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Why Your Baby Needs Tummy Time and How to Do It Without Losing Your Mind with Dr. Mirav Newman DPT
87 Plays1 month ago
Tummy time-- let's talk about it! We hear about tummy time and how our babies need it everyday. But no one ever tells us why it's important and most babies HATE being put on their stomachs.
We invited Dr. Mirav Newman, a pediatric physical therapist, to do a deep dive into all things tummy time. Why is it important? How can we make it less miserable for our babies? How long should we do it each day?
In our conversation Mirav shares with us the dangers of keeping our babies in "containers" all day. How going from carseat to bouncer to stroller to swing is actually detrimental to our baby's development. And she shares an amazing new tummy time wedge that she invented called the TumTum that makes tummy time fun for the whole family.
Make sure you subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review so more moms can find us. Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Introduction to Be Her Village and Tummy Time
00:00:02
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Be Her Village podcast. I am your host, Caitlin McGreis. I'm a doula, a mother of three and the founder of Be Her Village, a gift registry for parents to get what they actually need when they're having a baby, which is mostly support, a little bit of stuff. So today we are talking about tummy time. We hear about tummy time a lot, right? Like you got to get your baby on the tummy, you got to do tummy time. But most of the time our babies hate tummy time and it turns into a big cry fest and it feels stressful for
What is Tummy Time?
00:00:33
Speaker
everyone. So I've invited Marab Newman, a pediatric physical therapist and the creator of the world's only tummy time wedge, the tum tum. She is going to talk to us all about what tummy time is, how we do it, why we do it, and how to do it in a way that is actually pleasant for the baby and the parents and everyone nearby. She's going to get into the recommendations and she's going to share with us her story of being a pediatric physical therapist, looking for a tool, and then actually creating it for herself and her practice. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Marav. So let's dive into it. What is tummy time? For like the person who maybe just, you know, peed on a stick and found out they're pregnant and is brand new to all of these things. What is tummy time? So tummy time is just the amount of time that your baby spends on their belly. So that can include like belly on chest, like laying on you, napping on you. That can include on the floor. That can include over your lap. That can include laying on their belly on different devices that make it easier for them. So it's just any time that your baby is laying on their belly.
Why is Tummy Time Important?
00:01:55
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be this like, oh, I'm pushing up and looking around. Like sometimes in my tummy time classes, I walk around, not sometimes, but always, I walk around and help babies first get acclimated to tummy time. And I'm like, do you have a PASI? And they're like, yes. I'm like, put the PASI in, push the head down, let baby rest their cheek down because it can just be a resting position. It doesn't have to be work. What is, why does it matter which way the baby's facing? Like, what is the importance behind tummy time? Why is there such a movement and a push and education about tummy time? Well, it's kind of a long story, but I think we have time. We do. That's why we're here, I think. Yeah. So back in the nineties, the back to sleep program was established to kind of reduce the incidence of SIDS, and that's been pretty successful. And we do not sleep our babies on their bellies anymore. However, what has happened is we forgot to just continue talking about how important it still is that a baby experiences time on their belly. And what has come through this back to sleep program is kind of like a sequela of events. Babies are spending all their time on their back or in containers. And we can talk more about containers in a minute. And they're not getting any tummy time because they're not comfortable on their belly. And research is really showing us that one of the big obstacles to tummy time is the stress of the parents and the fear of the parents. So what's happening is articles are being written about this is parents are nervous. I understand why, like you're nervous when you have a new baby, like they they're nervous to put their baby on their belly because they've been told, like, putting your baby on your belly causes SIDS. But what we haven't been really communicating well is that putting your baby on their belly while they're awake promotes proper development.
