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What happens when breastfeeding doesn't work out? Interview with Share the Drop founder, Kelly Cox
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Many families find themselves in the position of wanting their baby to be fed breastmilk, but not being able to breastfeed. This might be known ahead of time due to adoption or surrogacy, or it might be unplanned after breastfeeding doesn't work out for you. There is often shame and internalized judgement surrounding the difficult decision to stop breastfeeding. And many parents think that formula is the only alternative to breastfeeding. Sharing breastmilk, formally through a milk bank or informally through your community, is a great option for families who want their babies to have the benefits that breastmilk provides without being able to produce milk themselves.
In this conversation Kelly Cox shares with us about her app, Share the Drop, that offers parents a place to find breastmilk in their communities and create ongoing relationships to help feed their babies. Every parent who wants an alternative to formula should listen to this conversation.
We talk about creating a feeding plan for your family, the safety of breastmilk sharing, and how to create a successful, shame-free approach to feeding your baby.
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Visit Share the Drop and connect with your breastmilk community today.
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Topics
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Be Her Village podcast. I am your host, Caitlin Magraeus. I'm a Adula, a mother of three, and the founder of Be Her Village, a gift registry that helps parents actually get gifts that make them prepared for motherhood. ah Today, I am talking to Kelly Cox, founder of Share the Drop. and in very innovative and helpful breast milk sharing app. Because when it comes down to it, sometimes when we want to breastfeed and things don't work out, we feel like the only option we have is to turn to formula.
Benefits and Need for Breast Milk Sharing
00:00:33
Speaker
And Kelly has created an incredible app that helps you locate breast milk in your community and create relationships
00:00:41
Speaker
so that you can feed your baby breast milk, even if it's not your own. We're going to dive into all of the questions that you might have when we mentioned breast milk sharing, like how does it work? How do we know it's safe? How does the app work? um And how do we know breast milk sharing might be a good option for us? um All of that is in our conversation, and I'm so excited to share it with you. So without further ado, here is my conversation with the amazing Kelly Cox.
00:01:08
Speaker
I feel like this topic is so exciting and also probably for somebody that maybe like hadn't ever thought of the idea of sharing breast milk might cause like a what sort of a feeling so I would invite you before we dive into it like I would invite our listeners to approach with curiosity too, right? Like, and as you may invite, if you're not a skeptic or you're not having that feeling, you're like, yeah, breast milkshake, cool, I'm in. I would invite you to have the people around you, the skeptics around you just approach this was with curiosity um because Kelly, you have created this platform, this app, share the drop that helps people to share breast milk. So I guess my first question would be,
00:01:59
Speaker
What situations, like how might one identify themselves as somebody who would be in need of sharing breast milk? Because this might honestly be like a fully brand new concept.
Challenges and Planning for Breastfeeding
00:02:11
Speaker
So if, can we just start like baseline? Why would anyone want to share breast milk? Who is sharing breast milk?
00:02:18
Speaker
Yes, so I have worked with women, ah families really, but particularly women for years. um And we always focused on birth preparation, postpartum support, how we're gonna get a baby out. But the number one thing I saw them always say was, I had no idea breastfeeding was gonna be this hard.
00:02:36
Speaker
We have breasts, it's the most natural thing you're gonna do. And then for a lot of women, it just doesn't happen. Okay, so that's kind of the main topic. But thinking about families, there's no one way to create your family. There's no one way to feed a baby. So families today consist of breast cancer survivors. I myself am a survivor. If I had a baby, I could never produce breast milk. I would want that for my child, but that's not an option.
00:03:05
Speaker
um Thinking about people who adopt, you know, we're coming up November as National Adoption Month, a lot of um awareness about specific needs of people who don't give birth to their child. So most people who adopt are not la ti lactating. Lactating might not have the ability to start lactating.
00:03:20
Speaker
this is an option for them to feed their baby breast milk if that's what they want. ah People use surrogates. Some friends of mine just had a surrogate a baby via surrogate, but the surrogate is not close to them. So they you know can't afford the shipping back and forth. um She is also a breast cancer survivor. She can't produce milk. This is what they want for their babies. We have a lot of caregivers who are taking care of babies who aren't biologically their own, grandmas, aunties, sisters.
00:03:46
Speaker
same-sex couples who don't have the ability to to produce. So it's really outside of the norm of women with breasts who just you know may have to go onto a medication that might affect their baby. They have to go back to work. They they travel a lot. theyt They can't keep up with pumping. So women who are struggling to make enough for their babies and then people who are caring for infants and just can't lactate. So we we kind of don't think about that. We just always think about the moms.
00:04:12
Speaker
Wow, that was that's ah big list ah a big And I feel like what's so interesting about that list is there are people who will identify on that list and be able to plan, right? Like if you're having surrogate or an adoption or you're unable and you know you're physically unable um to, whether it's for medication or just a physical issue like breast cancer treatments, you won't be able to,
00:04:39
Speaker
produce breast milk. And if you want that for your baby, you have time to plan, but then there's this like other group. And this is the one I identify with personally, which might be, I don't know the stats, but feels like maybe the largest is the people who planned breastfeed and then life throws them a curve ball.
