Transcript
Speaker: And I think that's why I resonated with your podcast concept so much, because I do think that we can be agents for our own dreams to make them happen.
Speaker: And I think often they feel like these faraway things that we have to do X, Y, and Z before we can even think about going for that.
Speaker: I see that a lot in the work I do now as an Artist's Way facilitator.
Speaker: A lot of people think they have to hit a certain threshold, you know, before they can call themselves a writer.
Speaker: Like, oh, you know, I have to be published before I can own this title of writer.
Speaker: You know, but I believe if you write, therefore you are a writer.
Speaker: Hi, I'm Christy Winfrey, and I'm so excited you're here with me today.
Speaker: Welcome to the Not Just a Daydream podcast.
Speaker: yourself daydreaming about the life you wish you had?
Speaker: Yeah, me too.
Speaker: Well, for many years, I felt stuck and I felt those dreams would only ever be just daydreams.
Speaker: Today, I now run a thriving six-figure virtual business that allows me to have the freedom to work and live from anywhere.
Speaker: I also teach others how to grow and operate a successful TC business with their very own.
Speaker: If you're looking for inspiration, motivation, and application, then this is the podcast for you.
Speaker: In here, we discuss business, dreams, goals, and everything in between.
Speaker: Welcome to the Not Just a Daydream podcast.
Speaker: Hey, y'all, I am so excited for you to hear this episode today.
Speaker: Today, I'm interviewing Jen Jones Donatelli, and she has such a fascinating story of actually working in Hollywood with some very big name actors and people that you will have heard their name.
Speaker: But the podcast is even more exciting just because...
Speaker: It's really a story of entrepreneurship and just having the willingness to keep pursuing your dreams and not letting the word no get in the way.
Speaker: And also just following the path that is leading you and not necessarily the one that you ever envisioned.
Speaker: So I'm so excited for you to listen into this episode.
Speaker: Let's get started.
Speaker: So welcome to the show, Jen.
Speaker: Thanks, Christy.
Speaker: I'm excited to be here with you.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm super excited for you to be here as well.
Speaker: And you have such a cool, fascinating story about your journey through Hollywood.
Speaker: So I'm gonna let you take it away and share that story.
Speaker: Yeah, well, when I saw, you know, the concept of your podcast, I just related to it so much because I feel like a lot of my career and my life really has been about
Speaker: chasing dreams.
Speaker: And so when you said you wanted to talk about it, I was all in.
Speaker: So awesome.
Speaker: I guess it started when I was a kid.
Speaker: I was super into just kind of like creative endeavors.
Speaker: You know, I used to write little mini plays and novels and play like role playing games, you know, like use my imagination.
Speaker: And one of the things I used to do, and this is so cheesy, but I had a game that I would play with my friends called Happy Hollywood and Friends.
Speaker: Oh, that's fine.
Speaker: Apparently I owned a modeling agency in this game.
Speaker: And what I think about what I think back then is like, I was always fascinated by like the glamour and the glitz and kind of that like Hollywood lifestyle and the entertainment industry.
Speaker: But I grew up in Ohio, so I was nowhere near, you know, near that physically, but it always felt like kind of part of my sensibility growing up.
Speaker: And so I,
Speaker: when I went to college, I actually studied magazine journalism.
Speaker: And after I graduated from Ohio university, I moved out to Chicago and it was kind of weird.
Speaker: Like my first job I took was kind of like a sales and marketing job at an advertising firm.
Speaker: So it was kind of creativity adjacent, but I was really mostly an admin, you know?
Speaker: And so I did that for about a year.
Speaker: And then I took a job where I was the event planner for a local singles club.
Speaker: Oh, that's cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I lasted about six months of the job and it was actually super fun.
Speaker: Like my job was to plan events like skydiving and theater out.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Kayaking and going to fireworks shows and basically experiencing kind of all Chicago had to offer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I actually got fired.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I my boss just.
Speaker: She didn't think I was the right fit and I was devastated.
Speaker: Yeah, I was totally, you know, blindsided by when I got fired.
Speaker: Oh, gosh.
Speaker: I think that's the only job I've been fired from.
Speaker: But I was like fresh out of school, you know, only about a year out of school.
Speaker: And I was just like, what am I going to do now?
Speaker: And so I signed up with a temp agency and they started sending me out on jobs.
Speaker: And the first job I got was I was a secretary for a bug spray company on Michigan Avenue, funny enough, in Chicago.
Speaker: And it was right across from the NBC tower.
Speaker: And every day I would stare out the window at the NBC tower.
Speaker: And I would think like, that's where I want to work.
Speaker: That's where I want to work.
Speaker: And I would just stare at the peacock and think that's where I want to be.
Speaker: And so one day I was riding the bus to work and I was reading the Chicago Reader newspaper.
Speaker: And I saw that they were hiring a website coordinator at the Jenny Jones show.
Speaker: Oh, very cool.
Speaker: So I don't remember that show from back in the day.
Speaker: Yeah, I do.
Speaker: I don't remember it well, but I do remember it.
Speaker: I do remember her name and her being on TV.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So it was a nationally syndicated talk show.
Speaker: It was kind of in the heyday of talk shows.
Speaker: In fact, her soundstage was right next to Jerry Springer's soundstage.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: And Oprah was like right down the road, you know, in the West Loop.
Speaker: That's super cool.
Speaker: And like Sally Jesse Raphael and Maury Povich, you know, all it was like the end of the 90s or the beginning of the 2000s when talk shows were all the rage, you know, so.
Speaker: I was like, I want this job.
Speaker: And so I was like moving mountains, like try to get my resume in front of the right person.
Speaker: And I ended up getting an interview and I got the job.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: As the website coordinator of the Jenny Jones show.
