely controlled. They ah advanced the ball, right? They got in the right positions.
00:52:14
Speaker
It may be with our own ah talent it It might have made a difference. You know, ah Jordan Morris maybe gets to more than one of those balls. So he's a lot quicker to get to certain spots.
00:52:25
Speaker
Maybe he's definitely going to stretch the field more. I think that's kind of what the Sounders, the one thing Sounders have been missing in these two games is they've not gotten into transition really at all. Like they've done a good job of pressing.
00:52:38
Speaker
They've done a good job of passing between lines. They've done all the stuff that you want them to do. but they have not been able to get out on the break at all. Like, and I think that is where you most feel Jordan Morris is there's just no threat of, you know, like the teams have been able to compress the field more than, than is ideal. And I think that speaks well of the Sounders ability to still play through it. Like they did like Atletico is one of the best defensive teams in the world. The Sounders did not,
00:53:07
Speaker
struggled to complete passes. They didn't struggle to break lines. They, know, you can go through the metrics and, and honestly the metrics ah look great ah for the most part. Like they, other than, you know, the, the quality of the shots that they got into the Sounders were equal or better than, than Atletico like down the list.
00:53:27
Speaker
ah And so I think that speaks well to them. And I just want to point out, this is ah like, if you told me that the Sounders were going to start a club world cup game, with Reed Baker Whiting at left back with John Bell at left center back with Jackson Reagan at right center back and Kalani Kosari Enzi, who was not even on a first team roster at the start of this season.
00:53:47
Speaker
And that they would not only start the game, but they would hold their own. And there were moments in this game where you actually thought they might get a result here. Like after Rusnak scored, I thought, you know, they might be able know that it lasted five minutes.
00:54:01
Speaker
Yeah. yeah That hope only lasted about five minutes, but it was there. Like there was a moment where I was like, they might be able to pull off a result here. yeah,
00:54:13
Speaker
And I thought they actually, acted after the third goal, I thought they looked like they were just as likely to score as, as Atletico was. So yeah whatever, maybe it's faint praise. I don't know. But I, I, I think the danger to the degree that there's a, I guess someone asked this in our discord recently, they said, is there a danger? The Sounders are going to be demoralized. by this tournament and I don't think that's the problem at all I actually think they are going to come out of this tournament feeling really good about themselves I think if there's a danger it's that there's a let down like I think there's a possibility that they come out of this and they go back in the league play and they're like this just doesn't have the juice like this this feels like it's coming off like if anything they're going to be coming down from a high I think and I and I and I know it'll be interesting to see how they do against PSG because if they are able to stay competitive with PSG I'm not even going to
00:55:03
Speaker
Whatever. I suppose stranger things have happened. They they might build a good off a win. But the reality is that they I think they'd have to win 3-0 and for Botafogo to beat Atletico to advance out of this group. That does not seem plausible or realistic. So let's i don't need to dwell on that.
00:55:21
Speaker
But if they can be competitive in this game, and by competitive, I just mean in the last 20 minutes feeling like they have a chance at a result, I think that they're going to come out of this tournament feeling really good about themselves.
00:55:37
Speaker
Go ahead, Tim. i I just was trying to think, because I don't know what the tiebreaker scenarios look like. It might take more than three goals. because i think Well, I think they would, in that scenario, my understanding is it would go from, because there would all there would be three teams tied on three points in that scenario.
00:55:58
Speaker
i The Sounders would be, i think, equal. on goal difference if they won And then it would go total goals scored in the hole in the whole tournament. And so if they were to win three zero they'd go through. If they were to lose four or if they win for one though, they wouldn't go through.
00:56:18
Speaker
Again, these are, these are relatively implausible scenarios. I still stand by what I said yesterday, that the best chance for them going through is two other teams dropping out. But i think regardless, I think there's a lot for ah lot for the Sounders to feel good about. i hope that whether they get a win, you know, they play well against psg and if they,
00:56:43
Speaker
it the risk of a drop-off is there, you know, the Sounders can bring their own juice. Like, I think if they come out of this tournament and they can roll together some results, they can keep getting healthy.
