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00:00:01
S1E4: The Most Sacred (Black Folks)
18 Plays29 days ago
This episode will discuss what gender is (and isn’t), how it’s influenced by white supremacy and why Black folks should care. The episode will also explore the differences between patriarchal and matriarchal societies and learn who the most sacred Black folks are.
Trigger Warning: Mentions of transphobia, homophobia, misogyny, misogynoir, mentions of sexual assault and other instances of patriarchal violence and abuse.
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Transcript
Introduction and Trigger Warning
00:00:01
Books, BBQ & Black History
All right, welcome back to Books, Barbecue, and Black History. Thank you all so much for your patience. I wanted to make sure that this was a good episode, so just had to go back and re-record it. So today, oh, let me introduce myself again. So my name is Toya. I am a North Carolina-based social scientist, educator, and organizer with an abolitionist praxis. And Today, this episode is actually going to be about gender. So before I kind of get into anything, I want to go ahead and give a trigger warning that this episode is going to contain references to or discussions about of transphobia, homophobia, misogyny.
Defining Gender and Its Connections
00:00:44
Books, BBQ & Black History
Misogynoir mentions of sexual assault child abuse and other instances of patriarchal violence and abuse so please be sure to take care of your mental health but those will be things that will be discussed at some point through this episode so
00:01:00
Books, BBQ & Black History
This is an episode about gender and what we'll be talking about specifically is what gender actually is. We will be talking a little bit about the difference between patriarchy and matriarchy.
00:01:13
Books, BBQ & Black History
We'll talk about feminism. We'll talk about how patriarchy is connected to white supremacy. And of course, wrap all of that up with why Black people need to know about this and why they should care about this. But before i actually do anything, of course, I have to start with my excerpt of the day. So I want to read this excerpt of the day and then we'll come back around to that at the end of the episode. And I will explain, i will give you the name of the book and I will tell you why I have chosen this particular book for this particular episode. So here goes.
Systemic Biases and Gender vs. Sex
00:01:46
Books, BBQ & Black History
How often did you end up in places like Bridewell? I lost count child. And the thing is, it only takes one time to realize there's nothing wrong with you. You didn't cause any pain to some other person to end up there.
00:01:58
Books, BBQ & Black History
Some cop was having a daydream where you made a pass at him and got mad when he woke up and you weren't there. So he decided to take it out on you and put you in a padded room. So what I did was learn the things you have to say to get yourself out of there and to stay safe.
00:02:12
Books, BBQ & Black History
A lot of the girls before our Bellevue even happened to me would sit and we would talk together in groups about psychiatrists or doctors or nurses and go down the line and tell each other what this doctor or that nurse needed to hear so we could get ourselves out of that situation.
00:02:26
Books, BBQ & Black History
Maybe you were lucky and your doctor had one half of one seventh of a conscience. So you play off that. Living with these feelings inside of me is so hard to deal with. Whether or not it was really hard for you.
00:02:39
Books, BBQ & Black History
Once you told the people there, you'd get a sigh of sympathy. Oh, you poor dear. You learn to do and say what you needed to say to keep yourself safe and get out of that situation. So by say the fifth time, you're out of there in no time. You learn to say what they want to hear because no matter how they try to change you, they can't kill who you truly are deep inside.
00:03:00
Books, BBQ & Black History
Was there ever a time when you thought maybe there's a chance the police could be reformed? As a Black person, no. As soon as I got arrested, it changed my point of view as to what the justice system was. I saw when I went to jail for the first time that it isn't fair. It isn't just. The white boy that was with me went home while I went to a cell. The system was never set up to be fair and what prisons were made to do, they're doing. The people who make 99% of the laws, they set it up precisely so the laws protect them and their greedy asses from the rest of us. The laws are almost never set up to protect us. And in the few cases that they are, they break them.
00:03:37
Books, BBQ & Black History
It's that simple. So we will come back to that, you know, a little bit later. But I really want to start this conversation talking about what gender... it Actually, usually when I'm talking about this, I start with what gender isn't. And then I go into what gender actually is. So what gender isn't is sex. Okay.
00:03:58
Books, BBQ & Black History
So when we are talking about sex, sex refers to the physical or physiological differences between males and females. Most cultures only classify two categories. That means binary. That's male and female. But we do have babies that are born intersex. And that's just a broad term in the medical profession to classify individuals with a mix of male and female categories.
00:04:20
Books, BBQ & Black History
biological characteristics. So when we are talking about sex, those physiological differences are going to be related to your your what is it your primary, secondary reproductive characteristics. So that would be body hair, that would be having a deep voice, that would be your genitals, that would be, you know, your breasts, it would be anything that is kind of related to that. And the most important thing to kind of understand about sex is that when you are talking about sex, you are not talking about gender. So once you start getting into conversations about the body to make that as the definition of gender, you're already having an incorrect conversation. So the first part of understanding gender is understanding that sex and gender are not the same thing. When you were talking about body parts, you are generally talking about sex, those, again, those physiological differences. So if we're talking about how that is not gender, so I know the question becomes like, well, what is gender? So gender refers to the behaviors, personal traits, and social positions that society attributes to being a man or a woman,
00:05:29
Books, BBQ & Black History
or whatever those categories are within those societies. and In that definition, I would you know like to point out that like none of that had anything to do with body parts. So again, gender refers to behaviors, personal traits, and social positions that society attributes to whatever the gender categories are within your society. And so in this society, in American society, the mainstream idea about gender is focused on the gender binary, just saying that there
Gender as a Social Construct
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Books, BBQ & Black History
are only two genders, men and women, and we'll build that out.
00:06:05
Books, BBQ & Black History
So really important to understand the body does not define gender because gender and sex are not the same thing. So... This is the kind of thing where, or kind of conversation where if you don't have like that baseline understanding of like what the words actually mean, then you're not gonna have a productive conversation in what you're talking about. So conceptually, gender and sex are not the same thing. I generally am doing research church or like teaching about gender and I teach about gender because gender is a social construction. And we'll talk about that in a moment and about what it means to be socially constructed. But when we talk about gender, we also have a common need to have a conversation about how people express gender. And so when we're talking about masculinity and femininity, masculinity just refers to qualities, characteristics, or roles conventionally associated with men. Femininity characterizes the traits, roles, and behaviors typically associated with women in a given and society. So I just want to say that like, this is talking about these are associated with particular gender identities, but they do not belong to anybody. So masculine traits, sometimes people that are, I'm sorry, traits that are considered masculine or associated with masculinity might be suppressing, you know, certain sorts of emotions, assertiveness, aggressiveness. Those things are generally considered masculine, whereas with femininity,
00:07:33
Books, BBQ & Black History
The idea of being nurturing and empathetic and non-aggressive and submissive and sensitive. Like those are the things that are associated with femininity, but men can be empathetic and nurturing and sensitive just as women can be,
00:07:49
Books, BBQ & Black History
can suppress their emotions, be assertive, be aggressive. So all these things that people are saying like, oh you know, you got to be masculine, you got to be feminine. These are human traits. They're literally just human traits, but they tend to like be associated with particular genders. But like anybody can be like any of these different things. So masculinity does not belong to men and femininity does not belong to women. And when people push those as like they have to inherently belong to those particular categories. I really hate to tell you, but that is also form of white supremacy, but we'll get into that a little bit later.
00:08:26
Books, BBQ & Black History
The next thing I want to talk about is now that we know that there's a difference between gender and sex, gender is a social construction. I would argue that sex is also a social construction, but I won't, you know, get into that per se, but gender is a social construction in the sense of, it was created socially by people. And so people create the meaning for it. And because people are creating the meaning for it, it means that it can look different across time. It can look different across locations. It can look different across like different social groups, different cultures. So gender is something that is very much taught to us. And I'm gonna give you a couple examples. of how gender is something that is socially constructed. So I'm gonna give two examples. So the first one I want to talk about are gender reveals. These are actually my favorite things to talk about to make this point. So I want you to think about how long you have known gender reveals to be around. I'll give you a second to think about it.
00:09:28
Books, BBQ & Black History
And we'll come back to that i will say so i want you to think about gender reveals and what happens with you know gender reveals so at a gender reveal you know there's usually the colors pink and blue it will say it's a cake someone cuts open a cake people assume that the child is a girl if it is a girl you know she's gonna like dolls she's gonna be you know emotional she's gonna be girly you know whatever that means she's gonna you know want you know particular types of toys she's gonna like to dress up she's gonna like makeup like these very quote-unquote feminine things are being associated with her and we're assuming you know it's a her and when we are doing these gender reveals so that i'm sorry so you cut the cake open it's pink
00:10:19
Books, BBQ & Black History
say we do this again, we cut the cake it's blue. Assumption is, you know, blue is a boy, you know, he is going to be aggressive, you know, we're going to have to, you know, make sure he isn't, you know, running around doing too much.
00:10:33
Books, BBQ & Black History
He's going to be more assertive. He's going to want to get dirty, you know, those sorts of things. and And the question I always love to ask people, you know, when they're talking about like gender reveals and having this sort of conversation is like, What what do you actually know about that child?