Impact of Baby Containers on Development
00:04:02
Speaker
And so for a baby to develop typically, it is important for them to develop their back muscles and their neck muscles and their posture muscles. And this happens during tummy time. So development kind of starts at the head and moves down towards the feet and it starts central and moves out towards the distal ends of musculature. And so when the baby's on their belly, we are promoting the development of that kind of movement of muscular strength. Like you just said, it's parental stress. And I just like, I just, when you said that, I just tuned into like this young, excited mother who's a little anxious, who's being told that if her baby's in this car seat, it's safe. If the baby's in the swing, it's happy. If the baby's in this bouncer, it's okay. And there's this feeling of like, I want the best for my baby. So I'm going to get all these things that throughout the day, my baby's in the best place. And it's like this unintended consequence of like well actually I don't know if it's unintended well maybe unintended on the side of the mother oh for sure yes like I actually want the best for my baby and it feels a little uncomfortable to like oh well just lay your baby on the ground and they might flail a little you know it's like somehow that doesn't feel like the. But what you're saying is actually that's really good for the baby's development. Yes, yes. Like when we're doing, when I'm doing tummy time classes, which is part of the reason that I feel so strongly about these tummy time classes and just getting more professionals, just getting in a community where you're helping new parents get babies on their tummy. It's such a simple class, but it's so great. We just spend time with baby on their belly and comfort them and just show you how to roll into the tummy and out of the tummy so that baby feels more comfortable. But yeah, on the floor is the best place for the baby. Really, it really is those containers. And that includes a car seat, a stroller, a bouncy seat, all the mamaroo, all the things. All the gadgets. All the things. I don't know all the names anymore. But they are all containers. And really, of course, you're going to put your baby in a car seat for a drive without say. Of course, you're going to put your baby in the stroller for a walk around the block. However, when your baby is home with you, the best place for them to be is on the floor. When you're at a friend's house, when you're at the park, put a blanket down on the grass, like just put your baby down on the floor and let them feel. When they're on their belly, they stretch out their muscles in the front, which is essential for good posture so that they don't end up this way. And then when they are stretching out their muscles in the front, they're strengthening the muscles in the back. And what we know from research, they've done studies now with EEG studies of just testing muscles. And when a baby is in a container in supine, like in that cradled position, like in a car seat, there are zero postural muscles on. Wow. And the postural muscles are on in tummy time. They are on when you sit the baby like on your lap and like just let them kind of bobble and hold themselves up. They're on. They're on when you wear your baby. Wearing your baby is great. They're just not on when they're strapped in. So if they're spending a lot of time in a container, they're missing out on freedom of movement. Wow. Okay.
Tummy Time Recommendations and Techniques
00:07:56
Speaker
So this is, that's huge. And I'm like such a fan and I'm sure you are as well, like of just that evidence that backs up the sort of gut instinct that we have and the things that we anecdotally see and feel and experience to have actual feedback that there's zero, zero is sort of alarming. That's like, there's no muscular firing, no development happening. No postural muscles. No postural muscles, right? Aren't really happening. Right. We still need muscles to exist, of course. Thank you for that correction. Yeah, yeah. Just your baby ceases to exist when they're in a car seat. It's amazing. Okay. So I wonder if you could, you just like touched on something I wanted to go a little deeper into, baby wearing. Like where baby wearing, is there a spectrum? Like is having your baby on the floor the same as having your baby in a vertical position? Is it, is it like just anything helps or, you know, like what would your ideal way of being? Because for me, just my personal experience as a mother, I didn't think about tummy time all that much, but I also didn't have all the gadgets. So I did have a lot of like, hey, you're going to lay on the floor on a little muslin blanket while I, you know, prep a meal. And then I'm throwing one on my back for a nap or, you know, there was like a lot of baby wearing happening. So where does that fall into the tummy time spectrum? I mean, I don't know that I can put it on a spectrum. Like, is it as good as on the floor on their tummy, but it's good. And it's not a container and feel free to wear your baby as much as you want. Like. I love that. I love that endorsement. That's wonderful. And relaxing. Wearing your baby is wonderful. So you're not doing damage. Like it's not damage. That's not a good choice of words, but you're not like harming your baby by, you know, that does, I guess doesn't count as a container because I feel like that's sometimes like floor certainly, but then you have sometimes the choice is stroller or bouncer or wearing your baby in a Tula and Ergo or wrap of some kind. So I prefer the wearing. I mean, those bouncer seats are like, they're really something because the babies really like them and they're very comfortable and they're very easy. But we are spending a lot of time with