00:57:00
Speaker
You know, i feel like, Sounders fans want to be energized and excited to come to games. They have come to these games or watched them and had a good time. And the Sounders can keep playing well and playing exciting and take the momentum. that they've gained from this, that, you know, bravery and courage that Brian Schmetzer has talked about in how they've played and feel like if we can hang tough against some of the legitimately best clubs in the world, can beat anybody in MLS. And, know,
00:57:35
Speaker
if they go into games with that attitude, if they bring the energy that they've had in their best moments against teams in this tournament, like they absolutely can beat anybody. And if you start putting that product on the field and, know,
00:57:53
Speaker
stacking up points at home and like people are going to come and watch games and the stadium is going to be rocking. And i think they're, you know, they can build themselves up if they're, even if there is a a bit of a drop.
00:58:08
Speaker
This is my concern. And I'm probably going to give in a popular um opinion here. ah But first of all, Botafogo beat PSG because Botafogo decided we're going to play on a mid to low block.
00:58:23
Speaker
We're not going to get out. We're not going to allow you to get in transition. We're going to overpopulate the midfield. We're not going to let Duwey get into space. And we're going to basically bunker. And then they got one transition moment off of a midfield that ended up and resulted in an Igor Dejicis. We passed.
00:58:40
Speaker
Great pass. and And they held on for their life all the way to the end of the game. They they had a couple of moments, but but most of it, it was all PSG. So let's put that out there because I don't see the Sounders necessarily going out there a bunker. I also don't advise it because that's the way Botafogo play. They have a couple of huge, great center backs. They have some very good, talented fullbacks. Not like said, they don't have their own you know players, but I don't know if it's going to translate exactly to a positive result against PSG.
00:59:12
Speaker
But the unpopular opinion is this one. How much are you willing to risk your top players in a game that might ultimately not mean anything because you're already almost out of it? Your percentages of going through the next round are very little, are slim to none. Clearly you are out there.
00:59:33
Speaker
you know, match in every other duel, how much do you risk Obed? How much do you risk Christian? How much do you, ah you know, your wing play maybe, you know, you got a lot more guys that haven't played a lot of minutes, but to me,
00:59:48
Speaker
Christian and Obed are so important in so many ways, not just like in how important they are moving forward, but Obed has, you know, potentially a whole other future ahead of himself here soon.
01:00:00
Speaker
How much do you really expose them to a really difficult game after they were it was physical? They played 90. I mean, oh, no, not both of them because JP came on.
01:00:11
Speaker
But regardless of how much a JP came on for a risk. Oh, you're right. Oh, yeah, because he he he pushed us a 10. Yeah. oh but Yeah. yeah So there you go. So you played him in so many positions. You've kind of risked them a lot.
01:00:24
Speaker
I am fearful. And again, this is unpopular because nobody wants to hear the Sounders are going to play out with their B squad or with some rotational stuff against PSG. But to be simple, you've got to protect players from themselves.
01:00:36
Speaker
And you've got to think ahead of what's coming. So I don't know what you guys think about that. I said that in the postgame with Aaron Levine, and he's like, yeah. Casuals are not going to like that. And I know that they're not right. Because you want to go see the best of the Seattle has against the best of PSG.
01:00:52
Speaker
But to me, it's, it's a very difficult situation. I just want to um before we get into this, I do want to point out, you casually mentioned that you are on q thirteen with Aaron Levine yesterday. We should have led with that.
01:01:05
Speaker
So this is the, this is the star quality that we bring to no city. This is, uh, cabrano being on TV. on tv But no, I do think there's some value to what you're saying.
01:01:21
Speaker
i guess what I would counter that with, though, is i think the Sounders are in exactly the position... that they probably thought they were going to be in, which is to say that effectively out of the tournament going into this PSG game and that the PSG game is not necessarily about grinding out a result as much as it is making a case that you can do this.
01:01:45
Speaker
And so in that sense, I do, I do want to see them put their best foot forward because I think, and But if i could I think I would be a little bit more sympathetic to maybe maybe JP starts for Christian, and then you or maybe JP comes on at halftime for a Christian or something like that. Because I do think that's that's one of the ones where I'm a little bit more.
01:02:04
Speaker
But like Obed, I want to see Obed play against PSG. I think that's really like that's that's about building up his value as much as anything else. Because this is how you show. I think he showed against Athletico that he can hang, that he can play at that level.
01:02:20
Speaker
I think actually Reed Baker Whiting showed that he can play at that level too. yeah And, and I, this is a little bit of a side, but I, I talked to Reed after the game and what struck me about his demeanor was he was really frustrated at the mistakes that he thought he made on, i guess the first two goals. I didn't immediately identify him as being at fault, but he felt like he,
01:02:44
Speaker
Didn't he did something wrong that, that didn't put himself in the best light. I also want to say, i thought he did great on the, the, the penalty that was called. I thought he defended that really well.