Speaker: And what was really cool about it was,
Speaker: It was basically about using my journalism skills in a TV production environment.
Speaker: So as a website coordinator, you know, I was writing show recaps.
Speaker: I was on set taking photos.
Speaker: You know, I was interviewing the musical guests that would come on the show.
Speaker: And I was just in such a, like, vibrant, creative, fun environment.
Speaker: And it was a total game changer.
Speaker: And I was like, I absolutely love this.
Speaker: This is what I want to do with my career.
Speaker: You know, it was...
Speaker: It was the best job I've ever had.
Speaker: And Jenny is an amazing, she was an amazing boss, you know, very generous.
Speaker: She took us all to Cancun for 10 days.
Speaker: She, it was, it was a great place to work.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: I feel like I got off track there for a minute, but I fell in love.
Speaker: Like it was kind of like me realizing, you know, those dreams of what would it be like, you know, to work in the entertainment industry.
Speaker: And I wanted more.
Speaker: I decided after working there, after I'd been there for about two and a half years, I decided that I wanted to move out to LA and just explore what was out there in the entertainment industry.
Speaker: Because even though Chicago did have several talk shows and such, most of the TV and film production was happening in LA.
Speaker: So a week after September 11th, 2001, so one week, I got on the plane and I flew out to LA and moved out there.
Speaker: I bet that was a little scary.
Speaker: It was actually.
Speaker: The industry, the production industry was very quiet at that time.
Speaker: Everyone was rocked by what had happened on September 11th.
Speaker: And there had been a plane of people from LA that was part of what happened.
Speaker: So the industry was very quiet and it was actually really hard to find a job.
Speaker: So I started kind of doing odd jobs.
Speaker: I was extra on different TV shows.
Speaker: I became a temp again.
Speaker: So I was like working in different LA offices and movie studios just as a temp.
Speaker: I was just trying to really make ends meet.
Speaker: And so I wanted to work in film and TV.
Speaker: So I started making hundreds of phone calls every day.
Speaker: I'm not kidding.
Speaker: There was like a newsletter called Production Weekly, and it listed all the TV and film, you know, things that were happening that were in current production.
Speaker: So I'd make all these calls every day.
Speaker: Do you need a production assistant?
Speaker: Do you need a production assistant?
Speaker: And very few of the calls went anywhere.
Speaker: But after I had made probably about 300 calls, I had two that actually were fruitful.
Speaker: So one of the people that I connected with ended up becoming a friend and a mentor, even though he didn't hire me.
Speaker: And the other person was like, oh, yeah, we're starting on this TV movie for Fox next week.
Speaker: Are you available?
Speaker: to be a day player, which I didn't even know what that meant back then.
Speaker: But it was basically like I'd be in the office for five days helping out.
Speaker: So my first job was on this movie called Big Shot, which was like a TV movie, I think that was shown on Fox.
Speaker: And it was kind of like unremarkable, you know, it was like a production assistant gopher.
Speaker: But that job led to I think my next three or four gigs that I got in Hollywood.
Speaker: And what I learned was the same people kind of
Speaker: travel together.
Speaker: So once you get in with a group, your work prospects start to grow.
Speaker: And so the first big job I had was on the movie Daredevil with Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner.
Speaker: And that was all in.
Speaker: I think it was an eight or nine month shoot.
Speaker: And we were working 16 to 18 hour days.
Speaker: It was really intense.
Speaker: It was a Marvel movie.
Speaker: So it was...
Speaker: It was like a crash course on like, this is what Hollywood is all about.
Speaker: And I remember it was kind of before really the digital age, which I know I sound so old, but like back then, like dailies weren't digital.
Speaker: It was actually like film reels.
Speaker: So as a production, you know, assistant at the end, end of the totem pole,
Speaker: I was delivering dailies to Ben Affleck's house or delivering dailies to the producers in Santa Monica.
Speaker: I was learning my way around LA, driving around.
Speaker: It was such an adventure.
Speaker: And on the last day of production, the office gave me what we call a wrap gift.
Speaker: They gave me a little gift to say thank you for everything you've done in the office.
Speaker: And the gift was a book called The Artist's Way.
Speaker: I think I've heard of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've heard of it, but I haven't read it.
Speaker: So I had never heard of it at that point either.
Speaker: But as you'll see, as I continue my story, it ended up becoming a really integral part of my life.
Speaker: And when I look back now, that gift means so much to me because it feels like they saw my creative potential.
Speaker: Like even though I was doing things like getting coffee and making copies and driving all over creation, you know, delivering things to people.
Speaker: that gift is probably one of the most meaningful gifts I've ever received.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: So, um, yeah, I kept working in entertainment after that.
Speaker: Um, I was a red carpet reporter at E!
Speaker: Online for about a year.
Speaker: I, it was kind of interesting because the group of people I worked with on the Jenny Jones show all ended up moving out to LA for the most part in like 2003 because the Jenny Jones show had been canceled and the same company was starting up the Sharon Osbourne show.
Speaker: So everyone had an opportunity to start on that show.
Speaker: And I ended up becoming the website producer on that show.
Speaker: So I was like back into the talk show world and
Speaker: And that was super fun.
Speaker: So I did that for a year and then it got canceled.
Speaker: And then I worked on another telepictures talk show, which also got canceled after a year.
Speaker: But here's here's this was kind of like a pivotal moment when that show got canceled, because the whole time I was working in film and TV, that was a period of about six years, I would say six, seven years.
Speaker: I was also kind of honoring my magazine journalism degree by freelance writing.
Speaker: So I had started, you know, writing, having a side hustle of writing articles for magazines and websites.
Speaker: And that actually started at the Jenny Jones show, believe it or not, because we used to have musical guests on the show.
