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Civic Engagement in Richmond
1 Playsin 11 hours
Lawson Wijesooriya is joined by Dr. Danny Avula, the mayor of the city of Richmond, to discuss Christian Community Development in their city. They reflect on their history with CCD, how they are listening to the community, and how Dr. Perkins' legacy has shaped their lives, families, and vocations.
Join us in Richmond this October 7-10 for the CCDA Conference! Visit ccda.org/conference to learn more.
Each August, we focus on civic engagement as a CCDA Family. Learn more about engaging with your local government at ccda.org/civic.
Dr. Danny Avula took office as the 81st Mayor of the City of Richmond on January 1, 2025.
Before his election to public office, Danny served the Richmond and Henrico Health Districts for 12 years, including 6 years as its Director. There, he championed efforts to increase access to care for the most vulnerable residents of our community, prioritized the voices of those with lived experience, lifted up the intersection of housing and health, and addressed the root causes that shape health outcomes-especially poverty and race.
Born in Hyderabad, India, he immigrated to the United States with his parents in 1979. A father of five, Danny and his wife, Mary Kay, have lived in Richmond's East End for over 20 years. Mary Kay is a teacher with Richmond Public Schools.
Click here to learn more about Danny.
Lawson Wijesooriya is the Chief of Staff for Richmond’s 81st Mayor, Dr. Danny Avula. Before leading his successful bid for mayor as campaign manager, Wijesooriya spent 15 years leading local non-profits—with a focus on strategy and community development—to serve some of the city’s most vulnerable residents. She graduated from the University of Virginia as a Phi Beta Kappa Jefferson Scholar and is a mother of two.
Learn more about CCDA and how you can get involved at ccda.org. Connect with CCDA on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Follow CCDA on YouTube.
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Transcript
Introduction to the CCDA Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to the CCDA podcast. My name is Lawson Wajay Saria. I am the chief of staff to Mayor Danny Avula here in Richmond, Virginia.
00:00:21
Speaker
And I've actually been a part of a CCDA member congregation for my whole adult life and have great memories of when I went to some CCDA conferences in my twenty s And I am your host for this episode.
00:00:36
Speaker
Today, i am joined by a very special guest and happens to be one of my dearest friends, Mayor Danny Avula. Welcome. Can you tell us about yourself?
00:00:46
Speaker
Sure, Lawson. Thanks so much. And hey, everybody. Great to be with you all. This is really
Mayor Avula's Connection with CCDA
00:00:51
Speaker
a treat. CCDA has been a huge part of my family's life, our collective life and community over the last 20 plus years that we've been living and serving in Richmond, Virginia.
00:01:04
Speaker
I have been blessed enough to be able to serve as mayor of the city for the last 18 months, and I'm sure we'll get into it. The Lawson was a huge part of that, not only getting getting us into office, but also the entirety of this 20-plus year journey. And so I am husband, father, have five kids that we raised here in Richmond. I'm a physician by training, a pediatrician, public health doc. I've spent most of my career in the public sector. But yeah, we've been on a wild journey as and chief of staff these last 18 months. So thrilled to share more about that with y'all.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I know we both are really excited about the CCDA conference coming to Richmond for the first time this October. We really can't wait. So I figured let's start with sharing a little bit of when did we first hear about these community principles?
00:01:57
Speaker
And John Perkins, of course, is a big part of that story. So kick us off,
Influence of Alternative Spring Break Trips
00:02:02
Speaker
Dani. Yeah, I think it takes us back to our teenage years, right? I mean, we so we met at the University of Virginia in the late 90s. I was there from what I was, ah i was class of 1999 at the University of Virginia. Lawson was a few years behind us, but There was a movement on grounds at UVA actually started by one of my roommates who eventually became Lawson's husband, a wonderful friend named Ramesh, who, along with some other students, heard about John Perkins and Voice of Calvary Ministries. and And I think in response to seeing some of the kind of disconnection of the Christian community at UVA, the fact that that particularly along along racial lines, there were You know, large ministries serving white students and and more you know focused on the Asian community or the black community and not a lot of intersection. and And so there was a group of students who decided that they were going to do an alternative spring break trip down to Jackson, Mississippi. And I was not part of that trip, but my wife was and Lawson's husband were were part of that initial trip. And it was it was so impactful for the students who went, for the relationships that came out of it, for the impact that that group of students had on the university community. And so for successive years, this alternative spring break trip down to Jackson continued. And, you know, Lawson, I know you joined that at some point. So I'd love to hear kind of how you got plugged in and and what some of your early responses from that were.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, i went on 1999 trip, which was the second year. And I've often joked with folks, there was a good thing like I didn't get sick because it was a very big week in my life where really my my probably entire trajectory changed of feeling like I understood grace for the first time, began to take my faith seriously. And it was in large part because of the witness and testimony of both John Perkins himself, but really this movement of Christians that were responding to a call to build kingdom
00:04:10
Speaker
um in in in a way focused on justice and on kind of the the wholeness of that upside down kingdom. And I was riveted at every level. i i wanted i just wanted to be all in. um if If this is what Jesus was about and this is what these people were about,
00:04:28
Speaker
And then I i wanted to to kind of jump in with both feet, which I did after after the trip and then went on successive trips, as you shared. um And it was really great. The power of that experience, the power of that, you know, that movement coming back to university.