00:10:49
Books, BBQ & Black History
You know, at a gender reveal? Because even, you know, the idea of associating pink with a girl is the assumption that girls like pink. And, you know, that's just an assumption. So you don't really know anything about the child. Actually, I take that back. We do know something. Generally, we know the sex of the child. And because a lot of people associate sex and gender, you know, as the same thing,
00:11:13
Books, BBQ & Black History
you're really not revealing gender. I actually call them genital reveals because you're not really revealing the gender of the child because you can't reveal the gender of a child because that's their you know personal identity until the child like lets you know who they are. So we can assume who children are, but we really can't make that decision for them.
00:11:35
Books, BBQ & Black History
And what's also interesting about, you know, gender reveals and this conversation about socialization is I want you to think about have you ever seen people get upset about the revealing of the gender of the child, like the being upset about the gender the child is revealed as. And I find that interesting because you don't know that person.
00:11:57
Books, BBQ & Black History
So, you know, being upset about the gender of your child also is an indication that we have expectations that are associated with gender. Even before that child, you know, enters into the world, we already are placing expectations on who we assume that child is going to be. Because, you know, again, if you don't know that child and their gender is revealed to you, like, what is, like, And I won't call to reveal, but like someone tells you what the you assume the gender to be like, what, what do you really know about them? What is to be disappointed unless you already have an expectation of who you think that that child is going to be.
00:12:32
Books, BBQ & Black History
And so that is a part of kind of that social creation of this identity. So again, before we even have the children in the world already, you know, pink is a little girl. She's going to be this. She's going to be that blue little boy. He's going to be this. He's going to be that. But we we don't really know any of this until we meet the child. And,
00:12:52
Books, BBQ & Black History
Now I'm going to back it back up to talk about like the history of gender reveals. And the first gender reveal was actually in 2008. I am older than a gender reveal. If you were born before 2008, you are also older than gender reveals, or at least the iteration of how they are presented today. So Jenna Karvunidis is credited as the inventor of gender reveals. In 2008, Jenna shared a blog called High Gloss and Sauce talking about how she wanted to share the excitement of her pregnancy with family and friends so she had a cake with pink icing inside and that was the first I would say like iteration of a gender reveal and
00:13:39
Books, BBQ & Black History
What's really interesting about that is that Jenna is actually, you know, won't say upset, but Jenna is actually not happy about the way that that blog post that she had took off into the gender reveals that we actually see today. Because she felt like...
00:13:57
Books, BBQ & Black History
you know Kind of like I just said before, that it started making you know people place expectations on children before they even get there, you know just based off of you know kind of these arbitrary things. And what's even more interesting about it, not just that Jenna regrets that she kind of made this popular, but also, or just created it as like a thing, but also that the child that she did this for that she revealed as a little girl actually gets older, gets the language to kind of understand themselves. And the
00:14:32
Books, BBQ & Black History
child is non-binary. So the very first gender reveal that happened, the parent misgendered their child and they regret that they actually did it, which again, I find to be, you know, just interesting. And another part about the socialization part, because part of socialization is like teaching people social identities and the social order of society. So social identities in our society are, you know, with gender, the gender binary would be men and women, you know, boys and girls. And that matches up to, again, the social order of our society, because the expectation is that those are the only identities within our society. So I also want you to think about, the fact think about have you ever seen a gender reveal where a where a child is revealed to be a gender other than a girl or a boy?
00:15:19
Books, BBQ & Black History
And I would say that's also a part of that social construction, because what I can tell you and what you're going to find as we go through this episode is that there are absolutely more genders than just girls and boys, men and women. And so by not including that in this particular like social gender reveal would be like a social part of like a social script, but not including any other identities in that you reaffirm the gender binary. So gender reveals, again, aren't really gender reveals because you can't really reveal them, but they are a part of the socialization process and like constructing gender for us within our society. So it just adds to that creation of, oh, well, only, you know, men and women and girls and boys exist. Here's another, you know, ritual we can do to kind of make that idea more salient.
00:16:08
Books, BBQ & Black History
So that is the first example of gender being socially constructed. And the thing about like social constructions and socialization is a lot of this is also going to happen with kids. Because developmentally, if you know anything about like child development, there are certain things you have to teach kids when they are really, really young, or it becomes like very, very difficult to get them to retain that information when they get older. So a lot of socialization actually happens as children. And a lot of times we don't even recognize that it's happening. So another really great example of gender socialization is i want to talk about this idea of of women being primary caregivers for children because of the idea that women are more nurturing than
Socialization and Gender Roles
00:16:52
Books, BBQ & Black History
men. so
00:16:55
Books, BBQ & Black History
I'm to start there and then to give you a little bit of like child psychology and, you know, social science to kind of unpack that. So the idea is that women are to be the primary caregivers over men because they are just naturally more nurturing. So let's talk a little bit about socialization, gender and child development.
00:17:14
Books, BBQ & Black History
So I'm not going to get too deep into this because, you know, this isn't that type of podcast, but there's a guy by the name of George Herbert Mead, and he is white, so I ain't really trying to give him too much credit, but this little stages of of self that he has are very relevant. So in the stages of self, this is really just talking about how children don't have an identity. And this changes as they grow, as they do like a lot of like socio-cultural, emotional like learning, you know, with seeing the people around them. So like they like young babies, like I would say up to two about mimicking, you know, the people around them. That is like developmentally like how they're learning to communicate, like mimicking the people that are around them. But I want to talk about another stage. So that stage I just mentioned is called the preparatory stage. This one we're about to talk about is called the play stage under means stages of self.
00:18:07
Books, BBQ & Black History
So in the play stage, this is about from age two to six for kids. Children pretend. And if you have ever played with a child or try to play a game with a child from the age of two to six, they got a lot of rules that you already know. They're not really into, you know, rules. They're going to do whatever they want to do. So the best games to play with them are the games of imagination.
00:18:28
Books, BBQ & Black History
So one of those games of imagination that a lot of children end up playing, because this is also about emulating what they see around them so that they can learn, you know, have a, their own identity for themselves. So they have to learn that from the people around them. And so when they play house, generally they're emulating what they have seen around them. So the game of house is, you know, children will essentially pretend to be mommy or daddy And how they behave is going to depend on, you know, their observations. So when that game of house is happening, generally the assumed girl child is going to be the one who is expected to play mom. And if she's playing mom, The toys she might have might be brooms and kitchen you know kitchen toys and doll babies. And that would be like her you know her
00:19:15
Books, BBQ & Black History
tools, you know I guess, to play that game. Where we have the assumed boy child, he would be expected to be the dad in that game. And, you know, the toys he might get are like toolkits and, you know, cars and, you know, just just various things related to like generally some sort of work or like some sort of like physical labor or, you know, grill set, those sorts of things. And like whenever I start naming those things, you know, I hope it gets the ball rolling about like, you know, well, we're giving, you know, these toys to these particular kids. But remember, I said that this is really a conversation about socialization and teaching kids about gender. so
00:19:55
Books, BBQ & Black History
those same kids that are playing this game of house, if that little boy decides that, you know what, I actually want to be mommy in this game of house. And I want to, you know, play with the baby dolls. I want to, you know, play with the kitchen set. And while there are, you know, those of us that don't see an issue with that, there's going to be a lot of people that are not okay with that little boy wanting to play with that baby doll and get discouraged from like playing with that and, you know, playing with the kitchen toys and those sorts of things. And that is gender socialization.
00:20:28
Books, BBQ & Black History
That is literally gender socialization because you are literally affirming or you know negating certain behaviors that children are doing because you want them to behave a certain way according to the gender and the gender roles you assume that they are supposed to engage in. So a little boy isn't supposed to play with it. dolls because that's a girl thing.
00:20:47
Books, BBQ & Black History
That's a girl thing. But when you're playing that game a house and you're playing with the dolls, what you're also doing in that game is you are also reiterating gender roles. So if we have little, you know, little girls being given toys of kitchen sets, of cleaning sets, of doll babies and being encouraged to use those. And then at the same time, telling little boys like, oh no, that's not yours. You don't need to do that. That is, you know, girl stuff. Now guess what happens as they grow up?
00:21:15
Books, BBQ & Black History
As they grow up and, you know, the little girls have had this time, you know, to basically practice. You're practicing for like the roles that people kind of expect you to be in as an adult. And so now we have, you know, these little girls who have had of,
00:21:32
Books, BBQ & Black History
years of being kind of trained in domestic work. Cause that's what it is. Domestic work is like anything like being done around the house. So we have them being trained in domestic work for years and, you know, boys not necessarily having that same sort of,
00:21:49
Books, BBQ & Black History
socialization or being encouraged to do those same sorts of things. And what happens, and we see this happening like statistically, is that, you know, the idea is now that, oh, well, you know, women are just more nurturing. they That's why they're, you know, taking care of, you know, the kids. But as a social scientist, what I would say is that if you had years of practice doing something, you would probably be good at it too. Yeah. And so it's not that women are more nurturing. It's that we are literally socialized from you know children to engage in like you know certain behaviors. And so if you know you were taught from a certain age that you know you know this is how you take care of a house, this is how you cook, you know you should be interested in this, and then discourage another group from doing that, then that's going to show up in adulthood.