00:04:56
Speaker
whether it's just, wow, this is way harder than I thought, or a baby with a tongue tie, or, you know, ah inverted nipples, flat nipples. Those are fun. There's like so many things that breastfeeding can feel so easy until it doesn't. And then it feels really, really hard. Not to mention the mental health piece where just like some people are caught off guard by just how intense those early days of motherhood and newbornhood are and they don't under so they don't know and you can't know this about yourself, like how you're going to react to not having solid six or eight hours of sleep every night and it becomes a mental health issue, right? So so I love this list as ah as a starting place because it it's sort of like
00:05:37
Speaker
I just feel this like lifting of shame. You know, there's not, there's not this feeling of like, well, you need breast milk sharing because you suck at breastfeed. You know what I mean? Like you failed. So you're going to need this. It's like, no, there are just so many valid reasons that essentially if you want to have a breastfeeding relationship, if breastfeeding is something that you've researched, you've learned about,
00:06:01
Speaker
Maybe is your family tradition. I know in my family, it's the family tradition. Maybe there's just a desire for breastfeeding and like for health benefits in your life and for all of those reasons.
00:06:16
Speaker
it may not happen for you. And so what you're saying is essentially that there's another option because I think, and this is sort of like leading to next question, I feel like this idea feels a little fresh because in my experience, it has been like, okay, if I can't breastfeed, I have to formula
Historical and Cultural Context of Milk Sharing
00:06:36
Speaker
feed. There's this sort of like instant abandonment of any breast milk in any in any form coming into your baby. And then it becomes this like, what's the most natural, you know, like goat's milk and European formulas and which, which formula is the best? Like there's this whole immediate jump into the formula pool. And that is like a rabbit hole all on its own. But what you're saying with your app and with your experience is stop. There's something else. Can you talk about sort of those options when breastfeeding doesn't work out?
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah, um so I had ah a little history. I had a pre and postnatal yoga studio for about a decade and we closed during COVID. And you know we offered prenatal yoga, baby massage, birth prep classes, all this stuff. But um about two years into having it, I had a local lactation consultant came out and she said, I want to host a lactation support group. So every Friday for eight years, we had a free Free to anyone in community lactation support group and it was packed I mean I had so many people I had this big glass windows in the front of the studio I had so many people coming in let's say like are you do self strollers here because it was just like a sea of strollers and I would see moms in there feeding babies and Some were breastfeeding and they were kind of right up front if you will and then I'd see these women who had trained with me um during pregnancy
00:08:02
Speaker
And they were sitting in the corner, bottle feeding, kind of like shamed. And I was like, what? What is happening? And so um the the mental health aspect, I think, is really important to talk about because there is kind of this, like, social media wise, this whole, like, that is that that's not the issue. If you just learn to breastfeed, the mental health issues will go away. And I'm like,
00:08:21
Speaker
ah um You know, you think about, as a doula, I know you're a doula, I talk to parents a lot about ah um sleep deprivation being an actual torture technique that we use, like we have prisoners of war, they're sleep deprivation.
Mental Health and Breastfeeding
00:08:34
Speaker
It is a real thing. um My kind of big push recently, I don't know if I'm answering the question, i'm going but I'm going on this tangent, is that we prep so much for how is the baby gonna come out when we really should be prepping, like I talk about you have a birth plan, how about a feeding plan?
00:08:52
Speaker
um And we just don't talk about that enough. And so that, you know, during that support group is where I really started to key in on these moms have planned out everything. They've read every single book, um you know, they plan their birth, they planned kind of ah return to work and all that, but they didn't think about the feeding and it's really, really difficult. And so in those early days, especially if it's your first baby and and you're just kind of keeping it together and very little sleep, if you are feeling like your baby is just not getting enough and and you've never done this and you haven't had breastfeeding education, it's really, really easy to just send your partner to the store and get a formula and then it takes that worry away.
00:09:31
Speaker
That makes sense. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. And I sort of, one of the things that I want to highlight too, that you just sort of touched on is that in the earliest days of parenting, in this like brand new, you just had a baby, whether it's your first baby or not, but like, especially when it's your first baby, feeding is kind of everything.
00:09:54
Speaker
bats yeah if that's its the number one job That's the whole of parenting. like So I have three older kids. They're elementary and middle school age. And my job is like making sure they're polite, making sure they're eating, making sure they're doing their schoolwork. There's like all these layers of, and that's ah a whole other you know that's a whole separate podcast and company. But it is, you know there's so much to parenting and there's like such such vibrancy to it when you're in that newborn phase, your literally your primal, your chemical job is to make this baby thrive, to make this baby grow. You don't have to worry about the personality yet. You don't have to worry about college, you know, and if you are worrying about that, talk to somebody, reach out because you shouldn't be worried about that yet. You really have to worry about, are they getting enough calories in? Are they pooping? Are they growing? Is the scale going up? Or is this baby thriving?
00:10:48
Speaker
And I think that's part of it, right? Like there's this, there's this incredible pressure and focus on feeding. Um, and it, and it can feel incredibly overwhelming and there can be a divide certainly in, in this, like, are we breastfeeding? Are we not? And it's tough. I've like, I have opinions on this because it's so hard to call out the system, right? For it's, it's.
00:11:17
Speaker
issues. It's so hard to call out you know the formula, the predatory formula marketing, ah the complete and utter lack of infrastructure for nursing parents or parents, period. um you know this This idea of like that there are systemic issues that lead to low breastfeeding rates despite the high breastfeeding goals.