00:04:46
Speaker
not only like had really cool impacts on the Christian community UVA, but also in the context of of forming deep friendships across background and and racial lines, but also, you know, really becoming the blueprint in so many ways of of how some of us would would choose to live our lives in the long term. And, and,
00:05:07
Speaker
You know, i remember, so probably I lived with 11 guys in a place called the Center for Christian Study. And it was a group of guys who just like loved each other, were really deep in relationship with one another, were really committed to thinking about how we would engage our university community together.
00:05:25
Speaker
And I remember at the end of college, sort of that time wrapping up and all of us just feeling this ache about the fact that we were literally going all over the world and and wondering, like you know how do we
Community Development and Career Choices
00:05:38
Speaker
preserve this? like This has been such a rich, informative experience living together, serving together. and and yeah, like what would it look like for that to continue in some way, shape, or form into the future?
00:05:52
Speaker
and that was a question I think you know we and kind of the broader community, as as we all ended up getting married over the next few years and you know that we would we would come back to time and time again. And you know I had started medical school, others had started seminary, some folks were doing different kinds of work all over the country. And so this nagging question of you know how how do we take the things that this group of students experienced in Jackson, the the principles of living incarnationally, of living your lives out for, for particularly across racial and socioeconomic lines, um and doing this deep community development work. like how How do we make that a part of our lives? And you know it's a question we've kind of batted around for four or five years as we were kind of progressing through grad school and and other experiences. And
00:06:46
Speaker
And there was a point, i think, you know, when Ramesh and I both were were're finishing up medical school and having to decide, okay, where do we want to prioritize being for residency? Another one of our friends, Corey Widmer, was finishing up seminary.
00:06:57
Speaker
and And there was a point where, like, the conversation had gone on long enough. And Lawson, I very vividly remember being like, hey, it's time to make a decision. You said it with some, you know, zestier words than that. But But i I do think like that push to say, okay, like we we have been thinking about, talking about, praying about like what door might open for us to move with intentionality into a community.
00:07:26
Speaker
And we were kind of like just logistically getting to a place in life where, okay, like we can actually make some countercultural decisions to not just go where the best job is or go to the best residency opportunity, but to really like,
00:07:41
Speaker
make make some intentional decisions about what's important to us. Yeah, I think that's right on. And at that point of our readiness to live out this kind of relocation journey, why Richmond? You know, what how did how did we get to Richmond specifically? And what part of like Richmond's story essentially did did we feel a part of?
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, so at the time, my wife Mary Kay and I were the only of the of the group of friends who i ultimately ended up in Richmond. We were there. I was in medical school there, and that's what had brought us to Richmond. And I would say Mary Kay, who actually grew up in Richmond, never had any intentions of going back, but God had a different plan. And so we ended up there for med school. And I really did think that I would be heading to D.C. or Atlanta or somewhere else for for the next stage of life.
00:08:31
Speaker
But during my time in med school, you know, one of the things I increasingly became interested in and and focused on from a career standpoint was was really thinking about the intersections of poverty, race and and health outcomes. And and i was doing some work in one of our large public housing communities, some health education work setting up health fairs for for med students. And I met a man named Don Coleman. And Don was working at a nonprofit in Creighton Court at the time. Don had grown up in public housing, had lived his entire life in Richmond, was ah a pastor and a community activist, and just somebody who had like devoted his life to the East End neighborhood of Richmond. And you know Through that relationship with Don, through seeing his commitment to that community and his heart for the East End and just our our growing relationship over time.
00:09:28
Speaker
that, you know, like there was something about that that we wanted to be a part of. And so there was ah a process, like a discernment process that we started inviting, you know, this group of friends into and and, you know, folks would come and visit Richmond. We would meet with different people around the city, really just like looking at where God was already working and where could we be a part of that? Where would where could we join in his work with the passions and and talents that that we brought brought to the table. And, you know, there was one one of our friends, Matt and Catherine Illion, in the midst of this really just felt like
00:10:08
Speaker
that there needed to be an invitation, right, for a group of students or or, you know, young adults who were mostly white, not entirely, but to to move into a community of color, like, we really wanted there to be an opening and an invitation. And I think through our relationship with Don and a couple of other folks who very, I mean, like,
00:10:32
Speaker
very explicitly said, hey, you guys should think about coming and moving into this community. Just felt like such an answer to, you know, that conviction on on Matt's part and and really our prayer that that we would be invited into a place to to join in work. And so...
