Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to today's episode of Red Eye. I'm Jane Williams. Coming up in this episode, Loranchism talks with town mayor Abu Ramadan about why 40 ,000 Palestinian flags were planted in a park in Vancouver's West End.
Speaker: On Saturday, a large memorial was installed by volunteers at Devonian Park in the west end of Vancouver, near the entrance to Stanley Park. 40 ,000 Palestinian flags symbolized the significant loss of life due to the ongoing assault on Gaza and Canada's role in funding the slaughter. This Vancouver installation follows a number of displays across the country and internationally, including Portland and London.
Speaker: Tamar Aburamadan is a Vancouver, Palestinian organizer and community advocate, and he joins me now. Hello, Tamar. Hello. Good morning, Lorian. Describe for us the memorial and what people would see along Georgia Street near the entrance to Stanley Park on Saturday afternoon.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. So the local community consisting of members of people who have been in grief and grief stricken over the images that they're seeing on their TV wanted to come out and do something to commemorate the victims and to kind of speak and say not in our name.
Speaker: So, we came out to build and plant the flags that were there in Devonian Park and along West Georgia, along both medians. And there were 40 ,000 flags which represent one person who's either been killed or is buried under the rubble in Gaza.
Speaker: since October, which is the official death count from the Gaza Ministry of Health, which is 32 ,000 and then 8 ,000 people buried under the rubble and presumed to be dead. Obviously, this is under count because there's been a lot of inability of the Gaza Ministry of Health reporting all the dead who are buried and who have been killed, who have not been documented yet.
Speaker: But we wanted to do our part to commemorate and honor each one of the martyrs with a handmade flag using recyclable materials. So these are not plastic flags, and they're made from wooden sticks, wheat paste, and printed flags. And they were planted in rows upon rows upon rows across all of Devonian Park, and then across West Georgia, and then going down to the Seawall Trail.
Speaker: just was very moved by the scale, by the presence of the flags. And it seemed to go on and on for blocks and blocks. And I think that was part of the impact that you wanted to have.
Speaker: That's correct. Because even for those who are either very sympathetic or moved by the images that they're seeing, the number will always seem very hard to comprehend of 40 ,000. And seeing the flags, planting the flags, building the flags really put it back into perspective as to the immense loss of life that's been going on. And just the impact of
Speaker: on both the people who planted the flags, but also people who passed by. There were tens of thousands, I would say, of people either walking, cycling, or driving passed by the memorial. It was just immense. The overwhelming response of the community was very positive. People stopped, took it, and asked questions.
Speaker: including people that have previously not either shown up to protests or have been that engaged because they're leading busy lives. And so it's also a way of reaching people and letting them know that this is still happening and that Canada is still in some way and fashion complicit in what is happening in Gaza and Israel's onslaught and massacres in Gaza.
Speaker: As everyone should know, the International Court of Justice has named what's happening in Palestine as plausible genocide, and there have been repeated calls for a ceasefire. What did you want to convey about the Canadian government's responsibility for what is happening?
Speaker: That's a great question because the Canadian government and a lot of governments across the world, to be honest, it's not just Canada, and it's played a role from the beginning of this, of both green lighting, what's going on right now at the very beginning.
Speaker: by basically giving carte blanche to Israel to do what it's currently doing, even though despite the fact that, as was demonstrated in South Africa's application to stop what's happening and to get the ICJ to declare it a genocide, it clearly demonstrated the genocidal intent very early on.
Speaker: For example, Israel's defense minister saying that there will be no food, no electricity, no water, and all of those will be cut off because they're fighting in their words subhuman animals. And those statements came out very early on, and our prime minister should have known better. But unfortunately, him, Melanesha Ali, and the Canadian government is essentially greenlit, the current genocide, and Canada has had
Speaker: diplomatic trade relations, arms trading in both directions, i .e. arms being sold to Israel and Canada, purchasing what they call battle -tested military equipment, i .e. tested on the population of Palestine and Gaza.