00:22:38
Books, BBQ & Black History
And so the idea that women are more nurturing than men is actually a very, it is a myth. It is not true. It is a behavior that is socially learned. Like our, like, like nurturing is something that anybody can be like that is literally just a human trait and a lot of this has to do again with how we are socialized you know as children of what we encourage and discourage you know children from doing because one of the things that your family is actually responsible for is like teaching you about gender and it's not always as explicit saying like girls do this or boys do this it's in watching what people do like around the holidays what do you see the different genders of your family doing? Do you see the women doing all the cooking? Do you see the men, you know, just sitting around doing stuff? Do you see them participating in the cooking? Who do you see, like, raising kids? Who do you see, you know, doing these sorts of things? That is how you learn about gender. And so when we are talking about gender as a social construction, again, it's really important to understand that, like, this is not a biological identity. These are things we actually learn you know as we are you know growing and like, yeah, i would just say like growing, we're always being socialized, but these are things, like gender is something we actually learn. And there's actually, you know not to get too deep into it, but there are actually theories out there who say that like, you know actually gender is
Sexuality and Patriarchy
00:23:57
Books, BBQ & Black History
a performance. So you are performing your gender you know, for other people. But, but yeah, so that is essentially kind of the baseline of understanding, like when we're talking about gender is that gender is a social construction. So whenever you talk about gender and biology and all of that, I really hate to tell you that you're wrong. Well, actually I don't, but you are wrong in your conversation because gender and sex are conceptually different things. And as someone who like teaches about it and researches it and lives it, you know, in my experience,
00:24:27
Books, BBQ & Black History
it's really important to differentiate those because the conflation of gender and sex also is used to engage in violence against people but we'll talk about that later also want to define sexuality sexuality is describing an individual's pattern of attraction it can be emotional romantic or sexual or even a combination combination of these or just none you get not being attracted anyone is also asexuality Sexuality is also a social construction in the sense of there are many different sexualities. and Sexuality is like actually innate to people.
00:25:06
Books, BBQ & Black History
And again, it's not necessarily sexual. like That's the part I feel like people miss sometimes. Because like even when you're thinking about like a sexual orientation, like i i like i think about like having...
00:25:19
Books, BBQ & Black History
you know, a first crush and being very, very young and having a crush. And, you know, for a lot of people, I, you know, I can speak for myself, but I was like six or seven, like very young. And like, I don't know why I like the person that I like. I just know I like that person. And to me, that is what it means to be innate is that this is just something that you are. And,
00:25:42
Books, BBQ & Black History
That's just what it is. So like, you know, sexuality is something that like, as people change throughout their life, like they might find better ways to describe themselves, they might learn things about themselves. And so, you know, sexuality just exists on a spectrum, it is not you know, something that may be static for people. And I feel like, you know, that's that's one thing I would say is really hard with people with social science. It's like understanding the world is like not just black and white. I would actually say it's a spectrum of gray. So it's like all of these different things at once. It's not just, you know, one or the other, which is what, you know,
00:26:19
Books, BBQ & Black History
Living in a binary so society tells you have to be, you have to be this or you are this. Like, there is no, like, in between. And that's not really how, you know, the world works. So that's a little bit about what gender is and what it isn't. i want to talk a little bit now about patriarchies and matriarchies so i'm going to start talking about patriarchies then we'll get to matriarchies a little so patriarchy there there is literally in the same way that you cannot talk about race without talking about white supremacy there is no conversation to be had about gender without talking about patriarchy So patriarchy is a social system that is structured around men. Generally, they hold power over women in political and social spaces. I like to start with the definition of patriarchy, but I actually believe that the concept of cis-heteropatriarchy
00:27:07
Books, BBQ & Black History
which I learned from you know just reading lots of Black LGBTQIA authors and just being in community, just learning all of this. But cis-hetero patriarchy is actually what I would consider a better description of the social hierarchy related to gender. And so cis-heteropatriarchy is a system of power and control that positions cisgender heterosexual white men as superior and normative in their expression of gender and sexuality. And I specifically like this definition of kind of describing the social structure instead of just patriarchy, because it also includes the understanding that there are different identities that people hold at
00:27:51
Books, BBQ & Black History
different times and they create unique experiences, you know, under patriarchy. So, you know, and it also, it it introduces the idea that patriarchy isn't just about men.
00:28:02
Books, BBQ & Black History
Because I think if you just focus on men, you miss a lot of the other violence that ends up happening out there. So, you know, with cisgender people, And the violence that they can, you know, commit against, you know, transgender people and, you know, heterosexual people and the violence they can commit against really anybody that isn't heterosexual. Then those become a part of the conversation when you name this as cis-heteropatriarchy.
00:28:26
Books, BBQ & Black History
Also, you know, putting race in there because race also matters because, you know, white men have the most amount of power within that system. But it doesn't mean that men of other races don't also, you know, have that power as well, which we'll talk about, you know, in a moment. In all known patriarchies, there are generally negative meanings attributed to women and their activities.
00:28:47
Books, BBQ & Black History
These symbols and myths may be different in different cultures, but within each culture, they attribute negative meanings to the to women or the feminine. Shulamith Firestone discusses how human reproduction, which happens in MaGes which stands for marginalized genders, bodies, is legally appropriated and controlled by men, I'm going to be specific, cishet men, and is used to benefit cishet men or to keep marginalized genders at the mercy of men. So these are just talking about kind of some of the things that you're going to see in a cis hetero patriarchal society. And I'm going build that out more because even though this is about like the United States, this is, you know, talking about the society that, you know, I'm living in. Patriarchy extends far past the borders of, you know the United States. It is actually one of the oldest forms of oppression. So this is not even specific to this particular society. It's not specific to being colonized. because this existed even before the United States.
00:29:46
Books, BBQ & Black History
But patriarchal societies generally protect the authority of men. There is compulsive masculinity. So boys are socialized to be ashamed of behaviors that are considered childish or feminine. There tends to be economic constraints and discrimination against people who are not men within the society.
00:30:04
Books, BBQ & Black History
women bear the burden of child rearing, there are usually denigrations of single families and negative attitudes towards divorce, there are, I don't like using the word traditional because traditions are varied, you know, between people, but there are very strict expectations of women's roles as like wife being a wife or mother. And those are characteristics. It doesn't matter what patriarchal society that you were talking about. These are things that you're going to find in them because this is a part of like, you know, patriarchy. so a little bit about the consequences of patriarchal hierarchy specifically like here in the U S because one thing I really like to point out when talking about things like this is like, this is not a conversation about individual behavior. This is a conversation about systems.
00:30:50
Books, BBQ & Black History
systems and like how they impact people. So some consequences, systemic consequences of patriarchal hierarchies in the U.S. First of all, are gender wage gaps. Any field that is dominated by women in society generally pays less money.
00:31:09
Books, BBQ & Black History
And even outside of that, people who are not men are paid less money for same work, no matter if they are of the same skill set. That is a consequence of the gender hierarchy and devaluing, I don't say just devaluing, but putting people into hierarchies based on their gender. So people who are not at the top, who are not you know the men, or I'll say cishet white men,
00:31:35
Books, BBQ & Black History
fall somewhere else within that hierarchy but you're paid less simply because you fall lower in the hierarchy that is a consequence of it uh we also have a lot of the laws so i'm gonna just read some of these laws when they were passed and then we'll you know talk a little more but some of the laws that are related to these patriarchal hierarchies because remember who is making these laws A lot of the times it's men. So let's talk about some of these laws that disenfranchise women systemically. 1769, American colonies based their laws on English common law. It said by marriage, the husband and wife are one person in the law.
00:32:13
Books, BBQ & Black History
The very being and legal existence of the woman is suspended during marriage or at least is incorporated into that. of her husband under whose wing and protection she performs everything layman's terms what that means is that when you are married as a woman you're you're you don't you don't have no voice your husband is your voice is suspended and you know i would argue in 1769 they won't let women vote anyway but that is an example of a systemic way of disenfranchising you know women 1777 all states in the united states pass laws which take away women's rights to vote 1920 the 19th amendment to the u.s constitution is ratified this is when white women get the right to vote got to be specific because white women
00:33:01
Books, BBQ & Black History
were the first ones to get the right to vote. So anytime they talk about the 19th Amendment, I really needed to be pointed out that white women got the right to vote before any other group of women. And that's important to talk about. 1963, we get the Equal Pay Act passed in com on Congress, promising equitable wages for the same work, regardless of race, color, religion, or national origin, or sex of the worker. So before 1963, women less.
00:33:29
Books, BBQ & Black History
because they were women. And that was the law. 1972, the Supreme Court rules that the right to privacy encompasses an unmarried person's right to use contraceptives. What does that mean? That before 1972, that meant that unmarried people did not have like the right to privacy, you know, to use contraceptives. So this again is that conversation about control of the body, right?
00:33:59
Books, BBQ & Black History
1974 housing discrimination on the basis of sex and credit against women are outlawed by Congress so I know people people may have been hearing people talk about like you know grandmothers not being able to have credit and you know all of that and like this is that's the law That's the law. 1974. You know, won't say this one specifically, but it's around this time that we are now talking about like women getting like financial freedom. That's why, again, the conversations about like women being like too independent is so interesting because I'm just like...
00:34:32
Books, BBQ & Black History
do you know that like they couldn't have bank accounts? Like it matters, you know, to have financial independence, you know, to take care of yourself. So those are just some examples. And like, there were so many more that I could choose. Those were just ones I picked out for this episode. But like, that's an indication that like, it's not just that we're talking about like feelings of like, you know, of being disenfranchised, like literally built into the law. You know, the, we talked about,
00:34:58
Books, BBQ & Black History
you know, amendment, amendment to even be included, you know, in this conversation about being able to vote. so there is a long history of disenfranchising people based on their gender, you know, within the society. Uh, we also, in and now i' kind of get into, You know, the autonomy of body.