00:10:48
Speaker
that yeah Very shortly after that, three of the couples made the move to Richmond and a fourth joined a year later. And it was such an adventure to kind of be in that making these these huge moves together and and really feeling like we were being invited into God's incredible work here.
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah, definitely submission to it's like local Black leadership was really important to us. And so much so that that invitation moment that did feel very spirit-led, we literally moved on to the same street as one of the leaders who had invited us. We're like, okay, that means that we will go actually here and buy our houses.
00:11:27
Speaker
I don't think it had to have been taken that literally, but... Yeah, that's great. Let's kind of bridge a little bit to, you know, you are now the mayor of Richmond, Virginia.
Journey to Becoming Mayor
00:11:37
Speaker
well you know, what would you say in that formative kind of value time when we were making those decisions about how we want to deliver our life? Like how how did those things lead you into public service in the government? Take us a little bit through how how we get to you being the mayor.
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's a pretty big bridge. It was a 20 plus year arc, but And one that I just, you know, I don't i don't think any of us really ever contemplated. There was zero zero aspiration on on my part to be an elected official.
00:12:11
Speaker
I think all of us, you know, like the group of friends that made that move and the broader community that we became a part of were just looking for very... practical ways to live in this neighborhood, to be neighbors, to serve our neighborhood. And that happened in lots of very cool, practical ways, right? i you know, I was As a physician, went through kind of a couple of different training. you know i did a residency peddia and in pediatrics and then and then in public health and preventive medicine. And I joined the health department as ah as a leader here back in 2009. And so a lot of my work was very practically involved in the east end of Richmond and neighborhoods like that where we were addressing health outcomes in low-income communities.
00:12:53
Speaker
Lawson, you took a teaching job at ah at a Christian private school initially and then kind of moved through education, but ultimately ended up leading an amazing nonprofit called Blue Sky Fund that was committed to creating outdoor experiences and outdoor education for low-income kids who never had those kinds of experiences. My wife, Mary Kay, started teaching in the elementary school in our neighborhood. And just, you know so many different, I think the the the decisions that all of this group of friends were making were so aligned to...
00:13:28
Speaker
How do we you know follow the to gifts that we've been given and and use those for the good of our community? And so I think all of us were just looking for for ways that those worlds would come together. And there was, yeah, I think especially in those early years, there was such a sense of like being on mission together and building relationships and sharing burdens and then moved into a phase of life where we started having kids and raising families together and and doing that with like the the full support and integration of a broader community. I'm sure we can talk a lot more about that.
00:14:04
Speaker
But I think to this question of like, how how did, how did, being mayor happen, I was the public health director for for the city. and And so a lot of my work, you know, in looking at what things impact health of communities, right? And how do you address things like chronic disease rates or access to healthcare or, you know, overall health outcomes at the neighborhood or community level? You know, part of the the place that that my work took me was that Health is in part determined by whether you have access to a doctor or not, but in much larger part determined by, you know, the education level that you attain and the income level of your family and the stability of your family and the built environment that you live in and all of these kind of broader social factors. And so a lot of my work as a public health leader here really looked at this intersectional space between health and housing, health and community development, health and economic development.
00:15:02
Speaker
And it meant that I was involved in in a a pretty broad network. and And so it was during that time, about 10 years ago, that Pastor Don pulled me aside and he was like, hey, man I just want you to know that I am praying that you would one day consider running for for mayor here.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I was like, that sounds crazy. And my wife was like, that definitely sounds crazy. And I, i yeah, something that kind of stepped away, never really considered. And i I promise you, like once a year, Don would reach out and he said, Hey, man, still praying for that.
00:15:38
Speaker
but And i think that, you know, again, like even even in like the months leading up to us deciding to run was not something we were actually considering. I was actually helping a friend who was a sitting city councilman get ready for his mail run. and and I think that there was ah ah a window where people just started calling me left and right and saying, hey, you should really think about about ah putting your hat in the ring. And so you know along with you and Ramesh and our closest group of friends, again, like going to our knees and and really discerning, like is this something that God could be calling us to?
00:16:19
Speaker
A huge part of that was Lawson's willingness to to quit her job, to come on and and to run the campaign and eventually for us to be partnered as we are in in this work. But yeah, i I mean, it was just, again, like not something that we'd ever planned for. I mean, there are a few things that that probably contributed to our collective success. One of those things being just Lawson is amazing at connecting in community. She's amazing at raising money. Like the campaign was amazing. really artfully and skillfully done. But i you know prior to that, in my public health role, I was, again, public health director during COVID. And so I was the person who was ah kind of the face of the the community response to in first enrichment in the surrounding county.
