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I AM my brother's keeper
67 Plays2 months ago
We interview Commander Allie Taylor about the formation and operation of a Peer Support Team.
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Transcript
Introduction of Podcast and Guest
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey
00:00:13
Speaker
everybody, welcome in to Under the Helmet. I'm your host, Josh Van Dusen. Today we have with us Commander Allie Taylor with Bradley County EMS. Allie, welcome in. We're so happy to have you today.
00:00:25
Speaker
it's nice meet Allie, Allie, can you give us a little bit of background on yourself and just kind of tell us a little introduction about you?
Allie's Background and Role at EMS
00:00:35
Speaker
Yeah, my name's Allie. I've been a commander for about four years at Bradley County for the ambulance service.
00:00:42
Speaker
I've worked there for about 20. and Really, I'm just more of like a shift supervisor. Some commanders are different ranking and all that, ah depending on what department you're at. But I really just run the shift. I take care of about 14 to 16 people on my shift currently.
00:01:00
Speaker
um Just making sure that everyone stays afloat is the biggest the biggest job title that I have right now. um I'm also one of the main people with the peer support with mental health at our service.
00:01:13
Speaker
So we've got a big group that the helps and just deal with all of the mental health. We've really taken pride in trying to to grow that that aspect of the service. So It's been ah been a difficult journey, but very rewarding nonetheless.
00:01:31
Speaker
Right. How big is Bradley County EMS? How many employees do you you think you guys have? We probably have about 100, 110 full-time employees. And then anywhere, maybe 60 to 70 part-time, depending on the month. Some of them kind of come out. Right.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah. Right. I understand. So in the peer support aspect of it, you've got a quite a bit under your belt that you, that you handle with them.
Personal Motivation and Journey into EMS
00:01:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's, that has definitely been a journey. We've, we've tried to decide to help get an actual peer support team to kind of formalize it, make it a little bit more kind of standard operating guides for, and just so it's, it's more formatted so that,
00:02:16
Speaker
Not as many people fall through the cracks. um there's it There's several of us. We've um we've probably got about 10 or 11 peer support people on our on our panel for Bradley County EMS.
00:02:28
Speaker
Great, great. So, Allie, tell me what led you to your involvement with the peer support. Was there was there some type of personal journey there? Or what what led to your your desire to be involved in peer support?
00:02:42
Speaker
So this is kind of a long one, so you're going to have to... Bear with me through it all. ah The reason that I got an EMS was my brother passed away whenever I was 15.
00:02:53
Speaker
And yeah it could have probably been dealt with a little bit better. So I've seen the mental health side of things from a personal aspect since I was very little. um My family didn't really register that the correct way. And it it led to a lot of negative issues.
00:03:14
Speaker
not really feedback, but just a negative aspect of my life. um So whenever I got into EMS, it kind of, it was provoked by that wreck to try to do better and be better.
00:03:28
Speaker
Some of the EMTs on the scene of that wreck didn't find my, my brother's girlfriend at the time. And all three of them died um in the wreck. There was him, her, and another um person in another vehicle. And ah felt like if maybe I could make that better, just with EMS, you know, getting on scene and triaging a little better and making sure that all people are accounted for that are on the scenes.
00:04:00
Speaker
Not that they necessarily did a bad thing, because now that I've had 20 years in, I can see both sides of it and maybe why. But that kind stemmed the whole thing of why i got into EMS.
Development of Peer Support Team
00:04:11
Speaker
And then... right I saw how it negatively affected my family and how we didn't deal with it correctly. And then I keep seeing all of these very tragic calls that we've ran over, you know, the last 20 years and how EMTs don't deal with them correctly.
00:04:31
Speaker
Probably about 90% of the time. and Right. So I just, I really wanted to kind of do better with that. I'm not a very outspoken person, and contrary to what some people may think.
00:04:42
Speaker
I get very nervous. Even this, this is very nerve wracking for me, but I believe in it enough that I want it to succeed. So I'm going to struggle through this and hopefully you can get something out with that.
00:04:57
Speaker
and But one of our old medical directors, we had, we had been hit and hit and miss with the mental health stuff and for a while at Bradley County. And we had a few people that were trying to pull the trigger on it and I had a medical director come up to me and and say, hey, we really need to get this going. And I was a very new command staff at that time.
00:05:24
Speaker
And I thought, you know what, I can do this. As hard as this may be, I can make this work. I'd already been kind of mingling with it it in the beginning. And so I just took it and ran with it. It's not perfect by any means, um but I do try.
00:05:38
Speaker
And i feel like that it's gotten... Tremendous support, especially by, you know, the the directors of the service. It's definitely helped just kind of grow and build that to to what we are now. And, again, there's still room for growth with everything that we have as far as our peer support team and just the mental health aspect of everything. But at least it's kind of taken off and and getting there. It's ah it's always going to be a work in progress.
00:06:09
Speaker
All that to say, sorry, that was very long winded. No, no, not at all. Not at all. Because we, this, that's kind of the point we want to kind of take an in-depth look at things. And I think that maybe our viewers, I would hope that they would appreciate how the groundwork is laid for these things, people's personal stories and how peer support, um,
00:06:35
Speaker
plays a role in their life is even coming from your point of view, where you felt the need to be able to provide ah a a resource to these employees. Um, it, Ali, you know, a lot of my personal story and, um, mental health has played a huge role in my career. Um, I, so I struggled for, for quite some time. I had a lot of, um,
00:07:01
Speaker
compiled traumas over the years and then um i had an accident of a carbon monoxide poisoning that just kind of tipped me over the edge and i kind of lost control and spiraled downward for for a couple of years um and it was um it was a little while after that that i finally said hey i've ah you know something's wrong i've got to i've got to figure out what's going on and why and then some things started to resurface and and if um i had a medical doctor that pushed me towards some mental health uh and some mental health treatment and it it made a tremendous effect on me um coming up through the years i started i started in this business when i was a kid and uh
00:07:49
Speaker
we didn't You just had the tough guy mentality back then, and you didn't there was no such thing as peer support, and you were expected just to bear the weight of this stuff, and it's just not humanly possible, and we see the effects of it every day in our in our business, and so I think it's a an extremely invaluable tool.
