Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Season 2 of the Women of Kriya Yoga Living in Joy podcast, a gathering place for women walking the spiritual path. These conversations are an offering from the Women's Sangha and Ministry of Kriya Yoga International in the lineage of Paramahamsa Pragyananandaji and Paramahamsa Hariharanandaji.
Speaker: Our host is Mary Dale Ma, a devoted disciple, seasoned yoga teacher, mentor for more than 40 years, and founder of the Param Yoga Healing Arts Center in California. Welcome beautiful souls. Welcome, welcome to Living in Joy.
Speaker: I'm so grateful you've chosen to join us today as we once again gather in sacred friendship, reflection, and love through the voices of women walking the path of Kriya Yoga. Today we're invited into a beautiful conversation about identity, belonging, creativity, and service.
Speaker: and the quiet ways that divine grace leads each of us home. Before we begin, i'd appreciate it if we could all just arrive quietly into this space together.
Speaker: if it feels comfortable, go ahead and soften your gaze, perhaps close your eyes, and join me in a nice, long, deep breath.
Speaker: exhaling with hope again, inhale
Speaker: and exhale.
Speaker: As you gently allow your body to soften your mind to quiet
Speaker: and your heart to open.
Speaker: Father, Mother, Beloved Lord, Sri Gurudev Paramahansa Hariharananda, Beloved Guruji Paramahansa Prajnanananda, and our Paramguru Paramahansa Yogananda, along with all the radiant masters of the Kriya lineage, we bow in gratitude for this sacred gathering May this conversation unfold in truth, humility, wisdom, and love.
Speaker: May every word spoken today remind us that each soul is walking a sacred journey uniquely guided by divine grace.
Speaker: May we listen with open hearts. May we see one another with compassion. May we remember that every sincere seeker is lovingly being led home.
Speaker: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Father, Mother, God. Shantahi, Shantahi, Om Shantahi, Amen.
Speaker: Oh, it's wonderful, wonderful, wonderful to be together once again. And to reflect that there are moments in life when we begin to recognize that nothing's been accidental.
Speaker: The experience that once seemed disconnected when we came across new people on our path, when we received gifts, when we received challenges,
Speaker: All of this began to reveal a much deeper pattern for each and every one of us. And it's as though Divine Mother was quietly weaving a tapestry all along that was invisible to us, to our eyes, to our hearts, and yet it was happening.
Speaker: Sometimes we only recognize the beauty of that design when we pause long enough to look back. Today's guest is and you might recognize her because she's kind of famous in her own way, has lived a rich life with creativity, service, and storytelling.
Speaker: As an accomplished actor, writer, filmmaker, and artist, she has helped to bring meaningful stories to life. Yet beneath all of those beautiful expressions is something even different deeper.
Speaker: It's a deep, sincere heart of a seeker. And more recently, she discovered the sacred path of Kriya Yoga. And like so many of us, found that the deepest journey is not outward, but inward.
Speaker: So today, we have the joy of exploring that unfolding together. Please let me welcome and introduce to Des Ba. Hello, hello, hello, Ma. Welcome to you.
Speaker: Yate. We're so happy to have you today. It's a true blessing and I'm so grateful that you chose to have this conversation. And I'd like to start, if you don't mind, with your name.
Speaker: It is so unique and I dare say unusual. Please tell us, is this your birth name or was it bestowed upon you? And if so, by whom? And what does it mean?
Speaker: Um, yeah, shit a deba my name is Desva. Um, uh, it's a name that was given to me by a Navajo elder. It's Navajo. Um, it means according to my elder, it means she's going on a raid, like going to war. Um, the bar part of most of the women's names means so has something to do with war of some sort. Um, just like a warrior name. And um I adopted it as my performer name as an actor um a few years ago, mainly prior, primarily just as a performer.
Speaker: um But the more people asked me, um you know, on a TV show that I the specific specific reason was for a specific TV show um because it's about Navajo people. And i had been struggling with my name for a really long time since I was 12. Um, and I just kind of felt a little like, don't want to like, a um, disingenuous in some ways of having this, even though it was a name that my parents gave me, just, it didn't fit me. It didn't fit like the, the genre of this, of this show. And so I decided to just adopt it as my performer. But when I told people about it and they're looking for my actual legal name, they're like, we we know you were in there, but we didn't see your name. And i was like, well, because I changed it for the show.
Speaker: um And so when I told him what it meant and that my elder had given it to me when I was three, oh they were like, can I just call you that instead? And I said, sure, that's fine. So initially it kind of was like a nickname. It was a performer name that turned into a nickname, which then became how I identify myself, because it was like as if I had grown into this person. um At three years old, it didn't really mean much to me. It was something else. It wasn't my name then. And then as I grew older and I realized, you know, stepping into this role as an actor in this particular TV show, it started kind of
Speaker: Being more meaningful. And yeah, so it was it was kind of like a mix of things. and And it kind of reminds me of just how people were called, you know, you were given a name.
Speaker: And then there is the name that you call yourself. And then especially in a lot of cultures, there's the name that only very few people know. And it's kind of like that identifier, it's like the secret name.
Speaker: um And it just, I guess it it's it's a part of like belonging in a lot of ways, not only to yourself, but amongst your community. Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you so much. That truly gives us the depth of the name itself and also how you've honored it and um feel more of yourself. I think that's just, that's very, very beautiful.
Speaker: And before we actually get going about your creative work, your spiritual practice, or where life has brought you to this day, i'd love to introduce the little girl who loved to perform at a very young age while growing up in beautiful New Mexico. What was it like for you? And who was that little girl before the world came to know the woman you are today?
