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060 | Marriage Episode 5: On Pregnancy and Postpartum
451 Plays3 years ago
In this episode Josh and Phy discuss how husbands and wives can be considerate of one another during pregnancy and postpartum seasons, why birthing classes helped Josh have compassion, and a little discussion of sex after babies!
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Transcript
Introduction to Verity Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Verity. I'm your host, Felicia Masonheimer, an author, speaker, and Bible teacher. This podcast will help you embrace the history and depth of the Christian faith, ask questions, seek answers, and devote yourself to becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. You don't have to settle for watered down Christian teaching. And if you're ready to go deeper, God is just as ready to take you there.
Honest Marriage Series: Life Phases
00:00:26
Speaker
This is Verity, where every woman is a theologian.
00:00:30
Speaker
Well, we're already in episode five of the Honest Marriage series. Wow. Can you believe that we're this far? Yeah. It's going by fast. It is. And today we're going to be talking about another season of life that goes by very fast. Pregnancy.
Impact of Pregnancy on Marriage
00:00:49
Speaker
Doesn't seem like that would be the case, though, for the woman. Probably not, actually, now that I'm thinking back. That's the thing when you're pregnant.
00:00:58
Speaker
After you have the baby, you kind of get amnesia of what the pregnancy was like. That's why babies are so cute. That's why people keep having them. Because they're so cute. But we are talking about pregnancy and postpartum today and the impact that those have on marriage. And if you're new to the Honest Marriage series of the Verity podcast, this is just a casual conversation between myself, Felicia Masonheimer, and my husband, Josh.
Biblical Principles of Mutual Support
00:01:25
Speaker
Hello.
00:01:25
Speaker
talking about what scripture says about being Christian people who are married to one another. And so we're sharing our story and the ups and downs that we've walked through in our almost eight years of marriage and hoping that through our journey, some of you are encouraged and that you're able to have some thought-provoking conversations with your spouse or with your friends if you're single.
00:01:52
Speaker
And so for this episode, I was thinking about what verses we could use for our discussion. And there are verses about pregnancy in the Bible, but what we're really talking about is a principle of care for one another and love for one another during what can be a very stressful season.
00:02:17
Speaker
and a season of transition. And so I looked at verses about caring for others. And one of the verses that came up was actually very different than most, most of them. And I was really impacted by it. It's Exodus 1712. It's just a one little portion of a story
00:02:38
Speaker
about the life of Moses and it says, So
00:02:58
Speaker
context of this is that there was a battle going on between the Israelites and one of the Canaanite habitants. And as long as Moses held his hands in the air, they prevailed. And if he dropped his hands, they began to lose the battle. So how does that
00:03:23
Speaker
Like apply, what inspired you to come across this passage as far as caring for someone in a situation like this?
00:03:34
Speaker
I think what impacted me about this story and this particular verse is that in drawing a parallel between a story like this in our own modern lives, we have to make sure that we're accurately exegeting the passage. So we don't want to just take the principle and say, oh, this applies to me without doing that appropriately.
00:03:54
Speaker
What we see here is that Moses needed other people in order to be faithful to what God was calling him to do. And other people were blessed through that faithfulness. So it was this community effort of faithfulness that resulted in victory for Israel. And the family is the first community of faith. It's that first place where discipleship happens.
00:04:23
Speaker
And we talk about that a lot. Josh and I talk about it. We talk about it at Every Woman a Theologian. But I just think that the verse was really powerful to me because of that idea of holding
Pregnancy Stress and Support
00:04:36
Speaker
one another up so you can complete the call of God on your life and on your family. Yeah, that's insightful. So, caring for one another and
00:04:50
Speaker
loving one another isn't just about being cared for and being on the recipient. And it's not just about who can care the most for you. Or Moses was just like, I like my arms being held up. This is great. But Romans 12, 10 actually talks about loving one another with brotherly affection.
00:05:18
Speaker
and outdo one another and show an honor. So it's talking about outdoing one another in your affection, the platonic affection, which is just like just caring for the person and lifting them up, admonishing them and encouraging them.
00:05:37
Speaker
And so I think that's kind of like what we wanted to talk about today is just how we can, you know, lift one another up and not allow it to be a competition or where, you know, someone is caring all the time and then they're like, well, I haven't been cared for in a while and I've been doing all the caring, like what's in it for me. And that's, so that's, you know, very unhealthy mentality, but
00:06:05
Speaker
We wanted to discuss how we can kind of flip the switch on that and have a very affectionate selfless mentality. Yeah, I love that terminology for it. And one of the times when that's really difficult is during pregnancy and postpartum because you're under a lot of stress as a couple.