01:02:55
Speaker
I think it was justified that that got, that got taken away. First of all, I think that if it was a foul is outside the box, but I also think there was a great case to be made that he, he made, had there was no foul.
01:03:06
Speaker
He was, he was in a hand fight essentially with Giuliani Simeone and our Giuliano Simeone. And, And so I just wanted to say that, but I do think i still want to see the Sounders I don't know. I realize it's not entirely logical, but I would be bummed if they, you know, like I'm trying to think who else I would be okay with maybe sitting. Like, I don't think you should push him onto the field, for instance. Like there's no, I think that's a ah good example of there's like in a, in a situation where this result really is potentially more meaningful.
01:03:41
Speaker
Maybe you do try to get something out of Kim. Jordan Morris, another one where, I don't know, I suppose there's a world where he might be fit enough to start. Against PSG, I think... and Not in while to me.
01:03:53
Speaker
Yeah, no, I don't think... I think he's got to come off the bench again. or he I would hope that he's fit enough to come off the bench in this one. ah Who else?
01:04:04
Speaker
But yeah, I think the... the the wingers are going to rotate. However, like, I don't think there's too much danger there, but I, I mean, I want to see Rusnak start. I think I want to see Mussovsky start at the nine. Although I could, I could be convinced that Ferreira could, could do that role just as well.
01:04:21
Speaker
Um, I think one thing i I have been a little bit, I i would have liked to have seen a little bit more Georgie in this series or in this tournament. Georgie did, was able to do his thing against Atletico.
01:04:34
Speaker
ah You know, I think he had some moments where they were really, you know, they were positive moments. And I've been frankly a little disappointed in, in Ryan Kent, uh, He here's a guy who has the, who's been in games like this, who's faced opponents like this. If not, ah he may have actually literally played at let it go. I don't know.
01:04:53
Speaker
I didn't go through it, but I would have liked to have seen a little bit more from him in both games. I don't think he was, he has been effective in this tournament. I'm still like, I still think he was a ah good signing. I still like him, but this was kind of the reason you, part of the reason you brought brought brought him in is in moments like these. And he has not really,
01:05:12
Speaker
Look particularly like he's been like probably their fourth or fifth best winger, which is pretty not great. You know?
01:05:23
Speaker
i think not what you want to see when like Paul Rothrock is having significantly greater impact in both games than Rothrock.
01:05:39
Speaker
just about any of your other wingers. Like I love Paul Rothrock as much, if not more than most, but he,
01:05:51
Speaker
he is not a guy with Europa League final experience, or even if it's at youth levels, Argentine international team experience, like,
01:06:06
Speaker
I think ah Ryan Kent has been most disappointing of that bunch, but like Pedro de la Vega has also not like, he's not been terrible, but he hasn't shown as much as joan yeah he needs to
01:06:22
Speaker
And I, you know, maybe those experiences for those guys lead to a better performance against PSG or coming out of the tournament, feeling like they, you know, need to make up for that letdown. But there, yeah, there have been guys who have impressed beyond what maybe would have been expected, if not hoped. I mean, I think, you know, Obed and Reed in particular, the hope is pretty high. The expectation expectation is not quite as high, but it's pretty high. And I think those guys have certainly exceeded expectations, but there are players on the opposite side of that coin as well.
01:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, I want to get in on this because it is something that ah has been evident in this tournament as well, is that your top players haven't quite performed the way you want them. And I'll i'll even say Albert, because in the first game, Albert wasn't good against Botafogo necessarily.
01:07:24
Speaker
thought that he struggled in this one. He gets the goal, but I mean, it's difficult, right? Because again, we're going to be an outclassed. um I thought Paul Rothrock, look, Llorente is not even a right back. Llorente is a midfielder that's mainly known for attacking presence, right? He played for Real Madrid for the longest time. And the way he pocketed Paul was just...
01:07:46
Speaker
Crazy to me because that's not his forte. And Paul is always going to give you problems. But he was very quiet. Paul Rothbard, he just could not get past this guy. So when a guy like Ryan can that as Jeremiah ah implied, he has the pedigree.