Speaker: Yeah, that's an interesting question. um Only because I have been actually thinking about that lately. Like who, who was the kid that I was um that brought me here to this particular place?
Speaker: um I would say i was the youngest of three children and i was essentially kind of like by myself. My parents had us fairly far apart, loved to play outdoors. We lived out in a rural area where it was like, very sandy, very sand dunes. The part of New Mexico where I'm from is a part of ah a Rio Grande rift basin. So it was the shallow inland sea. So it was during the times of the dinosaurs in Jurassic era.
Speaker: And so all these sand dunes, um not very good roads to drive on. um So I'd go play out there with the juniper trees and the bugs and make little mud pu puddles. um Always outdoors a lot and love to imagine, had a huge imagination. I wanted to have like my own movie theater. I wanted to have my own market. I wanted to have my own post office.
Speaker: And I tried to like create things. So I'd take like an old box and I would cut it up and I would tape it up and put markers and, you know, make like a vending machine. um So I would say pretty by myself, but very imaginative and a little bit of a storyteller even then.
Speaker: But it took me decades to realize that part of that little girl in the future, because as you're growing up,
Speaker: especially in this place, very rural, there's only usually like one way out. And um it was what they call the Los Alamos National Laboratories. And so like the only pathway towards success was to be financially stable. And so there wasn't really like a lot of emphasis on art.
Speaker: There wasn't a lot of emphasis on like, follow your dreams, follow your heart. It was just like, what can sustain you? And what can, how can you survive? And it never really fit in, although I do love science.
Speaker: um And so I my older sibling chose marine biology, of all things, and became a professor in California. My middle sister um became a registered nurse and society kind of sort of sciencey.
Speaker: And I always try to figure out my place in the world, even when I was a young kid, because I was always like Scotty's little sister, Shannon's little sister. but I was never my own person.
Speaker: And I kind of rebelled against that and I really hated it. So I think I've always tried to figure out like, what could it be that's uniquely in, in mine.
Speaker: And after I had gotten my geology degree out in Massachusetts and come home with my kid or come back to New Mexico, i worked as a geologist, you know, the universe, I guess, found me and took,
Speaker: ah through my sister, um a pathway to this film industry and the storytelling in a show in a nutshell. I know you were asking about me being a little kid, but it I loved watching television. I would wake up and sneak out of, you know, going to bed and try to watch the late, late shows and things that they had on at late at night. And so I just love watching television. I loved seeing the little people that were trapped inside the box. And I wished that I could be them.
Speaker: I'd love that. And that is obviously part of your destiny because you truly had a passion for it. And the freedom that it takes for little kids just to create and be alone and have all this imaginary world is a very wonderful nurturing soil for someone like you to ultimately become a storyteller. So again, Divine Mother took care of you from the get go.
Speaker: that's That's wonderful. And i know you've shared that although you are Diné, part of the Navajo Nation, you didn't really grow up deeply immersed in many of your cultural traditions.
Speaker: How has your relationship with your heritage unfolded over the years? Has it become something you've continued discovering throughout your life? Yeah, it's so...
Speaker: I knew about being Navajo when I was like seven. I went to Montessori school and they don't believe in um participating in Halloween, at least mine did for sure. And so we had to choose countries that we were going to represent and we had to research them, find out their flag, clothing, food. it was a really good option. um And so the two that I researched because I was there for only two years, kindergarten first, One was Mexico, because my mom's Mexican, and the other was the Navajo Nation.
Speaker: That was a little bit trickier. um And trying to figure out, it it it confounded me to understand like, well, where is the Navajo Nation? It's within the country and it's within within the borders of three different states. But it is a sovereign nation. It is essentially kind of treated like its own country. um And so i my mom made me a traditional outfit. My mom so knows how to sew.
Speaker: And we worked on trying to create the flag. And so I knew about my culture, but I never really like fully lived into it. And it blew my mind that again, like there was this other nation within a nation that was essentially there prior to our own a United States formation. um That was there prior to anything that was prior there to Spanish colonization. it we had been there forever, but the formation of the nation itself, we call it den nekea the the Dene land, but the nation itself hadn't formed until after an um,
Speaker: There was you know oil reserves that were there and trying to like um basically extract resources from our land. And that was what what became the Navajo Nation Council, et But um there's a lot of different varied layers of it. So I knew who I was. And then I had my name, Desba, since I was three.
Speaker: And it was just kind of like, am I CIB? I had you know everything. I was enrolled member of, enrolled citizen of the nation. But then when i had come back um after leaving um the East Coast, um it was a stronger calling for me. I was afraid. I was afraid that I was going to be considered an outsider, and I was a little bit.
Speaker: But I remember going to um the one of the trainings that they have when you're you know you're a newbie employee, and we everybody introduced themselves you know, in Navajo, you introduce yourself with your four different clans for your two sides of your family, your mother, your father, and then both grandparents.
Speaker: And um I spoke up, I was the last, last person. And I said, I know my clans, but I can't say in Navajo.
Speaker: And the elder that was conducting the training said, will you return to us? And it sunk in that despite my feeling of not belonging, that nothing could erase who I was.
Speaker: And i needed to hear that because I was so worried that I didn't know the language. I didn't know the culture very well, but I knew who I was um as a person, as a human being.
Speaker: and So I started to try to learn more about the weaving, learned how to make moccasins, um learned some of the stories. I have a friend of mine who's a medicine man who tried very hard to get me to apprentice with him. I'm like, I'm not there at that stage of my life yet, but was very much trying to you know bring me into ceremonies, um the traditional Navajo ceremonies. And, um you know, just I was asking him questions. I took a ah Navajo language course at UNM Gallup there to learn how to introduce myself in my own language um and to learn how to read because Navajo is not a wasn't a written language until like the 50s or somewhere around there.