00:06:31
Speaker
There's a lot of stressors internally and oftentimes externally or your normal everyday external stressors are aggravated. And you're kind of forced to be the recipient. This recipient of care? Yeah.
00:06:47
Speaker
like laid up after pregnancy, you know, you want to contribute and all, but same time, you know, you can't and you like, you know, some don't receive much help, but you can't really contribute. And so it's kind of, it's hard for both of you really. For the husband and the wife. To feel like there is like a give and take relationship.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah, so what you're saying is that for women who've had the baby, sometimes it can feel like you're in a position where you have to be able to receive help and you're dependent. Yeah, and you kind of feel like dead wig sometimes, I'm sure.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, I know like when I was pregnant and sick, I don't get super nauseous, but I have an autoimmune disease triggered by pregnancy that really terribly affects my skin. And yeah, there's times when you just feel like
00:07:49
Speaker
I need you to work full time and I need you to take care of me and I need you to take care of these kids because I'm exhausted or I'm sick or whatever the case may be. So it can be really hard to feel super dependent and then vice versa.
00:08:06
Speaker
I think there's also in some situations, wives who are pregnant and feel like their husbands don't care at all or like aren't very attentive or don't pay attention to their needs and aren't compassionate. Yeah. And I think that it's a dangerous mentality to have of like, you know,
00:08:28
Speaker
like I'm sick you should be taking care of me or you know I'm pregnant but if you know there is some laziness on his part then it it's not a very good situation so you when you say yeah so when you say dangerous mentality are you saying like
00:08:51
Speaker
if they start, like in extreme cases of like entitlement, like, oh, I'm pregnant and you must wait on me handed foot, like that kind of a thing, which is an extreme case, not a normal case. I think most women aren't like that. But sometimes it is merited for them to be like, he never takes care of me because maybe he doesn't. Right, exactly. Right. There are men out there who don't
00:09:15
Speaker
Have any compassion on the pregnancy journey and I do think I mean, what do you think about this? You have taken what two birthing classes a total of like 18 weeks of birthing classes So you have a really good grasp on what pregnancy does to a woman's body? what what that process is like how it
Postpartum Support and Recovery
00:09:36
Speaker
feels for her and
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was very enlightening to go to those classes and not just like learn alongside you. I think like it's not really a popular thing anymore because like back in the 90s, you know, you'd go to Lamaze with your wife and do the breathing exercises.
00:10:03
Speaker
I think I still do that. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm sure, but like, you know, there's a little bit of, I don't know, like a trend, but now it's like, just, it's not thought much of anymore of like going to the birthing classes and... Together. Yeah, together. Like it's just kind of a thing of the past.
00:10:27
Speaker
for most people it might be i know that a lot of the birthing classes are a lot shorter now they're at the hospital they're like you know two or three weeks sometimes are just as an aside the birthing class that we took was a bradley class and it was 12 weeks long and it was extremely helpful it was a little expensive but it was totally worth the money and then we went through another six week class with our second child because we switched midwives and she required the education part for
00:10:57
Speaker
her patients. So between the two of us, we had two of those babies, we had 18 weeks of birthing education. Certified doula. Josh is basically a certified doula. But I think your point is good in that because you went through those classes, you got a really good understanding of like the nutritional needs and how hard breastfeeding could be and what was necessary for a birth to happen and all of this stuff.
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah. And most of all, like the demand on like your body. Yeah. The toll it takes. Do you remember like when you first thought about that, like what your response was or how you felt about it? It was a while ago, but it was, I mean, I think I did have a point where just a lot of compassion, you know, kind of struck me and
00:11:55
Speaker
I was like, wow, that takes that much to put out a baby. Yes, it does. Knowing that pregnancy can be very, very hard on women's bodies and that they're going through
00:12:14
Speaker
a time when their hormones are changing and you know, they're tired and women's because of their hormonal changes. Some women have a really high sex drive during pregnancy. Some women have a really low sex drive during pregnancy, which is its own effect in and of itself, you know, that impacts
00:12:34
Speaker
your intimacy in the bedroom which can impact you know how you relate to one another and you know that changes some things. So what would you say like if you could give some advice to a husband whose wife is pregnant with her first child on how he could support her during pregnancy, what would you say?