00:17:08
Speaker
And then later, the governor had asked me to come to the state level and to run the the COVID vaccine response for the state of Virginia. And so, yeah, there was just a season of a couple of years where I was very visible on TV, on the news, you know, four days a week for a but bunch of 2020 and then a few months of 2021. And so when when we started knocking doors and getting out in community, when we let yeah launched the campaign, it was just, I mean, it was really cool. Like even a few years removed, you have four years removed from that season, people were like, oh, you're the COVID doc. Like they were so happy to see me and and I think the trust and credibility that that that season afforded, along with, you know, like 20 years of living in and and working in community in so many different ways, I think, you know, we worked hard for it, but but yeah, we had a a pretty open path to it. And and so now we're 18 months in
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, and i think i just want to share for the CCDA audience in particular that ah one of the things I experienced during the campaign was i would actually get really defensive at times because we we were entering this very political world where we're obviously talking about values and you're talking about real things about how you want to serve the community. But in the political sphere, it is often about that.
00:18:31
Speaker
Can you, you know, do you check all the right boxes? Do you say the right things? Are you democratic enough? Are you this? And time and time again, i would just come back to like, Danny has lived this. Like these values that we're talking about, these things that we're promising we want to do for a thriving Richmond, he's lived them forever.
00:18:55
Speaker
10 times better than the super democratic consultants, you know, like, and I think that, yeah, so I just want to like share that as a part of what kind of coming into this political life that, yeah, that, that, that has, has lots of pros and cons and, and that we need people who have lived out the values in another context to,
00:19:18
Speaker
to also then be serving in our representative democracy, in my opinion. And I just think that came up a lot as as you're making that bridge from kind of living out these values to then trying to represent them and trying to craft them in the political sphere.
00:19:33
Speaker
i would just say that the depth of the way in which Danny had lived out those values, to me, was like the most authentic thing that we had in order to give. And and the thing that continues, to be honest, it continues to be something that I don't even know a lot of people still trust, which that Danny and I, like we are doing this because of what we perceive as our call to this city and to this place and to this people. And not actually because of the position or what comes next or the method, like the method of politics or the method of being elected official.
00:20:14
Speaker
it It really comes from the the motivation that we found by by living it out for the city and for the people.
Richmond's History and Community Challenges
00:20:22
Speaker
think that links to you know some of what we were talking about earlier about the why Richmond. you know i sort of i I got really micro about how the invitation came and and what we joined. and I think there's a more macro story about our city that is worth us talking.
00:20:36
Speaker
talking about, which is that Richmond's unique place in in this country's history was super compelling to us. You know you think about the fact that this city was in so many ways the birthplace of the domestic slave trade here in the United States. It was the place where thousands upon thousands of enslaved Africans were were brought up the James River and and walked through what we now call the Trail of Enslavement to Shaco Bottom, and they were held in slave jails you know, for weeks on end before they were sold off and and and and and sent further south. And and ultimately, you know, Richmond became the capital of the Confederate states, right? It was the political and governmental stronghold to try to preserve this absolutely atrocious practice of of slavery. and
00:21:31
Speaker
And the reality is that that history is so baked in to richmond who Richmond is. And and that has you know the the demons of that past still play out in so many ways here. And and I think you know when when we got here 22 years ago, you know Monument Avenue was lined with these 60 to 100 foot monuments to Confederate leaders. And there were these constant reminders of you know what this city was about and and what the ethos of of Richmond was for so long.
00:22:05
Speaker
And in some ways, like those realities being so in your face made conversations about race and class and history so ever present. And I think in our early years, like there was just there was no way around like really grappling with like where Richmond had come from. And I think in many ways has, particularly in in recent years, like since 2020, since George Floyd, since the racial reckoning, since the monuments came down, like absolutely accelerated, like the the deep commitment to racial healing that exists among so many people. Now, like we have so much more work to do as a city, but I just, I think that history and that reality of of who Richmond is and where we've been
00:22:55
Speaker
I've been played a lot into our sense of calling to be here and to participate in that work. So, Dana, you've shared a little bit about becoming mayor. I'd love to hear more from you on how you feel like your life in the neighborhood and just your your regular commitment to the neighborhood has informed you as a leader in your civic life. You know, i think the reality of like living in our community and being in like deep, real relationship with so many of our neighbors that have struggled, have come out of generational poverty, have struggled to keep a roof over their heads.
00:23:35
Speaker
I think like those experiences, those those relationships where my neighbors are asking, hey, can you help me figure out how to get to see a new doctor? Or I'm i'm having these financial struggles and I can't get a response from the city. you know, like at every stage of my career, when I was public health director, when I later became commissioner of social services for the state and was you know responsible for building and creating these systems that that many of my neighbors had to navigate to try to get access to resources. And certainly now as mayor, you know, that that like the the trust in that relationship, like the fact that people are willing to call me and say, hey, this thing is broken and we really need your help fixing it, like really shaped the way that I came to the work. And I think in so many ways,
00:24:24
Speaker
shape the importance of lived experience and resident voice in driving the work forward. And and i and I hope like that that has just been part of the DNA of the organizations I've been a part of over time to lift up resident experience and make sure that that was really a part of we were centered what what we were centered on as we seek to serve communities.