Speaker: Um, and it's very phonetic in some ways. So a lot of people who are fluent speaking may not know how to write and it's not, they may not be literate in the language because it's so fairly new.
Speaker: Um, but I'm glad we have that because then it helps people like myself, you know, even though I'm like Navajo as like a second language. Um, I can at least try to sound things out and and then it just takes, you know, perfecting your ear to understand how to make those sounds with your, with your voice. Um, so there was a diligence in me to learn, especially when I came back because I felt like it was my responsibility to do so. And because my dad didn't learn as well, he, I felt like there was a little bit of shame in him not knowing. So it it actually brought out in him, his own desire and fearlessness and trying to learn. And that felt made me feel really good that I could be like a bridge back into the culture and my own daughter um it wants to learn. And, you know, you, it's hard, it's hard. You can't learn it from Duolingo. You can't learn it from YouTube. You have to really have someone there to practice with you to to know how to say things correctly. um
Speaker: So there's like this deep desire, right? That's placed in you um to want to reach out. And then also like somewhat of a limitation because I don't have that like right off hand.
Speaker: um But it doesn't negate who I am in terms of, it's not a shame that I have of not knowing. um It's just a circumstance that I'm trying to rebuild slowly. And I'm trying to do so authentically. um People used to try to hold it over my head that i didn't know how to speak or, you know, that I didn't grow up on the rest. And I'm like, that just was not how the cards landed for me. And I'm okay with that. And um I mean, it it I've learned so much even from like even working with Kriyo Yoga understandings that I'm, it's even new to me,
Speaker: but trying to have the heart and desire to want to learn, I think is like the biggest thing for me rather than like having perfect pronunciation.
Speaker: um I hear, i hear Navajo and it, and I, and i almost like, I don't hear it here. I hear it here in my heart.
Speaker: Um, um, And it may I may not know what's being said specifically, but I feel like there's there really is a visceral understanding of what's being spoken.
Speaker: um and I don't want say that's good enough for me, but for right now, I'm i'm okay with it. I'm at peace with it. Oh, that's very beautiful story. Thank you so much for sharing. And I can imagine that many of the women who are listening along with us to today understand in their heart what it feels like to slowly discover pieces of ourselves that may have been quietly waiting all along. And that's truly what it sounds like for you that, again, um going home.
Speaker: um it's It's wonderful. And as you were speaking, it just resonated so much with me, the journey of Sanskrit, which is the same thing as Kriyavans who were not born in the culture, growing up, memorizing chants and scripture, we're really kind of at a loss. And you cannot listen to it on Duolingo. it this So there are many of us that just have to love ourselves the best we can and move forward. So I really honor you and appreciate your desire. That's that's a very beautiful thing.
Speaker: Now, as I was preparing for our conversation today, one thought kept returning to me over and over about you. Sometimes, long before we consciously begin a spiritual journey, our soul is already quietly being prepared.
Speaker: Looking back in your life, childhood, teen years, young womanhood, were there moments um that you began to recognize as invitations from the divine, things that were kind of gently calling to you, moving in the wind and guiding you toward a deeper spiritual practice beyond your native heritage.
Speaker: perhaps experiences that helped shape the woman that you would ultimately become one day and you're still growing. Yeah. my I, my, my parents somehow, my parents somehow found Southern Baptist church in their journey.
Speaker: um I have always wondered, I'm like, how, cause my mom's grew up Catholic. Yeah. Um, and, uh, she told me that her father, you know, made sure that they got ah confirmed and went to, and don't think they even went to catechism, but she he made sure that they got confirmed and went to Holy communion just in case.
Speaker: Um, but he himself didn't believe that he needed anybody to intercede between him and God. And I thought that was very profound. Um, and then,
Speaker: um So she didn't really grow up Catholic, Catholic. And then she met my dad and my dad again, well, he was adopted by a white family. And so he was raised that way. um i think that the story is that my, his, his adopted mother, um my grandma was an assemblies of God missionary, i think at the Navajo reservation.
Speaker: So he was raised, you know, knowing about God. And I don't want to say he was like raised in the church. But i think then my mom said that it was through his mother, my grandmother, ah his her mother-in-law, that she found the idea of Jesus Christ being her Lord and Savior.
Speaker: And it was through that connection that then my parents, I think, were trying to find a church nearby where we they where they live now. Um, and I think that the only one that they found that met felt right for them was the Southern Baptist church.
Speaker: Um, cause I guess that just felt right to them. So I grew up in that church. I was there since, well, my mom was pregnant. Um, so I grew up in there, went to but vacation Bible school. So I've been learning and reading the Bible,
Speaker: my whole life. I have never actually read through the whole Bible Bible my whole life. I mean, at any point in my life, but I've read enough scriptures to know the things that I, you know, really resonated with me.
Speaker: Um, but looking back, cause there was always definitely like this rebelliousness of like, this can't, how can, how can all of this stuff mean anything?
Speaker: Um, and you know, one of the passages, of course, like, you know, and it was always a struggle between being like a good girl and like, you know, being the brimstone and fire of like being like a bad kid or a bad person. And then I'm going to go to hell. um And so there's a lot of struggle with that.
Speaker: And i just, you know, I definitely remember I was like eight years old when i accepted Christ into my life. And it was just such a profound, like it was, it, I,
Speaker: i I don't even know how to describe it, but I know I was crying. I told my mom, like, I think, I think this is, this is it. Like, you know, i I'm feeling like this is the Holy spirit coming in onto me and, you know, telling me that this is my path.