00:11:37
Speaker
And it's hard to call that out without also individually shaming people who have chosen it for all of the incredibly valid reasons we're talking about right now. So there is this like delicate balance of like, hey, system, you you're failing mothers in this way. And also individual person, you can do whatever you want. It's your body, it's your baby, it's your life. Like just do do what feels
Normalization and Support in Breastfeeding
00:12:00
Speaker
good. this Life is too short to feel bad about how we're feeding our babies, right? Absolutely. Yeah.
00:12:07
Speaker
I mean we you know as a as a doula I've kind of moved away from this talking people will say like can you teach me how to have a natural childbirth I'm like whoa um getting pregnant staying pregnant feeding your baby helping that baby thrive is the most natural thing you're going to do and it comes into play like in birth where people are like I this is my One time I had a client who gave me a laminated birth plan and I was like, oh no. um But it's like, you you don't know what the what it's like to have your cervix dilate and and go through that process until you're there. And so the guilt that I would hear from moms about like, oh, I got an epidural. like
00:12:44
Speaker
That's not a four letter word. um You know, it's the same with breastfeeding. They're like, they just think it's the most natural thing they're going to do. And as soon as it doesn't work for them, for whatever reason, it's the failure. Yeah. um And I just got tired. I'm a former therapist. I'm a therapist in recovery. um But I got so I get tired. i I get after working with women for so long, my frustration comes with seeing them struggle over and over and over because they're not fitting societal norms.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yes, um we've we've got to get away from that in in birth and parenthood and feeding and in so many ways, but I just got tired of the women who felt like there was like an insufficiency in their body because they weren't able to produce. right And then, you know, with women, um you know, I have so many, unfortunately, once you go through breast cancer, you have all this community of so many women in my community that I've kind of helped do this. And one of their first questions is how am I going to get breast milk when I um have a baby because my body has failed me and I'm like well you're you also survived and your body is very strong and like don't worry I'll I'll get you milk um
00:13:51
Speaker
You know, another population we totally forgot about was people going through disaster. So with all of these recent hurricanes, especially what happened in Western North Carolina, um there was all this talk about send formula, ready-made formula, great. But we were sending powdered formula to people who didn't have clean water. They didn't have a like ah electricity to sterilize pump parts and bottles. And so I'm like, wait a second. This is another time where informal peer-to-peer milk sharing comes in.
00:14:20
Speaker
um I love that we have 33 formal milk banks in this country. They are doing amazing work. Almost all of that milk goes to babies in the NICU as it should, but it's very hard for the average family to have access to that.
00:14:34
Speaker
um Informal peer-to-peer milk sharing is not a new concept. It's just not well known. so We've been wet nursing since 3000 BC. um you know During slavery in the in the United States, enslaved women who were lactating were forced to feed their master's children. right and so it's It's been going on and there's so much cultural issues that go into that, which is a whole other conversation. But um we we keep our neighbors alive, right? Like yeah I love Be Her Village. That's the name of your company. I always talk about um it's hard, the village raises the village, right? That's really where it comes in. And so um times of crisis where you can't get um formula on the shelves, where you can't leave your home very easily and you're just working with your neighbors. um This is where informal milk sharing really, really comes in because um any woman with excess milk knows how valuable it is. And if they see their neighbors unable to feed their children, they're they're going to give it. This is the nature of mean women, but that help humans in general. Wow.
Formal vs. Informal Milk Sharing
00:15:43
Speaker
I love this. Okay. So
00:15:45
Speaker
So this is informal milk sharing is sort of the term that we're talking about here. But as you just mentioned, wet nursing and this idea of like feeding somebody else's baby has been around for much, much longer than our app than milk banks. So can you speak just briefly to milk banks? Because that is definitely something um that I've heard of, right? And you say that it goes to the NICU. How do milk banks work and how does that compare to informal milk sharing? Like what are the differences and what are the similarities to those two options?
00:16:25
Speaker
So we have 33 formal milk banks in the country. These are usually associated with a hospital. um And they collect milk from donors. And then they pull it all together, pasteurize it. It is the absolute safest way to take donor milk and make sure that it's safe for our most vulnerable children, so the ones in the NICU. If you have a NICU baby, most likely they are given donor milk. It is the essential food that helps them survive. So this is crucial.
00:16:51
Speaker
um the The process can take 30 to 45 days. It requires blood testing. If you don't live close to a milk bank, they they can like send you to a local lab and get that. And they'll send you all the screening information. um But it's a lengthy process. Typically, you have to have at least 200 ounces to donate. um And so that just doesn't fit for everyone. so inform and And because most of that milk goes to babies in the NICU, it's very hard for um the average family to get it. So someone who has just had a baby via surrogate, it's very hard to get that milk and it's very costly. And formal milk sharing has been going on forever. In fact, they're it's widely popular on many, many Facebook groups.
00:17:33
Speaker
So when i back when I had the um the studio and I'd have women come to me and say they wanted to donate or they're looking for milk, I would send them to very popular Facebook groups. And they always came back with the
Safety and Trust in Informal Milk Sharing
00:17:43
Speaker
same thing, what which was, this is great, but it's so clunky. It's so cumbersome. You you have to like wait to be accepted. You have to then you' like you post on top and it's all forum-based, right? So and anything on a forum, I post at six in the morning, I have 400 ounces to give.
