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S1E7: Building Worlds With Black Youth
11 Plays8 days ago
This episode is inspired by what I’ve learned from Black youth over the years. This special episode will feature guests (for the first time). I’ll be having a conversation with some of my former students; NouNou, Tryll, Jeremiah will discuss the impact sociology has had on their life, what people need to know about Black youth and more.
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Transcript
Introduction to Special Episode
00:00:00
Speaker
Alright, so welcome back y'all to another episode of Books, Barbecue and Black History. This is a very special episode, but before I get into that, again I again am going to remind you my name is Toya. I am a North Carolina based sociologist, educator and organizer with the abolitionist practice.
00:00:19
Speaker
Today this episode is super special because is really going to be about what I've learned from students as an educator and just Black youth over the years.
00:00:31
Speaker
And before I get into like why this episode is so special, I want to read a couple of excerpts from my teaching philosophy when I started teaching about, this year will be eight years, I think. So I'm going to read a couple of excerpts to kind of ground this conversation.
00:00:47
Speaker
so Teaching is not just a passion for me. It is my life's purpose. One of the most useful lessons I learned from my academic mentors was you have to meet people where they are. As mundane as this advice was, it was it has become valuable a valuable tool in my shaping my teaching philosophy. I believe all students have the capacity to learn so long as they feel safe and the information is accessible.
00:01:10
Speaker
Thus, the foundation of my teaching philosophy and personal teaching goals is to foster a safe environment where all students have the chance to meet their full potential.
Impact of Caring Educators on Students
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm going to read the end. In short, the teachers who had the greatest impact on my passion for learning were not the ones who knew the information the best. It was the teachers who cared about my learning and well-being. I believe all students need to feel safe and connected to the educational process in order to succeed academically.
00:01:39
Speaker
Data has shown that traditionally underserved demographics, neurodivergent, LGBTQIA, Black people, Disabled people, poor people are negatively impacted within the classroom when social barriers are present. My relationship with my students and even the subject I chose to study is influenced by my belief that all students deserve to have access to a safe learning environment. So I wrote that, like I said, like at this point, like 10 years ago.
Education Beyond the Classroom for Black Youth
00:02:05
Speaker
And for me, it has been such a journey throughout like my education, my educational like career. And I don't just mean like in the classroom because I do a lot of education outside the classroom as well.
00:02:19
Speaker
But I always think about that philosophy like when I am kind of going through this process of like teaching because I feel like it's a very you know special thing. So in the spirit of kind of believing in like a safe space for you know Black young people, today this episode is really, really special because I have the opportunity to actually have this conversation with some of the students that I've had the pleasure of teaching over these past eight years at this point. So I'm going to go ahead and let them introduce you to themselves, and then we will start our conversation.
00:02:59
Speaker
So who would like to start?
00:03:02
Speaker
I'm gonna go ahead pick one. Go ahead, Jeremiah.
Former Students Share Experiences
00:03:05
Speaker
All right.
00:03:08
Speaker
Hello, my name is Jeremiah Washington. i have been a student with Professor Thomas, and I'm excited to be here. i want to be a higher ed professional one day and really impact students so that way they could have their well-being prioritized as well as the information in classroom. So I'm happy to be part of today's conversation. And All
00:03:34
Speaker
right. Thank you, Jeremiah. look i'll put you Go ahead, NouNou I'm sorry. Put y'all on the spot. It's okay. It's okay. Hey, y'all. My name is Nouselyne I also go by NouNou I also was a student of Professor Thomas. Also, Professor T is what I love to call her. But yeah, so...
00:03:55
Speaker
I am just excited to be on this podcast as a guest as well and just ready to start the conversation. Awesome, awesome. Peace, everybody.
00:04:08
Speaker
My name is Mantryll Williams. I go by Tryll I'm a North Carolina-based community organizer. I studied with Professor Thomas, I think, in back in 2021. And it was really transformational to my growth and experience.
00:04:23
Speaker
I... work in grassroots organizing and sit on the board for a number of organizations and yeah, just try to be engaged in my community as much as possible. But it's great to be on here with all y'all.
00:04:36
Speaker
All right. Awesome. Awesome. I'm very excited to have you all here. I already know how wonderful all of y'all are. I'm really glad to get the chance to kind of let other people see how wonderful y'all are. So let's go ahead and start our conversation. So the first question that I have for you all is, can you tell us what is something that you learned from me as either a teacher or as a community organizer? Because all of you, while you have been my students, I've also worked with all of you outside of the classroom in other aspects. So can you share with us, you know, let us know just something that you learned from me in either of those spaces?
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, I'm happy to go first. I think I could name a number of things, academic concepts, frameworks, philosophies that i learned in your class, but I think the most important thing I learned was how to show up and stand in my politic with confidence and rigor in an academic space.
00:05:45
Speaker
I think it does come with its fair share of risk, but there's also like a great amount of reward in the seeds that you're able to plant in other people and also the change you're able to make in the world. so Yeah, I think the biggest thing I learned was how to like be rigorous and confident and standing on my politics and values in the academic setting and being able to share that with people while i'm meeting them where they are.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's what i like to share.
00:06:11
Speaker
Thank you. I'd love to go next. I'd say for me, being able to be a student of yours and see the work you do on and off campus, it really helped me to look at knowledge outside of the classroom and be able to value lived experiences as knowledge, oral histories, and to really be able to kind of see what
00:06:41
Speaker
making that connection academically to community could be like with TAP and other organizations. And for me, it's made me a student that constantly wants to kind of use what I'm learning and not just kind of be isolated, if that makes sense. And so that commitment to service, I would say, is something that I feel like was very transferable across the experiences I've had with you.
00:07:11
Speaker
And I'm very grateful to have an instructor and even, I would say, a friend like you throughout my time as a student and post being a student.
00:07:23
Speaker
I like to say the same thing. But for me, the one the biggest thing that I've learned over the years, especially like you as a professor, is just being on the forefront of standing up for what you believe in.
00:07:36
Speaker
i know like you always said, closed mouths don't get fed. And I've learned that over the course of the years. It's been a tough thing for me, but now like it's really good to like really see what you do and throughout, like through a different lens. And I just, one, I want to be, I want to say how appreciative I am of you. Like Jeremiah said, not only just being like a professor, but also just being a friend as well. And just kind of just teaching us more about ourselves through like a different lens, if that makes sense.