00:24:48
Speaker
I think there's also a very like profound and and personal impact that it's had on our family's life. We have five kids and my oldest daughter is adopted. And she came to be a part of our family because of the neighborhood that we live in and because of proximity. Her grandfather lived at a couple blocks over and she would come and visit. She'd grown up and kind of bounced around a lot of different homes, but at would come and spend weekends with him and would come and visit us, you know, over time. And, and we, you know, she'd start spending weekends with us and, and really like becoming, we, we, we started calling her our weekend daughter after a few months of that. And she just like very much wanted to be a part of what was going on in our family. And we very much wanted her to be a part of what was going on.
00:25:37
Speaker
And as as she grew into her teenage years and and life progressed, there came a point where she came out of the closet. She embraced her sexual identity as a a young gay woman and her biological family didn't know what to do with that and and put her out of the house. And she came to us you know that day and just said, hey, I just need a safe place to crash. And and we thought, absolutely, like this will be two or three weeks, things will blow over. and that was nine years ago. And I think in in so many ways, you know God bringing Arjanae into our life and as ah as a daughter to us, helping shape the way that you know my works
00:26:18
Speaker
shows up at her school, teaching elementary school as a way that I have showed up in my various roles, as a way that her four younger siblings navigate the world, you know, through her eyes in so many ways, has been absolutely transformational for our family. And and I see that as as just God's gifts to us and and and really facilitated by the place that we live in, the neighborhood, the community that we're a part of.
00:26:45
Speaker
And we like to joke that she's the real first lady of Richmond because she's very into going to events with the mayor and it's pretty great. I love it. It's great.
00:26:56
Speaker
I think one of the things this audience might be interested in is i'm just thinking about, you know, how how does the Christian community that is seeking to, you know, love and serve their neighbors and to to to to build kingdom here on earth, like, how should they be thinking about interacting with a local government or, you know, government at all? And maybe just to tee up specifically for you, i think ah a place that you...
00:27:23
Speaker
experience during COVID is a really interesting one to just share like how central the faith community was in kind of what what what the business of government needed to be doing in an intense time. So yeah, share a little bit about that.
Faith Communities' Role in COVID Response
00:27:38
Speaker
I think certainly in in my work in health and healthcare and public health,
00:27:43
Speaker
there are lots of different spaces where we were connecting with faith communities, right? I think given particularly kind of the racial divisions that exist in Richmond as a city and and certainly in the Christian community in Richmond, the way to get information out and the way to leverage, you know, credible messengers when, you know, governmental public health had ah bad a pretty rough track record in black communities, right? For decades, governmental public health, you know, was very,
00:28:11
Speaker
abusive of communities of color, subjecting them to, you know, probably the the most well-known examples of the Tuskegee experiments where black men with syphilis were recruited into a governmental study. And there was just a lot of of deceit and subterfuge that ended up having a lot of Black men who were actually infected with syphilis or were not treated with syphilis and and watching the impacts of the disease. And so Tuskegee, but so many other examples over our history that eroded trust with
00:28:44
Speaker
in communities of color with the government. And so I think the efforts to really connect with faith communities, to build credibility, to build trust through, you know, really credible leaders was really important. and And probably no more time was that more evident than COVID, where, you know, the immediate distrust of what the government was saying, right? Like, do we wear masks or do we not wear masks?
00:29:11
Speaker
When we started to get access to testing at scale and wanted to go out and and provide community testing opportunities so people could know whether they had contracted the virus or not.
00:29:21
Speaker
You know here in Richmond, you know, we we were doing a lot of that in public housing communities because that's, you know, many of our low income residents didn't have access. to to regular healthcare. care And so immediately on social media, the warnings from people saying, hey, don't participate in testing the housing authority. If you test positive, they're going to use that as ah as a reason to evict you. right like I think that's an example of just the deep distrust that existed in government, but also in in what was happening with COVID at the time. And, you know, thankfully, so much of our work over the previous decade was actually building trust in those communities, hiring residents as community health workers so that they could be representatives of public health on the ground. We, in fact, in our big six public housing communities, we had had an on-the-ground clinic that was staffed by a community health worker resident from that neighborhood and then a nurse and a nurse practitioner.
00:30:16
Speaker
And so we had done a lot to combat and overcome that, thankfully, and in the in the decade leading up to that. But the fact remains that there there is just deep distrust. And so really relying on the faith community was was crucially important.
00:30:30
Speaker
You know, when I moved to the state role and we were, you know, leading the the charge for vaccination across the state, ah remember in the early days, people like didn't know what to believe and who to trust. And you know we and some of our partners at the Virginia Commonwealth University's Cancer Center, Massive Cancer, had started a network called Faith and Facts Fridays. And it was you know started during COVID. And it was ah a virtual gathering of pastors and other faith leaders who would join every Friday and and just have an opportunity to learn about a topic, a health-related topic. And at that time, it was like all COVID all the time. And then to ask questions and to and and over time, what what happened as a result of that is that you had this incredibly engaged group of pastors and and other faith leaders who had built a connection to massive cancer, had built a connection to public health.