babies in those bouncers and really 10 minutes. That's really all you get in that bouncer is 10 minutes, maybe once a day. So you can wash up and do what you have to do. And people say to me, well, I have a dog. I have a toddler. I have this. I'm like, guess what? Take out the pack and play. Put it in the living room. Open it, just like we used to with playpans, and put your baby in the playpen where you can feel safe. And I just had a mother like last week say to me, Marav, I took you up on that suggestion. She's like, I feel so much better because my four-year-old was like smothering my baby and I was so stressed about it. And so what I did was I just took the pack and play. I opened it up. I put it in the living room. And now when I put the baby down, like my four-year-old can look at the baby. I know the baby's safe. The dog's not licking the baby's face. Like I can cook a meal and that baby is moving a little bit more because it's a firm surface. They can roll side to side. Like all those things are really important. Wow. Yeah. So one of my questions, and I feel like you almost just flipped the script entirely. One of the questions I have is what is the recommended amount of time for tummy time each day? But you actually just gave the opposite of like the baseline is tummy time and it should be no more than 10 minutes in a container. So can you speak a little bit about maybe what, is there a general recommendation? And then like, what's your actual recommendation? Yes, there is a recommendation that the official recommendation is 30 minutes of tummy time by six to seven weeks of age, which is pretty young. So 30 minutes cumulative. So really the day, 30, 30 minutes throughout the day of on tummy time of some sort, right? By seven weeks. Okay. So by, and what we know is that
00:12:10
Speaker
tummy time has a linear relationship with motor development so the so the more tummy time you do
00:12:20
Speaker
So it just keeps escalating. So after six weeks, if you get to 30 minutes, we're not done. We want you to continue going and really get Right. to 60 to 80 minutes by six months of age. Wow. Wow. That's a lot. It feels like a lot. It is a lot for people who are like, my baby only tolerates a minute in timing time it's hard it's really hard yeah they need support let's talk about that because I feel like we're we're living right here as like I don't I'm assuming you do not currently have an infant of your of your own I nor do I so we're both living in this like happy glossy like tummy time it's great just wear your baby and throw them on the floor it's all good you know but like let's talk about the reality like tummy time it's hard I feel like it causes anxiety sometimes just thinking about it because oh I should have an hour to an hour and a half of tummy time cool my kids screams until their beat red like how am I supposed to do that I'd rather them emotionally be whole than whatever supposed benefit I'm getting, right? It feels like a trade-off. I agree with you. Like I watched over and over in my practice with children with disabilities, in my practice with children with torticollis and plagiocephaly and flat spots and developmental delay, and in my practice with just well babies and just doing tummy time classes for the well baby community and just supporting the fourth trimester, which is like my huge passion. And I know yours too. I realized like we need an easier way. I can't just say do tummy time and walk away, right? Like that's not fair. It's hard for these babies because we are not sleeping them on their bellies. So a baby in the 90s was just put on their belly to sleep from the very first moment they came out and there didn't know any different. So I started experimenting with how can we make it easier for a baby that's six weeks old and hasn't been on their tummy, right? So hence comes the tum-tum. When we elevate the baby's head higher above their hips. So just like if you're doing a sit-up on an incline and someone puts you instead of flat on the floor, they put you on an incline, it's easier for you to come up, right? So it's the same thing for baby. When I put baby on incline, it's easier for them to hold up their head. And it pushes the tushy down and gives them that power to push up. And the nice thing about the tum tum is it's a gradual incline that over time I developed like what angle we wanted to do it at. It's budget friendly. It can just be on the floor. It's not a container. It's wipeable. It grows with baby for some other positions as well. And it's just like easy to like take
Promoting Baby Independence Through Tummy Time
00:15:22
Speaker
with you. Like I have urban moms in Brooklyn and they just like stuff it in the bottom of the stroller and off they go to their play date. And it's just, it's nice to have something that's going to help make tummy time easier. You still have to keep, stay on the floor with the baby. Like put the baby on the tum-tum, let them get comfortable. One cheek, then the other cheek, put a pass in, Pat them on their tushy. Rub their back. Like, you're okay, baby. Like, they don't want to feel stuck there. But within just one or two sessions of that, they start being like, oh, wow, this is easier. I'm not stuck. I can pick up my head. And it becomes so much less stressful. I love that. Also, doing some classes, doing a tum tum class that's in your neighborhood is really, really nice to have the support of a professional to just help you through if you're having a hard time. And, you know, not waiting. It's not a wait and see game. If your baby is struggling, like get help right away. Like don't wait. It's not going to just get better. And then the other thing is putting your baby on their belly every time you put them down first. So sometimes people will put