Speaker: And these are kind of people that are still big today.
Speaker: It was like Ludacris, Nelly.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: You know, people that we know who they are when they were... Little Wayne.
Speaker: Like, I interviewed Little Wayne when he was like 16 years old.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: So that was when they were first breaking, you know, and that was part of my job.
Speaker: So I actually ended up using one of those interviews and selling it to a music magazine.
Speaker: And that was how I got started freelance writing.
Speaker: And so the reason I'm sharing this is when the show I was working on got canceled in 2005, I was super busy with all this writing work.
Speaker: You know, I had a lot of assignments and articles.
Speaker: I was even writing books by that point because, and forgive me if I'm going off on tangents here.
Speaker: No, I'm getting so many lessons.
Speaker: And so from everything you're saying, so I'm writing them down.
Speaker: So we can recap here in a minute.
Speaker: Oh, great.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So long story short, I have a background in dance and cheerleading.
Speaker: And I had started writing for this family of magazines, Dance Spirit Magazine, American Cheerleader, Cheer Biz News.
Speaker: I was writing for kind of this family of 10 different publications that focused on dance and cheer.
Speaker: And through that, I was approached by a publisher who was looking for a writer to do a six book nonfiction series on cheerleading for young girls.
Speaker: And
Speaker: And so he had found my work in American Cheerleader and he wanted to talk about this project.
Speaker: This was when I was working at the Sharon Osbourne show.
Speaker: And I took on that project and that led to me working with this publisher for about, I would say, at least 10 years, executing different book projects for them.
Speaker: So at first I was doing this on the side of my full time work.
Speaker: And so when this show got canceled in 2005, I had like a couple book projects I was working on.
Speaker: I had a lot of magazine articles.
Speaker: And so I thought, okay, I'll just take a pause for the summer.
Speaker: I'll work on these book projects and then I'll look for another full-time job at entertainment.
Speaker: But for whatever reason, I never went back.
Speaker: I ended up becoming a full-time freelance writer and editor that year.
Speaker: It wasn't really by choice or intention.
Speaker: It was just kind of a detour that...
Speaker: ended up taking me in a new direction.
Speaker: You know, so at that point, I started, I became self employed.
Speaker: And I started my business creative groove, which I still have today, but it's taken many different shapes over the years.
Speaker: At that time, it was just kind of what I called my freelance writing business.
Speaker: So like my portfolio was like called creative groove.
Speaker: And I had all the articles I was writing.
Speaker: But as time went on, I started really kind of exploring a lot of different passions and interests through my freelance writing work.
Speaker: So I had a lot of different beats.
Speaker: You know, I was still writing for the dance and cheerleading magazines.
Speaker: I started doing travel writing.
Speaker: So I got to go to many different places in California, Mexico, California.
Speaker: I think it was mostly well and different states.
Speaker: So it was mostly the US and Mexico.
Speaker: But, you know, I was going on these press junkets to explore different destinations and write about them.
Speaker: I started doing food and dining coverage for LA Confidential magazine.
Speaker: So I had two columns in that magazine.
Speaker: And I got to interview, you know, chefs like Thomas Keller and Wolfgang Puck.
Speaker: It was it was so fulfilling.
Speaker: I absolutely loved it.
Speaker: One of the things I talk about as a creative coach is being a multi-potentialite, someone who has lots of different interests, lots of different pursuits, and wants to really incorporate them all into their work.
Speaker: And that was when I was kind of coming into my identity, you know, as what we would call a multi-potentialite, like taking on lots of different things.
Speaker: You know, I was doing photography, I was doing writing, I was doing editing, and I was loving every minute of it, you know.
Speaker: And so I did that for many years.
Speaker: And then side note, one of my other freelance jobs I had was I ended up working with my alma mater, Ohio University, to become the co-director of the Ohio and LA program, which was really cool because it brought me back to the entertainment industry.
Speaker: So each semester, we'd have a group of students come out to LA, and we would help them get internships, help them find mentors, and we would do weekly excursions.
Speaker: So we would go to the Warner Brothers studio, or we'd go inside a recording studio.
Speaker: We got to, you know, be inside the studio where the Beach Boys recorded pet sounds.
Speaker: You know, we would go to Jim Henson's studio or we would go to Nickelodeon or, you know, we it was really cool because we were getting access to share with the students to things that they would never otherwise be able to experience.
Speaker: And I loved it, you know, because, again, it was like fulfilling that part of me that just lights up, you know, at the idea of.
Speaker: media and entertainment and that whole like Hollywood vibe, you know?
Speaker: And so I was doing all those things.
Speaker: And then in 2017, I, my husband and I had had young twins.
Speaker: Our twins were about two years old at that point.
Speaker: And we decided that we wanted to move back to Cleveland from Los Angeles because I
Speaker: You know, our parents are here and he and my husband and I were both raised in the Midwest.
Speaker: So we wanted to kind of give them that upbringing.
Speaker: So it was very, very difficult to leave L.A.
Speaker: But we did move back to L.A.
Speaker: and I'm sorry, move back to Cleveland in December 2017.
Speaker: I don't know if I should pause here or.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So I can hear your passion for everything and the way you're talking about it and it just lights me up and I'm hoping that it's inspiring those who are listening, you know, and I mean, I wrote down like five things I got out of that.
Speaker: So I think whenever you were saying that you were working for that bug company and you were just staring at the NBC and
Speaker: power, like you truly had a vision for your, for your life and your career.
Speaker: And, and you were saying like, I want to work there and just kept staring at it every day.
Speaker: I think that's so important that people think about like what it is that they want and they, and they truly put that focus on it and go after it.