01:08:04
Speaker
There's a guy you you would think that is going to come in and shine. and he doesn't. That's when things go you even more ah bleak and when you feel like you have no response. And that's where the Georgie shout is so good because when Georgie came in, he came in hungry, baby. I mean, he came in like I haven't got in a minute. I need to show up.
01:08:29
Speaker
He immediately creates problems. He immediately gets that. you know, ricocheting to Pereira. I mean, the whole thing about the way he approached the game is probably what you needed. And even Pedro de la Vega, I'm a big Pedro de la Vega guy. I have said time and time again that he does create a lot because he is so engaged. He is so active, but he just wasn't clinical and he's finishing product. Wasn't quite there ah in in this one, in either game, I guess, because obviously he does create a spark in the Botafogo game. But once again,
01:09:01
Speaker
The whiff, you know, the last shot at the end, he doesn't quite get it there. So the Sounders top players just haven't quite performed to the top level. And that's going to be a problem no matter what. And if anything, I hope that that turns for the rest of the year because they're going to need every single one of those players to really shine. If you're going to have a successful rest of the 2025 season.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, and I think if there's one more thing that i feel like is worth highlighting is I've been guilty of this as anyone was saying, sort of like when the people have been frustrated about the lack of signings going into this tournament, I've been among the people who have said something along the lines of,
01:09:46
Speaker
don't get caught up in signings for this tournament. I don't know how much of a difference that would have made anyway. Like we aren't suddenly going to be on the same field as at the same level as PSG and athletic go. Cause we made a number nine signing. Let's just say, I still think that's true, but I have to admit that if they had been able to bring in one impact player,
01:10:08
Speaker
it clearly would have made a difference in this. Like, I think that they've been close enough that that player could have made a difference. It wouldn't have certainly made them better than Botafogo or Atletico and certainly not PSG, but you can see how one, just one moment of brilliance would have potentially changed both of those games.
01:10:28
Speaker
And we didn't, we haven't gotten that like the Sounders have done well to generate scoring chances and to score goals in each game and to be competitive and to be right there.
01:10:39
Speaker
But at no point did they have a player who just sit like, look at like, i just did that. Like I'm capable of doing the same things. And like, let it go had four or five of those moments in that game yesterday where he was just like, yeah, the centers don't have anyone who can do that. That's just not a thing.
01:10:56
Speaker
And I think it's, and so that's a little bit of a disappointment I think is that we didn't, we just aren't, I don't think we gave ourselves the best chance to succeed in this. And I think it it speaks well of how well they performed that even without that sort of like extra boost that they were in these games, but I can't stop thinking that there were, there's missed opportunities here. And I really hope that the takeaway that, you know, Adrian Hanauer specifically about how to spend on this team is not like,
01:11:29
Speaker
Well, we were look how competitive we were even without spending money. We should keep doing this. I hope the takeaway is, man, if I just spent a little bit more money, we could be this much more competitive.
01:11:41
Speaker
We can get to this level or the gap is not so big that it's not even worth trying to bridge it. It's like, no, we can, we can make, we can make moves. We can let's up that budget. Let's look for a player who can be a difference maker And hopefully that's, that's the, I don't know how optimistic I am about that being the takeaway, but I would hope that's one of the takeaways.
01:12:04
Speaker
I mean, I do think if they like, they could, have I mean, they could have decided it was worth it in the winter and gone after, a you know, you have to really spend, but you can find a,
01:12:21
Speaker
genuine home of a new 22 signing out there. If you're willing to make a good offer, bring the right amount of money. If they had, you know, new 22 striker who has a profile closer to Jordan's than Mussovsky, like, yeah, maybe you have someone who's a real threat over the top. Cause I think, you know,
01:12:49
Speaker
to the point of Rusnak has not performed at the peak of his ability. i think some of that has been, you know, there were moments in both games where he plays a through ball that just is too fast or too far ahead of Musovsky, who...
01:13:08
Speaker
does his damnedest to get there, but he just doesn't have the physical tools to end up on the end of that ball with space to get a shot off or, you know, get on it before the keeper gets there or it goes out.
01:13:20
Speaker
You have a guy who can get there. ah few of those at the very least turn into dangerous moments. And it's, you know, similar to, well, what if the Sounders were healthy? If Jordan Morris hadn't picked up this injury, that's kept him out for the vast majority of this season. But like,
01:13:39
Speaker
Those things happened. Yeah, I really hope that the the takeaway from ownership is we are that close to being...