Reproductive Justice and Patriarchal Laws
00:35:16
Books, BBQ & Black History
So Roe v. Wade, I didn't mention that in the laws because I wanted to get that its own special section. But Roe v. Wade, which was really talking about abortion access, I would say, was passed in 1973, but it was overturned in you know, and I don't want to spend too much time specifically on Roe v. Wade. I'm just bringing that up as another law that kind of demonstrates this, this, you know, conversation about patriarchy and about power, you know, to have an impact on someone's life because the people that overturned roe v. Wade, a majority of those people, like, don't have the ability to have children, like, and the people who that,
00:36:01
Books, BBQ & Black History
you know, this particular law impacted the most were not a part of the conversation of, you know, anything like happening. So the law was essentially overturned by men.
00:36:15
Books, BBQ & Black History
Like, and, you know, i want to point out, you know, trans men can also have children as well, but this was a law overturned specifically by cishet men. And that really has to be said because that is a part of like that disenfranchising of people based on, you know, their gender identity. Because they're not even in the space to be able to, you know, make these conversations, to even make these decisions. And so the Roe v. Wade being overturned is really a small part of a larger conversation about reproductive justice. So Sister Song defines reproduct reproductive justice as the human right to maintain personal bodily autonomy, have children, not have children, and parent the children we have in safe and sustainable environments.
00:37:00
Books, BBQ & Black History
Indigenous women, women of color, trans people have always fought for reproductive justice, but the, and I'm sorry, I said women of color, let be specific, Black women, have always fought for reproductive justice, but the term was invented in 1994. And and This was because you know they recognized that the women's rights movement led by and representing middle class and wealthy white women could not defend the needs of Black women or or other marginalized genders, trans people.
00:37:30
Books, BBQ & Black History
Because that wasn't really, you know, their focus. So there had to be a larger conversation about, you know, the bodily autonomy. Because, you know, I haven't even gotten into the gender part, but like, even though i'm saying all this stuff, you know, as a Black person, a black you know person marginalized by gender, then we already know that like,
00:37:50
Books, BBQ & Black History
there has never really been a time we've had like full autonomy over our bodies, you know, as black people. And then you add the gender on, you know, on top of that. So that becomes, again, an important conversation again about like part of oppression is like not having full rights over like your own destiny, your own body, your own autonomy. That's something that's like really important.
00:38:13
Books, BBQ & Black History
And this conversation again about, you know, reproductive justice and having the right to make these choices for yourself. I would also point out that in North Carolina, because I'm always going to light North Carolina up when I see, you know, certain things, but in North Carolina, you know, recently, 2026, because I don't know how long this is going to but 2026, there were North Carolina Republicans trying to create a law that allows people allows people to be murdered for using birth control or getting an abortion. and and I'll read you what it says. House Bill 1232 states, any person who willfully seeks to destroy the life of another person by any means at any stage of life or succeeds in doing so shall be held accountable for attempted murder or for first-degree murder, respectively. The bill goes on to say any person has the right to defend his or her own life or the life of another person, even by the use of deadly force, if necessary. And advocates warned that the language written into that bill implied that anyone could use lethal force against someone seeking an abortion or a physician involved in performing one. Or if you're using birth control or like it, it is just so vague. And the whole premise of it is that, you know, this is to protect the life of the unborn child and, you know, murdering someone to protect a child is a interesting argument to make. And again, this was literally a few weeks ago in North Carolina. So that's why it's kind of, you know, ridiculous. And I bring this up because another part of patriarchy that, you know, has to be talked about or, you know, cis-heteropatriarchy is that
00:40:01
Books, BBQ & Black History
Abuse and violence are used to uphold that system because patriarchal isn patriarchy isn't a natural hierarchy in the same way that, oh, I'm sorry, cis-heteropatriarchy is not a natural hierarchy in the same way that white supremacy is not a natural hierarchy.
Violence and Gender Inequality
00:40:16
Books, BBQ & Black History
So abuse and violence must be used to essentially maintain that hierarchy. So patriarchal and violence include sexual assault, intimate partner violence, criminalization of you know pregnancy, child abuse,
00:40:33
Books, BBQ & Black History
man i i'm sorry it's like so much but there are many different forms of patriarchal violence and the whole purpose of patriarchal violence is to again uphold the gender hierarchy of cis hetero patriarchy and also to exert control and power over these you know groups of people and so let's talk a little bit about this violence you know and i'm i'm specifically going to use sexual violence right now to make this point of like how normalized it is and you know just give you a little bit of statistics about it so this is these are statistics about the perpetrators of sexual violence from RAINN which stands for Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, when they're talking about the perpetrators of sexual violence, 60% of sexual, I'm sorry, 60% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim. Child abuse, people who abuse children sexually, 93% of those victims know they're abusers.
00:41:34
Books, BBQ & Black History
Perpetrators of custodial sex abuse. This is talking about people who are incarcerated. 60% of sexual violence against inmates is done by the institution staff.
00:41:45
Books, BBQ & Black History
demographics of who is committing this. 50% of these perpetrators are 30 or older. 57% of these perpetrators are white. When we are talking about people who are, and I'm sorry, 98% of perpetrators of these crimes will walk free. I'm going to revisit that statistic because I'm going to revisit that.
00:42:07
Books, BBQ & Black History
When we're talking about the victims of sexual violence, nearly every minute someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted, every nine minutes that someone is a child, 69% of sexual assault victims are between the ages of 12 and 34, one in six women in the U.S. has experienced, attempted, or completed rape in their lifetime, one out of every 10 rape victims are male, 82% of All the juvenile victims are female. 90% of adult rape victims are female. And a majority of these crimes are committed by men.
00:42:41
Books, BBQ & Black History
And
00:42:43
Books, BBQ & Black History
I think that people hear that and hear an accusation and it is just stating a fact. Because majority of the these, this is what it means when we're talking about like gendered crimes. And I'm specifically talking about sexual violence and abuse because these are crimes of power.
00:43:02
Books, BBQ & Black History
These are crimes of power because if you notice in those statistics, a lot of those victims are children. And given what's happening in the United States right now, these these numbers really shouldn't even be surprising. And also want to point out the demographics of why a majority of the people that commit these crimes are white. We're going to get into, you know, black people in a moment, but a majority of people who commit the sexual violence crimes are white.
00:43:26
Books, BBQ & Black History
And when you know the history of this society, then it will make sense why white people are going to be overrepresented in this. So like lots of conversation about black on black crime, you know, all that. I am telling you that a majority of these crimes tend to be committed by white people.
00:43:42
Books, BBQ & Black History
And specifically, you know, white men. And I'm saying this. And if again, if you're paying attention to what's happening in the world right now, this is no surprise. We, you know, we know it is. And if you were a black person, definitely not a surprise. We know what this is. So I'm pointing out again, these statistics about, you know, this violence that is present within this system, because There are actually societies that don't even have, you know, domestic violence, that don't have, you know, rape, don't have sexual assault.
00:44:11
Books, BBQ & Black History
And, you know, for these statistics to look the way they do, you know, the president is a pedophile. And the only way that he could get into a position like that is if that sort of sexual violence is or sexual behavior is allowed within the society. And, you know,
00:44:28
Books, BBQ & Black History
One of the things that if you read a lot about patriarchy, you read, you know, the the people that are like studying it. Like one of the things that is is very much understood is that, again, sexual abuse is a tool to control people in patriarchal societies. So patriarchies generally have a lot of sexual assault happening in them.
00:44:51
Books, BBQ & Black History
And it's because of that idea of part of the power within our society is like dominating other people. That's why the sexual abuse is essentially used. And and I'll say this and I'll kind of move on from this particular part. But...
00:45:07
Books, BBQ & Black History
One of the things I remember reading, and I wish I remember who actually said this, but I remember reading somewhere someone saying that patriarchy unchecked leads to pedophilia. And i am of a firm belief that that is actually true, seeing what I've seen, knowing what I know, and just studying, you know, the structure in itself. And so it is really important for me to kind of lift these things up because of the things that are happening you know, in the world right now. So this is a conversation again about, you know, the violence that is used to uphold, you know, the gender hierarchy, because even though i'm talking about, you know, the sexual violence, it's also a conversation about child abuse and child abuse is also patriarchal violence. And I'll get into that in a later episode about my own research, but I want to talk about a particular type of child abuse
00:46:01
Books, BBQ & Black History
And I and i know you know this is about gender, but I'm going to talk about children because children are also disenfranchised under patriarchy. So i want to concentrate on the people that are the most disenfranchised under this. And so I want to talk about another form of child abuse that most people probably don't even know is legal within our society, but that's child marriage. So child marriage is a harmful practice and is a very explicit manifestation of gender inequality. it disproportionately, affects, young girls and child marriage occurs in one or both of the parties, of marriage are below the age of 18. Child marriage is currently legal in 33 States, in the United States, three U S States do not require any minimum age for marriage. and
00:46:47
Books, BBQ & Black History
overwhelmingly these child marriages are young girls being married to adult men. Also really interesting when I was like learning about this is talking about child marriage and statutory rape. So statutory, the, so,
00:47:02
Books, BBQ & Black History
trying to get this out. So statutory rape occurs when one of the parties is below the age of consent. And it doesn't matter if it is forcible or not, because a minor cannot legally provide consent. However, in most states, child marriage is considered a valid defense to statutory rape, meaning that if a child is married, that it is no longer considered statutory rape.