Speaker: And so, and you know, with what you were currently doing in that job may not have said that it would translate over to the job you're applying for.
Speaker: Right now your, your degree did.
Speaker: But you still had the courage to go after that.
Speaker: And so I think that's so empowering too.
Speaker: Yeah, I truly believe, I guess I call it active manifestation.
Speaker: I don't believe so much in the law of attraction.
Speaker: I think when you really set your sights on something specific, and I have a lot of stories like this, you can plug into an existing opportunity and make that happen for yourself with a combination of
Speaker: you know, networking, intentional research and being proactive and also just believing in yourself that you can do it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, and I've had that happen again and again in my career.
Speaker: And I have a couple of stories.
Speaker: I know we've talked about creating your own opportunities.
Speaker: That's been a big recurrent theme through my career.
Speaker: And actually, when I moved back to Cleveland, that's one example of that, because I
Speaker: We had been talking for about five years about moving back, you know, before we finally did.
Speaker: And I was kind of like, what am I going to do professionally there?
Speaker: Because, you know, again, I was so energized by the creative fuel of LA, you know, and I was like, what am I going to do when I go back to Cleveland?
Speaker: And I'd started reading this publication called Freshwater Cleveland that kind of covers all the movers and shakers of Cleveland, the different neighborhoods, what's new and exciting in Cleveland.
Speaker: And I had started reading it
Speaker: kind of just as a way of researching, like learning more about the city for when we were going to move back eventually.
Speaker: I kept telling myself, like, if we move back, I want to be the editor of this publication.
Speaker: You know, like I was like, it's a long shot because they only had a couple people.
Speaker: First of all, no one was even full time.
Speaker: There was just a couple part time editors running this publication.
Speaker: And so the year of 2017, the job of the managing editor came open.
Speaker: And at that point, I knew we were moving back that year.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, how do I get them to hire me when I don't even live in Cleveland?
Speaker: So I was like, okay, I'm applying for this.
Speaker: So I applied for the job.
Speaker: Totally didn't hear anything.
Speaker: And I was like, no, I'm not letting this pass me by.
Speaker: Because for years, I've been thinking this is the job that I want when I go back to Cleveland.
Speaker: So I did some research.
Speaker: And I saw that the current editor actually went to my college.
Speaker: And so I was like, I'm going to reach the woman who was leaving the job.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm going to reach out to her and just see if she can maybe elevate my resume to be seen.
Speaker: So I reached out, I introduced myself.
Speaker: I said, I know you don't know me, but if you're willing to go out on a limb, you know, I'm a fellow Bobcat journalism grad.
Speaker: I've been following this publication for a long time and I'd love to take over the reins for you.
Speaker: And that day I heard from the publisher, I had an interview the next day and I got the job.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: I don't even live in LA or Cleveland yet.
Speaker: And so I actually did the job remotely for about four months before I even got to Cleveland.
Speaker: And then once I got here, it was a real game changer because it really helped me
Speaker: hit the ground running and meet all the people making moves in Cleveland and learn about what's happening here now.
Speaker: And I absolutely loved it.
Speaker: So that's awesome.
Speaker: I true.
Speaker: I have a lot of stories like that.
Speaker: Like even when I became a red carpet reporter, kind of the same thing.
Speaker: I had my eyes on a very specific job and through kind of that active networking, I was able to land it, you know?
Speaker: And so even with one of the books I wrote,
Speaker: Long story short, like I said, I'd been writing... I was a work-for-hire author, basically.
Speaker: So what that means is you work with a publisher, you're freelance.
Speaker: It's almost like... It's just like being a freelance magazine writer, except it's a much bigger scope of the project.
Speaker: And they basically assign you book projects that they're looking to be part of their slate that year.
Speaker: So I was working with two different publishers in that regard.
Speaker: And I knew I wanted to do more.
Speaker: So there was one day where I was reading a forum.
Speaker: This was probably in like 2007, 2008.
Speaker: I was reading this forum about an author named Paula Danziger.
Speaker: I don't know if you've read any of her books, but she wrote The Cat Ate My Gym Suit.
Speaker: And she was kind of like a big YA author in the 80s.
Speaker: And I was a fan of hers.
Speaker: And one of the women who commented on the forum after she passed said that she had written a biography of Paula Danziger for a YA publisher.
Speaker: And it was for a series called Authors, Teens, Love.
Speaker: And I was like, I would absolutely love to be an author for this series because I'm a huge YA buff.
Speaker: And so I reached out to the woman on the forum.
Speaker: And again, I said, you know, I know you don't know me, but
Speaker: But I'm a freelance writer and author.
Speaker: I live in Los Angeles.
Speaker: You know, I'm a big YA buff.
Speaker: If you would be willing to take a chance and just share your editor's information with me, I would love to reach out and just introduce myself to see if they need more authors.
Speaker: Now, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker: I think a lot of people who are freelance writers and, you know, copywriters and such, they can be
Speaker: protective of their Rolodex because like, you don't necessarily want to give your, you know, your context to people you don't know because that's what they spend a lot.
Speaker: So I was not expecting a response, but she was incredibly generous.
Speaker: And she's like, yeah, here's the person reach out, you know, let me know how it goes.
Speaker: So I sent an email to this man, David Torciello, probably the next day.
Speaker: And I just, I said, I, you know, I saw you have this series called authors, teens, love,
Speaker: here's a list of some of my favorite YA authors.
Speaker: You know, I, if you ever need contractors, you know, to be part of this project, please let me know.
Speaker: And the first person I listed was Judy bloom on my list.
Speaker: And he writes back and he's like, we're actually planning one on Judy bloom.
Speaker: Um, do you want to talk?
Speaker: And so I ended up getting that project.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: And I wrote a biography of Judy Blume that was geared at the middle grade audience.