01:13:52
Speaker
and not just able to hang, but like really compete for results in this sort of competition. If we add that kind of talent, we can win the league. We can go CCC. We can win that tournament again. And we can be be back here with another shot at these teams. Like if that's your goal, then you have to you have to spend to get there.
01:14:18
Speaker
But I wasn't going to do it, but I'm going to do it ah because you guys are really hitting some really good points. And I'm just going to go out here and say, look, people have this huge misconception about the job that Jeremiah and I have done during podcasts and Sandra Hart in general about how, you know,
01:14:39
Speaker
the Sounders have built a good roster with what they have and that the proof is in the pudding. Look where they are. Look where they have been in terms of the league. Look what they've been able to perform in this Club World Cup. It is evident that there is a good starting core and enough of a good roster to be competitive.
01:15:01
Speaker
But Jeremiah and I have never said, and and I don't think anybody is under a heart that this team could not get any better. If you were not to inject more money and bring in players of a higher caliber, because that would be wrong.
01:15:15
Speaker
Everything that we have talked about the way this was built, bringing in Ferreira, keeping Albert Rusnak, and ah Jordan Morris DP. All of these things have one thing in common. And it is that the Sounders ownership was never going to move on from these players and go spend twice or three times the amount for these players in order to bring that sort of talent. You're not going to tell Alvaro is like, Hey man,
01:15:42
Speaker
Pack your bags. We're not going to give you three. When, if I'm going to replace you, I'm going to have to spend 10 plus salary to bring in a guy that's going to do what you did last season. Right? So that that is the reality of it. that The misconception is not that we are content with what it is, is that we appreciate the job that was done to, build a roster that could certainly be better, but we are not living in La La Land and we're not playing in the realm of May Believe like so many of these other podcasts and people and analysts that talk about, oh, well, why don't we out there and get Holland or Lucho Diaz, like come back to reality and just realize that that's never going to happen or even be below that.
01:16:20
Speaker
The Sounders were looking at Igor De Jesus at one point. They talked about Igor De Jesus. They wanted him in. He's going to 904 for 20 million. Do you really think the Sounders would spent 20 million dollars on Igor De Jesus? I would love to.
01:16:35
Speaker
I do that on FIFA in my PS5. Hell yeah. I'll bring that guy in all day, every day. But the reality is that that's not what's happening. Something happened with Kevin Denke, right? I mean, the Sounders were following him. They wanted him.
01:16:45
Speaker
He went for a whole bunch of money to Cincinnati. In this transfer window, I'm going to go ahead and tell you guys, and this I haven't told this to anybody, the Sounders have made multiple offers to players, the U22 that they wanted, and they have not been able to come out with anything.
01:17:03
Speaker
i I made some calls. there There was one that was never offered me. There was another one that was like, yeah, they just, they got outbid. So all this to say is that the the club wants to get better.
01:17:16
Speaker
The club is knows and understands the holes that they have in in in in up top precisely, but they just have, they don't have the budget to compete in today's day and age.
01:17:27
Speaker
And to kind of conclude the whole thing, because you guys mentioned this, We've said it from the very beginning. This team doesn't have a guy that's going to take over a game.
01:17:40
Speaker
that that A guy that for sure you know what's going to turn it on. The Nikos, the Rauls, the Dempsey's, the Algofemi Martins. That guy that you knew that it didn't matter what... He's going to turn it on. i mean, it's not about when, it's just maybe right now.
01:17:54
Speaker
but the The Sounders just don't have that. player They have a lot of really good players, but they don't have that X factor that's going to take over a game. And that's something that is going to be missing moving forward if the Sounders continue to not spend.
01:18:07
Speaker
Because in today's day and age, and me and Jeremiah talked about this off camera, if you want to go get a Nico that you paid 10 for 10 years ago, six years ago, eight years ago, you're going to pay 20 if you want that.
01:18:20
Speaker
For that kind of player, that sort of trajectory, that sort of proven commodity, you're going to have to go and pay. And that's why you go look for Pedro at $7 million to try to see if you can get something out of a player that has all these qualities and you're hoping that it comes up.
01:18:35
Speaker
But you really... going and buying your players on the cheap side to hope that they have great potential. And sometimes that works, but a lot of times it doesn't. If you want sure talent, you got to spend.
01:18:49
Speaker
And I just don't see this team doing it. Yeah, right now i I certainly... Do you not mean to suggest that it's like easy for them to go out and buy guy who's going to fit as a U-22 with all of the um various restrictions? And I don't think that that's what you thought.