00:08:13
Speaker
But yeah, just really just, yeah, it helped me grow, especially like as an educator myself and just using all like the tools that you have taught us, the tools that you have taught us, you know, like in class, but also getting to have the ability to use those tools to teach my kids as well. So that's one thing I really am appreciative, but, but yeah, just like really standing up for what you believe in because the way we live is tough. And we won't be able to fight or do what we want to do if we don't stand up. So, yeah, that that's my one thing.
Motivation Behind the Podcast
00:08:57
Speaker
I guess my question will be for you. My first question will be is as someone creating space for these conversations, what inspired you to start this podcast and center Black Voices overall?
00:09:11
Speaker
Oh man. So this, so I actually have an episode about this where I'll talk about this a little deeper, but the, yeah this really comes from, i do not like people telling me what I can and cannot do, especially when it comes to like being a black person and,
00:09:34
Speaker
I just recognize that there's a lot of information that a lot of Black people just do not have access to, very purposefully, by the way. And even a lot of the stuff that I learned about, some of it is like I recently have learned about it. And now just like, oh, my goodness, like, I got to tell somebody this information because a lot of it, a lot of the Black history I've learned hasn't been through, like, education or the school system. It's literally been, i had to go read something. I've been in community with somebody who introduced me so to some information. And I just feel like I didn't start learning about this information until I went to graduate school. And I think that this is information that should be accessible
00:10:20
Speaker
to pretty much everybody. And in a time where we see that a lot of, you know, Black history is being erased, I really think making space for people to learn this information that we are not taught about ourselves, and not just the Black history, but like the Black knowledge as well, that we aren't exposed to that people should be, because the more I learned about what we don't know, the more I'm like, oh, I know why they're not telling us this. because I understand now that Black people are survivors of genocide, Yeah. And so like understanding that means understanding that the erasure of Black history is like part of that genocide. So it's easy to deny it if you don't know that it even happened.
00:11:04
Speaker
So for me, it's really making a point of like, I think it's important for us to hear information about ourselves from people who, you know, look like us. And I consider this podcast one of those places where that can happen.
00:11:20
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:11:24
Speaker
What you were sharing made me think of this Lucille Clifton poem, Why Some People Be Mad at Me Sometimes. Yeah, she says, they asked me to remember, but they want me to remember their memories, and I keep remembering mine.
00:11:40
Speaker
So, yeah, feel like the space she created is like another space for reclaiming our own memory and not really being subjected to another person's narrative of our story. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I love that because yeah that is a very great description of what it's like to learn about your own history as a Black person.
Wisdom and Respect for Black Youth
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, so let me ask y'all another question now. A lot of conversations, especially when we're talking about you know Black people, one thing that I often notice is that Black youth are left out of those conversations. And if they are included, it's usually not in what I would consider like a positive light. So my question for you all is, what is something that you wish adults knew about Black youth?
00:12:28
Speaker
Who want to start? So i don't I don't mind going first. okay But yeah, something I wish adults knew about Black youth is probably that in terms of the fight for justice and equality, that Black youth really are serious and really are committed.
00:12:47
Speaker
i think sometimes the disconnect comes in adults forgetting what the process of learning, what it means to be committed looks like and feels like. You don't know what all you're supposed to be doing until you've like lived long enough and had enough experiences and opportunities to really engage, to know that, yeah, this is actually what it looks like in practice to be serious and be committed.
00:13:09
Speaker
So yeah, I think sometimes adults can focus on the things that Black youth are not doing, not really recognizing they're doing all they know to do. And when they know more, they're going to do more. When we know more, we're going to do more.
00:13:22
Speaker
So yeah, that that's something I wish adults and knew. And I think that would encourage them to be in deeper relationship with us and be more intentional about skill sharing and knowledge sharing so that they can bring us deeper into this fight for justice or also just advancing equity in our particular fields.
00:13:39
Speaker
Period. Yeah.
00:13:43
Speaker
think for me, one thing I wish adults knew about Black youth is that they're not lacking potential. They're often, i would say,
00:13:58
Speaker
lacking the access and the spaces where they truly feel seen. I feel like a lot of, you know, young youth are navigating pressure, grief that they may be going through at the time, financial stress, especially because of the economy that we are living in, different stereotypes, and just like being placed on a pedestal.
00:14:22
Speaker
I feel like they think that it's a responsibility at a young age, but are so also still expected to excel throughout life. But it's like, how are you going to excel throughout life if you don't even have the correct navigation?
00:14:36
Speaker
i also feel like that when they are supported, i feel like they would navigate life better rather than just being judged. Sorry, judged.
00:14:46
Speaker
And they thrive better, so they don't need to be fixed, but need an opportunity through like mentorship, again excuse me, and just having room to dream about just being youth, you know?
00:15:02
Speaker
So that's something I wish like adults knew about Black youth, especially just like young adults as well. I'd approach this by saying that Black youth are still youth at the end of the day.
00:15:16
Speaker
i think a lot of times when it comes to Black youth in particular, there is this tendency to maybe expect them to kind of grow up a lot faster.
00:15:28
Speaker
and i would also say that in terms of like treating them as youth is just taking kind of taking an approach where instead of kind of having all these stereotypes and expectations on them you really kind of just sit down and let them be their own experts at times and instead of trying to just support a based off of what you think will work, really letting them kind of have some agency in that department and being patient because i don't think there's a lot of times where particularly Black youth are even being in positions where they could have that agency to say, this is actually how I feel and this is something that I would love to get support with or even just asking for help in general. So, yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker
I would just say really letting them take the driver's seat and trying to just support the best way you know how based off of what they say and not what you just think.
00:16:29
Speaker
and like that. Yeah. And I was going to say, I do have something to say about that because I definitely can see the ways that Black youth are like sidelined in conversations literally about themselves. And one of the quotes that I heard when I was in a freedom school, and it just always stuck with me, was the man, he said, Black youth are not a problem to be solved, but a treasure to behold.
00:17:01
Speaker
And i really thought about that because kind of what y'all are saying is is is that Black youth don't even get a chance to like be youth first of all. So you don't even get a chance to like be youth. And to me to be a youth means that you get to enjoy life without like responsibility in a sense. Like you, I see what I would imagine is like Black youth being able to experience joy, but I don't think that
00:17:33
Speaker
that is something that Black youth are always able to experience. So, yeah, I love that you all are sharing these perspectives about that because i do I do agree. I think that there is a lot that adults could be doing to be supporting Black youth. So that's my comment about that. Nice. I so appreciate it.
00:17:57
Speaker
And I think that really does bring us right to what my first question for you is. And that is, what do you say to young people who feel like older adults just need to get out the way and let them lead?
00:18:10
Speaker
And what do you say to those older adults who feel like young people just don't understand is what they say sometimes. They just don't understand. What do what do you say to those groups of people?