their baby down and they'll let them play in those gyms or whatever on their back, which is fine, but that's not everything. That should be last because it's easy and it's fun. Put them on their belly first with like a lot of visual stimulation, vision drives movement. So something in front, their toddler, you know, sibling jumping in front of them, a music toy, your face, whatever, your partner's face, whatever it has to be so that they look up and realize that, oh, this is how I'm going to move. This is how they're going to move. It's going to give them independence. So essentially the baby will love it because they'll be like, oh, wow. Yes, I needed this. Thank you. I'm free. I love this. And, you know, I think there's one of the traps I fell into as a new mom. And it has taken me a decade or more to figure out. But, like, I felt like there was this call to, like, attachment parenting and, you know, like, wanting to be super responsive. That's why I was baby wearing and breastfeeding and co-saving all the things. And there was this, this sense of if my baby's crying, I need to fix it. Right. And maybe my instinct was, let me pick you up. Like you're not having a time to pick you up. And I think that part of what I'm hearing from you is like, if your baby's crying, give them a cool musical toy to look at. If your baby's crying because they're flat and they're feeling stuck and panicked or frustrated, then give them a little tum-tum wedge and just like help them out a little bit. But there's this like feeling of we don't have to abandon the whole thing because there's a little bit of discomfort. And, you know, as a parent of some older children now, I have a middle schooler. I'm like, actually, that's going to build resilience. And maybe we should be talking also about like some resilience, even in newborns, this, this sense of like, hey, you might be a little uncomfortable, but like, we're going to keep at this. And wow, there's something really cool on the other side. And I'm right here with you on the floor and I'm rubbing your back and I'm kissing your cheek. I'm not walking away from you and leaving you stranded on an island. I'm just going to help you. This is hard for you. But in 10 minutes, it's not going to be hard anymore. Like babies change so quickly. And sometimes we just have to get over that hump. Sometimes in my classes, I like, you know, I reminisce because I also have older kids and I'm like, like well, were you working on like rolling or tummy time or whatever? And the parents are like pulling the arm out for them right away after they do the rolling. And I'm like, no, no, no. Let them try to pull their arm out on their own. And I'm like, this is what happens when your child comes home from college. And they're like, mom, can you do my laundry for me? And you're like you you should probably try to do your own the answer is no no I can I can't help you get your arm out and I can't help you do your laundry kind of thing like do I want to do his laundry I totally want to do his laundry and fold it perfect and like make it smell great and have it not be wrinkled but it's like like the same thing as pulling the arm out for the baby. It's maybe not exactly the same, but it's similar. It's parenting's hard. And sometimes we need to realize that we can support and facilitate and be there side by side without completely doing it for baby. And the thing is babies learn through motor learning, right? And so in order to motor learn a task, baby has to initiate the task, baby has to complete the task, and baby has to have success at the end of the task. So if you are moving your baby through every task, they might actually be delayed because you're doing too much. And it's so easy to do too much for them because they're so cute and yummy. And all you want to do is do too much for them. But sometimes if you're struggling with tummy time and you come to me and say, my baby's not rolling, we need to look at how are we helping baby roll and can we do less and just set them up for success and then help them finish the roll with a successful experience rather than doing the whole thing for them. Oh, my goodness You are just. You are speaking such truth into this world. And I'm thinking. I'm thinking about. And this is not evidence based. I would love to see evidence on this. But like from my pure observation of myself. And almost everyone I know. First babies are like. First babies get coddled so much. Right. We're like making sure they can roll. We have their chart. I had like on my phone like a note of like how many words he had and all this second babies you're so busy dealing with your first that they they start rolling they start talking they start doing things because they sort of have to figure it out yeah on their own totally yeah babies forget it oh my god they're between like us just and everyone that's listening to this, there were several times where my third baby would like toddle into the room and I was like, oh my God, I totally forgot that you were in the house. That poor third baby. But they are, they end up being more resilient, more independent. And it's hard because the, that maternal instinct to help your baby is so strong. And it's almost like we need a reframe of what are we helping them with? Are we helping them with like catch a fish or learn to fish? Right. It's like, it's that it's always once for you, or you can learn how to get through something with me right here here, loving on you. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I love the tum tum. I also advocate for like just putting baby on your chest for tummy time, contact naps on your chest. You know, doing, you can do tummy time on your lap where the baby's head is a little elevated and the legs are falling down a little bit more. All that stuff. It's just it's just really great. Turning your baby over onto their belly after every diaper change before you get them dressed so that they can feel like the skin, like have that naked time with their skin, like their belly skin, like touching a surface, I think is also really,