Speaker: And it was so much fun.
Speaker: And we had a huge launch party in L.A.
Speaker: And people like performed songs about Judy Blume.
Speaker: We had monologues, comedy.
Speaker: It was a blast.
Speaker: Like people were talking about periods, puberty, all the Judy Blume things.
Speaker: And it was such a rewarding project, but it would never have happened.
Speaker: if I hadn't made that outreach.
Speaker: So I am a true believer.
Speaker: And I think that's why I resonated with your podcast concept so much, because I do think that we can be agents for our own dreams to make them happen.
Speaker: And I think often they feel like these far away things that we have to do X, Y, and Z before we can even think about going for that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I see that a lot in the work I do now as an Artist's Way facilitator.
Speaker: a lot of people think they have to hit a certain threshold, you know, before they can call themselves a writer.
Speaker: Like, oh, you know, I have to be published before I can own this title of writer, you know, but I believe if you write, therefore you are a writer, you paint, therefore you are a painter.
Speaker: It doesn't have to be this far away goal.
Speaker: That's like, you can't see it.
Speaker: You know, you make it real by just diving in.
Speaker: And so I guess that's one of the main things I just want to say is, you know,
Speaker: taking an active role in your dreams can make all the difference.
Speaker: I totally believe that.
Speaker: And I love that you said that.
Speaker: Another thing I wrote down about have the courage to hear the word no, because it sounds like, you know, you probably heard no, or you said you made probably 300 calls and only got like two possibly.
Speaker: And one was even a no, but still ended up becoming like a mentor treat to you.
Speaker: And so I,
Speaker: I think so many people are just afraid to put themselves out there because they're afraid to hear that word no.
Speaker: But your life was – I mean, it wasn't worse by hearing the word no, but it was so much better once you got that yes.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: And I think anyone who's a freelancer and has to pitch often, you know, or like put themselves out there a lot just to generate income, you become very accustomed, you know, to either rejection or silence.
Speaker: You know, there's a lot of people who just don't even have time to respond to you, you know, and it really is just like a numbers game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I think if you can get intentional around which opportunities are most aligned, you
Speaker: you know, then that's where it starts to become easier.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: You know, so, but yeah, really being willing to keep going, you know, after you get those no's can also make all the difference because it's hard.
Speaker: Like you, you're like a vulnerable baby bird, you know, putting yourself out there.
Speaker: And some people actually, we talk about this in the artist way.
Speaker: It's called the creative U-turn.
Speaker: You know, we talk about this a lot.
Speaker: So maybe there's a stranger or relative or a parent or teacher who, you know,
Speaker: doesn't believe in you, you know, and they make that known and you internalize that, you know, and you say, well, I guess ceramics isn't for me, you know, or I guess moving out to Hollywood, you know, isn't in the cards, you know, cause I just don't have what it takes.
Speaker: And so, sorry, I lost my train of thought, but it's like really kind of being willing to put one foot after another and keep going and
Speaker: And there are a lot of different ways to do that.
Speaker: But you have to you have to be able to make that mental shift and say, no matter how many no's I get, I know that that yes is out there.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually wrote down to that be open to where the road leads you.
Speaker: Because, you know, you had so many different jobs.
Speaker: And it's not like it.
Speaker: You intentionally is like, okay, I'm going to go and do this now.
Speaker: It's like after one job ended, you had yourself open up to the possibilities of what could be next.
Speaker: A thousand percent.
Speaker: And even like I said, when I transitioned from working in TV and film, kind of more into journalism, that by no means was a decision I made.
Speaker: It was kind of where life took me.
Speaker: And one of the sayings I like to say is ride the horse in the direction it's going.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's so good.
Speaker: You know, because it felt like it was right.
Speaker: And even though I hadn't planned it, it took me on the most amazing adventure.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Being willing to kind of go with the flow and listen to where your energy is being directed, which actually I haven't even gotten to that part yet, but I had to have some come to Jesus moments when I, after I got to Cleveland about where my energy was leading me.
Speaker: And it was hard, you know, so sometimes it's not always going to be like kumbaya moment, you know, when your life is leading you a different way.
Speaker: But if you take the time to listen and be open and willing to maybe what's coming around the pike, it can change everything.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Could you share a little bit about like?
Speaker: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: So yeah, like I said, I moved back to Cleveland in 2017, started editing Freshwater Cleveland, but I was still freelance.
Speaker: You know, it was only a part time job.
Speaker: I was still writing for lots of other publications and teaching and doing all the other things I was doing out in L.A.
Speaker: And
Speaker: It was interesting because I was so passionate about the freshwater job and it really should have been a full time job.
Speaker: And it was super all encompassing.
Speaker: And I really started to burn out because it was the job that paid the least out of everything I did and took the most time.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: And so in order to make a good livelihood, I was having to take on all these other projects and everything.
Speaker: And I had young kids, you know, and so I was really starting to burn out.
Speaker: And at the same time, when I moved back, I also started leading courses and cohorts through the Artist's Way.
Speaker: So I haven't even mentioned that yet.
Speaker: But that book that I was given at my last day at Daredevil, that became a big part of my life while I was in LA.
Speaker: I was taking Artist's Way classes and
Speaker: It's basically a bestselling book that's about staying connected to your creativity.
Speaker: And I kept coming back to it time and again, while I was in LA in different ways.
Speaker: And it was really, it had impacted my life quite a bit.
Speaker: Over the years, as I was freelance writing and editing, I had also started teaching classes and workshops on how to break into journalism, how to write books, YA books.
Speaker: I was kind of teaching classes and courses that were rooted in my expertise.
Speaker: And so when I got to Cleveland, I decided I've been...