00:08:11
Speaker
thing that we're doing with the peer support. And so I commend you, Allie. I thank you for for for deciding to take on that burden. I know it's a huge burden along with your normal commander duties. This is this is a huge undertaking for you, and we thank you for that.
00:08:29
Speaker
Well, thankfully, I've got a of good people to
Cultural Shifts in EMS Mental Health
00:08:31
Speaker
help you. So it's not just me by any means. We've got a lot of different people. So it makes it easier whenever it's spread out.
00:08:40
Speaker
Right. up but Speaking of the tough guy mentality, to describe what your service was like before the peer support formed there. what Just kind of give me just a little bit of background um on how things were handled or or what you know what happened during maybe a critical incident or if you saw an employee that that you thought may be suffering from some of these effects. Just kind of tell us what it was like before peer support.
00:09:08
Speaker
So all of the flags were there. um The more research I did on this, the more I could see it. It was kind of like if you're looking at a red car, you see red cars everywhere.
00:09:20
Speaker
um People were calling into work because they couldn't handle another call. They were screaming and yelling at each other because they'd had a bad day. and right I recently went to a conference and they did a a little experiment.
00:09:36
Speaker
It was like a little quiz and it was how many bad traumas have you seen? And i thought it was kind of a joke because i answered, i was like, is are you really asking me this? Because I've seen every one of them multiple times. Like this is not a yes and no.
00:09:51
Speaker
And I just, I really took for granted just some of the other people in the room. I was like, wow, you've not seen all of these? Cause some of them only had like one or two points and mine was like 35 plus.
00:10:05
Speaker
And I realized how much trauma Bradley County has seen a lot of trauma. Um, you know, everybody thinks that we're a a small town department compared to some of the other people, but we see a lot of trauma on it a daily basis, multiple times a day and half the time it doesn't even registered that we've seen it because we've become so immune to it.
00:10:28
Speaker
And, and that's where I think the breakdown is that this isn't normal, you know, Any reaction that you had to that is a normal reaction because we're dealing with a lot of very abnormal scenarios, situations. You know, the average person doesn't see this every day. Right. But it definitely was taking its toll, I think. um And it still takes its toll today because the stigma is still there. It's gotten way better. Before, you didn't talk about it. It was the tough boy mentality.
00:11:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm. you were a sissy, I say that in quotations, because you came and you cried on scene, or, you know, I got told that was why women weren't an EMS is because they cried too much. And I, you know, it's just like, wow, what is that?
00:11:17
Speaker
Like that that's, men can cry too. It's just letting go of all of those emotions can can be very liberating nonetheless, but it was it was very, some a lot of people were very self-destructive.
00:11:32
Speaker
Now we try to teach way better coping mechanisms. um You know, the alcohol rate. I don't know what it was specifically at our service as far as numbers, but I do feel like it's probably improved since then. Just people learning to deal with it. and You know, they didn't want to take medicine like Prozac. wasnt You know, you you just didn't take it. You didn't announce that you took it. Not that we're all um medicine and all that, but that for the people that need it helps them.
00:12:02
Speaker
And that was, that was even a, you know, I'll i'll go ahead and say ah that was a game changer for me. Um, because I was very much against medicine at the beginning, but not that I, not that i deal with stress terribly. Like I had positive coping mechanisms, but I didn't realize what it was physically doing to my body.
00:12:19
Speaker
Um, my cortisol levels were through the roof, you know, I've, I'm, I'm getting a little older, unfortunately. Um, so I'm not that, you know, 20 year old that can spring back anymore. And it was, it was,
00:12:31
Speaker
it was really affecting just my body physically as much as mentally. um So when I did finally get on medication to help with some of that, I realized, you know, my kids don't need a snappy mama when they come home, you know, just the little things
Forming and Training Peer Support Groups
00:12:50
Speaker
like that. that Right. Just this weekend, my kid was like, mama, are you okay?
00:12:55
Speaker
And it's because I've missed my medicine. he He notices it more than I do. He's very self-aware and it's made me more self-aware. And I know that that may be something kind of controversial with some people as far as all of that, but you just find what works for you to try to adapt with what you've got. um Absolutely.
00:13:15
Speaker
I think that the service overall has gotten a lot better as far as the mental health. Like I've had people come up to me. Hey, Allie, I went and saw we have a ah therapy place that we work with and,
00:13:29
Speaker
that is one of the biggest things that has really driven some of our mental health stuff is that we do offer free therapy sessions. It's not a IEP or anything like that.
00:13:41
Speaker
It's unlimited therapy sessions for um EMS, fire and PD. And they can go and talk to a licensed therapist. And now I can walk through the halls and people be like, Hey, I saw, you know, whoever, and it's not so,
00:13:59
Speaker
secretive and like you're in trouble or, you know, you're not doing the right thing or it, it's very well talked about these days. Um, you can sit down at a table and say, Hey guys, how are you really feeling today? And it's not awkward because people are really open up to you and, and tell you how they're really feeling versus just trying to suck it up and, and be quiet with however, you know, they're dealing with it.
00:14:23
Speaker
Again, it's still not perfect, but it's better. Right. And I don't think it'll ever be perfect, Allie, because I don't think that we can ever come up with a perfect formulation.
00:14:35
Speaker
One of the things that we talked about in our last episode with Pete was that there is no template for this stuff. And everybody deals with this stuff differently. And everybody has a different release. So you you just kind of have to hit it with a broad spray effect and in hope that that that you can create positive coping make mechanisms for for your employees.