00:17:59
Speaker
but that's ah that's a lot that would be great you know someone else posts on top of me but you it just gets lost in the fray and you have to really stay up on it and so i just became in my area this kind of informal milk broker i but you talk to this woman and you talk to the someone and you kind of do it um So it's not a new concept, but I took what they were doing and just put it into an app form. So you sign up for text notifications, you know, you can do it in real time. And the key feature of my app is that we do it based on zip code because I don't want you going through the process, costly and timely process of shipping milk, paying for it. Not everyone can do that.
00:18:36
Speaker
um and So informal or peer-to-peer milk sharing is simply meeting someone in your community who has excess milk and then doing your due diligence. It's all informed consent, making sure you talk to them.
00:18:49
Speaker
Um, I literally created this based off a dating app. So, um, I, you know, years ago, I thought that was a good idea. It wasn't the best idea for me, but you know, going on and creating your profile to kind of, you know, for for informal milk sharing, what is your diet? Do you take any medical of medications? How old is your child?
00:19:09
Speaker
When donors come on, when they onboard with us, we ask, are you willing to share any recent medical lab work? and And if they say, yes, we put a little medical icon on their badge or on their profile, and some parents know, recipients know that's one more thing they can ask us to look at. But it's it's like dating your donor. It's asking all the right questions about lifestyle and how do you how do you pump? What are your pumping practices? How do you store milk?
00:19:33
Speaker
And then because it is so hyper local, it's like, Oh, well, hey, who was your prenatal yoga teacher? Who's your pediatrician? Try to vet, right? So I have a friend right here right now who's recently started dating and and she's and when one friend is like, Oh, I know this guy. And these are the reasons I like him. it's But it's that vetting, right? It's coming back to that village of um Do you know your neighbor? um but at But like asking all the important questions, we have a neonatologist on our board and he said, the questions you should ask someone before you take their milk are the same questions you should ask before you sleep with someone, right? I can go on a dating app and go meet someone and that I'm i'm making my own decisions to keep myself safe. I can call Uber to come get me and take me into a car with a stranger. I'm taking those inherent risks because I've done my due diligence.
00:20:23
Speaker
um So, informal milk sharing can be done by literally talking to your neighbors and saying, this is my issue, I don't have enough milk. Who do you know that has milk, right? it It's been, I see it all over on Facebook every day. Hey, my neighbor um um just got really sick because she got COVID right after she delivered. She's not producing enough milk because anyone have enough milk to get her through the next couple weeks. so it is all based on informed consent. As a business, we don't get involved. I don't get involved with matches. I don't touch milk. I don't ship it. This is literally meet someone, talk as long as you need to, ask all the right questions, meet in public, right? Talk about all the important things that make you feel like this is a trusted source. um It's really pretty simple.
Personal Stories and Community Support
00:21:09
Speaker
I love it. I i
00:21:12
Speaker
definitely know of all of these informal Facebook groups. And you're right, they are they're great for informal milk sharing, but they are they're not efficient. They're not easy to use. um it's you know The idea of bringing it to an app where everybody is there for the right reasons um is really incredible. I remember um donating milk actually. I have two experiences with milk sharing myself. One is donating milk to a mom who ah had a baby in the NICU and couldn't produce enough. And so she would like come to my house or I would go to her house and drop it off and then she would bring it in and give it to her baby. It was just, it was, you know, she was in crisis and I was the village for her. And then my sister-in-law um was an incredible producer. We were pregnant together twice. We both breastfed our babies.
00:22:04
Speaker
Um, but by the nature of jewel work, I was like home almost all the time and then needed to be away for like 24 to 48 hours. And I didn't really have a stash and she just dropped a ton of milk off at my mom's house who was watching my babies when I wasn't there and said, just if you need it, use it. And it was, it was actually so easy. It just felt so easy. And I think there's like this.
00:22:29
Speaker
feeling like once you do it, it just once you take the stigma away, of you know it's just breast milk. you know And I think that um it can feel that easy and it actually like just feels really good to be able to give your baby the breast milk once once you know, right once you're bought in on breastfeeding, you understand the
Critical Importance of Breast Milk for Infants
00:22:50
Speaker
antibodies, you understand the benefits. You understand that it's something, a substance that is alive, that is really good. Like like I want to sort of underline also part of the reason why these formal milk sharing, milk banks exist is because it's like medicine to the most vulnerable babies. These preemie babies, if they do not, I'm going to get the name wrong because it's not top of mind and maybe you know it, but there's a condition that if these tiny little babies do not get breast milk,
00:23:19
Speaker
if they are fed formula, it's like necrotizing something. It's basically their intestines start dying and it's not every baby and I don't want to fear monger, but there's literally a reason why there's a formal milk bank system set up for the most vulnerable because getting anything other than breast milk is dangerous for these little babies.