00:18:21
Speaker
All right, so love this question because i I think that this is more of a question about, for me, about adults really respecting Black youth.
00:18:37
Speaker
And i think that part of the reason that young people do feel like old folks need to get out of the way is because i feel like there has been like a breakdown, an intergenerational breakdown in community between like older and young folks. And I think that that's also a consequence of, again, living in a white supremacist society where people are put in hierarchies and your age is a part of that hierarchy and so there are lots of older people who do not believe that there is knowledge to be found in young people and as Jeremiah said earlier like you you actually need to respect that the people you're talking to have some understanding of like what is actually happening to them
00:19:27
Speaker
So like for me, one of the things I would say to young people who feel like old folks need to get out of the way is like, if they ain't going to move, you got to move on. And I really hate to say it like that, but you know, everybody's not going to support your version of progress. And i don't think you you can always wait on them to do that because if I waited on people to you know tell me what I was to do, we wouldn't even be here having this conversation. I wouldn't be a teacher. And I think that sometimes that
00:19:58
Speaker
because you know that you are kind of the expert in your own life and your own experiences that other people are not going to necessarily always be as supportive of your vision as you are. So I think sometimes you have to find, you know, the people that are going to be supportive. So like if you can't, you know, get those people to be in community, you know, with you, sometimes you have to, you know, move forward without them.
00:20:21
Speaker
Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I feel you. But yeah, and I also think that this is a conversation about how a lot of older folks will get power and don't want to give that power up because losing power for a lot of people means they feel like they're like losing something.
00:20:43
Speaker
And I just, you know, for me, I'm just more of the mindset just as an older person is that, you know, we're we're not going to be here forever. So like you actually do need young folks to come in to pick up, you know, the helm of like the world that you're trying to create because Even if you're planting the seeds, you may not always see you know the fruit of that tree.
00:21:06
Speaker
so But if you don't you know prepare people to plant those seeds, then what's the guarantee is that it's going to die. So I think part of it is like really recognizing that part of the process is you you have to step out the way as an older person. And if you don't feel like Black youth are prepared, my question would be is what are you doing to help them get prepared?
00:21:29
Speaker
Because if you're not doing anything, and you're not you know and you're complaining about it, then I would actually say that that contributes to kind of that breakdown in community between generations.
00:21:40
Speaker
So yeah, that's my thoughts on that. No, appreciate it It's very helpful. And I think it speaks deeply to the sustainability and continuity of our movements.
00:21:52
Speaker
And also like just the reality that like we all ain't we all ain't going friends. You know, we all may not get able to get it along or see it the same way. But if we can understand we do have a common goal, then I think we can work through some of those things. and You know, what we can't work through, we will push through.
00:22:07
Speaker
yes Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. All right, so my next question for y'all. So even though this book, this podcast is called Books, Barbecue, and Black History, like for me, the irony in that is that I am definitely not a historian, even though i study a lot of Black history. I'm actually a social scientist, a sociologist, to be specific. So that's what I do a lot of educating about. So this next question is in relation to that background. So my question for you all is, how has what you've learned in sociology informed the work that you do, you know just your personal life, anything like that? And you can go ahead and start us off, Jeremiah.
00:22:54
Speaker
I mean, sociology is just so applicable and transferable. I remember I had a sociology course, sociology of the family, and we did something called an autoethnography. And I was like, what in the world is this? And it's basically just...
00:23:13
Speaker
utilizing your own experiences as the context for a lot of the concepts and sociology that we used. So, one thing I had to do for that class was study my family and what I chose to do was use this like feminist perspective and I talked with the woman in my family got their experiences about kind of different family roles and things of that nature and it was really eye-opening and I learned so much that I didn't know about
00:23:52
Speaker
And it was a time where it really felt validating for me to be in a class where, I mean, it wasn't just like learning abstractly, but actually applying what I was learning to to kind of have a deeper understanding of myself. So it was very powerful. And I would say maybe more professionally, it kind of made me curious about, okay, how can I, I don't know, bring these sociological concepts to, you know, and empowering the voices of those I'm trying to support, making them see that there is value in such experiences. So, I could go on and on, but I'd say that class and that project really just
00:24:43
Speaker
brought so much clarity and like a it was an eye-opening experience so that's what I would say thank you Jeremiah for that all right can you go ahead Trello Yeah, I'm happy to. How has sociology informed my work or my social life?
00:25:04
Speaker
I mean, how how has it not? a I think growing up Black, we have so many questions about our social experience. And for me, engaging in sociology or first coming to study sociology at North Carolina A&T State University,
00:25:20
Speaker
i was given language to describe a lot of the things I knew intuitively, but just really couldn't, I think, verbalize in the way I learned to.
Sociology's Role in Understanding
00:25:30
Speaker
So simple gifts like the sociological imagination have completely transformed my ability to, I think, engage in the world, conceptualize an idea, and then share it with folks.
00:25:41
Speaker
And also just like this greater reality that our experience is able to be like named, broken down, understood, measured, you know, quantified. in order to make a difference.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's completely transformed the way I see the world. i remember one case study in particular, i think it was, and I just lost the name, but they were studying the elections from 2000 2020. And we were looking at the percent of those elections where the candidate with the most money won. And these were looking at from like the lowest level of like school board, municipal elections, all the up to the presidency.
00:26:21
Speaker
And it was on average, like in 93% of the all elections that took place in the united States during that time, the candidate with the most money won. And that I learned that pretty early on in my sociological journey, if you will. And that had a huge impact on the way I engaged with anything from then on out then on out because I knew it could be measured, understood, and then shared with other people. And it also helped me decide, OK, where do I want to put my principal energy in terms of like changing the world? It helped me assess and analyze the weaknesses and strength of like systems and institutions, as well as say the potential of our community.
00:27:02
Speaker
But yeah, sociology has had a huge impact on my life and my work.
00:27:07
Speaker
I really like how you you answered that question. don't know if you saw my two so my two snaps because that was really beautiful. But just to like piggyback off of you, Tryll I feel like in a way, I'm not gonna lie, sociology, like it was really like a hit or miss for me at first just because like,
00:27:29
Speaker
coming into like college, especially because being like a student at North Carolina A&T as well, I feel like for me, I really didn't understand like what sociology really meant until I started to see it through a different lens of how we utilize sociology in our everyday lives. But for me, I feel like It has taught me a lot of like personal struggles that are also like connected to like a larger system that we are also adapting in.
00:28:02
Speaker
It helped me understand like how race, class, education, health care, education, And like the environment that we live in shape other people's experiences as well as our own.