Speaker: studying the artist's way for about 10 years now, you know, I want to develop a program around the artist's way and start teaching that as well as these kinds of writing and journalism classes.
Speaker: So I started doing that the same year after I moved back to Cleveland.
Speaker: And so at the same time I was burning out on my journalism and
Speaker: I was teaching these Artist's Way classes and that was really lighting me up and I was feeling so energized.
Speaker: And so as time went on, I was like grinding and grinding and hustling and hustling.
Speaker: And I was teaching my classes and I was also doing all my freelance work.
Speaker: And I think it was 2021, I'll say, where I just hit a total wall.
Speaker: I couldn't do it all anymore.
Speaker: Like I was really, I was dropping the ball on things.
Speaker: I was having trouble keeping up.
Speaker: You know, I always had a lot of energy and been able to do a lot of things.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I wouldn't say effortlessly, but like it came naturally to me to do many different things and no longer.
Speaker: It was like, oh no, like you, you can't, you can't lead your work like the same way you always have anymore.
Speaker: So I really had to take an inventory of, okay, where am I being energized?
Speaker: Where am I being drained and depleted?
Speaker: And it was very clear that my creative facilitating and teaching was what was next for me.
Speaker: And so, but it was only about 20% of my income at that point.
Speaker: So my writing and editing was 80% of my income.
Speaker: So I was scared.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, I was like, I have to start over again.
Speaker: You know, like this is, I don't want to do that.
Speaker: I think I was, you know, in my early forties at that point, you know, I was like, I, I,
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: But I couldn't fight it anymore.
Speaker: My body literally would not let me take on new editorial jobs.
Speaker: And I started saying no a lot.
Speaker: And I started releasing clients.
Speaker: And by the time March 2022 came around, I only had one editorial client left.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: And that was when I released that client.
Speaker: And I was like...
Speaker: Okay, you know, I have like an open road in front of me, you know, and that was when I decided to go full time with my business Creative Groove.
Speaker: So I had had that business basically since 2005, and it had taken many different shapes in that time.
Speaker: But what it had become was really...
Speaker: the umbrella for all the different classes I was teaching, you know, the different workshops I was facilitating and I was ready to do it full time.
Speaker: So I took that leap and it's been a little over a year now and it's been absolutely fantastic.
Speaker: I haven't looked back, but it's been hard.
Speaker: I mean, it has been starting over in a lot of ways.
Speaker: And what I learned too was for many years I operated as a freelancer and now I'm consider myself more of an entrepreneur and a business owner.
Speaker: there's so many things I have to learn and master, you know, and I'm not necessarily good at all of them.
Speaker: So that's been a challenge, you know, it's like, well, I have, you know, you would call your zone of genius, right?
Speaker: I love what I do and I'm really good at it, but I also have to be good at the marketing and the social media and sales and accounting.
Speaker: And I'm not at a point yet where I can outsource those things.
Speaker: So I'm starting to make another dream happen.
Speaker: But, you know, as you get older, you know, your energy reserves.
Speaker: I really have to.
Speaker: put my whole heart and soul into it to make this happen because it's like, there's more demands on your time now.
Speaker: So it's like, you know, you really, really have to nurture it and believe in it in order to keep going.
Speaker: Cause it every day is a new challenge or a new thing to think about.
Speaker: So, so yeah, I'm kind of off on another adventure and I'm absolutely loving it, but also I'm like,
Speaker: you're kind of back at that crossroads again.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But the good thing is it's only hard for a little while, you know, until you figure out the systems and the processes.
Speaker: And I was talking to somebody yesterday and I was like, I have a business degree, you know, that's what my degree from college is, but I have learned more business just by doing it.
Speaker: And in my own business than I ever learned in college.
Speaker: And I mean, I, I love, you know, I love the fact that I went to college, but still, um,
Speaker: But yeah, there's a lot being a business owner.
Speaker: You've got to learn the marketing.
Speaker: You've got to learn the QuickBooks and QuickBooks makes me want to cry.
Speaker: I understand invoicing through it, but that was one of the first things I did hire a bookkeeper when I could because I was like, I just can't.
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, it takes a lot of energy to get a business up and going.
Speaker: But once you're in that groove state, like you're talking about, it's so worth it.
Speaker: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker: And so, so yeah, that's kind of the dream that I'm working on now, you know, and I have a lot of visions for it.
Speaker: And one year in, I'm like, there's still so much more I want to do.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so your business, what, what is it that you're a creativity coach, right?
Speaker: And workshop facilitator.
Speaker: So what does that look like if somebody wanted to work with you?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So Creative Groove, I offer one-on-one coaching as well as group coaching programs, courses, workshops, and community programming.
Speaker: One of my favorite things I do every year, it's a free or low-cost challenge.
Speaker: I started out free.
Speaker: I've moved toward low-cost, but it's like $16.
Speaker: So it's affordable.
Speaker: And what it is, it's called March Radness.
Speaker: And what we do is I invite people who have lots of ideas, right?
Speaker: They're big thinkers.
Speaker: They're visionaries.
Speaker: They have
Speaker: laundry list of ideas, you know?
Speaker: And what we do is we come in and we use a March, like a March madness basketball bracket and,
Speaker: And we work our way through our long list of ideas to identify your next right thing.
Speaker: So what's the low hanging fruit, you know, that's right for you to take action on now.
Speaker: And it's become one of my favorite things that I do.
Speaker: So I love helping people because like I said before, I, a lot of the people I help or even myself too, we may have ADHD or we may be multi-potentialites who, you
Speaker: see the world as a candy store, right?
Speaker: We want to do all of our ideas and we want to do them all at once.
Speaker: And that doesn't always work out so well.