00:23:40
Speaker
And yes yes once you yeah so once you're bought into this, it really actually feels very easy and normal and actually great to be able to behave in an informal sharing so that you can give your baby what you know to be the best. Yes.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. When, um, when this was all still in concept, I had a local friend here, breast cancer survivor. And she talks to me, she's pregnant with her first that I really, really want breast milk and how, and I just couldn't find anyone local. Well, we had a mutual friend who lived it. I live in Virginia. that She lived in Texas. She had just had a baby and she was like, I have so much milk. So they, I mean, they already knew each other, but I connected them and they started and one would freeze the milk and ship it. And they came to me like, this is,
00:24:21
Speaker
This is life changing. However, they felt so guilty about the cost and they're like, we, it's expensive and we can afford it. And that's, that's not right. Right. So I wanted to take away that it's a print, something privileged that you pay for, um, and really put it back into community. So one of the reasons that, um, share the drop, you'd create an account using your zip code is not only do I want you to meet someone in a timely manner and be able to to get milk same day, but living in a village has changed my life. I have lived in Virginia 20 years, no family here. I have created this own village. I i have been in every point of my life surrounded by people who care about me and give to me because I give back, right? I'm a um'm a big, big community believer. And so
00:25:08
Speaker
um I want not only for families to get milk, but to go out and meet other caregivers and talk about Caitlin, who is your pediatrician, um your daughter's seven months as she's starting to crawl. Like all those things that, you know, we used to raise babies next to all of our family members in these big family villages and we just don't anymore. And so we have to create our own.
00:25:32
Speaker
That, I would love to get milk to everyone that needs it, but my altruistic goal is let's get parents mobilized and working together, raising babies together and supporting each other. like it It takes the village to raise the village, right? It's not one or two at a time. And if you found someone, if you were unable to produce milk and you found ah a woman down the street whose baby is gaining weight and meeting developmental milestones and she had excess that she wanted to give,
00:26:02
Speaker
That's the ultimate goal. Right. Absolutely. Because it benefits everybody. There's so many people who have an oversupply or something changed like their baby. What is it? What's the enzyme in the milk that you have to scald it and it makes it taste funky? Oh, lipase. Lipase. I was going to say lactase. That's not it. Um, so sometimes people find out they have a high lipase issue and they have 400 ounces in their freezer. And then, you know, and some babies don't mind a little lipase in it. So, um, there are so many ways and this, this idea of sharing, uh, and informal sharing is.
00:26:43
Speaker
huge and I'm so excited about
Comprehensive Feeding Plans
00:26:45
Speaker
your app. I want to circle back to something you talked about earlier and sort of get a little more and of a deep dive into it. You mentioned that when people are making their birth plans, they should also be having feeding plans. What kinds of things should people be thinking about as they develop a feeding plan. And I also just want to, you said and laughed and I want to like underline this as we depart into this part of the conversation, you said, oh, she had her birth plan laminated. And what I took that as is she had it laminated, which incites an eye roll because that means it's final.
00:27:24
Speaker
And birth plans or any kind of plan is really a living document. I always tell people it should be like scribbled in the notes app on your phone. It should be something with handwriting all over it that changes with each conversation. Like this is a living breathing document, not something that is final set in stone. So I'm assuming that's where like the lamination reaction is coming from. I guess my question would be,
00:27:46
Speaker
As we're developing feeding plans, what are the questions? What are the shifts? What are the sideways, you know, directions it can go? What are, for a good feeding plan for someone who's sitting, listening to this, who's actively pregnant or welcoming a baby into their life in one way or another, what are the things to consider if breastfeeding is a priority or breast milk is a priority? What what else should they be thinking about?
00:28:11
Speaker
um When I work with doula clients when they're still pregnant, I always say, well, like I try not to ever recommend books because we're so inundated with read this, read this, read this. um But I'll say, see if your hospital offers um any breastfeeding education class to do while you're pregnant um with your partner, anyone that's going to be supporting you.
00:28:30
Speaker
um And then go find a local La Leche Lake meeting. go find Go sit in on one while you're pregnant. Go find anyone who's doing breastfeeding support groups while you're pregnant and go sit and listen to what the women are talking about because education pre is better than in the moment when you haven't slept and you're terrified.
00:28:51
Speaker
um The other thing I also recommend to every client is find a baby basics class online through a hospital and make your parents and your in-laws and anyone who's going to be in your sphere take it because You know, we like we think things change. we we babies We have babies sleep differently than they used to, right? And so we swaddle babies differently, but whatever it is. Like if i um if I was ever, my mom and I were very very close, but if I told her something, she was the expert, right? But if someone else told her the same information, it came from an expert. So if especially like if breastfeeding is new in your family or if informal milk sharing is new in your family,
00:29:32
Speaker
Have them take or whatever whatever baby basics are. Have the people involved to have opinions and care about you. Have them take this class, um and most are available virtually, so that an expert is telling them how we do things now. That is a really good key to like setting up success for you and your extended family. um But take every opportunity when you're pregnant to ask all of your friends about breastfeeding, what worked, what didn't.
00:29:58
Speaker
um Are there local groups that you can, there yeah are there apps where you can sign on at three in the morning and talk to other people? But talk about it before you're in the situation. Because I think that's what sets you up for success the most. And every community I've been around has like some sort of local drop-in breastfeeding support. ah you know We're really lucky here. We have a big university out of a breastfeeding medicine clinic you can drop in.