00:15:02
Speaker
One thing that that that I've noticed is that that each time you have a different coping mechanism, you can stick that in your in your file and say, hey, this may work for somebody else. It may not work for 30 other people, but it might work for one. And one of the the biggest things that that drive me to even do this podcast is that if I can just make a difference in one person, if we get one person that that it makes a difference in and helps them to to process and deal with this stuff in a positive manner.
00:15:35
Speaker
this is all worth it to me. I could do a thousand episodes and if just one person you know gets gets something from it, then then I'm blessed and I feel like I've made a difference in it. So, you know yeah although that we may never solve the problem because ah let's face it, every day the traumas get worse. I mean, you know, they they come up with some kind of new way to to to really mess things up and and we're there to to witness it, you know, but but so that I feel like the, you know, we we may not ever get a full grasp on it, but but hopefully we'll get a good tight one.
00:16:17
Speaker
um Recent director said, You just have to be 1% better than yesterday. And that's really kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to be perfect. That's right. You just got to keep trying to improve.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah. I really like that mentality. That's great. Um, so what process did you use Allie and starting? Cause I know that you had a ah big hand in forming the peer support group. What process did you do? What, what did, did you look at other services? Did you, um, kind of create a plan to just kind of tell us a little bit about what process you took in forming the peer support group for Bradley County?
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah. So that was definitely a process. Um, sadly, there wasn't a ton of people that had peer support. um Right. Ironically, some some of the bigger ones that I looked at was Pete.
00:17:09
Speaker
You know, his team with the fire department and um Jennifer Samples with the PD at the time. You know, they had already kind of figured out some of the some of the things with that and I just kind of took it from there.
00:17:24
Speaker
A lot of our people are, they want to be trained on everything. And right even myself, I was one of those that I don't I don't know how to do this. I can't do this. I'm not smart enough to do this. What if I mess something up?
00:17:38
Speaker
You know, so we collectively as a service, some of the upper command staff kind of, we we kind of talked about it. I got with director Lewis and said, Hey, this is something that, you know, this sounds good.
00:17:56
Speaker
How can we get it working? um I, our previous director had sent me to a specialist, It's a mental health first aider. It's a very basic, um just mental health class. It's, you can deal with the and the public with it. It's just anybody that's really kind of having suicidal ideations and how to deal with it. Like i said, it's very basic. They make different versions of it or whatever.
00:18:22
Speaker
But I went to that class and I became an instructor for that. And I thought, even if I can just give these people the basic knowledge that they have to have I can give them a certificate and it'll make them feel better because everybody can really be a mental health peer support person.
00:18:41
Speaker
If you have the empathy to do it, you're, you're not a licensed therapist. You're just given the best advice. You know how, and one of the biggest things that you can do is care somebody to care enough to say, Hey, look, you look like you're struggling. Can I talk to you? Can I, can I get you some help?
00:18:59
Speaker
That's the biggest key factor that, we know I sat through and I read all this stuff and I'm like, this is stuff i already know. This is not new things. But just giving them that little piece of paper that says, hey, you can do that.
00:19:12
Speaker
And you're equipped to do this. like We deal with suicidal people all the time in our jobs.
00:19:20
Speaker
You don't talk rude to them. You you know give them the respect. You let them be heard. You yeah know you' listen, actively listen. All of these simple things. that they already know how to do. So I wasn't teaching them really anything um other than giving them a certificate and giving them CUs.
00:19:38
Speaker
And so we sent them through the program. It was a couple hour program um just so that they could feel, you know, if they have any questions, of course, they can reach out um to anybody on the peer support team. One of the biggest things that I asked whenever, let me back up.
00:19:55
Speaker
So there was certain people that I knew that I was going to ask to see if, I could get them on a peer support team. I didn't want them to feel obligated to do this. I wanted them to come to me because i don't want somebody to feel like this is just a job. I want them to want to do it.
00:20:11
Speaker
And so i' send a message out to the entire service, you know, tell them exactly what I was doing. And if they were interested in doing it, to send me text or an email.
00:20:22
Speaker
And i had a handful of people that, I'm sorry. I hope the wind isn't bothering anything. thats fun yeah I had a handful of people that, that hit me that day, like within minutes of, Hey, I want to help.
00:20:37
Speaker
And then I had people that really wanted to think about it before. And I am perfectly okay with that because I would rather you think about it before you approach me with it. So we had probably 10 to 15 people that reached out.
00:20:50
Speaker
And so that kind of set my, my, um,
00:20:56
Speaker
I guess my starting point for it. Um, I sat down with all of them and I said, look, you know, for peer support to be successful, you're going to have to keep your mouth shut. This is not a gossip train.
00:21:08
Speaker
If people don't trust you to tell you their concerns, you know, how they're feeling, they're not going to talk to you. And so that was, that was one of my biggest things is you've got to just keep your mouth shut and not gossip with these.
00:21:23
Speaker
Um, and, thank you Give them that respect, if nothing else, even if you don't agree. Yeah, because there are some instances that people are just like, you know, I'm not fit to talk to some of these people. And that's okay.
00:21:36
Speaker
That's perfectly okay. We'll find you somebody that does fit what you need. and Because some people are just, they just vibe better for the younger generations. and Right.
00:21:48
Speaker
But so so we sat through of the class. and We still talk. You know, if they have questions, they're usually, i ask that they follow up with another person on the peer support or me or, yeah know, some of the, some of the others that have been in it a little bit longer. We have different peer supports with the city and the county and they can talk to them if they have questions and just so it stays in house and it's not floating through the service. um
00:22:20
Speaker
It's all ranks. So, Like I'm a commander, some people don't want to talk to me because I am a commander and they would much rather and feel more comfortable talking to somebody that just come in, you know, that is an EMT or, you know, they might want to talk to the police department. They might want to talk to the fire department.
00:22:39
Speaker
They have that option. And if we can't find them a good fit in our department, then we'll gladly go across. We like, we've all kind of talked and, you know, made that very aware that you may have some people reaching out to you from different departments.
00:22:53
Speaker
right Just so it's a broader ah broader spectrum and more people that can kind of fit them all a little bit better.