Speaker: And Canada was very late in endorsing a ceasefire. Obviously it came, but it came too late and it came past the stage in which what was happening could be undone. And Canada refuses to play a constructive role in this current situation. And there are a lot of Canadian MPs have been basically absent and are refusing to meet with their constituents and are refusing to
Speaker: amplify the voices of both Palestinians and Palestinian solidarity members. And this is a way of kind of breaking through all of that. And so I hope it accomplished that. And yeah, Tamara, can you talk about how this horrible situation in Gaza has affected Palestinians living in Vancouver? Yeah, it's been
Speaker: It's been really hard to watch. It's been really hard to just comprehend that this is actually happening in this day and age, that there is a live streamed genocide or a plausible case of genocide happening, war crimes, galore, bombing of hospitals, as we saw with the El Shifa hospital.
Speaker: bombing of aid workers providing food, including just yesterday a group of aid workers, one of them Canadian killed by Israel, and the state is just kind of operating with total impunity.
Speaker: It's been very difficult for us with families there or who come from there and even people of good conscience like the people who participated in this flag building and flag planting and Canadians across the board. But seeing the images, seeing the video, seeing it all in technical or in HD and yet at the same time juxtaposing that with the dehumanizing language
Speaker: and the dehumanizing comments that come out of the Canadian government, but also large swathes of the media that they are always providing a justification or obfuscate what is happening with language such as Palestinians die of starvation without mentioning why they're dying of starvation and treating it as if it's a
Speaker: you know, natural disaster, as opposed to what it actually is, which is a human -made disaster and a crime, as is happening in the case of the famine in Gaza, that is not a natural phenomenon. The reason why Gaza is going through a famine is because of the blockade of food and water. And yet, if you were to hear our Canadian politicians, a large extent of them, obviously not all, there are some notable exceptions, or even the media,
Speaker: all of that context is missing. And if you were the kind of person who was maybe not paying close attention, you would think that there's just a natural disaster as opposed to what it is, which is forced starvation of a population and ethnic cleansing and genocide. So it's very disheartening to see that as a Palestinian myself and a lot of Palestinians that I speak with feel the same way.
Speaker: And it feels like our lives are not worth as much and worthless. And we saw that even with people who showed up, by the way, with the memorial disruptors, the handful of disruptors that showed up. Obviously, like I said, most people were very sympathetic and they were very encouraging and it brought the community together. But there were a few disruptors who showed up.
Speaker: And they felt like they have impunity to go and yell racist epithets towards myself and some of the organizers calling us terrorists to go back to our country and stomping on flags that simply represent dead people, dead humans. And I can't imagine that being tolerated if it was any other group of people being honored.
Speaker: And this is essentially the green light that Canada gave. It wasn't just to Israel to act with impunity, but it also is some handful of people in our community who also have this dehumanizing perspective towards Palestinians.
Speaker: and feeling like they can say whatever and do whatever. So this is all part and parcel of the maelstrom and hurricane of feelings and emotions that Palestinians are going through, thanks to our complicity of our government and the lackluster media coverage of what's going on. Obviously, this show being a very, very notable exception as well.
Speaker: That's just absolutely horrendous behavior, some of which I witnessed when I was at the memorial.
Speaker: This was the 48th anniversary of Palestinian Land Day, and there were also signs amongst the flags explaining what Palestinian Land Day is. And also, throughout the protests that there have been in Vancouver, there's always been a lot of solidarity with local Indigenous folks. Can you talk about Land Day and how
Speaker: The signs and speeches at the memorial also pointed to the occupation of lands by the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil -Waututh nations in Vancouver. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess first, some context that I want to kind of get out of the way and to dispense with some of the myths about what the Palestinian cause is about, because there's a lot of misunderstanding where people think it's a religious conflict that goes back until time immemorial, that there's a conflict between
Speaker: Jews and Arabs and Muslims and Christians. And that's just simply not true. The origins and the root cause of the ongoing conflict is similar to the one that the indigenous of First Nations of this country in North America faced, which is
Speaker: their ties to the land and then being expelled, dispossessed, ethnically cleansed and genocided on the lands that they lived on. And so the settler colonial state that is Canada is not that dissimilar to Israel. And that's why there's this connection between the struggle for freedom and liberation of the indigenous people here in Canada and the indigenous people in Palestine.