Creating the Tum-Tum Wedge
00:23:12
Speaker
really helpful. Like just making it part of their repertoire rather than just flat on the ground looking at a gym. Right. So I want to just like ask you a little bit more about how the tum tum came to be because I just as a beginning, I personally, one of my absolute favorite things about the tum tum is the color choices that you guys have because it's so neutral and relaxing and it doesn't look like a baby thing. I personally just like a pet peeve. It's just like all the bright colors and plastic. And like, you can like look at your, I used to hide all my baby stuff. Like, and I'm not like, I don't think I'm like somebody who cares that much what my house looks like, but like I would hide all my baby things like in a coffee table with a cabinet underneath, like just so that at the end of the day, when the kids went to bed, I could sort of reclaim my space. And I feel like the tum-tum causes that feeling of relaxation just from the get-go. But I want to know, you're a pediatric physical therapist, right? So like you would know, you know, looking at these clients that have babies who are struggling to do tummy time, you would know like, hey, here's the product I recommend. So I'm wondering what it looked like for you on the product scape. Like what was in the stores, if anything, that caused you to go make your own? There's really not anything. I mean, there's like some pillows that exist that people use, but they're soft. And the thing with the tum tum is it's firm. And so think of yourself, if you're trying to push up on a bean bag, how much harder it is for you if rather than the floor, right? Like, so they need a firm surface. And so there really wasn't anything. I was literally like making stuff. I was like rolling towels and wrapping them in duct tape so they would be firm. That's quite a visual. And then I was taking books and like, like doing like two books at a time. So one book here and one book here to create like a thing. So it would be firm. I was using like these like slant board things that are meant for stretching your feet that were like, you know, this weird, ugly, disgusting foam. So yeah, I was like, this is crazy. This is absolutely crazy. All these things that exist and they're actually not keeping in mind babies development. Like they're not facilitating and helping families and babies. Like they're making things worse. Like the, and we can kind of finish that topic about how the time time came about, but that's how it came about.
Recognizing Torticollis and Plagiocephaly
00:26:02
Speaker
And I was doing these classes at the time at the nesting place. And, you know, Laura and Jackie were like, this wedge thing, like, like, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, yeah, I'd love to make one. I've been wanting to, like, my husband knows, like, 20 years ago, I was like, you know what we should do? We should invent a thing called the wedgie. And he was like, terrible name. So maybe not the marketing, maybe you'll stick with the science. One of the things that we didn't really touch upon Caitlin, and that we should maybe mention is just like what to look for, and when to seek like professional help if you're struggling. And I think that's really important, because the incidence of torticollis and plagiocephaly is so high. So torticollis is when your baby only wants to look to one side or has a preference that looks to one side. And plagiocephaly is when the head becomes, has a flat spot. And we're just seeing so much increase in that because babies, again, they're stuck on their back. And so mostly when babies come out of in utero, they're not symmetrical. They're usually like this or they're like this from being squished up in utero. And what used to be is we would put the baby on their belly and one nap would be on the right cheek and the next nap would be on the left cheek. And a week later, you'd have a symmetrical stretched out baby. And we didn't even know we were stretching them out. Today, what's happening is we're taking a baby. They come out like this. We're wrapping them up. We're sticking them on their back and they stay there. And what happens is that head, that spot is just getting flat and you're just getting all these deformities in the head. And next thing you know, you need a helmet. So the recommendation now is anytime, anytime you see an asymmetry, a referral to a pediatric physical therapist is pretty much immediately prompted. So it used to be we would wait this, that that, and the other, but we're not waiting anymore because intervention under four months is considered almost like a 99% prognosis of complete resolve, whereas over four months is a completely different story. So we really need to be aware when you're seeing a flat spot, when you're seeing some changes in the forehead, when you notice that your baby only wants to look to one side, seek some professional help and really consider like, how much tummy time am I doing? How strong is my baby? Because, you know, and I can go on and on and on about. Here's a question. Would for breastfeeding parents, would that be something that you might notice? Like baby is latching really well and easily and turning well on one side and maybe just not doing the trick on the other. Is that one of the things to sort of like think through? Yes,
Resources for Parents
00:29:04
Speaker