Challenges in Addressing Mental Health in EMS
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah. And it while you were talking a minute ago, it just, it brought to me the thought that, you know, we, we get out here and we deal with, with people that are having suicidal ideations or suicidal, uh, tendencies and, um, some real mental health crisis and, in and, and, and somewhat we're trained to deal with that. And we, we seem to handle it pretty well in the emergent moment. Um,
00:23:30
Speaker
but we've never really had to focus on our own. And looking at it from a point of view, like what happens to us when we have to treat one of our own in a medical or a trump traumatic emergency, it's difficult for us, you know, because it is some it is a brother or a sister that we're... So this is even more difficult because now we if we see some of these negative side effects of this compiled trauma, and then we have to approach a brother or sister to say...
00:24:00
Speaker
look, I'm seeing some negative side effects. That's very difficult for us. But I feel like the outcome of it outweighs that that initial, um, fear, I guess, of, of approaching them because sometimes it, it's a little bit better coming from a brother or sister, you know, it would be, you know, you're coming from a a place of love, uh, when you're, when you're speaking to him and, and because of genuine concern. And I think it opens that door for that, that rapport that you need, um,
00:24:35
Speaker
for somebody to reveal some of this very private stuff. um So that's why I think peer support is and can be so effective because there's already a pre-established relationship, a pre-established trust.
00:24:48
Speaker
You know, this is one of ours and and we can approach it from a point of love. so That was a thought that came to me, you know, that that we we deal with these people and we don't think another thought about it. You know, there are our patients out there, but when it comes to one of our own, I think that's maybe why it has been such a slow process into saying, hey, it's okay to approach them. It's okay to say something because, I mean, Allie, you've been in this business for 20 years. You've seen a lot of coworkers self-destruct from this stuff.
00:25:20
Speaker
and And they will, they'll go down the alcohol path. They'll go down the, you know, we, we talked with a ah therapist on here and like the hypersexuality. So the infidelity and marriages, the broken marriages that come from this, you know, is, can all be pointed back to some of these compiled traumas that these people are dealing with. And this is just how they're, how this stuff is coming out.
00:25:42
Speaker
It's through alcoholism, you know? And so i think it's very important that these peer support groups are phenomenal. And I think it'll cause a, yeah a huge change in our industry.
00:25:55
Speaker
um And I think and then you talk people the more people that we, you know, when the more eyes we have, the quicker we can see these patterns and early recognition is key before it spirals downhill you You know, that infidelity kicks in and, you know, versus having a bad day versus a bad week versus a bad month and years. And, you know, yeah the quicker that we can see it, the better.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah. and And now instead, I mean, like 20 years ago, we put blinders on because we would act like we didn't see this stuff. We would act like like we didn't see our fellow coworker dealing with this stuff and we would just ignore it.
00:26:34
Speaker
Now it's become much more acceptable. And now people are actually kind of on the lookout for this stuff. And it's okay to um approach that employee and say, hey, I'm, you know,
00:26:45
Speaker
You okay, ma'am? You okay? Or it's okay to go to your supervisor and say, hey, look, I've seen some real self-destructive traits coming out of this person and I'm concerned about them. It's okay to do that because the the outcome, if you don't,
00:27:00
Speaker
can be catastrophic. And we've seen that. Ali, I know you've seen that in your personal life, in your personal experiences in your field, that the the catastrophic effects of that, of of just turning a blind eye to it or or ignoring it. Not that that happened in that particular case, but you saw some some very catastrophic outcomes of of mental health and in the first responder world. So it's okay to speak up and and and you should feel a moral responsibility to speak up.
00:27:33
Speaker
um And that's what we're trying to get the culture to see is that it is okay. You know, it's not something that has to be hidden. e You're not going to get in trouble. Now I would strongly suggest approaching it in a very, you know, sensitive manner just because, yeah i mean, somebody that doesn't get along, I wouldn't tell.
00:27:54
Speaker
that person to go talk to the other person. You need to have a little bit of common sense with it all too. But yeah just, and if you're not the right fit, like there's several people that I'm not the right fit for, and I know that, but I can also use that peer support team to find somebody that is the right the right fit to talk to that person so that then if I see something, the end game is still the same.
00:28:18
Speaker
It just might not be me physically doing it. Oh, absolutely. And that's and another reason why I brought up, you know, going to your supervisor whatever, because because then they can kind of gauge the situation and provide, you know, get support, you know, and You know this as a commander because you you've already said that, you know, that sometimes there's ah there's a distrust between between subordinates and and supervisors in some aspects. so But if you have knowledge of it, Allie, then you can find the resources and maybe find somebody say, hey, this is somebody that I know that person connects with. Maybe I can send them to check up on them so and and just kind of hit it from a different angle. So it's okay to go say something. You know, and get get that person at least approached, you know, start looking at it getting them some of the resources that they need. I think it's very, very important. And I like the the stigmatism. we i like the the wearing away of the stigmatism that that we've that we're getting to.
00:29:22
Speaker
I talked talked to Zach Jaggers and, you know, he said, you know, he brought up an extremely interesting point that I guess I knew but never thought about. But, you know, these people might deal with a trauma or two in their lifetime, but witnessing a bad accident a car accident or witnessing you know some type of major trauma or something like that. they might be They might see one or two of those in their lifetime. And like Zach said, we may see four before lunch.
00:29:53
Speaker
Right. You know, and and we can't be, you know, just as we we would say, you know, I see some huge effects. Okay, Allie, you you talked about your family and the effects after your brother's accident and how that, you know, that that's that's one trauma that your family had to deal with. And you noticed, but nobody criticized for it not being handled correctly because it's expected. Hey, they they lost, you know, a family member in this tragic wreck. And so it's kind of expected, but the general public expects first responders to let this stuff roll off their back and go on to the next one.