00:47:27
Books, BBQ & Black History
And The fact that that is a thing within our society, again, says something. Also very interesting about North Carolina. I'm just read what I what i saw. And all these things I'm saying, to make available to you when I share my syllabus, but I just have to say these things. In 2020, the International Center for Research on Women... released new data that estimated North Carolina to be among the top five U.S. states in terms of child marriages.
00:47:54
Books, BBQ & Black History
The overwhelming majority of those marriages were between a minor and an adult. And alarmingly, 57% of these marriages involved 14 and 15-year-olds with age gaps large enough to constitute a felony offense under the state's statutory rape laws. And Again, like sometimes I'm not even looking for this stuff. It just shows up. So, yeah. So for all these conversations about protecting children, there's a lot of loopholes for people to abuse children within you
Bigotry and Alternative Societies
00:48:25
Books, BBQ & Black History
know our society. And again, this is a conversation about who's making the laws, who is most represented in those positions of power. Yeah.
00:48:33
Books, BBQ & Black History
moving forward there's also bigotry that results from hetero patriarchy and bigotry is really just a commitment to a unfounded or or yeah i'll say unfounded belief or a belief that just isn't true so misogyny is an example of bigotry misogyny and extreme form of sexism that is defined as the hatred of women homophobia fear hatred or discomfort uh with people who are lesbian gay or bisexual biphobia fear hatred discomfort of people who are bisexual transphobia fear hatred discomfort of people who are transgender gender queer or don't follow traditional gender norms and these ideas are important to talk about and i'm not going to say like they're direct
00:49:19
Books, BBQ & Black History
they're all from patriarchy, but patriarchy lifts up these ideas as it's it's normal to essentially have them, I would say. And these are important to talk about because these attitudes lead to people being denied jobs, housing, health care, just because they are of a particular gender identity, of a particular you know sexual orientation. This leads to you have negative attitudes Derogatory language, name calling Bullying, abuse, violence Genocide, which we'll talk about Patriarchal societies In general posit Lots of things connected to women Or femininity as less valuable But on the other hand Because i want to you know leave it there But on the other hand we also have matriarchies We have other social systems And the assumption is often That a
00:50:08
Books, BBQ & Black History
matriarchy would be a patriarchy with women. But let's talk about what that actually is in actuality. So matriarchal society is a social system where women hold primary power, oftentimes leading their families, clans, tribes, or states. And in these societies, inheritance and lineage are typically traced through the female line known as matrilineal order, which dictates property ownership and kinship. So I'm a read about a couple of matriarchal societies. I'm not going to spend too much time on these right now because we're going to build them out you know as we continue talking.
00:50:40
Books, BBQ & Black History
So a couple of matriarchal societies would be India's Qasi tribe. In Qasi culture, property and wealth are inherited through the female line and women have a strong say in household and community decisions. Women are also free to choose their own partners and divorce is not stigmatized.
00:50:57
Books, BBQ & Black History
Ghana's Akan people. The Akan people of Ghana have a matriarchal society. where, again, inheritance and succession are traced through the female line. they Women hold a high status in this culture and often make important decisions regarding family and community affairs. Men still hold positions of power in government and religious institutions, but women have a strong presence in a con society. What I'll say about matriarchies before I move on to the next point is that something I find really interesting about matriarchal societies and how they're different from patriarchal societies is that matriarchal societies are very community oriented.
00:51:34
Books, BBQ & Black History
There is more sexual autonomy for people within that society who are not men. Children are taken care of as a community. I didn't i haven't seen like a lot of nuclear families in matriarchal societies. The gender roles are not necessarily placed in a hierarchy, I would say. So there's a lot more respect for the work that is done by the feminine, I guess, like characteristics and work and all of that. And like what I really love about matriarchal societies is that they center children.
00:52:07
Books, BBQ & Black History
Patriarchal society center men, matriarchal society center children, not actually women. And I think that that's a really big difference in like how they actually function. And you know we'll get into that a little bit more. But that to me is like one of the biggest differences between a matriarchal and patriarchal society.
00:52:24
Books, BBQ & Black History
Also, want to mention feminism. Feminism is a social, academic, and cultural movement aimed at interrogating and changing the economic, civil, and ideological disparities between men, women, and those who identify outside the look gender binary.
00:52:38
Books, BBQ & Black History
I'm not even going to take time to talk about white feminism because I'm not interested in that. I'm going to specifically focus on Black feminism. So Black feminism has the same you know vision of you know looking at these disparities between people of different gender identities and wanting equity for all of them. But there's also the addition of understanding that you have to talk about, you know, race and classism and, you know, ability. All of those things also matter. Your immigration status, all of those things also matter. I'm sorry, nationality specifically when we're talking about a person because white women problems are not necessarily, you know, Black women problems because that conversation about like, you know, having a right to vote, like white women went up for their right to vote, but didn't consider like,
00:53:27
Books, BBQ & Black History
you know, black women and, you know, not really having any rights or being seen as a human. So Black feminism is really born out of that. And there are many different types of Black it's called Black feminism, but there are many types of Black feminisms, but that's generally what they have in common is looking at more than just gender. We're looking at the intersections, you know, different identities. There's also queer theory, and that can be summarized as exploring the oppressive power of dominant norms, particularly relating to sexuality.
00:53:55
Books, BBQ & Black History
An idea that comes out of that would be heteronormativity. And heteronormativity denotes, talking about a worldview that promotes heterosexuality as the normal or preferred sexual orientation. This is the idea that you know homosexuality is a phase. Media representation of majority you know heterosexual couples. the parental disapproval of LGBTQIA children, as if like heterosexuality, heterosexual is the only thing that they could be. These are all a part of that idea of heteronormativity, when heterosexuality is just a type of sexuality, it's not the only sexuality that people can be.
Intersectionality in Feminism and Theory
00:54:31
Books, BBQ & Black History
under Black feminism, I want, in queer theory, I want to just note some black marginalized genders who have influenced me. And this is a reminder to always, you know, cite black people, cite black women. Kimberly Crenshaw and her idea of intersectionality is something that I, you know, learned and was really important to me. Intersectionality describes the bias and violence against black women. It is a framework through which you can see where power comes and collides where interlocks and intersects this is related to patricia hill collins a matrix of domination patricia hill collins is a so black sociologist a black feminist she describes four interrelated domains that organize power relations in society and i won't get too deep into that because
00:55:17
Books, BBQ & Black History
Patricia be in her bag. So Patricia Hill Collins has a very robust explanation of, again, how these intersecting identities and structures create unique experiences for people. And that, again, is is kind of take I won't say a play, but like it's related to intersectionality, but Patricia Hill called it Matrix of Domination is more of a sociological framework, I should say. We also have the concepts of misogynoir and trans misogynoir, and this comes from Moya Bailey and Trudy. Misogynoir is a specific type of misogyny that has its roots in racism. and the anti-Black racist misogyny that Black women specifically experience. Trans misogynoir is similar, but it highlights the intersection between transphobia, misogyny, and anti-Blackness. And this term was coined by the writer Trudy, misogynoir from Moya Bailey. Angela Davis, gotta always bring her up because she is literally my introduction to abolition. Our Prisons Obsolete is like one of,
00:56:25
Books, BBQ & Black History
like my favorite books Beth Ritchie i've i've said this before as well but like beth ritchie informs most of the work that i do i will talk about her in you know my research when i do that episode so you know just lifting her up as well but but those are all Black MaGes who influenced me And what they all did was they gave me language to describe my experience as a Black woman. And it's something that's so powerful about having the words to name the things that are happening to you, because now you can connect with other people who also have, you know, that experience. So like all of those are people who, and I, you know, there are many more, but these are just the ones that I could fit in this episode.
00:57:06
Books, BBQ & Black History
So next thing I want to talk about is how patriarchy is connected to white supremacy. Because yeah, patriarchy and white supremacy kind of work hand in hand. So
Patriarchy, White Supremacy, and LGBTQIA Struggles
00:57:17
Books, BBQ & Black History
cis hetero patriarchy is a part of white supremacy because just like white supremacy, or you know racial supremacy it places people into a gender sexuality age hierarchy and it uses violence to maintain it the same way that again white supremacy places people into racial hierarchies and uses violence to maintain it
00:57:40
Books, BBQ & Black History
When we're talking about kind of the historical context for this, that's also important because when we're talking about patriarchy and gender, so enslaved, so first of all, enslaved people had no gender because they were considered property, chattel. They were treated like livestock, so they were bred like livestock. And I'm bringing that up as well because you are more likely to learn about cotton, rice, sugar plantations than breeding plantations. But there are books like the American Slave Coast, History of the Slave Breeding Industry that really explore this idea of how the breeding of human beings was integral to the formation of the United States. And
00:58:24
Books, BBQ & Black History
That part of the conversation really gets left out because, again, it says a lot about the society that was willing to do that. And because these sexual assaults were happening to people who were not considered you know human beings, there was no crime committed. Because if you are not a person, if you are just a thing, if you are just chattel, if you are a property, you cannot be a victim.