00:30:22
Speaker
But do it while you're pregnant because you're going to I think you have more time to soak that in and and ask adam ask everyone you know what their experience was. And they're all all going to differ. But just hearing these little tidbits, or this was really, really hard for me week one, and then I figured it out.
00:30:40
Speaker
if you wait till you're in the moment, you kind of and towards go towards that crisis moment and then we're not prepared, right? Let's buts be prepared instead of reactive. I love that. And I i would include on in this plan, right? This idea of learning about not just the breastfeeding side, but the bottle feeding side. Yes.
00:31:02
Speaker
there is a learning curve to bottle feeding. There is a way to bottle feed and there's a way to not bottle feed. There's safety. I'm thinking about paste bottle feeding. um And the way that you bottle feed a breastfed baby is really different from the way you bottle feed a formula fed baby. So it's almost like developing this plan where you have like best case scenario for your specific scenario the backup plan, which might be informal milk sharing, it might be bottle feeding part of the time, right? If maybe there's a childcare issue or some people like to set up a bottle feeding plan for overnight so that the mother is not the one that has to be woken up, you know, every hour or two hours, depending on their baby, maybe it was every two hours.
00:31:44
Speaker
um And then, of course, like sort not worst case scenario, but this idea of like none of these things work. Couldn't find peer to peer breastfeeding, ah breast milk. and Couldn't breastfeed yourself and then end up in a formula situation. What does that look like? But I love this idea of scaffolding and creating a plan for each scenario so that you're not caught off guard. Because part of it, and like we spoke about this earlier, is this when your baby is not thriving, when it when something isn't clicking in that beginning time,
00:32:18
Speaker
There's never more panic in every cell of your body and not necessarily panic, but like alarm. And I can speak to this. Unfortunately, unfortunately I can speak to this from a really personal perspective. My daughter, ah my third baby.
00:32:34
Speaker
my third baby, I had successfully breastfed ah my two older ones and I was breastfeeding my third one. And she was just not okay. She ended up, died I self-diagnosed her and self-treated her and cured her. um She had something called F-Pies, which is a rare thing. Don't even Google it. It's probably not going to happen to your kid. If it does, um I'll be your best resource. um But basically she had this like extreme vomiting after every feed and she was just not gaining weight and it had to do with like allergens that she had a temporary allergy to things in my milk and ah things that I was eating.
00:33:11
Speaker
But, but that feeling, I mean, I literally was like, I got a scale. I was weighing her constantly. That was not the time for me to figure out a plan. And like, I had to, because I didn't, I didn't, why would breastfeeding not work? I just breastfed my other two. I've been breastfeeding for four years at that point. Like it just wasn't even a question.
Adaptability and Preparedness in Breastfeeding
00:33:31
Speaker
So I would even invite people who are having their second, their third, their fourth, their seventh baby.
00:33:38
Speaker
It's good to like refresh yourselves as you're asking your, your family and friends to refresh themselves on the newest recommendations. It's good for you to refresh yourself because if you're, you know, like me, you can get caught off guard. Every baby is brand new. Everybody, every baby is like this brand new little being that comes in with their own personality and their own set of, you know, issues, good and bad. Um,
00:34:04
Speaker
and it And I think it really like would have been helpful for me if I had a plan and and hadn't just completely relied. And I actually, this is this might be oversharing, but here we are. I remember after all was said and done, I regretted breastfeeding her as long as I did. But part of it was that I didn't know how to bottle feed her because I was a mom at that point for four years and I had not done the research. I had not had experienced bottle feeding. I always just knew how to put her on my breasts because that was, I had worked very, very, very hard to learn how to breast.
00:34:41
Speaker
learn how to breastfeed with my first baby. So by the time I came down to, I have three little babies. I have two toddlers and a baby, and I didn't have the skills I needed. So like learning how to bottle feed, this is, it feels a little backwards to say, Oh, you want to breastfeed? You should learn how to bottle feed. know But it's actually about taking a step back from, it's not about breastfeeding. It's not about getting your baby on your breast. It's about how do we optimize the health of the mother baby dyad, right? And that looks like getting breast milk sometimes from other people that looks sometimes like bottle feeding that sometimes looks you know it looks like plans changing and the more we can get prepared for that the better off we can be and I love that idea of taking a baby basics class
00:35:27
Speaker
And maybe even just like a refresher class for yourself about breastfeeding. I mean breastfeeding a newborn also like after having a toddler because toddlers for anybody who has already had a toddler you are gonna let like you know this but you know newborns like they come out they're all floppy you need to like hold their head a certain way hold your boob a certain way everything's big and small and it's hard to like make it connect.
00:35:50
Speaker
toddlers are upside down, pulling your nipple across the room. They're doing gymnastics. They're like tweaking the other way. It's a whole, it's a weird thing to go from nursing a two or three year olds to nursing a newborn. So even that refresher of like the basics of getting a first latch can be really helpful for somebody as part of that intentional feeding plan.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yes, but that that story about like the toddlers, that goes straight to the point of it's a learned thing. So that those babies learned, and as they turned into toddlers, they had learned how to do it. So the the baby's never done it, you've never done it, you have to give everyone grace.
00:36:26
Speaker
Um, the other big thing I think that it's important when you're pregnant is contact your insurance company.