Speaker: You know, so I try to give people tips and tools and techniques for harnessing that big thinking, ideation, visionary part of their self as a superpower rather than a setback.
Speaker: and help them get started on bringing some of those ideas to life.
Speaker: And then another of my signature programs is obviously my Artist's Way program.
Speaker: So it's a 12-week cohort where we work through the Artist's Way using a curriculum I've designed that brings in co-active coaching as well as other modalities.
Speaker: We watch a lot of TED Talks.
Speaker: We do all kinds of things.
Speaker: There's hands-on art creation, mini coaching,
Speaker: different interactive exercises.
Speaker: We read the book together.
Speaker: So it's a really cool creative experience that's meant to
Speaker: help people kind of drill back down to their creative core.
Speaker: The Artist's Way looks at all the different layers that come between us and our creativity over the years and where those come from.
Speaker: And it also looks at some of your formative experiences around what makes you who you are creatively.
Speaker: And it brings you back to that.
Speaker: And so I offer that twice a year.
Speaker: Oh, nice.
Speaker: We're actually about to start again.
Speaker: The one I do in the fall is actually in person in Cleveland.
Speaker: And then the one I do in the wintertime, which usually starts in January, early February, is online.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, um, so those are two of the bigger things that I do.
Speaker: And then, um, I also do lots of other stuff.
Speaker: I lead retreats, everything just around the art of living creatively, self-expression and designing a more colorful life.
Speaker: So that's, that's what I love.
Speaker: I I've been able to do that myself and I like to help others, others do the same.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it sounds very, very interesting.
Speaker: And you have, like I said, you have such a passion for it.
Speaker: It's clear you can hear that.
Speaker: And then such a cool story of like all the different things that you've done.
Speaker: One thing I was going to ask, because I think the listeners might like to know is when you would send emails to people, you know, trying to get in front of them that they don't know you, you don't know them.
Speaker: How did you phrase like your subject line?
Speaker: Because I'm imagining like that's the that's the key to get them to open it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: How do you how do you phrase that in a way that they will open it?
Speaker: I always recommend, and this goes for pitching too, because I teach people how to pitch magazine articles.
Speaker: If you have any sort of commonality, that should be in the subject line.
Speaker: So whether it's met you at SCBWI conference in May, reaching out, you know, or fellow Bobcat inquiring about Freshwater Cleveland job.
Speaker: If you have any sort of commonality, that should be first and foremost.
Speaker: If you don't have a commonality, then
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, I usually do find people that I have some sort of commonality with in order to be able to do that active networking.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's part of it, too.
Speaker: It's like reaching out your tentacles, you know, to find those people, whether it be through LinkedIn or, you know, your own research or asking around.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because the warm lead is actually part of it.
Speaker: But like I said, the Judy Blume thing, you know, I had just reached out through this forum that we were both part of.
Speaker: So I don't even think there was a subject line involved with that because I did a DM through the forum.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: And same with Instagram.
Speaker: You know, you don't necessarily have a subject line.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Or even LinkedIn.
Speaker: Well, I think LinkedIn does.
Speaker: But anyway, my top tip is like find your commonality.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Use that to your advantage.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That would be my top tip.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's even helpful for like real estate agents because I'm in the real estate industry.
Speaker: You know, they always have to do Legion to be able to get business and
Speaker: that can definitely be a great tip for them to like find the commonality with the buyer and seller.
Speaker: And then you can get that opening to be able to share how you can help them.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And I've seen again and again how my own alumni network has been highly pivotal in forging opportunities.
Speaker: So even if you didn't go to college, you know, your high school alumni network,
Speaker: you know, or affinity groups or networking groups that you're in locally.
Speaker: This is something I've been, I wouldn't say struggling with, but something that's like very much on my radar is I've always, the way I've filled my classes and coaching cohorts and everything, it's always come from people within my own network because I'm a pretty active networker.
Speaker: But I really honestly never been able to crack the code very much into, you know, going beyond that.
Speaker: I very much want to do that.
Speaker: And I'm lucky that my network's pretty wide.
Speaker: You know, I've done a lot of different things and I believe in networking, but I think I can scale my business so much more if I could crack that code of how to reach new faces that I've never heard of creative groups before or heard of me.
Speaker: And obviously, you know, being on podcasts is a big part of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, there are different ways you can do it, but I see so much potential and I'm like, okay, how do I connect the dots where I can really amplify my reach?
Speaker: And so that's something I think about a lot.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, because I know what you're offering could go, you know, worldwide.
Speaker: Yeah, people actually know the artist's way all over the world.
Speaker: And there are many facilitators out there.
Speaker: It's not just me.
Speaker: And that was something I struggled with a little bit in the beginning.
Speaker: I had a little bit of a scarcity mindset around it.
Speaker: Like, there's so many people out there already doing this.
Speaker: You know, why would anyone take my class?
Speaker: But then I had to own the fact that I had designed my own curriculum, my own experience of it.
Speaker: And I realized I was like, you can, I myself have done the artist's way 15 times.
Speaker: You know, and I realized I was like, I've done it with my mentor.
Speaker: You know, I've done it through my own.
Speaker: And now I encourage people to take it with me, but also take it with like other facilitators, because we're all going to have our own lens on it.
Speaker: And the artist way is something you can come back to time and again.
Speaker: In fact, a lot of the people who've taken my class take it again.
Speaker: a year or two later.
Speaker: So it is really like a creative companion.
Speaker: And that helped me come up with more of an abundance mindset around it of like, yes, there are thousands of Artist's Way facilitators out there.
Speaker: And that's a great thing.
Speaker: But at first it was daunting.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker: I'm working on a course that will be launched here soon.