Speaker: And so then I got baptized, um, a little while later. And, but, you know, teenage years falling away from the church. And then you realize that the church isn't always the church and that there was issues and the people. And um there was a falling out with my family. is just, you know, people wanting to do things that didn't seem necessarily all that healthy. um And so it really made my mom super depressed. I was like, how can people who claim to be godly be treating my mom like this?
Speaker: Um, so we, we, we essentially kind of diverged and moved away from that went to a missionary church that was essentially for native Americans. The Indian church is what they called it. Um, so we started going there because they would meet outside.
Speaker: They would meet outside under the trees. We met near river and it felt right. It felt good. And so my parents stayed there for a really, really long time. And then again, the same old kinds of like, you know, dissonance, like We're their ugly heads. And so, so for a really long time, you know, just gave up reading the Bible. It gave up, you know, thinking that any of that was real, gave up thinking that like, you know, I don't believe in this very much anymore. I'd still pray and I would still, you know, but I was questioning a lot.
Speaker: And so fast forward to several years, um, my partner Shiloh, who's also Kriyavon, um, just said, hey, I've been looking into doing some meditation again.
Speaker: i'm going to go to this initiation. um i'd love for you to join me if it seems like this is a good fit for you. and I'm like, where did this come from?
Speaker: I was like, because sometimes he just has like these like out of, they seem completely out of nowhere. i'm going to take a sip of my water.
Speaker: This kind of come out of nowhere like, okay, I guess this is what we're doing. But I did look into it and I was a little skeptical. I will say I was skeptical. i'm like, I've never heard of this.
Speaker: And I've, you know, actually, honestly, growing up, um my parents, although they're very open, um very open people for being Southern Baptists, um my brother my brother is actually transgendered. um and was gay first initially. So that whole thing, like we've just always been very open, very accepting, very loving, unconditional love to the point of heart heartache, and heartbreak. um But when I started talking to them about chakras, cause I'm a massage therapist, you know, that was like, you know, we we weren't sure about Hare Krishnas. We were kind of like, it was everything that wasn't Christian, like labeled was kind of off limits.
Speaker: And so that was another struggle for me. But again, my parents are very open. um We started learning more about yoga, started learning about more chakras and things like that as I was learning more about my massage therapy and energy work. I'm an energy worker as well. um But anyway, so I wasn't sure about this. This seemed a little bit Whew, that was, this was going to be like a deep dive. So I, I researched it and as much as I could, cause actually there, to me, there wasn't, I didn't know as much as I know now about what's out there in the internet. And you really couldn't because you're not supposed to know there's certain things, but anyways.
Speaker: Um, but one thing that somebody said on some kind of like review board was, you know, the guru will know what you need and It's up to you to like trust that or something.
Speaker: And I had to sit with that for a little bit. Cause like, how am I supposed to trust a guru to know what I need? Who doesn't even know me?
Speaker: And I thought about it and then I was just like, huh? My friend was like, oh, this sounds like it's so exciting. You should totally do this. And um i was like, I thought about it, but then I thought about it from the the perspective of me being an expert in my field as a massage therapist, that I was essentially bestowed or given a certain gift with my hands and my knowledge and my wisdom to work with people and their bodies.
Speaker: in addition to skills and learning and teaching that I've, you know, mastered over several, you know, years. And oftentimes when someone comes to me, they have like, there's this vulnerability and there's this humility that comes with them wanting me to help them and facilitate.
Speaker: And if they're willing to listen to, you know, we're working in concert together with the listening and me listening, then, I'm hoping that they would be willing to trust me as well to say, maybe this is what needs to be done.
Speaker: And then when I landed on that and I was like, okay, okay, um let's do this. And so I signed up for the initiation and i wanna say I was blown away, but even blown away is not even like the right words to say.
Speaker: i was, Deeply, profoundly. um
Speaker: It's what I had needed my whole life. Growing up. That i felt like was missing.
Speaker: And all of the scripture verses and everything that I had learned while I was going to church. To be a good Christian.
Speaker: kind of washed over. And there really was like renewal. And it really was like this spiritual baptism that was even more so than what I had experienced as a child.
Speaker: And I became like so in love with that that I had returned home. And and it was through and my partner. um And you know i and in so many ways, in so many different layers of my life and in who I am this man, Shiloh, had essentially returned me to myself in a lot of different ways.
Speaker: ah
Speaker: you know not only to my culture, we had gone to Mexico for my birthday or to things to Texas. And I had a profound moment on the border between Texas and Mexico, right on the Rio Grande, Rio Bravo, real Bravo, yeah, um border.
Speaker: And then this time again was just like, you know, the listening and that, you know, God sends people to retrieve us.
Speaker: And like the idea of the shepherd going out to find the lost sheep, um, essentially, but we can have all of those types of moments that we read about in the Bible or, you know, I'm, I'm learning about the Bhagavad Gita and the, um,
Speaker: and all those, cause I'm, it's completely foreign to me still. Um, but I find a lot of, uh, parallels in all of these different scriptures. And then also with the culture of the Navajo people.
Speaker: Um, and so finding out about who I am, right. Um, is, is, is all of it's like happening at the same time.
Speaker: You know, a lot of times people talk about wanting to, ah they have like this love and this romance with native American culture and indigenous and ancestral wisdom. But my thing lately, especially because I've realized that there's so many parallels with, um,
Speaker: ah the Bhagavad Gita, Kriya knowledge, Navajo cultural knowledge, even the parables and what you find in the Bible. And now with Odyssey, the Greek mystics, everybody has essentially like the same message.