00:28:15
Speaker
And especially because like like I said, like as an educator, it has taught me to like approach the work that I do, like with more empathy and just like not being so judgy, if that makes sense. And just like how I can better support, you know, like the youth and also like working in like professional spaces as well.
00:28:38
Speaker
And how I can better engage, like, with the community overall. So just, like, understanding people's stories that don't happen in, like, isolation, but, like, how they also connect to society as well.
00:28:53
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, that that's kind of my spiel. Thank you. I love how you guys are responding to this question. And i think that like in terms of just being introduced to sociology, i would say likewise with the getting language to describe a lot of these experiences and and thoughts and suspicions and observations and really figuring out, oh my gosh, there is something called like a school to prison pipeline. There is something that
00:29:26
Speaker
that has been studied and researched and it's really just uh a testament to how we we don't live in like a bubble and there are like systems and structures in place uh for better or worse that affect individuals and i think when it comes to my experience in like Professor Thomas' course it was a course that for me kind of fueled my love for learning again and it again tying them back to how transferable it is it made me want to kind of gave me a purpose academically when i was starting to question whether or not maybe the college environment was something i still wanted to be a part of so that's something i just wanted to add to what we're talking about
00:30:19
Speaker
All right. i cool Yeah. Can I say something before we jump into this next part? Yes. Yeah. So I love like hearing all of this because it like say, it's very affirming, you know, to hear that these things show up again in your lives outside of just the. the classroom. But i want to share something, a conversation I had with Jeremiah a while ago that I just thought about in this conversation.
00:30:46
Speaker
and it's a question I often get asked by by young people when I teach the type of stuff that I teach, especially, you know, about like systems instead of individuals. And one of the top questions I usually get is how can you teach this type of stuff and not be pessimistic? Because the the information is heavy you know sometimes and my response to that and my response to you know Jeremiah during that time is that like when you are exposed to things outside of like the narrow world that you're told exists like
00:31:25
Speaker
you you start to understand that the world that you're given is not the one that you have to accept because there are people doing lots of really, really wonderful things, you know, in all places around the world. And even, you know, just looking at our own Black history, Black people been doing really awesome things for a long time and we don't know because they won't teach it to us. And so for me, it's really hard to not be optimistic about, you know, the future when, again, I love quotes, but I remember someone telling me our ancestors did more with less.
00:31:58
Speaker
We literally on a podcast having
Journey of Understanding Black Identity
00:32:00
Speaker
conversations around books that they could not read with information that they did not necessarily have access to. So for me, it's kind of like, you we we have nothing we we're our own worst enemies we can be doing things you know with ourselves but part of it is just knowing that power that you have so yeah that's my steal love that loved that yes that's beautiful thank you y'all like cooking y'all like cooking It is. It is.
00:32:33
Speaker
well I have more. I have a question. But Jeremiah, do you want to go next? Oh, yes. So my question for you, Professor Thomas, is what started to change your understanding of Black identity?
00:32:50
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah. So this is this is a good one. Because it I would say it's like always been kind of a process. So I'm from Eastern North Carolina, which is a very Black part of North Carolina. it's very But it's rural. Like a lot of people... are not necessarily as familiar with that part of the the state. So like, I've always, I mean, I would say I've always been like kind of proud to be like black. I never thought that there was anything like wrong with it until, you know, you go into school and then they start, you know, kind of teaching you that there's something wrong with being in black. But i think for me, the biggest things that kind of changed it for me
00:33:32
Speaker
was one going to college. I think that going to college and being exposed to information, I would say like, yes, I grew up around Black people, but a lot of the information I got when I went through school was not from Black people. So I went to UNC Greensboro. And so I took a lot of sociology classes, and started learning about like the structure of society. I had the pleasure of taking a lot of African-American studies classes there as well. And i started learning about you know Black people. And I'm just like, wow, they didn't teach us any of this. And like being close to A&T is also helpful because if you are in Greensboro, and I don't even say Greensboro. oh People know what it is. But A&T has...
00:34:21
Speaker
beautiful Black culture. So even being at a predominantly white institution, just being in proximity to that, I think really made me feel more proud, I guess, of like being Black. But the biggest catalyst for me and like just walking through all this, but like the biggest catalyst for me was was probably my graduate program.
00:34:43
Speaker
I had already been dabbling a little bit in organizing, but it was still like I needed to know more. And so once I got the level of research skills that I needed and I started to like actually go read these books that I wasn't necessarily exposed to.
00:34:58
Speaker
that's when I really started realizing like, oh they really ain't telling us this stuff, you know, about ourselves. Cause I'm like, I've gone through all these years of school getting books by, you know, written by white people. And then when I started reading the books written by black people, I'm like, m now I know why they're not giving us these books. Because if you don't know your history, somebody can tell you who you are. But for me right now, because I know so much about,
00:35:27
Speaker
myself as a Black person because I read so much about the people who came before me who are telling us about what's happening today, by the way. They're telling us years back what's happening today. But because I know that history about myself, because I know how society functions, other people can't come in and tell me like who I am. And so like I think that's that conversation about having, like what's the word? It's called having racial self-esteem. Yeah, yeah.
00:35:54
Speaker
You can't make me hate Black people. You can't make me dislike Black people. You can't make me think that Black people are like inferior because I know our history like and not the one that they keep giving us. so I would say, like you know ultimately, education, literally. But it's education I had to go out and get for myself, which, again, is why this space is here. Because I think once you know who you are as a Black person, you're going to stop listening to those stories that people tell you about who you are because you'll know.
00:36:22
Speaker
So I hope that answered. your question i love that answer so much oh yeah oh yeah thank you thank you all right so my next question you all is what does an ideal world for black folks look like to you what does an ideal for world for black folks look like to you Man, this is my favorite question.
00:36:51
Speaker
I love to, you know, reflect and imagine on what our ideal world is because I think a lot of times when we're asked that question, we try to imagine a whole new thing, not really remembering that we've already had small pieces of what the ideal Black world for us could look like. And I'm just imagining simple things like being in my grandmother's, great-grandmother's home in Fayetteville, North Carolina, running around in a big field with no shoes on with my cousins, playing games like Mother May i and Cops and Robbers and all the different things. Yes, Cops and Robbers.
00:37:30
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah, i I'm just so grateful because dr or Professor Thomas was just talking to us about how, you know, being raised in North Carolina, i had a positive self-Black image until it was trained out of me in the academy when I attended school.