00:30:32
Speaker
And it doesn't work that way. We're human. we put on our We put on our socks one at a time, just like everybody else, you know. And so our brain is no different than anybody else's out here. And we we have to still process these things.
00:30:47
Speaker
just at a huge volumes, you know, and yeah you said something earlier about the Bradley County's calls and things like that. When I was in that area, I know that it was just common knowledge that people don't just wreck in Bradley County.
00:31:01
Speaker
They don't just have fender benders in Bradley County.
Impact of Peer Support on Personal Life
00:31:04
Speaker
If they wreck, it's bad, you know, and, And that there has been some like historic ah traumatic events that have happened in Bradley County. It's just, it's amazing, you know, for the, for the population in the area and the culture that's there, the, the amount of, of just,
00:31:24
Speaker
critical incidences that have happened in Bradley County, it's astounding. So my heart goes out to the first responders in that area because they deal they deal with a at such a large scale of traumatic events. you know that if you think, you know if they if they run and I don't know your numbers, but if they run 500 calls a month, Bradley County has a good chance of 300 of them being bad. Right. You know, and so, you know, on a scale, you know, looking at, you know, New York City or something like that, you may not run near the call volume as that, but your your scale of major incidences is is way up there and in that in that part of Tennessee, and it's it's it's crazy. And sadly, we just look at it like it's a normal day.
00:32:14
Speaker
that's the sad part of it all is that yeah you know when i was taking that test i was like why are you asking me like is this triggering me like what's your and then once i realized what he was saying i was like oh this isn't normal and then i thought wow that's a stupid alley i guess it's not normal to see that much stuff yeah well that's that's the world you've lived in for 20 years that's all i know i don't know any difference no Right.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. um Let's talk a little bit about the changes you've seen in your service since the form of the peer support, the forming of peer support. Tell me about ah some of the positive effects you've seen that's happened because of the peer support forming in your agency.
00:32:58
Speaker
um I think people's mental health, definitely. Just our culture has gotten better. We are, our morale has gotten better. A lot of that,
00:33:10
Speaker
like Bradley Bradley was struggling there for a little while our morale was was very low and i feel like currently our morale is up um people want to come into work overall you know I mean there's always going to be those days um but but it's just more of of a better place to work um and that doesn't just include EMS you know I've had firefighters come up to me and
00:33:41
Speaker
They're not scared to say, hey, I went to therapy. You know, in the middle of a call, they're like, hey, Allie, I just wanted to say thank you. I went and saw, you know, whoever, and I'm feeling a little bit better now. I appreciate that. In the middle of a call.
00:33:55
Speaker
ae If they're that open to talk to me when there's others around, when there's a patient sitting on the stretcher, that's made a positive impact on their life.
00:34:06
Speaker
And I've had that numerous times. That's not once or twice, you know, a handful of times. That's over and over again. I'm hearing these people talk about how better, you know, their marriages are and there their ability to do whatever it is other than identifying as EMS, you know, PD, fire, whatever you want insert your first responder role.
00:34:31
Speaker
They are identifying themselves as other people. than just that first responder. And that's a huge, I mean, whether people realize theres that or not, that is a huge impact because we are people and I'm a mother, I'm a Christian, I am a wife, I am all these other things.
00:34:49
Speaker
And for so long, I only identified as a first responder and that could be taken away at any point. You know, you're one call away from an injury that you're no longer a first responder.
00:35:02
Speaker
And And that could shut your life down completely or that could give you room to do something else. And I say all of that to say that people are realizing this and it's because they're getting the help. You know, they're finding coping mechanisms.
00:35:18
Speaker
They're finding out that their life has more value than just being a first responder and they can do hard things and they can get through each day and they can become better as a whole, not just as a first responder.
00:35:31
Speaker
right I do think that it's, it's gotten way better. um I think we offer better resources for them to be able, you know, to equip these people with the stuff that they do see so they don't take great they it home. And that's still improving. There's still some some new things coming for Bradley County and I can't wait to see, you know, how it progresses and and all of the things. And I hope that more people get interested in it and I'm just a blimp on the screen for all the people that are coming in and taking it over. And it's not about me. It's about making sure that the people, you know, get taken care of. And I don't care who does it. If somebody would love to join in, I'm all about all the help and all the things.
00:36:16
Speaker
Because you can never have enough people caring about our first responders. Yeah, that no doubt. I completely agree with you. Allie, tell me how being involved in the peer support has affected you personally. Because I know you're married to a first responder or retired first responder. um So not only do you, you've got...
00:36:40
Speaker
your per you you know your personal job that you work as a commander in the EMS service. You've got a spouse that is in emergency services. And then you then on top of that, you've got your personal stressors of whatever happens in your personal life.
00:36:59
Speaker
But tell me how this has affected your personal life in in the way that maybe that you deal with your stress and your traumas and the things that come to you. Yeah. So like I said earlier, I'm going to fall back to my kid before I call fall back to my husband.
00:37:15
Speaker
He is very self-aware. And I talk to my family about just being open. Now, I don't give them the full version of it sometimes. and My husband probably gets a little bit more of that just because he's in he knows that my children are small. And I can give them little snippets and they know mom's not having a good day. Let me do something. You know my youngest one will bring me. dandelions, you know, just little things like that to kind of help.
00:37:41
Speaker
But I know that sometimes I need to come home and I need to reset. I've learned that on the bad days, it's okay to have a bad day. I can, I can use my positive coping mechanisms, come home, not talk to anybody for a few minutes.
00:37:55
Speaker
Um, go take a shower, you know, get the uniform off. One of the first things that I do when I get home is take the uniform off yeah because the longer I keep this uniform on, I'm still in work mode. Um, so, and plus, you know, the germs and stuff, but I just, I don't want that around anything, but, um, just, it's, it's just a different mentality. It's a different hat. I can take that hat off, set it to the side as much as I possibly can. and Now I get, you know, I am a supervisor, so I get phone calls a lot of the day, even if I work nights.