00:31:24
Speaker
And so when it came time to roll out mass vaccinations, you know, so many of those pastors were the first to raise their hands and say, hey, I would love to get vaccinated on camera so I could validate this for for my congregation or for my sphere of influence. Or, hey, come to my church and we'd love to do mass vaccination here. And what that resulted in was over the course of that vaccination period, we actually had 2% higher rate of COVID vaccination in in Black adults than in white adults.
00:31:57
Speaker
across the state of Virginia. And for anyone who like pays attention to vaccination numbers, that is never the case. like Usually it's like 2x the other way that we have about twice the vaccination rate in the white community that we do in black community across flu vaccination or or standard vaccinations.
00:32:12
Speaker
but And so this was a real outlier. And I think, you know, so much in part because of ah faith leaders who stepped up, who got engaged and and who really joined the effort to help their communities know what to do in a time where like people didn't know who to turn to.
Navigating Racial Dynamics and Economic Disparities
00:32:29
Speaker
I'm thinking that it's also maybe important for us to share, you know, what have been, you know, certainly when we share about the early years and then, you know, and then we had this amazing run and became mayor.
00:32:41
Speaker
i think that can sometimes gloss over the times that are really hard or times where, Yeah, just, you know, kind of living out CCDA principles, you know, where reality doesn't always meet reality doesn't always meet our intentions. Yeah. Is there anything you'd like to share just journey along the way of, you know, what comes to mind for me is our like involvement in our public school system and navigating that with our kids even maybe if you could speak to, you know,
00:33:12
Speaker
how much race plays a part in leadership in our city in ways that make it difficult to to to navigate, you know, forward and yeah maybe just yeah share a little bit of the the harder times. I would say, particularly in the early years, I think all of us, like this group of ah friends and and our broader church community, which we should also talk about. But I think the the choices we were making to open up our homes to neighbors, to be really like deeply committed to building relationships across race and class,
00:33:52
Speaker
I think just presented like so many, so many challenges, but also so many like chances to to grow and to be shaped and to be formed. I mean, you know, in the first year, like the number of times that people would be like, are you cops? Because that was the only plausible reason they could come up with for why we would live in that neighborhood. and you know, we were, we you know, thankfully like my wife had started teaching in that neighborhood. Ramesh and I were both doing residency right across the bridge downtown. And so, you know, we sort of said, no, you know, like we, we wanted to live in a, in the community that we're working in and, and and wanted to really embrace,
00:34:31
Speaker
being in a place where like diversity matters and and we'd have the opportunity to kind of be connected to people who don't share the same background that we do. and And it took time for people to be open to that, I think. And it took like hours and hours on front porches. And you know it took many families, like many of us opened up our homes to other families living with us, right? Like I think both of us have had, I can't even count the number of kids families,
00:35:00
Speaker
that have have spent sometimes years in our homes. I mean, I think of a family that lived with you guys for um three years or more and that you are in still deep relationship with. And so especially early on, like trying to build that trust and trying to navigate power dynamics and the fact that like we were people who had means, right? Like we were doctors and teachers and nurses that that had steady incomes and and could afford to be where we were and could afford to renovate houses or could afford to move to a larger house when our families got big enough and having so many neighbors that that was not the case for. And and so I think there was a lot of like learning and and ultimately like the way that God shaped us in in like really learning to be generous in different ways, but also learning
00:35:50
Speaker
how much we have to learn from our neighbors who who don't share that, right? the Knowing what a community should look like and the way that neighbors are family to each other and support each other and are in the like details of each other's daily lives together. like Growing up in the suburbs, that was never my experience. And and in Churchill, I had neighbors who would like knock on my door and be like, hey, the the street sweeping is coming. Move your car before it gets towed.
00:36:20
Speaker
More, i I remember very early on someone like my lawnmower was in the backyard and that someone ran off with it. And was like, man, I shouldn't have left it out there. And literally within 24 hours, just by talking to some neighbors and friends, they were like, oh, we think we might know where that is. And so we were able to track it down.
00:36:37
Speaker
and And so there is just this sense of like history and connectedness and community that that Churchill afforded so many of us and that we are like really just are so grateful that we were over time invited in to be a part of that.
00:36:52
Speaker
Now, that has also been really difficult because 22 years into this journey, our neighborhood looks really different.
Demographic Changes and Gentrification
00:37:00
Speaker
And you think about in the in the the early days, I mean, there were probably 10 to 12 years where there was not really much change at all demographically in the neighborhood.
00:37:11
Speaker
But I think as nationwide, we saw this huge push for people to want to like move back into cities and to live in walkable and bikeable spaces close to downtown. The city started to see that opportunity and started to invest in our neighborhood. And so the health system that exists here started... fueling businesses through grants, and the city started offering tax abatements for people who would come in and and renovate houses.