Validating Feeding Choices
00:36:32
Speaker
So I asked them, do you cover any prenatal lactation consulting? Some will. And, um, that's huge. Like if you, if your insurance covers a prenatal visit, lactation visit, you're already setting yourself up for success and you're going to learn so much. And it's that hand, you know, hands on one one on one, which is great.
00:36:50
Speaker
um I do want to clarify, I am not anti-formula. Formula keeps babies alive. like they um I try to avoid going into the marketing and all that. But I mean, that you can breastfeed, formula feed, informal milk sharing. But the the the key is we want healthy fed babies. And so I just try not to get into this fact. There's nothing wrong with formula. And I don't want anyone to feeling ashamed because that's what they choose, right?
00:37:15
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh my goodness. um And yeah, I want to like just shout out really quickly the lactation network. ah The lactation network provides insurance covered IBCLCs and in all 50 states I believe in all 50 states. And they ah they also emphasize prenatal lactation education. And they're one of our partners on Be Her Village. You can find them. They are superb. I just absolutely love what they're doing. They have made IBCLCs accessible to people. um So absolutely either go on Be Her Village or go on the Lactation Network and try to see if your insurance is covered because they do have a tool to help you figure that out.
00:37:55
Speaker
Um, but it is that important to get that prenatal lactation education. There are things you can do. Um, yeah and, and I think it's like the foundational thing of just not assuming, oh, this is natural, right? And that can really like, that can undermine people who are working hard at learning something while teaching a newborn. yes There, there is like the natural.
00:38:17
Speaker
aspect of it and that it is a natural, normal, physiologically normal activity, and there's still a learning curve. And that's what's also natural is a community of people to help you figure that out. yeah And nowadays that looks like looking up your insurance or listening to this podcast or going to a class or whatever it is, but the the village is as natural as that breastfeeding relationship that
Safety and Ethics in Milk Sharing
00:38:43
Speaker
we're going to. absolutely yeah we love that Can we talk about safety a little bit? I always want to make sure I get this in. People always ask me like, is this safe? um i First of all, the number one safety feature we have is that we do not pay donors for milk. I very much understand the time energy it takes into pumping, storing, donating. I totally get it.
00:39:09
Speaker
But as soon as we open the doors to um paying for breast milk, it just opens the doors to fraudulent behavior. People can water down anything. They can, you know, sell you goat milk and nut milk, whatever. This is, um I get a lot of kind of flack, but people saying like, but these women are doing this thing that's really big and it's time consuming. And I'm like, yep.
00:39:32
Speaker
Um, because I think this is what we should do, right? If I had excess milk and my baby was flourishing and I have people tell me all the time, Oh my God, I didn't know I could donate milk and I just dumped it and I still feel guilt about it. Um,
00:39:46
Speaker
I do believe in noma we have a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world. Humans are good. Humans are but really good at heart, especially, I don't know, women, mothers, a little biased. But don't ever pay for breast milk. I mean, you can buy at all sorts of different places, but that's the number one, whether you share the drop or any other method, that's the number one way you can keep it safe.
00:40:07
Speaker
um We also have a report button built into the app. So if anyone thinks that someone's on there for nefarious reasons, they can hit the report button. It goes straight to me immediately. I deal with that. um You can buy testing strips for alcohol. um There are some testing strips coming out for like different animal proteins. But um you know anne at the end of the day, if you're really just on the fence about is a safe, you can home pasteurize. And we have information on about that on our website. That's totally up to you. but um you know, meet in a in a public place, ask them, bet them like, do we have any mutual friends? Call people like, do you know this woman? I'm about to get her breast milk. Do your due diligence, but please don't
Community Support and Gratitude
00:40:45
Speaker
pay for milk. that That's what worries me. and i And I do go on the app all the time and I read people's profiles, but that's what scares me. um And I'm very committed to always keeping it this way. I love that. And i I agree with you that I do think people are inherently good for the most part.
00:41:04
Speaker
whenever Whenever I feel like maybe I can't say that truthfully, I try to think about everyone as a newborn baby. like I try to sort of like think about whoever it is that I maybe think isn't good. they were born Everyone is born as a sweet, pure piece of love and light in this universe. yes and And I think that there is something to that and in terms of like just connecting mothers to mothers in the same place. There is so much generosity. There is so much um of a craving for a village. And it feels as good to be the village member who's contributing to somebody else's success as it is to be the person who's a recipient. And that's a really, really beautiful thing. I just had a conversation with my children about Santa. you know And and ah if if you have this on loud, just turn off the speaker.
00:41:53
Speaker
for a little bit. But, you know, they're at the age where they know Santa's not real. And I like to say to them, you know, I think Santa is real because I get to be Santa and the feeling that I get inside of me when I get to generously give you all gifts and give people who I love something special. The feeling I get from watching you receive that and from watching your faces and from seeing the joy that I have caused with my generosity. That's what Santa is. And so not to bring it back to Christmas, but it's like it it is that feeling of giving is is as valuable and as rewarding as the feeling of receiving. And your app
00:42:36
Speaker
um in is facilitating that in a really beautiful way. And I'm sure impacting so many people because and because in early motherhood when feeding your baby is like the only thing that's sort of on your plate surviving and feeding your baby and making them grow and thrive.