00:38:29
Speaker
Um, but I've really, but I've learned to balance myself with that. Um, As a new commander, I didn't do that well. And it was, it was a struggle for me.
00:38:40
Speaker
um Right. But just learning the different coping mechanisms, you know, what I'm teaching everybody else, I have to say, okay, Ali, you need to take some of your own advice, turn your phone off.
00:38:50
Speaker
You know, um I just, with my husband, bless his soul. He is a very good man. He puts up with a lot of irritability and my frustrations and, but he's,
00:39:05
Speaker
He's also the one that gives me very sound advice. um he He helps. He can listen to me and he'll be like, do you want an answer to this problem or do you want me to just listen? That's one of the biggest things. Communication is key.
00:39:18
Speaker
And I would say that with yeah any person, whether it's any kind of relationship you have. But it's definitely affected my personal life, just in all aspects. You know, how I deal with people at church, whether it's, you know, trying to help them, um, just listening to my own advice sometimes.
00:39:40
Speaker
And then right listening to the advice that other peer support gives me, because sometimes their answers are way better than anything I can think of. Um, just getting sound advice from somebody that I know has my best intentions at heart and is willing to actually, like my husband blesses, bless his heart. He will actually,
00:40:02
Speaker
Tell me stuff I don't like. Allie, why are you acting like this? you know and And I get not that's not it for everybody because I am a very strong-willed woman. And sometimes he gets his head bit off. um But he approaches it and the in a very good manner that you know we can communicate. And I can realize, hey, I need a break. Or you know what's affecting this? What's causing you to act like this?
00:40:28
Speaker
Just figuring out the why behind some of this stuff. is a huge, a huge key for me. Um, that's just how I, how I deal with stress. Now, physically, I think it's gotten a lot better. My sleep is very non-existent these days, most of the time. Um, so prioritizing my sleep because I know that that's it. That's a factor for me.
00:40:51
Speaker
Um, yeah and just owning, owning what I have issues with. That's one of the biggest things anybody can do is owning their mistakes and owning, Their inefficiencies, what you know I'm notm not really sure the word I'm looking for there, but um i don't want to say they're false because that's not really it's not really a fault. It's just something that you're not as as good with dealing with.
00:41:17
Speaker
um Their shortcomings. Weaknesses, maybe. yeah Yeah, that's maybe a better word. I don't want to make it sound like it's derogatory. But just learning to deal with that on a daily basis. And again, sometimes I get it right and most times I get it wrong.
00:41:30
Speaker
Um, yeah just the fact that we keep trying, you know, every day as a commander, as a mom, as a wife, as ah peer person at a church, you know, whatever you want to insert that as, is your as as you're going to, your relationships with friends, just knowing that we're all human and we all can try to be better.
00:41:53
Speaker
You think it's made a difference in your marriage? Oh, ah hundred percent. Um, that's good. Brett and I went through a really, really rough patch and i won't go into all the details of that, but right we are stronger than ever now. And a lot of that has to do with God. Um, one of, you know, one of the ways that I personally deal with, with things is that I take it to God. Um, I gave him all the glory for everything that I've, I've been able to do because he's empowered me to do all that.
00:42:23
Speaker
And, right and I think that, putting him first in our marriage, just in my life in general, has created so many blessings. and And Brett being one of those biggest blessings, you know, we were we were headed for divorce. And now I can say that we could probably get through anything. um That's great. We communicate. We're just, are very much thriving in this season life that we're in.
00:42:54
Speaker
And that's got a lot of different factors, so. I bring this up in every podcast and people are probably going to get tired of hearing about it, but I've got a friend of mine that is ah a therapist and former and NYPD officer. She was on the second episode of the the podcast, but she always, when her and I first met and and we're discussing some of this stuff, she uses an an ah an analogy like a that that we're almost kind of like minions. We have a singular thing
00:43:27
Speaker
lens that we look through. And as we collect these traumas at work, it's like throwing mud on them or or scratching the glass or or cracking it or throwing some dirt up there or, you know, spitting on it or whatever. But as as as those traumas collect, your field of vision gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and your outlook on life. And then if you have a spouse and there's trouble, there's stress at home or everything, their vision becomes smaller and smaller. So, you know, of course, yours gets smaller even more because of the stress at home. So now you started with a lens this big. Now you're looking through a hole this big and your your spouse is looking through a hole this big. It's hard to get those to line up where you can see each other clearly and and get a good clear picture on each other.
00:44:16
Speaker
And um we have to stop and we have to clean that glass and we have to try to get a little better look at life and a a but little better look at our spouse and, you know, so that we can see a good clear picture. And so for you, you found that that God has become a a tremendous glass cleaner and allowed you to to to see things a whole lot clearer, you know, and So I encourage everyone to try to find something to clear that glass so that they can look at life through a whole lot clearer glass and a whole lot better vision. And i I love that analogy. I'll probably share it every episode. I don't care. I'm probably going to use that. That was a very good analogy.
00:45:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's from my friend Christine. And y'all go back and watch the second episode and and you'll you'll get she has a lot of great insight and and she's just an incredible person.
Off-Duty Activities and Camaraderie
00:45:13
Speaker
But... So um talk to me a little bit about, I've noticed, you know, through social media and things like that, that you do a lot of like off-duty activities with your peer support group.
00:45:27
Speaker
Talk to me about your intention behind that, what benefit that provides and and what your intent is but with those off-duty activities. Yeah. um mean Because, um you know, i see things like y'all go bowling, you go out to eat, you do cookouts, you know, things like that with the peer support. and Well, not just peer support, but all the employees, but it's kind of put together by peer support.
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah. um So sadly, I would like to say we've had one super recent, but we haven't because it's been busy. Like it was getting to the point that I was sure I was super stressed out because I was trying to put on so many at the same time.
00:46:05
Speaker
that I had to kind of take a break for just a little bit, but we've been talking about, you know, that it's, it's getting that spring summertime, um, when the cookouts can start. And, you know, one of the one of the biggest ones we had was a pool party, um, which that one, we had a lot of people come, but we it could have been a lot better, but I think a lot of people were nervous to see each other in a bathing suit.