Speaker: of like detachment, you know love, honoring, discipline. um and I see just how beautifully orchestrated it is in the universe through these different cultures and their stories.
Speaker: If we would only just listen, but that's why it's there for thousands of years later for us to rediscover again and again and again.
Speaker: um and we're always in that process of learning Um, and I'm just so grateful for those people. Um, and you know, the teachings in a new way, in a new light, and then understanding, um no matter which way you go to anyone's ancestral wisdom, we all carry that ancestral wisdom within us.
Speaker: Um, we carry our ancestors with us as well. um it's it's in our DNA. It's in who we are as human beings. It's a part of our evolution from being of this land that because we are a part of this. We're a part of Mother Earth. We're a part of Mother Nature. and all of that wisdom is in there. So when we are thinking about exploring at going inside and clearing out,
Speaker: so that we can actually have capacity to listen to that. Um, you know, it's like, we can find, i don't want to say the answers in all of these different texts, but you know, I, I do remember it was that Jesus says, you know, for those who have ears to hear and those who have eyes to see.
Speaker: um and, um, I would think I was just reading that actually in the 10 commandments of yoga about it. have, um, You know, the the disciples are asking, you know, like, why are you always talking in parables? Why are we talking in stories? Because it's easy to remember those types of things sometimes.
Speaker: It's easy to remember the stories. And that to me is fundamentally part of the reason why I kind of came back to storytelling. And now it's my job to kind of figure out how am I going to move from this to desire in my heart to be a storyteller or to be a good listener, essentially,
Speaker: to being a part of that and and also utilizing my ego just enough that I am not fearful that I i shouldn't have a place, that I i become a part of.
Speaker: And finding that balance of being a part of, being a vessel, being in service of the story to continue that pathway for more people so that I can possibly
Speaker: be like Shiloh has been for me to kind of guide me back to myself? How can I be like that for other people? um Because it takes us, it takes each individual person in the on this planet to to to guide one person, possibly. We don't have to guide millions.
Speaker: Just, I feel like maybe just one, one other person. Beautiful. Well, you know, excuse me, it's so wonderful to hear someone speak from the freshness of discovery.
Speaker: And Kriya truly is a discovery. And probably the thing that is most important for us as Kriyavans to recognize and hold in our heart always is the thread that through through every philosophy and religion since the beginning of time.
Speaker: And that's truth. And that God resides within all of us alive and well. And so we are very much the same rather than different. And Kriya emphasizes that, as I'm sure you know, with Yogananda, for instance, his beautiful gardens here in Pacific Palisades, every religion is represented there.
Speaker: because we don't want anyone to feel that Kriya is something special only for a few. Kriya is for everyone, because it's the direct path to God and to soul consciousness, as Hari Hara Nanda has taught us. So...
Speaker: You know, it's it's just so refreshing to hear you and to know how touched you've been sincerely by Guruji and all of our our masters because they're alive and and well with us.
Speaker: And sometimes the beginners remind all of us what first inspired our journey on the Kriya path. And it's just, it's hard to even it describe it.
Speaker: And I know that you also shared with me that just recently your parents spontaneously took a ni nation into Korea. Share with us how that came to pass and what it means to you.
Speaker: Yeah. Give me one second. We grab something real quick.
Speaker: um Yeah, my parents. of water. um Yeah, i um my parents recently got initiated, i want to say like maybe a month ago, the June 22nd, maybe not even that long ago. um Yeah, my parents did. I was i was pleasantly surprised. um My mom loves to read. she is She's a huge bookworm. She'll read books.
Speaker: She's read, I don't know how many religious texts. um I mean, if she had access to like the religious texts, I'm sure she would probably do that. um Neither of my parents graduated from um college. um They met in and the university and my mom got pregnant. My dad ended up having to um take care of them and um had to quit school and then got drafted into the Navy and then that was That was it. And then they they just never decided to kind of return back to going to school and finishing.
Speaker: But I have a feeling that if both of them had, um my dad probably would have been a photographer, writer, poet. I found that out later. um I know I got kind of sidetracked, but, and I know my mom um probably would have been a theologian. She could have even, i would think that she would have probably gotten even like a doctorate in, in religious studies. She's just, the house is just covered in all kinds of history, world history text texts and books and all kinds of other stuff.
Speaker: um So what I figured I would do is that anytime that I got a book at initiations or at intensives, I would find something that might have be in the Christian realm.
Speaker: And I kind of slipped it to my mom and I said, here, look, like this is, look, this is what um our guru says about, you know, um like the 10 commandments or about the Beatitudes. I think that's the last one that I got for her.
Speaker: I said, look, this is really interesting. I said, you can borrow it and I'll pick it up later. So I've lent her several books I myself haven't had a chance to read yet. And I've asked her, I said, did you read them? Did She's like, oh yeah. She's like, it was really good. was really fascinating.
Speaker: And every time that I had a chance to just kind of like tell them about my experience, um especially if she had questions, or especially when I'd come home after having a conversation with Shiloh about, you know, any one thing, we we always have philosophical conversations. um And i would tell her about them or I'd tell my dad about them or like some kind of new found, new epiphany that I had, or especially like this one ah recently about how um I saw parallels with ah Navajo culture
Speaker: Um, and the ceremonies that happened there, even the ceremony, I don't know what it's called, but the, the ceremony where you light, I know it probably reminds me like screaming at the screen saying, Oh, it's this ceremony, but it's the one where you do the, the jingling of the bell and you have the light and that one, the art RT.