it is. There's a sided problem. Okay. Yeah, there's a sided problem. And you can do your nursing and sideline and put that tum tum behind you. So that baby there's some, some, some pictures of that online on Instagram. And also on, we have like some videos on YouTube to help, but you can put the tum tum behind you so that your baby can be belly to belly, skin to skin with you without having all that twisting so that you can get both sides nice and symmetrical when you're nursing. Wow. That's amazing. I'm so glad you brought that up because it really, like I saw that even in the 12 years since I've been a mother, like the increase in in in children having issues. And I sometimes I think the worst for me is when I see it, you see like a flatheaded baby and they don't have the helmet on. They don't. And it's like, oh, I wonder if anyone has intervened there. I like to think that they absolutely have and they're completely on top of it. But it's definitely something that has come with this shift. I mean, when I was a student, I think, and which I don't want to date myself, but I will, in the 90s, when I was a new therapist and I was a PT student, I think I saw one case of torticollis. One case. It was like nobody had torticollis. It was not a thing. Today, Caitlin, when I tell you that I have five babies on my caseload with torticollis and plagiocephaly, I get four new referrals a day. It is everyone. Wow. It is. And it has a lot to do with containers. It has a lot to do with swaddling baby for a really long time, weighted blankets, all the things that we're adding. And baby really needs to be able to move freely and be stretching with their, you know, with their cheek down on the floor and tummy time. Wow. All right. So you heard it from Marav herself, skip the containers, skip the bouncers and the swings and all the things, add the tum tum and add some tummy time classes to your gift registry and like get the things you and your baby actually need for the experience to be better. Right. For like, for things to feel easier and more joyful and less stressful for everybody. And it's joyful to watch your baby, like just enjoy to play on the floor. It feels good. How can people find the tum tum and how can people find you and your classes? What's the next step? So I teach my classes at the nesting place. So you can look that up. The tum tum is online and on Amazon at tumtumusa.com. You can purchase. We have four beautiful colors. And you can find me for physical therapy advice at dynamic solutions therapy dot com. That's my private practice. I practice in person in Brooklyn, New York. I also offer free 10 to 15 minute consults on Zoom with the purchase of a tum tum if you're struggling. Because I feel that strongly about, I don't want you to buy the tum tum and not have success and be like, this didn't help me. I don't know what to do. My baby's still crying. Like I can literally help you and show you how to use it successfully in 10 minutes. It's that easy. So if you're really struggling, you can go on to the site at 10timeusa.com and book a 10 minute Zoom with me. Well, that is spectacular. I'm so excited. All of those links will be in our show notes so everybody can find them really, really easily. Thank you so much, Marav. You are spectacular and I'm so grateful for you. Thank you. Bye.
Episode Reflection and Parenting Support
00:33:05
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening to our conversation. Marav is just such a breath of fresh air and her information is so good and so eye-opening. I mean, I'm a doula for 10 plus years. I'm a mother of three and I still feel like I just learned so much about tummy time and why it's important and why we need to prioritize it. I don't know that I had the full history of the back to sleep movement being this thing that caused so many issues, so many health issues for our babies. And it's not just the back to sleep movement. That sounds like where it started, but everything that we are working for with Be Her Village, all of this push towards, we need support, we need funds, we need doulas, we need lactation care, we need tummy time classes, we need physical therapists for our pelvic floor, for our babies, we need access to this quote unquote village. That is what we need as we prep for our babies. And what we're often told by the big retailers and these online giants is you need stuff. You need the swing. You need the latest gadget. You need the snoo. You know, you need this special swaddle. You need all these things in your home, mostly made of plastic and with all kinds of promises.
00:34:25
Speaker
And the truth is some of those things, and a lot of them, as you just heard on this podcast, used collectively can actually do harm. And that's sort of a scary, fear-mongery thing to say, but it's also the truth. There is something that we're getting very wrong about how we prepare for parenthood. And I'm so excited to have brought Marav on here because she underlined for me in a really big way with evidence why we need Be Your Village, why we need to prepare better for parenthood, because the the current status of adding 12 different baby containers to your baby registry and then expecting everything to be okay and easy is actually not the truth at all. What you need is people like Marav surrounding you. You need classes with other moms learning how to care for your baby. You need the tummy tum wedge so that you can have more joyful tummy time with your babies. Like you need the people, not the things. And Merav is one of those people. And that was so cool to listen to. So anyway, I could go on and on about this. ah Check out the show notes. Everything that you need is in there, including Merav's tummy time download. Do not forget to check that out. And thank you so much for listening to the Be Your Village podcast. We are incredibly grateful for you all.