00:37:48
Speaker
And it just speaks to the genius of the families we were brought up in that were able to create a world within a world that shielded us from lot of the harm and humiliation and, yeah, just the degradation that the world was pushing into our minds or trying the hardest to push into their minds, but because our family could host a cookout and the fish fry and we could go to Black church and our freedom schools and our Black schools. We had a world within this world where we could make our ideal. So yeah, to answer it more simply, the ideal world for Black folks for me just simply looks like space, like little geographical space for self-determination, for gathering, for dreaming and imagining together.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah, we do have to do some things about the geopolitical situation, but think our ideal world starts in the smallest places that we already have autonomy over, like the Black church, like our Black schools, like our Black neighborhoods where we can, yes, build this world within a world.
00:38:48
Speaker
Yes, I really like that. yeah you saw so many You've brought so many memories talking about cops and robbers just now. It was so crazy. Listen, because it's so crazy because I literally was having a conversation with my cousin about this the other day. Like, now that we're adults, like, who's really going be hosting these cookouts?
00:39:10
Speaker
Like, I was just really thinking about that. But cops and robbers, that was my experience. that was my game for real growing up. I think for me, it would be like, I wouldn't necessarily say it's like a little bit different. It's just of where I come from, especially because I'm not from North Carolina. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts. So we kind of just dealt with the same thing, like growing up, you know, just always being outside and just being a kid. Like we never really had to, i feel like
00:39:41
Speaker
Growing up and like my family specifically, it's, they kind of shield us from like what was really going on in the real world. Like I really didn't think about what it would be like to, i guess you can say like what the world really like thinks of us as, you know, individuals, especially like growing up, I didn't really have to deal with a lot until I became an adult Um, myself. myself.
00:40:09
Speaker
But for me, I guess, like, to answer the question, an ideal world where for Black people is where we could just freely exist without having to prove, like...
00:40:21
Speaker
humanity first. Just like a world where we have equal access and all that other stuff where we just like bring our joy. Our joy is normalized. Our cultures are being celebrated without being exploited or you know just our communities coming together that we can just thrive instead of just thriving on survival mode or like trauma and that being the expectation for it all. But yeah, just like being free, carefree and just having fun. i feel like that is an ideal world for Black people, plus at least in my opinion.
00:40:57
Speaker
Man, I really love these answers of like, we have a world inside this world and our joy is normalized. And I thought of a book that Cynthia Erivo, she written is called simply more. And every time I look at this question or think about it, you know, I just get this huge sense of freedom. And like, I guess my answer will be more so that black people could have this feeling of freedom and and just existence that
00:41:34
Speaker
doesn't have to live inside of these systemic and other things to kind of put us down or whatnot. We could just kind of have the humanity that Nunu was talking about celebrated with anybody else.
00:41:52
Speaker
Come on now. I love height that. it's such a beautiful answer. Yeah. I love this.
Liberative Black Sociologists
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah. I want to ask... a question.
00:42:03
Speaker
How are you intentional about building on the lineage of liberative Black sociologists who have stretched our capacity to dream and build? And what ways do you encourage others to do the same thing?
00:42:16
Speaker
All right. So this was one of the questions I got. I was like, I really got to sit down and think about this. Because really, really, really stretched my thinking even about like myself.
00:42:30
Speaker
so I guess i the first thing I would say is like the way I would think about, or even just getting exposed to black liberative sociology, maybe I should start there. So most of the books I've been given throughout my very long academic career, have been written by men and white people. And so again, I think I mentioned, I didn't start learning about black thinkers, black sociologists, So was like in in graduate school, which is wild because a lot of people don't even have access to even get to that point.
00:43:04
Speaker
And a lot of the information I still had to like look into myself. And even in that space, i was't I was discouraged from doing so. So even when I got to a space where I could get access to this information, I was discouraged from doing that, which of course I did anyway, because again, know, I think part of like the having a clear black identity is like other people can't define things for you. So like, even if people tell me not to do something, especially if it's in relation to something umm Black, I'm not going to let people like tell me I can't you know study Black people or talk about Black people or center Black people because I'm Black. So I'm going to center Black people because I'm Black. So when I started learning about like all of these liberative like Black sociologists and the way that I would define the liberative Black sociologists are the ones who were speaking truth to power.
00:44:01
Speaker
because like I said, a lot of the, if you read a lot of books, a lot of the information that people that black people have been talking about, like hundreds of years ago, thousands, really, if you want to go you know, pre-colonial, but we've already had the answers to like a lot of these questions and we have you know had them hidden from us and when i started like really getting into like some of what i would consider those liberative black sociologists like ida b wells she documented lynching you know during in the jim crow south when people were denying you know it happened and i find that to be liberative because again it's speaking truth to power when people are telling this your story and saying that the things aren't happening to you to push back against that narrative to me is like really powerful. W.E.B. Du Bois, of course, is like really noted within sociology because he pointed out years ago that race is the defining issue in American society. And as y'all pointed out already, like one of the things I find really powerful with those liberative Black sociologists is a lot of them also give language to things that we know exist.
00:45:18
Speaker
So, and I don't want to say for it to become more credible, but like in a white supremacist society, degrees are used as a tool, as a form of like credibility for people. And so for me, it's very important for me to understand that like, even if I have a degree, I'm still Black.
00:45:39
Speaker
and And like, I can never forget that. It gives me access to like some things, but at the end of the day, I'm still black. And so for me, i I operate under kind of that same liberative Black sociologist that came before me by really focusing on like telling the truth about things that I see.
00:46:00
Speaker
And i think that that makes people really, really uncomfortable because it's it's very akin to, what's that word? the The matrix. Like a lot of people don't want to take the pill because they would rather stay in the version of the world that they actually see and what I find that a lot of those liberty black sociologists did is they snatched it off and they're like no you're going to see this because you need to know these things are happening And I think that that conversation about like that speaking truth to power is also connected to like the literacy crisis that we have within society because I think that there's a very strong connection between people being illiterate in US society, also not having access to accurate history. And specifically like black history, because when you understand that like black people were killed for like learning how to read and write, then today it makes a lot more sense about like, well, why are they defunding schools? Because we we weren't supposed to learn how to do the stuff that we're doing.
00:47:04
Speaker
Come on. And for me. that is that speaking truth to power because the the elephant in the room, as Du Bois said, was race.
00:47:15
Speaker
Because everything that's happening comes back to race because race is really about are you seen as a human being or are you not? And I think what a lot of those liberative Black sociologists have done and continue to do is to point out the contradictions of the way that society is structured, of Black people's experiences within those societies, and they do it in a way that centers black people. And for me, that is the most important because again, i am going to tell the story of black people from a black perspective. And a lot of times that makes people uncomfortable because to be black is to be dehumanized. And when you point out that dehumanization, it makes other people uncomfortable.