00:58:50
Books, BBQ & Black History
So we already have the structure set up for, we've already created a identity within our society where these people can never be victims. Black people can never be victims of violence because your body does not belong to you. And that's how it has always started. And again, so you add on top of that, now you add gender to it and you have that, you know, additional, you know, hierarchy. And,
00:59:16
Books, BBQ & Black History
women, you know, even when we're talking about, again, this this historical context, women or people who were not men were not considered full people, even in the Constitution when the country was created.
00:59:28
Books, BBQ & Black History
enslaved girls and women like i said they were literally bred like animals implicitly noting that black women and people in general could not be victims of assault because again you don't have rights to your own body and i would also say that there's a reason why you aren't encouraged to read like autobiographies of people like Harriet Jacobs which i'm going talk about in the next episode you're not reading, you know, autobiographies about enslaved Black women, because if if you read those biographies, you're going to find out exactly what type of people, you know, the settlers were. and
01:00:03
Books, BBQ & Black History
even out you know outside of like the slavery aspect of it, there's also indigenous people who were here as well. So European colonists expected the indigenous people to assimilate into their belief and value systems, which included their religious beliefs. And this was done through murder and forced assimilation. So gender roles have always varied amongst many cultures, but but the settler colonial white supremacist U.S.,
01:00:29
Books, BBQ & Black History
idea of gender is that of the English settlers who colonized this land. That is the norms of our society. So the gender binary is an artifact of colonialism because how can there only be two genders when we, like, and I'm to name for you, but we can name pre-colonial gender identities.
01:00:48
Books, BBQ & Black History
So specifically, I'm go give you a couple, but so specifically here in the US, before the US was the US, we have two-spirit people. This is a term some indigenous North Americans have adopted to refer to people in their communities who are believed to embody both a male and female spirit.
01:01:05
Books, BBQ & Black History
Two-spirit people are seen as being uniquely able to see, you know, life from, what is it, male and female perspectives and to bridge the differences between them. And we also have the Hijra the Hijra. The Hijra are the most common non-binary identity identity recognized in gender i'm sorry in India today. Hijras are found in Hindu religious texts and throughout South Asian history. Many Hijra are born with male sexual characteristics, though the Hijra community also includes intersex peace people. In pre-colonial times, we also have women in West Africa who were conspicuous in high places. They led armies, they played important consultative roles in politics. And what that meant is that being a woman was not rigid in African, was not necessarily rigid in many African pre-colonial societies. And I'm reading all these things to say is that people had gender gender identities and gender fluidity before colonialism. And if you've learned nothing about, you know, your culture before it was colonized, then a lot of that stuff you're not going to necessarily have you know access to. And so this is why i'm I'm leading into this, why Black people really need to know about gender patriarchy and this connection to white supremacy. So the first one is that Black transgender people are experiencing age genocide.
01:02:34
Books, BBQ & Black History
And Black LGBTQIA people are being targeted by white supremacists intentionally. And it is because part of whites being assimilated into white supremacy is being assimilated into homophobic beliefs. transphobic beliefs and if the people in power understand that it is easier to strip people of their rights if you start with the people that people care the least about that are the most vulnerable and so transphobia and i'm not specifically saying that black people are more transphobic than anyone But we are also impacted by white supremacy and those sorts of beliefs. But transphobia is the reason why a lot of Black folks don't care that there are bills denying health care, you know, to trans people, stripping them of their ID, effectively giving them what we call a social death, where you can exist within society, but not actually be able to participate in society. And all the things that they're doing to, you know, trans people is like, it's Jim Crow.
01:03:38
Books, BBQ & Black History
So, yeah. you're Black and you're trans, you know, and and then we didn't even talk about adding in, you know, additional identities. So it means that you are even more at risk, you know, for this violence within society. And bigotry against Black trans people and other members of the Black LGBTQIA community community actually strengthens fascism. and And I have to say this because literally did a workshop about this today. And in the fight against fascism, specifically anti-Black fascism, Black LGBTQIA people and the way that they have organized is literally...
01:04:14
Books, BBQ & Black History
A part of how we are here today. And i have to say this because it is Pride Month. Not just because of that, but because it is true. Black people are a lot of things. There is no gay agenda. Black people are black and gay. They're black and. It is not you're just Black We are many different things. And, you know, it's really important for me to, like, say and lift these things up because of the things that i have seen, the things i have experienced. And,
01:04:42
Books, BBQ & Black History
I'm sorry, I'm getting them a little soapbox right now. look Let me move on. Cis-hetero patriarchy is also killing, you know, not just not just specifically not just specifically talking about, like, the genocide against Black trans people. It's literally killing and harming, you know, the Black community overall. Black femicide is a problem.
01:05:04
Books, BBQ & Black History
Black femicide is a problem. Femicide is defined as an intentional killing with gender-related motivation. It's different from homicide when the motivation may not be gender-related. Femicide is a global issue.
01:05:22
Books, BBQ & Black History
it is absolutely also a racial issue. In many cases of femicides, the murders are actually done by intimate partner or a family member. It can be related to rape or sexual violence. It can be related to, again, inter-partner abuse, that sort of thing. And...
01:05:46
Books, BBQ & Black History
It is again, something that's very common. The femicide of Black women in the U.S. is a major public health concern that has received minimal attention. Black women in the U.S., including Black trans women, are at an increased risk for murder, including but not limited to inter-partner homicide and homicide by the police relative to their white counterparts.
01:06:09
Books, BBQ & Black History
i really feel the need to to talk about this. And actually, my research will get more in into it. But i really feel the need to like make space for this because, you know, the
01:06:24
Books, BBQ & Black History
the murder of Black women is so... normalized and again that people don't even like really talk about it and part of the reason of not talking about it is because then we have to have that conversation about is who who is actually engaging in that behavior which I'll get into in a moment but when a majority of Black femicides are committed by someone that is within the family or someone that the person actually knows, then what that also says is that this is a problem like of what we call it, an interracial crime, meaning that these are crimes committed by people within the community. So who is killing, you know, these Black women? And the answer is overwhelmingly more often than not, it is Black men.
01:07:11
Books, BBQ & Black History
And I think that that is a hard conversation to have, but it is a honest conversation to have. It has been an issue because people don't really want to talk about it. But part, again, of of patriarchy is upholding patriarchy with violence. And that is something, you know, that actually happens.
01:07:30
Books, BBQ & Black History
Black people, you know, even though a lot of people are trying to assimilate into, you know, this cis-heteropatriarchal version of gender, we were never really, you know, included. And, you know, you don't have to be a man to harm somebody in a cis-heteropatriarchal structure. Cis-gender people can still, I'm sorry, yeah, cis people can still harm, you know, trans people.
01:07:56
Books, BBQ & Black History
Heterosexual people can still harm all other people. There's violence against LGBTQIA youth from adults. A lot of times that harm comes from their family and the church.
01:08:07
Books, BBQ & Black History
Child abuse is also a part of this. And this is something I'll talk about my research. And child abuse is also something I would say also kind of i would say building that out. is important because it also is around this idea of like women being nurturing also allows for ignoring that, you know, Black mamas can abuse their kids too.
01:08:30
Books, BBQ & Black History
And, you know, the the idea that women are naturally nurturing kind of negates that reality of like that actually happening. So, but I do want to, of course, also point out that, regardless of all of that, you know, men benefit from car patriarchy regardless of, you know, their race.
01:08:51
Books, BBQ & Black History
while men are still harmed under patriarchy in the same way that white supremacy harms white people, there is still a benefit that black men specifically get from patriarchy. And so I actually want to read a little bit off of this Black male privilege checklist.
01:09:10
Books, BBQ & Black History
that who jewel woods so this was written by a black man and this is really and actually i'm not even gonna tell you i'm gonna just read you a little bit of what it says and then i'm gonna talk about it a little so jewel woods this black male privileges checklist it looks like in 2008 and here's a little context of like why it was created in background and then i'll read you some of the things on the checklist so Inviting Black men and boys into a conversation about male privilege does not deny centuries of discrimination or the burden of racism that we continue to s suffer from today. As long as a Black man can be tasered nine times in 14 minutes, shot at 50 times in the morning of his wedding night, or receive less callbacks for a job than a white man with a felony record, we know that racist sexism that targets Black men is alive and kicking. Examining black male privileges offers black men and boys an opportunity to go beyond the old arguments of personal responsibility or blaming the man to gain a deeper level of insight into how issues of class and race are influenced by gender. Gender is one of the most important tools in the production and reproduction of power because it relies on consent and not just coercion.
01:10:17
Books, BBQ & Black History
The Black Male Privileges Checklist was born out of years of organizing men's groups and numerous and numerous often heated conversations I had with men while utilizing Barry Deutsch, the Black, I'm sorry, the Male Privilege check Checklist. In my experience, most men will object to at least some of the items on the checklist. However, men of color, especially African-American men, often had the sharper sharpest criticisms of the Male Privilege Checklist and the most problems related to the idea of male privilege.
01:10:47
Books, BBQ & Black History
Invariably, the Black male privileges checklist will inspire some men to create their own list describing the list of privileges they believe Black women benefit from. What men need to understand is that paying attention to male privilege does not mean that women are without faults. Rather, it means that Black men cannot be blind to the fact that Black men earn more than Black women do. Black men continue to dominate most of the political, religious, and cultural institutions within the Black community. And Black men continue to dominate Black women in areas of physical and sexual abuse.
01:11:14
Books, BBQ & Black History
So here are some of the things that are written on this Black male privileges checklist. When I read African American history textbooks, I will learn mainly about Black men.