00:37:35
Speaker
And all of that, sort of the collective of that, led to a significant amount of development and and ultimate displacement for long-term residents who could no longer afford to keep up with the rising rent costs, or even if they were homeowners, like that, increasing tax assessments ultimately pushed them out. And so I think those realities of gentrification and displacement have been very much a part of our time and our and our learning in Churchill. and And in so many ways, you know, for you and me, Lawson, I think Lawson spent a a good chunk of her career in affordable housing.
00:38:09
Speaker
Like the reason we decided to run for office and and ultimately sort of take this jump, like one of the big reasons was watching what happened to our community.
00:38:20
Speaker
And feeling like that trend happening all over the country was going to continue to be the story in different neighborhoods in Richmond unless we got really proactive and intentional about stopping it. And, and you know, I think in Lawson's work in affordable housing and and my work and in public health,
00:38:40
Speaker
understanding the way that policy can be leveraged, understanding the best practices on, you know, tax abatement programs or or funding to to help keep long-term homeowners in their homes. Like there are policy and programmatic levers that can be used to preserve diversity in communities. And so that was a huge motivator for us.
00:39:02
Speaker
to to kind of take this step and to to be in a place where we could really center on keeping communities diverse and protecting particularly lower income residents who are vulnerable to to those kind of community changes.
00:39:16
Speaker
This has been your place of expertise for so long. i mean, ah maybe talk a little bit about how that's prioritized certain policy issues for us. Yeah, no, I mean, I think you nailed it. I think we, you know, very much because of our faith and training in these principles, I think we really do believe that like authentic mutuality and and that that kind of seeking of mutual flourishing, like the only way to get it is
00:39:50
Speaker
to be in deep relationship with people that we're not like. and we, as I, when I was in affordable housing, I would often share with folks like, you know, literally what, what do all, ah what do all real estate agents say about, about like the value of a home? It's like location, location, location. And then we've literally built a market around separating ourselves from different things. My home, the the single most important factor on the value of my home is the value of the homes around it. And that literally creates a market system that um makes it very, very difficult for us to live in proximity to one another. I know Bryan Stevenson is a great leader in our nation right now, talks tons about proximity being an important factor. We've got, you know, Raj Chetty's data that shows like that, that's the most important thing we can be doing for economic mobility is to be in relationship across, across opportunity, across income levels.
00:40:56
Speaker
And we just, we have a system that was just built on something else and we've inherited it. And I think that's why i also, it's why I'm passionate about Richmond being a leader in our nation, because and We do, we go around and visit other cities now, even you know in our in our roles. Richmond is trying to seek these values on top of layers and layers and layers and layers of historic injustice. And how do we do that? And you have to be working, you know, in my opinion, you got to be doing both. Like we have to be working at the systemic level.
00:41:30
Speaker
And that has to be led by people who have the real individual relationships that are informing that system's work. And it's and it's just, it's a both and. and And I do think it it informs our policy making every day, which is how do you How do you prioritize the the historically marginalized and focus on them in your kind of system design, but believing so deeply that that is what is best for everybody and healing for all of us? And yeah, and I believe that in schools. I believe that in housing. I believe that kind of all across the sectors working together. I mean, that's been a real deep joy for me working in
Commitment to Public Schools and Community Impact
00:42:12
Speaker
City Hall. It's the most diverse environment I've ever worked in, actually, just racially, age, gender, just all of the like all of the things are here just because it's a big system. And and it has blessed me. I learn and grow more um in a diverse setting than I do when I'm not.
00:42:29
Speaker
And I think that's true for our kids as well, right? Lawson mentioned, you know, like investing in local schools has been a huge part of our life and our commitment. You know, when when we first moved here, my my wife started teaching in the in the neighborhood elementary school, but all of our kids have come up through Richmond Public Schools and You know, I think at times decisions that like their grandparents weren't so thrilled about. But but for us make and and I will I'll be perfectly honest, like as an as an immigrant kid growing up in this country where my parents were like education, education, education, every move and every decision that they made was like creating the best pathway for me and my brother.
00:43:07
Speaker
Like it was really hard to kind of look at, you know, like the academic outcomes or, you know, the the colleges that that kids from Richard Public Schools at the time maybe had access to. And and so early on, they were like, there was some real internal wrestling.
00:43:25
Speaker
And I think my wife had a lot more clarity about what was important for us. And I think our collectively, you know, as a group of friends committed to this kind of incarnational living and and like really being in community and of community, there have been few things along this journey that have like embedded us ah as much in our community as our life in public schools. And, And just like having that shared experience with our neighbors and being you know part of the PTA together and and having like just those social connections and run-ins because of school life has been an amazing part of like how we've been shaped and how we've been a part of of this community.