00:46:29
Speaker
I get that. Um, because it was the entire Bradley County, um, wasn't just like a specific department, but we started doing group events just to get, i mean, you know, we all work alongside each other in the field.
00:46:45
Speaker
And I felt like the only way to really, like the only time we see each other is when we're on calls. And if we can get that when we weren't on calls and, you know, you can get all these people from the different departments, the camaraderie would be better.
00:47:00
Speaker
Um, everybody likes a good, good, um, game to get the who's going to win and who isn't going to win. um Just to say that they've got bragging rights. The chili cook-off did.
00:47:15
Speaker
Bless him. The chili cook-off is still a very good camaraderie between us all. A can dog food goes a long way.
00:47:29
Speaker
You have to ask Pete about that. and I will. Just little events like that. You know, it doesn't have to be anything spectacular. um Some of the days at the park, we had hot dogs and we did little kind of like, you know, back when you were in elementary school and you did the, um oh, what was that called? The day where you go out and the playground. make Yeah. Field day. Thank you. and those those little activities where you run them with an egg on a spoon and see who can run the fastest, you know, all just the little things. One, it's getting some kind of physical activity to it's getting us outside three is bringing this around. I mean, the pros to this are endless.
00:48:13
Speaker
Um, it's getting us all together. It's letting us know each other personally, not just as the identifier as a first responder. Um, it's letting us have more sincere conversations, um, you know, bringing out stuff that probably wouldn't be brought out on a scene because we're there for whatever, you know, that emergency is.
00:48:33
Speaker
Um, so it was just a way to get people together and get to know each other. Um, I think that they've all been decently successful, even if the weather was, you know, not permitting on a couple of them, um,
00:48:49
Speaker
but just getting more people out and doing things. Sometimes we like to call ourselves hermits and not go out at me. I'm calling myself out. um I like to stay at home and sit with my weenie dogs and not be around the public sometimes.
00:49:05
Speaker
And that's okay. I know that there's a spot and a place for that, but it also helps me to get out and be around people, and to push myself to be around people. And- I've never left one of them thinking, man, that that really stunk.
00:49:22
Speaker
It's always, oh, I learned about this person or that, you know, this cop was really nice. I didn't know anything about them, you know, or just some of the crazy antics that we do whenever we have free time on our hands and, you know, goofing off and laughing. And laughing is one of the biggest things that that I really try hard to to incorporate with this because we don't laugh enough. As first responders, we're always very serious.
00:49:48
Speaker
um We're expected to do all these things very hard and very quickly. And we've become really, really efficient at it. But sometimes I feel like it takes our fun and our joy away because we're always so worried about the next thing and dealing with the next thing.
00:50:02
Speaker
So just giving us time and space to to hang out and have a good time. um It can go a long way with helping everybody's mental health. So I think you might've sparked, I'm going to to get another one together.
00:50:16
Speaker
I think also that it creates a link um between employees that may provide a little bit of comfortability when things do go sideways for them to reach out.
00:50:29
Speaker
a I've said it time and time again, it would be a whole lot easier for me to reach out to my friend Allie than it would be for me to reach out to to Commander Taylor. right know So it it it provides that personal link and some comfortability and and and bringing down some of those walls, I think. is and that's that's extremely important, that camaraderie, just like you said. and the the fact that you're doing it the interagency is is phenomenal because then you you get the different fire departments and the law enforcement in the area involved. And it provides even a bigger network of of availability for eyes out there and availability for somebody to reach out to. That's that's tremendous. Sure. And that's, yeah I like that. There's been walls between the different services for so long that it's breaking down those walls. You know, one minor discrepancy that as happened on scene
00:51:30
Speaker
can spiral into something huge, but it's little things like that that that breaks that and, you know, takes it completely away. Yeah.
00:51:41
Speaker
That's a great point because there has been there has been a
00:51:49
Speaker
ego issue between law enforcement and fire service and EMS there, not in just your county, but probably across the nation. And it falls back to ego, you know, who's controlling the scene or who's in charge. And there's, you know, all that stuff. But that stuff all needs to be set aside when it comes to looking out for our brothers and and and
Vision for the Future of EMS Mental Health
00:52:15
Speaker
sisters. my you know I don't care what uniform you wear. If you don't a uniform, you're my brother and sister. And and so I feel ah a big responsibility to to help look out for your welfare. And so this, the interagency activities and everything, I think helps wear away at that little bit of ego, other than the running an egg on a spoon, you know, that that part's okay. so
00:52:44
Speaker
But, so... we're we're We're getting close to to wrapping things up, but let me let me ask you, what are what are your future visions for the peer support and in your agency and in interagency out there you know with dealing with other agencies? Where would you like to see this go, let's say, over the next five years, 10 years? What are some of your goals or your visions for the peer support?
00:53:13
Speaker
um I would love for just debriefs to be mandatory right now that is not one of the things that we offer them um we could offer a debrief almost every single day to be honest um right you try to you know take in the crew did it bother almost you know check in on them the repetitive check-ins um just to see if they're needed but just to have those mandatory would be a huge success um and it doesn't have to be Something like it could be a peer support, you know, just, Hey, let's sit down and talk about this. um
00:53:50
Speaker
Something to kind of, so people don't fall through the cracks. That's, that's one of the biggest things is um it's so easily done is people falling through the cracks and I don't want one person is too many.
00:54:03
Speaker
um Absolutely. I've, I've said that for a while now, one person is too many. So just, just getting that, um, just making it bigger and better. I know everybody's like, I'll chase the bigger, better, but the bigger and the better of peer support, there is no con to that.
00:54:24
Speaker
Um, getting more people involved, getting it more talked about, you know, making it not so just getting that stigma to go away.