00:12:56
Speaker
find out what her cravings are and get a lot of them and always have them around. Even if it's pickles or pickled herring. Yeah, like, you know, she depended on the woman, of course, like as everyone's different.
00:13:15
Speaker
Some people, it really takes a toll on their body to develop the baby. And there's the first trimester is typically the sickest for most. And I think you need a lot of grace for that, especially if they're always feeling sick.
00:13:36
Speaker
when you're trying to do things or live life or take the kids somewhere or even drive in the car, it's like, oh, I feel sick. It's like, I'm not even swerving. I think it does take a lot of patience in that regard.
00:13:55
Speaker
You make a point to have that patience as well as reassure her. That was one thing, reassure her that she's still beautiful, even though she has a baby grown in her. I think that was really important for you just to be reassured that you are still attractive and just affirm her and your attraction to her.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a big difference. I think that during pregnancy too, one thing to remember as the wife is that though we're carrying the baby, there is an element of compassion that we have to have for
00:14:43
Speaker
our husbands. So sometimes what can happen during pregnancy is it's all about the mom. And obviously our bodies are changing and growing this baby. It's a huge miracle. It's the beautiful part of Christian marriage. It's the design. One of the primary designs of sex is procreation. It's an important part of God's design. However, at the same time, you have to remember that
00:15:09
Speaker
Your husband is going through a lot of changes too. He's going through this emotional transition to being a dad and that can be really hard.
00:15:21
Speaker
sometimes guys really struggle at work because they're like, holy cow, I am becoming a provider and I wanna make sure I can make ends meet and so they become more stressed or maybe they didn't have a great dad and they start to think, oh my gosh, how am I going to be a good dad to this child? And so there's a lot of factors for your husband too that I think don't
Introducing "The Flirtation Experiment"
00:15:45
Speaker
get talked about because pregnancy is mainly about the mom.
00:15:49
Speaker
And so I have had three babies and I've had baby showers and I've been celebrated and it's been wonderful but I do think that for the most part when I was pregnant people never asked about Josh or how he was doing or how he felt about it. It was always me because I had the baby inside me.
00:16:11
Speaker
But it's his baby. And I do think there's an element of compassion that has to happen there in order for a marriage to thrive during pregnancy. Yeah. Especially if I'm the one holding up her arms. Yeah. If we're going back to that analogy of like holding up someone's arms, you're taking, in my mind, you're taking turns holding up one another's arms to use the Moses analogy, like,
00:16:36
Speaker
Sometimes he'll be holding you up and sometimes you'll be holding him up as you walk through this really exciting, beautiful time.
00:16:46
Speaker
If you're listening to this marriage series, there's a good chance that you or someone you love is married. And that's fantastic because on December 7th, my brand new co-authored marriage book is launching into the world. It's called The Flirtation Experiment. And if that title intrigues you, good, because I can't wait for wives to pick this book up and be encouraged and equipped
00:17:12
Speaker
to pursue their husbands in ways they maybe never expected to do so. When I wrote this book, I was looking back on a year when I was really struggling to cultivate a relationship with Josh. I felt lonely, I felt disconnected, and I realized that I could wait for him to change it or I could make the change. And so I made a list of 30 flirtations
00:17:37
Speaker
all different kinds of ways to show him that I loved him. And through this experiment, I found that I actually was changed. I co-authored this book with my friend, Lisa Jacobson, who's been married 28 years to my eight years. And we alternate chapters showing you the ideas that we used to cultivate an intimate and fun, romantic and flirtatious marriage.
00:18:02
Speaker
You can pre-order the book now. Anywhere books are sold from Amazon to Barnes & Noble, the Christian book, or you can go to the flirtationexperiment.com to get two free chapters in the introduction and to be notified when the book launches. I hope you guys will grab it. We have some awesome bonuses for those who pre-order, and I'm excited to get this book into your hands.