Formation and Influence of East End Fellowship
00:44:07
Speaker
I think it's also worth talking about East End Fellowship and and the story of East End. you know, Lawson mentioned at the front end of this that she's been part of of a CCDA congregation for 20 years. And, you know, when when we first moved into the neighborhood, there were a lot of different churches in the neighborhood. But that story of of many of those churches, predominantly African-American churches, was ah ah ah church that had been like sort of parish model, like geographically very connected when those churches were established back in the 50s, 60s, 70s. And over time, as the neighborhood changed and as largely, you know, certainly the the middle class and upper middle class white population left, and then subsequently the middle class black population left our neighborhood,
00:44:54
Speaker
the the congregants left with them. And so those churches, though existing in our neighborhood, didn't actually have a lot of neighbors that went there. And so, you know, in the early days, we we ended up getting connected to the church that Mary Kay grew up in. and and And I think members of our our group were sort going in in different directions, but also like doing the work of being involved in, you know, Blue Sky Fund or affordable housing ministries or teaching in schools.
00:45:23
Speaker
And we had this incredible visit from John Perkins himself, you after through some of the various connections, invited him up to Richmond. and And, you know, he spent a long weekend, like connecting with so many different peoples. You know Pastor Don was at the center of all of that. There was a youth serving ministry called CHAT, Church Electivities and Tutoring.
00:45:46
Speaker
and And Dr. Perkins, you know, at the end of his time with us, said, you know, it is it's really beautiful to see God at work through all of these different activities and ministries and outputs.
00:45:59
Speaker
What I don't see is a faith community that is anchoring all of that. and And I think that really became the impetus for Pastor Don and our other friends, Corey and Sarah, who had moved to join us Corey was working at another church for Pastor Don and Corey to kind of decide that they were going to team up and and lead a new congregation. And our our families were both a part of that. And Lawson's family continues to to serve there and be a part of that community. Yeah. What what would you add to that?
00:46:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah, no, just that it was, it it felt like it was this CCDA tour ah various ministries, because there were a lot of others, Northside, Southside had some, guys in Ruth and The Rock and and other things. And then it felt like we were getting like our our report card at the end. And and Dr. Perkins was giving us great marks and then said,
00:46:57
Speaker
no we're missing something here. You need a public expression of this being centered in the gospel. And and we made quick work of believing that that really was a prophetic word from the Lord. And so, and I should never use a report card analogy when we're talking about the gospel, forgive me. And so very much the opposite of that. We really just heard God's kind of heart and grace through Dr. Perkins for our community to say, yeah, it's time to It's time to gather as a congregation and to you know to to to name this deep heart motivation that's at play for all of this work. And and we did. An Easton Fellowship was born. And it's fun this upcoming weekend, actually. We are celebrating our 20th anniversary um as a congregation. and
00:47:47
Speaker
there's a documentary coming out. I think this will all be a part of the fall when CCDA visits us as well, which will be great. So, yeah, so I have one last question. i do kind of want to turn it maybe a little bit to the future, which is either if you want to just kind of give a message to, you know, what what would your hope be for CCDA, you know, people and members to see or or kind of gain from coming to Richmond or maybe more
Hopes for CCDA and Richmond's Future
00:48:16
Speaker
broadly for you. You are the mayor of Richmond right now. you know what's your hope for the faith community to help us move Richmond towards, you know, God's heart for the kingdom?
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think kind two things come to mind immediately. One is that the principles we learned early on from CCDA have been so instrumental to like forming who we are as as Christians, Christians,
00:48:48
Speaker
residents of of the city as like civically engaged people. And that idea that like we are all created in the image of God and and we need each other to to fully express God's plan for us. You know, i think like the intentionality behind reaching the cross race and class and and building relationships as as hard as that is in today's current societal contexts,
00:49:17
Speaker
like just it It could not be more important. And so seeking mutuality through intentionality, like i just I want the people of God to continue moving in in those ways and and making that a priority.
00:49:33
Speaker
And then as a city, you know, like that that story of of where Richmond comes from and what we have had to grapple through and recognizing that in that there have been such incredible examples of of resilience and of redemption that that like the the world needs to hear. And it really is my hope is the person who gets to sit in the seat for for a season that we do everything we can to to help Richmond become known as not the capital of the Confederacy, but really the capital of reconciliation or the capital of racial hero healing, right? Like to to have come from that dark past into a place where everybody knows Richmond for the incredible things that are happening now and and into the future. So yeah, that's my hope for our city. And it is my hope for the people of faith in this city.
00:50:33
Speaker
But i I hope broadly for CCDA that that's something that you guys get to experience when you're here in October. i hope like getting to you know i hope that's a reason that you guys would actually come because there really has ah there have been amazing ways that God has been at work here, and we'd love to share that with you.
Conclusion and Invitation to Subscribe
00:50:52
Speaker
Well, thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast. Thank you, Dani, for all of your time. I know it is precious because i fill it up a lot. If you want to learn more about CCDA and how you can get involved, please check out the show notes of this episode.
00:51:09
Speaker
ah Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. um This episode is produced by Sarah Kalin in association with Christina for We will be back soon with another episode featuring CCD practitioners who are committed to seeing people and communities experience God's shalom.
00:51:31
Speaker
We'll see you then.