00:54:35
Speaker
Um, that would, that's my, that's my goal was the stigma. Um, Hey, you know, We do a lot of really, really hard things, and you've got the support and the resources to back you up, um not only for today but for tomorrow,
00:54:51
Speaker
and to to help kind of not really fix but guide and steer the rest of your life so that this could be a career. You know, most people don't look at EMS as career jobs these days. Right.
00:55:09
Speaker
Right. And I don't really know where that changed a lot because for me, whenever I first got in, like um I'm 20 years, it is a career for me. um But a lot of people don't look at it like that. And I could see why whenever they get burned out and they're so traumatized by everything that they see that they they physically can't make it a career.
00:55:31
Speaker
And I think that we need to support them in any means, you know, whether it's the therapy, whether it's the EMDR, you know, the micro neurofeedback, there's all these things.
00:55:43
Speaker
So the the possibilities are endless with how this could grow and get better. And I know that takes a lot of funding and grants and a lot of work, um but I think it can be done.
00:55:57
Speaker
yeah So, I mean, just, just seeing it, I mean, emergencies are never going to go away. Somebody is always going to have a bad day. We're always going to be needed. That's one of those,
00:56:07
Speaker
those things, but helping our employees deal with it in the best way possible is is my end game with that. um Yeah, absolutely. um I wanted to share with you, Allie, the department that I'm at is is a large department, and it was my first exposure peer support.
00:56:29
Speaker
and But when I came on and went through the academy, When I came out of the academy and started into my FTO portion, I got a phone call that said, the guy said, hey, I'm so-and-so, I'm your your peer support contact. And i started to learn about it then. and And so they assign a peer support contact to each employee when they come on board. So, our our peer support people, they may have eight or ten people that they're responsible for. That doesn't mean that that that you know that you have to reach out only to that person, but you've got somebody that that keeps a check on them. And so...
00:57:15
Speaker
And that person is on my shift. I have quite a bit of contact with them throughout the day, seeing them at the hospitals and, you know, things like that. So so they see me. And then periodically, probably once every couple of months, he just calls and says, hey, man, how you doing? how You know, how's everything going? Just checking in. Do you need anything? You know. And then I was was sharing with my brother, too. it it just This is a new concept to me, very new, this the peer support. and
00:57:46
Speaker
But I had a very difficult call the other day. and And then we were really, really busy after that call. We had several calls. So when I got off shift and I was headed home, my phone rang and I looked down and it was one of my chiefs. And thought, what the world is he calling me? And he was like, hey, heard you had a difficult call today. I'm just calling to check on you.
00:58:06
Speaker
You know, are you doing okay? And that blew me away. I'd never had that before. You know, never had, you know, somebody that that cared whether that call affected me or not, you know. And so I love seeing that come away, that stigmatism that that you have to bear this stuff without effect because it's impossible.
00:58:31
Speaker
It affects us in some way or another. You know, you talked about being a snappy mom, and that was one of the biggest things. indicators to me that something was wrong is is my children said, why are you so angry all the time, dad? Why why are you so mad? you know Don't be quiet around dad. You'll make him mad. you know And I thought,
00:58:55
Speaker
My own kids have to tiptoe around me. and that hurt. yeah That hurt bad. You know, i don't want to treat my kids like that. They are my life, you know, and and for for them to to to have that.
00:59:12
Speaker
feeling that they can't even approach dad was heartbreaking for me. And I was like, I've got to do something different. I've got to change this. And then that's when I started to seek some help and, and, uh, and get through it. And Christine played a instrumental role in that. uh, good for you that, that takes a lot and if you need to hear that good for you for taking that step.
00:59:38
Speaker
Thank you. And I tell you, um it's made a huge difference in my life. It's refocused me. It's cleaned my glass. yeah And it's allowed me to to move forward and to deal with this stuff in a positive manner. to And and i I tell people all the time, this podcast is therapy for me. Being able to talk about this stuff and release this stuff and to find creative ways and hear people's insights and their stories and things. It's therapy for me because it it helps my soul and in what we deal with.
01:00:11
Speaker
And because these these tragedies that happen out there every day, we run straight headlong into them. And a lot of times we don't think about how they might affect us afterwards or even think that they do affect us afterwards, but they do. And sometimes people see it before we do.
01:00:28
Speaker
That was a meme I saw on Facebook the other day. It's like it's looking in the back of an ambulance that's destroyed and it says, why is this okay? And it doesn't bother me, but going to the grocery store stresses me out and overstimulates me. And I thought, that hits harder than...
01:00:47
Speaker
We know how to deal with one thing, but some of the other stuff, it's a work in progress. Very much so. Yep. Well, Allie, thank you so much for coming on today and providing the insight that you have and letting us just get a peek into your day
Closing Remarks and Appreciation
01:01:04
Speaker
today. We thank you so much for all ah for all the input that you've given us. It's tremendous. A lot of great information here.
01:01:13
Speaker
So um I just want to say thank you so much. I i appreciate you coming on with us. I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful week. Stay safe out there, Allie. Is there anything you want to add before we before we jump off?
01:01:26
Speaker
I just wanted to say thank you for asking. um Again, this was a little bit difficult for me to do, but I'm glad. You did great. I'm glad that I did it, and I appreciate all the work that you're doing. I know you say this is therapy for you, but this is helping a lot of people, and not many people are willing to jump out there and do it themselves, so.
01:01:46
Speaker
I look forward to hearing many more podcasts. I've got some, I don't do podcasts very well, but I've started listening to yours and I've actually enjoyed them. oh say oh I will so and you continue listening. If I can help in any way, just let me know.
01:02:00
Speaker
I appreciate it. Thank you again, Allie. You guys stay safe out there. If you need any support of any kind, any kind reach out to your peer support in in your own employment. If you don't have one, look up my email, shoot me an email. I've got resources I'll be happy to put you in contact with. We need you well, we need you safe, and we need you functional in your communities do too. You guys, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm Josh Van Dusen. This is Under the Helmet.