Speaker: Yeah, that one. I'm like, there's actually something similar in Navajo ceremony. Um, And I'm just like, wow, like this is so cool. Like just fascinated with this. And so I would tell them, and then I did say that, you know, we're having our initiation soon. I said, can you, as said, I said, would you guys mind just like at least going to the, um to the.
Speaker: Public talk. The public talk. Yeah. At least can you go to that? I'm like, you guys don't have to get initiated, but at least just if you have any questions, this is where you would ask them.
Speaker: Like if you have any like I said, ah feel free to ask any and everything. I said, trust us. We, trust me we ask all kinds of questions whenever, you know, the guru says it's time to ask a question and stuff. It's like, he'll answer as many or as whichever, however many questions he possibly can.
Speaker: um And it's, you know, I love the openness of, of Korea in that way to see if there's no end to whatever questions that you have, you can ask and free. feel okay with doing that.
Speaker: And so they, they went, um, and, and they really, really liked it. And, um, they really liked our acharya.
Speaker: And, you know, it's, so I think they, after we had talked about it, when I came home after that day, um, I said, just, I said, just let me know. Let me know if you, what what you feel like, you know? and they said, well, we'll let you know. And I said, okay, my parents live an hour away from where we have any initiation.
Speaker: And, um, I said, well, I'll just, I said, I'll just, just let me know by, you know, ah seven o'clock in the morning or whatever, you're if you're thinking about it. I said, just let me know. Um, so I could let, you know, our center leader, Andrea know.
Speaker: And so, Sure enough, they said, we're, we're out we're on the road. i was like, Oh my gosh. was like, okay. So I had to like quickly help and, you know, facilitate, you know, everything, um, had to make sure I got over there and made sure that they knew where they were going and the directions and everything. It was a completely last minute decision, I think on their part, but I am, I'm grateful because, um,
Speaker: You know, the and my mom is going to be 80 this year. My dad going to be 79. Great. So, I mean, just I this is what I love about my parents so much is that they are they they are from what people like to say, the boomer range.
Speaker: But they are just so open to, like, experiencing new things. Maybe not their Italian food. They will order the same thing every time they go to an Italian restaurant.
Speaker: But when it comes to this, like to me, these types of things, like, you know, they're like, okay. And it has become such a fertile learning ground between my 13 year old and my, my parents who are, you know, on their way to being octogenarians and myself and just this wonderful dynamic of the young teaching the older people. And me also in the middle becoming this elder myself. And like, what are the things that we, you know, remember and get reborn again and again with a renewing of our mind, if we're willing to at any point in time.
Speaker: um And so it's just a matter of like encouraging. it encourages me Um, also to to, like the kind of person that I want to be when I grow up.
Speaker: Um, and just to know the places where my own, my maternal grandmother was at her age. And my mom is now surpassing that and realizing, you know, yeah, you can be as young as you want to be as your body is, you know, getting older. um it really is just a matter of like your mental thoughts and like where you want to be and where you want to land at that point. And yeah, my parents did inspire me in that way. I'm like, wow.
Speaker: I love that. And of course, Kriya is based on meditation and Guruji will tell us meditate more, meditate more, meditate more. There's just something you can't read about meditation because it's it's a living entity. And the more we practice, the deeper we go into it. How has your daily Kriya practice begun to influence the way you move through ordinary life? Has it changed the way you experience relationships, work, or even yourself?
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, I want to say that I'm still working on the discipline. I will be honest. um But I would say like, you know, if i if I don't get the full hour, and I'm talking like the full hour, like the full cycle, If I can't get that in every day, then at least it's like some form of meditation throughout, whether it's like a bow or um just by trying to be consciously aware of my breathing um and whether it's at a stoplight, especially, or you know, someone's trying to cut me off. I've actually found that it has reminded me um
Speaker: to be in the small things that I do, the small things that happen. Um, but especially, you know, like it, it's, it's been a bit much with my 13 year old lately, i will say. um and then also my ex-husband it is moving from three hours away, living on the reservation.
Speaker: um He's not a non-native, but he was living out there near where I used to live and is now moving to the city that we're both in, in Santa Fe. And so trying to wrangle this, like, I don't want to use the term broken family, but like, you know, we were separated in a ways and we were trying to do the best. And then over the course of like the last two years or so that I've been doing the meditation has really helped in the way I'm interacting with him in being more patient, trying to remind myself to be more kind because our relationship was not good at all, like, which is the reason why we separated. um And then also to my relationship with Shiloh, it's just like has leaps and bounds.
Speaker: created a new couple them between us two, but especially with my kid, um, not falling into old patterns and programs that I had had growing up um and, you know, really allowing me to be more patient with myself so that I could be more patient with others.
Speaker: Um, and really understanding more what it means to be grounded. You know, that's one of the quiet miracles of our spiritual practice.
Speaker: The outer world may look exactly the same, yet everything begins to feel different from within. It's, you know, using the word magical might be a little overkill to some of the listeners, but believe me, I feel like it is true magic.
Speaker: It's, and like i said, you know, i I am being honest with like, you know, the, um i wasn't as super, just I'm more disciplined now after a couple of years, I was not as disciplined before.
Speaker: um i found, I felt profound effects immediately after an initiation. Then we went like to another initiation, I think a month later, which was really helpful because it was nearby. and I think we went to like two other initiations in the country, possibly.
Speaker: um And then and including the intensives and plus the retreats. um There was one in Washington and the most recent one in Denver. um But each time, you know, there's something, this last time was quieter. The first time when I went to the one in Washington last year was, that one was, it really took, um I don't wanna, it's hard to explain these things, but it was like it was like a so a switch had turned on, like a light had turned on.