00:47:55
Speaker
and it should because black people shouldn't be dehumanized so yeah that that for me is the way of like kind of passing that along because like i said this podcast literally exists because people said we shouldn't be learning about black history so we're gonna learn it so to me that is literally paying homage to the people that came you know before me because nobody was really trying to hear what they said and their words live far past them.
00:48:26
Speaker
So I hope my words live past me. I love that. I do have a question for you, Miss Host.
00:48:38
Speaker
If you don't mind. So... I wanted to know how has hearing so many different lived experiences changed the way you understand our community?
Learning from Marginalized Communities and Self-Care
00:48:50
Speaker
And how, and also how do you protect your peace while holding space for heavy conversations?
00:49:02
Speaker
So I would say i have learned more about compassion from people who are more marginalized than me than anything that I have ever learned in any program I have been in I tell people a lot of the times, like a lot of the knowledge that I have did not actually come from the schooling the act or the academic my academic background. It was literally from like being in community with people that were more marginalized than me. learning from people who are more marginalized. and i And by more marginalized, I mean like sex workers taught me more about gender and class than anything I learned in school. Trans people have taught me so much about, again, gender and sexual orientation.
00:49:52
Speaker
Disabled people have taught me so much about health. And these may not be groups of people that people think about when you have those sorts of conversations, but the people who are the most marginalized tend to have a better understanding of how the world actually functions because it is they, they have to live in it and they have to be safe. And so when you always have to consider your safety, you're going to be more aware of like the world that you're living in. So for me,
00:50:24
Speaker
it's always being aware of like, even though it's is that conversation really about intersecting identities. So understanding that like, even though I'm oppressed as like a black woman, there are other, there are other identities that I have that give me more access to like harm people if I am not aware of that. And so a really big one for me would be like education and being like,
00:50:47
Speaker
Educated or i would say formally educated to be specific, because, again, a lot of people will go to school, get degrees and then weaponize their knowledge against people. And that for me is like.
00:51:01
Speaker
So like I don't know. It's one of those things I just don't agree with because I'm like, what is the point of like learning something if you're going to go harm people with it? I'm more of the mindset. If you learn something, why don't you go share it Because the whole point of knowledge, you know, is essentially to share it. And that's how i kind of operate. And I think as far as the you asked as well about how do I like protect my peace? So I am so big on...
00:51:27
Speaker
making sure that I make space for myself because I think that if you do any sort of like helping work, any sort of caregiving, any sort of social justice work, then there's an understanding that those things are like very, very, very draining. And so I am very clear about my boundaries of like what labor I will provide, when I will provide it, cutting off you know certain things when I realize that it is more than I have capacity to give because I just recognize that I can't help anybody if I can't take care of myself. And think
00:52:06
Speaker
i think that the type of like work I do within the community, if I didn't take time to like go find joy, because like, even if you're doing like social justice work, you still have to find time for like black joy. Because that joy, had it can't all be like,
00:52:24
Speaker
we're just surviving. Because I think that's what y'all said about like, you don't want to, you know, ideal world would be not just surviving. Well, part of surviving is like, sometimes you have to make that space for yourself because the world ain't never going to make space for like black joy. So like you, you really got to create that sometimes for yourself. So I always remind myself of making that time for myself. And just knowing that there are other places that have far worse conditions than what I'm living in. So for me, that sort of context helps me from like internalizing too much that's like happening it here. Because again, that quote I said about, you know, our ancestors did more with less.
00:53:05
Speaker
And we we have a lot of tools and resources at our disposal. And so for me, it's just being intentional, I guess, about how I use them. So,
00:53:15
Speaker
that answer your question, Nunu? It sure did. It sure did. And I just have one more follow up question. Okay. So what has been the most powerful lesson you've learned from speaking with us today? Hmm.
00:53:31
Speaker
I would say i think that people do not respect the I'm going to use wisdom. ain't even going to use knowledge. I'm use wisdom. I do not think people really respect the wisdom of Black youth.
00:53:49
Speaker
And I think that that if adults would step out of the way and actually respect Black youth, then that intergenerational like coalition building can actually happen. Because I think that Black youth and you know elders and adults just all have to work together because we all have a different kind of role to play. And I think, you know, my biggest thing has always been respect. I don't think, I do not believe that a lot of adults respect youth or children. And I think that if that is not, you know, addressed, then that makes it harder for people to make those connections. Cause like I said, I think I'm able to kind of connect with people because I do have, I do come with respect and not as a
00:54:43
Speaker
condescending you know sort of person and respecting that everybody has something that they can share so everybody you're expert in your own life and keep and tell you you know what works for you and it just affirms you know the stuff i'll be saying because you know always tell people whenever i'm in spaces and i hear people telling me about like oh this is what youth need and and diddadada and i look around and i don't see no youth here and i think that you know I can i can pass the along information that I can advocate for Black youth. That's what I would say. But I can speak for them.
00:55:19
Speaker
yeah that's Yeah, that's what would say. i I love that. That's the biggest thing I learned is I can continue to be a advocate, but it's best to let Black youth speak for themselves because it's clear.
00:55:31
Speaker
y'all Y'all got the answers for yourselves or you're working towards them. Well, thank you for sharing that. Yes, yes. I have a comment about that.
00:55:42
Speaker
I think that like when you said that it was just kind of like, well it's maybe a question, but are you saying that with the access to knowledge you have from your credentials and the work you've been doing, experiences you've had, you're saying that you will try to do your best to show Black youth what's possible, inspire them, but then have them kind of take the reins and then do what they decide with the information, basically, like giving them agency based off of what you've introduced to them.
00:56:16
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like my role is to provide people the tools to build the world that they want to see.
00:56:29
Speaker
Because... Amen. Yeah. I think, again, it's that conversation about, you know, older folks giving young people or providing young people with the tools. Because, again, you can't say that you don't trust the youth to kind of, you know, do these things when when you're doing nothing to pour into them, when all you're doing is complaining. Because, like... That's facts.