Speaker: And I know there's other courses out there for transaction coordinators, but just like you said, is like, we all have our own lens and our own perspective on how to facilitate the business and how to do different things.
Speaker: And so you are going to resonate with somebody differently than another facilitator who might resonate with a different individual, you know, based on personalities and
Speaker: teaching styles and all types of things.
Speaker: Yeah, energy is a big part of it.
Speaker: And I think as I'm saying that, I'm realizing sometimes it may feel fruitless to be showing up on social media and you're like, oh, I got five likes on that post or whatever.
Speaker: But actually, people are reading your energy.
Speaker: They're feeling what you're all about.
Speaker: They're seeing how you present, you know, your content.
Speaker: And so I think social media is an important part of that because people can see your energy and see if it's a fit.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And you never know how many people are actually seeing that post versus unless you're looking at the insights, but you know, they may not actually like it or comment, but if they're seeing your content over and over, then you become the expert in that field.
Speaker: Agreed.
Speaker: Agreed.
Speaker: So it all, it's all part of it.
Speaker: And yeah, I, I'm hoping that I can continue to
Speaker: grow my reach, you know, because I really see myself doing this for a very long time and, um, I'm loving it so far.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, we are just about to the end of our podcast.
Speaker: So I have my three closing questions.
Speaker: What is one piece of advice you would give somebody who's thinking about taking the risk of chasing their, their daydreams?
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Well, I've shared a few already that I think are part of it, but another one I'll add on is in the artist's way, Julia Cameron, who's the author of the book, she talks about what she calls filling the form.
Speaker: And it applies to the fact that a lot of times when we have a creative goal and it feels really big, it can almost overwhelm us into inaction.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like we don't even start because it just feels so.
Speaker: Overwhelming.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: To do this thing.
Speaker: Because you start to have this, if then kind of like, well, if I start writing a screenplay, you know, then.
Speaker: what if I have to move to LA one day and I have to like upheave my whole life?
Speaker: And, or, or what, what if, you know, you start thinking about all the what ifs and those just kind of like, thank you into doing nothing basically.
Speaker: So filling the form is about taking micro actions toward your dream that help really kind of break it down.
Speaker: And you just set your sights on the next thing.
Speaker: So it's like maybe one day you, you know, sign up for a Reddit forum where people talk about screenplays, you know, and the next day you research software, screenwriting software, and you just, you start filling the forum line by line instead of always being weighed down by like, oh my gosh, how am I going to learn the art of screenwriting?
Speaker: Write a whole screenplay.
Speaker: I don't have to, you know, like it, it,
Speaker: it can turn into a spiral.
Speaker: You know, you go down that rabbit hole and it just makes you not want to do anything.
Speaker: So the one form is just about making it feel really digestible and fun and really prizing the idea of process over product.
Speaker: So that whole idea of like the journey and not the destination.
Speaker: So yes, the goal is to write a screenplay.
Speaker: But what if we made the creative process fun and juicy and just as exciting as having that finished manuscript in your hand?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And actually, that's why my business is called Creative Groove is because when you're in your creative groove, you're in that flow state.
Speaker: You love what you're doing.
Speaker: And it isn't so much about the end game, but about feeling fulfilled along the way.
Speaker: That's really important.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think so many of us can get so weighed down by having to have the project finished and what's going to happen once it's finished.
Speaker: Is it going to be successful that we lose sight of just how we're feeling in the moment while we're going on that journey?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we're also weighing ourself on our progress of like, how far am I to that completed manuscript?
Speaker: And when it feels so far away, it can be deflating.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: So it's like, well, what if I just...
Speaker: let this be fun and easy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Also we can put those internal deadlines and on us and then create anxiousness and stress.
Speaker: And you know, we're the ones creating it on ourself.
Speaker: It's not because somebody else is creating it.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: And you think about I've seen that one graphic where you think it's going to be like this linear straight line toward instead.
Speaker: It's like this right.
Speaker: So instead of fighting that, embracing that, like, yes, scribble, you know, and I'm going to let it be that and enjoy that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: Well, I know The Artist's Way is a very influential book in your life.
Speaker: Do you have any, another one or any podcasts that are very influential in your life?
Speaker: Well, when you sent me the question, I was going to say The Artist's Way, but I know we've talked about it a lot.
Speaker: So I will say...
Speaker: The work of Susan Hyatt, who's a life coach, she has written several books and she has a podcast.
Speaker: And her podcasts are always extremely uplifting and inspiring to me.
Speaker: So I think she's someone I really emulate as a coach.
Speaker: I think she kind of embodies where I'd like to go with my career.
Speaker: And so I think her podcast, her books, her whole approach to not only her career, but her life,
Speaker: she, she's someone I kind of hold up as being really highly influential to me.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'll have to look into her.
Speaker: And then lastly, how can people find you?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I love connecting with people on Instagram.
Speaker: So my handle is your creative groove G R O O V E. And my website is simply creative groove.com.
Speaker: And feel free to email me Jen J E N at creative groove.com.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker: That's been, it's been such an inspiring episode and I can't wait to see, you know, in the next year, two years, what your business looks like.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Me too.
Speaker: And thank you for, you know, doing this podcast because I have a feeling it's really sparking things for a lot of people and helping them see what's possible for them.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: That is my goal.
Speaker: I would love to see other people follow their dreams and, you know, believe in their self that they can.
Speaker: Thanks so much for tuning in today.
Speaker: If you'd be so kind and leave me a quick review, I would love to hear from you.
Speaker: You can also connect with me on Instagram at Christy Winfrey.
Speaker: If you enjoyed today's episode, please hit that follow button.
Speaker: And until next time, keep chasing those dreams, my friend.
Speaker: Remember, you are worth it.