01:11:24
Books, BBQ & Black History
When I learn about the civil rights movement and the Black power movements, most of the leaders that I will learn about will be Black men. I can live my life without ever having read Black feminist authors or knowing about Black women's history or Black women's issues. I can be part of a black liberation organization like the Black Panther Party, where an out rapist like Eldridge Cleaver can assume leadership position. My looks will not be the central standard by which my worth is valued by members of the opposite sex.
01:11:51
Books, BBQ & Black History
In general, I prefer being involved with younger women socially and sexually. In general, the more sexual partners I have, the more stature I receive among my peers. I have the privilege of not having black women dress up and play funny characters often overweight that are supposed to look like me for the entire relation entire nation to laugh.
01:12:10
Books, BBQ & Black History
I can believe that the success of the black family is dependent on returning men to their historical place within the family rather than in promoting policies that strengthen black women's independence or provide that social or provide or that provides social benefits to black children. I have the privilege of believing that a woman must submit to her man.
01:12:27
Books, BBQ & Black History
I have the privilege of believing that feminism is anti-black. yeah, and i'll I'll just stop there. But you you you kind of get the gist. And I, you know, this checklist is really interesting. And I really picked it because it was written by a black man. Because I think sometimes men need to hear stuff from men to even though like, you know, we be saying it. But I think that they need to hear it from men to like really understand. And like, you know, one of the things that it said in here was about, you know, like the black history part about how when you're even when you're learning black history, part of patriarchy is like more people are going to talk about black men when they start talking about civil rights movement than they are to talk about, you know, black women or black MaGes general.
Privilege and Gender Contributions
01:13:12
Books, BBQ & Black History
And to me, and so a couple of examples I have of that is I think about the North Carolina,
01:13:17
Books, BBQ & Black History
I'm sorry, the the, and I'll name it as they usually call it, is the North Carolina A&T sit-ins. Rarely are the Bennett Bells mentioned, and they're the only Black HBCU for Black women in North Carolina, and they were a very large part of, you know, the Woolworth counter, you know, sit-ins, but most of the time people talk about, you know, just the A&T four.
01:13:41
Books, BBQ & Black History
So, part of them being left out is again, that that conversation about like men's contributions kind of mattering more, you know, within those movements. and And I find that really interesting as someone who does a lot of organizing because I've been organizing for years now. And one thing I will point out is that most of the time, and if you organize for real, then you already know this to be true. But most of the time, Black MaGes are on the front lines of organizing work. And a lot of times the black men get lifted as the leaders, but a lot of that work that's done in the background generally is not done by black cis men. it just It just isn't. Or at least that hasn't been my experience. That's not generally what I read about in historical, you know, texts.
01:14:25
Books, BBQ & Black History
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but that has been what I have seen. Also want to note, I remember when I lived in Greensboro, when they did a black women and girls matter, know,
01:14:36
Books, BBQ & Black History
event in Greensboro i also noticed that like most of the people there were Black MaGes and when i say MaGes i mean marginalized gender so anyone who isn't a cisgender heterosexual man so like even in that space i noticed you know not showing up you know for that also you know just really interesting again about like who gets lifted up in those conversations about you know Black history and on my page like when i launched this page before the podcast was here for a Black history month i did a Black history month book list and on that list the one thing that i was like i want everybody on this list to not be a cishet man the only exception to that was
01:15:21
Books, BBQ & Black History
What was it? Was the We Charge Genocide Petition. but all of the people that I put on that list of, of, uh, for the month of February of like Black history reading, all of those people were not men.
01:15:36
Books, BBQ & Black History
And that was real. Well, won't say not men, but they were not cis-het men, but it was really important for me to make that point of including, you know, this for these groups of people, because a lot of times the people that's doing a lot of the work don't get, you know, any recognition for the work that they're doing. And,
01:15:55
Books, BBQ & Black History
I just think it's really important to name, you know, the people that are doing the work. Also, again, want reiterating that even though Black men experience, again, racism, patriarchy allows for these things, again, like the stories of Black men to be lifted up historically, as opposed to, you know, Black women or anyone that falls outside of the gender binary. Also, even conversations about like police brutality. Whenever I see people using the, you know, say her name, you know, hashtag without understanding that the reason that that hashtag was created by, if I'm not mistaken, the African-American Policy Forum, which is Kimberly Crenshaw's organization. But that hashtag was created because even in conversations about police brutality,
01:16:39
Books, BBQ & Black History
people who are not black men get left out. People treat police brutality as as if it is something that only happens to black men. And black women and black mages are also killed by the police. And that's where say her name comes from. So if you ever use say her name and it is not a black, and it's not for like a black mage, then you are using it incorrectly. And you are also contributing again to that erasure that the hashtag was essentially created for. And again, that is the result of patriarchy. Which again is is calling to the point about how you can be privileged in some ways and oppressed again in others.
01:17:18
Books, BBQ & Black History
really want to kind of wrap, the i guess, that part up with, like, Black men still have the power to utilize patriarchal power, even as they experience racism, the same way that I myself can utilize my class via my education and my gender identity as a cisgender person to harm people more marginalized than me. So just because you you are oppressed, again, in one way does not mean that you can't still harm person harm other people. And again, reiterating that you do not need to be a man to utilize patriarchal violence. Cis-et people do it by being transphobic and homophobic. Adults do it by the violence they use towards children. And in the same way, you don't need to be white to uphold white supremacy. You do not need to be a man to uphold cis-hetero patriarchy.
01:18:04
Books, BBQ & Black History
All you need to do is defend, justify, or participate in the harm that cisheteropatriarchy causes those that are marginalized in that system. We'll also note that religion does not negate patriarchal violence or
Sacredness of Gender-Expansive Identities
01:18:16
Books, BBQ & Black History
bigotry. So your religious beliefs, whatever they are, does not negate whether they are homophobic or transphobic or biphobic or whatever they are. misogynistic it does not change that it just provides context i would say to like those beliefs but like believe your your religious beliefs are a choice people's identities are who they are so one is one that you're choosing the other one is just inherently who someone is now my favorite part
01:18:45
Books, BBQ & Black History
is I want to talk about what I learned as a sociologist in my, i guess, learning about gender is i learned a lot about the sacredness of gender expansive people. I know that a lot of this episode has been about like violence and all of that, but I got to keep it real about the violence of patriarchy. But I also want to point out again that the sacredness of gender expansive people. So gender expansive people have been considered sacred in their cultural and in their cultures.
01:19:15
Books, BBQ & Black History
for a very long time. colonial The colonial values present and views about gender in the U.S. society makes it hard, I guess, for us to kind of see that. But... In many cultures, like I said, the Hijra, the two-spirit people, these were groups of people that were considered like sacred within their culture. And it really makes a lot of sense because if you exist outside of the binary, you exist outside of the confines of what people say like a human you know actually has to be. So if you can exist outside of that, i you know can totally understand the spiritual nature of that. You know, so in pre-colonial, and I'm, you know, concentrate the Black folks right now, but in pre-colonial Africa, there was also a lot of gender fluidity. And so due to the duality of, you know, their existence, these qualities of gender fluid people meant that they were better suited to serve as messengers between the human and spirit world. So I'm going share a few of these with you. So the Mwami prophets of the el Ila people in za Zambia were men who dressed as women, went about traditional women's work, and slept with women without having sex with them. Among the lu Lubara people, transgender individuals often carried out communication with the spirit world. Due to the duality of their existence, again, their qualities meant they were better suited to serve as messengers between the human and spirit worlds.
01:20:43
Books, BBQ & Black History
Let me see. Transgender women mediums are named okule, like women, and transgender men mediums were called okule, like men. The chibados of Angola were male diviners who channeled feminine spirits by acting like women. And the commonality between many of these examples, because these are only a few, but like I've read books where I have seen at least 60, 70 different gender identities just in pre-colonial Africa,
01:21:10
Books, BBQ & Black History
that exist. And women and men were nowhere in there, by the way. But the commonality between many of these examples is that they inhabited a spiritual role within their respective societies. They possess a dualistic gender identity, giving them unique power to communicate with the spiritual realm. And there's a very strong correlation between trans identity and being spiritually powerful in pre-colonial African societies. So So to be Black and exist outside of the colonial confines of who Black people are supposed to be, that's what makes trans people and non-binary people and genderqueer people so powerful. Because not only are they Black, but they also have you know a gender identity that has historical connections to... like
01:22:00
Books, BBQ & Black History
very sacred, you know, spirituality and like, I'm not sure, like, and for me, you know, to learn that just as a Black person, it just makes me have like, just so much more respect, you know, not that I didn't already have that, but just gives me like so much more respect for, this part of you
Understanding Pre-Colonial Gender Identities
01:22:16
Books, BBQ & Black History
know our community. And like this is literally why the episode is called The Most Sacred Black Folks, because the most sacred black folks are the transgender people, the non-binary people, the gender fluid people, those people who exist outside of the binary and are black, because it's already great to be black, so now you're black and you're this? So I'm just like...
01:22:37
Books, BBQ & Black History
You know, hopefully the rest, of you know, people will get to that one day. But like, you know, these are some of the most sacred black folks, you know, in our community. And look how the world treats them.