00:56:53
Speaker
Yeah, because, like, I remember, you know, seeing a video actually recently of, you know, people making jokes about, like, people in, like, students in high school not being able to read, and people think that that's funny, as opposed to, like, that is actually a social failure. oh Instead of, like, making fun of that and, you know, asking, you like, how can we support? Because even when we talk about, like,
00:57:19
Speaker
you know, I know like our conversation, going to talk about it in a moment, but I know that y'all love to read. But I also know that a lot of young people do not like to read because the books they're being given do not relate. They cannot relate to them. They don't trust the adults that are giving them to them. They know that, you know, there's some sort of like angle to what they're getting, or misinformation, all those sorts of things. And I think that,
00:57:46
Speaker
when you when When you can't have a population like trust you, then that's that says more about you than it does actually them. So so yeah, that would be I guess that would be my response to that. Does that answer your question?
00:58:02
Speaker
It does answer my question. And it's kind of making me think about my own experiences with books. And I know that's kind of leading to what we're going to talk about. But yeah, it's very timely.
Recommended Books by Black Authors
00:58:14
Speaker
e here e definitely agree all right so generally in these episodes what i do is i will wrap up the episode with like an excerpt from one a book that's like really really meaningful to me but i'm not going to do that today because i have y'all here with me so i would like to go ahead and ask you all what book by a black author do you think all black people should read and why and if you don't mind sharing an excerpt from a book that it because it could be the same book it could be a different one but an excerpt from said book and what it means to you i don't mind going okay
00:59:04
Speaker
Okay, so actually have two books, but I'll be reading from one by an author named Toni Morrison. Girl. The first book is The Bluest Eye. That's the one I'll be reading. And the second one is Sula.
00:59:18
Speaker
Now, with these books, i I think that for me, I've never been exposed to a book that only had black characters in it.
00:59:31
Speaker
And not only that, but that really shared a perspective from like a black woman or even children. And with The Bluest Eye in particular, it's essentially a book about this young black girl named Pacola Relove.
00:59:51
Speaker
and her experiences with like racial loathing and how things in her environment from her family to her experiences at school and the community have kind of shaped that.
01:00:04
Speaker
And what I love that the book does is that even though it's kind of centered on her, it even goes as far as to look into the Black characters in her family and their own childhood and upbringing and making the connections to her experience.
01:00:20
Speaker
And then I'll read from the book right now an excerpt. So, our astonishment was short-lived, for it gave way to a curious kind of defensive shame.
01:00:34
Speaker
We were embarrassed for Pocola, hurt for her, and finally we just felt sorry for her. Our sorrow drove out all thoughts of the new bicycle.
01:00:46
Speaker
And I believe our sorrow was the more intense because nobody else seemed to share it. They were disgusted, amused, shocked, outraged, or even excited by the story.
01:01:01
Speaker
But we listened for the one who would say, poor little girl or poor baby. But there was only headwagon where those words should have been. We looked for eyes creased with concern, but saw only veils.
01:01:18
Speaker
I thought about the baby that everybody wanted dead and saw it very clearly. It was in a dark, wet place, its head covered with great holes of wool, the black face holding like nickels, two clean black eyes, the flare nose, kissing thick lips, and a living, breathing silk of black skin.
01:01:39
Speaker
No synthetic yellow bangs suspended over marble blue eyes. No pinched nose and bowline mouth. More strongly than my fondness for Pecola, I felt a need for someone to want the black baby to live.
01:01:54
Speaker
Just to counteract the universal love of white baby dolls, Shirley Temples and Maureen Peels. And freedom must have felt the same thing. We did not think of the fact that Pecola was not married.
01:02:08
Speaker
Lots of girls had babies who were not married. And we did not dwell dwell on the fact that the baby's father was Pecola's father too. The process of having a baby by any male was incomprehensible to us.
01:02:21
Speaker
At least she knew her father. We thought only of this overwhelming hatred for the unborn baby. So that's the excerpt from The Bluest Eye. And I chose this excerpt because I think it goes back to what we were talking about of the humanity of black youth.
01:02:39
Speaker
And i think that for this excerpt too, it's told through the voice of or the lens of two young sisters in the neighborhood that Pecola lives in.
01:02:51
Speaker
who are kind of just observing how Pecola's, like basically her rape by her father is kind of being viewed by everybody else. And this is just longing for someone to kind of see her as a little girl and just to kind of see her out of this, i don't know how to verbalize it exactly, but... I think that every black person should read it, this book, The Bluest Eye, because it's a chance to really reckon with
01:03:23
Speaker
why it is that someone like Pecola or even the two sisters from this excerpt are kind of socialized to look at blackness with, without humanity, why or how family and a lot of our daily interactions kind of fuel this and Maybe i'll I'll be able to articulate this more in conversation. yeah
01:03:52
Speaker
I think that, like, at least for me, when I shared this book with friends and family, it it led to very productive conversations, a lot of, oh, my gosh, I didn't know this information exists or this there was a book like this and a real longing to even read again, going back to what we just talked about, about books. And i brought this book to Professor Thomas's class and being able to have access to a book like this and and learn about sociology was very transformative. And like I said, it was at a time where I was really questioning my place in academia and whether or not I wanted to continue. And I just think it's something every black person should read. So that's my answer.
01:04:41
Speaker
see.
01:04:43
Speaker
I think one book I think everyone should read is, haven't read this book in a while, but it was just sitting on my mind the other day.
01:04:54
Speaker
when I was thinking about what books I should talk about. But one book I really think everyone should read is why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria by Beverly Daniel Tatum. I really think that it really forces you to slow down and rethink what you think seeing like when it comes to Black youth as well as identity.
01:05:17
Speaker
I know oftentimes like we get it gets labeled as like separation, but really it's just survival and community, like what we're used to.
01:05:28
Speaker
so it's basically like it's finding people together. like within different spaces that they don't have to explain themselves or shrink who they are.
01:05:40
Speaker
And I think that matters because like a lot of like black students move through environments where they're constantly being observed, but not always understood. i know like for personally, like for me, I can, I don't know, I can't speak for anybody else, but I can speak for me. But like growing up, that's literally how I felt like,
01:05:58
Speaker
I never felt understood. So I feel like the people who look like me probably will understand me the best. And someone who studied sociology and continuously studying and also doing like research behind that, as well as Black voices within education kind of and affirmed for me how important it is to like really center what young people are saying about their own experiences, like lived experiences.
01:06:25
Speaker
yeah, And an expert excerpt that I wanted to read that she had, Ms. Beverly had wrote was, as a token of appreciation, i received a mug with the story printed on its side, and it read, a young girl A young girl was walking along the beach to her amazement. She came upon thousands of starfish, washed ashore by storm.
01:06:53
Speaker
They were dying in the hot sun. The girl began to toss starfish back into the sea one by one. After a while, a man approached her. Little girl, he asked, why are you doing this?