01:19:07
Speaker
But I know, you know, occasionally I will write these... pieces for Sounder at heart that are like the Sounders are presumably looking for this type of player. Here are guys that could possibly fit that. And every time someone is in the comments going, well, why are you putting these restrictions on what type of player or how much they're going to spend? And I, you know,
01:19:30
Speaker
I don't know if you do this, Nico, but anytime I'm like looking at players and I come across a guy who I really like, the Sounders don't sign him, but I keep paying attention to him. And but time and time again, a guy who, you know, you're, I'm doing my best guesswork based on like,
01:19:46
Speaker
Rumors that are out there transfer marks, valuations and stuff. And guys who are in this like late teens early twenties age range, they might be listed as, Oh, this is a $3 million dollar player.
01:20:02
Speaker
Great. Why don't the Sounders get him? Because a team that's in the Europa league or champions league places in one of the big five leagues is going to come and drop 10 million on that player with the promise of you're going to come and maybe you're not a starter right away, but you're going play champions league. You're going to play Europa league. You're going work your way into your national team. The, it is so much harder to sign these guys than I think most people realize, unless they are spending a lot of time looking at it because, you know, it used to, I was listening to podcast,
01:20:40
Speaker
podcast focused on European football earlier today and they were talking about the shift in like the European market that it used to be that young South American players would kind of come through Portugal a lot of the time that Portuguese teams would come and Porto and Benfica and sporting are swooping up Argentine and Brazilian and Colombian talent. And that's how, you know, Luis Diaz gets to Liverpool by going through Portugal to get there. Like, and now that's just not the way it, I mean, it goes that way sometimes, but Man City and Real Madrid and all of these major teams are doing their shopping directly from Argentina and Brazil and Uruguay. Like,
01:21:29
Speaker
the middleman is getting cut out. And because those teams are shopping and they have the money to just say, sure, we'll drop $45 on a teenager from, or $45 million dollars on a teen from River Plate. Like Saunders aren't ever competing with that.
01:21:50
Speaker
You keep going down and down and, you're getting into much less proven, much lower ceiling, much lower floor players that fit into the range of, okay, maybe we can spend 3 million and maybe fit their salary cap hit into the confines for a U22 player. Like it's so much that you have to manage and that player probably still is fielding offers from Europe.
01:22:24
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's going to be, this is going to be an interesting, summer transfer window in part because of this, but and not in part because I think there's been a light sort of shined on the Sounders here. And I think, you know, again, maybe this is me being hopelessly optimistic. And maybe that's the problem is that we are too optimistic about what might happen.
01:22:46
Speaker
But I do think there's there is some reason to hope that this has maybe opened some eyes about like Let's get back to this thing.
01:22:57
Speaker
Let's let's, you know, like we, and I think there's, they have like, there has to be a knowledge that part of why the Sounders won champions league. Part of the reason they're in this tournament is because when they had the opportunity to spend five years ago, they were six years ago, seven years ago, they did, they they went out and they bought Nico Lidero. They went out and they bought the league at Mechies golden boot winner.
01:23:20
Speaker
And that's, and it's players like that, that got them into this position and they probably need players like that. If they're to get back to this position, like the Sounders are a good team. Like this team could win MLS cup. They, I don't see any reason that that that couldn't happen.
01:23:38
Speaker
but they need breaks to go their way. And I, and I think that are going to have a hard time competing. You know, we saw it this year. They got smashed by Cruz Azul who went on obviously to win champions league, but that shows the gap between where the sounders are right now and where they would need to be to get to this place again. And, and the way you get the way you bridge that gap, I primarily is by,
01:24:00
Speaker
finding top end talent. And the only way you're going to find top end talent is to spend money. ah So hopefully that is a message that is received. Hopefully that changes some calculations about how the sounders are going to go about spending money. And right now the the best way they can spend is on that U22 spot.
01:24:18
Speaker
I do think that there's probably a ceiling that you want to place on that. You don't want to, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to go out and spend eight, 10 million on a player who is making like less than a million dollars.
01:24:29
Speaker
That's just not necessarily like the right kind of investment, but why not go spend three to 5 million and find a you know, a potential contributor, even if it's not this year, but someone who has a high upside.