Speaker: And Land Day represents that and commemorates that relationship to the land. And it commemorates an event in 1976 where the Israeli government confiscated huge swaths of land from air villagers in Israel, a state called Israel, and Palestinians rose up to
Speaker: fight against this dispossession, this ongoing dispossession. And Blanday commemorates that and is a reminder that this struggle for us is a struggle over land, over our Indigenous ancestral lands. Timur, where should we be putting our priorities to stop the genocide and support Palestinians as far as Canada and the Canadian government goes?
Speaker: So recently, there was a motion tabled by the NDP that goes some ways, not all the way, but some ways to addressing the current situation by recognizing a state of Palestine, by having a complete and an embargo on trade, an arms trade with the state of Israel, as well as allow Palestinian and Gaza refugees into Canada and lifting the cap and the conditions on their refugee status and entry into Canada.
Speaker: And that bill, unfortunately, was watered down so that it can pass with the approval of the Liberal Party or some members of the Liberal Party or their MPs. But that's a good start, I would say, which is to recognize the state of Palestine and
Speaker: all trade relations with the state of Israel that is now plausibly accused of committing a genocide, according to the ICJ, and that has had now multiple well -documented examples of war crimes. And I speak as a Canadian, and I speak for a lot of Canadians of saying, regardless of how long the conflict has been going, regardless of who's right, who's wrong,
Speaker: A lot of Canadians simply ought to not approve their government of sending arms to a country that is committing war crimes and acts of genocide, regardless of what they might think about the root cause of the conflict. At a bare minimum, that's what I think Canada should do, and to represent the overwhelming majority of Canadians who want this to stop and who want Canada to no longer support what Israel is doing, whether
Speaker: implicitly or complicity. Obviously, beyond that, there are serious concerns by the Palestinian communities about people that went to serve in Israel's army, in this onslaught and this genocide, and these soldiers who are dual citizens coming back into our country and being in the community. That raises a lot of concerns about whether
Speaker: They are bringing in the mindset that led to this onslaught of genocide into Canada and exposing people who are Palestinians or Palestinian sympathizers to risk because they carry the same mindset and the same genocidal intent with them that they've been carrying out for the last six months now. So there's a lot that Canada can and should be doing to protect Canadians and to uphold international law and to uphold Canada's commitment to humanitarianism.
Speaker: Thank you so much for joining me, Tamara. Thank you, Lorraine. And I do want to just say one last thing. I do want to urge the city to work with the organizers of this memorial, the people that were involved in building it and the Palestinian organizers to make it a permanent installation.
Speaker: so that we can continue to honor our martyrs because this is an ongoing situation and it allows Palestinians and Palestinians sympathizers to grieve in a way that can also bring the community together. This memorial has been very well received and I don't see a reason why the city, the city and the park board to work with the Palestinians and Palestinian organizers to make it a permanent fixture. Obviously there will be people who are disruptors, there will be people of bad faith who
Speaker: who stooped so low as to stomp on flags, but that should be no reason why it should stop the overwhelming majority of us to come together and grieve and to behave peacefully. So I urge the city to please work with us on this.
Speaker: And one last thing I'd like to note as well is that one thing that really does hearten me and give me a lot of hope in humanity and in the future is the hundreds and thousands of people that I've personally met that show up day in, day out for Palestine and to stop this ongoing genocide, despite the fact that they have no connections to the conflict. They're not Palestinians, but yet they have their humanity intact.
Speaker: and their voice of conscience, and they are always speaking out. And that's really been keeping me going to see the support. So thank you to everyone who's involved in the Palestinian solidarity movement, including Lorraine and the show as well. I'm so glad I was able to talk with you this morning. And I thank you very much for the work you're doing and for the memorial, which was very moving, very powerful. Thank you so much, Lorraine. Really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker: I've been speaking with Tamar Abu -Ramadan. He is a Vancouver, Palestinian organizer and community advocate. The Red Eye Collective is based in Vancouver. You can check us out at coopradio .org slash redeye.