01:07:04
Speaker
There are thousands of starfish on the beach. You cannot possibly hope to make a difference. The girl was discouraged and dropped the starfish in her hand. But a moment later, she bent down, picked up the starfish again and tossed it as far as she could into the sea.
01:07:19
Speaker
She turned back to the man, smiling brightly and said, I made a difference to that one. Inspired, he joined her. A crowd had gathered and soon others joined in Before long, there were hundreds of people tossing starfish back into the sea and calling out, I made a difference to that one.
01:07:38
Speaker
After a while, their calls subsided. The girl looked up to her amazement. She saw no starfish on the beach. Each one had been tossed back into the sea.
01:07:50
Speaker
As the story so beautifully illustrates, each of us has the power to make a difference and collectively we can create a more just peaceful society. and also goes back to like what Professor T was like talking about in a sense of like she can't speak for everybody.
01:08:09
Speaker
but just wanting for the youth to do, like just kind of just give themselves their own platform to advocate for themselves. and what stood out to me is how often behavior gets interpreted without understanding the concept behind it. So like a lot of what looks like separation is actually about finding belonging in spaces where people may feel unseen. And that's something I think we still see today in schools as well as beyond within our communities as well.
01:08:42
Speaker
Nice. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, love that. Thank you. It's so great being on here with y'all. Okay. I know. I love this. I love this too. This is great.
01:08:54
Speaker
Yeah, but I'll... I'll go last. And i guess is it's only me left. But the book I think every Black person should read by a Black author is All About Love by bell hooks
01:09:08
Speaker
I'm going to read an excerpt from a different book. But yeah, I think it's really important that every Black person go grab All About Love by bell hooks and and read it, sit with it.
01:09:18
Speaker
And yeah, I'm going to be reading though from There Is a River, The Struggle for Freedom in America, and it's by Vincent Harding. And Vincent Harding, he he's a historian, and he maps the our movement of resistance from the shores of Africa into like the 50s.
01:09:36
Speaker
And a the metaphor he uses for that resistance is a river. So I'm going speak a little bit to him describing that now. I'll read a bit of that. He says... as At first, as the river metaphor took life within me, I was unduly concerned about its apparent inexactness and ambiguity.
01:09:56
Speaker
Now, with the passing of time and the deepening of our vision, it is possible to recognize that we are indeed the river. And at the same time, the river is more than us, generations more, millions more.
01:10:10
Speaker
Through such an opening, we may sense that the river of Black struggle is people, but it also it is also the hope, the movement, the transformative power that humans create and that create them, us, and makes them, us, new persons.
01:10:29
Speaker
So we, Black people, are the river. The river is in us. The river is in us, created by us, flowing out of us, surrounding us, recreating us and this entire nation.
01:10:43
Speaker
I refer to the American nation without hesitation for the Black River in the United States has always taken on more than Blackness. The dynamics and justice of its movement have continually gathered others unto itself, have persistently filled other people with the force of its vision, its indomitable hope,
01:11:04
Speaker
And at best, the river of our struggle has moved consistently toward the ocean of humankind's most courageous hopes for freedom and integrity, forever seeking what Black people in South Carolina said they sought in 1865, the right to develop our whole being.
01:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, and this is another book I think Black people should read. It does a really good job of creating space for folks to identify with the long history of resistance movement.
01:11:36
Speaker
And also help identify with where you may be in it today at every point in our movement's history, there's been a different like primary thrust or primary goal or objective.
01:11:48
Speaker
And what Franz Fanon says is it's every generation's job out of relative obscurity to see what that goal is, to define it for themselves and either try to achieve it or abandon it, basically. And yeah, I hope that we achieve it.
01:12:05
Speaker
I love this so much. love that. I'm so excited. Yeah. All of these books are amazing.
01:12:16
Speaker
And like, before I, I guess before I wrap up, do y'all want to, do y'all want to add any, anything else that you would like to share before I wrap this episode up?
01:12:27
Speaker
Always room for everybody black.
01:12:32
Speaker
more Come on, come on. And thank you, Professor T for having us. Really appreciate it. Yes, so grateful to be on. Thank you for the invitation.
01:12:44
Speaker
Yes, one thing or a few things I like to say is like, if you don't see the representation in this space, try it. Go ahead and represent and and keep embracing community in abundance and like build your tribe. I would say like just personally speaking, I never would have thought I would have met a professor like Professor Thomas or even now these two students, NouNou Tryll Just take your time. And well you got these book recommendations now. You got this podcast space. And if you ever find someone that you want to connect with, go out and try to reach out. Closed mouth doesn't get fed. Hello.
01:13:24
Speaker
You got a few people here. I'm open to being contacted. So that's what I would like to finish off. And thank you for letting me be on this, in this space, in this conversation. This has been very fulfilling and energizing. I love it.
01:13:36
Speaker
yeah Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Man, this is so awesome for me because like i said, i I started this episode off reading that teaching philosophy because i I really feel like i am doing what I said i was going to do when I started teaching or else I couldn't be here having these conversations with you all. And while you are the, you know, y'all are the ones that I've, you know, picked to, you know, be up here. And again, there were lots of reasons why.
01:14:09
Speaker
i I understand that like i I say a lot that like I don't really feel like you know what I do is that special because I'm literally just operating under a I believe people need to be treated with respect I'm going to give it to them and just really affirming you know those who are the most marginalized is really important to me and so To have like the feedback that I've gotten, the conversation that, you know, that we're having today is just so affirming for me because like, I feel like I'm very fortunate to be doing what I feel like I'm supposed to do with my life. Because I feel like lots of people never figure that out.
01:14:51
Speaker
And the fact that I already know that about myself, I feel like being able to come in contact with, you know, people like y'all and see the work that you do and like hear how, you know, things that I, you know, I just feel like I'm talking sometimes, but to hear how they like just resonate with with you all. is like so meaningful me i cannot explain so i am so excited that y'all chose to you know share this space with me also gotta mention this before i wrap up is that Jeremiah was actually the one that i sat with and i told him i was like i'm gonna start a podcast
01:15:33
Speaker
And i told him the name of it. And I told him the name of it. And like, it was, you know, part of this is like, was his excitement as well. And like, just conversations, like I said, I've had with like lots of other people. So like, I would also say like, even though this is just an episode, like the, the inspiration from this podcast actually came from my experiences with students like y'all.
01:15:57
Speaker
And just young people I've just been in contact with, you know, over, you know, my organizing, my, you know, abolitionist work, like all of that stuff is really what had me to create this space. So I am so excited that you all chose to be here. i cannot wait for other people to hear this because I think there are lots of little gems that we all dropped in here. And that is a wrap.