00:18:26
Speaker
So the second thing I want to talk about because I want to keep us on track so that we don't take up too much time is the postpartum
Postpartum Challenges and Solutions
00:18:34
Speaker
season. So pregnancy you're anticipating this little baby and you have this little baby and sometimes the birth is pretty smooth sometimes it's complicated or traumatic
00:18:47
Speaker
emergency C-sections, things like that happen. And either way, you're going to have a significant recovery process. So if you were to tell young husbands how they can support their wives in the postpartum season, what would your advice be? Well, I think that there's definitely like a lot of different outcomes from the birth, you know, that depended on the person, you know, recovery time and
00:19:16
Speaker
It can be a really hard time for a lot of people. So I think also men, the first thing that comes to mind is that it can take a number of weeks for the woman to heal to the point they can have sex. And so that's always the biggest concern for some people. And I think that
00:19:42
Speaker
you know that has to be like affirmed with her that you still love her regardless of not being able to share that connection and you just like need to like support her through that because she spent like she's just drained and though is such a blessing to have the baby like that she has to go through some serious recovery to re-knit herself and
00:20:11
Speaker
So I think like I previously would get you a book and lock you in your room and be like you know you're upstairs for a reason because you can't go downstairs and you're just stay in your room don't come out and I'll bring you your meals and
00:20:31
Speaker
It was so sweet. But that, I think, allowed her to have a quicker recovery because she's not having to spend her energy on things that are unnecessary. She can sleep and heal and feed the baby when it needs it and then just be cared for and enjoy the peace that comes after that.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, I've said we have three children, ages six, four, and one. And so our one-year-old obviously was born last year and he was the first baby I had that Josh was home more than five days after I had him.
00:21:12
Speaker
With the other kids, he was home, I think five days without a line and maybe three or four with Eva. It was a long weekend with Eva. Yeah, which that opens a whole can of worms on maternity leave and paternity leave and all the problems there, but it is...
00:21:30
Speaker
the nature of living in the US, that that's just how it is for a lot of families and that's how it was for us. And so with our most recent baby, we actually had Josh home. Josh was home for that postpartum time.
00:21:46
Speaker
And he did that. He bought me a book and he made me stay in my room and he brought me my meals and I got to rest and sleep and feed the baby. And my recovery was so much faster because he cared for me and he was sensitive to my body's needs. And he knew how my body worked and what my body needed, which is what those birthing classes did, I think.
00:22:10
Speaker
Um, really helped with just giving him the perspective to have compassion. I think sometimes we don't have compassion on things because we don't understand them. We don't understand the experience. And I do think a lot of men
00:22:23
Speaker
just don't know what it takes to have a baby and birthing classes kind of stand in for what maybe the family did back, you know, years and years ago in history where they would have been more aware of maybe how that worked because people were having babies in homes all the time.
00:22:41
Speaker
But whatever the case, I think that the Burling classes really gave him perspective and then he actively chose to show me compassion during that time. And it helped my recovery be 10 times better than with our previous two children. And that was just such a gift.
00:22:58
Speaker
Obviously, not everyone will have their husband home for, you know, two, three, four weeks after they have a baby. I've experienced less than that two times. But I think that really the biggest part of what you did was that you had the heart of compassion for my experience. And that was what was so helpful.
Intimacy Post-Pregnancy
00:23:21
Speaker
Okay, before we wrap up this episode, I do want to circle back around to the sex issue because you mentioned that a lot of guys will be thinking about that, you know, four to six weeks abstaining.
00:23:36
Speaker
And a lot of women will be thinking about it too, because a lot of women have high sex drives in marriage as well. And some women are the higher drive spouse. And so they might be the ones who are more interested and are yet still healing. And so Josh, do you have any thoughts on just having compassion? I know you already mentioned a few things, but just the mentality we should have towards sexuality in marriage and like our rights to it.
00:24:05
Speaker
especially around pregnancy and postpartum. Yeah. I think, you know, the Bible says that you should only abstain for a time when you both agree on it. But I think it kind of goes without saying that like a medical reason is kind of like a forced agreement.
00:24:26
Speaker
You know, it's just something that you have to be considerate about. And, you know, it doesn't mean that, like, you can't do anything. It's just, you know, like, what you're not able to do for medical reasons, but... What would you say, because I've gotten messages about this before, what would you say when a wife says, well, my husband heard from the doctor that we can't have sex for four to six weeks.
00:24:54
Speaker
And he just doesn't think he can make it that long and he wants me to do X, Y, and Z. What would you say in that circumstance? Not as a counselor, but as just a husband, a Christian husband? I think that would depend on like what she's feel, feels comfortable with. And, you know, obviously there's alternatives, but like what is, you know, the
00:25:22
Speaker
like the huge need there, and is there a healthy relationship there that would allow the comfort of alternatives? Do you think that, I'm not trying to ask leading questions, but like, I guess I've wondered as a wife, why some, a man who maybe lived as a celibate single man for years can't wait four to six weeks for his wife to recover.