01:22:48
Books, BBQ & Black History
Look how the world treats them. these are often the people that are at the forefront of you know many human rights, civil rights movements and experience the most violence within the Black community. And part of the reason why Black trans people, genderqueer, genderfluid people, are non-binary people are targeted so much is because their existence actually exposes the lie of cisheteropatriarchy. that there are only two genders, that women are supposed to submit, that men are supposed to lead. You know, all these sorts of expectations of gender roles, they defy those.
01:23:25
Books, BBQ & Black History
They defy them because they understand it's not real. It's made up. Like somebody is trying to tell you who you have to be. And they said, no, I'm going to be myself. So you can't say that only two genders exist when we see all these different expressions of gender outside of the binary. When you read about all these people that existed in a variety of different gender identities before the first Europeans landed over here and genocide of the indigenous people, genocide that Black people stole them. And so it's really important for me for people to understand, again, our stories did not start with slavery. And so if you understand our stories did not start with slavery, then if you don't know anything about who we were beforehand, then all you're getting is a secondhand account of who people have told you that you are you know as a Black person.
01:24:12
Books, BBQ & Black History
So it's my little thing for that. So now I want to mention the book that I was reading an
Legacy of Miss Major and Community Resilience
01:24:18
Books, BBQ & Black History
excerpt from. So the book that I read an excerpt from for this episode is Miss Major Conversations with a Black Trans Revolutionary.
01:24:26
Books, BBQ & Black History
I'm sorry. Miss Major Speaks Conversations with a Black Trans Revolutionary, Toshio Maranek and Miss Major. So it was basically like a conversation. It's Pride Month. there's There's no way I couldn't center a Black trans woman for this episode. That would be ridiculous, honestly. So Miss Major Griffin Gracie, rest in power, is a legendary transgender activist, was known for many things in her community. She was known for getting Black trans women off the street and housed when they faced poverty and violence, advocating for trans rights.
01:25:01
Books, BBQ & Black History
She was known for demanding that LGBTQ people focus on protecting the most vulnerable among them. a veteran of the 1969 Stonewall Uprising in New York, she was known as a queer elder who did not want the past to be used for and as an excuse for inaction. The excerpt I read, Ms. Major talked about having to lie to other people about how they felt about like themselves so that they could gain like a small amount of empathy, which I thought, again, was really interesting. And she pointed out how like, even though, you know, we're saying what they want to hear, these people can try to change you, but they really can't kill your spirit. And that sounds very Black to me.
01:25:42
Books, BBQ & Black History
So I definitely resonate with that. She named the criminal justice system for what it was in a few system. and I'm sorry, in a few sentences, the criminal justice system functions the way that it's supposed to. Laws do not protect black people. And if they do, they change them.
01:25:58
Books, BBQ & Black History
I don't even have to tell y'all. It don't even matter what point in time that you hear this episode, there's going to be something that happened unless the United States doesn't exist anymore. There's going to be something that happened where it's an indication that there's a different justice system for Black people.
01:26:12
Books, BBQ & Black History
What I really got out of, you know, this book, you know, and learned from Miss Major in this interview is that, you know, people who are the most marginalized can give you the best analysis of society. So I know, like, and don't even want to say know, but like, I've already learned, like, trans people be no one.
01:26:31
Books, BBQ & Black History
Like, they be no one because they're existing within a society that, you know, in a variety of ways tries to show them that they shouldn't be here, even though their existence predates the society that they're living in. There's never been a point in time where trans people have not existed. We may have different names for, you know, different, you know, identities, but people have always existed outside of the binary. And part of what colonialism likes to do is it likes to alter, you know, the history. You can't tell like the true story. So you, we don't even know the names of the indigenous people. A lot of people of like the land that you're actually on before it was called whatever state that you're in.
01:27:09
Books, BBQ & Black History
So if you don't know even even the names of those people, then you don't know nothing about their culture. You don't know nothing about their gender identities, their religious practices or any of that. And yeah, But we'll start with you know what essentially white people have told us gender is and what what gender should look like, even though you know we're not necessarily a part of it. And I find you know Black LGBTQIA people, and specifically trans people, to be the most honest versions of who Black people are because they're living their lives without allowing white supremacy to dictate who they have told Black people are supposed to be.
01:27:48
Books, BBQ & Black History
And I guess that's my next point is like Black trans and queer people embody the Black liberatory spirit that so many Black people claim to have.
01:27:57
Books, BBQ & Black History
I think it says a lot that there are Black folks in the black community that have more smoke for trans people than they have for white people because where' like where's you know where's that energy going? It's just very interesting. There is no gay agenda.
01:28:12
Books, BBQ & Black History
There is no gay agenda in the Black community. There is no gay agenda. You've just been successfully assimilated into white supremacy. Black people have existed outside of the colonial definitions of gender and sexuality before white people ever set foot in motherland. So there is no gay agenda.
01:28:29
Books, BBQ & Black History
Black people without a gender analysis or who don't have the ability to engage how different identities intersect and create unique experiences, i would also say are very dangerous to Black liberation movements because it will again kind of be that reproduction of white supremacy with a Black face because I'm not interested in reproducing, you know, white supremacist hierarchies without, you know,
01:28:57
Books, BBQ & Black History
examining the harm you know that they've actually you know caused And I chose this particular book because in doing a lot of abolitionist work and organizing, and as a social scientist who studies you know these sorts of things, I understand that the erasure of Black transgender people and Black LGBTQIA people in general from Black history is intentional in the same way the erasure of Black history is intentional. A world
Inclusivity in Liberation Narratives
01:29:25
Books, BBQ & Black History
that is safe for Black people to thrive must include the most vulnerable and marginalized. So again, you cannot be pro-Black if you are homophobic. You cannot be pro-Black if you are transphobic because these are also people within our community. So the hatred of those people also is a hatred of Blackness. And I'll leave that there.
01:29:45
Books, BBQ & Black History
The people who are within the margins of the margins within the Black community are oftentimes the ones holding up leading these Black liberation movements. It's not the academics. It's not the celebrities. It's not the people that you see. It's oftentimes the people you don't ever hear about, you know, like Miss Major.
01:30:02
Books, BBQ & Black History
So the inspirational Black quote that I'm going to leave you with today comes from Pauly Murray, who I will talk about in the next episode because Pauli Murray is actually Black North Carolina history as well.
01:30:16
Books, BBQ & Black History
But the quote reads, when my brothers try to draw a circle to exclude me, I shall draw a larger circle to include them. When they speak out for the privileges of a puny group, I shall shout for the rights of all mankind. And this is inspirational because the you know One, Pauli Murray is a part of Black North Carolina history, but the things that I've learned and continue to learn about gender are precisely why I do not debate anybody's humanity or try to prove that there are more than two genders or you know any of those sorts of things.
01:30:51
Books, BBQ & Black History
Because i already know that... I'm not going to be a part of dehumanizing people. And I am in community with people of all different you know backgrounds. And it is very important for me to always lift up and make space and advocate for people who are more you know marginalized than me. Because at one point I was like, oh, I'm a Black cis woman. So you know I'm the most marginalized. And one of my very you know good queer homies let me know, like, actually, And, you know, I went on a journey with that. And I had to really understand that, like, you have to check yourself, you know, sometimes and humble yourself and realize that, you know, sometimes you are not, you are not the person that is the most vulnerable within the community.
01:31:39
Books, BBQ & Black History
Also brought this up because i actually think it's kind of wild for people to be more accepting of white people, of people in the black community specifically to be more accepting of white people, of predators, of abusers. than Black trans people, than Black LGBTQIA people. Because that's wild.
01:31:58
Books, BBQ & Black History
Because those are also the people within the community that are also doing a lot of, you know, like a lot of the work around police brutality that I see, around abolition that I do. It's a lot of queer people there.
01:32:12
Books, BBQ & Black History
it's a lot of queer people there. And I don't see a lot of black cis men there. And that's just made me being real. And I've been doing this for a long time. And so for me, it says something about,
01:32:24
Books, BBQ & Black History
who are you know who we decide to protect. And that to me is also, again, that indication of like you know patriarchy and really needing to have that conversation about it. Black cis-et men are not the most marginalized in the Black community in terms of gender. Are they marginalized? Absolutely, absolutely. But the idea that they are the most marginalized and that you know other people have privileges like over that is something that I think should be unpacked.
01:32:52
Books, BBQ & Black History
liberation really got to be for all people or else we're going to again produce white supremacy with Black faces. So conversations around patriarchy like actually really must be had because also in doing a lot of reading, if you read a lot if you read anything, wouldn't say anything, but a lot of you know writings by Black MaGes so marginalized genders, are going to talk about patriarchy, are going to talk about the gender dynamics. And so...
01:33:22
Books, BBQ & Black History
I personally do not take a lot of people seriously if there is no understanding that gender matters or that patriarchy is real. That is not a debate I tend to have with people, but I do think it's an important conversation to have. But I do want to leave with, of course, the the understanding that Black trans people,
01:33:41
Books, BBQ & Black History
Black LGBTQIA people are some of the most sacred people in our communities. and the liberation of Black people is very contingent on that group of people. Children, you know, some of the most vulnerable people under the system of patriarchy, people that are having babies. These are the people that I would say should be centered, you know, when we're talking about, you know, black liberation, because we'll just continue again, reproducing, you know, the same sorts of, you know, systems that we are trying to escape from. So again, these, it seems like we're getting longer, but this one was the episode for me that I had to put some time and effort into. So I am again, looking forward to continuing to learn with you and
01:34:33
Books, BBQ & Black History
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