01:24:39
Speaker
So um don't We'll see. We'll see how that goes, but um anything else that you guys want to close out with before we, we get out of here? ah Well, in the sense of everything that we just said, I almost feel silly bringing this up because the Sounders are not looking at a big player. We kind of teased, or I was looking into a specific young 20-year-old forward from Colombia that thought maybe could be a possibility for
Youth Prospects and Recruitment Challenges
01:25:09
Speaker
the Sounders. But then i did preface it by saying, I don't know if it's at the common defiance player because he doesn't really have the...
01:25:17
Speaker
trajectory to be a sounders player silly right now. And ah apparently he is here. ah His name is Carlos Gutierrez. He's a forward ah coming out of the BTM Nationale, kind of the but the the not first division ah division of of Nationale. He's had some ah European spells. He is an explosive, ah good on the air, good shot, um well-regarded.
01:25:46
Speaker
in senses of a youth player, of course, as a prospect, ah that could potentially be an interesting signing for Tacoma Defiance. So he is in town. I have seen him a couple of times at Starfire.
01:25:58
Speaker
I'm pretty sure it's not about the Bonaparte game. ah So just something to look at. Not what you guys want to hear, for sure. um And if this makes anything better, the Sanders had been looking at – um a Serie A, Italian league ah forward, that they were unable to also cash in on. So the team is trying.
01:26:19
Speaker
i just, ah I'm hoping that they can do it in the summer window, but I'm starting to get very... nervous that what Jeremiah just say they're looking for a guy that's going to come in and perform.
01:26:33
Speaker
It's going to come in be a difference maker. But if you don't have the budget to get that sort of player, then i don't know what you do. Do you just bring somebody that you're settling for? Do you not bring anybody and hear it from everybody?
01:26:46
Speaker
i don't know. I just, I'm starting to get a little apprehensive on whether or not they're going to be able to do it. I would bet that they do, but I'm starting to, my my confidence level has definitely dropped.
01:27:01
Speaker
Love to hear that, right? Yeah. You love to hear that right up there. Everything we just said. Yeah. Yeah. And again, this it this is just for people that, you know, usually you go after Craig Weibel and you're like, why aren't we scouting the same way? Look, that not none of that has changed. that The scouting is the same. Sean Hurtson's a brilliant beast when he comes to his job. and And Craig has a tough job because he's going out there sitting on the table with his, you know, he's not a tie guy. So I'm guessing he has a hoodie like mine and he's just sitting there trying to, you know, negotiate and,
01:27:34
Speaker
You know, everybody's got portfolios and he has his wallet. You know what I mean? i don't know. It's a difficult job when it comes to global soccer. Like, you you you Tim, you you put it perfectly. When it comes to how everything's shifting, just you got to get out there and and be able to spend some money.
01:27:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's ah on as we tend to do on this show, we let the end on high positive notes.
Conclusion and Acknowledgments
01:27:59
Speaker
Yeah. yeah
01:28:02
Speaker
ah Tim, thanks for joining us. You can, of course, read Tim on Sounder at Heart. Of course, Nico is a regular feature on this show. We are going to hopefully be back. I think the plan is next week. We're going to be back into more of our regular cadence of programming.
01:28:17
Speaker
But Nico, thank you again for doing this. You can, of course, follow him on Pulse of Sports. You can see him on Lobbing Scorchers. Apparently, you can see him on Q13 semi-regularly these days.
01:28:29
Speaker
And of course you can follow him on, on a blue sky, El Rolo NW. Tim is Tim. What is your, your blue sky? i think it's Tim Ostland Foss.
01:28:40
Speaker
It's a hard one to search for. I got to admit to you. That's a, yeah, that's on me. um Tim O S T L U N D F O S S no hyphens or dashes or anything in there. Yeah.
01:28:58
Speaker
But yeah, I'm around. People are finding me, whether that's a good choice on their part or not. I love Tim. Tim's always on point, man. I enjoy your work for sure, Tim.
01:29:11
Speaker
Appreciate that. Well, on that note, we should probably get out of here. Thank you to, of course, our sponsor. That's Marnie O'Shann Homes, if you had forgotten about that. So go check out check her out if you need to buy a house.
01:29:25
Speaker
um I can highly recommend that. And with that said, I'm Jeremiah O'Shann, signing off for Tim Foss, Nico Moreno, and of course, our producer, Lickett. This is Nos Adietes, part of the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, and we'll catch you next time.
01:30:06
Speaker
I expect the LAFC who is motivated ah to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that that they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really ruin the party.
01:30:22
Speaker
i feel a lot better than