Speaker: And then this last time, it was a little, it was softer, it was quieter. And that's when I started kind of realizing that i'm I'm meditating on the power of the small, the power of like the seed, the power of the blueprint of the seed to have. And I think even Guruji mentioned this in this last retreat too. um But I always go back to, you know, the faith of a mustard seed that my mom, you know, reminds me of here and there. And it was just like, within that small, tiny seed is the blueprint for thousands and, you know, thousands of more seeds. And we're constantly trying to be overwhelmed by bigness and hugeness and like, profound moments of like earth shaking, you know, ground quaking kinds of moments. And, you know, that the peaks of our life and we're like always looking for like that dopamine hit of like, oh, I need to have this profound moment. And then I'm actually kind of like, okay waiting for the profoundness. And it's just like, but just wait and listen to the point where like,
Speaker: the beauty of the, of the sky and the sunsets and the clouds and that moment of stillness and that moment, that split second moment where instead of choosing the thing that you normally would have, it doesn't matter anymore.
Speaker: Where it's choosing to be angry about something. And it's like that split second where it's all of a sudden you have a moment to breathe and it doesn't need to happen.
Speaker: I'm like thinking more about those moments than like, and and if you, and if you're looking for something else, then you miss those moments. And so I'm trying to be more quiet to listen to that. So those subtle shifts, like what I was telling someone else is like, you go in into someone's home and you can't quite tell what they did, but you realize that something's different. And maybe it's like the temperature of their lights. They switched out the led lights for, you know, that harsh blue for like the, not the, the warm light.
Speaker: And you're like, okay, this is what's different. Nothing else changed, but just that small little thing is such a profound shift. And like the way you feel about something is it really is huge.
Speaker: Um, And so I'm trying to just remind myself of those things. And it's it's small by small. And i was watching a ah ah documentary with Shiloh the other night about, um you know, since I'm a geologist as well, is just like you could be on one side of a rock that's flipped over and it's like 3.9 billion years you're old and your other foot can be on the other side of the rock. And it does it doesn't seem like it's the different rock.
Speaker: And it's like 3.7 billion years old. So there's like 200 million years between that. And you're just standing on it. But it took those rocks that long just to be as profound and magical and mystical and wonderful and enormous.
Speaker: And taking those types of things for granted, those profound shifts and realizing that even on our lives is the same way that on one side,
Speaker: we were this old older version of ourself. And on this other side, we're like this newer version of ourselves. But the time and the profoundness that it took to get us there, like don't take it for granted that those small accretions of those small moments, you know we're creating that that new version of ourself from from ah from our past.
Speaker: And um yeah, that's the thing I love about the newfound practice of Kriya Yoga and meditation is just, it really just like, wow, it's like such a breath of fresh air every single day, every single moment.
Speaker: Well, i agree. And I also in my own life have found that it absolutely confirms what Lao Tzu wrote in the Tao Te Ching that you can't tell the dancer from the the dance or the poet from the poem.
Speaker: Because once you really understand Kriya, you become a yogi, you don't practice yoga, you don't practice meditation. Your breath is your practice 24 seven.
Speaker: And I'm sure now that you've been practicing for two years, and are still new upon the path, um don't you recognize that your life is becoming more of a meditation and that you're connecting to something even greater that you've not been aware of all of this time, meaning that you can really not tell where you end and divinity begins?
Speaker: Yeah. And I think I was kind of like alluding to that. How you phrased it is is essentially kind of like how what I was saying, you know, i connected something. I felt like I was trying to run away from myself when I was younger. And I really was because it just I mean, if I had more time to kind of elaborate, but it's just like there was a running away in some ways, like it didn't fit because I didn't understand And, you know, it's kind of like that, that, that part where, you know, you can read all the books, you can get all the knowledge, you can be thrown all the verses, you can be a part of the church, you can, you can know all the right moves, you can know all the right chants and the mantras, you can know all the right things to do.
Speaker: But there's that moment when it finally just like clicks. And And I think that that's what this has been like for me.
Speaker: the um Though like the washing of the feet and the discipleship that, you know, i had, I had witnessed that in the church, you know, in the, in the church that I grew up in. And I knew what it was like to be in service of, but it was like,
Speaker: I don't want to dismiss everybody, but it was very, what I found and what I saw was very performative. and what i experienced in my initiation and everything else was like, this is what this was for.
Speaker: Because of carrying that knowledge and that lineage unbroken, essentially through acharyas, through the gurus, through our lineage was, it wasn't,
Speaker: necessarily a performative. It was like a living testament, a living practice of something that had been going on for thousands of years.
Speaker: And it was not disassociated from its meaning and the the action. It was a yoga. It was truly a yoga in the sense of like, you're getting to see, like I was saying that we carry our ancestors with this all the time. you know, they will feel our joy, they will feel our sorrow, they will feel all of these things as we are a living testament to them as well and carrying that past with us. And so it felt like that same thing of like the ancestors and Acharya being the vessels of that lineage and that knowledge.
Speaker: And it's like you you can feel that spirit moving through the vessel. And so when I think of like my smaller purpose as a human, as me does Bob to the purpose of so storytelling, and then also combining that with the bigger purpose of life and who I am and as a human being in this world, combining those things. And it's like, I'm still struggling to figure that out. And how do i do that? And I would, this is where I would really love the divine intervention and the big aha moment, but maybe it'll come in small things. Um,
Speaker: But I just see that I see every day, you know, sometimes you forget about it, you know, like you're taking aip a sip of Coke and it's like, I remember it's not, you know, you try to tell yourself it's not me drinking. It's, it's part of the universe and God.