00:25:50
Speaker
I think everyone gets used to things and they don't like change. So there is a matter of habit and tolerance and just, you know, it's different than what they're used to. So having something taken away is never a pleasant thing for people, but sometimes it just has to be something you're understanding about and considerate.
00:26:18
Speaker
And I guess too, when we talked about in our sexual sin episode, if that's a part, if that's playing a part in it. Yeah, I think you have to like, have open communication with one another and, you know, have that
00:26:34
Speaker
talk where you're like, you know, I don't know, like I'm struggling with like waiting for you. Um, yeah. And it's like making it difficult for me to stay like holy. So maybe that would be like an allowable, um, you know, opportunity for her to be more comfortable with an alternative. Hmm.
00:27:04
Speaker
And we're obviously not listing out alternatives. We keep saying the word alternatives here, but I don't know if this will be censored or not.
00:27:13
Speaker
I don't know if you say certain words, if it'll be censored. I should probably look into that. But obviously there are biblical approaches to things that you can do outside of sex that leadeth to babies. But I just think that basically what you're saying is there has to be understanding and compassion on both sides. That the husband can't be like, well, I'm entitled. It's been six weeks, so I need to be able to
00:27:42
Speaker
have sex with you, regardless of how you're feeling. There has to be an understanding, but there also does have to be a compassion from the wife because yes, he should be able to abstain that entire time. And he shouldn't be saying like, I need this or else, you know, that's unhealthy and selfish, but also to understand that if you were being intimate on a regular basis,
00:28:05
Speaker
frequently and then you know you have to take six weeks off then yeah there's going to be a pattern that's been interrupted and there has to be some compassion for that and of course we're using the example of the man wanting to be intimate
00:28:23
Speaker
while the woman is on bed rest, but obviously sometimes the wife oftentimes is higher drive. So it's not to say that that doesn't happen at all. And that's happened in our marriage. We've had ups and downs where one spouse was higher drive and the other was at different times. I think there's a lot of assumption like, Oh, like, you know, I'm all gross. He doesn't want to have sex with me.
00:28:46
Speaker
like just coming out of pregnancy are you are you quoting me is that what you're are you quoting someone you know no and so like you know maybe she's wanted to all along and he was like wow she hasn't wanted to go along and like there's just a lot of assumption and so that's why i was saying you know there just has to be like an open dialogue about where each of you are at
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah and how you feel and now I don't like the term your needs because sex is not a dire need like a need to survive. It is it is an intimacy. It's a unity. It's a privilege, but you can live without it.
00:29:33
Speaker
but communicating to one another like your desires and what you're going through and being willing to listen to both people. I do think that as a wife sometimes I would feel like well I carry the baby and I birth the baby and I nurse the baby so that's my trump card and everything that you care about is doesn't matter because I'm the one who did all this and that isn't the right heart or mentality either.
00:29:59
Speaker
And so we just have to keep that verse you read from Romans 12, that I'll do one another in showing honor, show brotherly affection. How would I treat another person who is an image bearer of God? That doesn't change when it's my spouse and it doesn't change when it's my spouse and me going through pregnancy and postpartum.
00:30:19
Speaker
So obviously this is a really tender time and we're just sharing kind of our experience and things we've had to work through with communication and our thoughts on the matter. But we highly, highly recommend if you're really struggling postpartum to see a counselor because postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety make this so much harder. See a counselor, get the help you need.
Community Support in Parenting
00:30:44
Speaker
And I also recommend
00:30:46
Speaker
Well, I won't say I recommend, but I'll say that I saw my midwife and a functional medicine doctor to get supplements I needed to help support my body postpartum that made a big difference. Made sure to stay in community with other people. Josh, you too had to be in community with people. Other men.
00:31:06
Speaker
to really help support you in that transition and all of that together will help you in your marriage because parenting little kiddos is no joke and especially when your body is recovering and you're both tired it's it's just a time when you need that support so it's an exciting time it also can be a difficult time and so we just want to encourage you to get the help you need. Okay we will see you guys next week when we talk about marriage and parenting.
Connect with Felicia
00:31:34
Speaker
Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Verity. You can connect with fellow listeners by following me on Instagram at Felicia Masonheimer or on our Facebook page by the same name. Also visit FeliciaMasonheimer.com for links to each episode and the show notes.