00:42:54
Speaker
um It can be such a huge game changer. So I'm really glad for you Kelly for creating this app, for building it, for pouring your time and energy into it. I know as a founder as well of um Be Her Village that it is thankless at times. And then there are moments of just like, oh, this is why, this is why. um I had a moment like that this morning where I was I emailed my son's coach because it's the end of the season and she asked for feedback. So I just wrote her this email like you are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much. But I also know that she just had a baby back in the spring and she's doing all of this coaching and teaching while having a little baby at home and she.
00:43:33
Speaker
She wrote back an email to me and said, I just looked at your website. This is incredible. I'm going to tell everyone I know about it. You know, and I wasn't even, it was just in the signature of my email, but it was moments like that where with fresh eyes of just hearing from a brand new mom, like, Oh, this is, this is the thing we've been waiting for. And what you have built Kelly is the thing that people need, um, in order to connect with their communities in order to feed their babies. Well, in order to feel good and I'm really grateful for you for doing it. Oh thank you. I know I've said this to you a million times but when I found out about Be Her Village I was like oh this is I've been touting this to families for 15 years like
00:44:15
Speaker
You don't need the stuff. I mean, you need a few things. You need onesies, you need bottles, you need all your pump and all that, but you don't need these big extravagant, I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone who loves gift registries and big baby showers, but you need support. And I've been saying to families like, what's your postpartum plan? Like you're having a baby in July and you have three dogs. Who's going to walk your dogs every day? Who's going to mow your lawn?
00:44:38
Speaker
um do Do you have a lactation consultant? Are you going to need pelvic floor work? I mean, all this stuff, right? A meal train, all this stuff. And so when I found out about Be Her Village, I was just like, and i that's why I just kind of stalked you and then made sure I met you because I was like, this woman is brilliant, but we're of the same mindset, right? Like it's it's
Accessing Resources and Conclusion
00:44:58
Speaker
support. and um You know, what i when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, my community just showed up and there was all sorts of things. But, you know, there was like, do you want a meal train? Like, no, I don't need a meal meal train. I'm one person like, you know, kind of wanted to give me things. And I was like, why don't you just, um you know, text me and see if I'm ready for a walk? Or I did let people bring juices because I really like juices.
00:45:19
Speaker
um But I had a friend who would come and make my bed because I couldn't physically like mo use my pecs to make a bed, simple thought little things like that. um And having people around me and knowing people who would drive me to doctor's appointments when I couldn't go, like those were the things I needed. um And that's what got me through. But also, when everyone showed up, I was like, I'm going to be OK.
00:45:41
Speaker
And so Be the Village is the same thing for for for families. And I don't think you can have enough support. Agreed. Absolutely agreed. and Kelly, where can people find you? How do they get to your app if somebody wants to donate or wants to be curious and poke around or somebody is ready for donor milk? How do they get in touch with you? How do they find each other?
00:46:03
Speaker
ShareTheDrop.com. We are a web-based app. I am not a mobile app. um You can create an account right there. It is free for anyone to create an account. and We never charge donors anything. ah Because we're still growing and we don't have donors everywhere, recipients create an account based on that zip code and they can see if there are local donors in their feed.
00:46:22
Speaker
I do have a monthly subscription um fee for them, but they don't ever have to pay that until they want to subscribe and talk to donors in their area. um I completely waive that fee if they're WIC or SNAP eligible. I want no barriers to entrance. I also have a feeding program called Feed It Forward where anyone anywhere can go to my website and purchase a subscription to be gifted to someone in particular. You can add it to your registry through Beaver Village.
00:46:49
Speaker
um or if you are just someone who has received donor milk in the past and you want to give back, you can go into that feed it forward. It's just a link on my website. um You can find me on all socials at sharethedrop dot.com. um And any i i'm I have got pretty thick skin after doing this for a long time. So anyone can send me feedback or any questions directly kelly at sharethedrop.com.
00:47:09
Speaker
um I just really, I'm in this stage where I built it. I'm very proud. It's working, but I just need to spread the word because um I, you know, I talk to a people a lot and they're like, Oh, this is great. I'm going to tell my sister, she lives in, you know, wherever. And I'm like, Oh, I don't know if we have donors there. But the more we talk about it, that it's an option if you have used informal milk before, even if it's not through me, share your story. I like to share stories. I like to talk to people. You can write a blog for me why you um participate in this. It's just kind of normalizing this process that's been going on forever. But yep, it's share the drop. Anyone can just reach out at any point. You can create an account within like a minute.
00:47:49
Speaker
Isn't Kelly just amazing? um I absolutely love her as a person, as a fellow birth worker, as somebody who's just so passionate and creating solutions to help new parents. ah All of her information, as we said, is in the notes. I also want you to go check out the feeding plan template that we put together for you.
00:48:11
Speaker
Um, it's really easy. You can just, uh, follow the link, drop your email and we'll send it to you. This is something that every new parent needs because you don't want to get caught off guard. There are things that you can do. That's why you're listening to this podcast. Um, there are things that you can do while you're pregnant, while you're preparing for your baby, that can make a huge difference later on. So check out, share the drop, check out be her village, add, share the drop to your be her village registry.
00:48:39
Speaker
um Go take a class and download our feeding plan so that you can be completely prepared for every scenario when you welcome your baby. Thank you so much for listening to the Be Her Village podcast. Until next time, I'm Caitlin Magraeus. Bye.