Speaker: And there's like that union and that yoga of all the things and aspects that we're doing. And even the things that I'm saying, I'm trying to remind myself that it's not so much me, me,
Speaker: but it's how this person, this outer shell is being able to receive certain things so that I am actually also being a part of this whole story. um so I'm noticing things like that and trying to be more cognizant of both like this outer shell of me, and then also the inner work that is being done through me.
Speaker: and, and trying to find that balance between, you know, i think that my ego tends to be more fearful than it is. It's like, well, here I am. And it's kind of seemed like maybe that's counterintuitive because I'm an actor. um But it really is it's like, I'm trying to be out there, not for my sake necessarily, but I'm trying to be out there essentially kind of the same way, like I was saying with Shiloh or anybody else is like, because I feel like
Speaker: This is a calling to be a part of the lineage the same way as I see the archaryas, to be a teacher. Wonderful.
Speaker: Wonderful. Well, this has just been a delight and i love your enthusiasm, your wisdom and your grace and your tone definitely is drenched in love. And we're so happy to have you as part of our Kriya family.
Speaker: um I'm struck by how often this conversation has returned to one theme, and that's home. Coming home to your heritage, to your gifts, to your service, coming home to your own heart, and perhaps through Kriya, coming home to the divine presence that's always been right there within you from day one.
Speaker: What a beautiful, beautiful journey. And Desva, every guest who joins us um answers this little question in a different way. And I love it because it shows how many different souls there are that can express joy in their lives. And as you know, we call our podcast Living in Joy.
Speaker: As you sit here with us today, what does living in joy mean to you? Has your understanding of joy changed as your spiritual life has deepened?
Speaker: I want to say yes i want to say that, trying not to make this even longer, but like, I want to say that like I struggled with a lot of anxiety, depression growing up.
Speaker: I feel like a lot of that was generational trauma, but also just programming from, you know, just how we're supposed to survive and be small, especially as a person who is a minority and a woman How do you play small and don't speak up and don't be a part of
Speaker: so that you can survive?
Speaker: And I'm finding more that as i love myself with compassion and I'm able to um
Speaker: be more loving towards myself and really truly taking care of me in the sense of like, I have a responsibility, not just to myself, but I have a responsibility to my family to be at my best.
Speaker: and not in note And not in this kind of like martyred way. A lot of times I want to say mothers tend to do without really realizing it or like even kind of resentment because, you know, you tell someone a million times and then no one listens.
Speaker: Really trying to be in service and love because that was what God has provided me to do as a mother.
Speaker: as a woman, as a human being, and how do i be in a place of love and of service does really truly bring me joy when it is given completely and fully with the capacity that I have and growing that capacity so that it is divine love that is flowing through me And that brings me joy and that of allows me to be joyful, like even looking at a cloud.
Speaker: And what a beautiful, beautiful um world that I can help to create for myself and for others. Beautiful.
Speaker: And what you've shared truly reminds us that joy is independent upon perfect circumstances. at all, it grows from remembering who we truly are. And that's one of the main messages of Kriya, who are you? And once we remember that we are divinity, that we are namaste, everything in our life begins to make much more sense as you've so beautifully and elegantly shared with us today. And we thank you so much for sharing your heart with openness,
Speaker: ah humility and wisdom. it's It's just been a journey with authenticity and we we truly celebrate your life. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you. it it has been my joy to spend a little bit of time with you. And one of the things that's touched me most about today is realizing that your life has never really been about choosing between your creativity and your spirituality, between your serving the community and deepening your inner life, you've you've really showed us that you are honoring your heritage as you discover new expressions of yourself, Desba. That's it's very beautiful.
Speaker: And your story kind of reminds us that when we sincerely seek God, he doesn't ask us to become someone else ever. She gently reveals the deepest truth of who we've always been.
Speaker: And your life beautifully reminds us of that in all your experiences. So thank you again for reminding us that coming home is not simply returning to a place.
Speaker: It's returning to the divine presence that's always lived within us. We're so grateful for you. Thank you. Thank you again. Thank you. And we hope our our paths will cross with you soon.
Speaker: And now just a reflection before we say goodbye from our Guruji Baba. He has written that love all as the power of God.
Speaker: Serve all as the power of God. See all as the children of God. For this is the path to goodness.
Speaker: And now to our beautiful listeners around the world, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us for another sacred conversation on living in joy. Every woman who joins us reminds us that there are many paths, many stories, cultures, life experiences, and that the longing of every sincere heart is exactly the same to know God.
Speaker: to love more deeply, to live more consciously, and to discover the joy that's always been waiting within. If today's conversation with our beautiful guest has touched your heart, we warmly invite you to subscribe to Living in Joy on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
Speaker: Please share these conversations with your family, your friends, and anyone whose heart may need a little encouragement today. Together, we're creating a circle of women all around the world who are supporting one another on this beautiful journey of awakening.
Speaker: Until we meet again, may God and gurus bless you. May Divine Mother lovingly guide your every step. May your meditation become ever deeper, your heart ever more open.
Speaker: And may you continue discovering the quiet joy of living each day in God's presence. Jai Guru.
Speaker: podcast is brought to you by the women's ministry of koreaya yoga international you can learn more about the ministry at our website women'sministryofkreya dot org korea yoga is a powerful meditation practice that awakens constant communion with the divine through the science of the breath Handed down from teacher to student in an unbroken lineage of enlightened masters, it transforms body, mind, and heart, helping us be calmly active and actively calm.
Speaker: Today, this living tradition welcomes seekers everywhere through the guidance of Paramahamsa Pragyanananda, the principal disciple of the great master Paramahamsa Hariharananda. To learn more about Kriya Yoga, please visit kriya.org.
